running the heaters upside down lets diesel leak from the glow plug air breather hole into the casing and eventually youll cause it to flame out. only run it in its upright position.
I think I've seen long exhausts where moisture builds up and needs to run out away from the combustion chamber, so you need to inclined or decline the angel of the exhaust to allow moisture run out!
If you put the outside case back on that piece of radiation you will nearly double its output because it needs that chimney affect to move the air great idea though❤️🔥🇺🇸
Excellent idea but the exhaust should be on the bottom to drain the condensate. If you use cast iron you will get even more heat because the cast iron will stay hot for longer
IMO, that's a VERY good idea... I think you're gaining a LOT more heat by doing that..... and even another section if you wanted would be good.... The only thing I myself would wonder about is for that pipe to be hot enough out on the far end to get any condensation OUT of your exhaust/radiator pipe... I think it's great!....
a dam good idea, now, a idea for you, due to it getting hot, you could make a coffee pot stand, to keep your coffee hot, saves putting the kettle on :)
Nice idea, first I have seen without water lines/bucket/pump/elect etc. What about affects on combustion given adding length of exhaust which is an additional restriction, I would assume your air/fuel ratio would go up.
Apologies if someone has already mentioned this, but using a heat exchanger is a “two-way street”, you will be heating the air outside of the exchanger but also cooling the gases inside, this cooling will create a condensate which is quite acidic and will attack the metal work, sloping the exchanger will help the condensate run out but the acidic nature of it will still cause damage. I have long wanted to do this so will be very interested in the longevity of the exchanger.
You're right, and there is a "sweet spot" as far as the maximum length of the radiating pipe before it starts cooling the exhaust to the point of the condensation being a problem... too long a pipe, too cool the exhaust, causing condensation problems... If the exhaust pipe on ANY internal combustion engine is not allowed to get hot enough, that exhaust system will eventually/prematurely rot/corrode from the inside out.... even stainless steel will eventually... Good point.
7metres of 8mm brake pipe coiled around a 500mm length of the exhaust and wrapped in insulation will remove much more heat. A small pump to drive the fluid around the circuit and a through a small radiator with a fan will return the heat to the air in your building, Alternatively you can pump into a water tank for a small hot water supply.
You are wrong! Thermal dynamics say that heating water to heat air is less efficient than just heating the air directly. Twice the thermal barriers to go through.
@@bigoldgrizzly that’s basically the opposite of what he is saying. Law of thermodynamics says that the ambient air temp will ALWAYS be cooler than the AMBIENT water temp.. water can get cooled off quickly (by air) and return to COOL your engine.. but isn’t AS efficient to bring heat to the ambient air. It does work. Just not as effective as using an air heat exchanger like the one in this video. Only problems with the one in the video is that he doesn’t have cool ambient airflow circulating over the fins, and needs to account for the expanding exhaust gasses as it cools (expansion chamber to keep it at 1 atmosphere) and condensation of the gasses into water..soooo his fails too lol
I think that most people installing in a van or caravan are just glad to fit it in. But those who installed it in a garage or work cabin, like I have, DO feel a hot exhaust pipe from the fumes going out. And want to recover that heat. It's 60-100°C... As it cools, H2O water condenses So as it cools, SO2 sulphur, mixes and forms H2SO4 sulphuric acid... This is not easy to weave through in an economical way.
I've been dreaming of doing this exact thing in my Cabin. My questions would be what's the total length of the heat exchange pipe you ended up with. And how did it work out for you? What is your exhaust temperature leaving the building now?
I DO know you can't run TOO long of an exhaust due to condensation build up... so one would have to find the sweet spot for the max length on doing this....
There's a max you can go with it tho, because it ends up making too much condensation for this thing to be able to burn off and that ain't good.... My mother had a Nissan Sentra back in the 80's bought new and the exhaust failed within 1.5 years... and then again about the same amount of time later.... Nissan covered the entire system manifold back twice because the car had less than 30k on it... They figured out that she only ran that car 4-5 times a week, and very rarely more than 3-10 miles at a time... The exhaust never got the chance to get hot enough to get that condensation out of there... So she started letting the car warm up for 5 minutes or so before going anywhere and the problem stopped... Sorry to bore you, but getting the condensation out is critical unless replacing exhaust systems is a thing for ya...
Interesting project, what if you put the small exhaust into a 4 inch steel pipe upright and exhausting outdoor, theory being exhaust gases will slow down in a larger pipe and longer to transfer heat to 4 inch pipe, just an idea..
better off with multiple smaller pipes - far greater surface area to radiate heat and, as you say, more time to do so. Problem with large pipes is there is much reduced cooling effect on the gas running down the centre, only transfers heat well from that gas at or near the pipe wall
@@Mwwwwwwwwe One problem is the acidic by-products of combustion in the condensate would be pretty corrosive to most metals, so the heat exchanger would have to be considered as a consumable item. Copper might be a better bet, but how long it would last ... I guess you would have to try it and see
@@bigoldgrizzly most of the corrosive byproducts would be disolved the carbon dioxide with a few hundred ppm sulphurOUS/ nitr0US acids(weak) could easily mitigate this by having a low lying trap/drain...throw in a lump of chalk from time to time to neutralise the acids
@@Mwwwwwwwwe My limited knowledge of such matters relies largely on my aging memory of lectures over half a century ago. Carbonic, sulphurous and nitrous acids would all exist in the exhaust gas in the vapour phase and I'm pretty sure would have corrosive effects along the length of the heat exchanger. The reaction of carbonic acid on copper produces the familiar Verdigris of copper carbonate, which has very poor heat transfer properties and I would think similar materials would be produced in aluminium ... much like a boiler scaling up and losing efficiency with time. There seems to be much interest in producing specialist castable aluminium/silicon alloys for natural gas domestic and industrial condensing boilers which might give equal efficiency and lifespan compared to the stainless exchangers most commonly used. Diesel exhaust is however a much 'dirtier' product than natural gas exhaust and the corrosion problems greater. For an application such as diesel heaters I would be inclined to accept less than perfect heat transfer using copper coils round a 304 stainless pipe, and just make them longer and preferably with the exhaust split in two or three legs each with their own coil, resulting, hopefully, in a system that will last some years without maintenance. If the S/Steel failed with time, the coils, at least, should be re-usable
Good ole’ cheap Chinese product design. It’s cheap for a reason. I’ve been running some parts that I had laying around. PTFE fuel line with a spark plug wire boot heat sock and then for the exhaust I have some exhaust wrap with a ubolt style exhaust clamp
@@Martin-tb4ooI believe I saw another comment say it’s a Boat Radiator Pipe. Edit. Did some research. Found some cheaper options known as a Hydronic Base Board Heater. Looks like you can buy the fins separately, but from my initial research it might not be any cheaper or cost effective
@@lastchanceshop UPSIDE DOWN WILL POOL FUEL ON THE GLOW PLUG AND WONT LAST LONG. OTHER THING, PUMP CAN'T BE HORIZONTAL. WILL NOT METER PROPERLY. EVERYTING DIESEL HEATER, GO TO John McK 47.
running the heaters upside down lets diesel leak from the glow plug air breather hole into the casing and eventually youll cause it to flame out. only run it in its upright position.
Or on its side, with the glow plug up.
Thanks. I was wondering about that...
I was wondering if there would be negative effects by his doing that... I DO like the exhaust idea tho.
Haha, I've been using these exact radiator pipes for past 18 months, boat radiator pipes, work really well.
I think I've seen long exhausts where moisture builds up and needs to run out away from the combustion chamber, so you need to inclined or decline the angel of the exhaust to allow moisture run out!
If you put the outside case back on that piece of radiation you will nearly double its output because it needs that chimney affect to move the air great idea though❤️🔥🇺🇸
Thanks, that was an idea I had, but still haven't found a salvage baseboard. Maybe worth buying a new one if it works well.
Pretty pink.
Excellent idea but the exhaust should be on the bottom to drain the condensate. If you use cast iron you will get even more heat because the cast iron will stay hot for longer
I have a cast iron radiator in my garage that I'm going to test to see if it works
IMO, that's a VERY good idea... I think you're gaining a LOT more heat by doing that..... and even another section if you wanted would be good.... The only thing I myself would wonder about is for that pipe to be hot enough out on the far end to get any condensation OUT of your exhaust/radiator pipe... I think it's great!....
yeah it will condensate more, and the condansate is acid
a dam good idea, now, a idea for you, due to it getting hot, you could make a coffee pot stand, to keep your coffee hot, saves putting the kettle on :)
Nice idea, first I have seen without water lines/bucket/pump/elect etc. What about affects on combustion given adding length of exhaust which is an additional restriction, I would assume your air/fuel ratio would go up.
Apologies if someone has already mentioned this, but using a heat exchanger is a “two-way street”, you will be heating the air outside of the exchanger but also cooling the gases inside, this cooling will create a condensate which is quite acidic and will attack the metal work, sloping the exchanger will help the condensate run out but the acidic nature of it will still cause damage. I have long wanted to do this so will be very interested in the longevity of the exchanger.
You're right, and there is a "sweet spot" as far as the maximum length of the radiating pipe before it starts cooling the exhaust to the point of the condensation being a problem... too long a pipe, too cool the exhaust, causing condensation problems... If the exhaust pipe on ANY internal combustion engine is not allowed to get hot enough, that exhaust system will eventually/prematurely rot/corrode from the inside out.... even stainless steel will eventually... Good point.
7metres of 8mm brake pipe coiled around a 500mm length of the exhaust and wrapped in insulation will remove much more heat. A small pump to drive the fluid around the circuit and a through a small radiator with a fan will return the heat to the air in your building, Alternatively you can pump into a water tank for a small hot water supply.
You are wrong! Thermal dynamics say that heating water to heat air is less efficient than just heating the air directly. Twice the thermal barriers to go through.
@@Chris-ug5tp ok ...empty out your car radiator then
@@bigoldgrizzly that’s basically the opposite of what he is saying. Law of thermodynamics says that the ambient air temp will ALWAYS be cooler than the AMBIENT water temp.. water can get cooled off quickly (by air) and return to COOL your engine.. but isn’t AS efficient to bring heat to the ambient air. It does work. Just not as effective as using an air heat exchanger like the one in this video. Only problems with the one in the video is that he doesn’t have cool ambient airflow circulating over the fins, and needs to account for the expanding exhaust gasses as it cools (expansion chamber to keep it at 1 atmosphere) and condensation of the gasses into water..soooo his fails too lol
I think that most people installing in a van or caravan are just glad to fit it in. But those who installed it in a garage or work cabin, like I have, DO feel a hot exhaust pipe from the fumes going out. And want to recover that heat.
It's 60-100°C...
As it cools, H2O water condenses
So as it cools, SO2 sulphur, mixes and forms H2SO4 sulphuric acid...
This is not easy to weave through in an economical way.
You are going to get a bunch of moisture and soot build up in the chamber with it upside-down.
How long is the Baseboard Element, is it copper or steel pipe. what do you recommend for sizing? 4-6'?
I've been dreaming of doing this exact thing in my Cabin. My questions would be what's the total length of the heat exchange pipe you ended up with. And how did it work out for you? What is your exhaust temperature leaving the building now?
I DO know you can't run TOO long of an exhaust due to condensation build up... so one would have to find the sweet spot for the max length on doing this....
Excellent! Also. You can buy extra exhaust tubing and simply make a lattice out of it and then exhaust out.
There's a max you can go with it tho, because it ends up making too much condensation for this thing to be able to burn off and that ain't good.... My mother had a Nissan Sentra back in the 80's bought new and the exhaust failed within 1.5 years... and then again about the same amount of time later.... Nissan covered the entire system manifold back twice because the car had less than 30k on it... They figured out that she only ran that car 4-5 times a week, and very rarely more than 3-10 miles at a time... The exhaust never got the chance to get hot enough to get that condensation out of there... So she started letting the car warm up for 5 minutes or so before going anywhere and the problem stopped... Sorry to bore you, but getting the condensation out is critical unless replacing exhaust systems is a thing for ya...
@@1956tojo True for the exhaust diameter version. If you go to a much larger Diameter, you can extend it as far as you like.
Interesting project, what if you put the small exhaust into a 4 inch steel pipe upright and exhausting outdoor, theory being exhaust gases will slow down in a larger pipe and longer to transfer heat to 4 inch pipe, just an idea..
better off with multiple smaller pipes - far greater surface area to radiate heat and, as you say, more time to do so. Problem with large pipes is there is much reduced cooling effect on the gas running down the centre, only transfers heat well from that gas at or near the pipe wall
Maybe aluminum box chanel- stainless is practically an insulator compered to aluminum
@@Mwwwwwwwwe
One problem is the acidic by-products of combustion in the condensate would be pretty corrosive to most metals, so the heat exchanger would have to be considered as a consumable item. Copper might be a better bet, but how long it would last ... I guess you would have to try it and see
@@bigoldgrizzly most of the corrosive byproducts would be disolved the carbon dioxide with a few hundred ppm sulphurOUS/ nitr0US acids(weak) could easily mitigate this by having a low lying trap/drain...throw in a lump of chalk from time to time to neutralise the acids
@@Mwwwwwwwwe
My limited knowledge of such matters relies largely on my aging memory of lectures over half a century ago. Carbonic, sulphurous and nitrous acids would all exist in the exhaust gas in the vapour phase and I'm pretty sure would have corrosive effects along the length of the heat exchanger. The reaction of carbonic acid on copper produces the familiar Verdigris of copper carbonate, which has very poor heat transfer properties and I would think similar materials would be produced in aluminium ... much like a boiler scaling up and losing efficiency with time. There seems to be much interest in producing specialist castable aluminium/silicon alloys for natural gas domestic and industrial condensing boilers which might give equal efficiency and lifespan compared to the stainless exchangers most commonly used. Diesel exhaust is however a much 'dirtier' product than natural gas exhaust and the corrosion problems greater.
For an application such as diesel heaters I would be inclined to accept less than perfect heat transfer using copper coils round a 304 stainless pipe, and just make them longer and preferably with the exhaust split in two or three legs each with their own coil, resulting, hopefully, in a system that will last some years without maintenance. If the S/Steel failed with time, the coils, at least, should be re-usable
Since that’s the exhaust do you add pipe and vent the other end outside
Yes i did
Where can I find the radiator pipe you are using?
This is basic base board for hot water heat you can buy in home Depot
why is the fuel line so close to the exhaust? I've seen that bend and pipe get re hot/
.
@@formerfreak4943 Good place for a soup can.
Good ole’ cheap Chinese product design. It’s cheap for a reason. I’ve been running some parts that I had laying around. PTFE fuel line with a spark plug wire boot heat sock and then for the exhaust I have some exhaust wrap with a ubolt style exhaust clamp
Where did you get that radiator fin stack?
Did you figure out what is called?
@@Martin-tb4ooI believe I saw another comment say it’s a Boat Radiator Pipe.
Edit.
Did some research. Found some cheaper options known as a Hydronic Base Board Heater. Looks like you can buy the fins separately, but from my initial research it might not be any cheaper or cost effective
The exhaust pipe and Air intake pipe is under the heater for a REASON. THEY DIDNT INSTALL ON TOP. GO FIGURE before you run into trouble.
They can be installed every direction except upside down and on the side that the glow plug would be down ans can even be mounted vertical
does it run properly upside down like that? no issues??
I run this temporary I post another video how I complete that set up you can check it out
What radiator did you use?
This radiator you can get in home Depot i get this one from scrap
Sorry to say you can’t mount that thing upside down it’ll plug up on you
I'm still working on it i let you know after testing
@@lastchanceshop UPSIDE DOWN WILL POOL FUEL ON THE GLOW PLUG AND WONT LAST LONG. OTHER THING, PUMP CAN'T BE HORIZONTAL. WILL NOT METER PROPERLY. EVERYTING DIESEL HEATER, GO TO John McK 47.
@@dbpfrontgater438 ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1z93yfbYI8KJjy0Faq6zAiVXaQ/HFSECURITY-OEM-CHERRY-PBT-Backlight-CAPS-LOCK-Mechanical-Keycaps-for-Cherry-G80-3000-3484-3494.jpg_Q90.jpg_.webp