How Much Difference Do Upgraded Brakes Make To Track Performance?
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- čas přidán 29. 06. 2024
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I feel like the lag between a human starting and stopping the timer might influence the result a little too much. Would be nice to use sensors to get the time instead.
Yes. Thank you. That hurts seing them happy about 0,15 s we they are not even at the proper finish line spot. That is really too bad. The device cost less that the cost of any upgrade they made.
You don't even need a separate device, any phone will do a 120 fps or more now, that can be used as a photo finish camera. Just put down a large clock with 1 thousandths visible in the shot.
true.. they need a timer on there track....
I think the timer is probably for entertainment value.
Thank you. That commet was over due since they use such a short technical track they need more accurate measuring methods
Getting closer to my time 👀👀👀👀 not much in it now!
I bet you should take some more laps =)
u been working on your other body parts bro?
We'd all rather have the M3 though.
You guys should get some proper timing equipment, a stopwatch just doesn't cut it any more!
L E G
"We're not going for hardcore track days, we just wanna beat that M3" 4:14 loool xD
Just remove interior parts that you can install back
Slavi Radulov how boring
Hey CT! Why don't you guys remap the 330d? It should make around 185bhp stock on dyno, and with the remap you could get around 225/230 bhp... i think it would be a good upgrade :D
It would be faster, im sure :D
On the living room gokart track like this one, engine power is not as important as tires and suspension. They're not lapping at Monza.
I'd do a weight reduction first, throw out a ton of interior junk and seats, heavy exhaust and remap it at the end.
@@after_midnight9592 yeah sure but, since it is a station wagon, it is not meant to be a proper track or race project to be going for weight reduction... i said the idea of the remap so it could get faster out of the corners and having more torque in lower rpms... because it is heavy as fuck...
330d allreadty makes 230 bhp stock. With a remap it should get somewhere between 270 and 280 bhp. But the extra 40 to 50 bhp won't make that much difference. It's the increase in torque that will gain the most advantage. Stock a 330d will make 500nm. With a proper tune it will be in the 610's to 620's.
@@jibbstar1856mate, are you sure? The 3.0td 6cyl from the 330d makes 204HP stock, not around 230... even if you dyno the car 100% stock, it would make just around 185/190...
My guess is the remap will be the last upgrade, since it will greatly benefit from all the tuning made so far.
Oh cmn, just remap the hell out of it :D
Decat it, egr and dpf off, pipes instead of silencers. Cheaper than the stuff you do atm :D
You know that it does not have a dpf.
I think he is trying to focus on handling not power to show people that power isnt the only thing to improve laptimes.
No, im not much of a BMW guy, have no idea when they started to have dpf, just know it can make a chit ton of power and torque with freed up exhaust and remap alone.
power is the last thing you do in a car. suspension is #1
WesTu True, but turbodiesels are easy to just remap and manage to make quite a bit of power.
y'all really need to invest in some proper timing equipment... I mean come on, you can sell it on your car throttle shop... cause this whole pressing start stop on the phone timer thing has at least 2 seconds of error. and you're talking about "clawing back .1 of a second"? there's no thumb in the world thats that accurate
I scrolled through way too many comments looking for someone else to notice this!
Can't do a technical test on such a short track using a bloody smartphone for timing!
You can be accurate when you can pace an event, that is why drag racers often hit a zero response time because they can keep pace with the lights.
But sadly that is never consistent, so for those 0.1 seconds you do need proper gear.
Since they shoot video anyways, they could setup a camera at the finish line and easily measure the timing in an editing software.
No extra investment needed.
MsSomeonenew in drag racing your get a print out about your reaction time, you don't time yourself... these are completely different things
Gregory Chalenko that would work, but they wouldn't be able to give he time right away in video
How reliable is a dude measuring the lap time with a smartphone?
Actually with A normal clock like one that's in a smartphone u can measure lap times within 0.2 second
It’s totally useless because of the finger reaction time and plenty of room for a human mistake. Up to one second easily
Even if you can make it to 0.1 or 0.2 seconds accuracy, it still doesn´t make sense to count the 0.01 second increments.
use a smartphone, but install Racechrono, free gps chrono app. I use it on track, it's a very good tool.
Not good. I Believe he performs much better with redtube and fapping
Add some stickers for +100hp
Don't forget the bodykit makes +250hp
And red calipers! That's at least 25 hp right there.
The stickers are only working on honda vtec
i say just stick a M badge on the back thats bound to add another 150hp
Ehh this joke doesn't do anything for me anymore 😴
2 things I never cheap out on, tires and brakes. Doesn't matter if it is a track car or a daily driver. They are the two most important parts on a car that will save your life and help you avoid a crash / not have to rely on the restraints and crash structure to reduce the amount of injury.
When will you take Gareth to Nurburgring Nordschleife?
Gabrielius Kačinskas and then trying not to break it...
Yeah, take me to the Nurburgring!
Call me Garrett and I'll come too.
@Versal Mit Unterstrich sorry
It's a damn diesel with a still stock engine. As long as this particular engine isn't modified it definitely won't break on the Nürburgring.
Probably the rest of the car but not the engine
This improvement looks more like because of Alex getting used to the car and track.
Bigger brakes can give more consistency, but for such short lap it doesn't matter. As long as your brakes can lock the wheels, you don't need more. It's all about the tires
Finally someone who understands the basic rules of physics. The big brake kit on a track like this can only positively influence the confidence of a driver (and maybe the amount unsprung mass but they didn't talk about and it the new kit probably isn't any lighter). Also the braking distance challenge was a load of bollocks, stock brakes can definitely lock up these not-even-semi-slick-tires so the brake kit shouldn't make any difference.
After this many attempts the improvement could just come from the time measurement error alone since their current setup probably has an error in region of +/1 second.
Advertise for Ebc company,not a proper test with stock brakes and this upgrades
All modern car brakes can locks the wheels at lower speeds, but they don't all offer the same retardation rates at high speeds.
being able to withstand high temps is a huge reason to upgrade brakes - more pads than anything. having that consistent performance over long periods of track use is something that stock setups cant provide even if they can lock the wheels during normal road driving scenarios
Even the big brake makers say stopping while hot doesn't cause warping. Instead, it causes hot pad material to cook onto the rotor, creating a high spot which later causes the pedal pulsations many attribute to warping.
Exactly. The info given by Alex at the 7:30 mark for how to bed in the brakes made me cringe and earned a downvote. WTF is all that BS. Read the god damn sheet the came with the pads and discs Alex...
And don't friken use copper grease!
@@ajfurrell3744 what's wrong with copper antisieze?
If you guys want to complain about something, how about Dot4 fluid on a daily driver?
Absolutely zero reason to do that. Changing to fresh dot3 would be fine but 4 and 5 suck up so much water it's ridiculous.
Lol the very first part talking about slotted discs is BS it's purely cosmetic.
Dot 4 is pretty much the same as dot 3. They are interchangeable. The dot 4 have a higher temperature boiling point.
love this series! next episode: how much difference makes a twin turbo V10 engine swap to a crappy old diesel station wagon? (alernatively a bigger turbo would do the job to beat the M3 I guess, just don't only do software and intake)
Haja they're gonna do a hybrid turbo I believe, I think they talked about it in the first video, they also posted a video about how to build a hybrid turbo a couple weeks ago on Facebook (definitely the turbo they're gonna use)
Just check if the sell a hybrid turbo on the CT shop. If they do they're gonna do it.
Just checked. They do one for the e46.
You can actually get very decent horsepower with this totally stock turbo this has. I know one of identical 330d's and it was remapped in 2004 when its owner bought it new and has been rocking 350hp/750nm since then. This actual car has been driven with remap now over 1 million kilometers. I spoke to the owner and he said that everything else handles the power quite well, except the clutch if you overtake using the low end torque. Said that you could ruin the clutch with one overtake with that kind of torque it has. I actually have thought about buying that actual car. It is truly one very well maintained high mileage hero. :)
The music for this series is freaking on point.
The problem with adding better brakes and expecting a better lap time right out of the gate, is that you've gotten used to the car and have a subconscious expectation of what it will do. You have to actively think about braking later into every corner and staying in the loud pedal long enough to really tighten some sphincters. And that's a lot harder than one might think.
Actually the problem is that big brake kit offers 0 benefit(maybe driver confidence) since on a track this short stock brakes won't have time to fade and braking distance is grip limited(you need better tires to shorten it).
@@WOOWOW96 correct. big brake kits are pretty much only beneficial on longer runs or constant repeated runs. a track day would see a benefit, but this super short track with only a few runs wont heat things up much. stock rotors with a new OEM grade pad would be enough to see clean runs. a Nurburgring day would love new rotors and pads for sure, but not this little circuit
lol these times are pretty useless xD get a track timer, having a guy just click on a phone is far too inaccurate, human reaction time is the biggest variable . fun videos tho
but the base time was set using a human so would be easier to beat that with a track timer
should have done it from the beginning, the average human visual reaction time is 0.25 seconds so these times could all be a quarter of a second of, when your chasing a tenth of a second a lap that makes no sense.
yes because you know its coming your reaction time is better but its still inaccurate
its not F1? you realize a F1 lap is a lot longer so the difference would be less? this is a 37 second lap time and they are chasing a 10th of a second. its not accurate enough. yeah im sure fucking ethan over there catches heaps of arrows, his reaction time is probably a full second looking at him
yes on a 5 second lap difference human error doesnt come into it much but this episode they mention a tenth on a second and they arent that accurate thats a fact, the difference may have been bigger and may have been smaller. they should have used a lap timer from the beginning its obvious, that why people use them to begin with because humans arent accurate enough on this sort of stuff
I dont think ive ever been this excited for a new episode of ANYTHING before. You guys at car throttle are doing amazing work
So basically alex never goes to shop with non-buff-af dudes ?!
As always, I have to praise ethan's and his team's work ... fucken rains outside - these guys make it look epic
I’ve learned so much about brakes from this video and I love it. Cheers for that CT!
I really like the direction this channel is going. Keep up the good work!
Trackday Bro, the track is too short to outweigh the variables.
Not only that, seems like there was only one major braking zone
@Kenny Argueta Ventura Its an experiment. You are free to imagine what the rough improvement would like by simply multiplying the time gained x distance on certain tracks on the mods. Longer tracks will also mean more strain to the car and more learning curve, more room to make mistakes for Alex (since he isnt a pro racing driver), etc all and all more unnesscesary variables, but with just simple short tracks you know that the car can take it and the tracks is easy to master therefore the laps will be valid all the time.
U
*Raditya Indera* Plus they can rent this track for themselves for a fraction of the price that a larger track would cost.
I like how you install one upgrade and test each effectiveness before new install. Great video👍
Except for the braking where he forgot to, and then had to use another car instead, very scientific indeed
Great set of videos guys! Loving seeing what difference all the mods make. Keep up the good work!
Wow nice filming and editing! next level stuff!!
I would like to see a series where you start with a modded car and slowly remove parts back to stock. I'm sure all the extra driving practice in the car makes a huge difference to the lap times and would love to see if the parts hold up to their times when the roles are reversed. Like the comment so we can get this done!
A very good idea!
Gareth has a huge gear knob...i mean.. the e46 called gareth
You may be right either way.
keep on these kind of series, love'em!
It's impressive to see how much you improved the editing of your video. it is getting better and better, every time. Amazing videos guys
Find a racing driver and compare an amateur driver and a professional driver?
carguy uk Alex is pretty much a racing driver, they can just put Ethan in to compare
@@EnzoFazzi no no he's not he has a lisence to race didn't mean he can compete with touring car drivers
I agree - I am not saying that Alex is a bad driver, but uh... he really is not a professional race driver, and I would love to see what time could a professional race driver put out of this BMW.
Old Top Gear did this with the old Stig and bigger brakes didn't work for them either
cole s and mefayor, have you guys watched this channel before?
i have the same brake discs on my s2k, they are awesome
So well explained. Brief and to the point. Keep this guy on the videos! ✌️
Absolutely love this serie
I wanna see the weight reduction episode but I’d hate to see that nice interior go
Still waiting on the weight reduction episode
But they cant sell ripping the back seats out on their carthrottle store 😂
Andrew Squires lol
same!
I’m not. What’s the point? It’s no longer a useable road car as soon as it’s stripped and it defeats the point of being faster than an M3 if it has no interior.
@@pb7870 thank you! I agree! Don't strip it.
that was some quality editing man. mad props!
THANK YOU, so many people get the bedding process wrong, glad you said it correctly
Please add the episode number, so that CZcams recognises it as a series
Strange to see Gareth there......thought he lived in your front garden !
love this series!
i gotta say man the wheels you have look amazing love the retro feeling they give the car; much respct and appreciation from Venezuela love the channel!!
JUST REMAP IT PLZ
I was about to comment the same thing. Get it to 300bhp and 400lb/ft
@@GeoB413 I doubt it would reach 300. Maybe 220, 250 at a push.
227hp stock, not a large ask to get it to 300hp
i think it will easily go over 260hp and 450Nm.
we will see :D
Power needs to be set after others ajustments, as the amount of power getting on the ground highly depends on other modifications.
Weight reduction
Cause you spent all your money on a big brake kit
Weight reduction is free😁
they mentioned at some point in the series that they want to keep it a sleeper so they probably won't strip it.
Because you can't buy weigt reduction in their shop
Potato damn he should do it. theres so much to remove...
@@el_michaelsen
You can sell lots of shiney carbon bits?
@Spiritpoweredinternet the difference of the body in white between a sedan and wagon is
Really enjoying these vids, you guys are all doing a great job.
When will we see a full test of the MX5 V6?😎
Great series!
Gareth helps Alex to change the brakes to Gareth
Alex gets in Gareth while Gareth is at the shop.
I think you guys just don't get it...for a track day car you don't need a lot of hp. You need handling, handling, handling and skills (How many times did we see car like s2k smashing BMWs m series onto a track?).Just after that you can start to tune the engine.
Well power is just as important, it's dependant on the track, whether it's a power circuit or handling circuit. And this comment Is irrelevant because they haven't even done any power mods to the bmw...
Handling? What does that even mean? You need grip and power. (Power to weight that is)
Formula 1 cars are known to "handle" like pigs. Yet they get around the track like nothing else. Ditto the fastest factory race cars around tighter circuits. Handling is tertiary to out and out lap times.
Totally agree; on the straights it helps but on a technical circuit cars with 120bhp can mix it with the expensive stuff, and in those scenarios all the power in the world won’t help.
Love it! Can’t wait for the next episode!
Full credit to the camera crew on this one, this the best B-roll I’ve seen on CT 👏
I probably missed the answer to this question, but where is Floyd?
I'm sure they sold homes or scrapped him but I can't remember if they've actually said
Maybe a short shifter will help
That and a grabbier clutch, nice shifting is great for track days, dont think it will help with times but is more fun to drive =)
Mint series, loving it!
Love this series! Can you do two changes per episode? Keeps things interesting strip the interior and a remap 👌🏼👍
I love EBC, have slotted disks with the yellow stuff pads on my car now, definitely the best quality at the price point
You should paint your brake calipers to red. Each red calipers you will get an increase of 25 kilowatts of power.
Zidane Chan what are you on about? Everyone knows red calipers give you 500 mm of extra power and 60 degrees celsius of torque.
Lol!
Good choice in brakes lads!! - I had yellow stuff pads and on my Z3 2.8 roadster and they were fantastic!! that coupled with braided lines, and CDV delete made a massive difference!
Great work guys
An ad inside of an ad, when you think you've seen it all...
Who does Gareth’s laundry? They keep shrinking his Tees
Great series !!!!!!
The style of this video plus Gordon's commentary is very welcome, obviously a well informed or well-rehearsed guy ;)
I have the same ebc groved discs with ferodo DS2500 on my 335i after few times on nürburgring they winced already and there is a lot vibrations on steering wheel
EBC is garbage
I have an e46 330i. Cheap disc warped, Bosch discs warped, so got brembo and they warped after two months. My conclusion, live with warped discs
Finally, someone with proper body proportions!
Damn that edit was fire. Nicely done!!
I'm totally diggin' the music on this series!
"where is the poweeeeeeeeer" J. Clarkson
Put differential ratio 2.93 from petrol 330i
Can you tell me why
much faster acceleration
Except I think that with torquey diesel engines it might not even help, especially when remapped because you should drive it with a bit lower revs to take full advantage of the massive torque.
Yes for every day yes But four track need shorter gear ratio to faster acceleration differential dont cost much like remap :)
I love how you guys listened to the viewer's feedback and prioritised 330d video release instead of the supercar video! Granted some comments are a bit harsh in that post but glad we got to see the 330d vid as usual. I'd love both but just here to say thank you:)
8:02 the whells are crazy
I got hawk HPS pads on stoptech slotted rotors and they are making a noise but it's not squeaking. It's like the sound you get from rubbing a wet thumb on glass. It's a low pitched rubbing sound that only happens a split second before you come to a complete stop. Does anyone know what this is? It is definitely not squeaking. It sounds almost like rubbing a balloon right before you come to a complete stop.
Check your brake lines. If they are rubber, then switch to metal lines around the actual brake disc and see if the sounds stops. It might just be the lines expanding at the mount
I’ve ran Hawk HPS+ on 2 cars, it’s nothing to worry about. It’s just the signature Hawk screech
@@Cod4assassins no offense that is the most stupid thing I've ever heard. Brake lines don't make noise. Its the pad material grabbing the rotor. I have the ebc yellows on my e63, and they can sometimes do it, or if im.playing with the car at a light I can make it creep and do it. Its is a slip stick condition that occurs because of the aggressive brake material.
Get in touch with "Racing Diffs" from Serbia for LSD. Tell them "Zagi sent you, the one that got LSD for C-class 250 TD" and they'll probably give you a discount. :)
@CroatianCarGuy a realno brat, oni samo daju popuste i sponzorisu haha
Awesome video Alex.
Really good video. Alot of real information clearly laid out. I thought it would alot of wise cracking jokes but i ended up being really well informed. Good job.
Need to put a larger Garrett on Garrett :) Pluss a diet and new seat
Woah...a whole lot of banging, pulling ,rubbing and pushing.
I just purchased a set of ebc slotted rotors, i can't wait to try them out on track day
This is sooo interesting for every used car owner! Great job!
The only thing remaining is STEEL BRAIDED BRAKE LINES
They'll make minimal difference
@@coles8089 From personal experience, I think it makes a huge difference. But if the old lines are in good shape probably the difference isn't that big
Marco Rocha in my experience (20 years of track days and modding) braided lines are always a good idea. They’re not going to give you any real extra stopping power but eliminating the possibility of the brake lines expanding under heavy hydraulic forces gives a much nicer pedal feel - particularly at the end of long straights where braking forces are maximized.
My first track car (1992 Pulsar GTI-R back in 1999) had two brake upgrades while I had it:
330mm front and 300 rear discs (separate bells and rotors, all grooved and drilled) with 4-pot Jag callipers front and standard callipers rear with various pads and braided lines.
Then
335mm front and 300mm rear rotors (drilled and grooved with aluminium bells) with 4-pot billet Hi-spec callipers front and 2-pot calipers rear. Again - braided lines all round plus some strengthening to the master cylinder mounts to eliminate pedal flex.
That car had a LOT of stopping force for the time (almost 20 years ago) so while I was never the fastest car on the track, not much could out-brake me. It was pretty common for other drivers to tell me they thought I’d have it into the gravel, only to see my brake lights go off before turn-in. :)
I remember it took a long time to find one of the only sets of 17x7” alloys that had the right inside clearances to fit everything in them and even then, you literally couldn’t put a credit card with its embossed numbers between the outside face of the front calliper and the inside face of the wheel spokes!! :)
I agree when u are doing track days with oem brack lines they will expand alot
If you look at 5:29 they have "performance" brake lines in the background (most likely steel braided). They just didn't talk about them
Just put a new exhaust manifold on it already. Jeez
It's a turbo engine, so a manifold wouldn't do much.
Just up the boost and tune it, and you're fine.
they need to get a manifold without the stupid swirl flaps, they get all dirty because of egr and the manifold can be like half the size and can make itself a big restriction
You just remove the swirl flaps, and fit blanks in their place, egr is seperate, and cant be removed on the later cars without mapping it out as it will throw an eml.
Or just clean the swirl flaps. They do a job in increasing torque at lower revs by increasing the intake velocity and combustion charge mixing.
Yup! And if you do egr-off there is no risk about those flaps breaking into the engine because the whole manifold will be cleaner.
I really enjoy this series! :D
I have an E46 328i and i love those video, it's a great way to see what i need to add to my santa letter :D
Is it wrong to have the hots for Garrett? 6:08
lmaooo
No. I was kinda shocked not to at least see some T H I C C memes in the comments.
He is one juicy man
They're both serious eye candy.
Maybe the next step should be upgrading your stopwatches, maybe put a camera at the track endline:))) peace
Love it can't wait for next episode!
I installed that exact setup on my race E30 last month! People have been very down on EBC but probably don't appreciate that compounds change over the years. I've found them absolutely fine.
Quick note on the allen key screws - these are a nightmare for rounding off. Soak them in penetrative fluid the day before, or get an impact driver you hit with a hammer. These are awesome!
I was thinking of getting the yellow stuff pads for my f10 530d, I've been watching a lot of videos on youtube and reading a lot of comments, and the info coming from real people that use them on their own cars and not some corporative review throwing specs from a piece of paper, really help me a lot making my decision. Thanks!
Do a performance exhaust like one from armytrix
Not sure if they have one for a 2000s 330 diesel 😂
They make a Huge Difference in my 2010 Prius...lol
Either you're on youtube 24/7 or youre thirsty for people to check out your channel
She has got 47k subs
This is a show i look forward to every week.
Love the jingles intro music !!!
You could put a wing on it
Hmm well it would be Extra weight but the downforce would be good for extra grip and handling for turns but straight aways would slow the car down so not worth it.
Lol at 40 mph?
Put two or three on it
Build a sleeper I5 Audi after this
Definitely
an I5 volvo ;)
Tay Tay old red block volvos were much better than the straight 5’s they replaced them with...
not that much better, more reliable? yes, hold more boost stock? yes, but the I5 is just a great engine, pity they did not put them into rwd cars
Tay Tay i have a 2001 volvo V70 T5 and i only got it because it was a cheap petrol estate car, fantastic car but I seriously do not understand everyone’s hype for them, I love the car, but too me i just don’t see it..
Hey CarThrottle I love your videos they are quality content
Omg the mighty jingles on that last lap
Do an v12 engine swap
Does not fit and is expensive af
Flio Razor if it doesn't fit stock it just had to FLEX a bit and the expensive part... it would be a f*cking V12
he's got 6 cyls already, just put 6 more to the boot.. And then.. *V* (have) *12* (cylinders)
Pay attention, its called project 330d!
V10 engine swap
I always see these bad mans driving around with there fog lights on in day time could you answer my question. Dose the car go faster with fog lights on or fog lights off would be interesting to find out.
Don’t take it seriously it’s a joke
If you dont use your turn signals you're faster to
+Tommy Cars&Games 97 There called daylight running lights, there automatic on most cars nowadays. Well they are on mine.
fogs use less power than headlights so less alternator drag therefore free HP!
disclaimereverypartofthiscommentisajoke
I used to do this because I wanted daytime running lights.... I can confirm it does not make faster.
But I now have DTRL so its all good xD
drl are in the headlights in most cars its stupid kids in these ford sts or a corsa what they mom and dad bought
this channel has come a really long way, i remember when you only uploaded videos about facts and shit, keep it up!
Good vid keep it up and ur actually a realy good driver
- get an upgrade turbo and tune in properly in the dyno not some chip stuff so that thing will be around 500nm
- dont forget the intercooler
-Egr and dpf off.
- use high performance diesel ( mayne its actually useful)
- engine and fuel cleaner additive
-Also clean the inlet manifold.
- Change gearbox oil and diff oil and add some ceramic additive
- get a shortshifter
With all that you w
-
Lets just add an new intake manifold and change the exahaust
It's a diesel it dosent have an intake manifold buddy
Alfie Brotherton :DDDDD it does have intake manifold wtf
@@alfiebrotherton935 can you name one diesel engine without an intake manifold?
@@lolzordje123 yo my mistake i was thinking about a throttle body I had a fucking brain fart sorry about that mate
@@alfiebrotherton935 no worries, I was just wondering if there were any.
I just love this series. When you guys doing the exhaust? Let's get them extra horses released.
8:28 What satisfying little beeps