Fractal Design Torrent REVISITED!
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- čas přidán 8. 06. 2024
- Leo listens! - when Leo first reviewed this case, he decided to fill all the space creating a watercooled build. Due to viewer feedback he felt a follow up answering some questions over his choices would be a good idea. he also created a new, simpler air cooled build as well - and tech Jesus Steve Burke offered a few thoughts. Well a few signs at least anyway. If you haven't already, be sure to check out Gamers Nexus - a good friend of ours!
Read more here: bit.ly/3zGQyY8
00:00 Start
00:15 Ok Leo, whats the deal mate? Steve Burke sorts him out
02:22 Leo’s review, some differences, and this time …
04:19 Hardware Setup / Build
09:20 Side panel screws
11:34 System startup and results
13:19 The two reviews compared!
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#bestchassis #torrent #fractal - Věda a technologie
I bought the case after Steve review.I saw yours after and i still buyed a 420mm AIO H170I, despite you said will be hard to mount one. Was a nightmare....I moved the 2 180 mm fans on the bottom and tryed to mount the AIO on front,pipes down. I could not do-it, At the end of the day i mounted-it with pipes up(not recommended...by Steve again)
I was lucky with the AIO , i used Corsair fan controler for all the fans and for some reason i took out the Fractal controller out,before i knew that is kaboom.
Before the build i just belived that you moaning to much.Now i realise that all you said is true,especially regarding the space in the back for cable managnent,hard drives positioning,all that wasted space near motherboard.
Respect,subscribed.
Leo here: When I had a discussion with Fractal about installing a 420mm radiator the initial response was 'no-one is doing that' so welcome to a VERY small club.
Jayz2c believes pipes up is fine as long as top of radiator is a little higher than pump block
And he’s right. Air will find its way to the top of any AIO. If pipes are up and the rad is higher than the pump it’s all good. The pump will have liquid to feed it. I believe even Steve said that if you watch his video fully. What is wrong is where you have pipes up and the pump is level with or above the top of the rad. You will the. Have the pump trying to move air. This will kill your AIO.
@@benny_1985 Steve from Gamers Nexus confirmed this too. He made a follow-up video about how people took his advice out of context and made it a lot more black-and-white than intended. Confirmed that what Jayz2Cents was doing was correct
@@KitGuruTech friend is this louder than meshify 2 xl?? Or same.
I like that there are reviewers who don't always agree with each other on different products. It doesn't make any of them wrong, it's just a difference of opinion. The fact that Leo did a custom loop and the others didn't gives people a chance to compare how the case would look with different setups.
I respect Leo and Steve, they just have different opinions, that's what makes it worth watching both. I make up my own mind about products after.
I moderate the Hardware Unboxed discord and frequently Steve &Tim suggest to watch as many reviews as possible. It's all about being informed and making your OWN decisions. Never decide from watching 1 video.
I see their opinions more like advices, the divide of their sum is what I usually go for.
*_"It doesn't make any of them wrong, it's just a difference of opinion"_*
What a nonsense. Take for example the cable management area where you're supposed to store any hard drive or SSD: they WILL run hot, period! That's not an opinion, but a fact.
@@ibslicedmitting you're a discord mod lol
I think it's great that you revisisted the case and cleared up the questions. Shows that you are listening to your audience! Keep up the good work!
thanks !
Loved the revision for air cooling, please don't assume all enthusiasts prefer liquid cooling, I much rather go with air always. Steve's input is always great but it's also great to have different opinions and different builds (liquid/custom loops as well!). Agree that there seems to be so much empty space in a build like this, while the cables seem cramped on the back with little room for HDDs. I wish makers would focus on either liquid or air cooling and make the best case possible for that use case instead of compromising and ending up with something not great at either.
That fan installation was like magic, Leo!
When you've got the knack ...
Watching this review now and i agree it was pure magic :D
I thoroughly appreciate the amount of focus on trying to stick custom loops into cases that say they support it, it has helped me make my past couple case choices. It is something most other actual reviewers ignore but your inclusion of that testing has undoubtedly helped me make better choices with my money!
"Fairplay to Fractal. There's a problem, and they're addressing it"
Gigabyte: 👀
Why you let Newegg off the hook? :(
Thanks Steve, back to you Steve!
I love the second look as you also went over some key features that was not in the first, love your energy too. An 8/10 is good enough for me to still warrant a buy from me. I can't wait to see how my custom built comes out, thanks again for the fan info too.
Really enjoyed this re-visit! Nicely done!
Both of your reviews of this case were pretty good, I thought. Being honest and talking about issues that you had made them more believable. And yeah, the case is designed with water cooling in mind as well, not just with the images showing radiator sizes that can work, but with those round fill port cutouts. I do like the case a lot but like you said there's a lot of extra space when using a standard build. Thumbs up!
Uploaded 25 seconds ago. Talk about good timing. And it’s a Leo video as a bonus.
Thanks for the build, if it wasn't for having an original O11 and a O11 PCMR version this would be a great addition. Antec's new Dark Cube is pretty good as well, just happy to see good quality case's that aren't re-hashes of old ideas.
I actually appreciated your first review because when I saw this case pop up in my feed, the first thing in my mind was this case would be interesting for a custom loop system.
how much extra does a custom loop cost vs. just going with an CPU AIO ? (approx.)?
@@harpoon_bakery162 Depends on the parts. There are some custom loop kits that would be cheaper than the most expensive AIOs, but you can run away with the cost of a custom loop pretty easily. Just the total cost of the fittings alone has the potential to match the cost of a decent AIO.
I actually love that you guys go the custom loop/AIO route.
------------------
This is also why i chose the Thermaltake CoreX71 [TGE] for my build. with you guys your review as 1 of the main sticking points because of clearly showing that both 5.25" bays can still be used even with a 360mm loop.
most people just remove those 2 bay's and call it a day.
My system with a Ryzen 9 5900x and a bequiet pure loop runs nice and cool [ at most 45C under IDLE/low load]
And this is with a ASUS strix LC RX6800xt occupying the front for its AIO. [which runs at 35C max under IDLE]
it never gets hotter than 60C even when gaming on 2 4K display's [60hz]
Nice that you decided to review this case properly this time. Good review.
Totally agree about all the space at the front. For my setup I'd want to see it shortened it by 3-4" (giving up 1 of the 140mm bottom fans) but keeping the rest the same. I just bought the Meshify 2 Compact after humming and hawing about the Torrent.
I happen to rather like all the space to the right of the mobo, and since my desk is deep it's not really a problem. Getting that extra bottom fan for air intake is part of the good airflow while maintaining low noise... I just happen to not like the visuals of the front and the "school bus" roof, but that is purely subjective.
Do you recommend installing the Noctura CPU fans in this configuration for the Torrent case? With one of the fans in the back as an exhaust rather than having it in front over the ram like most do?
I'm glad I've come across your channel. A few weeks ago (before I found your channel) I had barely any variety on pc parts.
Hi Leo, nice review :) I am thinking of buying this case, but before I do, what are your opinions on the Corsair H150i ELITE AIO 360mm cooler fitting in the front of the case.....Do you think this will work with the pipes down or not? Thanks, and keep up the good work :)
What a nice breath of fresh air. Honesty and candor form a good salty reviewer.
On several sites that sell this case it is mentioned that it will fit a E-ATX board. That is why, when using ATX mobo, there's so much space. Using a E-ATX mobo would fill the space and as a bonus, in theory, should also give more space between items placed on board that get hot (gpu,. cpu, m2 nvme drives, and memory to some extent) allowing more airflow through/over said items. If I purchased the case it would be the model with solid sides because I hate RGB lighting. Right now I have that solid sides setup on corsair 780 and it works wonders for my hatred of RGB (and it's quiet as a church mouse) but being a full tower it's a monster and I'm looking for something smaller to put my "junk" in.
I love how this revisit is basically a big "Piss off!" to all the critics of the original video. Love the content and the passive aggressiveness Leo. Never change! lol
It was simply that the first video was titled as a review, making no mention of watercooling. If it had been called Watercooling in the Fractal Torrent I would never had made my comments.
@@GBR9794 I'm simply talking about the title of the previous video, and I have said what he could have simply done to not be wrong at all. He is not wrong in this video at all.
Leo here: This second look is intended as an 'I hear what you're saying' rather than 'Go take a running jump'. We value our audience, especially the ones who can spell and have an understanding of PC technology.
@@Safetytrousers This second look was worthwhile and came out well so good news all round.
My fractal case has glass panels on both sides, maybe cause it’s the black version 🤷🏻♂️… glad to see you mounted your Noctua fan the same way I did cause I was a wee bit nervous about it lol. Didn’t wanna cover my ram but also didn’t know if it would be as effective, I also installed an exhaust fan on the back. I’ve been super happy with it thus far, excellent review btw!
I've got the Corsair HX1200W Platinum PSU which is quite a bit longer. 1. Would it fit? 2. How much cable management space would I have left?
I found you review insightful and talked about something nobody else was covering. I'm going air in mine... at least until E.K. releases a 360mm (2x180mm) rad, and mounting it up front. I feel like, with an air cooler, there's a lot of dead space at the front that needs something to fill it up. I guess you could put some 2.5" SSD's there, but I'd rather put a pump/res there instead.
Thanx Leo. How do you think, is it possible to install an Asus Crosshair VIII Extreme motherboard in it? I'm afraid that an EATX motherboard can block holes on the right side. Do u have an opportunity to measure the distance between the left wall and rubber cable access points? Could you please measure it in cm? Thank you in advance.
Thanks for the "nische" Review! :-D BTW: The Intro was great.
I love this case. Cable management is weak but going all air, this case is so quiet and it’s worth it for that reason IMO.
what about the LIan Li EVO for cable management, is it also a nightmare like the Fractal Design Torrent?
@@harpoon_bakery162 Much better IMO. I've built in it for a friend and it was completely different.
@@limmel3588 Just got my Lian Li EVO built, I love this unit. Should I load Windows 11 since I have a 12900K? I think to try to backup (with Acronis) and restore onto the new EVO from my old windows 10 (backing up with Acronis and then restoring to windows 11 using acronis), might be really rough to do. All the drives are different sizes too ugh. My old computer has 2.5 SSD, 3.5 HDD and lots of M.2 SSD, but my new one has larger SSD drives. so yea, I'm really stuck on what to do. I would really like to get some of those huge drives working on my new unit, but there's really no place to put them on the EVO because i used the 3.5 inch HDD bays for wire management. LIke i have wires stuck in the bay (i have removed the two hard drive plug-n-ply trays) so the compartment for the 3.5 inch drives is being used to stick cables into for wire management. So yea, it's hard to figure out what I'm going to do since i have SO many programs in windows 10 on my old gaming computer. But I really need to sell my old 2080TI before they become worthless
@@dabneyoffermein595 Personally, I've had better system stability on Windows 11, compared with 10. But everyone seems to say the opposite of that. Just my experience there, make of it what you will. Also, I haven't had too many compatibility problems thus far on Windows 11. When I do, they're very slight. Then again, I don't know what software you're using, experience can vary there considerably. What did you end up doing?
@@stevens1041 he ended up using W10 because W11 would crash in Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020. It just wouldn't run on 11. Loaded back to 10 and it worked like a charm. He is very happy now. He said so in another channel. I always follow what he says.
Does this affect the Fractal Design Define 7 hub? How is it possible to install multiple SSD's into the Torrent case?
Placing the D15 fan on the front of the tower can drop another 1-2 degrees off the temperature. It can be seen (7:50) that the RAM does not interfere with their classic mounting. Is there a specific reason that one of the two fans was moved to draw air from the back of the tower?
How would you put them near the front? Researching for my first build.
Absolutely correct. I'm gonna patiently wait til they inevitably make a compact version.
liked the video and review. I just bought this case. I was more worried that a radiator set up would be too tight and maybe have issues getting it in there. Glad your videos showed otherwise, I feel better about my purchase .
I've just rewatched this. I bought my Fractal Torrent in part following this review. Ironically it was Leo's complaint about all the extra space that helped sell it to me as I was using a RTX 3090 FE at the time (since replaced by a RTX 4090), which are absolutely huge. At the time I also had a Dark Rock Pro 4 and later upgraded to a Noctua DH15 and put some white covers on it which really help the aesthetics.
I just built my PC using this case last week. I think there is plenty of cable management space. I went from a small factor case to this one and definitely appreciate the extra space.
did you change the order of the noctua fans? most setups have the front fan closer to the front and over the RAM, and the second between the towers.
Go Leo! Love your reviews and opinions- respect sir!
I must admit on the first review I thought it was weird that you went custom loop, but then after seeing the results I was like ... ooo, I get it now :D.
Well, CPU temperatures are better with the air-cooled approach and I'm not sure the graphics card results are comparable (two different models from two different manufacturers).
Bought this case after watching the guys video showing the middle finger's, yours and other few. The case comes with the replacement kit for the fan hub and also has glass on the right side also, a thing i don't like...but can live with.... One thing for sure, this is the best airflow case! Only have 120 aio for my cpu, and everything else air. My rtx 3080 is cool now!
Cheers Leo, nothing wrong with the original review - though grateful for another video regardless. Also, "Torrent" I think of water first, not air.
I think of thepiratebay
I think of a good boy.
Fractal advertise Watercooling support so testing it with a watercooling loop was a good move, and you identified some shortcomings, exactly what a review should do.
I read in a lot of forums/comments/specs that Noctua NH-D15 and Trident Z Neo are incompatible because the Neos are too tall, and yet they fit perfectly in this build. What am I missing here?
Thanks Leo. It came close.. but there still exists nothing to make me give up my P600S.
It was the drive sled placement, too restricted. Love the roof PSU with floor intake, great for air builders. Would have been 100% sold if there was more room round the back.
I'm glad I ignored the advice of this review. I ended up getting this case. I also have the 3090 and it's huge...so having that extra space allows it to fit, with a bit of room. In an air based build, having room around the components allows for air to not be blocked from making its way around to each piece. Also have not had any issues with cable management...that bit keeps confusing me...I'm not sure why he's having such an issue. Anyway, anyone considering this case, id say go for it. I've had a very positive experience.
I agree that is exactly the missing point of this review. WIth the ever-increasing GPU card size, who said 4090 RTX, the value of having a larger case like this is missing. Also, I think using a rear fan is important for overall performance, as you want to create a little of active air egress close to the CPU to quickly take the heat out of the case.
As always, another amazing vid
Thanks for the video! If you have the time, would you say if the stock configuration of the noctua fans when the first fan is seated higher on the cooler for ram clearance has room to be installed when the glass window is put back on?
Against expectation, yup that works (with the hardware shown in this build, your mileage might vary, we make no guarantees about other set-ups)
@@KitGuruTech Sweet, thanks for taking the time to check!
I like your magical CPU fan install! A question.. Would it be a good idea to get a mobo with a good bottom PCI-E slot and install the GPU there, since it's closer to the bottom fans? Also, it would give the CPU cooler a bit more space, maybe that makes some kind of difference?
Usually the first PCIE slot is a newer gen and has more speed allocated to it specifically for a GPU
Very good reviews of the Torrent overall, but disappointing that you couldn't use an air-cooled 3080 graphics card for better comparability. The AMD card you used gets surprisingly hot, despite being aspirated by 2-3 fans from the bottom. What is going on? I noticed that the Lian Li Lancool Mesh achieves better GPU temperatures than the Torrent despite having the PSU at the bottom. Is that because Lian Li chose to forgo any dust filtration with their mesh (- dust filter) approach?
I've built in Fractal Meshify, and I strongly agree with your comment, there isn't enough space for the wiring compartment. Speaking from experiance here, two separate Meshify builds, panel was fitting too tight, even with neat cabling. Another 5-10 mm as you put it would have done the job perfectly.
Thanks for sharing makes sense your conclusion.
Very tempted to get one of these, just to muck around and see if I can get two 360x180mm radiators in it, with 25mm thick phobya 180mm fans, and maybe an MATX motherboard, it'd be easy, but I think there's even a way to do it with a full sized ATX board too (might require soldering front IO cables to the back of the mobo, which I am crazy enough to do).
2x 360x180 rads and a 140 rad in the rear would be a fair amount of cooling (people might think that's extreme, but I'm already running a triple 180, a 120 and a 420 external rad with my Silverstone FT02, and I have two other projects with over 2000mm of radiator surface area in them, in the works, there is no kill like overkill, and this way I can run fans at extremely low rpm and get close to silence).
I still using Old Cooler Master Haf 922 + Noctua D14 currently with Ryzen 5 3600 my both served me well in last 10 years with multiple platforms and I hope for next 10 ;) * I enjoyed free upgrade kit to mount on AM4 from Noctua I love this kind of customer support quality.
i still have my 922... even though i dont use it, i cant quite let it go... ive removed the drive bays and installed a 360mm radiator in the front, put a hidden 3.5" drive under the top panel, and even with a full water cooling loop, the inside looks barren.
Recently found your channel and got addicted
When Leo is pulling stuff out of boxes I'm actually fearful for their safety. Love it. I'm too careful.
Funny how paying thousands of your hard earned changes behaviour.
yeah, liquid leaking and making 💥💥💥
that will definetly not be boring
Leo, I like that you do "real world" builds. They might not be as pristine as what you see in marketing photos and videos, but they are closer to what many of us do. I appreciate the effort that your team puts in to create these videos.
One thing to note about GN is that they ALWAYS use the same STANDARDISED parts when reviewing a case, which they absolutely need to do in order to build a useful dataset to compare to. And like Leo pointed out, good airflow it's equally important for watercooling as it is for aircooling so they only need to test with aircooling as it introduces the least amount of variance during testing.
This is true however it leads to a number of big decisions:
1) Every few years you have to make a big change to a new platform and start from scratch.
2) You're treating every case the same where it is clear some cases are better suited to a 200W CPU and 250W GPU while others should be limited to a 125W CPU and tiddly GPU.
3) Switching out the stock fans for standardised fans does not represent the buyer experience.
$) Using a variety of hardware is more interesting.
@@KitGuruTech I agree with you, and that's why we need to watch several reviews, not just one! I'm just pointing out GN's method to explain why you'll never see a case review from them using water cooling.
I just built my fist PC with this case, I went into Micro center with no intention of buying the parts but ended up leaving with everything to build one lol. It’s air cooled and I got the Noctua D15 or whatever, so far it’s been great. I really like the case but I don’t have anything to compare it to either lol.
Will the D15 fit in the compact case? If it doesnt I wont even open the D15 when it comes. I am waiting on it.
I got the solid compact. So no glass. I am really wondering if the D15 air cooler will fit it.
i would love to see the MINI Version of this !!!
A mini version of this case would be perfect.
@1:20 Anyone else looking at that case teetering on the precipice, gritting their teeth?
Be brave. No Torrents were harmed making this video.
i wonder if they ever expanded the back panel clearance another 5 to 10 mm per your suggestion? I bet they have by now, as you are highly regarded on the internet. thanks a ton for the review and I'll buy the fRACTAL if they fix the 5 to 10 mm that's needed behind the back panel for cable management purposes
You can actually include a disk tower with up to 18 hard drive... so there is that...
I like the air cooling.
Crammed case will not have good airflow, you need open space to eliminate turbulences. When the front fan blows directly onto the side of the GPU, it creates a lot of problems.
The definition of why reviewers keep as many parts as they can. We've now seen the case in best and worse case scenarios bringing everything full circle. There's no way we don't have all the information required to use this case after these 2 videos. I know it was a little annoying but thanks Leo!
Will 33mm ram work with this case and cooler?
Appreciate your insights and just absolutely amused at how you are seemingly (to me) lightly irritated explaining your thoughts on the case when compared to the first review of it. Never seem to smile in this and that just had me chuckling. Very entertaining lol. 🤣
Thought about just drilling you own hole for the screw to work the same as the locking for the other glass panel
Your orignal review was probably the least enthusiastic one I've seen, but one closest to my own opinion and it's usually like that :] You are generally this reasonable guy with really well balanced look at cases - not airflow fanatic to te point of being ridiculous as Gamers Nexus, not always happy and focused on secondary things as looks or RGBs and - what's most important - far from stinking with liking too much with companies. You are the one I would recommend to non-experienced user to help with choosing the case :] I really appreciate your work Leo!
The first video was very helpful for anyone considering getting this case to do a custom loop in. Which Leo says is a very niche use of this case.
I'm running a multi-GPU setup, would there enough space for the bottom fans If I have a 3-slot GPU on the bottom PCI slot?
Yes, but there will be like few 2mm between card and fans
8 was a fair score and all the points you raised were definitely justified. A few other reviewers got a bit too excited about the case IMO. I like it, but there’s clear drawbacks to it. But then it’s unique, and different. So I applaud them for that. I just don’t understand the size - it’s massive. Far too big. You could build a system of this spec in an ITX chassis!
These new ITX cases are making everything look oversized, it's incredible you can have a 280mm AIO, 3 slot GPU and an 850W power supply in a shoe box these days
Look forward to the Torrent compact
Many popular Fractal cases are a few frustrating mm short of fully using their advertised features. Define 7 and cases using the same chassis needs another 20mm on top to use the 420mm radiator mount without strict component selection and modding. A slim radiator and 25mm fans would require removing the IO shroud and limiting memory selection to maybe 2 models low enough to fit. Another 2cm on top would've avoided all of this. All of their mid tower cases need another 2-3mm to route their cables without resorting to zipties and force if you want to use the back mounts for 3.5mm HDDs.
I have asked on different youtube channels. But why not mount the GPU a bit lower if there is slots available? Since, I have ordered the same case now and will use it first with a 3090 and later with a 4090. But won't have anything else in the slots.
brace yourself for the 4090 size, you are in for a rough ride to install that card.
@zedeco Late response from everyone, but I got the strix 4090 in April and it's not that big. Also, not that hard to install.
@@eriknordqvist9016 my asus strix 4070 ti is big that if i got a smaller case it wouldn't fit, in fact, the space between the gpu and the front fans is very small.
@@zedeco well, just buy a bigger case. I have the Fractal Design Torrent and it has much space left.
Hands down the most under rated tech Channel.
would want the default stock cpu cooler on this build
Would be nice with a rear fan see impact for temps.
Id really like to see somethign with the width of the compact but the hight of htis plus 3 cm so I could go rad at the front and big fans at the bottom
I never use fan headers anyway. Unless you buy a super cheap board there enough already there and with a splitter usually with 3 max.. And I have all RGB turned off so this time I will buy non RGB version! What I want to know is where I can squeeze in a third 3.5" hard drive? Maybe up by the PSU!
my main issue with it, is the PSU housing being on top really screws over anyone looking to install an AIO radiator in the optimal top position
i agree. its just open space taking up room
I think your first review was fine, customer loop is valid choice. That said I don’t like the inconsistency of the hardware used over all the different cases. Makes it difficult to compare one case to another.
Cool review.
Consider the torrent compact would be my view on this, henst ive ordered one based on the gamers nexus video
@8:03 magical
I'd love to see a mid tower or even ITX version of this case, it seems like it's just too oversized for a 'normal' build. Perhaos something along the lines of the O11d Mini in that it can support a variety of configurations without having to be massive.
FD will probably make a Torrent Compact and shorten the case, though I agree that ITX would be nice.
i agree that this case is nice one for building a custom watercooling, but looking at gamer nexus, is clear that there is still improvement on the gpu temperature, 5ºC vs the sl600m, having both intake fans to the gpu, is too much difference.
for me doesnt have stock optimal airflow configuration, 5 fans as intake creates a bottleneck, and that is why those 5ºC more on the gpu vs sl600m
Thanks!
For me the Meshify C is the perfect size for a solid air cooled system unless it involves some monstrous overly large graphics card. Despite some of its flaws it is a great size for air cooling without all of the wasted dead space. If they would put that front, the solid removable top, and the screwless side panel system on a Meshify C chassis, I don't think I could pull my wallet out fast enough. lol
It is a fantastic case, besides it's use of space. At first I was incredibly excited with all those fans, until I saw all the plastic build quality of the case. The tiny space allocated for ssd drives and psu cables further made me think it'd be impossible to work with. I pretty much need to have flat psu cables to be able to get the case. And it doesn't support aio coolers unless you remove the fans.
Just too little space to actually work with in a massive case.
Well, if it it's too large for you why not jut try out the Compact or the Nano version? Much better than with water cooling. Although I'm unsure how happy the PSU is sucking in hot air from the CPU cooler.
It's clearly a very competent case in most respects... But I'm not overly excited about it either.
It's too big and the power supply bump at the top annoys my OCD.
As someone who picked big cases for my first few builds, I cringe at inefficient use of space due to my own dumb hardware selections in the past. Anyone else own a CM stacker? Haha.
Now the meshify 2 compact is just perfect for me
I didn't have any questions regarding your choice, and liked that different reviewers all did different things. It gives a much clearer picture of the case for different builds.
My current case no reviewer used 140mm fans in the front - just noted the case could accept them. Now, if one uses 120MM fans, they clear the 2.5" drive mounts with out issue. But if one does use 140mm fans (I do), there's no clearance for drives to mount there. Is it a big deal - not really. But it would have been nice to know in advanced as I had to change my build plans slightly. :-)
You get 2 glass panels on some models of this case
agreed with your cable management assessment. if you put 2 ssds in the back, it gets worse.
Love the thumbnail.
i like the case but i wont get it if they dont add some clearance , because the case seems to be built specifically for custom loop. to me atleast