The National Dex Was Always A Mistake
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- čas přidán 15. 11. 2019
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This opinion should be both uncontroversial and popular. Shoutout to the Dexit discourse for giving me yet another excuse to get on my soapbox and shout about how GameFreak's conservatism hampers their game design.
Editor: Phoenix Goldsworthy
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The best decision they have made in recent generations was Regional Variants. A way of increasing the number of Pokémon in a game without increasing the total count so fast and in a way that gives them a reason to be there. Part of me wishes that they had started doing it all the way back in Generation II.
Well, maybe gen 3. Kanto and johto are right next to each other, so I highly doubt there would be any means for divergent evolution.
i think that it was introduced at a good time honestly. I think that introducing it too soon could’ve made the series more contrived and confusing and also I think that the idea that within the different parts of Japan (Johto, Kanto, Sinnoh, Hoenn) all having radically different species of the same pokemon is a little extreme. I think it was introduced at a good time, Gen 6 had already some crazy innovations with Mega evolution that felt massive, and Gen 8 would a weird time to start given how close it is to Kalos.
@@robplaysstuff6029 That is an excellent point, I do not think I had considered the real-world regional correlations. Danke!
Gen 2, 3 or 4 makes almost no sense...they're too close together... Alola was almost the perfect time... either that or Gen 5....
Though I do worry they'd do too much to make the regional variant better, making the game feel more boring... and maybe too many regional variants...
I mean, in the end, regional variants are just new but similar Pokemon with the same name...
I like Regional Variants, a creature is not going to look the same or evolve into the same creature, a creature is going to evolve differently on different continents and islands so have Regional Variants make more sense and is more realistic.
“I’m not saying the next game will be an amazing open world BOTW experience.”
That sure aged well.
This is why I said there needs to be a side game like Pokemon Stadium where players can battle online, local, and ranked and use Pokemon from Gen 1 to Gen 8
That's what Pokemon Home *should* be.
Through The Watcher's Eyes That’s not a very good idea and I don’t think it’s going to work.
The Stadium games and Battle Revolution needed the animation bump to sell because most people aren’t going to pay for just the Pokemon battle system, and even Battle Revolution had to recycle animations and models from Stadium 1.
If they had to make new high quality animations for more than double what was in Battle Revolution that why wouldn’t they just use those in the games like Genius Sorority?
@@hibubgames7667 Easy, the thing is, graphic is not an issue, people would have no issue playing this game regardless of its graphic as long as all pokemon can be access there, the game graphic itself can be updated when GF has the time.
But guess what, this has no value because a thing called national dex exist and they are many year too late to cut it.
P2P Self Puppet The sales of Pokemon Sword and Shield after cutting more than half the Pokemon shows that having all Pokemon isn't something people care about, you would need good animation like the previous battle simulators to get people to care.
What does the second part of your comment mean.
@@hibubgames7667 If the national dex never exist, people wouldn't seen having cut off now as a problem and the Pokemon Stadium that the guy suggest would be forever used. By the way, the increase sales of pokemon sw and sh is not the graphic (or very minor of it), but mostly because they are pure pokemon fan and would suck off almost anything that GF offer. Like how the same soccer game are being sucked off largely every time by its fan.
By the way, I see no new feature aside from the rotom hybrid bike and air taxi. The rest are either from some of the previous pokemon game or pokemon go.
You make a very good point about innovation, and I would be completely fine with the pokedex cut in s&s... if they actually used it to innovate... which they didn't.
In fact, Legends Arceus looks like what s&s could have been if they actually did something with the extra resources the dex cut granted them.
I personally don't think SwSh were ever going to be like Legends Arceus, the first new generation on Switch was never going to break the mould much, but I still think it was a really fun experience and without it, Legends Arceus couldn't be a thing moving forward, I'm really glad they're actually innovating now and I think SwSh was a pretty great gen 8 to set that up!
@@lilliefluff I mean, as another example of what you mean, compare Diamond and Pearl with any game in gen 5. Both were made for the DS, but one was clearly more advanced then the other.
@@willofthewinds3222 There's just one issue with what you are comparing.
Gen 4 was going to be nearly a launch title for the DS, until project delays set in.
Gen 5 was literally the last games that came out on the DS, having an entire console generation come and go that allowed you to refine how you make a game is such an obvious learning curve that I don't think the dead horse needs beaten too hard.
While Gen 8 was the first games on the Switch, so having some flaws is to be expected. The Switch came out in 2017, that was when consumers got their paws on it. Ultra Sun and Moon released 7 months later. When Sword and Shield, in many ways, looks like an upscaled 3DS game. That's just not what anyone expected.
The wild area and dynamax battles are definitely innovations
I get the feeling that gamefreak personally just made SS just Okay, in order to test what the switch can handle, so that when they did bring something ambitious like Legends Arceus they didn't need to worry about getting a feel for it and could focus on making a great game.
I have no evidence for this, and it is just a random hunch
This is so hard to put into words. But I'm determined to get this comment right for the algorithm!
In generation 7, there wasn't an "official" national dex. It was the first generation I got the shiny charm for completing the regional Pokedex. Not having the national dex in that generation didn't impact me negatively at all. In fact, it was the first generation I finally got to have the shiny charm!
Generation 8 though, has a problem. Gamefreak listed specific reasons as to why they were cutting the national dex. When the games launched and I looked for those reasons, I didn't see them. Animations look reused as ever with the only difference being the resolution from the Switch. Heck, not even five minutes into the game and Hop is doing the same dance jump thing that Hau does!
Fact of the matter is, Gamefreak lied.
And that's what I'm upset about.
But not upset enough to lash out at anyone of course because that's wrong and if someone actually does that, they need legit help.
You wana cut the national dex to improve the series? Fine. Fair compromise.
But cutting the national dex without making any improvements? No.
i remeber seeing videos about this and there were multiple interviews and they didnt stay to consent which it isnt lying but in fact either mis translated it happens or maybe they wanted it go and couldnt think of a good reason for it to be gone but it also it doesnt help that pokemon is being yearly release and that doesnt help much, if this game was announced say this yr or maybe next yr and released next yr, u would have seen tho changes bit more.
@@smoldeer2626 According to the interviews I saw, Gamefreak made it clear that there were three reasons for cutting the national dex. Balance improvements(which I haven't gotten far enough into the game to comment over), having to remake the sprites from scratch and drastically improving the graphics.
While I can't say for sure if the balance has changed or not as I'm not far enough in, I can for sure say that the animations and graphics do not look like they were made from scratch. The only difference is the Switch displaying them in a higher resolution.
Honestly, I think Gamefreak cut corners on Pokemon so a game called Little Town Hero could exist, as there was an interview on Video Game Chronicles which revealed that Gamefreak had two development teams. One that worked on new, original titles and one that worked on Pokemon. It looks like it was the split development staff which resulted in cut corners, as two of their three reasons stated have not held up so far.
@@jennyperpa5302 toby fox stated it was a small team that did this as a passionate project and ur forgetting a third reason, which i do remember seeing the interview, which is to include new features for pokemon instead of being held back by the nat dex. Also yearly releases r more of a factor then saying a game company cut corners.
@@smoldeer2626 Introducing new features has always been a core part of Pokemon that never required other components to be cut.
Remember the season cycle in Black and White? That game had a national dex.
Remember Heart Gold and Soul Silver having Pokemon that follow you? That game had a national dex.
Remember X/Y's Mega evolution? That game had a national dex.
And this was all done on hardware that was far more limited than the Switch. But the moment Gamefreak puts Pokemon on a more powerful console, things have to be cut despite having more processing power? Something doesn't add up. Never before in Pokemon history has feature additions required things to be removed. Why now?
@@jennyperpa5302 when is the last time pokemon core mechanics changed. The core machines r
Getting a starter
Meeting the professor
Rival/rivals
Challenging gym / trial leaders
Champion
Some story
Evil team
The last one do that was gen 7 and that didnt have a nat dex while u could trade ur older ones, if they werent in the dex they didnt have a description. Look as much as i wanted them to delay it, they couldnt, they have other things like anime and cards and merch. Those things were probably about to be ready for launch. Heck they reason they told animal crossing about stuff was well they didnt say anything about new leaf for two yrs and finally giving fans a release date. Those two yrs were probably frustrating to be a fan, thats y they did, heck even before getting a release date for the switch animal crossing game they were ready to blow, they didnt wanted it to be like last time. And to say gamefreak never listens to fans they did give oras when they could have just given us pokemon z. People shouldnt focus on the dex, its yearly releases. Do u want yearly releases of a game, even tho it would expand much better if u give it room between games. X and y is proof of that, the story is not the best and they didnt expand on the rivals as much as they should have. The gym leaders / the rest of ur rivals didnt help in climax of the story. So y we did get a gimmick and crap story, it was released the next yr after black/white 2.
11:20 open world
200 new moves
300 new pokemon
And fairies from the heavens
Me after reading about scarlet and violet: You got one right so far.
Arceus, too
@@pineapplefrostyfruits9225 Arceus isn't an open world game.
pla is kinda open world too
@@MrRafaeltrainer it’s kinda like one tho, it’s like a closed world but open area thing, whereas the routes in other games are rather linear paths you just run through
@@TTMILKYTT True, for the game to be called an open world it needed at least let you free to roam to anywhere and not being locked behind story progression
You CAN explore there but there gonna monster gonna wreck you there for being low level
PLA kinda like Semi open world
I mostly agree with this video and expected that national dex to collapse at some point, tho:
1. Part of the backlash is due to GF's awful PR on the issue. We don't know what Home exactly is beyond some sorta storage thing that may or may not be free.
2. The actual execution is a bit wonky and comes off as GF taking their "keep buying all the games to get all the pokemon!" strategy to the next level. Some incredibly unique (and useful) mons like Smeargle got cut in favor of obscure/forgettable stuff like Basculin. You could say it's to keep certain regions unique but considering how hard Sw/Sh gasses up Charizard, that's not too much of a concern for GF :P
3. Sun/Moon almost didn't have the national dex and didn't even record non-Alolan Pokemon, thought you'd like to know that
Game Freak are spectacularly awful at communicating, yeah. It's almost parodic how poorly they sell their design decisions to the public.
you have to go out of your way to get national dex mons in the story too... and if you want to "ruin" the story for yourself i dont see how this can be twisted as a fault of the national dex and not the player.
I agree with everything you said except your gripes about which pokemon are picked.
Like... My favorite pokemon is burmy. It wasn't in this game, but the reason why wasn't because it was unpopular- because if that was the case mon like basculin and delibird wouldn't have made the cut. I think we have a good balance between popular and niche, and if basculin got in maybe burmy'll be in the next one. Or smeargle or anyone else's favorite that isn't one of the popular ones.
1. PR is just PR.
2. The only people who care about those Pokemon probably should apply deodorant.
3. Oh well.
okay pewdiepie fan
I also think that they should have gone all out making the first HD home console game and expanding from there on, instead of having missing features and adding them in future games. This is not the 3DS anymore.
One rumor goes that Game Freak's higher ups were expecting the Switch to fail, or were expecting to make at least one more mainline game on 3DS, but then the success of Let's Go made them switch development over, and that's part of why Sh/Sw ended up rushed.
@bruh moment It's a reasonable theory.
@@TBSkyen then they should've taken more time to develop it
@@thomastakesatollforthedark2231 they were in a rush
@@thomastakesatollforthedark2231 fans are also the ones keeping gamefreak on the short time schedule
One of the main reasons I was disappointed is because GameFreak put a lot of new features to make competitive battling as accessible as ever, allowing you to improve IVs and change the natures of Pokemon.
..And then they completely gut the Pokemon selection limiting the potential of this feature. I just think if they were going to remove the national Dex, waiting until they moved to switch and bumped up the price point and the expectations of the consumer alongside it was a really bad move.
If Pokemon was going to sell me on a reduced national Dex they needed to make this the 'breath of the wild' of Pokemon but I am not sold that it is and I am not convinced it was worth the trade off.
Why are we paying extra for this one GameFreak?
@@chadachi3970 Yeah, we basically had the TCG problem, just carried over to an RPG; balancing a small self-contained group of mechanics is always easier than balancing, and taking into consideration the effects of, old mechanics.
@@chadachi3970 I am fine with GameFreak keeping their hands out and allowing players to organize their own tiers and formats from NU to OU. I don't expect GameFreak to balance it, the organic meta we had before worked fine.
I will be playing more Pokemon showdown online then this one for sure.
THIS.
@@TheDJYosh How many official tournaments are there thats balanced around the Smogon tiers?
Bet you dimes to dollars that Nintendo care much more about VGC than anythiing else
its funny right as smash gets more competitive and nintendo finally sheds a light on it competitively pokemon competitive gets gutted on the main stage for everyone to see. i guess it wouldnt really affect VGC that much which is the official one right? but i cant see picking the top half of pokemon and the bottom half will make for good balance, ppl would still use the top half... its like cutting OU andNU in half and making it its own tier. but hey lets see in tournaments if theres more variety right? even in smogon the tiers have been going kinda crazy with the sheer quantity of pokemon.
Im more scared of them making pokemon ultra sword and ultra shield and bringing back the national dex as its biggest selling point
Don't be. They said the National Dex is dead from here on out: www.usgamer.net/articles/pokemon-sword-and-shield-interview
Rory Keane yeah, they will just add a small bit of content, and then ask for another sixty bucks. And people will buy it.
There's more monetary incentive to keep the full dex out, and theyve said this is how theyre going to do it for the foreseeable future.
@@rorykeane3367 They also said they created all the models from scratch. They also said they were never cutting the dex again after LGPE. GameFreak says a lot of things.
I'll be pissed if this happens.
I’m excited for Pokémon Union, where the devs form a union~
that "worker solidarity" comic with the scared pig except the workers are GF and the pig is TPC
"Literally no one Captures all of the Pokemon"
But I did up to Ultra Sun :^)
my condolences.
you are the 1%. you madlad.
That reminds me. I had the National Dex complete in Pearl.
Me too were the minority
And you are a literal nobody so point proven.
I did as well, for me the hunt even for those event legendary pokemon was what I enjoyed! Chasing the Sprites and dogs when they ran constantly to a new place on the map, things like that was just that little bit of pain that made catching them worth it :)
"Nobody catches all the Pokemon!"
I did....in Alpha Sapphire...
Mostly through trading on GTS.
Shh, you literally don't exist.
Dude is one a thousand
Yo, I completed my NatDex in Omega Ruby! Congrats, man!
@@Neenscrame
I'm a female, but thanks!
@@DrawciaGleam02 My bad, but it's all good.
My issue with the removal of the national dex is that they decided to come up with excuses for why they were doing this, honestly I agree to an extent, the national dex is excessive and unnecessary and I wouldn't have minded it if GF had just said that there wasn't going to be a national dex this game .
However they decided to make excuses like "uhhh we couldn't do it because we were making new models and animations for all the pokemon from scratch" something that certainly doesn't seem to be true.
In your gameplay upload alone I saw so many cases of re-used animations ported directly from sun and moon. some of Hops overworld animations are literally ripped from Hau (your rival in sun and moon) for gods sake! I am also incredibly underwhelmed with the designs of the majority of the new dex, Chewtle for example feels uninspired to say the least and there is a certain pokemon (that I wont name in case skyen sees this before encountering one) that looks like an artist looked at a pokémon (that didn't make it into the game) and was like "hey what if we made this X type".
In conclusion I would have had no issue with the decision to remove the national dex if they had just said it how it was, because the way they dealt with it reflects poorly on them
(sorry if this came across as ranty)
I know you won’t say the name since spoiler for other, but I have no idea which Pokémon you are talking about. Could you maybe say the dex number or type combination so I can figure who it us
that's not what they said
@@swebartender4697 Rock/Fire
@@King_Gum I'm paraphrasing
@@a_shadykridara4396 Paraphrasing would be "we were gonna cut the DeX eventually, and decided to do it now since the switch required higher quality animations and models anyway"
The dex was not sustainable as Skyen said. They knew that. They only decided to cut it now because the switch is much more demanding than what they'd been working with before, and the jump in workload would've been too much to hit deadline
I disagree with you and that's fine.
Yes I agree with u
I don't agree with him either or at least mostly.
I mean, I can get used to a lack of National Pokedex in a game where the working on 1000 Pokemon or more can greatly damage the non-lazy effort of other quality (and obviously that didn't work out), and maybe they could just patch the rest in later and hey, this video did make me think about that maybe.
But I certainly cannot agree that it "hurts" the story because I don't really see any evidence (granted I can't remember everything about Sun and Moon) that the story suggested that bringing in ANY Pokemon from outside of the region "ruins" the environment or enough where it's bad by the story. The game (including some past games) did involve destruction of an environment due to evil people, but if I could remember right, I think that was focusing on the catastrophic Pokemon and on top of that, the same story LITERALLY allowed trainers to CATCH the ultra beats (the very same Pokemon that was spawned to destroy the world) probably showing that it was more about specific Pokemon being wild would damage the environment.
I care about this argument so much because if I agreed with the thing I really don't, it means I would agree that adding ANY Pokemon from previous regions would be a "mistake" and that's just a really bad argument. If the story did really say what he claimed, then the story is probably flawed due to other evidence. Not only that but the national dex is optional, and the game doesn't need to be entirely realistic.
You are the first person on the opposite side that I seen is very mature to someone disagreeing with them...thank you
I've been looking over his third and fourth reasons and I just have to say Colosseum and XD Gale of Darkness exist.
They changed a Pokemon from being the traditional I want to be ones to actually having double battles where you actually have to use strategies.
Which are you playing those games really makes me wish that was an option in the main line games just for doubles.
Cool
I only think that every starter should come into every game since starters have another extremely personal level for most players
That'd make no sense since it'd defeat the purpose of introducing new starters for each generation.
@LuznoLindo that like sayin it would defeat the purpose of ever making new pokemon if old pokemon are in new games lol
@@platina1502 Out of respect to Skyen, I'll overlook you mocking tone and ask you a question instead:
Why exactly do you think every Starter should be added to the current games?
@LuznoLindo its not ment to sound mocking and i already said why i think starters specifically should be in every mainline pokemon game
@@platina1502 Very well. I'll admit, however, that I shouldn't have come at you like that in the first place. And for that, I apologize.
Pokémon did not execute any of the changes you suggest by removing the national dex. They didn’t redirect resources to improve aspects. There’s still drops in frame rates and the world feels like a .5 step up from Let’s go which abandoned all that the franchise has done over 20 years.
Meanwhile, PLA and SV look absolutely amazing. Meaning they did cut the NatDex for a reason.
@@Orangeninja5000 "absolutely amazing" lol
@@Orangeninja5000 Absolutely amazing?
@@Orangeninja5000 Absolutely amazing??? Is this sarcasm? LOL
@@reingamingchannel5540 Nope
This is going to be an incredibly long response that I doubt T B Skyen will actually see, but the arguments presented in this video don't hold up. And I shouldn't have to do this, but I already typed out an entire freaking novel anyway, so:
Disclaimer: You're allowed to like whatever you want for whatever reasons you want, even if those reasons don't make sense. Your feelings and opinions on the matter are your own, no one can challenge that. I'm going to try and be as objective as possible, but this is something I'm quite passionate about and obviously have a bias towards, so yeah -- it's going to come across as inflammatory at times. Don't take it to heart. I have nothing against TB Skyen or anyone else who isn't on "my side" of the controversy, I'm merely offering counterpoints to the arguments presented.
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{ #1 "Literally nobody captures all of the Pokemon." }
That statement is blatantly false. There's nothing to actually argue here.
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{ #2 "The National Pokedex is a huge waste of resources!" }
Fair enough, but remember that Pokemon is literally the single highest-grossing media franchise *in the world*. And that's not just about video games, they're the most profitable franchise of *all media*. Of all time. In. The. WORLD. They have the resources to spare, and then some -- and then some more. And this point is completely ignoring the fact that they already found a way to work around this limitation by future-proofing all of the 3D models. Most of the work involved with porting the Pokemon into Sword and Shield is already done, and has already been done since before X and Y released. There were only 81 new Pokemon to model, the rest were already finished.
As for the point that the more Pokemon that are added, the less likely anyone is to ever complete the National Dex: Sun and Moon already solved this issue. There was no National Dex, but you could still transfer every Pokemon in anyway. So completing the Pokedex was a realistic goal for anyone, and the people who want to collect *every* Pokemon -- and the people who have favorites that they want to use -- still could without ruining the experience for others who find it too daunting.
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{ #3 "The National Dex kills invention and innovation." }
This is ALSO blatantly false. Or rather, the points made about the battle system are. There have been changes, the most notable ones being the division of Special Attack and Defense AND the addition of two new types in gen 2, the complete overhaul of how stats work in gen 3, the special/physical split in gen 4, and another new type in gen 6.
"Pokemon HAS to be designed so that every move, every type, every effect from a past game will still work exactly the same in every future game".
No, it doesn't. And it hasn't been. All three of those examples have already changed, and continue to change with each new game. Did you know that Poison used to be super effective against Bug? Or that Steel used to resist Ghost and Dark? That confusion used to be a 50/50 chance of your Pokemon hurting itself? That Speed used to influence how likely a move was to be a critical hit? That Sucker Punch used to have higher priority? That you used to be able to paralyze Electric types? I could go on, but I think you get the point. Isn't it funny how all of those things CHANGED in such a way that they DON'T work exactly the same?
And the statement made after that... "And yes, I know the games have made changes to specific effects and stat calculations and type advantages every once in a while, and even added a few new types over the years, but the fundamental mechanics have remained EXACTLY the same." You DIRECTLY contradict your own argument. In the same sentence. Is this video actually a satirical skit that went over my head, or...?
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{ #4 "The National Dex breaks the story telling of Pokemon games." }
...I'm sorry, what?? Firstly, just because there were THEMES about invasive species present doesn't mean that was what the STORY was. You summarized Sun and Moon's plot but then riiiight at the end there, you sneak in that little "which you do by assembling a team of native species" bit. Give a SINGLE example of your Pokemon being native species being AT ALL mentioned in or relevant to the story. Just one example. I guarantee you won't find any, because there are none. You just completely made that up.
And secondly, even if that *did* hold any water, (which it doesn't), that's JUST Sun and Moon you're talking about. How does that apply to Pokemon games as a whole? Last I checked, beating Team Rocket and becoming the Champion has nothing to do with invasive species. Nor does the story stopping the world from flooding/drying up. Nor stopping Cyrus from literally remaking the universe from scratch. Or Team Plasma advocating for separation of people and Pokemon. Or Team Flare doing... er... whatever the heck their generic, forgettable plan was. Invasive species is only ever a relevant theme in Sun and Moon -- and that's all it is, a theme. You're not "whoopsie-doopsie, doing exactly the same thing as the villain" by transferring in Pokemon. You're not "introducing them into the islands' ecosystem" by doing so, either. Your own personal head-canon doesn't dictate what actually happens in the story.
You do bring up a good point, however: that the National Dex takes away from the experience of each new generation in regards to exploring and learning about all the new Pokemon. But that can easily be solved *without* sacrificing anything. In fact, it already HAS been. Enter Pokemon Black and White versions. Until you finished the story, there were *only* new Pokemon. Nowadays these games are lauded for exactly that reason, despite Unova's Pokemon themselevs being pretty divisive. They gave long-time fans an experience they hadn't had since their introduction to the series -- and they did it WITHOUT taking away 52% of all Pokeon. They did it without taking away ANYTHING. And for the people who genuinely don't care about that aspect and just want to use what they want right out they gate, they still had ways to trade over older Pokemon before finishing the story. Everyone wins.
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So no, the National Dex was NOT always a mistake -- at least, not going by the information present in this video. I'm open to arguments on the matter, but those arguments need to actually make sense. What this controversy all boils down to is GameFreak cut content without giving us an actual reason why -- and the fact that they LIED about why means that they know we won't like their reason. If you're designing a product knowing people won't like it before it's even finished, you dun fucked up *big time*.
You're obviously allowed to like Sword and Shield, and to even like that they cut Pokemon. And I mean I obviously can't tell people what they can and can't defend; but when you're defending something, and the rationale behind your defense doesn't make any sense or is even just contradictory and factually incorrect, you can't be surprised when people get all worked up about it. And regardless of your stance on removing Pokemon from the games, *no one* should be ok with defending GameFreak lying to us. That is *objectively* a very shitty thing they did, and people are 100% justified in having a problem with it. Fans have gladly overlooked the series' numerous flaws over the years, but this is the straw that broke the (now non-existent) Numel's back.
I do read all my comments. I don't respond to most of them, but I do read them.
I love how you go all “this is just my opinion okay I don’t want to hate on anyone uwu” then the argument is just “ this is false, I will not explain why, you suck”
And yes the video was way over your head, you sound like you just pissed off lmao
@@k.nguyen7895 It's been two years, but I feel like I explained myself pretty thoroughly. Is there something you'd like me to elaborate on for you?
I still feel like no one really lets the "Highest grossing media franchise on the planet" thing sink in. They are capable of so much more in their games.
Great comment. You explained yourself very thoroughly don’t listen to k. Nguyen. I haven’t played a Pokémon game since sun and moon and as you said I have no problem getting rid of the national dex but I couldn’t go on playing Pokémon with more than half of them being cut out (honestly never really cared for the plot and mostly just focused on the online battles).
I’m not that mad about the dex cut...
But I do miss Ekans...
Serzano 05 same but with Ampharos and 3 more
@@Selachi0 Heracross is in the game
Tbh I just want mega evolution because mega banette is my favourite mon
Don't worry! You're sure to see him in a future gen! 🤗
Get this man his ekans
The main problem with porting every pokémon to each new game isn't what people think it is. GF for some reason changes art styles with every single release, rather than staying with one for a few years like they used to, so for each release they change the textures of every pokémon, even though the models are the same and were made with the intention of future proofing every mon so that they could be used in every future game. Remember that SWSH shipped with the data of the missing pokémon, simply with their values changed to zero. Anyone with a decent knowledge of programming (lists and databases) will tell you that porting all the information required for a pokémon is not all too complicated, and that's something ILCA proved last year with BDSP, which runs on Unity but the mons are still compatible with Home and other games. Heck, GF has proved it themselves by making every pokémon available in previous games, and it was a smaller less experienced team back then.
Ah yes, removal of nationaldex did so much for quality in sword and shield
If not now the dex would have been removed later.
sucks? yes.
inevitable? yes.
@@JDReC100 the game size is 1/3 of odesy and botw. They could have done this in a better way.
@@palharaldrindal4871
you are correct. they could have done better. but that doesn't change the fact that the dex would still inevitably be removed.
edit: also....i feel the team who worked on the games is getting hit with franchise fatigue, as well as the realization that it doesn't matter what they do since the pokemon company will get more money from other sources than the main games.
which sucks for consumers.
@@JDReC100 all games that were helped by satorou iwata are incredible, especialy the console ones.
Stadium1.2, colloseum, xd, battle frontier were not made by gamefreak.
And i pray that the pokemon company lets someone else make a mainline game
@@palharaldrindal4871 better for competitive
"That's how you get people to click on your Videos on CZcams"
Me: *literally just watches bc it's a TB video*
I just call it click bait but whatever
@@tvheadted2441 Your opinion, I'm a fan from him
My issue is that. We have our favorites. I am lucky to get Swampert in Sword and Shield eventually, but I think it is unfair for players not to see their favorites within the games they play.
that's inevitable, the national dex was carried over two decades
The way I always see it, if you want a certain pokemon, just play a game where that pokemon is available. My favorite Pokemon is Torterra, but if I wanna have Torterra in a Pokemon game, I'd just play DPP or BDSP.
@@PlayerZeroStart the problem is that people want to use certain Pokémon to battle and they can’t because of this. Me personally, I couldn’t give any less of a shit about any mainline plot past gen 5. The only reason I bought gen 6 and 7 games was to battle online using Pokémon considered useless, which was fun. Haven’t bought a Pokémon game since sun and moon and I probably won’t ever again unless they fix this.
I mean why do I have to travel fucking 5 generations back just to play with a Pokémon I like lmao
it's been me and Fearow against the world since 1998, and it'll really suck to lose that.
all i want is to able transfer my oldmon AFTER the post game,, i guess that's too much to ask
and no,, it's not about to literally catch em all,,, it's about the ability to choose them...
You choose your pokemon after finishing the game?
@@emperortgp2424 yes for post game and competitive battle and to bring pokemon that had specific memories with over
@@DimentioMOD
The metagame will evolve around the fact that certain pokemon are unavailable. For that reason unavailable pokemon are irrelevant to the competetive scene.
And as for the second point: I don't understand how it's possible to get attached to a certain pokemon, they're literally just bits of data. But to each his own I guess.
@@emperortgp2424 Our pet, family and friends are just a bunch of intelligence walking meat, I don't see why there is a need for attachments.
To each their own I guess.
@@p2pselfpuppet796 Exactly, the universe is just a combination of atoms governed by laws we don't even fully comprehend so why even care about anything at all amirite
An ad played at 3:08 or eight when you said “number one.” And I found it funny to imagine that an Irish beer ad is the first reason why the national dex is bad
Well, get drunk enough and any CZcams guy's bad opinions probably seem better :)
@@TBSkyen well I agree your opinions well I can't say they are wrong because they are opinions but I don't agree with them
Many people beleave that even if it was cut to improve the game, that the game haven't improve enough... and that controversy didn't help :/
then maybe people shouldn't have been big enough babies to turn it into a controversy
Well it is barely an improvement over the 3ds game and 60$ isn't justified for a game with barely any effort put into it
They said they removed pokemon because they were redoing the models(which is false) and so pokemon can have better animation and so they can appear more lively which also is not the case, and the graphics in some areas are horrible
@@shailali7665 They did put some effort on it. Just not on what YOU wanted.
@@monophonicinverse6185 Effort?
*Reused 3DS models?*
*Outdated NPC animations?*
*An empty open world?*
*Flat land textures and palletes?*
*Features that can't be toggled off?*
This game is absolutely outclassed by its predecessors Coliseum, XD, and Battle Revolution a decade ago, and those games weren't even developed by GameFreak. Stop defending a game at full price on a next-gen console debut that has less in-game content than the last-gen. There is no excuse from the biggest video game franchise on the planet.
I just wish they wouldnt have lied about their reasons. And the biggest part of me is in doubt that they will actually innovate the game experience in the future. im worried they will just keep going as 10 years ago, just this time around with less pokemon to at least see in the game *shrug*
They never lied. You extrapolated the meaning of a vague statement and are laying the blame at their feet for not meeting expectations that you made up yourself.
This was the best opportunity to create the next step of Pokemon innovation and they took the easy way out and just ported sun and moon to the switch.
@@Waterseeker_ So why does the game still look trash?
@@Waterseeker_ ported models, old animations. "Make pokemon more expressive". clown.
@@FlutterSwag i really hope that they will use this for the future to really take the game to the next level, i just dont want it to be in vain!
The removal of the National Dex is what made me quit Pokémon. I wanted to try and fight against corporate greed. The way I see it, Game Freak wanted to deliver less and have you pay for more.
The sad thing is, all long-term games I've played have slowly died the same way. After Pokémon I moved onto Destiny 2. That game is slowly dying in the same way, less delivery, but more money. History continues to repeat itself, and there's nothing I can do to stop it. It's demoralizing and depressing for me.
I've been through this cycle and have hated the communities of Pokémon and Destiny 2 for being so divided and unable to unite for a common cause that I've just grown bitter. When I first saw the title of this video, I wanted to lash out in a comment, I haven't watched it, but I just know that's something I wouldn't do.
My love for Pokémon fell because of corporate greed and a failure to unite, and my love for Destiny 2 died because of corporate greed and a united apathy towards the game that I doubt will go away.
When games get their final update, they die. When the community gives up on corporate greed, they die. When game companies split their community with corporate greed, part of that community dies. When that part leaves and nothing changes, it's a part of the community that won't come back. This is GameFreak's failure.
Hopefully, Bungie can realize this and change their ways.
Sorry for the weird rant. I've had a bad couple of days, and I just need to get a lot of stuff off of my chest. Maybe the fact that I'm going off to college has something to do with it, too.
So I have collected many legendaries and shinies, as well as most of the pokemon...
and now they are bound to a console that isn't really being used anymore
yeah :D
Someday u can get them all to Pokemon G0 :D
It's the life of capitalism. Forced obsolescence in tech (pokémon no different) is a common occurrence.
so? you messed up doing that. not gamefreak
I don't think I will move over to the switch any time soon, so at least I can still use them in games from 2010.
@@enzoforgets9456 Explain to me, "how" one messes up when none of us had seen this coming years ago?
3:08 I actually caught all 807 in Ultra Sun. HOWEVER, while I don’t need the actual Dex, I wanted the ability to transfer all of them to Sword as a postgame option/feature. I still got Sword and I’m enjoying it.
You've got to understand that you're just one person. One out of the millions upon millions out people out there around the world who play Pokémom casually and don't have the time to do something like that.
Not to mention that, while you may have gotten them all in Ultra Sun, that's only ONE of the games.
You'd have to catch them all, again and again, in every single game. And there's no reason for anyone to torture themselves like that.
"Nobody catches all of them"
Completionist *exist*
But do you use them?
@@enzoforgets9456 Does it matter? The entire point of pokemon is to collect pokemon.
@@okagron not entirely as there are competitive players and so much more
@@okagron
Yes it does...
Battles also exist v:
Lot of ppl play to battle
Even completionists don't catch Pokemon that it is technologically impossible for them to catch. Even if you collected every game and all the consoles you needed to play them, you'd be missing out on all sorts of timed or event-exclusive Pokemon. They're great for promoting events and stuff, but make true completionism impossible for someone who didn't start completioning at the dawn of the franchise and keep up for a quarter-century.
The problem is every Pokemon is someone's favorite so because not all the pokemon are there someone is not going to be happy. Like I was blessed that all of my favorites made it but my friend only had one of his favorite 6 make it so I just think it's a little unfair especially when they clearly play favorites when it comes to generations
late reply to this but thats the point.
how well can you go through a region without using one if not none of your favorite pokemons that is not available to use?
this idea is to give newer pokemon a chance to shine, and for all we know your friend ends up liking some of the new pokemons.
@@Flamesaph Yeah what's the point of even making new Pokemon if people wanna transfer their old pokemon to use them again for like the 4th time.
Well, my favorite pokemon is Wormadam, but I never wanted to riot over Wormadam only being available in BDSP.
@@Flamesaphyou’re not going to be using your old pokemon when you’re first playing your game unless it’s already native to the region but you will once the nat dex is acquired
I agree and disagree. Yes, everything that you said is cool. If they removed a ton of pokemon, but truly innovated on the battle system or types or anything. Or even revamped models or animations, but currently, the only feature to affect battle that is ''new'' is basically a temporary Mega evolution with Dynamaxing, which is a pretty lazy new feature, NGL.
But yeah, I think the biggest issue is how long it took to make this change. IMHO they should've changed this in Gen 3 when it was literally impossible to get older pokemon without doing weird dark magic with consoles from 2 generations apart. It would've set our expectations in regards to the dex & probably would've freed GameFreaks's schedule to improve the games more over time instead of the constant copy paste we got since then.
So, right now they cut the dex, which was a good idea in theory, and they didn't replace it with anything substantial.
they tried to in gen 3, had the same backlash and they had to backpedal
@@wewlad2917 Oh, they did? Where was this stated? Or is just going off of the fact that there was no other new Pokemon outside of the Hoenn Dex in Ruby/Sapphire until the Gen 1 Remakes, Emerald, and some Colosseum/XD events or whatever?
@@superlombax1561 there is a video from tama hero that explains it
This is a really well done video and I can absolutely see why people are in this camp. For all the complaints about Black and White before the post game, I think the national dex being all new pokemon was a neat idea. It makes a region feel new and exciting. But I can't get behind the idea of not being able to bring that special partner along with you. Imagine a series of the anime where Ash just can't take Pikachu with him. It would be heartbreaking.
Maybe no one's gonna catch every single pokemon, but every pokemon is loved by someone.
Well the games are made for everyone, not little specific someone's. It's really not going to affect much of anything that little Timmy from Wisconsin can't use Venonat in a particular game, especially when he'll be able to use it in the next one.
It’s a good thing what black and white did with it’s roaster pre completion since it’s entirely new and there’s no issue since you can just transfer the mons you want to use
The fact that they would have to drop the NatDex at some point to me was always a given.
And the best thing to come out of it in my mind is Galarian Wheezing, he would have been broken had Slaking been in the game.
On that note, they did this in the worst possible way. Everything about it was done so poorly, that the extent of the backlash was a given (harassment and death threats are never a given and should never be tolerated), this many people being upset is, in my opinion, the cause of the way they handled the issue.
Not to play devil's advocate, but death threats and harassment on the Internet, while deplorable, should be considered a given if you speak out publicly as a public entity to an innumerable amount of people who buy your product. You don't know the temperament of every single one of your customers, and there's going to be some bad eggs among us.
Hope for the best, expect the worst.
SilverDragon1991 that’s fair but I think that while death threats and harassment might be a given they should never be tolerated or given the “right” to be taken legitimately. But I can see why some people would go to this extent. Doesn’t make it right, but I can see why. Always expecting the worst is a paranoid mental drain that does little for the person expecting it other than to make them stressed and even less productive btw, I grew up with it and have a lot of stress related disorders with the mind and body because of it. I can agree though that the communication was also not there.
I think this has been on purpose, since dataminers have mentioned that some of the missing Pokemon do have placeholders. Maybe they’ll be adding the full dex as a slow process because Sword and Shield was rushed out, then they’ll claim they listened. Or perhaps this is all planning of the “third” version of this generation that’s going to be released.
Michael Shumard
That’s why I mentioned the “third” game, the Yellow of this generation. Chances are they’ll be adding the full dex then if not sooner.
@@Jaewing I know what you mean. To clarify my standpoint a little more when I say 'hope for the best, expect the worst,' I don't mean constantly being paranoid or apprehensive of backlash that crosses the line ala harassment and death threats.
What I mean by that is you kinda have to be mature enough to know that not every single person within a crowd is of a reasonable mentality, even from folks that undyingly support your product no matter how you screw up. Death threats and harassment on the Internet as a public entity, while unacceptable, is something that unfortunately can come with the territory, even if it's on the fringes of it. And it's better to know that and be mentally ready for it when it does happen, but not constantly exist like you're walking on egg shells trying to please everyone.
I agree with a lot of your points, and your overall conclusion, but your point claiming that the national Dex stunts their growth doesn't track. Unless I'm mistaken, you're saying that because the games have to be compatible with the previous formats in order to integrate the national dex. This is a very bad point. First of all, there are ways to allow transfering of older Pokemon in order to be compatible with a dramatically different format. Just a recent small example being that you can transfer a Squirtle that knows bubble into SwSh, but because bubble isn't in the game, it doesn't work, or you can transfer a pokemon from RGBY to Sun and Moon, but because stats work differently, they get completely reset. The best example is the fact that you can transfer Pokemon over from Pokemon GO! which is a completely different system. But the biggest flaw with your argument is that as long as games allow you to transfer older Pokemon, this would still be a problem, so it's not a problem with the national dex, but a problem with transferring, if it's even a problem at all.
TB Skyen: "It was literally impossible to keep the National Pokedex for much longer than they did, and it was also making it practically impossible for the games to improve."
The comments: "I think Sword & Shield is even worse, not improved, so your argument is invalid."
Even if we accept that Sword & Shield were the worst Pokemon games ever, that would still not invalidate any of Skyen's arguments. Just because removing the National 'dex makes improvement in certain areas _possible_ doesn't mean that those improvements will be made _immediately._ Skyen said as much in the friggin' video!
My issue with the Dex cut was exactly your second point. I like to carry all my Pokemon forward from past games as they're all MY Pokemon that I went through their game of origin with, they're all trained to be competitive battlers and now half of them can't even come to Sword and Shield when we get Pokemon Home.
I personally just feel like its done wrong and at the wrong time. The first time pokemon is on a home console (and more expensive) I don't enjoy these kind of removed features.
National Dex shouldn't mean that all the Pokemon are on the map at the same time
It should mean that the Pokemon not in the region should still be transferable from previous generations.... also transferring mons shouldn't cost money at least
i always caught all of my pokemon in the games, transferring them from new game to new game. it helped bring back my nostalgia, being with the pokemon that shaped my childhood and ultimately who i am, with me throughout the day. as a kid whenever my parents fought i would play pokemon. when i went to school, i would bring my pokewalker. but now, i can't do that. and i just feel empty. im constantly trying to reclaim my childhood, and the fact that i can't bring such a large part of it back into my life makes me so sad.
I just wish all the starters were available in every game
ROM hacks?
all starters, all fossils, and all pollution based Poison type Pokémon needs to be in every game
Hey TB, pokemon is one of my great passions in life, I grew up playing the games(I was born in 1997), so I'm sorry if I go on too long about this, but I want to give you my opinion on the whole problem with sword and shield.
- I am upset with the national dex changes but I wasn't part of the outrage, to be honest, even though I was sad, I already knew most of the points you made in the video and could see how removing the Ndex could be benefitial, I was ready to receive change with an open mind under the assumption that it would come with better models, graphics, animations, scenery and pokemon. This was going to be the most stunning and beautiful pokemon game ever, or at least it was what I thought, but the models were all reused, the animations were lazy and simple, the game is not that pretty and at least for me, most of the new pokemon seemed forgetable (not all of them though, I love my boy dragapult and I would die for it)
- The development team is famous for ignoring the fans. Most fans loved the mega evolutions and if you play the game regularly, you would know how good they were for the game. So many pokemon that were trash suddenly became competitively viable, introducing more variety in the metagame and allowing us to use some pokemons that we loved but couldn't use because they were not good enough. The removal of one of the great adittions to the game made fans kinda sad because it made us see that it doesn't matter if game freak does something wrong or right, because it will just be gone in a couple games.
- Game freak has a really bad team of programmers, at least for the market standards, and I'm not saying this as harassment or plain hate, I'm criticizing the fact that they avoid hiring new capable people and keep up with a team that just is not making the game as good as it could be. There are a lot of complaints online about the last pokemon games(not just sword and shield) being badly optimized, dropping frames, bugging animations, and etc etc etc. Part of the reason of the removal of Ndex was to get more room inside the game archives, but the way they program already wastes A LOT of resources (I've seen a few threads pointing the ridiculous in some of it, like the fact that gigantamax pokemon have 3 different models, each of them with a different amount of clouds). There are a lot of talented and capable people out there that could do better, I even believe that if they cut the waste, it could be possible to have the Ndex in the game, the problem is how inneficient they are (this is not an argument saying that they should put the Ndex, I'm saying that it was not the root of the problem and removing it is just a temporary solution)
- The removal of pokemon can have a good effect on competitive. It was a chance to make pokemon that were not that strong, shine in an ambient with less overall power, the problem is that they missed that chance. They kept in the game some pokemon that were problems, like aegislash and ferrothorn, and didn't include pokemon that never had their time to shine, like the gen 2 starters. And these are just a few examples, because there were a lot of mistakes in their, as I may say, immigration program. (I'm looking at you snorlax and mimikyu, I may love you two, but you are too powerful together)
As I can remember right now, these are the top problems, and I'm just saying some of the problems with sword and shield specifically, and not with the franchise as a whole(part of being a good fan is being able to criticize). I am really sad with this game, and I really hope that game freak adress these topics on the next game. I'm fine with the removal of the Ndex as long as they deliver what they promised, goddammit. If anyone made it here, Thank you for reading through my rant and feel free to say if you agree or disagree, or maybe even add more topics to the list of problems that I made (I for example avoided personal problems, like the fact that I hate the privileged treatment that charizard is getting, or that I think that the game should have a hard mode, I tried to stick to more broad and less subjective problems)
I agree with you, I also didn't have any problem with the Ndex but nevertheless, I'm actually passing on this gen. Each gen I've gotten both versions (even got ultra moon which i hated cuz it was more or less the same game) and I was able to make cohesive teams with all new pokemon, yet this new gen is so bland, too many pokemon feel unfinished and in need of a third final evo. Also dynamax is so boring, who thought making your pokemon big was visually stunning to make it into a new mechanic, and gigantamax... they should've just kept making megas, everyone loved megas, I don't know why they try to leave these mechanics to specific generations. Overall I'm disappointed and trust me, I was hyped when the first trailer came in, but this game has literally nothing that calls my attention (more of a personal opinion here). Going back to the Ndex, they lied and they were lazy, and yet they got people to buy their game, so they probably won't ever listen to the fanbase :(
P.s dragapult is the best indeed
Said what I said but better
All of this, yes! Including the Charizard and Hard Mode issues.
I really love Pokémon but ever since Gen 5 it just feels like they haven't been trying or paying attention to fans, it was almost like megas were just a thing they felt like doing once and didn't want to continue doing despite how loved they were. I've gotten every Gen of Pokémon so far, not all the remakes (have skipped Gen 1 and 3 remakes) but this is the first new Gen I'm skipping, it's honestly just so sad what they are doing, they said they were cutting the dex for better animations and yet the legendaries turn by walking in place, I wouldn't even be mad that they are using the same models if they hadn't been lying with it
This this and this !!!
Man I just want to bring my garchomp back, I have had him since pearl and I miss him already :c
Except every positive aspect wasn't taken advantage of. Sw/Sh are basically just the same games as the 3ds just without some pokemon.
My issues with it was their reasoning behind not including them. They were making better models with more unique animations for each mon they chose to keep, but as far as I (and others) can tell, they just recycled what they already had and added nothing new to the models/animations. If they had just come out and said it like you did, "It's just not feasible anymore. Its too much work and we put ourselves in a corner and cant keep it up." I *think* most others would have understood, *especially* if they followed through with said model/animation updates. My second issue was that the Pokebank became useless in this iteration. I know they're making "Pokemon Home" as a substitute, but this seems like a feature that should have been available at launch. I "collect" Mews (my favorite Pokemon), and ever since transfers was a thing, I always liked to start each journey with one on my team as soon as possible. Now they're all stuck in an outdated storage system.
The other problem is that right before they gave the news about the dex they revealed pokemon home which is the system to move over pokemon and it costs money to keep access to all the pokemon you collected.
I'm sorry but to me these points fall short. So here's my counterpoints/views:
1#: It's not about small minority wanting to catch all of the pokemon, but rather fans accumulated over 23 years wanting to have the pokemon they've bounded over time besides them. Most people who played pokemon game at somepoint espacially bonded with their first starter pokemon and yet there's only Charizard line in this game(It feels awful to not have my Sceptile for the first time since 2002), some people can't even have any of their top 6 in these games, 11 out of 15 most popular pokemon according to survey made by pokemon company is not in the games(the 4 who made it are: Pikachu, Charizard, Eevee and Sylveon). IMO this goes against what pokemon have been all these years, trading so you can get your favorites been such an integral part of the games all along.
2#: These games are the first main series games on a home console system, they are 20$ more expensive, cut pokemon and moves, most of the textures/animations/models are reused from 3ds, bunch of new stuff looks like they've been made 15 years ago, game features constant freezing and fps spikes and Pokemon is the number one most profitable entertainment franchise in the world; there will be sometime when resources wont be enough/profitable to keep the NatDex but it's nowhere near that yet, especially when the games show such lack of effort put into them on stronger system while being more expensive. Only reason for why this is happening is GF wants to keep a small studio and churn out games bi-annually, games could use bigger staff and/or more time inbetween the games.
3# I couldn't follow you with this. I don't understand how NatDex kills inovation, amount of pokemon have nothing to do with the gameplay that's been for 23 years. Those are two seperate thing and until we see a new gameplay we can't estimate how much change needs top happen-if any at all- to the dex. And GF doesn't seem to want to change the gameplay since most people found this gen to be easiest with the most handholding yet. Also saying it's a kid's game is downplaying pokemon's audience, franchise is 23 years old and has fans who matured alongside it, it has rather older playerbase than most children's games yet they're easier then most games with more child player. Children are not as dumb as GF thinks them to be.
4# Almost every pokemon game required you to defeat the champion and sometimes catch a quota of pokemon to gain access to NatDex, it ussually doesn't mess with storyline. And gameplay vs story is a problem with many game genres such as rpgs, fighting games and action adventures, gameplay over story is something required to keep games fun(maybe except narrative focused games.)
Quality of pokemon games has been in decline for a while now and Sw/Sh was the last straw for people. And if TPC or GF wont treat the franchise as it deserves, this number will only grow...
Said perfectly! I won't shell out 60$ for a game that has a fraction of the content that it's 3DS counterparts have for $40
I completely agree.
Rip
@@megaman37456 b r u h i dont even want to read this essay
@@omegalilbchass8270 fine i will sum it up: big studio can do better, and just putting the option to download some sprites doesn't ruin the storyline, and more staff gamefreak ffs
My favorite Pokemon is Absol, Absol was not in Sword/Shield until the DLC came out, you couldn't even transfer it, and it STILL isn't in Scarlet/Violet to my knowledge, I am by no means the only person that has experienced this with their favorite Pokemon, that's why I want the National Dex back
Returning pokemon is a better argument
Me: ”THOSE BASTARDS REMOVED THE NATIONAL DEX!”
Also me: *Stop playing Pokemon games after I beat the Elite Four and never ever tried to complete a national dex in any Pokemon game.*
This comment needs more likes
Amazing Spiderman Fan 2002 Basically it’s like trying to catch every last single Pokémon that exist at the point of time a pokemon game was created for example the first Pokemon game Pokemon red had only 151 at the time so the national dex would only have 151 now there’s currently like a +1000 Pokemon so the National Dex requires that you capture all +1000 Pokemon so that means Game Freak would have to animate and model all +1000 Pokemon so its kinda understandable why they cut some of the Pokemon.
Heya! Nice Video! I don't know if this is fairly new or not with your videos, but I *really* like the transitions you made in this one. With the words coming in, the backgrounds and animations in general and such. It makes the whole content feel more polished and professional! Keep up the good work! :)
I honestly think the national dex "cut" would have worked better if
1. Game Freak just said exclusively that the dex cut was happening, without the promises of them working on other features.
2. The Pokemon chosen for the Galar actually fit the region. For example why isn't Lilipup's line, the Pokemon based on the Yorkshire Terrier in the region based on England, but why is Jangmo-o's line in the game, it's a creature based on a Hawaiian myth of the Mo'o, so why is it in England but the Yorkshire Terrier isn't. (It's especially weird because Game Freak claimed, that the pokemon we're specifically chosen to fit the region, but it's obvious they aren't)
It's little things like that, that for me at least, show it was a lazy decision that wasn't done of the reason's Game Freak even said. I personally didn't care certain mons got cut, I always use new ones, but the reasoning for the chosen ones are the confusing part, and at this point, we all know they had the models for them. It was lazy.
TL;DR: Good video but I strongly disagree with some of your points, some points actually are pretty, well, bad to some extent; mostly because those points are actually why Pokemon was successful on the first place.
Wall of text:
I watched your video and I do agree with some of your points and I believe that the nutsacks attacking devs is even worse than the idiots that antagonize the part of the community that wants a discussion and a way to try to talk about the problems.
But nevertheless, I strongly disagree with your opinion on the National Dex and how Pokemon is better off without it. The National Dex is not a waste of resources because that really is part of the appeal of Pokemon, how you can come to the franchise on any game and how you can take those Pokemon that you captured on every adventure afterwards.
On your point of how small is the part of the playerbase that actually tries to "catch em all", that's because in most Pokemon Games it's actually impossible to catch them all on the region you currently are and that's part of the challenge! I know a big chunk of the casual Pokemon players or returning Pokemon players actually try to complete the Pokedex now because of the online trading system.
Before Gen 5 it was actually quite a gruelling task but now you can trade for new Pokemon to anyone conected to internet!
I actually think how awful it must be to try to balance out like 800+ Pokemon but with all that being said, that's Game Freak's work and they are NOT alone with the balance thanks to the community and SMOGON.
But here's also another HUGE problem that's not new, Game Freak PR and Higher Ups still think they're on the same industry from 20 years ago, that they don't have to hire new staff and that they don't have to engage with the community. How do you think things would have turned out if Game Freak actually responded to the players?
It's a good video for the casual Pokemon Players but for any other player, this video kind of hurts.
Your points on why the National Dex is bad are, for the most part, part of the success and appeal of Pokemon as a franchise and some points are just Game Freak's huge mistakes that they could've fixed in other ways.
Either way, good video man!
Re: National Dex being appealing: That's not really the point. Of COURSE there's an appeal, that's why people are upset about it. The point was that the development costs are not consumerate with the appeal. It's not binary, it's just heavily weighted against maintenance. For example, how many people are going to use Buneary? Dusclops? Fearow? A few, certainly, and the promise that you're going to get them can be appealing, but in practice, there just aren't that many people who are going to get them.
This is ESPECIALLY strong in the case being discussed (starting with a pokemon in another game). Vanishingly few people are going to start new adventures with really unpopular Pokemon, so if this is the case they want to entertain that notion as their focus, why would they bring over all Pokemon in the first place? Yeah, I'm suuuuure there will be tons of people starting with Plusle to bring into their next game, suuuuuure.
Re: Online trading and collecting pokemon; there's no reason to offload those systems onto the Pokemon game itself. It's much easier to argue that the Pokemon games themselves are vehicles for the region and regional explorations themselves. Pokemon is actually not a good vehicle for collection or trading in that sense; the technical requirements alone cause huge restrictions on what the games can and cannot do. A large part of what Game Freak screwed up on are that they haven't given a good replacement for the ability to collect Pokemon outside of the mainline games, but that does not mean that the mainline games should be focused on this collection aspect of the game in the first place because it's VERY bad at it.
Re: Smogon/playerbase balancing. No. Like, Smogon's balance sets are balanced and all, but they run into the same problems that banning the National Dex does in the first place; Smogon is very much designed under the restriction of "Every Pokemon, including Event Pokemon are allowed somewhere, but moved around based on a tier list designed to ensure competitive play, at the behest of a council that most people have no contribution to, while at the same time banning moves for reasons that most players will not understand." While that does improve competitive play, that is basically synonymous with National Dex loss, except in a different context of competitive rather than single-player. To be frank, Smogon's movesets are generally unrealistic already for most people to generate in actuality, what with Z-Celebrate or egg moves inherited from one specific generation only, etc.
In fact, Smogon demonstrates an important point; Showdown works mostly because it cheats. It doesn't use complicated animations, lets you divorce a lot of the game from its development, and strips away all of the game except the battling itself. It's basically a hybrid between a calculator and a giant switch statement with a GUI slapped on. You can't put those same restrictions into a mainline game unless you're specifically targeting that sort of angle, such as Pokemon stadium.
Really, pokemon is not a balanceable game without heavy restrictions. Without a tiering system to guide a single player experience, the only other realistic balance point is a banlist which, surprise, a lack of National Dex acts as.
@@windscar18 Great answer!
I do agree and understand most of what you're saying but:
1.Re: On the appeal of "Catching em all" I never said we use all of them all of the time BUT we do use some unpopular Pokemon in some cases, of course it's really situational and probably 1 out of 15 players do it. But that's not the problem here, the problem is that Game Freak is not only cutting off unpopular Pokemon, they are cutting off every kind of Pokemon, some of the more Popular Pokemon are the Starters, legendaries and pseudolegendaries and most of them are cut-off from the game.
And to add insult to injury, no, they do NOT lack the time or resources to do the game and to put every Pokemon back into the game.
It's one of the most profitable companies in Japan and videogames in the WORLD, they literally make billions every year in Japan without the need of releasing new games thanks to the T.V Series and the Pokemon Company as a whole and Game Freak by itself does not do the 3D Models for the game!!! They're done by another sister company.
And for the other things, Game Freak does not lack resources, they lack personnel because they DON'T WANT to hire, as I said, they have the same mentality of the Game Industry from 20 years ago!
2.Re: I strongly disagree with the trading system being "bad for the game", trading was in the game since gen 1 and after gen 5 it was only made easier for players to interact with other players to get the new Pokemon they wanted and sure, you could say that the systems themselves are badly designed or get in the way of the game itself but, as you said, it's Game Freak's fault that those systems get in the way of even story telling and world building.
3.Re:I never said SMOGON did the balancing, I used SMOGON and the Community as examples of what players do and want! Game Freak could take the feedback and work towards fixing and balancing with that info but, well, never does for as long as, probably, 5 gens ago.
Either way, thank you for taking your time to read my wall of text and for engaging in a discussion! If only all of the community was like you...
"too bad because that's your job" isn't really an argument in favor of people being overworked
@@QuikVidGuy That's the problem here, they are NOT working hard enough, the 3D models are the same from previous games and animations and new models are being done by a sister company.
And even if they were it is because of Game Freak's negligence, it is not the players or the community's fault, Game Freak just won't listen!
I see you are trying to cull your sub count today
I have too many of them. I must reduce their numbers before they grow out of control and out-compete the native species.
@@TBSkyen Why not just gather the Infinity Stones? Oh wait, we don't have the Gauntlet, so you wouldn't be able to handle it's power. How foolish of me.
Esteban Maysonet Hardly his fault Nintendo got it first, haha.
not sure why this got recommended to me 2 years later, but this aged really well.
A few years after this video and we're now approaching the release of Scarlet and Violet, the first Pokemon generation where the lack of a national dex could be accounted for at the beginning of development. Considering the game IS the open world advancement you joked about (taking design tips from Zelda BOTW in spreading its main content around the whole map) I think it's safe to say you deserve props to having the foresight to see that the removal of the national dex WOULD pay off - even if it took a year or three
Ngl, the point about "No one catches all the Pokemon" hits close for me
I have played almost every main series title and haven't used Rattata even 1 time in any of them
Personally I'll want a pokemon revolution / stadium type game with all pokemon in it n mechanics (mega dynamax tera whatever etc) like i think getting a game like this every 10 or so years should help people cope with their favorite or whatever not being in the main line game and get to used thier favorites with new mechanics etc etc
i agree! Although this probably wouldn’t happen, atleast not anytime soon.
(disclaimer: havent watched full vid yet) I understand your point completely, except i feel like all the Pokémon should still be transferable from game to game (i cant bring my first pokemon into swsh), and have some lil non-required bonus for transfering all of them.
I don't have a problem with the national dex being removed if Pokemon home has a battle system for online
Need more edited videos like this. Really darn smooth to look at and easy to listen to.
They kept the code of all Pokemon in game, just most of it goes unused since they don't implement the National Dex.
With Legends Arceus and what we are seeing with Scarlet and Violet, your points aged VERY well and are on point on why the National Dex is a mistake.
I think gamefreak should make an open world Pokémon game that has the national dex, multiplayer, and nothing else. No story, no gyms, just a place for people to put their Pokémon partners if they don’t get into the next game’s dex. Kinda like Pokémon bank, but you can actually do stuff with our Pokémon (like Pokémon aimee, camping, etc).
I completely agree with this video. As for me personally, the worse thing about the National Dex was never feeling like I had to change my strategy or team. I would always pick the same pokemon in every game because they were my favorites. That's why the original Pokemon Black and White are my favorite Pokemon games because everything was new and I couldn't rely on my usual team choice. It made me experience Pokemon from the beginning and I am getting a bit of that feeling again from Sword and Shield.
I feel like I always am the only one that catches literally every pokemon since Gen 6 atleast... I have a full living dex in my pokebank and most of them are shiny even, and I also had like 5 boxes of competitive bred and trained pokemon I used regulary.
I dont mind that the dex is gone, sure some of my favorites got left behind, but a lot of some of them also got in sword and shield so its a real 50/50 for me
I have a history with most of my pokemon, I love my competitive pokemon, and I kept most of the pokemon I used in the story
Im fine with the dex limit because the meta can be more exciting now without everyone spamming landorus and heatran.
But for me, the national dex was never a mistake and I would love to have it, atleast all pokemon implemented without having them in the dex like SuMo.
I love all the pokemon tbh... even if its something like basculin, I am happy it exists in the grand scheme atleast
Nope. You're literally no one. The National Dex was always a mistake lalalalala
@@xaldynnemo47 kek
With hindsight from BDSP and Legends: Arceus, I do think that the removal of the national dex could have been done more elegantly than it was.
I would have had Sword and Shield be the last pokemon game with national dex, even if the full dex is only implemented after DLC, if the full national dex isn't in the base game then I would indicate to fans that the full dex will be fully implemented at a later date. The reasoning for this is to have a hub for all Pokemon being transferred from Bank so that some of them aren't stuck in Home.
After this the BDSP and Legends: Arceus games would ease people into the idea of no more national dex, maybe even have interviews stating that the limited dex helped make Legends: Arceus a better game, and then no longer support the national dex from Scarlet and Violet onwards.
And then fans are able to get the full dex in those games and complain about gamefreak lying, in such a case the only excuse is time
@@mariotheundying yeah, the only way they could end up not getting complaints that they lied is if they added the full National dex in SwSh from launch and not say anything about any dex cut until around Legend Arceus promotion where they will say that SwSh will be the last games with National dex support, and that cutting the dex will allow for more games like Legends Arceus. Basically saying “National dex support made SwSh worse, cut dex made Legends Arceus better”.
But this is all in hindsight and would require the company to make a statement that SwSh isn’t as good as it could have been, something I am sure no game company would want to admit.
Sun and Moon actually already have the perfect balance, the national dex was not already in the game, yet you can still move pokemon from previous works into it, if you ask me, limiting that to postgame would have fixed the problem with the story for that particular one
One thing you forget to mention is that "gotta catch em all" was the marketing slogan for the english release only, and it was dropped by the 4th gen games. You were never supposed to catch them all, but if you do... cool, here is a lame certificate.
Couldn’t agree more. As sad as it is to have a game without your favorite Pokémon, I like the idea of each generation being a self-contained “season”, with only Pokemon from that season being available. Then it makes it exciting to see old favorites return after an absence, with hopefully a new flavor and interpretation for the new game. That’s why regional variants are so fun, imo. It breathes new life into the old, making it feel new.
Games workers: *exist in the most profitable media organisations in human history but receive practically none of the profit from their labor*
People on Twitter: I'm about to ruin this man's mental health
@@Drake00000010 I'm not talking about manager skulls
What I'm getting from this is that removal of the nation dex allows developers to spend less time developing animations and more time on other aspects of the game. That would be nice, if gamefreak could take the incentive to do anything. Every generation they give us the same old game, with progressively more corners cut every generation. People aren't angry that they aren't allowing us to catch all the pokemon; They are angry that they are cutting yet another corner from the game to save more time that they won't even use for improving anything. This game could've been so much better, but its not. You're right about it not being just another pokemon game with corners cut; It's a pokemon game with even more corners cut and a 50% price increase.
I hear what you're saying, and I agree with your points. Cutting the national dex does allow gamefreak to invest more time into giving us experiences that are fresher and more inovative than ever.
I can't speak for others, but I would not have been so upset if we'd, at least, been able to see the other side of that trade off.
But what did we get instead?
Pokemon not scaled correctly
Textures that are straight up worse than GC era games.
Lazy animations. In some cases no animations
Pokemon that look dead inside
Battles that can't even use the correct backgrounds
Very lacking post game
Basic QoL features like a flipping **cutscene skip button** sorely lacking. This hurts the game's replayability.
A game that is still too easy with no built in hard mode to keep the long term vets engaged. (Preferably a hard mode that is available from the very start)
And countless more issues. All of this points to a game that feels like it was rushed out to line up with the holiday season.
Also GameFreak lied.
The national dex is a logistical nightmare, but the biggest problem I had with it, wasn't that it happened. I knew it was going to happen eventually. My problem was that it was a lie. they didn't update the models for the pokemon, then they didn't update the animations for the pokemon. those were the reasons they gave. Balancing was a logistical nightmare, I know that. And given that pokemon Sun and Moon didn't even give new dex entries or feature the national dex in name, it was definitely planned for gen 7 or at least the seeds were sown by gen 7.
A rebuttal: The competitive meta game.
While I wasn't initially that upset with the lack of a National Dex, I do think that it sucks that certain Pokemon with incredibly unique strategies are just unavailable for teambuilding. Gliscor and Breloom are the only Pokemon that have access to Toxic Heal, which makes them fit brilliantly with some of the newer Pokemon like Salazzle and Toxapex who also focus around spreading Toxic. With the niche essentially trapped in 2 separate games, it makes fun theme teams like this not nearly as fun because you're not just limited by your own self-set parameters, but also by the additional parameters of the games itself
My brothers and I have been playing these games all our lives. I'm 26, and my brothers are 22, 15 and 8. Even my youngest brother was heartbroken by this because he can't being his favorite, Sceptile, into the new games. The other two couldn't bring their favorites, Sharpedo and Luxray. And for me, it was Alakazam. We've been moving these characters forward year after year, and we never grew bitter and said the new generations were shit or anything like that. We just transformed our teams, and we swapped them out constantly, trying even obscure ones. I and my 22yo brother would put in hundreds of hours collecting every single one, and transfer our old ones. We played these games for every drop of content they had to offer, and we were ecstatic about Sword and Shielf. This was going to be my first game since gen 5, but the lies, the higher price, the national dex cuts, the move cuts, the weak excuses, the basic animations, these things don't equate to a bad game in themselves... But when you put it all together, it's damning. I tried the game at a friend's place the other day, and it felt...empty. Good, but empty. Even in the beautiful forest full of bioluminescent mushrooms, and the wild area, the gyms, even in all those places, I couldn't shake the disappointment. I don't think I will. And I'm just not happy with this franchise anymore. I can't derive pleasure from it after this point. So I'm just going to keep playing the old games, because they feel more complete to me. Maybe I'll buy Sword used, but even enjoying it for what it is, I can't forget what came before.
I think you should maybe try Pokémon Reborn and Rejuvenation. If you’re comfortable with higher difficulty and a darker story, they’re awesome games. Also Reborn has all Pokémon up to gen 7 and Rejuvenation is working on adding all through gen 8
@@bluepikmin6363 I ended up getting Sword and was pretty 'whelmed' by it. I love the new Pokemon, but the gameplay and world leave a lot to he desired. I beat it fairly quickly and lost interest in the post game stuff after a few weeks.
I've been playing Radical Red on my Vita. It's a rom hack that has almost every pokemon up to the 8th gen, but it's excruciatingly hard.
I'll check em out though.
Gen 5 was my favourite Gen and when I saw how many unova Pokémon were in sword and shield I was so happy. Death to kanto.
But no Awesome Pokemon like Zoroark, Eelektross and Volcarona and all that....i was hoping the Most for Volcarona to make it Into Sword and Shield and I never got that at all....AND VOLCARONA MY MOST FAVORITE BUG-TYPE POKEMON GOT SCRAPPED FROM SWORD AND SHIELD AND I CAN'T GET OVER IT AT ALL TO THIS DAY!!!!
I'd rather only have the regional dex, be able to catch all those and have great animations for each pokemon
And have better Graphics, the more Pokémon you have, the bigger the Game's File Size. Imagine having over 2000 Pokémon, Mario Odyssey Level Graphics, and No More Room on your SD Card after a Day One Patch ate it all up.
i’m sorry but not every pokemon is Ludicolo, some pokemon coolnes is just in the pose they have, not some cycled 3 seconds animation
ive seen venusaur and boltoise in this game in videos but how in the hell did they get them in the game?
Hacks.
I'm actually surprised it took eight generations for the national Dex to end. I do wish I could bring some stuff forward, but also understand that not everyone loves Kecleon or Smeargle.
no, not everyone,but someone does, again, every pokemon is someone favorite
Oh you got an Editor? How nice, hope this will take some pressure away from you
OOOH FANCY EDITIING. Hope you stay mr editor.
i have a complete loving dex that i’ve been building for 20 years and only 30 mons left in galar...i want the national dex lol
the battle system is pretty different than it was in gen 1. The addition of abilities, separation of special defense and special attack, the gen 4 physical special split, gen 5 hidden abilities, etc. Most RPGs don’t also have an entire competitive video game that they need to be concerned about so outside spinoffs pokémon can’t change the fundamental turn based game.
I really hope this does lead to more changes. The main reason I've lost interest in Pokémon is because there's so little innovation, most of every Pokémon game feels the same as every other Pokémon game.
As sword and shield shows, there won't be any change, all you get in that game is a butchered 3DS title.
Excluding Sun and Moon, every main series title is the same, just with different Pokémon and a fresh coat of paint. I don't really mind it that badly, but I do wish they would make interesting stories to make up for it. There's a reason why BW is considered the best main series title in the franchise.
@@Klonoahedgehog bruh have you SEEN the game at all?
@@QuikVidGuy Yeah, it's pretty much just Sun and Moon running on an emulator
@@Klonoahedgehog
You're objectively wrong. The game doesn't look good but it does visually improve over sun and moon aside from resolution.
that is some extravagant editing on display there. impressive.
Why did this video take 2 years to show up on my recommended?
Anyway I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought this. The transfer into aspect of the national dex never came to my mind but my friends kept saying, "I should be able to catch all Pokemon except the version exclusives.". To me the first time they introduced region variants and it was a foretelling to me that not all Pokemon would be available EVERYWHERE. That evolution, location, climate would have heavy impact on the species of Pokemon available in certain regions.
Was i sad that it was gone at first, nah. To me it made sense. The challenge was to make teams from whats available, not keep dragging in your team you made in Gen3.
What if every game only had a 150 Regional Dex? And Gen 2 onwards always included 100+ new and 50- old Pokemon? While Regional Forms existed sooner in Gen 2? While Nationals never existed, but Transfers are always optional? And if completing the Dexes rewarded us with Event Items to visit new areas and catch Mythicals(but only after showing our Dexes to the Professors)? How'd the series have been like? How well would the games have been recieved?
I gotta strongly disagree with the part about the Nat Dex stagnating the design of the games. This would be a good point, if Gamefreak didn't already have a history of changing past Pokémon's stats and typings to update them to fit in with the new mechanics.
This would also be a valid point if Sword/Shield were drastically different from past games, but they still utilize the same old mechanics and put Kanto Pokémon in the spotlight. If getting rid of the Nat Dex is supposed to inspire innovation, then why are we still being baby-sitted during the adventure and having Charizard shoved in our faces yet again?
I can understand the other points, but this point about the Nat Dex stiffling innovation makes no sense to me. If old Pokémon are the reason why the series can't change, then there shouldn't be any old Pokémon in future games. It should just be the 100 or so new ones they come up with every gen. Which I know will never happen because Gamefreak will never allow us to play a game without telling us that Kanto is their favorite region.
Gamefreak: We should not waste time and resources putting all of the Pokémon in the new games
Also Gamefreak: We should waste time and resources to make 63 different forms of Alcremie
And a curry dex
Sees title, grabs popcorn, looks down at comments and prepares to be entertained
I'm watching this a week away from the release of Scarlet and Violet, and I feel like most of the Pokemon fandom has caught up to what you said here. Like you said, there is an ever-expanding roster of Pokemon grows every 3-4 years. We're at the 9th generation and we're closing in at about 1,000 Pokemon. Not only is that massively unwieldy for a game on a system with the processing power of an egg timer, but it takes away time, energy and resources that could be spent on quality of life improvements that the franchise has desperately needed for a long time (which to fair PLA had in spades and hopefully they'll be carried over to S&V).
I like this tightly edited and scripted format of video a lot.
Holy shit, the editing here was really nice! Good job Pheonix! Just a good video in general, all of these points are ones that I hadn't heard before and people probably should hear
My problem with that is, either cut the national dex completely or only take the pokemon from the last generation or two. Picking random pokemon out of every generation is just unfair for who's pokemon wasnt chosen.
was the static noise an artistic decision or a try to circumvent a copyright claim? Just curious
In a twist of fait it actually turns out that the next pokemon game is supposed to be open-world and should be adding an almost unheard of number of pokemon
the editing looked super good
Yep, this video pretty much went exactly like I was hoping it to go. My brain was making it out that this was just gonna be a bashfest on the people who wanted the National Dex back, but deep down, I knew it wasn't gonna be that ridiculous. And it wasn't.
Also, you brought up plenty of points I never even thought about like the whole resources thing and how that is actually keeping Pokemon from truly evolving from what we're used to(even if I don't really mind how things are going already). And it'll certainly be interesting to see how, if they do stick with this rather than just end up giving us back the National Dex back for Scarlet/Violet, Pokemon could change. And speaking of which, those games are really shaping up from what I've seen and heard, so you might be on to something if they didn't bring it back for this.
The National Dex was also a way to keep bringing your faithful friends forward and have them along with you. Now that we have a phone app for that, we don't need it that much anymore, we can use them in the game where they become accessible, or keep them in the phone if they skip a gen.