The OFFICIAL Season 7 Overwatch 2 Hero Tier List!!!
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- čas přidán 19. 10. 2023
- Reuploaded due to a rendering error with the audio, sorry about that!
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#Flats #overwatch #overwatch2 #tierlist - Hry
Time Stamps for my lovely people yet again c:
0:41 - Orisa
2:44 - Junker Queen
4:03 - Ramattra
5:55 - Sigma
8:34 - Doomfist
9:28 - Zarya
10:33 - Rein
11:40 - Winton
13:56 - Dva
15:23 - Roadhog
19:59 - Wreaking Ball
21:11 - Soldier
22:30 - Ashe
23:18 - Bastion
24:46 - Cass
26:00 - Echo
27:38 - Genji
31:01 - Hanzo
31:46 - Junkrat
32:22 - Mei
34:26 - Pharah
36:09 - Reaper
36:59 - Sojourn
38:07 - Sombra
41:21 - Sym
42:39 - Torb
42:58 - Tracer
44:22 - Widow
45:43 - Life Weaver
48:32 - Illari
50:52 - Ana
53:17 - Bap
55:08 - Brig
57:06 - Bap & Illari (again)
57:25 - Kiriko
59:45 {life of support players}
1:02:55 - Lucio
1:05:05 - Mercy
1:11:57 - Moira
1:13:00 - Zen
1:15:32 - {results in reference to zen}
God's work
Thank you, I shall start worshipping the ground you walk on now.
Huh, I wonder why Mercy is debated for 7 minutes Oblivious
Have my children
Actual hero, thanks so much
As someone who recently started learning tracer it really is miserable having to 2 clip a healing pylon,when you can get immediately deleted by everything in there backline if they look at you
that means shes even more similar to a fly
As a tracer main I'd say wait till the support nerf (assuming it's as impactful as we need it do be) to try to learn her. While you can still learn her now, you're at such a disadvantage that you're better off playing sombra for the flank and kill someone play style. I stopped playing tracer as much because it just feels so ass to play her rn.
I mean Sombra cant break it either without getting shot either..Pylon is harder to kill than illari..That's not even a joke I am serious
A good ilari will also destroy their pylon before it gets damaged for the reduced cool down. Needs a health nurf def
Ball is s tier
To me as a genji player, flats put it perfectly, beautifully. Almost like poetry:
"The only reason you'd play Genji, is because he's fun to play"
True, in my opinion genji is the most fun character in the game
genji gets hard countered by a lot of characters as well displayed in the higher spots.
I love Genji in total mayhem, even though he runs around doing nothing but tickling the enemy team, he’s still fun to play 😂
everyday i wake up as a genji main and everyday i pray that every support goes to D tier next season
anyone else remember when nano-blade was basically a guaranteed team wipe?? no? Just me?
Orisa isn't overpowered, it's just hard to play against her when the supports' giga healing and bastion cutting down more mobile tanks lets her anchor better than intended
Buts that’s exactly what is happening rn so she is overpowered for those reason when those leave she’s not broken
@@randompersonhere4119she's overpowered because supports have too much healing
@@pandolam9389exactly that’s how things work it’s not solo it’s in general
@@pandolam9389and fortify just makes it even worse to play againt +healing also
@@randompersonhere4119 but it's not orisas kit being overpowered. The difference is that orisa could go through 0 changes and a support healing numbers nerf would put her in line. Like ashe was fine without mercy but she got major nerfs to make that interaction fair, and ashe is a mid dps because of blue beam. People remember the thing that kills them and not the things that are enabling it
It's so funny that Mei has more survivability than like 5 of the tanks on the roster rn
shes the closest we have to 2 tanks, i always rival dmg mitigated with walls and use it to bail out my tank like i would if i was other tank
Whenever im beating an enemy team, I notice the ultimate copout for them is to swap to bastion Mei. The team effectively has 3 tanks at that point.
FUN FACT: DID YOU KNOW BASTION TAKES THE SAME AMOUNT OF SHOTS TO DIE TO GENJI AND JUNKRAT AS JUNKERQUEEN? WHO IS A TANK BTW?
FUN FACT ABOUT THAT ^ FUN FACT: THATS IN RECON MODE - WHEN HES IN TANK MODE, IT'S EVEN WORSE BECAUSE HE GETS MORE DAMAGE REDUCTION!!! :D
@masift1494 yeah I genuinely don't believe bastion is healthy for the game anymore. In 6v6 it was a bit different, vs the tank perspective at least. Bastion was welcome because of the fact that 2 shields were absurd, but nowadays playing a shield TEAM tank just isn't worth. The only good tank that has a shield is sigma, but that's because his shield is more selfish than anything else.
who needs a tank when mei and bastion exist, they’re tanks themselves
I'm really happy to see Sigma as the highest rated Tank, but bummed to see Ball as the lowest.
i love whenever sig is meta
Nothing to add but same. I really hope ball gets some love soon
ball sadly will not be meta in a long time, more than half the game can be argued to be a ball hardcounter
@@chaseyboiiii Says this until he gets nerfed in a few months :melting:
@@thelemaque1445 I think he needs some kind of cc protection, mostly in ball form. His entire gimmick is null and void is there's a sombra hack or sleepdart. I don't know how they'd implement that without him being busted, but something needs to done about cc to him specifically
The problem with balancing Ana nade is it only gets more valuable as heal and damage creep increase. If numbers go down anti nade's value also goes down.
Its value is also too dependent on whether or not Kiri is run against her.
@@concinnusEven with an enemy Kiri, Ana nade can still get value - good way to bait suzu for your Junker Queen ult
@@concinnusSleep her or sleep the other support. Or anyone. Or wait until the Kiri dies. She is still a counter, but not a hard counter like Ana is into Queen.
ana nade and kiri suzu just both shouldnt exist
@@Feynvel They're good conceptually. It's just that they snap the game in half depending on what's meta.
As someone who plays a shitload of lucio, his boop is fully a cosmetic ability at this point. Tank passive negates it entirely and it even feels wayyy less consistent against things like booping rez. Meanwhile, one of orisa’s boops is cross map and stuns and the other is a continuous knockback that also speeds her and eats incoming shots while also ignoring things like bubble and the tank passive.
Dont forget she also buffs her tank passive with no knockback at all. For a good 3-4 seconds.
someone learned the difference between a support and a tank, a 4 second cooldown knockback on a VERY fast character is supposed to be annoying and put people out of position vs a 8 second stun that does 80 dmg that is used as a shutdown/cancel on a character with low damage on low movement.
Boop is fine. It’s just to peel and get environmental kills. It was always this way
boop is fine for putting tanks out of position, but it feels really weak when going for boops off the map
Ironically, i think tank is super balanced in reference to each other, its just the other roles that make it miserable to play
I feel like once supports are toned down a bit the game will actually be in a pretty good spot(Mei and bastion could use a small nerf as well) cause what I see from this list is that there really aren’t any bad characters. It’s like you said, it’s just the strongest ones gatekeeping the others.
Real take right here.
@@sjfarias96Except for Genji. Nerf Genji.
(But fr, Genji could use a small buff. Emphasis on small)
@@benjaminolive1366 His ult feels like it lasts for 2 seconds, back in ow1 it lasted for like half an hour
Right now tanks tend to be... stand there and look pretty kinda. I think if healers get a proper nerf maybe just maybe they will hit a good spot. But its just not fun to play tank anymore.
I didnt know how much i agree with supports being dps until illari came out because shes a nuisance to go up against if they can actually hit headshots.
I mean hitting headshots with her is easier than hitting headshots with an Ash, she has larger bullets
@@siffumetsu271yea so much easier but Ashe is way more satisfying to use if you actually hit shots. Illari is DPS with training wheels
@@paper_bandit fr but the problem is she does too much dmg to have those training wheels
You dont even need to hit headshots, 75dmg for a bodyshot is crazy cause its another source of damage that can poke dps to force them out all while not having to worry about healing cause pylon is the main source
I think Illari’s damage is ok but her heals need badly nerfed. My suggestion was 5 heals off her pylon and put a timer on her pylon so she constantly has to move it.
That Tracer take is real af. Still doing my thing but I've found myself struggling so much more these past two seasons with the infinite sustaining. Quite literally, no one dies lmfao
Fr. And people still think Tracer is S tier when shes been mid for 2-3 season straight.
the long range damage changes really got to her i feel like
@@SpiritedFalconThis. It’s annoying people still think Tracer is S tier in the era of Illari turret bastion bap she’s still good but damn it can feel impossible to kill anything sometimes
tracer, reaper, and genji are all weak rn. What do they all have in common?
They were all part of the original cast at launch, and they're all flankers.
Power creep is very real and it shows the most whenever OG heroes like genji, tracer, reaper, rein, etc are weak. The game is not in a healthy state when these heroes are bad.
By healthy I mean unbalanced and objectively not fun.
I think the problem is that it’s at the point that one hero can’t solo carry a game by just deleting everyone one at a time, unless they are considerably better than everyone else in the lobby. The answer is to time your flanks/dives with one of your team. Focus fire wins games. As a DVa main when I have a tracer/genji/reaper/sombra on my team I make sure to keep an eye on where they set up, ping a nearby target, and fly at them with a full set of missiles the moment they make a move. Cue instant deletion of enemy backline.
I’ve also found when playing in general and especially on support that either pinging targets if not actively calling them out in voice chat is a massive help. As a support you can easily see when an enemy is overextending and if you just say their name three times they very often magically fall over dead.
1:00:00 i feel this so hard. ive been a support main for like five years now, and what drew me to the role is SUPPORTING my teammates. i like doing damage and having my pop off moments, but being the backbone of my team and helping them clutch ults, escape, etc was always my favorite thing about the role. now it feels like i have to primarily focus on damage and that letting my dps and tank die in order to trade kills is the better option most of the time and i REALLY don't like that. that is NOT why i started playing support. i actually started queuing dps more recently and have been having way more fun (granted, the games are easier because of MMR decay) because it's more relaxed. sometimes i can't kill anything, but at least i just have one job to do and im not unwillingly playing god, master of life and death 😭😭
also, as a former mercy one trick, you're under our protection. (also fix the GA bugs and she'd be A tier easily)
Yeah, that's literally the issue with supports in this game. In LoL, the supports have abilities that can make their team members survive or do more damage, and in many cases it's like a meme getting killed by a support due to their team diffing you so much. Even a fed support might struggle killing someone
In Overwatch, although they are harder to balance because it's a shooter and you can't buy items, supports literally can do anything that every other role can do and in some cases better. After watching the video there's probably not any need for me to say any examples but I will still say two: brig can heal decently her team and she can choose a team mate to never let him die because she is pretty much a tank with a shield and decent damage, illari can place the pylon and completely forget about her team mates while doing damage that almost equals to 3 genji shuriken headshots, which means that she can two tap almost any champion with 200 hp while keeping her team alive (potentially also champs like cass if it's 2 headshots). Lately, whenever I play sombra and there's an illari, the first thing that I do is either hack her pylon or kill it, otherwise I won't get any kills on her team. If I'm playing genji, I have to break the pylon or I won't be able to do anything at all (only something like 3 headshots, dash and fast melee might kill someone: literally feels like trying to kill someone that is under zen ult) and then if I manage to kill it and decide to try and go into their backline illari boops me back and I get instantly oneshotted. That's just two examples and let's not even talk about more of them like ana hit box, bap self healing...
Oh yeah, almost forgot that illari also has almost the same hit box with her weapon than mercy's gun, which is kinda ridiculous.
Let's hope that supports get nerfed quite a bit and actually start supporting their team instead of doing everything on their own ("prayzen").
Yeah, I'm the same. I really like helping out my team and being the one to save them/encourage them for plays, that's why I usually main Ana/Mercy as both of them can be just for helping out the team go for plays and not just dps all the way. Now a days I can't just help out my team to let them go for plays anymore since if I do that then we just lose, I need to pop off as a support every game and if I don't I get told I'm 'Throwing'. (Even in quick play, I don't even want to think about comp, I left that behind in OW 1) That's why I don't play OW much anymore, every so often I load it up but I'm just tired having to be a dps plus support when all I want to do is help my tank or dps go in and kill everything and make them feel good.
Dude this is the reason I play tank more now. I wanna support my teammates I don’t want to be the main dmg dealer.
@@whitecat5782meanwhile us tank players who started playing tank for the powerfantasy of being a big guy with a hammer walking into the enemy team and killing them have nowhere to go
@@dirtprime1379you clearly don’t play lol
Now we can hear him!
Flats never mentioned that hog gets a heal boost after breather
I had a game where I solo shattered a Cass who was killing my team, hit him 9 times and he didn’t die. Only one pocketing him was a Kiriko. 9 swings uninterrupted on one character and that character killed me
yeah as useless as he is at range, with a support pocket and at close range cass is a monster
I remember one time me and my friend got all the way to second point on king's row with just rein kiriko. They couldn't kill him at all even though it was just me helping him.
rein does 88 dps. kiriko does 76 healing. why are you trying to fight that
try throwing a firestrike between swings. That's how you kill through healing as rein. Swing firestrike swing tends to kill most things.
Bro I once hit an Ana 9 times too but she survived because a fucking mercy was healing her, it’s on my CZcams channel, check it out
Wow guys a certain role appears to be dominating at all levels, I wonder if it can certainly be argued that this role has a potentially vapid balancing philosophy.
More like at the higher levels of the game not really all levels
@@valkyriesmilk6697 mercy and moira are notorious for giving a ton of value per skill. Bap lamp still makes ppl invincible even if they don't throw it reactionary. Suzu still clenses in AOE, same as nade anties in AOE. When supports can't hit their shots they are healbotting (some of them does not require aim at all). When dps can't hit their shots they are reported for throwing/being boosted in worse case scenario
Truth is, Orisa is OP when a Mercy has her staff up her butt and Ana is only healing the biggest target on the map because she can’t hit anything else.
@@the2ndKentOrisa is nothing but a big rock. You cant kill shit with her and your only way to be doing something impactful is to throw your stick to kinda CC people so your teammates can kill the person you "CC'ed". As a tank main playing in high diamond/masters, the best way to beat Orisa, is to not look at her except when you know they have their spear cooldown up. She STOMPS in low tiers because people shoot at her and not her supports or dps.
@@l_Helkern_lorisa really isn't that good in low ranks either, the style is about being able to rotate cooldowns, which no one in bronze can do. They just mash the buttons off cd and its the same for supports like kiri ana bap and lw. Plus people can't hit spears in that elo so the value is low
Yep, the Genji ranking is accurate. He is so hard to get any value out of, you have to perfectly aim your shots and manage all of your cooldowns to survive or get any picks, supports cancel out his blade almost always unless you have nano but even then, some supports still negate all of his damage. I only play him because like you said, he is fun, really fun. Only hero besides Lucio and Junkerqueen that I find genuinely enjoyable to play. Genji despite being absolutely frustrating to work with and absolute trash in the meta, is still is more fun than any other hero to me, which is a problem honestly.
Pretty much everyone has cc to blade now. I've lost count how many times I've blade and been coachgunned or solo illari ulted or a lifeweaver has put tree up. It's so annoying to play him now
cool story, nerf Genji
They need to undo the nerfs going into ow2. Let dash cancel melee again, and give him back his double jump reset on wall climb
@1:01:08
"Your only healing as a tank is the pylon, your illari's in their backline twirling around in circles, and your bap's 3 miles up in the air headshotting somebody; there is no team game anymore, it's just team deathmatch on steroids."
A lesson well learned for the OW community; when the healing class can literally do it all, there is no team game left, it just becomes TDM.
Fun fact, I've literally had this very same experience as far back as Season 1 of OW2; most support players just didn't know how to abuse their OP heroes back then.
As a support main I’m not having fun either. I also have to deal with the enemy supports being just as op as I am so we just spend the whole game countering each other’s cooldowns with our teams caught in the middle of it just to see who can last the longest. It’s actually getting ridiculous.
So what you are telling us is that the support creep has gotten so bad even supports hate it?
@nielsholmlassen8275 he's not wrong, especially with the addition of Illari, who can already use a healing beam that can pass through teammates WITH a healing pylon and a good damaging weapon as a cherry on top
@@nielsholmlassen8275 I don’t think any support that wasn’t a previous dps player likes this.
That being said, either blizzard is going to need support into oblivion and then nobody’s gonna wanna play support or theyre nerf isn’t actually going to solve anything.
All they did was take OW1 and make it worse.
It can't be understated how smart it is to acknowledge that Support players are suffering because they HAVE to take duels now. I know so many casual Support players that love characters like Mercy and Lifeweaver because they can just vibe and heal, and they get so frustrated when the enemy Supports are in our ass all game. It's literally not fun for any role.
Frrrrr I LOVE that he brought that up, I used to be fine playing any support but now I don’t wanna touch most since I’d be the one responsible for dps AND hps which is wayy too overwhelming. LW has been the only one consistently fun for me since the beginning but problem is I can’t do damage either, and since my dps struggle to dps, I don’t win games super consistently
I personally don't mind the dps support play style. I like being able to do something other than mindlessly heal the whole time. Although, the fact that supports are having to do what dps are doing and are better at it, is definitely an issue.
That's literally a skill issue though lol. Mindlessly healbotting has always been something boosted or low elo supports have done even back in OW1
@@Senor_Fast I love the style too, personally. I've been playing a lot more support lately because characters like Kiriko and Illari are really fun. But people I know who've been playing since 2016 that loved Mercy cuz she wasn't mechanically demanding are really struggling with the current meta, even at low ELO
@@geminimaxxim same those 2 are really fun to play. But imo those mercy players need to get good. Not everything is going to cater to them and be on easy mode. Especially comp they need to learn other heroes and not crutch on others carrying them.
I’m so glad you talked about the Ana Kiri dynamic. I got so irritated 1 game where the enemy Ana kept saying I kept misusing my suzu to protect our Hog. But a good Ana will wait for suzu to get used. I literally HAD to suzu our Hog or else he would have died, but the moment I suzu THEN she uses nade. It’s like a game I had where I had Tree and the enemy had Hog ult so neither of us ulted for the longest time. I eventually used it and he finally popped his ult and broke my tree. It’s like people don’t understand the weird counter dynamic in OW.
what flats said about pylon at 1:01:20 is so true. The amount of times you get into that situation is terrifying
Speaking of Winstons not dying.
I had a 5v3 yesterday, the enemy Winston and his 2 supports vs my entire team. The Winston literally just emoted on the cart but my team couldnt kill him. I was definitely feeling the big sad
I just hit masters as a Genji main only, sh!t felt like I was playing Dark Souls but my motivation was a Plat 5 match were both the enemy team and my own team were insulting me, one guy said something I never forgot "hope you never make it to masters or higher" playing as Genji hurts some times, but it feels damn good when reach your goals, and it feels better than anything when you shut down all your "cOuNtErS"
Happy for you. Good luck 🤞
I get where you’re coming from but as a team perspective I also see what they’re saying. Genji is really ass rn and doesn’t really contribute all that much compared to other heroes.
Orisa kind of reminds me of Pharah. On her own she’s ok, but with the right team comp she just becomes a menace.
The difference is pharaoh can be countered still by half the roster.
Especially soldier who really isn’t that hard to use.
Even with a mercy attached to her hip, pharaoh isn’t that big of an issue if you’re not dogwater with at least any of the 17 hitscans.
Orisa however can’t be countered by anything other then another orsia or any flank/dive tank. The issue being that the dive tanks absolutely suck. So it’s a double edged sword.
The one thing I hate about Illari is her hitscan burst. Every other support has some kind of drawback to their DPS (overtime, travel time, need headshot, melee range, etc). If Illari had to charge her shot for 1s before shooting (similar to Lifeweaver heal) instead of it being ready automatically, that would be a start. Not to mention her ult is a DPS ult for every intent and purpose, and puts actual DPS ults like EMP to shame.
It's not even only hitscan, its a projectile hitbox to the head and body while ALSO being hitscan
@@CommandswithCatI was wondering why I was doing surprisingly good as her. Apparently I’m not actually that good she’s just a better dps then everyone else
@@creed8712 nah I'm sure you're great but she's just a disgusting hero rn
So you want Illari’s shot to be holding down the trigger and releasing to shoot rather than let it charge automatically then shoot whenever you want, that seems pretty pointless. That would just make it annoying to use rather than actually have an in game impact
@@tbtnr9851That's literally the same as hanzo, and is a decent way to nerf characters that have such high damage
Eskay yesterday on Bap while being forced to go Bap: "I hope they nerf this hero to the f-ing ground and never buff him again so I never have to f-ing see him again."
Eskay is based for that. Bap is braindead and overpowered.
Ngl, very based take from Eskay
@@SpiritedFalconI wouldn’t say braindead he takes a bit of mechanical skill to play.
@@_stfubroskii He's not entirely braindead, but still to a decent extent.
@@SpiritedFalcongood baps actually have a lot of skill, he’s just been buffed a lot and most people who play him are trash
I remember in Overwatch 1, the experimental stuff, they were going to give Sigma a buff with his kinetic grasp. The buff was that he’d get movement speed, while sucking up projectiles, and I know that’s not a huge buff, but it would be so nice to have any sort of movement speed on him.
That’s pretty much been exactly my experience on genji. Blade feels useless without nanoblade and even with it any of a number of powerful cooldowns can basically shut you down
I honestly like popping blade to spook the whole enemy team and get them waiting for me, when I have no intention of diving in. Makes space without going in. Pop it in the sidelines or behind where they hear it, they turn, your team walk in.
@@skarloeythomas5172 I've been thinking about doing that because of how neutered blade is, how successful has that strat been for you?
Get better
Most tank diffs are support diffs in disguise
Thank you cuz the tank diff comes quick when the orisa just stood there the whole time not dying I refuse to orisa back
Or it’s actually a tank or dps diff. These streaming brainwashed you idiots into thinking this stuff
This is the definitive tier list in my book. Well justified and great discussion, thanks Flats!
7:30 something similar happened to me yesterday on eichenwald too. I realized I couldn't kill anything as winston so I just sat on the payload, let my team die, grab a healthpack when im focused, cart moves 2 feet, my team is back, I touch again, they die again, I ult to stall, they're back again, they die again, repeat. We won and I think my final stat line was like 6-1, everyone else on my team had 6+ deaths. What a dumb game lol
Ramattra’s my favorite tank and Ana’s make me shutter if I don’t have my shield up or I’m in nemesis form because “I’m just so beefy” and easy to hit. I still love dragging my inner Titan main from Destiny into this game though.
I think sigma could use the ability to retract his shield as well as push it forward whenever he wants. So he can reposition it during a fight as well as leave it as is (if desired)
I, an Ana main, absolutely LOVE it when the enemy tank picks Ramattra. He has like 1 counter against sleep (his barrier) and is so easy to melt with my team. Funnily enough, I do also love having a Ramattra on my own team, due to Nano + Annihilation being a fightwinner in metal ranks
Can't wait for the inevitable nerf to Ana's anti heal.
@@lukeaustin4465
Her anti heal isn’t really that big of an issue when kiri is there to Suzu it away entirely.
Her damage should be slightly nerfed and then she needs to just be left alone
so proud of you not going on a brig yap session this time man good work! made the video bearable
Just to put things into perspective, in the genji clip, the cassidy was receiving 272.5 healing per second, compared to the 180 nano blade damage and the 50 damage from dash. And that is not taking into consideration the suzu cleansing, and the cassidy roll damage resist. So yeah genji's not that great.
so is it not fair to ask them to bait out abilities before nanoblading? or do (im assuming) high elo players get a free pass because reasons?
@@neilmallick20 ah yes bait suzu and break turret, so that the 2 ULTS your team just popped dont get countered by a supports cooldowns
@@SmobertoA lot of ults can be countered by a cooldown so you totally do have to bait out cooldowns, Dva bomb can be countered by a sheild, sigma van be stopped with a doom punch or sleep dart, illari can be stopped by a Genji deflect.
@@Flob13And that is a problem, a ult should be counterd only by another ult not by normal cooldowns
@@andreamicheli2575 good thing the game design isn't done by you, every fight would just come down to who has more ultimates and there would be zero counterplay. yeah cool game design there. i dont watch flats very much but is that the kind of stuff he's teaching his fanbase? lol
Start of season 6 I was a mid plat dps player and I decided to swap to support and now I am low masters it’s literally just the better role
Same. I went as a dps main in ow1 to a support main in ow2 and good lord is it easy to rank up. Getting into masters is a joke. Makes you question how good the rest of the healer population is though.
By far the easiest role for sure you get value doing anything
@@thewavyprince5691 It’s so much easier to carry because not only can you correct the mistakes of your teammates with cooldowns like suzu, lamp, and nade and healing but you can do just as much damage as a dps alongside that
Doubt it
I played DPS and can 100% confirm the annoyingness of supports. I'm playing ashe against a pocketed ashe, illari, and bap all poking at me. I won but it was not enjoyable. I was just lucky they had worse aim at that point and forgot they had to help the tank
So not sure if anyone else made this comment but Roadhog did actually receive one minor buff of: receiving healing amp after Take a Breather finishes. Not a large buff but one that contributes to healing throughput going up.
Supports are in the strongest spot right now by far, but i think a massive part of the issue is just number inflation in general. DPS damage number inflation too. Characters dont need more damage right now, supports need to do less healing. They need to lower the numbers on so much. All this number inflation volatility leads to things like an Ana nade being the make or break in every single fight, and thats nots fun. But if they stop bringing all the numbers up to compensate, that issue becomes less apparent.
It's almost like "buffing is better than nerfing" is not a good balance/game design philosophy.
@@EingefrorenesEisen For real. I came back to OW2 bc I remember OW 1 not being about oneshotting everything like a lot of other games right now. But you NEED one shots with how much healing there is rn. But one shots aren't healthy for (almost) any game, let alone overwatch. Truly, they just need to scale down everyone's numbers a bit and take a look at things again.
What’s funny is that they kept buffing brain dead heroes like Bastion, Torb (which they reverted) and Mei (why did they buff her primary damage?). Like what idiot thought that the tankiest dps in the game that so happen to either he tank busters or anti dive needed to meta? That’s not even including support damage in which Kiri, Bap and Illari should do that much damage as a support.
You right but anna nade has always been a fight decider ever since ov1: It just looks overtuned now by the stae Ov2 is in.
@@tactulotus7448 the effectiveness of the nade directly scales with the effectiveness and and necessity of the healing it's blocking. Not to mention it's gotten infinitely more impactful with one less tank to target.
as a player who is fresh to OW and open minded to playing any role. Tank is the most stressful role hands down!
It's so refreshing to see someone who isn't a Mercy player have such a solid Mercy take.
Everyone complains about mercy, but she’s honestly the most balanced support right now. She really can’t do damage, her Rez is easy to counter because she’s literally glowing red, especially with the new road hog buff, and the fact that the two tanks who easily counter her are now meta (sigma and orsia), and because hitscan are probably the most op dps class right now and again they counter her.
I think people just try and 1v2 and complain when they inevitably lose.
I’ve been maining Ana this season so far purely for the value you get out of anti. I literally won an overtime comp game just from flanking around and throwing a nade as my Dps pushed in. She’s so damn good man. Yea Suzu counters it but it’s damn near on double the cd and I just usually help my team pressure it out then throw nade.
I just enjoy the fact that she takes skill to be effective with. Hitting sleeps on an ulting moira, soldier, or flanking Dps just feels so good 😂
I dont even play much support, but I main Ana and Brig. (Very different heroes I know) but like you said, Ana is so fun with her carry potential and play-making abilities. Such a great support. Easily the best support they ever added into the game
Hog with mercy damage boost is unironically insane.
Hog with mercy boost:
Needs 2 heroes
Needs 200 hp squishy to be in plain sight in 20m proximity
Needs to hit their hook
Needs enemy team to stand afk for almost 2 seconds not using their save abilities
Widow:
One shots from the other end of the map where 99% of the cast can't threaten you at all
Blizz: we should take away hog one shot potential for good
Cannon duo
Spoiler alert: Mercy damage boost makes any hero feel "insane".
Nobody runs mercy to pocket a hog. thats not a viable strategy. Better off running kiriko with the Hog for when the enemy inevitably swaps to Ana to nade him.
@@masift1494 but mercy is hogs wife tho
Finally audio 🤧
As a Junker Queen enjoyer, I really really hope they don't buff her with the support nerfs! I think she's slept on right now, mostly she's vulnerable to CC and anti-heal. Outside of that, she got good utility, good sustain, and high damage with play-making potential. If supports are puntable, a knife pull can win fights. She's not _that_ weak against Bastion I'd say. Sure it hurts in turret form, but outside of it he's the easiest character to kill with her primary + so easy to hit with a knife.
Been rolling on ana.
I truly feel like theres almost no situation where you cant run ana and find success.
No matter what ana always finds value because of mostly her nade. Which in turn forces the enemy to run either kiri, LW or bap to save the person or zen to just overwhelm your team with dmg and kill you first.
And in addition to ana you can run mercy, zen and illari for highly aggressive kill potential or LW, moira, bap for high sustain.
No matter what if im losing on any hero, the moment i swap to ana or zen and start landing nades or discording the game instantly turns around and the win is easy
The only things that kept her in check in OW1 were tanks covering for each other, and you could force her to use nade on herself. Both gone.
@@concinnusthe support passive also lets her never need to use nade for herself
@@nicholasmessmer510That was my point.
"What is keeping Genji's play rate so high? He's fun". What is keeping his win-rate as high as it is, is what I'd like to know.
Im guessing it's the fact he has a lot of dedicated mains that have been playing him for years so they know the ins and outs of the silly cyborg ninja guy.
As a LW main I can say that even with this DPS Support meta, excessive heals can definitely win games. I’ve climbed from low plat to D1 this season off of just heal botting and it’s beautiful.
Would love to see the season 8 tier list and see how things changed!
I can’t even use Genji’s dragonblade half of the time. Using it makes him scream at the top of his lungs, alerting the enemy team. Not only does it get out healed, it also takes a long time to charge.
Junkerqueen imo is the peak tank experience. Either you get blown up or the stars align and you have fun for once.
The kiriko change that i really hope is that they make suzu being single target, like brig health pack, working the same way to just one ally, so that using it will require more tought on who you want to save and when, without making her fall off that much.
all they need to do is remove the invul and replace it with dr, remove the heal, make the person/s who is suzud actually have a hitbox, and just make it cleanse. idk why tf suzu is so stacked with util
i know, after the supposed "nerf" its still one of the best abilities in the game, getting rid of its multiple effects is definetly a way to go, but i think that aoe cleanse is still too strong, but who knows, im speaking as a support main in low elo btw
raise the suzu CD significantly (im talking 18+ seconds) and remove the i-frames, but slightly raise the heal and bring back the boop to compensate. then raise the CD on ana nade as well to get ahead of her becoming meta. if they end up changing the supp passive, they can consider granting a lower CD on nade when it's used solely for heal. (im an ana and kiri main btw)
Remove invulnerability from her Allies up the CD 1 for Suzu second reduce her teleport 10 meters fixed
@lovelysad_ that just makes her boring to play , gatekeeping op util behind cooldowns just makes the hero less fun to play , better nerfing/reworking the ability itself than making it a 2nd ult
Started in shorts and I needed a full tier list
As a reaper player i love it when the enemy has a roadhog its like a free healthpack
i love flats's takes about mercy. finally someone who knows her whole thing is movement and enabling and the s3 nerf did nothing but force her to play the hide behind a wall playstyle that everyone hates. also i think as long as one shots exist in this game rez should also exist.
Finally a Mercy take I agree with, as a Mercy player. As long as Hanzo snd Widow can one-shot, I see res as a necessary evil. Also, give us our old GA back, and you won’t find us hiding behind walls anymore.
@@AndersKingBee exactly!! also with the fact that other support heroes can make the whole team immortal on a much shorter cooldown while mercy can only bring one back on the longest cooldown in the game. maybe if they wanna change rez a bit they could make it so that the person comes back with only a percentage of their hp. that way she's forced to stay with them and a bad rez will be more easily punished.
@@AndersKingBeeare you talking about the three res ga ?
@@Ruby-yb8kk i think he means the one before s3, where the cooldown was 1.5 without a penalty for using superjump.
@@Ruby-yb8kk I mean the 1.5s GA that we had before season 3. :)
I used to play smash bros ultimate alot
And tbh, the tier lists were almost always consistent, (to each player respectively with their own opinions)
But playing overwatch now, I see that one patch note is enough to scramble everything around
I swear bastion was considered dog water, and now he's A tier
One of the reasons i love this game
I’m on the same boat, I played a lot of smash and never realized how much a tier list can change just from a few patches
i thought the group respawn (that i havent even taken notice of in game to be fair) was implemented (as well as other reasons) to help with spawn camp. they may have actually thought ahead for once
I love that this tier list is normally distributed
Zenyatta needs to be the high end of damage for supports. If you nerf healing the only hero I wouldn’t nerf their healing for is lifeweaver. I think lifeweaver is more heal bot than anything. I don’t know how you balance the rest but Lucio lifeweaver, Moira, zen and mercy all feel fine . It’s mostly illari and baptiste that feel way strong
Sigma never falls below average. Most balanced tank in the game for sure.
Sigma is the tank that has the least bad time in this meta
also the most annoying tank in the game besides orisa
@@armando5994 i don’t find sigma annoying at all. I enjoy having him on my team and I don’t rip my hair out when he’s on the enemy team.
He use to be very annoying considering his rock could basically snipe you from across the map and the CC was annoying, but now he’s just a balanced tank.
Feels good to watch this through yt because that chat is suffering that 2 minute unskippable ads
Every hot take about tanks makes so much sense, i had whiplash this season how different i needed to play and i had to change my whole tank roster…
I saw this post earlier I swear. Did it get taken down?
The OG post didn't have any audio so it got deleted
There was music but his voice was muted lol
Frogger's influence is growing and im all for it
I do a bit of weavin sometimes, I never understood why they added the over health to the tree I thought it was already decent.
I was sincerely expecting him to say "its been nine days since my last tier list" which is very overwatch
Supports being better than dps to dps is actually so funnny i thought blizzard was getting better at balancing back at season 5 but i was do wrong😂😂
Mercy makes me upset because her damage beam holds other characters back from reaching their true potential
It also makes her reliant on those other characters to do anything, which is boring.
As a Sombra main myself, I actually don't mind EMP being "bad". I feel like where it's at now is great in terms of power level. It offers versatile value opportunities, and can still be devastating with proper planning/timing, it's just not the big teamfight win button ultimate like it used to be, but I think that's ok. The problem is with the charge time, it should charge way quicker now that it's not nearly as strong. I think it should be thought of to some degree as being Sombra's take on pulse bomb. Charge it quickly, but it's impact is unreliable in the sense that you have to be very discreet in how you use it to actually get good value from it. With Tracer you actually have to land the damn thing, which is not easy, at least on squishies, and with Sombra you actually have to be in the right place at the right time and see the right opportunity for EMP to get value. Sometimes maybe it just helps you spawn kill a Bap. Sometimes you can blow up a Winston bubble. Sometimes maybe it denies a Mercy res when hack would be too late. But you can still get good value out of it now, you just have to think and be good at Sombra really. It doesn't need to be a teamfight winning button anymore to be a great fit for Sombra's kit. I think before she relied on having a teamfight win button because she didn't really have much value to get in the midfight, so her ult was like a crutch for the rest of her kit. Now I think shes capable of being balanced without it.
You make a lot of good points about Orisa. Counterpoint, she has no counters. There's some interplay between her and Sigma but that's because they're, on paper, pretty damn similar. Succ, Projectile Stun, and Survivability being Fortify and Shield. Big AOE Ults too.
OMGGG Flats put my genji clips in THANK YOU FOR REASSURING THAT IM NOT TWEAKING now I can sleep peacefully
just another reason to nerf genji
Ramattra is almost A tier material when there isn’t an Ana/Reaper/Bastion or Zen in the enemy team
As soon as any combination of those 4 get picked, you fall over instantly and can’t do shit for the rest of the game
I play Junker Queen against Pharah, and as long as at least 1 DPS is hitscan, it often goes well. She tries to fly in close, I can deal significant damage fast enough to where she flies higher to avoid it, then the aforementioned DPS targets her up there. It's worked more often than not. Though my tank is stuck in silver at the moment, and that probably has a big effect on the level of Pharahs I'm playing against.
This is my Birthday thanks Flats your content has been consistent and top tier thanks bro.
im so tired of ana always being a top tier pick. Like seriously has she not been a top 3ish support once in the last 2-3 years?
She's just the best character in the game tbh. Always has been
Yea she’s fasure best character in the game if she came out next season it would be the most op character ever if you really think about how good her kit is
Top tier HEALER pick i understand because she has the highest skill ceiling. IN THE GAME THO is the problem. Support Dmg is too high, and so is the healing.
Denying healing just will always be a strong ability. I don't think the games goal should be give eveyone a turn, it's supposed to be make everything as viable as possible when possible. Which is itself impossible with a game that changes so often, but its a goal.
part of why i became a dva player, nothing more fun than baiting out bad ana players' sleep dart so i can one-tap them.
Tank basically became "Ult generators" for Support players
How do you feel about making Life weavers needle shot work like the needler from halo? Make it do less impact damage but make it have an explosive high damage after you hit a bunch of shots.
sounds like he will still just heal
The real ones remember the first time we saw this video was without audio
29:56
Flats owes me money for the emotional damage... 32.. had a pet compy....
Me warching a tierlist every season just to one-trick Rein again
39:45 Brig. It's Brig. She shuts down Sombra with ease.
Thanks for doing this today.
You know balance is fucked when nerfed roadhog is playable
you might be the only person who can make a video longer than an hour and maintain my adhd attention. good job, congrats, you are very entertaining
It's crazy how the character meant to have the best survivablity has as much survivability as other supports with hardly any distance.
Sombra take is spot on. She's countered by basic peel but feels pretty good in 1v1s. I basically only use EMP in reaction to enemy ults, to deny Mercy rez on their tank or support if hack is on cool down, or if we're steamrolling, I'll just use it whenever.
If Sigma got his rock left click back, I would be more willing to learn him. Right now, I feel like my other tank picks are for viable. Zarya, Orisa, Ball, Rein when they let me play him..... sometimes monkey depending on the map.
Where does Sig come in to fill a gap in my game?
I think Sig might have the same play style as Orissa. Sustaining and applying pressure is his optimal playstyle.
@@michaeltesemma6788yeah what this guys says. I'd even argue that Sig is stronger in the poke compared to horselady considering his tools are less selfish?
@@michaeltesemma6788not in ow2 tho orisa can go balls deep and brawl and never die with baptiste pumping you with heals. Sigma can play close range but not well
@@JaronPaloneOrisa as survivable as she is can't do that, one anti is enough to kill you if are deep in the enemy line. She isn't equipped to dive on the backlines, that is why she is considered a tank bully
Emp will remain weak imo due to sunstrucked+emp combo can be so opressive just like how blade is weak because of nanoblade.
I don't mind emp being strong and the ult charge is justified. But a solid instant reload would be a small needed buff.
i find genjis biggest value is in his deflect, especially against spam comps. tbh i mostly just use blade as an extra dash reset or to bait out enemy ults… i rarely expect to get kills outta it
From a statistics pov this bell curve brings a tear to my eye
As a support main I can confirm support is no longer fun
HOORAY AUDIO!
1:02:48 honestly as a support player I’ve given up on ranked recently because it’s ended up being the supports only support each other and 2v2 the other supports for the entire match or we kill everyone else. Because of this I’ve been going into arcade and playing only supports and not healing at all but I’ll end up with the most kills every game
I am now having an existential crisis of how deep i am in Cardboard 5 rank, because this is the first time in a few seasons that i’ve enjoyed and been successful on Genji.
You should do a tier list of the best hero’s but rank all of the bad hero’s high so that low rank players play them and think they are playing the meta. It would be a great prank
Nah cause this is an actual good idea😭
People are so overly obsessed with playing “the hero the guy with a lot of followers says is good” that it ruins the fun of the game.
i actually think Doomfist is the best tank of the season overall, even being countered by orisa (not saying about tank 1v1s, but vs most of the meta heroes)
Nah, Sigma is the best one. Maybe Orisa.
at least in quick play, doom is definitely extremely good (when played right) and also the most fun. I actually feel like i’m doing something when i play doom
Very interesting takes.
Off to continue a rein one trick i go
As a Lucio main, I've adapted to using his boop to deal 25 more damage, not for positioning. The only time its good for positioning is playing keep up with my opponents and pushing them when I get in front of MY tank so they cant die since supports are so unfathomably strong that they're forced to be all 3 roles at any given time. Boop is comically bad, but at this point its fine since support as an entire role is so comically good.
So Roadhog is B tier if his team pockets him through Bastion, and we just assume Bastion is not also being pocketed or that Roadhog isnt getting focused by more than just Bastion.
So Ram CAN'T be higher than B because of Ana existing, but Hog is B tier as long as they dont play Ana? Huh????
But ram is not A tier and hog is bottom of B so they end up in the same tier anyway
Ram just doesn't have better utility than Sig and Zarya. The Roadhog placement is only if there is no Ana so it was for fun since he is getting a rework. But if there is an Ana he is C tier at best while Ram can still be good against an Ana since he has the ability (not better than sig) to poke.