Why French Cars Are Not Sold In The US
Vložit
- čas přidán 30. 11. 2023
- I've done some digging, so let me ramble about why I think Renault, Peugeot, and Citroën failed in America. Sorry I sound weird in this one. Allergies are killing me.
Socials
Audiobook Channel / @theratmanbobreads
Music Channel / @ratmanbobmusic
/ theratmanbob (mostly rat pictures and my attempts at photography)
/ theratmanbob
Song list
1. Symphonie Fantastique, Op. 14 - 5 Dreams of a Witches' Sabbath
2. Préludes, Book 2 - VI. General Lavine eccentric
3. Menuet antique
4. Sonatine, No. 1, Complete
5. Pavane for a Dead Princess
#foreigncars #france #america - Auta a dopravní prostředky
The real reason we don't drive French cars is because Columbo drove one and we were all afraid to try to match his style.
“One last thing”
No one can match up to Columbo
This is an epic comment
U cant drivr manual😂😂😂😂
Don't forget the Mentalist and his sweet Citroen DS.
Fun fact: Renault buying into AMC also got the parent company in trouble with the government, because they produced the AM General Hummer for the military. The DOD requires that companies selling vehicles to the military, with very few exceptions, must be American companies. They ended up having to sell AM General off, which was not good for AMC/Renault.
The rule is that the company can't be owned by a foreign government. Renault was owned by the French government at the time. Ally or not, that was a no-no, and AM General had to be sold.
We in the US have a few French cars in disguise. The Nissan Versa was a reskinned Renault Clio.
And now, under Stellantis, Jeep is going to sell reskinned Peugeots.
@@VigilanteAgumontrue, here in Brazil, Peugeot recently rebadged a few FIA Chrysler Carrier Products, like the Citroën Jump and the Fiat Fiorino as the Peugeot Partner and Partner Rapid, and I think in Europe, Fiat rebadged the Citroën Ami as their new EV Topolino Mini Car
And the Versa doesn't have a good reputation.
@@JohnSmith-wx9wj nissan sentra is french too LOL
My first car was a Versa! Those things do NOT age well in Upstate NY. Surprisingly they are decently capable in the US, well able to get above 65mph (NYS speed limi, I took mine to 120!) I would've preferred a manual diesel over my four speed petrol version. Very goofy car
its a great day when you find a amazing obscure youtuber
Yes
yes sir!
I remember growing up and seeing the odd Renault or pugeot in the late 80s and early 90s. It's too bad too French cars are quirky but I feel like we missed out in the US especially on the 90s citroen models.
I would love to have a Renault Clio V6
Other than the XM which was an 80s design, 90s Citroens were mostly pants; humdrum and boring. The Xantia and Xsara were sort of good cars but they were pretty dull and the early C models sucked.
I did go out with a French girl who had a zx and like all French people drove the nuts off it. It was a very fast car but mainly cos the owner was nuts. I think it has one straight panel.
It's really a great car with a V6 engine. I think it would fit on the highways in the United States. That's why you can get it. 😊❤@@TheRatManBob
I was a huge fan of top gear when I was younger, and I was always so confused why they would talk about the French brands so often when I had never seen one. Later in my life, while visiting the Dominican Republic, I finally saw my first Citron, probably at the age of 18 or 19. I was so hyped, I remember my brother was with me and I struggled to explain how rare french cars are, but he didn't really care.
I had a similar experience in the Caribbean. I was so stoked to see the equivalent of American daily drivers because of top gear.
French cars are very popular in entire Europe, Brazil, Argentina and Uruguay.
I saw an old Citroen 2 CV in America It was so rare that I took a picture of it.
The "Renault Nissan Mitsubishi Alliance" sounds like the Titanic after two hours of sailing the open Atlantic ocean.
My dad has a Citroën 2CV that he has replaced a lot of old parts and improved the engine on. It is a brilliant car to ride on bumpy roads or fun small roads with a lot of twists and turns. It is not something that is enjoyable to ride on the Autobahn or bigger highways, and it has to stay in the garage during winter. It is a car that is perfect if you like weird cars that you can work on yourself and ride with the roof down in the summers. I totally understand why it was not suited for America and it's interesting use of space.
My brain lore is that french cars always smelled so people didnt buy them
They didn’t shave their legs and smoked as well.
Really? Does your whole nation operate on this 'brain lore'?
In my 35 years, I’ve seen 3 or 4 French cars driving around on random streets in the US.
Theoretically there is 1 french "car" that have been selling in America for years now and i mean the Ram Promaster. It was born from a Fiat-Peugeot-Citroen cooperation and rebadge Ram in the Us. In the future Fiat will import the new promaster city which is based on a Peugeot and Citroen platform.
I hope that, with this union, the bring to you guys some of the good Fiat stuff all together with Citroën and Peugeot, y'all have been missing up a lot with Fiat here on South and Central America.
But the Promaster is mostly Fiat and it’s the descendent of the Fiat vans and trucks of years ago. I think they were called Pongos or something. They were strange, front drive, diesel with a 5 speed manual transmission. The odd thing was it was a column shift transmission. When we needed “low profile” vehicles we’d get VW Transporters or the Fiats. We also had a Mercedes D309 bus with a armor package on it. The dam thing was over GVW before we added people, luggage and fuel. Ah yes the joys of being an American GI in Greece in the 80’s
@@fk4515 psa peugeot Citroën sold to fiat not fiat sold to psa, thank you.
@@Marius-jg6slwell that was one of those merger deals, sometimes they’re not real clear who was the merger and who was the mergee. Like Chrysler and Daimler Benz was supposed to be a “merger of equals”, that lasted until Chrysler started loosing money then Daimler started acting like the new owners (oops, boy I hate it when that happens)
@@gymusenoh we’ve had Fiat, Peugeot and Citroens but in small quantities, we didn’t want to have too much fun after all
It's simple the french automakers came to the US without a strategy. They tried to hawk a french product even people in france didn't want. Renault nearly went bankrupt
Simply put, the French cars just didn't really fit the US market. Here in Europe however, they're everywhere. Peugeot has a solid lineup currently, Citroen has DS as the luxury division which has some pretty good cars and Renault is also pretty successful. Here in Greece Clios, Meganes, Captures, 308s, C4s and 3008s are all very popular as well as older models. My father alone has owned 3 Citroens, first a 2CV he still has, then a BX and then a Xanthia.
There is an unofficial embargo
Your dad had great tastes in cars. I'm guessing he was a fan of pneumatic suspension.
@@benoitbvg2888 yes, huge one.
Watching this at .75 speed is actually kinda nice.
Makes him sound drunk lol.
My grandfather bought my dad a brand new vehicle when he graduated high school in 1980. He was given the choice between a Le Car, a Celica and a Cavalier since those were the only manufacturers selling in his town. He choose the worst one and wound up getting a Plymouth reliant by 84.
What was the worst one
@@baronvonjo1929probably lecar lol
Celica still running
I live in Arizona. We get some mid 2000’s Renaults and Citroën’s driving around from Senora, Mexico.
Found this channel on a doom scroll through my recommended, I originally clicked on the UnBEARable amount of Bear Knowledge video, and I absolutely loved it. So, I proceeded to binge watch all of your videos back-to-back, really amazing shit! One of the only channels I check for uploads!
Thank you
This is not the kind of topic I subscribed for but I appreciate the verity
Variety*
Uh, my guy no 2 vids of his follow the same topic 💀
To be honest
The new Peugeots, especially the wagons are fucking fire. They look gorgeous
My older brother had a LeCar, and my dad had a Peugeot 504 in the early 80s. The LeCar would be an okay 2nd car but wore out quickly, and the engine died at 90k. The Peugeot was not a cheap car, stripped out and very plain. The problem was parts. This was pre-internet, so you had to drive hundreds of miles to get parts. So French cars are great if you are in France.
1970 Renault 16. Very nice car but not suitable for USA.
With one melee reference you have earned my loyalty
This is kinda funny. A few weeks ago, I saw a modern Renault at a local Walmart close to me called the "Koleos".
In the usa I seen videos of French cars in California
It's becuse near Mexico/US border citys you can see them
The Nissan Altima has a LOT of Renault bits in it, and it IS cheap, and has a pretty bad rep in the US.
Lots of nissans have renault tech these days
If what you say is true, then I am surprised that Nissan would go that route with French parts. Is Renault the biggest member of the group and has the facilities and mgt to make these design decisions? I would consider a Versa if my car quits. I thought it was still Japanese and not French and is doing very well in world wide sales because of such. Now I will research all this more.
For Renault since 2000, there was almost no point to sell cars in the US because of the presence of Nissan. Nissan light vans (like the NV200) are based on Renault designs (Trafic) in addition to share many mechanical parts on most of their cars, including the Nissan Versa. And due to the recent schism inside the Renault-Nissan alliance, it's very unlikely Renault will make a comeback in the US in 2027.
And due to the collaboration between Fiat and PSA (Peugeot-Citroen before Stellantis) Dodge light vans (ProMaster) are also based on the same design tan the Peugeot Boxer/Fiat Ducato.
3:09 15%, not 49% (source : Citroën French wiki)
7:36 It's almost impossible to find a new French car without A/C in 2023, except for basic entry level models in small cars.
8:47 Not a standard Renault 9 : the front has been modified by a "Jacky tuner", in France this kind of (illegal) modification gives this type of car the nickname of "merguez" (spicy sausage).
There was a car sold by Chrysler in the US that has been designed in France : the Dodge Omni/Plymouth Horizon (originally sold in Europe under the name Simca Horizon, then Talbot Horizon after PSA bought Chrysler European operations) although the engines were from VW for the entry level and fromChrysler for the 2.2L versions.
I remember the Le Car. It's stored in the same spot in my head as the Yugo.
A shame the US can't have some of the French stuff, but let's hope that Stellantis might change that in the future ❤
…as a proud owner of 2 French automobiles and a German Diesel all of which I inherited from my family, i just wished I had more in my aging fleet. They are great cars with very unique needs. Oftentimes when I drive the Citroen 2CV, it gets a lot of smiles and thumbs up and a few ask for a photo op which is funny for back when my Mother drove that thing around in the late 70’s in Palo Alto they thought she was mad. And there’s my late Father ‘s baby the cool beast, a 1959 Facel Vega FV4 Typhoon which is still a head turner even to a super car owner. So glad my folks liked unique things.
Hardly a use case for the average American and American road conditions. Facel Vega FV4. Yeah, just regular folks bought that car.
Yeah, you get smiles of pity...
Thank you rat man Bob. Also what was therecsubway serfer in the background?
That section has just a slide up for a long time so I thought I would help my ADHD viewers
Maybe are we unable to sell our cars, or we don't care. 🇨🇵
Vu qu'on les vends dans le monde entier sauf aux usa, oui je pense que cela nous est égal 😉🇨🇵
they are almost as popular as German or Japanese cars where i live and they're a lot more popular then the shit boxes America puts out
The only time you see a French car in the US is if it has a Mexican license plate. You can occasionally see them when you go in southern Texas. Particularly in towns that has a strip mall featuring big name and luxury brands
I'm waiting for the auto shop teacher to say Chevy is the most successful import brand.
My first car, in 1990, was an '83 Renault Alliance. The rear window decal proudly proclaimed "Motor Trend Car of the Year". I have no idea how it won. This car was the lemon of lemons. The power door locks didn't work, the automatic transmission had no 2nd gear, the radio randomly stopped working, I replaced the head gasket, the thermostat, and the water pump, and it would still overheat during summer unless you ran the heater full blast. This car was only 7 years old at the time, it had about 60K miles when I got it. These days, this level of unreliability in a car from 2016 would be utterly unthinkable, even in a Kia or Hyundai.
$$$$$$ via advertising in the magazine is how they won.
I shopped for a new car in 1987. I looked at Yugos, Chevettes, and tried to look at an Alliance, but they just went bankrupt, and the local dealer had only one which he seemingly had given up on and parked out back. So I ended up with a Dodge Omni.
I had better luck with mine, but it really did suck……and any credibility that Motor Trend magazine may have had was utterly lost
I saw a DS wagon yesterday in Santa Rosa, Ca.
Living close to the Texas Mexico border you see a handful of Renault and Citroën cars from Mexico
I think I've seen a Citroen badge on a car I don't know at a track once, mixed in with MGs and TVRs. I've never seen a French car on the road.
I always considered Peugeot a direct competitor to Volvo in the "near luxury" market, but Volvo was much more successful because they were so much more reliable. People were always bragging about getting 250,000 miles plus out of their Volvos while Peugeot was alway given the absolute worst reliability ratings by Consumer Reports, especially the turbo diesel.
Peugeot "near luxury"? Lmao! The only thing they are near to is near worthless even when new. Actually, scrap that, they ARE worthless.
No the French and American ideas about what automobiles should be is like mixing water and oil.
Peugeot-Citroen have a luxury brand called DS. One wonders if the DS will be sold in the US in the nearest future...
Honestly doubt it. DS aren't as good as the commercials claim them to be. They are just as bad as the rest of the Stellantis cars.
the changing car market may allow the French cars to do well in the US now. Back in the 80s and 90s, the better and more well known French cars were small compact cars (Renault Clio/Megane, Peugeot 205/306 etc). Now with everyone in the world wanting an SUV, the French manufacturers have made huge strides into the whole SUV and crossover market so there's a good chance the appeal to the US may exist now!
1:20 landrover people are _weird_
To be noted: the NHTSA also forbid the use of mineral oil in the brakes circuit.
Funny thing is, the third largest car company in The US is a French company headquartered at 1000 Chrysler drive. Auburn hills, Michigan.
The closest French car the US got is Nissan since Renault is part of the Nissan group
Technically Nissan is also a part of Renault since they both own 50% of the company
Now Mitsubishi entered the company and is owning 20% and 40/40 for Renault and Nissan
That is the most depressed Uncle Sam i've ever seen.
I'm sure it's not what you mean, but nissan has been partnered with renault for like 25 years. Newer nissans say renault nissan in the doorjamb, some say Samsung renault.
I have only ever seen one here a clio at a car show
There were a lot of Renault Dauphines running around Dallas in the 60s. Texas heat and long distances were murder on them and I never saw one that didn't leak oil. I think they also had some kind of electric clutch set up. Haven't seen one in ages.
Ive seen french cars in florida
It would be really cool if we could get the Renault Alpine A110
Nice vid
I saw a clio in Arizona. Definitely drove up from Mexico or something
Dude how this channel not 1 million subs
Thank you for pronouncing Peugeot the Irish and therefore correct way. I had a MK2 Renault scenic and it looked a heck of a lot more complex than it actually was. Most trouble came from the electrics but they were usually one time items which weren’t usual in other car brands. It’s a car which would’ve gone down well in the states, very spacious, cheap to run, good AC and a good ride.
But then there are loads of US cars we can’t buy here so you’re probably missing as much as we are.
I still own an Alliance it's running fine
You got a lot of the main points. A couple of other key issues:
1. Engines. France heavily taxes big engines, so French cars have always had small ones. The Citroen DS had a 2.1 liter 4 and this was typical. Americans preferred larger engines, especially as many of these cars were expensive.
2. Rust. Renault was very successful in the US in the 1950's--but their cars got a bad reputation for ruting away. Some French cars (notably Peugeot) were better on this, but, in general, it was a problem for owners and brand reputation.
3. Eccentricity. French cars had a reputation for being quirky and oddball. Some people loved this, but most Americans just wanted a "normal" car. This was especially true with cars like Citroen, whose unique design and engineering were understood by very few mechanics. Even Peugeot--the most conservative French company--put the turn signal on the right side and the horn on the turn sinal. People just couldn't get into it.
4. Marketing and Image. People had a hard time defiining what French cars were supposed to be. Were they economy cars? Luxury cars? Sporty cars? The answer was not exactly any of these. Mercedes was luxury. BMW was sporty. VW was economy. Volvo and Saab wee safety and hardiness in cold. Peugeot was ???.
And you're spot-on on the issues of parts cost and availability and weak dealer networks. It's a shame as my family had several Frenc cars and they were charming, comfortable and fun.
~10 years ago there were car sharing in San Francisco that used the Renault Twizy 2 seater EV, but it was rebranded as a Nissan Scoot. Kyle Conner from Out of Spec Motoring has an actual Renault Twizy in US.
This is one of the best car videos from a non car channel ive ever seen. I place the failure of french cars in the states to trying to get into very competitive segments with cars that werent as good as the competition. Why buy a renault when you grandpappy talks about how junk his one in the 50s was, and the toyota dealership is selling corollas for about the same price. Especially once the american manufacturers started selling proper compacts like the cavalier, escort and the reliant, there was no place for the french alternatives that had a shitty dealer network and no aftermarket parts supply
I actually do see French cars here since I live close enough to Mexico that people drive them from there to here. Bonus: sometimes you'll even see a SEAT.
Nice
They only make 100 cars a year? How are they profitable
Each car costs 3 million
@@TheRatManBob do they sell them all?
@@greenoftreeblackofblue6625if they didn’t, they would probably make even less lol
They probably arent, but its like a technology and manufacturing test bed for its owner, the VW group
@@TheRatManBob And cost a fortune to maintain. 42 000$ for a set of tires and they last 5000km IF you are careful.
One and probably the primary reason The Alliance and Encore were wearing out before the payments were over. One of my Uncles ran an auto salvage yard near Kenosha, he’d get Alliances and Encores with less than 40,000 miles and the repairs needed cost more than the car was worth. Things like struts, brakes, shocks and maybe a clutch. It was good business for him as AMC had a rule to park on the company lot it had to be something the company made. Most AMC employees had a beater
AMC to drive to work.
11:02 the Renault Nissan Mitsubishi Alliance sounds like a megacorporation from some futuristic dystopian story
Thanks!
Thank you
I haven't seen a French cars since 1995
Holy shit I haven't watched smash in a while but 0:32 made me cackle my ass off
Because they were sold in the us in the 80's. And everyone saw that it was crap. Some were ok, but generally they didn't matched the comparison with their japanese and german counterparts. So the reason is quite simple... consumers choice.
Given the prices here right now I bet all 3 of them would do great here given how cheep some models are
Renault sold a lot of Alliances and Encores. They just didn’t hold up. I worked at a Combination Chrysler/Plymouth/AMC dealership that sold Renault . We sold a lot of them. The 1.4 liter had a rough idle that that basically owners had to live with. Brakes didn’t hold up, rear axles seized up and had to be pulled apart and greased . The 1.7 liter engine had issues. I remember the plastic bushings in the shift linkage disintegrating, electrical problems. Word of mouth spread quickly. By 1986/87 we were hardly selling any Renault products.
Fix It Again, Tony! Oh wait, that's... Italian.
I remember when we had them here and it was a few different things but they weren’t bad and I see them where I live all the time but they are from Mexico. I rented a Qwid not too long ago and it was really not a good car but that’s because it is the cheapest Renault makes, I thought the power windows in the front and roll downs in the back was an interesting option. It was a standard too.
They missed out on the Peugeot 205. Sorry Golf/rabbit fans. but that was THE hothatch of the 80's and 90's and still is.
Quality video lad fast paced and actually gives good information
Peugeot had just a terrible dealer network in the u.s. I visited a Peugeot "dealership" in the early eighties in Georgia that consisted of one of those garden sheds you store your lawn mower in a gravel parking lot.
Yep. That's what I remember about owning French cars in the '80s, little to no support and pricey parts when you could find them. The cars I recall rode nice when they ran. :P
I’ve seen 3 French cars all 3 were Bugattis in Miami and Vegas
Not sure about the US but in Europe, some Mercedes use Renault engines
1.6l Diesel or Petrol in the Mini (BMW) is from Peugeot.
here's an old brazilian joke about french cars:
Hey did you know they renamed the peugeot 206 to peugeot 209? It's because they have found another 3 ways it can malfunction.
Man one brand I wish we’d get in the states is Skoda.
We had them in Quebec, the last time I saw one was in the early 2000.
Lmao Enid, Oklahoma?! What'd they do to you?
I owned an auto repair shop in the 80s. The Renaults were very unreliable and were the worst cars to work on. I remember the Renault "Le Car" required either the engine removal or cylinder head removal just to replace the starter. The Renault Alliance used to strip the plastic speedometer gear in the transmission and you had to remove the transmission and dissemble it completely to get to the plastic gear. We finally refused to work on them at all for anything.
I have a French car, a 2CV
Living in a small part of North America where we speak french.🇲🇶 Citroen and Peugeot were not really common cars but I saw plenty of Renault Alliance and Renault 5 in the 80's. But the Renault Fuego 🔥 leaves the consumers quite cold for good reasons.
French cars mirror the engineering brilliance of the French people. Only recently have they focused on touch point quality aspects like the interior (except always providing comfortable seats) with models that have German levels of fit and finish. But the underlying mechanicals have always been solid. Tax laws in France discouraged big engines and French culture generally places less emphasis on “status automobiles”. Finally, pre-war luxury marques like Delahaye, Delage, Voisin, Bugatti, (and others) were not encouraged by the economic climate to pick up where they left off after the war, so French leadership in the ultra luxury car segment was ceded to the Germans and Italians.
Bottom line. French cars, even the inexpensive ones, always have something special about them. Always.
Great video! My only complaint is that it sounds rushed, like you're speaking over your own words
The only time I've seen a French Car in Tucson is when it has Sonoran plates.
9:22 Let's go! We're still out here! Though maybe assassinating car magnates isn't a super practical way to achieve anything...
More seriously if you're interested, the word Libertarian has a pretty interesting history. Up until the mid 20th century and still very frequently in Europe today, the word was basically synonymous for anarchists. It was only very recently that the word "libertarian" was used by free market capitalists, and it was mostly exclusive to the United States until even more recently.
So if you see "libertarian communist" or anything of the like, it's basically just another word for Anarchists or Anarchist Communists. The history of all these terms is really interesting and I can go more in depth about how they came into use, but that's the general overview.
That makes sense. I keep up with current politics as best I can, but I haven't looked into a lot of poli sci to be honest. It just struck me as funny because being from New Mexico, I associate libertarians with Gary Johnson enthusiasts who tend to be the kind of people that use communist as an insult. After reading about action directe, I was like oh so they were kind of like the Freetown Christiania people but these ones were a lot more violent
Please make more car videos 🙏🏽
If France really wanted to sell cars in the US, they’d open more factories in Mexico.
In the 80s, my old many needed a new set of wheels. Took a look at the AMC dealer. Did they call it the Renault 18 here? We took it for a test drive. Underwhelming with Fisher Price toy interior quality. He bought a Honda Accord.
3:56 is that the San Antonio Riverwalk?
How do you know what Enid Oklahoma is ??
I worked on many Peugeot bicycles whan I was a mechanic. They do things differently than others, and nobody copies them. Pain in the ass to service, and no upside.
The add in of subway surfers for the text pages was hilarious. What a dig at people with 0 attention span.
You can't get a single part for a Peugeot now.
Reason we don’t do French cars is cause they only drive in reverse just like their tanks
Simple: they are afraid the cars might 'kiss'.
It's cuz besides focusing on going in reverse once broken you end up walking using using defeat
The USA has tons of French cars, are you trying to tell me Chevrolet isn't french? The founders name i think was Jean-Paul Chevrolet, pretty french to me. They even use the French flag on the camaro and corvette badges.
Yeah because Louis Chevrolet was Swiss LOL
@@TheRatManBobYour Renault info is old, Nissan and Renault are doing a lot to split apart from each other, so don't expect them to be sold in the U.S. at Nissan dealerships.
@@fortheloveofnoise
mitsubishi might sell rebadged renaults though! They are already selling rebadges renaults in europe, so why not give it a try in the US? Mitsubishi is much more known than renault in the states after all
Really because 3 days ago they had a press conference confirming that they are going to sell cars in more places together, here are the slides even alliancernm.com/app/uploads/2023/12/PPT_Alliance_Press_Conference_2023_VDEF-1.pdf what you are referencing is them working on selling a few shares of each other for fundraising because all 3 companies are having monetary issues. Your info isn't even old, it's just wrong @fortheloveofnoise9298
Well Switzerland is on the boarder of Italy and France, most Swiss people speak French, and have French ancestry, and Louis is definitely French.
So yeah, Chevrolet is about as French as it gets to me.
I have seen French cars in Mexico .
Yeah, because Mexico sucks, just like the French and their (poor attempts at) cars.