Edge Retention Test! 8cr13mov vs 440c Common chinese steels
Vložit
- čas přidán 26. 12. 2016
- cedric-ada-store.creator-spri...
Good gravy its bricky on things
Subscribe and hit the bell! Hit like and all that good stuff.
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/... - Full steel testing list for my cut test videos, free to all.
/ cedricada - support me on patreon if you like, helps me do the expensive stuff! - Věda a technologie
440C isn't a cheap Chinese steel. It's just very commonly used in industry so it is readily available for lower prices. The heat treatment is extremely important though so it will vary as with any steel.
May not be cheap Chinese steel, but it is cheap steel non the less.
Man, I just love your rope cutting tests. Your videos are fun and informative! Keep it up!
I know it's an old vid, but I still use this as reference when looking at budget knifes. Thank you!
I like both these steels fine. They are serviceable and easy to sharpen but with the cost of d2 dropping so much in recent years I'm d2 all day for relatively inexpensive knives.
I chose Ganzos because of smooth one handed operation & if working at Sea, it gets dropped into the Ocean. its not a big deal vs a 100 to 200$ knife. they take and hold an edge well enough.
Wow, solo jazz piano in a knife steel video. The world is full of delightful surprises...
440C isn't actually a chinese steel.....it started in the USA
at the end...when you list the blade material and the cuts it made...you should list the knife and manufacturer with it...as most companies heat treat differently, and to different rockwells you could get an American knife made from 440C that'll cut totally different from a chinese knife made from 440C
Randy Yeager oh yeah, as I said there will be huge variation with something like 440c. I'll update the list in that way when I start the next round lf tests👍🏻
These are really informative, hell of a good channel man, keep it up
This is very good information, even if, as you point out, there are caveats. Could you possibly add some carbon steels to the comparison test list? Perhaps 1095, 5160, 1075 (Condor), and whatever it is Mora uses in their carbon steel blades?
can you try 8cr13mov on a Spyderco knife, ganzo gets their 440c right but I have a buck 285 and it's 420hc but my Spyderco in 8cr I know does better and this test says it's the other way around, a Spyderco Byrd meadowlark or cara cara 2 isn't much below $20 US.
Did the Orange Ganzo come sharp or did you have to sharpen it?
From what I understand, the Ganzo is more likely 9Cr18MoV, a Chinese 440C equivalent.
Is the steel of spiderco persistance similar in Edge retencion to the 12c27 in moras?
are both blades the same width? do both blades have the same agle in sharp?
Could you please try a benchmade or spyderco 440c? Thanks a lot.
Interesting would be a comparison to a Solingen made Böker knife in 440C as they have the HT down for that particular steel.
I was wondering which was better... Thank you Pete
were did you get the Ganzo haven't seen them for sail in Australia yet
I'm in the states and we order direct from China
You can get them domestically here but you pay almost 10 dollars more.
Gearbest, fasttech, and aliexpress all have them. I'm sure there are many more, you might have similar sites that are specifically geared towards servicing Australia
I use gearbest personally but I don't know how easy it is to ship knives to Australia
10 USD*
I like the music! It kinda reminds me of a Charlie Brown cartoon.
It's important to remember that the primary and secondary bevel play an equally important role in edge retention. Also, were the edges toothy or polished? "This one [440c] had more stuff behind it" I think he's referring to the depth of the secondary bevel. Longer would usually mean a narrower angle if the width of the knives were the same, but we don't know the width. Narrower would mean sharper but also mean a disadvantage on retention. Gotta know the variables to make a meaningful comparison. I believe 440c is a more capable steel than 8cr13mov, but as others have stated -- heat treat is everything.
Forgot to mention rockwell hardness. Knowing the Rockwell Hardness of these two knives would also help as it greatly affects retention.
hey Cedric...can you have a go at 9cr14mov? newer Chinese steel with the higher number supposedly relating to increased carbon content and. therefore better edge holding properties... supposedly! I have made a couple of knives using this steel and I rate it with 440c.
+Wade Jensen cool man! Will do - i think there are some gerbers in that so I'll check it out!
Cedric & Ada Gear and Outdoors thanks champ... I am actually making some knives out of 9cr14mov so if you get stuck give me a yell and we will see what we can do!
440C properly heat treated should convert a decent amount of chromium into carbides and really hold an edge very well.
Don't tell him but there's a wolf behind him!
**syberian husky
moon moon
*Cries in good boi*
Longer blade= larger surface area to dull
i really like these tests. but maybe just a thought... you should try to use similar blade shapes and geometry for every knife. maybe that blade shape of the ganzo but in 8cr13mov would have lasted longer. does that make sense? im sure it would be pretty difficult to find exact blades but im sure it can be close. then again you don't want to spend more money than you need to on these knives.. But very cool videos. i actually just saw your overview on all the knife tests you have done and ive used that for what knife steels i buy now. like the 14c28n instead of the more expensive vg10. keep them coming! i just bout a spydiechef with the lc200n and im getting it monday. i liked your results for that steel! and if im not mistaken you did the corrosion resitant test with that steel and a few others. now i just need to get a maxamet blade to be the king!
if he could afford that he could probably also afford a CATRA tester and avoid hand injury while simultaneously increasing consistency, there is only so much you can expect from a private individual posting the results of his hobby on the internet and one should simply accept that the results are not going to be perfectly accurate
I think this is more an indictment of the quality and/or competency of 98% of Chinese knife makers. 8cr is cheep steel, but on the stay sheet should do better. 440c however had earned a solid and well researched reputation for being a sound steel. No it's not S30v, it's not supposed to be. However, over time I have come to be a firm believer the quality of of the craftsman heat treating and knowledge is more important than the the small difference in composition. Just my opinion.. and thirty years experience.
can you please test cold steels cts xhp?
Sam Pulver comin very soon!
Going dull is sometimes preferable in survival type knives so you can even use a rock to sharpen it in the field. Some knives need professional grade sharpening. I have a Japanese knife that is so hard the tip is brittle and broke off and it is nearly impossible to sharpen. It damaged my tungsten based sharpener. Even a good sharpening stone I got doesn't seem to do anything
Good point. As a longtime fan of these cheapo 'beater' type knives, have the same experience with virtually all the '440' stainless steels in either A, B or C grades, often w/ sketchy 'heat treatment'. Initially they all seem to take a nice sharp edge, but 'retention' quickly suffers. Though on the other hand, can quickly restore 'em anywhere in the field... even on a rock, the edge of a mug or glass, whatever. And instead of being a 'display queen', still inexpensive enuff to risk damage or losing overboard. IMHO it''s pretty good value for $10-$20 bucks!
Could you do a test on svords current 15N20 pls at some point?
15n20 is just tougher 1075
I've been binge watching all your vids my fellow crooked glasses knife nerd
I've seen you commenting on random videos for YEARS.
Just seen that blade HQ has added a gift knife with 9cr13mov. Not 8, 9. Trying to find out more about this steel. As it is a gift, I expect it to be cheaper than 8cr13
so the 440c did about the same as the 12c27 used in mora....I only say. that here as a lot of American sites rate 12c27 with 420hc which pissed me off because they don't have any testing to back it up!
In my opinion 12c27 is a super steel, not on the exact same level as expensive super steels but right below them and above any other type of SS steel, I use a bunch of Moras and they reguraly outperform any other
knife I use.
Also they are dirt cheap.
Anonymous User
Well it depends, for example 12c27 easily outperforms 440C, its about on the same level as VG-10, while H1 a supersteel performs worse than 440C except for its corrosion resistance.
12C27 may not be a supersteel but its very close to it for a fraction of the price.
El Tuko you only think 12c27 is a super steel (allmost) because its the only "scandi grind" knife you have? Am i right?
Wade Jensen The data shows that 440C is about the same as 12C27 so you are right.
12c27 is better than 440c I think the only poor 12c27 u can bye is on opinel knives they put less carbon in their recipe but sandvik steels are some of the best price to preformance steels u can buy
Ha 440 C-edric and 440 A-dda
I'd really like to see you test some carbon steels as well... mora's carbon and stainless, 1095, O1, A2, 3V, etc... Elmax would be awesome too. These videos have made me regret my decision to get the S30v version of the manix 2 over the S110v haha
Aaron Rowe carbon steels will happen! 👍🏻 and hey, S30V performed really well in my opinion! Very good for the 70 less dollars you pay for it!
Cool!
Just popped in to experience the time warp.
All these names, man. It's so hard for me to get out of the High Carbon steel blade community with all these different names. It's like most of them were generated by letting a cat walk across a keyboard.
another banger
What music are you using during the cut tests? It's great..!!
First one's called "Carry the Golden Flame" though this only nets you part of the song. To get the full song, look up "Starlight Lounge iMovie Song". The second is called "Let's turn out the Light", both are royalty-free tracks. I get tired of finding tracks, only to have no one try and search, then reply back when they actually find it, don't you?
@@KazBlack44 Much appreciated - thanks. :)
Entrek Knives heat treat their 440C to beat even ESEE Knives 1095.
Yes but let’s face it, ESEE runs their 1095 10 Rockwell points too low. Also, don’t know what kind of microstructure or normalization and grain refinement their 1095 has.
Note I’m not discrediting 440C, but 1095 definitely does get discredited mainly because they heat treatment and geometries given by the large companies is quite suboptimal.
0:02 Some Emu War veteran is getting an unexpected flashback and PTSD trigger from this intro
Paint dry vs rope cutting... Close.
440C stainless steel is not budget steel first off. You are thinking about 440 or 440A or 440B steel. 440C stainless steel has been proven to be among the most reliable. From makers of BUCK KNIVES - ESSE KNIVES ONTARIO KNIVES and custom knife makers. And over 90 percent of high quality knife makers still use American made 440C stainless steel today. It's a proven steel 440C stainless steel. All buck used on its amazing 110 was 440C year 1970 threw the 1980. People don't know how to sharpen knives why buck went from 440C stainless to 420 HC steel witch is a budget steel but a good choice and very easy to sharpen.
Seahawk.Customs.Pc I agree alot of cutlery enthusiast's continue to put 440c steel into lower category steel charts but if you remember 1970s Buck 110s they had the hardest High Quality steel blades but if you lost your edge on those knives it would take a week to sharpen the blade!!!!!! 440 c is a proven Quality Steel!!!!8 Crap mov is a below marginal Quality Steel used to flood the market with inexpensive Chinese Slave Labor Pocket Knives!!!!! You of course get in value what You Pay for in Cutlery Products!!!!!For the money I like 154 Cm or S30 v or S35 vn !!! Sincerely Thomas Raymond of Fresno California!!!!
440c is now a common budget steel it is only good In Buck knives nowadays
apparently 440c has many nuances, anyway most of marketed 440c is actually 440a
Correct. The chemical characteristics of 440c vary wildly. I would wager that most U.S. and Japanese variants will tend to be closer to the spec you'd find on a steel chart. I would also wager that the bigger Chinese brands (the ones mostly targeting sales in their own country, like Ganzo, Bee, Sanrenmu, etc.) probably use a decent variation as well.
Seahawk.Customs.Pc 440C used to be a premium steel but is now predominantly used in budget and mid range knives.
my spyderco tenacious sez 8cr13mov on the blade.
When did 440C become a "budget" steel?
When did 440C change from an American steel to a Chinese steel?
FYI: 440C was the original "Super Steel" back in the 1960's and 1970's.
Also, heat treat and edge geometry are more important than the steel type.
Did you haveve both knives sharpened to the same inclusive angle? (I'm guessing probably not) an acute angle holds a better working edge than an obtuse angle.
Unless you had both sharpened to the same angle and thickness behind the edge, and they are at the same hardness, you're comparing Watermelon to Brussel Sprouts.
I'll take the CARTA test results more seriously than some know nothing self proclaimed "expert" on you tube.
You don't like 8CR13MoV. Fine & Dandy. Oh, by the way, 9CR18MoV is the "440C Equivelent" not 8CR13MoV.
8CR13MoV is between 440A and 440B.
It was hinted at in this video, (and explicitly stated in others) but at the time this was recorded and posted Pete would sharpen the knives being tested with a Worksharp Knife & Tool sharpener to 20 degrees per side, so 40 degrees inclusive, convex edge.
👍
You should review 5cr13mov by crkt I love their minimalist
Its worse 5cr13 is the low of low.
Then 7cr17mov being to soft
Then 8cr13mov chinese version of aus8
Then 9cr13mov being comparble to bucks 420hc in performance.
Still 3cr13mov is comparble to chinese 440a... So yeah
I like this BGM,let me want to sleep!
😴😴😴
where did you get your glasses from? they look crooked.
It would be interesting to see some variation of this test series but with fixed blades, not entirely sure how it would work though. Maybe logs batoned or feathers made on sticks? Those numbers might be way too high to actually do regularly, who knows. Very insightful series so far!
Cyclone Outdoors yeah a big part of ny decision making was a material that was pretty constant but would act reasonably fast dulling an edge. Wood is a really low abraisive material for dulling knives, unless its dirty or got bark on it. Its great for testing toughness by batoning or cross chopping, though. I'll be doing some fixed blade steels like 01 and A2 and 1095 but probably still with the rope.
I think the difference only lies in the blade length(more like edge length) as you were trying to dull the entire edges
I prefer sodium blades, easy to sharpen😀😀
I enjoy these edge retention tests and appreciate the amount of time you invest in doing them but you really should have chosen two similar blade profiles for this test - pitting a wharncliffe against a blade with a belly is going to skew the results - thumbs up all the same :)
440C ist a budget steel that doesn't have much use today anymore.
There's many better options now and it's easy to screw up the heat treat.
American and German manufacturers usually have really good heat treat on these, so you may get the knives if you love the design.
But I would be cautious with Asian manufacturers using this steel.
Buck Knives is well known to have the most respected 440C knives on the planet
Switched from 440c to 425mod in 1981 then to 420hc since 1992 ... not the same.
I'm not really sure why I even watched this. I've used both steels in the past, won't use either again tbh
Singlet 😀 we call it a ‘wife beater’!!
Sometimes it is not going to be the steel but how the blades are sharpened. By the factory
He sharpens the blades himself the same way every test, to remove that variable.
You cut that paper at the beginning, dulling them before we even started considering these steels edge retentions.
My 8CR13MOV works wonders in the kitchen!.. Everyone needs aluminum foil.
8CR13MOV I have found to be a fantastic steel... for spreading cream cheese on a bagel.
But as for cutting the LOX, better off to use the edge of a spoon.
Sounds like the Chinese compounds from the knife have flaked off onto your food and made way to your brain. Do you remember what sharpening is?
@@LB-np5zv
Well considering I had to sharpen an 8CR blade every time I butter toast, yeah... I remember it well.
I'd much rather spend 3 minutes once a month stropping a 20CV.
@@nolobede It depends on heat treatment and what it the blade will be used for. 8Cr13 is a clean steel and can be heat treated to 60-61HRC like the Spyderco does.
Main problem with 8Cr13 is that most companies don't heat treat it correctly so we get soft steel.
8CR13 its a clean steel, it gets a high apex stability and high impact resistance but low abrasive resistance. Even with correct heat treatment It will have relatively bad performance on rope cut tests and Catra beause the test is aimed at the steel weak point. Same low performance will happen with 1084 and even Aogami Blue yet we have great knives on these steels.
For impact knives well treated 8Cr13 is much better than well treated ZDP189.
For kitchen knives that don't come in contact with high abrasive materials clean steels also shine. They have high apex stability and allow a sharper edge.
For the field and dealing with high abrasive materials than its performance will not be so good and that is where new powder metallurgy steels shine.
@@LB-np5zv
Yeah, I just dont think sharpening after each time I butter toast is a good use of time.
@@thiago.assumpcao
Well aware of compounds, ingot steel, powdered steel compositions, heat and annealing processes... Blah blah. Ive yet to find an 8cr blade worth a shit, any manufacturer.
It has its uses... Just not in my pocket. Its no 10V. To be fair it has better edge retention than an aluminum spoon.
That CRKT is a swindle.
Why" Does it cost too much? ; )
Sorry its actually not. I looked it up and It really says its born in the US
Crkt has blows donkey nuts even though I like the designs
The absolute SALT of these twits on this 5 year old video. My god Pete…don’t know how you do it. Muh inclusive angle ! Muh same blade shape ! Muh US MADEEE STEEEL !
God bless. Thank you.
Nice intro music. smh
440C is common USA and EU steel, chinese use cr steels, 440C is much better anyway.
440c is a German steel
Which is now mainly used in China xD
I use this CRKT to open my cat's canned food.It is a pathetic knife.
Yeah you really have to use the same knife. As different blades of the same steel will wear differently depending on geometry of the blade.
Why bother
I'll never buy another Ganzo again. They use cheap, soft screws that strip very easily or just turn and don't back out. Plus they use red loctite on their pivot screws which is a bitch. Their version of the axis lock come extremely stiff as well. If you get a good one out of the box and never plan on taking it apart then they're a good deal. Otherwise I'd steer clear of them. They have to cut corners somewhere to sell them at the prices they do and what I've found is they're cutting those corners with their cheap screws.
Johnny Shanksalot I am real. Doesn't matter to me how many people have had good experiences with them. I only judge them by what I've found. I'd rather spend more money and know I'm getting a good knife than take another chance with Ganzo. Ruike, Real Steel, WE are a few Chinese brands that put out much better quality.
I'm with Johnny on this one. I've had half a dozen and have not had a problem with any. and I love they use lock tight! nobody else does that in that price range. 4mm thick too!
whatbuttondoipush Don't know why anyone would prefer having red loctite on the screws. If you need to disassemble the knife you need a soldering iron to heat the screw to remove it. Red loctite is generally hated by guys who maintain their own knives. Blue loctite is most always preferred. I have a 50% success rate with Ganzos. Out of the four I've bought, two were good, two were garbage.
Sometimes a cheap, soft screw that strips easily is just what is needed. I mean, normally an expensive, hard screw that strips only with excessive torque is what I prefer... but going cheap and easy can be fun too... just say'n.
use usa made good 440c not chinese crap, we all know ganzo 440c is prob not even 440c or bad heat treat
yeah you are probably right. any suggestions of a knife to look for?
Cedric & Ada Gear and Outdoors try enzo in 440c or an etrek usa
Cedric & Ada Gear and Outdoors ...440c needs the sub zero quench....i know ganzo isnt doing that....the two i mentioned do. althrough entrek goes a tiny bit soft for 440c it will still test much better.
8cr13mov needs to be retired.
Mov sure is junk steel, I'm ashamed to own a mov
Such worthless, useless junk of steel😅
👍