Debate: Should We Isolate Russia? Partnership with the German Marshall Fund
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- čas přidán 21. 07. 2022
- At the time Vladimir Putin invaded Ukraine, Russia supplied the European Union with some 40% of its natural gas, 25% of its oil, and nearly half of its coal. But as punishment for the war, most of Russia’s energy imports to Europe will be banned by the end of the year, along with sweeping sanctions that target banks, businesses, and oligarchs. Is that smart policy? Those who argue “yes” say Russia must be punished for its actions, democratic governments should be protected, and that accommodations only embolden Moscow.
Those who argue “no” say isolating the Kremlin to this extent is a dangerous gamble, which could undermine Europe’s economies, push Russia further toward China, and lay the groundwork for an escalation. In this context, and in partnership with the German Marshall Fund, Open to Debate, formerly Intelligence Squared US Head of Editorial David Ariosto moderates a debate on this question, "Should We Isolate Russia?
#iq2us #debate #Russia #Ukraine #GMF #GermanMarshallFund #Biden #Putin #Brussels #Zelensky #Kiev #lviv #odessagram #kharkiv #odessa #nuclear #economy #blockade #food #sanctions #Moscow #davidariosto
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If you think we should isolate Russia from your moral high ground perspective, then we should have isolated USA long long time ago. Western hypocrisy is mind-boggling. -- Opinion of the people from the Global South.
^^^ Opinion of one muppet from nobody cares.
What a load of bullshit
@@JM-zg2jg no its a mass universal idea in the gl0bal south. they hate the west and U$ for their heinous policies. you supported apartheid, supported deaths of millions in indonesia, phillipines, vietnam, cambodia, laos, destroyed lraq and created lsls, destroyed afghan and Suria and still occupy them. operati0n condor, all the coups and training/armlng extremists in nicaragua, el salvador, afghan, and chechnia (and now ukralne). funding war lords in chlna's civl war to make fortunes off of narc0tics emplres, like roosevelt and forbes did (hi john kerry, search "john kerry syrla tapes"). the atr0cities in Corea so many more. stuff so far beyond. the illegal starvation sanctions on Cuba and venezuela and afghan. starved tens o thousands of afghan kids, the list is honesly too long
and the pepoles of the global south are educated now (the west prevented them from becoming educated for centuries thru heinous raclst col0nial policies) and they know full well what the score is and who is and isn't on their side. you can see it reflected in the distribution of countires/ people backing N4t0 and who aren't
The arrogance of these sheep is predictable
I don’t know about Russia but UK EU USA getting increasingly isolated… nobody wants to deal with them.
Dreaming dude. There is not One country turning away UK investment
@@happyhappynuts It's like bitcoin man!! Once you make your profits you are out!! nobody cares about UK. UK is full of clowns. Wait till it all collapse once scotland and Wales leave!!!
@@hellothere9889 when the leaders of Russia, China and India stop sending their kids to UK and USA, and rather, most UK leaders send their kids to study in India, Russia and China that will tell us the real situation. Until then, the idea USA and UK etc are failing and isolated is a delusion
Europe, that's the place that was liberated by Russia in 1945. Wink wink.
It actually was. Are you denying simple fact?????
@@numuves I don't think he is. Maybe his comment was aiming those who think that US liberated Europe in two world wars ;)
You mean by a collective effort of various countries? Russia only happened to be backstabbed by Germany, or they would have gladly helped Hitler in conquering Europe.
Russia wouldn’t have stood a chance without supplies and material from the US and other European countries.
Russia was just as economically and logistically shitty then, as it is today.
Never mind that they immediately turned to trying to take it all over, the instant the Nazis were stopped.
I feel terribly bad for the Russian people.
Three centuries of dictators, pogroms, starvation and brain drain, has brought them so low, that it looks like Russian society will never recover.
Russia died when the USSR fell. Without their neighbors to subjugate, they have nothing to offer anybody.
@@JM-zg2jg Haven't you heard when they say "winner takes it all". The USSR was the winner despite the Hollywood narrative. And the development in the USSR from a feudal society to an industrial giant in a short time, and despite wars is the biggest in history.
This is more like a debate between delusion vs. reality
Reality bites
Both positions could be seen as delusional by the other, and we know arguments of each side. Which one do you refer to?
@@emunozqthe reality is foreign interference never means to work
@@cybourne5910 Yes I agree, but I still believe in diplomacy, which has not being used here. That's because the cold war NATO - Russia has been going on for more than 10 years now. And there is no attempt for diplomacy from either sides. Ukraine is the unlucky loser of this episode.
@@emunozq when you are the biggest bully in the house, diplomacy would not be as appealing....
Who are the we? Certainly not Africa, South and Central America,Asia and the Middle East aren't isolating Russia. The we in this case is the west,which has succeeded imposing self-isolation. The hubris of the west is amazing.
We are WASP ( white Anglo-Saxon protestant ) countries + European free riders on the back of the US with no independence or real say in any of this geographical game + very few Asian dependent countries living under the US security umbrella and dancing to whatever tone it plays.
The rest of human race don't give a damn if not rooting for Russia.
I had to turn off this video after I heard that MORON McFaul speak. It isn't The West that's in a position to isolate Russia. It is Russia that is in a position to totally isolate The West. Putin anticipated what would happen if he invaded Ukraine, and the result now is a resounding Victory for Russia. The West has CLEARLY Lost in Ukraine already, and the result is that the rest of the World is pulling away from and isolating The West. What Propaganda Bull Sh!t !!! The West is trying to sell its DEFEAT in Ukraine as some type of Victory. Only someone Totally Brainwashed by Western Propaganda would believe that !!!
As a 72 year old American, I say that if America and The West has ANY Class and Self Respect At All, it would bend its knee to Mr Putin as its Conqueror, and then Kiss His A$$ o get back in his Good Graces before he completely annihilates the West without firing a bullet or a missile at it. Mr Putin has CHECKMATED America and The West and it's time they admit it and Just Move On !!!
@@Red-90 that is because the West thinks that they are THE WORLD. Everyone else are just uncivilized creatures.
'Hubris, a quality possessed by cunts who often perish from it.'
East Asia like Japan and Central America are in the American sphere dude.
The title of the debate says "Should We Isolate Russia"? Who are "We" in the first place? If "We" only stand for the US, EU & their allies, remember they don't represent the world. Thus there is no way you can isolate Russia (or China).
Very well said!!! USA is the biggest problem for Europe and for the rest of this world.
"The west" thinks that they represent the whole world when they are only 20% of the world population. lol
Keep deluding yourself more than half of global economic might is located in west, best militaries and R&D,3rd world can whine about it but who cares lol
Russian economy just because some shallow sanctions is in free fall,and if not gas and oil they would be fucked beyond repair, which is most likely to happen either way.
West doesn't need some 3rd world countries approval to impose and enforce sactions on any country or regime.
@@lucixize You probably like to listen to CNN or similar news... CNN interviewing Mr. Blinken just a few weeks ago: Is Russia winning Mr. Blinken? Blinken: Russia is loosing badly against western guns and against Ukrainien troops trained by NATO instructors in past years! OK , glad to hear that Mr. Blinken! Blinken: Believe mi, "Russia wanted to delete Ukraine from map" and did not manage dispite the fact that people in Pentagon believe, that Russia would be able to delete whole USA within 45 minutes!!! It means that Ukraine is now the biggest superpower in the world!!! OK Mr. Blinken , and is Russia loosing economicaly as well due to sanctions? Of course Russia is loosing economicaly as well. Standard of living in Russia is down and in EU and USA is up!!! Thank you Mr Blinken!!
@@lucixize i hope more in the west thinks like you. 😁😄👍
Um.....the more apt and realistic question is "can you isolate Russia"? And the answer is clearly no because 1) The US and its Western allies are not the world (shocking I know). 2) Russia is the world's largest country, one of the few that is basically entirely self sufficient, has more neighbour countries than anyone else, has the greatest amount of Artic land. 3) Russia has plenty of friends. Important ones such as China and India (who make up almost half the world's population combined). You may have noticed that most of Africa, Latin America, and Asia are not only not following your sanctions they are in fact increasing the amounts of energy and grain they are buying from Russia. 4) Most of the world is already dependant on Russia for grain and fertilizer (that most important ingredient for growing food), as well as large parts of it needing Russia's oil and gas.
The idea that it's possible to turn Russia into North Korea because only one part of the world ....the West.....is imposing sanctions is American delusion at its finest.
Not to mention those sanction brings nothing but global inflation and financial crisis on the horizon!
@@eveleung8855 exactly
"1) The US and its Western allies are not the world (shocking I know). "
It is 25% of the world?
Russia can't even build a car anybody would be stupid enough to purchase. Russia can't keep bread on their store shelves unless it caters to the Russian elite. Russia is worthless and a threat to the world.
Lol so much fantasy in the comments. Russia is already isolated. Of course it's not N.Korea type isolation. But in terms of having a modern economy, it's already isolated and in the dumpster. Russia accounts for about 2% of the word GDP (the US accounts for 25%). GDP per capita is about $30K, about the same as Trinidad and Tobago. China is the only country that Russia can turn to for financial and technical support, and China is pragmatic. "In March, Chinese shipments of laptops and smartphones to Russia plummeted by more than 40% and 60%, respectively, while exports of telecommunications network equipment fell by a whopping 98%, according to the U.S. Department of Commerce. SZ DJI, China’s leading drone maker, halted operations in Russia to "reassess compliance requirements in various jurisdictions." russiamatters.org They can trade all they want with various other broken economies, it makes little difference if you are talking about how much that is going to keep your economy thriving. I can go on, but clearly this whole comment section lives in fantasy.
The main topic should be: Should we isolate ourselves from the rest of the world?
100% correct
Haha Haha you're so funny
If America and NATO were isolated the World will be at PEACE, No More Wars! The Arrogance & Hypocrisy of the West is on full display!
Lets be honest and face it. The world has never been more united against the USA. All Global Key Players and Heavyweight are on Russia’s camp with infinite commodities at their disposal. Who does the US have today in their camp? Maple syrups, Pasta land, Fashion land and Beer garden. Who else?? The west is OVER
@@blardymunggas6884 You mean USA is over. EU is part of the west, and is here to stay, no matter what the nay sayers and winter obsessed morons say.
Isolating Russia from who? The West? Europe?
Yes , ; idiots are in large numbers xxxxxx they get also payed for this to be an idiot member
Take good care of yourself 🍀❤
I believe that western countries are isolating them selves more and more. To be honest is very selfish for Europeans to isolate russia and most of poor African countries suffer with the consequences of that
I disagree. It is neither selfish nor intelligent from EU-rope, it is collective square suicidal stupidity of fools who are degenerated and have stopped to think for themselves too long ago. The only thing they achieve is fake harmony based on an external enemy.
The childless „Leaders“of EU-rope and the west have no future in their wasted heads.
Intelligence is to find a better or best way, not the worst .
It is beyond selfish , it is of behavior dating of the dark ages
Russia is the one blocking Ukrainian ports exporting grain. What a hypocrite.
Leave Africa out of your mouth.
There we go again. The poor countries will suffer as if EUROPE IS HAVING AN AMAZING TIME right now. Europe will fall if it continues to isolate itself from Russia. Leave Africa out. Europeans are getting poorer by the day, some live worse lives than many Africans in Africa.
Stop comparing your country to Africa assuming you are somewhat better. Europe is going down down down, and when it does AFRICA WILL RAISE BECAUSE AFRICAS OPPRESSOR DICTATOR will be on its knees unable to wage wars, conflict terrorism on African soil nations people land. The theft will end as Africa China South America Russia Asia Middle East cooperative with mutual respect and as equals.
The question isn't "should" you isolate Russia, it's can you isolate Russia.
Thank u Duya !!! U r right : the question isn't "should we" but is "can we". And the answer is obvious : 'THEY CAN'T ISOLATE Russia , never, never !!!!!!!! Because "beggars have no choice" !!!! How can you isolate the one that feeds you with "his oil and gas " ??! How can a beggar isolate the one who is rich in plenty of commodities the beggar needs ???
On top, what is the cost of isolating russia. Oh, you isolate it - from the west. Next you know is that China and Russia are best buddies. And the US lost the whole east in the next cultural war. WELL Done - stupid has a name now.
It's more that "can the US force other countries to act against their own best interests and isolate Russia"
@@darkroses3479 Yes, that's the real issue here ... too bad they asked a moron like McFaul to the debate, he just wastes everyone's time with his Russiaphobia BS, not because Russia is scary, but because his country's power is waning and he will do any thing, tell any lie, to keep that from happening.
Should the rest of the world isolate US/UK for invading 20 countries in last 30 years?
What arrogance is that , the west think that can isolate Rusia? Wishfull thinking ! The westerners will isolate themself !
Yes that right.
Go ahead and isolate yourselves with that shit poor russia, surely y'all gonna enjoy it greatly, but after fact don't whine to west for support if or when they gonna squeeze you dry.
Asking should we isolate Russia is like the question "should we isolate our lungs from the rest of our bodies?". It's too Westerncentric to be sound.
Nice simile. And all too correct, you cannot isolate the most resource rich country in the world.
Is this even a valid question considering how we're still illiegally occupying Syria.
The Bulgarian fellow need to update his knowledge about no Russian gas pipeline to China. In fact; Russia delivered 10 bcm to China through the Power of Siberia pipeline, which was launched in late 2019 and will eventually flow 38 bcm a year. Once the Power of Siberia pipeline reaches its capacity, Russia could be delivering nearly 60 bcm to China. For Europe the game is over, and the 4-5 times higher priced US LNG prospect would be able to deliver only 20% of Europe needs. The million dollar question is how the EU getting cheap gas? At present, from nowhere. And this is the problem, guys like the Bulgarian fellow dominates the political sprectrum in the USA and in the EU.
Important factor in this matter is, most anglo-saxon countries with western Europe turn in into fasist dictatorships, like Canada see the truckers revolt or like the farmers uprise in Holland. Non of these western countries has democratic political system. The free world is led by an 80 years old seriously demented president. It is a joke folks.
The Bulgarian guy is the typical plank who ends up in the EU Parliament. Mostly dead from the neck up
Agree 100%. It’s a relief to see that there are educated and intelligent people out there. By the way the Strength of Siberia 2 is being built through Mongolia on the western part of China. I also don’t get why McFall carrying water for Navolniy. Navolniy, besides being a criminal, he’s also a CIA plant.
I wonder how many russians would rather have a Canadian "fasist" (sic) leader like Trudeau or the democratic, hmm, definitely fairly elected leader like Putin?
@@brinjoness3386 i am sure when your bank account and property would sized by a fasist dictator like Trudeau your opinion would be different ... do not forget a less evil is still evil ...
@@istvansipos6395 i doubt a "fasist" (sic) dictator sizes your property personally. Probably does what a fascist dictator does. Send some goons to just seize your property, they maybe size it up later.
Pathetic hypocritical demagoguery
Whether you Isolate or engage, there is a question and it is, are you ready to fulfill your obligations. For instance the Minsk agreement has obligations of parties are you ready to abide by the agreement?
Russia violated the budapest agreements in 2104 and violated misk II as well
@@DarkRoomAmbience can you please check your dates please
The US has shown that it's not interested in fulfilling it's obligations, that only other countries must follow treaties and agreements. The EU has shown that they will happily destroy their own economic health to make the US happy. The US UK EU has shown that they will happily starve the rest of the world to preserve US hegemony in the East.
@@DarkRoomAmbience The US has violated many agreements and international laws. So your point being?
@@DarkRoomAmbience mate, how can Russia violate Minsk 2 if Russia is not a side of the agreement? It’s an agreement between Ukraine and two breakaway states.
"Should we isolate Russia" ?
Are we live in different world or what? The question should be "Can we isolate Russia" ? And the answer is "NO! YOU CAN'T"
Let's be honest, the world has said no to the US UK EU attempts to force others to obey the sanctions. I think the rest of the world is very politely isolating the US UK EU.
You can't isolate the majority of the world's economy.
Sanctions has always been a part of western playbook.
This conflict wakes all country that their money is not safe even with Switzerland.
@@stevenmackintosh8160 The US is losing the petrodollar and also going the way of every other superpower in history. The US's major exports are dollars and war, and with the overthrowing of Western hegemony in the East, there is no need for dollars. We need to accept reality in the US and do whatever we can to soften the catastrophic economic landing we are face planting into.
@@darkroses3479 Sure. The West is always just about to collapse!
👍🏿🤣
The West is isolating itself. Most of the world, especially the Global South, supports Russia.
Wonder why
@@awpetersen5909 why should they isolate Russia?
@@Liboch Russia aggressively invaded Ukraine
@@awpetersen5909 the US also aggressively invaded Iraq and other nations, why the collective west didn't isolate the US?
@@Liboch Yes,you are right. And I don',t know why. But Germany had millions, who demonstrated against this war. And we didn't support it.
Russia cannot argue with this wrongdoing, though. It has grossly repeated this very wrong action abd now they cannot undo it. Generations of Ukrainians will not have connection with this country again. If Russia will usurpate Ukraine, they are not better than any other colonial dictator.
Lol funny.... From what i remember you tried isolating Russia...Well as we seen it didn't work well. Now on a serious note instead of talking about containment or Isolation you should instead learn to listen to Russia's concern, make some compromises and end the deranged policy of trying to encircle it militarily and limit its economic / political influence. As in first place this is the reason why we are in the situation we are today. Every geopolitical analysis based on RealPolitik predicted the outcome we are today in 2 decades ago and warned that the action of pressuring Russia in this way and forcing it in a junior partner position when it clearly isn't it would led to the unbalance of power we see today.
I am truly surprise there is even such a debate because the question "should we isolate Russia?" is clearly not an intelligent question? Isn't it obvious to all that to date Russia is far from being isolated by the rest of the world? How is the Collective West which constitute a mere 20% or less of the world's population able to isolate Russia? A more appropriate debate question should be, "Can we isolate Russia?"
So true Russian can't be isolated!
Well said dear 😊
Population is irrelevant. The west is still the majority of the worlds economy.
I can't believe the Russophobia; anyone who wishes bad on another people/country because of what their TV, social media, and "leaders" say without any context are hateful, ignorant of history, easily manipulated, and foolish. What goes around comes back around.
Ask yourself. What has Russia and Vladimir Putin done to harm America? Have they ever used a nuclear bomb on a country that already surrendered (Japan)? Have they ever funded Nazis? (2x) Have they ever carpet bombed Yugoslavians with depleted uranium? Do they have 759 military bases worldwide that keeps other countries from being free? No.
They've put up with 5 USA funded NATO expansions up to their borders. They've made it unequivocally clear since 2008 Bucharest summit: Ukraine will not join NATO. It is an existential security threat.
Yet USA made it a De facto NATO satellite state. Invested billions over 8 years.
Ridiculous. If only people knew they were funding ethno-nationalist neo Nazis. Again. Might as well start selling them Zyklon-B & IBM technology & oil & Ford vehicles again.
Context. The public needs context. This war didn't start this year. For 8 years the ethnic Russians in Donbass region have been killed and targeted by the Ukrainian Neo Nazis commiting genocide. 14, 000 people killed.
Zelensky promised to sign the Minsk Agreements when elected in 2018. To stop the war. Azov/Right Sect/Aidar threatened to hang him for being a traitor. That's why he isn't a free agent. It's BS lies that they are the minority. 60% of the public supports them. The Ukrainian military officially integrated numerous radicalized "volunteer batallions". There are Nationalist neo Nazis in the military, private sector, public sector, deeply embedded in the government. That's how anti-russian language bans were passed into law.
Slava Ukraini. "Glory to Ukraine" "Ukraine above all" "Death to the enemies" "Glory to the heroes".
This is going to cause MORE civil unrest in Western countries where the "leaders" are already unpopular, despised, and have low public support. Usually, war improves polling numbers yet this time it is not working. Biden administration is the worst in American history. Trudeau Ca s t ro the Canadian dictator along with other NATO leaders do NOT represent the people.
The common working class people are NOT going along with the Pro-War agenda. Even with the censorship we know that in 2014 the USA government funded a coup to overthrow the legally elected government. Since 2014 NATO has been training Ukrainian forces.
Putin is ending the war. Hard to hear but BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa) will always support Russia.
So will ordinary people who can see through the propaganda.
Ask the Russsian oligarch's how they're doing not being able to access their billions in stolen money.
My vote is for the “no” we should not isolate Russia.
Isolating Russia you will be isolating yourself, wherever you live?
@@redwine2664 exactly comrade.
Western workd is already isolated f
rom The rest of the world. Poeple donot forget easly the past and what the west has done and still doing.
So you must live russia
@@dennismendez947 your poor brain must have really struggled to come up with that sick burn. Mendez
Did I miss the debate about isolation of the US & UK after the Iraq war? The arrogance of the topic is amazing
Seriously, why does it matter to most of the world if Ukraine is dominated by Russia? This was the status of Ukraine for 70 years until the end of the Cold War. Nobody cared. Ukraine is not worth blowing up the world economy or risking a nuclear conflict.
When YOU are the target of Russian aggression, I'll post your comment back to you. DERP
Russia is too insignificant to blow world economy and china not gonna do it for them, what nuclear conflict ? Shity russian army was not able to defend ukraine in any significant way conventionaly, usage of nuclear weapons is redline which will end up with western involvement they don't want.
What is between Iraq and Afghanistan? Those wars had more to do with Russia. If Ukraine was dominated like you say...why must they invade? Unless Putin wishes himself and all his fellow Russians to die there is no chance of nuclear conflict. We care because it would give Russia more power over two of the most important resources Energy and Food. Do you believe the world would be better off? The world economy will not collapse because of the GDP of New York state disappearing. Russia was less than that before the war.
@@Kenneth_James idiotic response! Russian GDP is based on material things not a typical western casino GDP that includes bankers and lawyers salaries. You obviously know little about real world economics. What the hell has Russia got to do with the illegal invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan?
@@geoffpj1 Western GDP is to a large extent based on human capital and successfully so, nothing casino about it, go study basic economics.
THE QUESTION IS : WHO ARE WE TO ISOLATE RUSSIA WHILE THE ENTIRE WORLD IS TIRED OF OUR ARROGANCE ?
Who are you? You’re speaking on behalf of the world and it doesn’t seem to me like the ‘ entire world ‘ is tired of ‘our arrogance’ and you think you speak on behalf of the world?
@@paulbarclay4114 wtf are you on about.? Maybe it’s time you
Hi tail it to Russia or China 🤔.?
@@paulbarclay4114 You’re far from pro American, it’s hilarious watching all you dummies criticising the west and supporting Russia all while living comfortably in the west. We’re far from perfect but that’s what makes our society and democracy so great and powerful and why places like Russia and China are so terrified of democracy, because it’s proven over thousands of years to work where as their systems have been around for a drop in the ocean in terms of history and it’s proven nothing other than that it’s a failing system. Corruption has run rampant in the US in the last 30years but make no mistake about what the better system is
@@fuzzy5610 drag Queen
So true
"Winter is coming for Europe"
They’ll be fine
USA should be isolated. No reason to isolate Russia and by the way, it is impossible anyway due to it´s extreem size and other big allyes... USA is making troubles to Europe!!!
To víš, že jo ty ruskej švábe 😀
Russia invaded its neighbour. Whatever America has done, you have to admit it is nothing compared to that.
@@Kavafy I do not agree. Russia acted to protect soverign countries like Donetsk against attacks done by Ukraine. USA´s democracy world tour so far - in other words: List of countries bombed by evil USA: Korean and China 1950- 1953 Guatemala 1957 Indonesia 1958 Cuba 1959-1961 Guatemala 1960 Congo 1964 Laos 1964- 1973 Vietnam 1961- 1973 Cambodia 1969-1970 Guatemala 1967- 1969 Grenada 1983 Lebanon 1983-1984 (Both Lebanese and Syrians targeted) Libya 1986 Elsavador 1980 Nicaragua 1980 Iran 1987 Panama 1989 Iraq 1981( P. gulf) Kuwait 1991 Somalia 1993 Bosnia 1994-1995 Sudan 1998 Afghanistan 1998 Yugoslavia 1999 Yemen 2002 Iraq 1991-2003 ( US and UK on regular basis) Iraq 2003-2015 Afghanistan 2001-2015 Pakistan 2007-2015 Somalia 2007-8 and 2011 Yemen 2009 and 2011 Libya 2011 and 2015 Syria 2014- 2015
Big but no people power to develop more. It is only size but Russians are not develop.
@@Kavafy lol the U$ has done so much worse than that! since forever and still! they've invaded and overthrown so many ppl across the globe, including their neighbors! banana wars, the lnvasion and occupation of Hawaii and Peurtorico, the , still occupying suria, turned Llbya into slave market when it was richest country in afrlca,. destroyed lraq and created lsls..
operati0n condor, all the coups and training/armlng extremists in nicaragua, el salvador, afghan, and chechnia (and now ukralne). funding war lords in chlna's civl war to make fortunes off of narc0tics emplres, like roosevelt and forbes did? (hi john kerry, search "john kerry syrla tapes"). the atr0cities in Vletnam and Corea? the phillipines and indonesia? so many more. stuff so far beyond. they did it in K0rea and vietnam, laos and camb0dia, phillipines and m.urder of millions in Ind0nesia from west-backed fasclsts. and more. the illegal starvation sanctions on Cuba and venezuela and afghan. starved tens o thousands of afghan kids
Plus after ww2, hltler's chief of staff was chair of military of n4t0. the U$ hired all the n*zis after the war into W. German institutions and their coalitions, and continued their mission and wr0-te propganda history books. walter hallstein, Franz Halder, Reinhrd gelehn, klaus 'butcher of lyon' barbie, and so many more.
germany lost the war, but the n*zis won, because the U$A, UK, and fledgeling lsrael continued it and hired the n*zis and their collaborators in eur0pe as well as the japanese fsclsts to help them subjugate and c0lonize andd butcher ppl in k0rea and vietnam.
You're right they're not comparable. compared to U$ russla is a fluffy kitten. the U$A is the biggest most vi0lent emplre in the history of the world
The moderator interestingly begins by speaking about American sacrifices made during WW2 with 0 mention of the Russian sacrifice of 20 million people killed (basically the reason why they take their own security so seriously regarding the Ukraine)... This was not a good faith discussion about how to punish bad actors on the world stage as one of debater was a member of the US deep state. This was a silly discussion of what is the best strategy to preserve American Hegemony and not make Europe too poor in the process.
The 'deep state'? What asylum did you escape from?
100% 👍🏻
Interestingly you don't mention Stalin's support of Hitler (to weaken the west) in the beginning nor the massive help the soviets got through America.
@@huhummmmmmm He also didn't mention how USA supported both sides to make sure they go to war. He also didn't mention how we waited until soviets grinded the germans to decide who's side we will be on. As for stalin, the soviets, which includes many ethnicities, achieved the victory despite Stalin's cruelty.
Russia had no choice in the matter. The US absolutely did have a choice, and still made the sacrifice.
Russia also played a major role in creating the situation.
Why should we do so? Why are we doing this? Why should we do it for someone else? What is the benefit for us? Turning your back to your family for a friend who always treated as a subordinate is simply not wise
Bruh what are you talking about?
These people feel they are soo high in morals
Russia should just cut them all off
if you are going to isolate someone you better be sure he has nothing you may want or need or you are isolating yourself from those resources
It's gonna be hard to isolate Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, OPEC, BRICS, Africa, and South America (and a few others who aren't yet ready to announce their intentions). Even several OPEC members are considering changing camps. I believe that the US efforts to isolate Russia will end up with the US isolating itself from the whole world.
This is a stupid question that should not even be asked. How can you isolate the largest country in the world with the most resources in the world and 2nd largest military in the world.
Short of World War III there are no other options. The west is isolating itself and we will find out very soon how stupid the western leaders are. Europe is now in crisis. US has the worst inflation since the 1970s. Russia is not doing great either but it has everything it needs to survive - energy, food, talented people, etc.
Lol
The right question for the debate would be why we cannot isolate Russia.
A better comment should be that Russia has already walked out and how do you get her back? What a waste of time debate!
How do USA have such a ambassador in macful speaking like a fool without thinking
The US state department has turned itself into a lunatic asylum. Most people there are essentially political fundamentalists (i.e. Neoconservatives / Neoliberals) that believe the US is the ruler of earth and everyone else on the planet has to follow US dictates. These people have lost touch with reality a long time ago.
next debate: should we stop shitting?
as we all know, if we stop shitting, we would save a lot of paper not to wipe our asses.
US UK and Europe isolate but we cannot isolate it why Russia what about US invaded libya Iraq syria Somalia nothing happened this is double stand we are not going to isolate russai
Double standard or not russia is hostile regime and is going to be fucked by west and no shitposting about Libiya going to change that, right now russia is in isolation and will be even more isolated in future, 3rd world consent isn't required to enforce it.
Your problem is that you really can’t isolate Russia. Just count the number of countries not going along with the sanctions. And to mention the struggle against nazism during WW2 and to now send weapons to their ancestors in Ukraine.
Isolation a country does not mean that one sets up walls but more about not buying oil , instead investing in non fossil fuel in once own country , economy disengagement with government owned companies and more strickt rules for investors from totalitarian regimes….
The real question is, can specifically the West really isolate Russia when the rest of the world doesn't? And by the standards of the West, why wasn't America isolated for invading Iraq?
UN voting post-Ukraine invasion would disagree with you, as it wasn't only "the West" disagreeing, or at best abstaining from disagreeing with russia. Also, whataboutism doesn't help your argument at all, especially not when the two cases are vastly different on many key points.
@@rafflesmaos UN voting is irrelevant to substantive action. The vast majority of the world hasn't done a thing to 'isolate' Russia.
And it is not whataboutism because I have never defended Russia's invasion of Ukraine. I have merely pointed out hypocrisy, because an illegal invasion based on a gigantic lie is certainly worth mentioning. Overusing a word you learned from Last Week Tonight with John Oliver won't absolve you of this fact.
@@unifieddynasty Whataboutism was a basic term I learned in debate class back in high school - I don't need a TV show to educate me, thanks. You're missing that there is no hypocrisy, because again, the two are completely different, and were handled completely differently. You might as well say, as a really basic analogy, that just because a thief and a murderer both commit crimes, it's hypocritical to want harsher punishment for the latter while ignoring the former. Rather, it's perfectly normal to seek harsh punishment for far greater injustices.
Removal of russia from the human rights council is one of the many ways that they are being isolated. While actions speak louder than words, inaction also speaks louder than words, and lack of express support for russia such as military and financial aid during the war, is a position enforced by the majority of the world.
@@rafflesmaos You may want to revisit your high school studies then, because, again, you completely misused the term 'whataboutism'.
There certainly is hypocrisy, and your downplaying of very similar crimes committed by the West is certainly not a good look for those of your moralizing variety.
"There is a reason that most countries polled in December 2013 by Gallup called the United States the greatest threat to peace in the world, and why Pew found that viewpoint increased in 2017.
But it is a reason that eludes that strain of U.S. academia that first defines war as something that nations and groups other than the United States do, and then concludes that war has nearly vanished from the earth.
Since World War II, during a supposed golden age of peace, the United States military has killed or helped kill some 20 million people, overthrown at least 36 governments, interfered in at least 85 foreign elections, attempted to assassinate over 50 foreign leaders, and dropped bombs on people in over 30 countries. The United States is responsible for the deaths of 5 million people in Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia, and over 1 million just since 2003 in Iraq.
Since 2001, the United States has been systematically destroying a region of the globe, bombing Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Libya, Somalia, Yemen, and Syria, not to mention the Philippines. The United States has “special forces” operating in two-thirds of the world’s countries and non-special forces in three-quarters of them.
The U.S. government provides weapons, military training, and/or military funding to almost every dictatorship and oppressive government on earth." - David Swanson
For starters. I'll be happy to expound on each and every one of the aforementioned, upon your request.
Moreover, again, everything you have said is irrelevant to substantive action. Do you really think removing Russia from the UN human rights council matters in the slightest? Do you think countries not providing military or financial aid to help Russia fight the war matters in the slightest? Do you seriously think that "inaction", aka the overwhelming status quo, counts as "isolation"? Come now, I hope we're trying to have an honest conversation here.
@@unifieddynasty Again, it's not hypocrisy because it cannot be compared like to like. Your assertion of "very similar crimes" is not supported by evidence. If you want to actually have an honest discussion, I would start there first and foremost, but is that really a discussion that you want to have?
Also, am I having a discussion with you, or with David Swanson?
Putin has already told Europe, Gazprom will never again commit to supplying Europe with the same amount of gas again. Max 20% of former delivery's. Gazprom has already set its targets for its future delivery's from 2024 East. It is Europe that is isolated.
You can't isolate Russia. The whole world doesn't agree with you!
For all intents and purposes, of small countries like Peru or Australia want to trade with Russia it is of no consequence. If poor countries (here we mean large countries not willing to pay high prices) like India or China it's of no benefit.
Russia can only get good prices from Western markets.
Ask the Russian oligarch's how they're handling their stolen money not being accessible from financial institutions due to them being isolated by US.
You cant isolate Russia , Europe lost . Europe is weak no fuel no metals no food nothing...
Those who take trying to isolate such huge and important country are already overstrained.
As George Galloway said about the government's Russia policy, "We've managed to lift up a very heavy stone only to drop it on our foot"
I think the world would be better off isolating the USA & UK then we might have peace!
Usa should be isolated jong time ago ,they destroyed many people life, destroyed many cantryes and now plays angels
Vlad attacked Ukraine increasing prices for EVERYBODY.. That is the 'peace' you're advocating for? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
@@robthompson3937 the sanctions did that not the fact Russia attacked Ukraine, are you aware that Ukraine has been attacking the Donbas since 2014 and that the USA was responsible for the coup at that time? This is when the problems mainly started!
That should have happened many years ago.
@@robthompson3937 good old peace prize winner Obama had the brilliant idea to let the regime change coup proceed in UKraine in 2014. Funny that you are totally OK with that illegal act and upset when Russia responds to US aggression at its border. Fun fact: The US sponsored regime chage coup in Ukraine violated not only Ukraine's sovereignty but also international law (i.e. 1975 Helsinki Accords). And yes the US signed that document as well.
These so called isolation suporters are an idealists, not a pragmatists. Thats why their commitments had failed.
Rather fanatics. To think that McFaul was our ambassador to Russia is mindblowing. He's always been a Russophobe of the first magnitude and our president considered him to be the best man for the post. What was he thinking? Something tells me many people in the State Department have only wanted a war with Russia since 2008, when we proposed Ukraine and Georgia to join NATO.
@@farerolobos9382 , he had blinded himself with his arragoncy attitude. His dellusion of absolute containing russia is gone from idealism to religion's lunatic. He is a very dangerous for life of american soldiers and for the global.
@@mikeandersson7962 Agreed.
idealists? you mean EGOISTS= want everything for themselves
@@worthit4493 , yes, in other mean by idealistic .
The right video title should be -- we tried to isolate Russia and failed.
Now we have to somehow gloss over our failure. 😁
Our failure Russia economy has collapsed people starving almost 100 per cent unemployed only jobs are grave diggers n priests so ur all taking shit wot happened last winter to Europe wen pipelines cut all tell you sweet nothing putin idea world can't live without Russia was blown apart it's backfired and who wants deal with serial liar nobodynin there right mind I say fuck Russia they brought this on themselves murdered thousands Ukrainians in streets raised city's n Town nd villages to ground and idiots want debate with them fuk them hope kremlin gets raised to ground with all prices inside at time u can't negotiate with madness and I believe treat those same way treat us u can't debate with murderous dictator who's willing millions own people to die for his never ending goals isolate them stop importing stuff to them I mean nothing at all Russia needs rid putin regime n navaldy out jail along with people jailed for protesting have fair n free elections then only then Russia will be different country altogether putin has single handed set country back 50 years with his dictator policy's bomb shit out his palaces raise them to ground putin is riches man in worldnwotth hundreds billions stolen from Russian people only thing despot interested in is money he stolen from military economy budgets since gotnin power navaldy jailed because he had guts to tell putin about his systematic corruption which continues to this day so fuck them hope n pray Ukraine bombs fuck out putins assets n kremlin all goverment buildings leaves Moscow burning to ground
i think russia has isolated the US. so it doesnt really matter.
And more countries are going to be
Joining BRICS.
The uss is isolating themselves hahahaha
@@jeanchartrand2519 , not just BRICS+, but also SCO, RCEP, ASEAN, etc.
They haven’t
Then what? Just withdraw NATO and restore relationship with Russia on common ground. That's diplomacy. And this time don't do it verbatim. Write it down on a binding treaty enforceable by a world organisation like the United Nation. If the world isolates somone unanimously, then isolation works, not when the democratic bully of the world l(we, the US) impose this sanction through proxy nations.
The arrogance of these people is astounding .
That is what decades of propaganda and conditioning gets you. People that are totally out of touch with reality.
Among all those participants , Emma is the smartest one and deserves much credit to her logical reasoning !!!!!
I agree!
Ovaj Bugarin laze evropske naroda. Zasto je srbija imala sankcije a NATO je okupirao njenu territories Kosovo, a trazi da Russia sankcionise za Krim zato sto je vratila svoju teritoriju.
She thinks like a mother would.
Yes. Emma Ashford is Good. Surprising even stunning that she holds this despite being from Atlantic Council, which is obsessed with anti-Russian agenda. Jonathan Shaende.. very poorly selected to articulate the No case. Pompous. No line of argument. No preparation. Just shooting his mouth off incoherently. Shaende has no idea of the long term structural problems which threaten Russia gravely. Difficult to believe he is an economist.
Debating has become so obscure that I have heard the word in us news media only in *presidential debates*
We isolate? The arrogance....
Michael mcFaul is one of the biggest reasons why we are even in this mess, why is his opinion even matters?
The issue I have with the Bulgarian speaker is he mentioned we should follow the "rule Based ordered", which basically is "American dictatorship" only acknowledged by 7 countries (their allies), we already have a set of international rule or law, it's the UN or UN CHARTERS which is already signed on by 194 countries including the above said 7 allied nations ,why create another set of rules not acknowledged by 187 countries globally, it's totally LUDICROUS
Thank you. I couldn’t have said it better myself.
Bulgaria just shills for its Western masters. They have no independent policies.
Politician can lie with a straight face. No shame, no moral, and no legal repercussions. In other words, they are professional liars.
That is no question because the whole world , well the normal part is already isolated usa and the vassals of them . Next !?
The question is who is to demand the 85% isolates Russia?
America, its house boy Britain and America vassals form 15% of the world it can isolated itself and for sure should.
The 85% wouldn't even realise that somewhow the 15% continued to exist as some sort of over rated museum? 85% will be too busy enjoying life, developing growing creating in mutual respect, win win cooperation and harmony. The 15% can do whatever it wants.
The world would be a much better place of that 15% isolated itself from the rest of the world!
Just some of my thoughts:
(1) Clearly, the team that argued "No" won; they were more effective at swaying those undecided to their point of view.
However, of note is that 65% of the audience already had preconceived bias on the question and remains unswayed.
I fear that is reflective of Europe as a whole.
(2) I guess the pope spoke for most Europeans when he said that Russia was wrong to invade, but the collective West also must bear blame for provoking Russia by ignoring Russia's concern on NATO expansion, especially since USSR was given assurance NATO will not expand.
(3)It seems to be a Europe issue, but the effects of inflation and food shortages are felt worldwide with poorer countries suffering the most.
(4) My view is simply based on the fact that Europe and Russia are neighbours on the same continent, they need to learn to live together. Simplistic view, yes, but is most practical. The world is undergoing climate change that needs people of all nations to work together. Hope Europeans and Russians can overcome their differences soon.
Peace to all.
That is what you got from it? I think you may be suffering from a preconceived bias towards an answer of No.
Best comment ever!
Agreed.
That said. Who won in a debate is largely irrelevant, as debates don’t actually test the merit of an Idea, so much as the talent and memory of the Debaters.
Something I wish more people understood about debates.
PS:
The invasion has nothing at all to do with NATO, and everything to do with the recently discovered and very massive natural gas deposits in eastern Ukraine.
Material and energy exports are how the Oligarchs buy their yachts and mansions. And they understood that Ukraine would soon put them out of the European market anyways, so they are trying to steal eastern Ukraine.
I have very sound convictions formed while following this issue for 30 years. They are not likely to be swayed by anyone's debating gimmicks. In your view does that constitute a "bias"?
As of today, Oct 30, 2022 Europe is suffering from extreme high inflation, cost of living is going thru' the roof, energy cost had skyrocketed to highest price in 40 yrs, many industries are shutting dwn, and social unrest and political unrising erupted everywhere in Europe. That's the price of sanctions on Russia and isolation of Russia. Not to mention, inflation in US had rose to almost 10% more than 40 yrs causing massive economic pains to American public. The saddest part, many people will die during winter bcos of shortage of gas for heat.
Anti-Russian phobia is extremely strong and deeply indoctrinated in the west. Not surprise the debate will NOT undo that. Majority have a bias anti-Russia position. Only very painful economic effects of isolation of Russia will make the western population wake up. Nothing else will. Today, many countries like China, Russia, Vietnam, S.Korea, Japan, Brazil, S.Africa, Latin America, and global south are dumping US$. If you don't know why, God bless you. You need help badly. 😁😁
A group of bullies trying to delude what they can or cannot do with Russia. Try understanding your own western centric faults of always positioning yourselves as high & almighty, always right & the rest who disagrees are bad. Farcical arguments.
👍👍🇵🇱🇷🇺
The excellent comment👌👌👌
Russia is the one bullying Ukraine though.
@@DiogoJ1 That’s the price to pay to act as a proxy government … & an illegitimate coup government at that as well.
@@aforeignchinese1385 And that's the price we should proudly pay to oppose Russia.
It wasn't illegitimate. Illegitimate was the puppet government that licked Russia's boots. Also since Zelensky was been elected in 2019, that makes the government legitimate even if it wasn't before.
In this world we all need each other
West can only isolate itself but it cannot isolate Russia.
1989 -US economy was 55% of world economy
2022 US economy is 33% of worlds economy.
West is on the declune and it will not be able to maintain unipolarity.
"2022 US economy is 33% of worlds economy."
In Purchasing Power Parity (PPP) the share is different.
@@piotrczubryt1111 yes, and all Fiet/paper worth nothing it seems.
Now try that with all the west combined,and even if we suppose there is decline, even shitty regional power russia with tiny economy was able to disrupt periphery of europe to some extent , now think what west would be capable of doing globaly, and it wouldn't be a pleasant prospect to most hostile powers.
US is below 25% of world GDP. And China is 20%.
Do this debate in February 2023.Tempers will be cooler.Traffic will be lighter and Industrial noises will be subdued.
West is dying forget about isolating Russia it is faring better.
I always objected to the use of the word "intelligence" in the title of these debates, we rarely see any.
As a south asian i say their iq must be 2 0r 3 point 😂😂😂😂😂
Jai Hinduja. We Indians are smartest people on earth. We stay on side with the Raj of 5Eyes and at the same time, reap enormous profits re-selling gas quite cheaply to the Europeans especially the Germans
Russophobia is out of this planet, maybe you should make that your next subject to look into..
At your own peril. Russia is not a small market so a permanent hole in EU economy. Trade is a win-win or lose-lose situation, nothing in-between. Further a permanent budget allocation to military spending against Russia
Russia is a country with about 145 million inhabitants, the majority of which have no real purchasing power. Russia can sell mostly raw materials and oil and gas! So, Russia in not an important market and it is in fact a small market!
@@tombrunila2695 Points you make are simply irrelevant. We live in a globalised world which mean small grain of rice can tip the scale. Last year the entire supply chain stumble because of blockade in the Suez canal.
@@johnmaris1582 and that had nothing to do with Russia. Russia is a small insignificant economy, it has only raw materials for sale! It is totally dependent on importing high tech. Russia can't cut the supply lines to Western countries because Russia doesn't have the needed geography and the navy to do it!
No, China is NOT going to endanger its relationship with Western countries by supplying Russia with modern high tech. Russia is such a small business partner and market for China. China has also no intention of becoming dependent on Russian oil and gas. China will make Russia dependent on China as the only buyer of Russia gas.
is Russia isolated? only US colonies and vassals voted with US, which is less than 50. the other 150 voted no.
Bulgarian guy is such a comic . You got your gas cut off because you wouldn't pay in rubles..brave and funny.. they are not obligated to sell you gas at your terms. Try buy from US at 3 times the price
It's clear that most of the commenters didn't watch the debate 🙂
My channel gives you a perspective that doesn't align with the US-gov't narrative. Hope you drop by.
Already following you from some time love your content man keep the good work.
Why the heck was this channel recommended to me. It tells a lot about a person and/or country that they even think they have the right to isolate anyone. Who is united states to isolate Russia, Venezuela, Cuba, Iraq, China, etc..... United States is the country that screams free trade, free market but the moment a situation occurs in which trade does not include them, they immediately get hostile. USA is even trying to tell Europe whom to buy their oil from. USA is a hypocritical nation. P.S. condeming a Naiton, does not mean condeming their people. USA politicians and the globalist they work for are evil.
Well said Drew.
America is by far the worst offender. Where was the world to slap sections on America when they illegally invaded Iraq and many other countries.
The mighty usa will soon implode. They start wars for financial gains.
I'm an American and I'm saying the same things as you are.
God bless you
"USA is even trying to tell Europe whom to buy their oil from.
USA and Europe interests are not the same. USA (together with Canada) has a lot of untapped resources, Europe does not.
Iran say US is the Head Satan of the West. No ???
What about isolated USA?
That would be stupid
Finally a debate that makes sense and people coming to dialog.
I am truly surprise there is even such a debate
My advice for warmongers in US they should change their aggressive foreign policy, stopping giving countries all over earth military bases and alliances, to investments in infrastructures like China, to keep some places in the future world as they belong, but if they continue has now only promoting chaos and violences , revolutions they are the only one will be isolated in the world…
Was this McFaul man not the one who in a debate with Pro. Mesheimer said America lies?
yes, he also said that Hitler never killed his own people or used chemical weapons in a war (when referring to a Russian 'chemical attack' that turned out to be dust allergies.)
@@RetiredInThailand and am suppose to vote base on what this crook tells me?
@@felixkommey2505 gawd, I hope not ;-)
No wonder he's not our ambassador anymore... Clearly wasn't up to the job
Both sides arguments are wrong though non isolation is the correct method. Though still framed this badly with propaganda talking points.
I am commenting as I watch the debate so forgive me. Mike McFaul really us an idiot. The German contract with Russia is cheap gas. Around 460 euros/1000m3. The current market price is well over 1000 euros/1000m3. Its in Russia's interest to break that contract which they are committed to for another 10 years.
"Mike McFaul is really is an idiot." That's another part of the problem: the US government failed to select proper diplomats. The guy tried to support an anti-Putin coup and was effectively kicked out having been pouring out his grief in Twitter ever since.
"They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there."
Aylat shaket, Israeli minister.
Show me a similar genocidal maniacs from Russian cabinet. Just one.
Kbv.
Israel IS the OG terrorist state. They will eventually pay the ultimate price for their deadly malfeasence.
I love the "we" in the description of this video. Whom this may be in reference to?
The world is round and we are all connected and interdependent to one another. Diplomacy should always try at all cost before war or sanction is considered. Isolation only leads to more conflicts and will not effective either short or long term.
An American war
West only respect their ownself sheep 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
47 US lead countries sanctioned Russia and 150 didn’t. Who’s isolated?
Ha yes. 47 of the worlds largest and most successful economies, vs mostly a bunch of piss poor countries that can’t afford to sanction Russia, and don’t make a big enough impact to matter anyways.
The question whether US should or shouldn’t but actually US already did but failed to isolate Russia. It just show the waning hegemony of US.
36:53 at the end of the day
do whatever the fuch you want
no one cares
you want to be the boss of the world
pay the price .... and by god this time the price is going to be very high
you may want to be reagan but Russia does not want to be gorbachev
the question is, how the west can get out of the isolation?
Does these people actually know what the Americans are doing/meddling around the globe at present.
Bulgaria MP said Russia LNG infrastructure is primitive/underdeveloped, so Russia CANNOT sell oil to other countries except to Europe."😁😁👎👎
He is living under a rock. Russia can even export to India, China, Saudi Arabia and Brazil!!
With climate change and everything we might end up having to beg Russia for a bowl of porridge
Climate change isn’t going to improve things for Russia in the way that you might think.
They are looking at centuries of nasty muck, before any of their frozen tundra would have any value. And that is with careful management. Something we know that Russians just aren’t capable of in their current state.
'Pls May I have another' Lol
A question I felt didn't get asked was: When would you change your mind. It sounded like both had well thought out positions that was never asked.
We got their arguments for their position but not the arguments for when they would change their mind on their position.
You and which army can do this effectively?
How would you define "isolation" in this context?
You are just 0.1 present of the population of the world,how can few of you isolate a great country like Russia?
Such a brilliant idea to isolate a single instance of isolation for discussion like no one else remembers ever being isolated and those who have not yet been isolated feel confident of never being isolated.
FUK’U AmeriKKKan political AH!” 💀🦇💀🦍💀☢️💀
Search . ' Ukraine Debate NOT Allowed On American TV '
@@rezakarampour6286 What's to debate? Russia invaded a sovereign nation while Russia 1 is openly advocating genocide. Are you pro-genocide? (Just in case you want to mention Donbas - 25 civilian victims in 2021 without clear evidence on whether RF or UA forces are responsible is not genocide.)
Watch . ' Disappeared Video Proving US Involement in Ukraine Coup '
@@StrawHat83 Look it up . ' They are Hiding the Truth in Ukraine '
Question is redundant, they don't even have the means to isolate neither RU or CN.
When "maybe" is in an discusion like here with these distinguished gentlemans its a waste of time to listen them . Just sizzling no meat .