Hello, very appreciate your time invested in your video series! As you said, the cleaning regime depends.... Here in the Austrian Alps foxhunting is mostly done in the winter months where thetemperature can be as low as -20°C. If i do not clean and oil (very light layer of clp) after only 1 shot, the barrel will rust due to condensation when you take the cold gun inside a warm room or car etc.. after a hunt. A surpressor will make the corrosion problem worse, when not remooved from the barrel and dryed out.
The Mirage Effect of Mounting The Scope Is Something I’ve Never Experienced But I Never Thought About That as a Factor Thanks Mark Excellent Advice and Facts 😲😀😊👍🏼
Great video Mark. I agree 100%. we've all had that rifle that you can almost abuse and it never shoots bad. We've also had that rifle that is very finicky and needs constant cleaning. I've even seen this translate into brass longevity. I have a few rifles that are running stout loads and the brass is like new after many reloads. It also seems that the rifles that need a lot of attention are hard on brass, even though comparatively they are not running as hard as others. At the end of the day, these are man made and everyone will be different.
I've been working in specialty alloys for 15+ years now & this video got me wanting to get into gunsmithing so I can experiment with different barrel materials. Most seem to use 4140, which is a very basic high tensile alloy, mostly used for shafts/pins, it's cheap & abundant. Some of the toolsteels are designed to be stable & not move/warp/expand at high temps. A hot work steel like H13/W302 would be quite happy at 300c all day. Could potentially use a barrel half as thick/heavy and get the same results.
From what I've been told and read is that... As long as a barrel is heat treated right, stress relieved right, and if your barrel is broken in right (if you subscribe to barrel break ins) your groups can open up slightly and from what I've seen with my rifles is it's not going to be very much. Great video as always keepem coming brother!!!
I do more airgunning than anything these days. The distances aren't as far, but everything still applies, except barrel heat. I always learn something from watching this channel. At 42 I'm never too old to learn something new. Thank you for sharing the gold mine of info and data that you do. Cheers from the mountains of Tennessee.
Another great video, Mark. You have raised some excellent points. I've never been big on meticulous barrel cleaning. I see guys meticulously scrub and scrub to get their patches not to turn green. When all along you want that copper. Carbon is the barrel killer which is hydroscopic and will draw moisture to attack your bore. I clean to remove that. But this video has made some really good points that I will adopt as more serious considerations. Thank you very much! I love videos like these 😀
Thank you for sharing your thought process with us, it makes sense to me. I too, like others have been cleaning the same as you, it's working great so far......4 yrs running!
That’s a clear ramble so keep it up. I like your cleaning philosophy, I have a Tikka .270 hunting rifle that is 30+ years old still half MOA . Always shoots the first round after cleaning high and right, then settles in again.
Great video!! Fastest 29 minute video I've watched for quite some time. Had an issue with my .270 Win some years ago. It went from tack driving to erratic very quickly. Found out later that my hand-loader buddy had run out of my preferred powder mid-batch and used another brand that was supposed to be "just like" it. He doesn't load for me anymore.
The cleaning topic will always be controversial and difficult to organize or standardize due to all the differences in shooting contexts. Your remarks on the damage from heat and shooting tempo are important. The properties that make most common barrel steels useful include hot hardness. Many steels begin to rapidly loose their hardness as low as 400 C. It is not difficult to understand that machine guns can easily wear out a barrel but it takes hobbyists and shooters a while to wrap their heads around these concepts with their sporting bolt guns. Wearing out a bolt action barrel prematurely with rapid fire strings because the surfaces near the throat hit these temperatures is common. Unless your rules or competitions require long rapid fire strings, it is good advice to avoid them. Nice talk Mark.
Great info! My take away from this is, don't stress about thermal management and barrel cleaning unless you're shooting a rail gun. Keep it simple and stop compounding problems.
If you haven’t seen Eric Cortina’s tuning break, check it out. You can (on the fly) tune barrel harmonics to a load v/s only tweaking loads to the barrel. You optimize to any given load. If you have a chance to check it out, would love your take.
Ah the magic cure all... yes see them, not a new idea and not planning to use them or any other tuners, as said in a few videos, not how I do things, Cheers
Very good Mark. Also note that barrel manufacturers have their own recommended break-in procedure to follow, particularly if your worried about any warranty they may provide.
I have a small wildcat, a 7.62x40WT (essentially a modified 223 case that has been necked up to 30 cal) that after 5800 rounds is still a sub moa rifle.... It was never formally "broken in". Just took it out and shot it, and still do. Don't clean it much either probably after 3-400 rounds sometimes more. And this is a direct impingement gas gun, not known for staying clean. Simply put, it just shoots.
I still don't have the time for reloading. I found my X-Bolt 243 is perfectly shooting with 100 grs S&B Soft points. Same with my A-Bolt 222 with 50 grs Fmj Hp Fiocchi. Never change a good team... 👌🏻 🖖🏻🇫🇷😎🇫🇷😎🇫🇷🖖🏻
Very good video I love watching you and Sam shoot And you're extremely knowledgeable on all of the of the basics and fundamentals of everything going on with a rifle If myself I shoot banterest competition but I keep my loads moderate enough not to burn out my barrels Once again thank you for your awesome videos
I needed to hear this... Figure out what works decent and then shoot the damn thing. However, the virus and associated shortages have forced me to resort to new and different powders and bullets. So lately it seems I'm constantly forced to develop new loads based on what is available when I go to town. Hope all is well with you and Sam.
I agree with you. With chrome-moly steel barrels I also clean if I feel there is a risk of corrosion. I also think that the first bullet(s) shot in a 100% clean barrel will produce flyers (different velocities and friction vs a fouled barrel)
@@br4713 spot on mate.... i think its awesome you make some of the shots at elr distance without really doing a load workup.. do you think maybe it would get you on target faster if you did? just curious what you think. i havent had much luck without doing it. sometimes id get lucky and get a good result but i found if i really want to keep the es down i have to at least do a powder charge test even if i skip the seating depth test..
@@tjarmand I make some load developments too. First I look for my max powder charge, so I know what is the load I can use safely (a bit lower than this max to be able to use it at higher temperature). Then I get the accurracy by adjusting the seating depth.
Maybe I'm wrong, but we'ren a barrel heats up. There should be less pressure because it expands not not contracts. That would mean less pressure on the board. Not more, do you see this this way? Or am I seeing something wrong?Please comment
One huge myth floating around gun land is that carbon fiber 22 barrels don't get hot. In reality they get hotter than hades because the heat can't reach the surface.
Reminds me of motorcycle exhaust mufflers in the aftermarket. The carbon canister sure works well preventing scorching heat from the surface. Same thing for gun barrels. I'd say it's an insulator.
Hi Mark Good job on all the videos and info you give it's very helpful. I really enjoyed the last 22 magnum video you made shooting all the tins of fizzy enemies🤣 it was something different from the normal shooting. I have a question I'm hoping you could tell me what you would have gone for. I've just got a 50BMG with a 1:15 twist and 33" barrel, the bullets I want to load is Peregrine and it comes in 750gr (61.19mm long) 850gr (63.70mm) and a 870gr but I don't know it's length. They are all solid copper, which weight would you recommend out of those 3 for ranges going from 1000m - 3200m that could do it all? I live 1200m above see level. Stay safe cheers
Thanks Man, you would test, as always lots more to it than you might think, but not sure you have the twist to run the heavies, FYI if looking for more info than on the channel, consider becoming a 4AW member, there is a little more we can offer for team members, Cheers
Thanks for the great info Mark , Mate I’ve got to the point with my F class set up has gone off the boil and it’s time to replace the barrel , the action is an old Omark 44 in .308 win , I had a conversation with my gunsmith and he has recommended a True flight s/s bull barrel I have had nothing to do with this make and wondering what you think if you have anything to do with them or what you would recommend as a replacement for this set up . Thanks Steve .
What's your opinion on the .17 WSM round? I'm buying one of the new generation of the Savage Bmags in a Boyd's stock, and a heavy fluted barrel. I'm coming from a Ruger American .17 HMR that shoots ragged holes at 100m and cheap ammo, but wanted the extra range and wind deflection the WSM has to offer, without going to a centerfire and having to hand load to keep costs down as varmint ammo is 2 or 3 bucks a pop. Is the WSM too much for the projectiles to be accurate? There's more negatives online regarding accuracy than positives... hopefully stemming from the poor quality sporter Bmags.
I have a 17 hornet, which has even more powder capacity, and it is accurate. I dont't think the velocities can be an issue. I think you should consider a very important aspect since it uses factory ammunition : the ammo availability in your country. The .17 of my dreams would be the 17 Fireball
I have a B-Mag 17WSM with heavy barrel and Boyd’s Adjustable stock. Tack driver and extremely accurate! Keep in mind that some online can’t shoot for sh1$!
I only use factory rounds of Hornady 55g. I find that it suits my 223 Tikka t3 lite. The laws are strict in Ireland so haven't heard many people loading.
Here is a barrel one for you, with the new 6.8 western, Browning makes all there 6.8 western rifle barrels 26" and Winchester makes all there 6.8 western rifles barrels in 24" why ???
Well, another sales venture, short to suit the hunter, really just to try and sell rifles and ammo that you don't already have, give it a few years and see if it has worked or just another swing and a miss, lol, Cheers
I hope you make a butt load of coin. You sponsor no one an are one the most knowledgeable people on the internet. Any company you may spay out out of random should be paying you. If not payed by the government.
Thank you Mark, very good information ive taken to heart. I just got a new tikka barrel and was thinking of "breaking" it in. Will try taking it very slow and ensure the bore is very cool the first shots and break in portion of getting this barrel shooting well.
Mark I will listen to you ramble anytime you feel like rambling. Thanks so much.
Thanks Kev, cheers
@@markandsamafterwork One man's rambling is another man's wisdom.
Especially with a pint of beer.
Pro tip: you can watch movies on Kaldrostream. Been using it for watching all kinds of movies lately.
@Ryder Thatcher yup, been watching on Kaldrostream for months myself =)
That was a very good talk on barrels etc , a lot of very helpful information , thanks Mark 👍
Cheers Shane, thanks
Hello, very appreciate your time invested in your video series! As you said, the cleaning regime depends.... Here in the Austrian Alps foxhunting is mostly done in the winter months where thetemperature can be as low as -20°C. If i do not clean and oil (very light layer of clp) after only 1 shot, the barrel will rust due to condensation when you take the cold gun inside a warm room or car etc.. after a hunt. A surpressor will make the corrosion problem worse, when not remooved from the barrel and dryed out.
Yes, and I would only use stainless barrels in your neck of the woods, but would still be very important keep a light oil coating there, Cheers
The Mirage Effect of Mounting The Scope Is Something I’ve Never Experienced But I Never Thought About That as a Factor Thanks Mark Excellent Advice and Facts 😲😀😊👍🏼
Cheers Chris, thanks
Thanks Mark, common sense as always. Love your work Mate.
Cheers
Great video Mark. I agree 100%. we've all had that rifle that you can almost abuse and it never shoots bad. We've also had that rifle that is very finicky and needs constant cleaning. I've even seen this translate into brass longevity. I have a few rifles that are running stout loads and the brass is like new after many reloads. It also seems that the rifles that need a lot of attention are hard on brass, even though comparatively they are not running as hard as others. At the end of the day, these are man made and everyone will be different.
Yep, glad you liked, Cheers
I've been working in specialty alloys for 15+ years now & this video got me wanting to get into gunsmithing so I can experiment with different barrel materials. Most seem to use 4140, which is a very basic high tensile alloy, mostly used for shafts/pins, it's cheap & abundant. Some of the toolsteels are designed to be stable & not move/warp/expand at high temps. A hot work steel like H13/W302 would be quite happy at 300c all day.
Could potentially use a barrel half as thick/heavy and get the same results.
Cheers
From what I've been told and read is that... As long as a barrel is heat treated right, stress relieved right, and if your barrel is broken in right (if you subscribe to barrel break ins) your groups can open up slightly and from what I've seen with my rifles is it's not going to be very much. Great video as always keepem coming brother!!!
Cheers
I do more airgunning than anything these days. The distances aren't as far, but everything still applies, except barrel heat. I always learn something from watching this channel. At 42 I'm never too old to learn something new. Thank you for sharing the gold mine of info and data that you do. Cheers from the mountains of Tennessee.
Cheers Josh, thanks
Another great video, Mark. You have raised some excellent points. I've never been big on meticulous barrel cleaning. I see guys meticulously scrub and scrub to get their patches not to turn green. When all along you want that copper. Carbon is the barrel killer which is hydroscopic and will draw moisture to attack your bore. I clean to remove that. But this video has made some really good points that I will adopt as more serious considerations. Thank you very much! I love videos like these 😀
Thanks Jeff, cheers man, all the best.
Thank you for sharing your thought process with us, it makes sense to me. I too, like others have been cleaning the same as you, it's working great so far......4 yrs running!
Good to hear. Glad you like. Cheers
That’s a clear ramble so keep it up. I like your cleaning philosophy, I have a Tikka .270 hunting rifle that is 30+ years old still half MOA . Always shoots the first round after cleaning high and right, then settles in again.
Cheers
Great info on barrels. Much appreciated and very helpful.
Thanks Slats
I learnt so much, so quick. Very easy to understand....and more. Thanks 👍😊
Thanks Man, Cheers
Very informative!
Cheers
Great video!! Fastest 29 minute video I've watched for quite some time. Had an issue with my .270 Win some years ago. It went from tack driving to erratic very quickly. Found out later that my hand-loader buddy had run out of my preferred powder mid-batch and used another brand that was supposed to be "just like" it. He doesn't load for me anymore.
That would caused some hair loss, lol, glad you liked the video, Cheers
Excellent discussion 👏 👏👍👍
I use your method of break in and cleaning since I've learned it....no issues thus far.
Cheers Man, great to hear, thanks
The cleaning topic will always be controversial and difficult to organize or standardize due to all the differences in shooting contexts. Your remarks on the damage from heat and shooting tempo are important. The properties that make most common barrel steels useful include hot hardness. Many steels begin to rapidly loose their hardness as low as 400 C. It is not difficult to understand that machine guns can easily wear out a barrel but it takes hobbyists and shooters a while to wrap their heads around these concepts with their sporting bolt guns. Wearing out a bolt action barrel prematurely with rapid fire strings because the surfaces near the throat hit these temperatures is common. Unless your rules or competitions require long rapid fire strings, it is good advice to avoid them. Nice talk Mark.
Cheers
If it aint broke dont fix it . Now that is spot on .Once the rifles shooting good dont screw around with it ,makes sense to me .
Yep, glad you liked. Cheers
Great info! My take away from this is, don't stress about thermal management and barrel cleaning unless you're shooting a rail gun. Keep it simple and stop compounding problems.
Or, do what you need, and not what you don't need. Cheers
Thank You Mark, for a good alternative explaination, on this subject. JB
Thanks John, Cheers
If you haven’t seen Eric Cortina’s tuning break, check it out. You can (on the fly) tune barrel harmonics to a load v/s only tweaking loads to the barrel. You optimize to any given load. If you have a chance to check it out, would love your take.
Ah the magic cure all... yes see them, not a new idea and not planning to use them or any other tuners, as said in a few videos, not how I do things, Cheers
Very good Mark. Also note that barrel manufacturers have their own recommended break-in procedure to follow, particularly if your worried about any warranty they may provide.
Yep, Cheers
How would a barrel manufacturer know how you did the break in procedure?
Great notes as usual, Mark. You always give me something new to think about.
Thanks Kyle, glad you liked man, cheers and all the best.
I have a small wildcat, a 7.62x40WT (essentially a modified 223 case that has been necked up to 30 cal) that after 5800 rounds is still a sub moa rifle.... It was never formally "broken in". Just took it out and shot it, and still do. Don't clean it much either probably after 3-400 rounds sometimes more. And this is a direct impingement gas gun, not known for staying clean. Simply put, it just shoots.
Cheers
Hello Sam! This comment is to boost my digital buddy, Al Go-Rhythm!
Thank you Steve, Cheers
I still don't have the time for reloading. I found my X-Bolt 243 is perfectly shooting with 100 grs S&B Soft points.
Same with my A-Bolt 222 with 50 grs Fmj Hp Fiocchi. Never change a good team... 👌🏻
🖖🏻🇫🇷😎🇫🇷😎🇫🇷🖖🏻
Cheers
Good one. M14 308. 10 rds good then they start to string out lower right 8”. The barrel must heat up and start to warp after 10 rds
Cheers
Very good video I love watching you and Sam shoot And you're extremely knowledgeable on all of the of the basics and fundamentals of everything going on with a rifle If myself I shoot banterest competition but I keep my loads moderate enough not to burn out my barrels Once again thank you for your awesome videos
Thanks Matt, Cheers
Great info. Thanks Mark and Sam.
Cheers
More great info. Mirrors my own thaught on the topic.
Thanks
Cheers John, thanks
Thanks Mark, I appreciate your opinion.
Cheers
Thanks Mark much appreciated
Cheers
Great information as usual mate love watching your videos 👍👍👍
Thanks Trev, Cheers
Any advice that limits the amount of cleaning is welcome to the ears of someone who hates the cleaning process! 😉
Lol, Cheers
I’d like to know your thoughts on carbon fiber barrels. Thanks for all the information man your the best.
If and when I test them I will do a video...Cheers
1 shot clean 2 shot clean 3 shot clean 4 shot clean 5 shot clean 5 shot clean. Thats what i do for break in.
Cheers
Super info. Thanks
Cheers
Very excellent thank you!
Cheers
I needed to hear this... Figure out what works decent and then shoot the damn thing.
However, the virus and associated shortages have forced me to resort to new and different powders and bullets. So lately it seems I'm constantly forced to develop new loads based on what is available when I go to town.
Hope all is well with you and Sam.
Yes we are good, look after yourself too, Cheers
Hello Mark and Sam Nice chat as always. :)
Are you guys down under having issues getting Powder and Primers like we are in the US ? Just wondering.
Yes, same all over the world, Cheers
I believe it is all a part of their plan
i only clean my barrels when they stop shooting at the accuracy i know it normally shoots.. it has always worked well for me..
Cheers
I agree with you. With chrome-moly steel barrels I also clean if I feel there is a risk of corrosion. I also think that the first bullet(s) shot in a 100% clean barrel will produce flyers (different velocities and friction vs a fouled barrel)
@@br4713 spot on mate.... i think its awesome you make some of the shots at elr distance without really doing a load workup.. do you think maybe it would get you on target faster if you did? just curious what you think. i havent had much luck without doing it. sometimes id get lucky and get a good result but i found if i really want to keep the es down i have to at least do a powder charge test even if i skip the seating depth test..
@@tjarmand I make some load developments too. First I look for my max powder charge, so I know what is the load I can use safely (a bit lower than this max to be able to use it at higher temperature). Then I get the accurracy by adjusting the seating depth.
You awesome. Thank you
Cheers
Maybe I'm wrong, but we'ren a barrel heats up. There should be less pressure because it expands not not contracts. That would mean less pressure on the board. Not more, do you see this this way? Or am I seeing something wrong?Please comment
Quite wrong, more heat, more pressure... Cheers
Thanks mate, very, very informative video....
You did say, "work harden", correct?
Cheers!
Yep, Cheers
One huge myth floating around gun land is that carbon fiber 22 barrels don't get hot. In reality they get hotter than hades because the heat can't reach the surface.
Yep, lol, Cheers
Reminds me of motorcycle exhaust mufflers in the aftermarket. The carbon canister sure works well preventing scorching heat from the surface. Same thing for gun barrels. I'd say it's an insulator.
Hi Mark
Good job on all the videos and info you give it's very helpful. I really enjoyed the last 22 magnum video you made shooting all the tins of fizzy enemies🤣 it was something different from the normal shooting.
I have a question I'm hoping you could tell me what you would have gone for. I've just got a 50BMG with a 1:15 twist and 33" barrel, the bullets I want to load is Peregrine and it comes in 750gr (61.19mm long) 850gr (63.70mm) and a 870gr but I don't know it's length. They are all solid copper, which weight would you recommend out of those 3 for ranges going from 1000m - 3200m that could do it all? I live 1200m above see level.
Stay safe cheers
Thanks Man, you would test, as always lots more to it than you might think, but not sure you have the twist to run the heavies, FYI if looking for more info than on the channel, consider becoming a 4AW member, there is a little more we can offer for team members, Cheers
Hi mark ,great advice , what powder are you using in your 243 .
2209
Mark I hope you guys are not close to the fires East of Perth if you are be safe
Not far of, but we are all good, Cheers
Thanks for the great info Mark , Mate I’ve got to the point with my F class set up has gone off the boil and it’s time to replace the barrel , the action is an old Omark 44 in .308 win , I had a conversation with my gunsmith and he has recommended a True flight s/s bull barrel I have had nothing to do with this make and wondering what you think if you have anything to do with them or what you would recommend as a replacement for this set up . Thanks Steve .
They are good barrels, I have used a couple, Cheers
Thanks mate I’ll give them a try . Steve
Cheers
What's your opinion on the .17 WSM round? I'm buying one of the new generation of the Savage Bmags in a Boyd's stock, and a heavy fluted barrel.
I'm coming from a Ruger American .17 HMR that shoots ragged holes at 100m and cheap ammo, but wanted the extra range and wind deflection the WSM has to offer, without going to a centerfire and having to hand load to keep costs down as varmint ammo is 2 or 3 bucks a pop.
Is the WSM too much for the projectiles to be accurate? There's more negatives online regarding accuracy than positives... hopefully stemming from the poor quality sporter Bmags.
I have not used, so wouldn't comment, Cheers
I have a 17 hornet, which has even more powder capacity, and it is accurate. I dont't think the velocities can be an issue. I think you should consider a very important aspect since it uses factory ammunition : the ammo availability in your country. The .17 of my dreams would be the 17 Fireball
I have a B-Mag 17WSM with heavy barrel and Boyd’s Adjustable stock. Tack driver and extremely accurate! Keep in mind that some online can’t shoot for sh1$!
Hi Mark when are you gonna test the new Savage Impulse ?
No sorry we don't have any connection to test Savages rifle, the importers don't feel the need to help, Cheers
What about high humidy. Would the barrel foul up much quicker and cause damage?
As said would see, adjust to your conditions, more moister means the need for more protection, beyond that you need to work out what your stuff needs.
I only use factory rounds of Hornady 55g. I find that it suits my 223 Tikka t3 lite. The laws are strict in Ireland so haven't heard many people loading.
Same answer, you need to see what works for you, Cheers
1st?
Cheers
Does fluting a barrel affect its performance?
A little less weight v stiffness! Cheers
Here is a barrel one for you, with the new 6.8 western, Browning makes all there 6.8 western rifle barrels 26" and Winchester makes all there 6.8 western rifles barrels in 24" why ???
Well, another sales venture, short to suit the hunter, really just to try and sell rifles and ammo that you don't already have, give it a few years and see if it has worked or just another swing and a miss, lol, Cheers
I appreciate you're info but it is a long video for me right now
Lol, Cheers
I hope you make a butt load of coin. You sponsor no one an are one the most knowledgeable people on the internet. Any company you may spay out out of random should be paying you. If not payed by the government.
Thanks Dan, and FYI, we do not charge nor have ever been paid, sometimes we get some nice products, but never funds, Cheers
Thank you Mark, very good information ive taken to heart. I just got a new tikka barrel and was thinking of "breaking" it in. Will try taking it very slow and ensure the bore is very cool the first shots and break in portion of getting this barrel shooting well.
Thanks Man