Did Medieval Lords Really Get to Sleep with the Bride on Her Wedding Night?
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- čas přidán 7. 07. 2024
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In the video today, we're looking at whether medieval lords really ever had the right to sleep with women on their wedding night.
If you'd like the text version of this video and references, you can find that here: www.todayifoundout.com/index.p...
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Ok
Huh, I remember how this was a plot point in The Wyrd Sisters.
If that Peasant girl was "HOT", its very likely that the Lord of the lands at least tried to get with her, if not down right rape the girl..
If she cried rape, or got pregnant (married or not), that Noble Lord would use his "Get out of jail free card", which is ' jus primae noctis', and walk away Scott free.. (forgive the pun)..
No.
Wanna buy a used car?
"To display my power, privilege, and virility, I'm going to risk begetting on a peasant a son who'll have a valid claim to my estate before any legitimate sons I may sire."
THIS.
“But because it’s her wedding night I can claim the bastard is her husband’s child. Unless she’s marrying a Moore and the baby is white as new-driven snow. Then I may be in trouble.”
The timing of the “right” is what made it the widely believed thing it was-the wedding night is the one time you can be near certain this woman is lying with her husband, and so any resulting child can easily be denied as a product of that union, and that is the primary risk as at the time contagion theory wasn’t really a thing. It wasn’t “that woman gave me crotch-pox.” You just _got crotch pox_ - maybe from a daemon or curse or wrongdoing or imbalance of bodily humours, but not from another person.
@@mischa2643 - The thing is, there will be people willing to use the kid. "You're truly the eldest son. You deserve the throne, not So-and-so." That would always be a possibility.
Fortunately, it was never a custom.
@@julietfischer5056 and the royalty, the nobility, would simply dismiss them, with prejudice. If they tried a, "legal," claim, the adjudicators were all nobility, or royalty, and would give zero legitimacy to these peasants claims.
As for communicable disease, this was overwhelmingly the top cause of death around the world throughout history, up until about a hundred years ago, but still is the top cause of death to this day in many places.
A death from disease or illness was commonplace, and until about 150 years ago was never understood to be spread by virus, bacteria, or other single cell organism, etc. Surprisingly many people, in many places, even to this day, this scientific understanding is doubted, if not outright rejected (in some places, it is still heresy to state such beliefs).
The lower classes were treated far worse than most are willing to consider, for much of history, so this abhorrent practice, however uncommon or widespread, would not surprise me at all.
@@Metalbass10000 - As I said, there are always those who would see an opportunity. The Middle Ages covered several hundred years and the whole of Europe. You honestly think Baron Douchebag would hesitate to champion the cause of Lord Rapist's bastard if it were politically expedient?
It makes sense. I could imagine how many attempts on a nobles life would occur if this practice was real.
Also consider that nobles were incentivized to keep their serfs contently ploughing the fields. And that throughout time and place bastard children could contend for inheritance and status. Sleeping around could and did result in conflicts from bastard children and their supporters. This was not something most nobles wanted to deal with.
Exactly my thoughts, the concept just doesn't seem practical. It's one thing to do it to captured enemies, but your own subjects? They would rebel against this more violently than any tyranny.
I think these stories were spread around as the "fake news" of those times to turn people against nobles so they could get man to risk their life to avoid that to happen to their kids.
It was so real that King Ferdinand II of Aragón through the Sentencia Arbitral de Guadalupe of 1486 or Arbitral Decision of Guadalupe, decreed that the "derecho de pernada" or "droit du seigneur" was abolished and deemed illegal (among other issues specified on the decree to free his catalan peasant subjects from onerous fees and mistreatments from their lords). Obviously the extent of this custom varied from country to country, from lordship to lordship but at the end it was more of a personal exercise... many may have exercised their "right" to do so and some may have not; we do not know whom exactly, when and where, but the fact that such law exist and specifically bans and condemns this so called "right", is proof enough that such practice actually existed and was performed at least on this area so while it is hard to proof that this was common practice everywhere around Europe it is silly to assure it did not existed.
Yes, something like THAT overrides all normal controls and the husband could go berserk.
I can't imagine them getting away with it for too long without getting murdered in their sleep.
They got away with a whole lot worse shit for a long time dood
You would be surprised what some raping douches get away (completely) with.
You think a peasant is gonna sneak in the castle ninja style and assassin's creed his ass?
@@naughtybear2187 I think there are a lot of working class people already living and serving in the castle on a daily basis who would likely be friends and or family with the victims. There are a lot more people in the castle besides royals, and there is a lot more to leadership than just asserting dominance and walking all over the lower classes.
@@tjwoosta Lords were considered divine and either had knights or were knights. If someone assassinated a medieval lord you would have an army of knights burning the kingdom down or a mass inquisition, it would just cause mass suffering.
In france we actually call it "droit de cuissage" or "right to thighs". You can still see references to it in protests signs today as jokes about the powerfuls.
You Frenchies do like a good protest.
Funny because *jus prima noctis/primae nocta* is aka "droid du seigneur" in English.
("the Lord's/seigneur's right")
Mais, c'est bon ça, savoire comment tu dis ça en France (car c'est plus ... si c'etait vrai)
I also like the hypothesis wikipedia tells us about it : it could have been a way for a pretty woman to have a child of better social condition than his/her parents, if all parties agreed to it. The parents would then receive a part of the child's money ("pension") when said child would find a job after studies. The child would remain a potential inheritant for the noble, and the child would have a better life than if he/she lived by his/her parents. All parties would benefit from it. At least that's how I like to see it. fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droit_de_cuissage
"Right to thighs??" I will never underestimate the French again.
@@choughed3072 when you have 5 paid vacation weeks per year,you have to entertain yourself one way or another.
Henry VIII's grandmother, Lady Margaret Beaufort, was married at 12 years young and gave birth to Henry Tudor, Henry VIII's father, at age 14. Her 24 year old husband died within a year of their marriage leaving her a widow at age 13.
Wait..... she was a widow a year before VII's father was born?
@@whiskerscat9287 - 9 months covers a long time.
@whiskerscat9287
That and from what I "vaguely" remember in my child development classes, do to the fact she was 12/13, her body didn't fully mature enough for pregnancy, so as such her 1st(& only) pregnancy was ESPECIALLY traumatic
Some say it was this trauma that caused her to not mary & have more kids
Others claimed her body had gone through such a difficult pregnancy that it effectively made her infertile, hence again, why she never remarried
Obviously these are only theories from what I gather but I personally don't see why both can't be true/considered
As someone who has been in Industry for forty years and seen numerous women given a choice between meeting the boss in a hotel room or getting fired I would have to say no law would be required. Common practice is never documented.
You are spot on.
Daammnn Hud....
Yes I've seen bosses abuse their power like this before too. And it's not just the threat of losing a job...there can be even stronger retaliation if they say 'no'
@@daviesdavies538 yea like a big fat raise lol.
@@fishsmell2570 mate, it's only men who seem to think swapping sex in exchange for keeping a job & no retaliation would be a nice proposal. I've rarely seen women gain much from it except be able to avoid being fired. The boss still holds the power.
Where does the notion that cats have nine lives come from?
google ?
Maybe too hard for you ?
@@Menelutorex Could Google also not answer any question on this channel? Let them ask the questions and don't put people down for it.
You never know what the writers might find that would make any question more interesting.
You've obviously never owned a cat. 😆 🐱 they just show up one day follow you home and then try kill you for about a decade nearly catching their own deaths repeatedly.
francois: Because it is really hard to kill a cat, and they will survive things that would kill other life forms.
This would be cool to know as well. There's also the cat o' nine tails...
Multiples of three are archetypal, but why nine?
Wait a minute... Braveheart wasn't 100% historically accurate?? 🥺
Sorry, none of it was accurate. Like you know the whole romance between William Wallace and Isabella (the She wolf of France)? Well it turns out that if they met at all, she was three years old in her father's court.
Braveheart is an excellent film for learning what DIDN'T happen !
Still Deubell gasp...! They also missed a bridge.
LOL I have never even seen it. But the tired old Australian playing the young Scottish warrior was certainly the FIRST clue....
Trebuchet So 2% accurate lol
All things considered the church might have something to say about this practice. Nobles taking brides on their wedding nights was bound to irritate more than a few clerics who lorded over the sacrament of marriage even if the commandment of "thou shall not commit adultery" was not always followed.
Church was and still is corrupt.
I'm guessing more than a few priests were pissed off at this.
I mean lords broke pretty much all of the other commandments. One more wouldn't make a difference.
@@rubiconnnMaybe, but when dealing with laws that might challenge the church's authority regarding marriage it's another matter. Granted it's one thing to fool around with a man's wife or cheat on your own. That can be dealt with in confession. However, when it comes to saying the marriage is approved if I get "first night" then that might stir up some animosity with the church authorities who sanctified the marriages. Remember the church could excommunicate nobles just like anyone else and that could also affect their authority and inheritances.
@@schizoidboy The king and the nobles are the ones who control the church Remember the pagan Emperor Constantine
I got a concentration in Medieval Studies (it's a few credits short of a major). The fact the Lord's Night DIDN'T happen was the first thing multiple professors hit at the starts of their classes. Braveheart did a real number on popular culture, like the myths about corsets.
In recent years, the fact that that obnoxious myth is one of ones that GRRM bought has been slightly frustrating, as it is now perpetuated again (to be mega fair, availability of information when he started writing ASOIAF was nowhere NEAR what it is today).
Not trying to knock GRRM here, though. Incidentally, GRRM's book "Fire and Blood" is REALLY interesting from the perspective of a medievalist. We're trained to examine primary sources to read between the lines and figure out what spin if any the writer has put on events, either because they believe them, eg. "Of course a pope wouldn't do X"; or because it's dangerous to write otherwise, eg. "King ______ the ______ will kill me if I say what actually happened, so I'll say . .. "; or they believe/want their side to look like they were in the right [that type of skew on facts will be very familiar to modern people].
The extant texts are FULL of that kind of stuff, it's really fun to parse if you enjoy mysteries.
I rather think medievalist professors could use Fire and Blood as an intro text to that kind of technique of seeing what bias the writer had (the writer is from the Citadel. Does someone [including the writer] from the Citadel want others from the Citadel to look good? Does it benefit the Citadel for one side to win this conflict? Why is it that the writer tends to relate "scurrilous rumors" only when they're about specific people? Why did the writer skim over that event when they paid so much attention to this one? Is there a reason there was so much pressure put on this king to marry this specific person, when others prior had so much license to choose?). GRRM did a spectacular, spectacular job making something that reads VERY much like what we actually have from history.
The sooner the Lord's Night as fact is dismissed from the cultural zeitgeist, the better.
It was so real that King Ferdinand II of Aragón through the Sentencia Arbitral de Guadalupe of 1486 or Arbitral Decision of Guadalupe, decreed that the "derecho de pernada" or "droit du seigneur" was abolished and deemed illegal (among other issues specified on the decree to free his catalan peasant subjects from onerous fees and mistreatments from their lords). Obviously the extent of this custom varied from country to country, from lordship to lordship but at the end it was more of a personal exercise... many may have exercised their "right" to do so and some may have not; we do not know whom exactly, when and where, but the fact that such law exist and specifically bans and condemns this so called "right", is proof enough that such practice actually existed and was performed at least on this area so while it is hard to proof that this was common practice everywhere around Europe it is silly to assure it did not existed.
Well it may not have been very mainstream but I'm sure that there are examples of this happening since it has happened at other times throughout history.
People with power tend to do some pretty nasty things at times.
But I'd imagine that trying to instill this is a actual rule anywhere would probably have an uprising really fast
@@magicpyroninja "maybe someone did the thing sometime somewhere cause they specifically were a jerk" sure. But culturally people have an impression that it was widespread and common and institutionalized and normal. Nope.
@@annedavis3340 A year out in adding my own two cents, but from everything you detailed; I can only be reminded of the expression "History is written by the winners"
For various reasons, a lot of things that happened were never recorded and things that didn't have been lionsed into lore. I mean the ancient Egyptians never wrote about any of their defeats, only their victories, but that does not mean their dynasties never went undefeated.
And if Lord's Night ever did occur, it's likely that it was rather rare and even more so hushed up. It was so easy then, everything was dependent on the pen and especially if it was the monarch who took a fancy - but of course he'd not want to have himself demonised in such a manner having the desire to leave a lionsed legacy.
Although if there's any good example as to why Prima Nocta is so prevalent - the likes of Henry VIII would be a good source of blame seeing as whilst he went through so many wives, he wasn't above extramarital affairs either.
I find it very impressive that your able to make such interesting videos. Being able to take a question that someone could easily Google and get an answer, then turning it into an extensive learning experience. Keep up the great work, it's always very enjoyable to see all the information you're able to bring forward
I was 39 when I got married for the first and only time. My husband was 36, and it was his first marriage. We've been married almost 22 years and it's been wonderful.
wut?
whats that supposed to do with the video
Good for you I guess
17 years?
@@rapha6872 subtract 22 from thier ages.
Ok andd?? What does this have to do with the video?
I finally did it! I found the first Simon Whistler video I ever watched! This popped up on my recommended over 3 years ago, and my husband and I have been consuming a ton of your content ever since.
Damn Simon your beard is getting winter ready ❄️
He's growing out his beard long enough to do a comb-up, and over, his shiny head.
😍
@@FaceTubeU Ew, lol I just pictured that 😂 kinda with his face poking out in the middle 🤣💀
makeshimlookold
I was just about to say it was looking extra-bushy
When he starts talking about the sponsor in the middle of the video:
*got em bois*
that was a particularly hilarious transition. I was quite amused!
A perfect time to point out "assertions made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence". On this topic, there is no evidence. Thanks for putting a nail in this legend Simon.
It was so real that King Ferdinand II of Aragón through the Sentencia Arbitral de Guadalupe of 1486 or Arbitral Decision of Guadalupe, decreed that the "derecho de pernada" or "droit du seigneur" was abolished and deemed illegal (among other issues specified on the decree to free his catalan peasant subjects from onerous fees and mistreatments from their lords). Obviously the extent of this custom varied from country to country, from lordship to lordship but at the end it was more of a personal exercise... many may have exercised their "right" to do so and some may have not; we do not know whom exactly, when and where, but the fact that such law exist and specifically bans and condemns this so called "right", is proof enough that such practice actually existed and was performed at least on this area so while it is hard to proof that this was common practice everywhere around Europe it is silly to assure it did not existed.
Simon, you're my only source of daily youtube stuff, thank you!
Sudam Hussein’s son definitely did this. He drove around looking for weddings apparently
There are historic evidence of middle eastern warlords and such using a similar tactic to build harems. The largest harem in history was made in part with the use of marriage grabbing
Uday Hussein!
That guy was quite the madlad
@jay Being a teen boy with a crush on some girl in Warren Jeff's group was nearly a death sentence. Worse still if the girl reciprocated those feelings. Yeah, he deserves to rot in hell.
@GlanderBrondurg Had to look up who this Jeffs guy was. My, what a delightful creature. 🤮
@@HovektheArtist Oriental gaslighting bullshit. If you don't know what harems were all about then shut up.
"It's good to be the king." - Mel Brooks
There's nothing good about that.
Piss bucket, where's my piss bucket.
Your majesty! You look like the piss boy!
@@wolfthequarrelsome504 Kings, imagine controlling millions of people and imagine that God will ask you about them
@@wolfthequarrelsome504 speak for yourself 😂
“Braveheart” reference!
I read this while listening to him say it!
That movie was a great work of total fiction. Nothing in that movie whatsoever happened the way it did in the movie. The names are correct, everything else is nonsense.
Freedom!
@@jojojetplane4680 Why would it make me sad and people being sad making you happy is an indication that you're not mentally stable.
Another great video. Thanks for giving good info in an entertaining format. BTW you're beard is looking marvelous💙💙
I read several texts in Barcelona that said it was fairly common for small local lords to take advantage of their power this way
Excellent as always, thank you.
How many Lords smashed the like button?
Lol! 👑
What I smashed had something like a button.
How many Lords smashed.... nvm
69 liked it before me. Well, I'm not a lord so there are still 69.
Matt Rikli - I’ll just call you daddy 😍
Good video. I’ve always thought it unlikely that such a disruptive tradition would have been practiced regularly. The confusion over paternity alone would have destabilized the local society.
imagine the amount of incest
Another great video--thanks! Just to check though, do you mean reach a crescendo? Crescendo is getting louder (often gradually), where diminuendo is the opposite.
I just realized another downside were this practice to exist: expectation. "M'lord, tonight is me wedding night and I've noticed you've barely looked at me wife, not without flinching that is. Is she not good enough for you? You'll hurt her feelings, you will. She spent an hour shaving her back in anticipation of your nocturnal cobbling of her giblets. "
Lol
Haroon Abdul Majeed is go with existed an undocumented. They probably wouldn’t see the need to document it.
I read it with a bad cockney accent..lol..
Her feelings will be hurt if she's not forced?
Cobbling of giblets 😂 wtf
I would love to see a video on the Dyatlov Pass Incident. Any chance this could come along, somewhere down the line? Love all your videos!!
Thanks much Simon for yet another exceptional video. This one in particular is of interest to me as I have had arguments with my father and brother about this very topic and the whole setup to the movie Brave heart in much the same way you said in this video. I tried tell them it was a widely spread falsehood that had been over time, taken as fact. They didn’t believe me. I can not show this video as evidence to my brother as he died on the 2nd of this past Nov. if losing him wasn’t enough, it was 2 day after my Birthday and on my Mother’s birthday. I only bring this up because I turned him into a great fan of this channel as well as a few of you others and I know the video would for sure have proved me right and changed his mindset on the subject. To my surprise, after this video and a tad bit of extra looking, my dad saw the light and came around too, claiming the video was more info then he has been able to find himself on the topic.
So, thanks again Simon, very much. I’ve enjoyed all of your content on not just this but all of your channel, especially Business Blaze, that ones just too funny. This channel helped me with that friendly argument I had with my dad and brother. It also turned my father onto your channel. I’m gonna show him some of your other ones a little later as he really like this one.
Take care Simon, keep up with the fantastic work, and from the bottom of my heart, thank you.
Steven Louton sorry for your loss.
My condolances for the loss of your brother.
Bonnie Scott thanks so much for your kindness. It mean a lot.
Linda Bealer thank you. I appreciate it very much. Y’all’s kind word really are touching and do help in hard times. I never thought it to be so but such gestures are helpful. Thank you.
Sorry this video is bs dna don't lie
www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-5570749/amp/DNA-reveals-thousands-years-social-inequality.html
One of the best channels on CZcams
I've been watching for awhile. I ain't stopping anytime soon. I luv you guys. But I gotta say to Simon , props to the beard bro. Don't take this the wrong way please, you gotta reign in that mane. If you disagree, cool.
2:24 sounds like a good movie plot. 😂
No ! There saved you 13 minutes .
Big Wrath *jokes on you! Im here for this guy plugging ads in the middle of him talking about his topic.*
Thanks
@@tombombadilofficial hey dol! Merry dol!
Yeah but I mean, the fun is learning the context and Simon's presentation so I'll still take these 13 minutes thanks
Bold of you to assume I have something better to do with those thirteen minutes.
I keep thinking this is “List 25” when I hear that music as they’d used it for years.
SAME omg
I don't know what it is about it in this video exactly but your beard is fantastic great job dude
Marvelous beard you’re rocking there, dear sir!
The shave club stopped sponsoring
😍isn't it wonderful!
@@mystic_tacos 🤣
Impeach Wolodymyr Zelens'kyj !!!
Janeen Phayne Lol I wish! But he didn’t do anything illegal.
I smashed my like button. Now, who is going to pay for my new computer screen?
I did find that fascinating, thank you.
The new intro sounds much better
Thanks, Simon!
I wish you would re -phrase the title to, " they raped" rather than " got to sleep with."
That would get demonitized
THANK YOU! And I don't like "GET TO" either - I'd say "sunk as low as to..."
@@dannysmolen1782 Get to as in they legal can do it as king. People in power get to abuse that power and can do things that others can't.
@@daraghokane4236 And if the "got to" steal from you, we should say they got to "steal" from you, not "they got to get shared with by you". They "get to" RAPE.
While I see your point I am actually quite glad it's not that title, I probably wouldn't have clicked on it. The current title gets the idea across and also sets the tone. My take is this is not so much a video essay about sexual violence against woman as it is about customs surrounding marriage and consummation traditions in medieval times and that kind of thing. To be clear, I think violence against woman is a topic that is important but it takes a certain kind of sensitivity ...and idk if homeboy here would be my top choice for presenters of CZcams videos on that topic, no shade, love you homeboy.
Anyway thank you for attending my Ted talk
This practice was a real thing when Margaret Mead, anthropologist, studied the local culture of Papua, New Guinea in the early twentieth century. The British colonists and military put a stop to it.
sounds like colonizer propaganda
@@johnmarquez7413 - You must not be familiar with Margaret Mead. She was and is a highly celebrated anthropologist associated with the Smithsonian Institute. Her work is without question except for the times she, herself, questioned.
If it's normal in your culture, then, "ahem," it's NORMAL in your culture. It wouldn't be any more objected to or commented on than spreading fermented fish guts on your food for flavor. (Dig into the old Ketchup recepies for that gem, and remember, these were things you cooked, not purchased at a store, so they KNEW what was in the condiment.)
@Trebuchet - I was not aware of this. I'll have to follow up on this. I'll let you know if you are wrong.
@Trebuchet - As in all good science, there has been controversy regarding Margaret Mead, particularly regarding Somoa. Try reading "The Trashing of Margaret Mead: Anatomy of an anthropological controversy" by Paul Shankman. The general conclusion by anthropologists is that some of her work was flawed, but that most of it was most excellent and highly worthy of study.
i thought this topic was covered previously on this channel
Still Rockin’ that awesome slightly longer beard. I approve! You wear it so well Simon.
Hey Simon i thought you covered this topic already
Prima nocta on CZcams requires viewers to be virgins. You failed the test :p
Yeah, and not only that, but he took down the original video to post this one.
The original was word for word the same because it was taken from their own article done in 2014: www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2014/09/jus-primae-noctis-fact-fiction
So not just covered the same topic, but the exact same wording. The only things different in this video are the bonus facts and the ad in the middle.
@@ConstantlyDamaged Fuuuuuck, you're totally right. Hardly an effort to conceal it.
Yeah... I watcher it recently... No matter.. Im willing here again!
Well, if you overlook slavery, South Africa, Central America, India, and few other places, then yes it did not exist.
Haroon Abdul Majeed The topic here are abuses against the lowest socioeconomic rung of society. The video suggests that because Europeans could find no law sanctioning it, it was not widespread.
Haroon Abdul Majeed You and I agree that there was never any official law sanctioning its use; that’s because in the eyes of the law most people had no rights. That’s why there had to be a Magna Carta in the first place.
That’s (in part) what the Peasant Revolt of 1381 was about. Serfdom allowed Lords to enter homes unobstructed, to trade sexual favors for largely unkept promises of reduced taxes and fees, rape wives and daughters, steal from serfs, etc. The Magna Carta attempted to fix this (mostly for the church’s benefit) by stating that ALL are subject to the law, even the king.
The abuses of the English crown against the Irish are yet another example.
This video ignores the reality of people’s lives in favor of suggesting a sanitized narrative.
Squarespace seems like a better fit for Simon's topics than some of the other sponsors he's had. 👍
In France, Salic Law ( La loi Salique) it was the Law up to king Clovis. Salic Law has it’s roots in Celtic Law.
So, _jus prima noctis_ was basically one of the first memes?
more like one of the first trolls
@@sambeck2510 not as much conspiracy, more one of many ways to show how debauched and removed from god the nobles were. (if you needed to rile the masses etc).
So... More slander I guess.
@@xyxxanx9810 what a madlad...
"The devil's double" was the movie about his brutality as seen by his body double.
@@xyxxanx9810
you should look up Thomas Jefferson.
That segue into the promotional segment! Very nice, Simon!
Your segue is fantastic! 😂
I must apologise I enjoy your content so much that I forget to press the like button but I will go back and do it to all the videos I’ve watched sorry ha ha ha I’m just rushing to the next one.
Aussie Coin Hunter CZcams
I click on this thinking you were VSauce, lol. Nice video!
My latin senses are tingling over the J at the beginning of JUS. They didn't have one basically, they used the I in its place. IUS ("Use") also gets rid if the anglified pronounciation ;)
That is a mere spec on a wonderful and interesting video, though!
At this point, Simons mispronunciations are a feature, not a bug ;)
Jus prima noctis reads to me more like a french-latin term concerning the right to drink the first juice at the evening of the fruit harvest.
First I heard of it is with Tywin Lannister thinking about Joanna and King Aerys in Game of Thrones. The book version
I first heard of this custom from the 1961 Charlton Heston movie "El Cid."
12:00 the oldest baby boomers were still teenagers by 1959. It started around '45. Both my mother & aunt were married by age 17. My mother's bff at 16 (it would have been younger but her FiL, a preacher, made them wait).
Those studies can only use records that exist. In many rural areas fairly young brides (13-15) was not uncommon in the least. Many people in those rural areas only kept personal records still only available to their decendents, if they still exist. Just do some genealogy to see, it's rather surprising
7:20 one of the best sponsor segues yet.
This video was enlightening.
Dude pleaSe do Something about the eSeS, they Sound so ducking loud, Specially with headphoneS. I love you.
Then there is my maternal grandmother who was born in 1912, married at 15 and had her first child the same year. Then in between having 12 more kids became a nurse.
Groom: "What is the meaning of this?"
Bride: "I had to. It's the law. "
Groom: "Since when does that apply to plumbers?"
Bride: "Oh, I can't even read. What do I know?"
This is funny? Women like it when they're forced, and they didn't get to be educated enough to be able to read?
@@dannysmolen1782 The funny part is that the wife cheated on the husband with a plumber and blamed it on an obscure rule.
@@dannysmolen1782 You muppet. Congrats on missing the point!
@@marccolten9801 It's like telling a joke about an African slave in the US and the punchline being something about being whipped and then people are supposed to laugh. A joke about a law that enforced women getting raped just isn't funny. I'm accidentally using my husband's name here, I'm NOT Danny Smolen, I'm his wife, and it's not funny, even if it's clever.
@@MrBizteck It's like telling a joke about an African slave in the US and the punchline being something about being whipped and then people are supposed to laugh. A joke about a law that enforced women getting raped just isn't funny. I'm accidentally using my husband's name here, I'm NOT Danny Smolen, I'm his wife, and it's not funny, even if it's clever.
11:56 - In 1950, the oldest Baby Boomers were 4 years old, way to young to get married. The low age is that of the Baby Boomer's parents who had just come home from World War II. It's when must U.S. Suburbs began being built for all of those newly returned/newly wed Servicemen and their young families!!
Was this posted recently, or 10 years ago, "As of 2010" kinda got me...
Randy Demerly 2010 was the last census... so maybe that had an effect on how recent the official info is? 🤷🏻♀️
that squarespace bit sounded like Whitelight speaking! Maybe the lockdown is making me hear things.
12:50 Divorce rates may have been declining, but so has marriage in general. So, only people who DESPERATELY want to be and stay married do so.
John Karavitis Correct. Most couples have lived together sometimes for years before actually getting married. And sometimes rather than going through the expense of getting divorced they just remain married. A close friend was married to his wife for about 30 years when she died. They had not been together for 25 of those years.
Lol...someone is trying hard to discredit marriage.
I've tried looking up the other video you've mentioned but I couldn't find it. It would help if there was a link in the description for mentioned videos.
"but Caligula!" I hear you say, "it even made it into the movie!"
So were a lot of things he wanted to do, legal or not.
So, Jus Primae Noctis is an urban legend.
Note: famous Charlton Heston film about a Norman lord
Never heard of this legend before
Charlton Heston in "Warlord" is the best Hollywood presentation.
*Ah yes, jus prima noctis. When peeing on peasants isnt enough to re-assert dominance.*
Didn't you listen to the video? It is a myth created by liberals to incite the lower classes of the day.
@@jimcronin2043 r/whooosh
Now we know the origin of the joke 'Take my wife.... Please.'
Henny Youngman WAS around during the middle ages.
@@oltedders Yep, he started with a hurdy-gurdy but switched to the violin during the church's crack down on lascivious instruments. The crank was seen as quite improper.
@@TorquemadaTwist
I remember him playing the violin during his stand up routine.
actually, back when people couldn't get divorced due to church law. You could "sell" your wife to another man instead. This lead up to men bringing their wives into a tavern with a collar and leash and putting her up for sale. What makes this custom even stranger is often the entire thing was prearranged and a specific guy would be on hand to buy her. Making it curious exactly which of the two really initiated the proceedings. Hence the phrase " take my wife "...
Simon did the exact topic (selling your wife) and said pretty much the same thing :)
czcams.com/video/yZ8wzG0J6NY/video.html
I`d like to see Simon do a video on the medieval crime of simony. Would be interested to hear what his take on it is.
SIMON: *You guys keep using The Opening-Theme Music🎶 as **_"LIST25's"_** Opening-Theme,* which has been used by them for MANY YEARS now! I'd revert back to the old(er) theme prior to this one.
I love-love-LOVE your work; whether it's *THIS channel, TopTenz, Bio/Geographics, BusinessBlaze, etc-etc!!*
Sgt_Hoagie Philip DeFranco used it for a while too, calm down.
In an anthropology class taken forever ago and now murky in my mind, the prof said the idea and stories around prima noctis sort of evolved out of ancient "sacred prostitution" practices (the existence of which are also strongly debated) where young, unmarried, virgin women would need to have sex with someone before marriage for various reasons. Like, reporting to the temple to act as a temporary priestess as preparation to getting married, and needing to sleep with the first pilgrim who asked as part of those duties (which Herodotus condemns as a practice of the Babylonians), or in specific cultures where blood is considered polluting, having a priest deflower women in order to have him deal with the pollution of the first-time blood. This then evolved from priests having prima noctis, to lords and rulers, since a priest might not be available, and the rules would be considered chosen by divine right to be rulers, lending them a bit of sacredness. There was also some of the kings sleeping with priestesses as a symbolic marriage (a practice in ancient Sumer) getting blurred into the mythos, since the medieval time equivalent of a priestess, a nun, was a virgin. But I'm not a historian and it was forever ago.
In key do, never thought about it that way.
Simon’s beard is getting epic
I doubt you check comments on videos from nine months ago, but read the fiction series "Paladin of Shadows" series by John Ringo. The Kildar (starting in the second book in the series) is confronted by the Droit de seigneur practice.
Hi Simon,
did you check your divorce rate numbers against the practice to divide the number of people by divorces and NOT the number of marriages by divorces?
This mistake happens rather often by using the skewed US-numbers.
The number of marriages and divorces should be used to determine divorce rates. The number of marriages is declining in the US since the 50s so the common mistake is to use the skewed calculation insinuating that the divorce rate is down.
If the number of marriages is down and using total number of people divided by divorces skewes the numbers.
Ooh, your beard is getting bigger! Great look!
The only thing that would improve these videos are peer reviewed academic references (APA format please)
The freshly removed guts to warm a nobleman's feet is pretty yuk
Has there every been a better midway ad segue? No, I think not.
fyi, the photo of the hands for marriage have the rings on the wrong hand - they go on the left, not right.
"Marriages where both partners have college degrees only end in divorce 21% of the time." we can't afford to divorce we need those spousal tax breaks if we ever want to pay off our student loans.
In all seriousness though I would assume it has a lot to do with both partners having had time to "sow their oats" as it were and rather then just getting married in the heat of passion actually finding people that they share a common interest with outside of physical.
Has nothing to do with 'sowing oats' if that were the case, divorce would have been higher back when fewer people ever 'sowed their wild oats' in the past.
I think it has to do with the fact that if you went to college, and your partner went to college, you are more mature and 'well to do' than the average person. You make wiser choices generally speaking, which leads to less divorce. My 2 cents.
My grandparents era had high school sweethearts marry routinely after highschool and stay together for life, including my own grandparents on both sides.
There's no basis for thsi ridiculous assumption and it doesn't follow older trends.
Couples used to get married younger, whoel virgins, and stayed together.
Stop trying to excuse and justify promiscuity you degenerate.
@Cancer McAids Mmmbullshit! They stayed married because they had an entirely different set of values, which prioritized child rearing and productivity over all else.
Divorced women should be shamed. As should divorced men.
Nobody was forced to be married. Not even evangelicals do that anymore. Now I know you're just speaking from the ass.
@@clay25420 This is normal history
Video suggestion: I’d like to see a video on who invented the fly in men’s pants and when it first appeared.
I've read that it was Gengis Khan (or someone in his army), and the purpose was to make rape more convenient. I dunno how reliable this is, I can't remember the source because I saw it years ago.
Buttons were where the zipper is, before zippers
Simon's beard is looking great! 😍
It doesn't really make sense for a marriage to occur before the child baring age given that most political marriages where formed to create an heir
Depends on the needs of the moment. If you need to secure an alliance ASAP, marrying them off quickly is your best bet.
I would really like that hoodie😊
wait... isint the median number of a group just the middle of the number range? so if the numbers ranged from 1 to 9, the "median" would be 5, while if there was only 5 total numbers used as: one 9, three 1s and a 3, the "median" is still 5, the "mean", or average would be 3, while the "mode" was 1.... why do i still remember this stuff?
A part of premise of this video is based on the concept of marriage from a modern standpoint. That's fine for Middle Ages, but marriage in today's form is actually a somewhat recent contrivance (from a historical perspective). In some periods, marriages where handled as literal contracts that didn't necessarily include the "till death do us part" clause in a manner that was meaningfully enforceable. And, secret weddings happened all the time, only to be annulled or simply forgotten about as one or the other simply moves on. There are still some cultures today that view marriages as an at-will arrangement, where either party can just literally walk away (similar to how we view bf/gf relationships in Western Culture).
Regarding 0:50 jus primae noctis in Mel Gibson's 1995 movie "Braveheart", there was also the same sort of droit du seigneur in Charlton Heston's 1965 movie " The War Lord". Watch it @ czcams.com/video/x9NjECKcDcM/video.html
This kind of thing probably isn't going to end well...
_Abuses are established, they are tolerated; they pass into custom; travelers take them for fundamental laws._
~Voltaire
The music always makes me think the damned ice cream truck is coming up the street.
Good Humor.
Common sense will tell you that this really did happen, maybe not frequently or as a rule, but just imagine a feudal country with lords that had something resembling absolute power and young peasant girls who as often as not were pretty hot. And you don't think they took advantage of this?
The exploits of Uday and Qusay Hussein are pretty much an Arabic take on this.
That puts an end to the plot of "the Marriage of Figaro"....