Garage workshop heater based on a Chinese diesel RV heater
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- čas přidán 20. 08. 2024
- The video gives a brief outline of the way I solved the problem of a very cold workshop in the winter months. I didn't want the heater to be inside the workshop (due to noise and smell) so I mounted the heater in a box on the outside. The heater has proved to be very reliable, economical and has transformed the use of the workshop.
The heater was supplied from Ebay and the whole heater kit cost less than £100 (2020 prices). In addition, I bought a cheap mains power supply.
Far more details about the build are in my Instructable:
www.instructab...
What a beautiful professional installation. Shown in a beautiful professional video. 10/10 from me !
Now.... ONE comment
It's running on the 220vac:12v dc transformer. Ok. If there's a power outage and the unit is on. The temperature of the burner will be at 150-250°C.
When the unit is turned off, it goes into an important shut down cycle, which does 2 things. The glow plug is turned on to burn off any residue, and then when all flames are out, the fan speeds up to COOL DOWN the burner from, say 200°C until it gets down to ambient.
If the unit can't cool it self, because the 12v has just gone, then all this "latent heat" will simply radiate out. It will melt the control board just above it. It could do more damage. I learned that from John Mack 47 who made an 18 engineering YT videos all about these heaters
So in my cabin, i decided to use a small 12v battery and a 12v trickle charger. They have the same roles as the battery in your car and the alternator.
So the initial start up and shut down cycle currents are fed effectively by the battery. The recharge and normal running, by the trickle charger.
Most importantly, if there's a power outage, the battery takes right over the running for hours and hours.
So then, when I choose, I can safely close it down.
Hi thank you for your encouraging comments.
Right from the outset, I have acknowledged the concern you rightly raise, and it has generated many comments on this video and the accompanying Instructable:
www.instructables.com/Chinese-Diesel-Heater-Workshop-Install/
I’ll reproduce one example of a previous response I’ve made:
“However. Please be aware that there is a major potential problem with using a mains power supply. If the heater is running and you get a power cut, then the electric pump will stop supplying diesel (this is good!) but the cooling fan will also stop (this is bad). The residual heat left in the combustion chamber is not now being blown into the room and may overheat the unit. I believe that this could cause the heater to melt, essentially destroying itself.
I 'get away' with using the mains power supply based on two assumptions: 1) I have never had a power cut in the years I have been living here. 2) I never have the heater running unattended - I put it on when I am working in the workshop. Hence, the prospect of having a power cut when the heater is functioning seems extremely unlikely to me, and even if there is one, I will be aware and be able to (at the very least) take some action to prevent a disaster (even if the heater might be fatally damaged!).
If you wanted to use one of these heaters in your static caravan, I would power it from a 12V battery (must be capable of supplying at least 12A for 5 or 10 minutes as the unit is powering-down gracefully) and a permanent 'trickle charger'. A small car battery and simple charger would be ideal.”
Many thanks for your interest. Best wishes
Nice job. Finally decent looking diesel heater installation. Most what I have seen before are pipe and wire mess all over the walls.
In an earlier reply I commented that the diesel heater has nominally a 5kW output. We can 'confirm' this by looking at its maximum fuel consumption and the energy that amount of diesel releases.
The diesel heater has an accurate pump which delivers 0.02ml of fuel per pulse and is pulsed at a rate between 1.6Hz and 5.5Hz depending on the user's temperature setting (1Hz is 1 pulse per second). So flat-out it consumes about 5.5 x 0.02 x 60 x 60 = 400ml per hour or 0.4 litres per hour.
According to google, diesel has a combustion energy release of 44MJ/kg and a specific volume of 0.85 kg/l so 1 litre of diesel releases 37MJ of energy when it is burned. (Not sure of the conditions this has been measured at).
0.4 litres per hour is therefore 37x0.4 MJ per hour = 15MJ or 15,000,000/3,600 J/s = 4166 J/s or just over 4kW
Some heat is lost via the exhaust.
So theoretically the heater is probably nearer to 4kW (some advertisers market the heater as 8kW!!).
Can we just stand back and Appreciate the level of math here? Its simple, elegant and gives you a real world result on heat output and cost. One of the best posts on the thread. Thank you!
The 8kW versions likely have a slightly higher pumping speed, but are nowhere near that claimed output. A good, tidy installation, but please read my input much lower down. Some of the issues have since been raised, and addressed, and I commend you on your arguments.
@@oliver90owner David McLuckie has tested several & the only difference he found between the 5 & the 8 is one says 5 & one says 8. Same exact heater, pump & everything. Some sellers evidently found they could get more profit by calling them an 8 than a 5. he has also tested the smaller 2KW units & they are actually different but they had the same fuel pump, speed & usage as the bigger ones but must have been less efficient.
@@oliver90owner they have the same 22ml pumps. If you replace them with 28ml pumps things would be different.
@@xXTheoLinuxXx Yes, things would be different. The extra 27% of fuel added (at the same pumping rate). Would just cause a huge amount of CO and a lot of unburned sooty deposits. Do understand it needs adequate oxygen (in the combustion air) to burn the fuel. IF the fan speed could be increased by another 27%, it might burn cleaner, but then the heat exchanger would not be adequate. The combustion tube would need to be longer, too.
So absolutely a waste of time, cost, and energy for a certain way to waste fuel and mess up the heater. Good try, but a fail.
Nicest installation I've seen.
Many thanks.
Everything is wrong! A very dangerous installation. A small leak in the exhaust and everything is sucked into the building. Lack of backup battery for after-cooling in case of power failure. Power supply located above the exhaust can overheat.
Thank you for posting this video. I've just purchased one of these heaters and hadn't even considered mounting it outside my garage workshop rather than in it. The picture at the end with the all the components labelled was exactly what I was looking for.
Excellent installation, the neatest domestic you tube install I've seen so far. It's given me some great ideas Thanks for uploading.
Losing power and damaging the unit is a good point someone made and why I plug a power supply into a UPS battery back up when using my heater in the basement workshop. As far as pulling warmer inside air back into the unit to be reheated - yes it will be more efficient but no more than you use this you could argue it's not worth cutting another hole in your brick wall. I also use one to heat my RV that sits outside like yours and during freezing temps, it is too hot to hold your hand in front of the vent which easily heats the camper on the lowest setting. I have a few videos posted if you are interested. This is a really neat set up. Great job!
Many thanks for your comment. I had not come across these heaters until recently. I'm amazed at how simple they are in construction and operation. I just hope that it is reliable and keeps going for years to come!
Great job I think these are the best places to be put outside not only for less noise also for safety 👍👍
Your air intake should also be routed into the garage to cycle the air. With this setup you are always feeding cold air into the heater and not recycling the warm air from the garage. The air intake for the combustion chamber needs to be outside as you have it now, but your intake for the heater needs to be cycling from the garage.
Yep - I think you might be right. If the air going into the heater is freezing, the hot air produced by the heater must have a lower temperature than if the air going in was at (say) 20°C or 65°F.
In fact, the heater seems to be very efficient in terms of its use of fuel in my situation so I'm not worried. I use it for a few hours at time and barely notice the level in the 10 litre tank going down. I often use it when it is cold outside, but not freezing (winter has generally been mild in the UK so far this year) - perhaps when the winter bites, I might regret not bringing the air into the heater from inside of the workshop? The case is designed to let me do that if I want.
Many thanks for your interest.
@@KuTee you will find when it is cold and you crank the heater up it will go through fuel pretty fast and real noticeable. That is where recycling the air will make a big difference. I have the same heater and it is installed in my garage and exhausted through the wall and find that it will keep it comfortable at half level and I live in Manitoba Canada which is a bit colder than your place, but when cranked right up it will go through fuel and it will be very noticeable.
@@Richard-sl8xj I'm sure you are right. As I write this, it is new-year's-eve 2021 and the outside temperature is 16 degrees C (61F). It's ridiculous, I hardly need the heater at all!
More seriously, the inside temperature and fuel consumption will depend heavily on how well insulated (and air-tight) the workshop is. I have made a reasonable effort to insulate the walls (50mm of polystyrene sheeting) and ceiling (100mm of rock-wool blanket), but there are air-gaps and some uninsulated areas.
Recycling the air is definitely the best option especially as the outside air gets colder. I've just replied to a later comment and calculated that the diesel consumption of my heater is about 0.4 litres per hour when it is running flat-out (when running at its minimum setting, it consumes about 30% of that).
Best wishes - happy new year!
@@KuTee Also make sure that tee is fireproof, the air blows out at _well_ over 200 C.
@@WaffleStaffel Yep - it is very hot air coming out of the heater. I have not had any issues yet - my 'elbow' is based on the tee which was supplied with the original kit - specifically designed for the ducting.
great job, Im mounting a 2kw on my outside wall next to my back door, ive moved a kitchen unit along to accommodate a 78 amp battery and ive got a 10 amp charger to connect to it. Ill be recycling the internal air through the heater so that it doesn't over work heating cold outside air, I bought a smaller heater as it has been mentioned amongst all the online information that running a 5kw at low power can coke up the burner whereas running a 2kw at full power can be better for the heater in keeping the burn chamber clean, Im also installing sufficient trunking to vent the heat into my living room as well, definitely going to copy your exterior wall mounted box which will be higher as I want to enclose the fuel tank inside it but not so wide with a slightly smaller heater.
I wish someone would draw up some plans and sell them, Im sure your design would be very popular.
if you'd like a decent filter medium for the air intake which consists of a very fine nylon mesh try Alidi's fruit bags available on the fruit isle. they are cheap and cheerful and perfect as washable filters, they also have a drawstring so they can simply be placed over the air intake, the mesh is so fine it will stop dust, insects, blackfly etc. I've also been using them to hold hops for making beer.
Many thanks for your interest. Good idea about the fruit bags!
Best wishes
Bonjour Quentin, merci pour le partage. C'est génial ce que vous avez fait.
Thank you for sharing.
Merci beaucoup pour votre intérêt.
Great video and Instructables post, Quentin. I will be doing something very similar and your work is incredibly helpful.
My only change would be to mount the PSU either indoors (meaning only 12V makes it outside) or instead mount it on the opposite side of the case as it will run far cooler. You could also isolate the combustion intake somewhat in case of a malfunction to ensure there's no way the air can make it into your fresh air intake.
I'm undecided on if I want to recirculate the air for mine. As you've said, we don't get particularly harsh winters in the UK and I will only be running the heater for a few hours at a time. I'm not sure if it's worth the hassle of drilling/cutting out a second brick.
I agree about the poser supply. Surprisingly, rather than problems with water ingress, I think I am more likely to have problems from spiders making their home inside the power supply! The box has several spider's webs inside and I wonder whether they might end up INSIDE the power supply, entering through the holes in its case. If so, they might cause a problem short-circuiting something on the PCB. There are lots of webs inside the main (white) box already.
You might be able to see a black, 3D printed, circular vent on the right-hand-side of the box - this is intended to bring fresh-air into the intake. Perhaps it would have been more sensible to connect the heater directly to the outside air, through the vent-hole using a small bit of pipe. I could have added the vent on the end of the pipe. This would allay people's fears about recirculating the exhaust gases if a fault were to occur.
For me - and my intermittent use, I didn't think it was worth punching another hole through the brick wall to get the input air from the inside of the garage.
I really appreciated the heater a couple of days ago, when the outside temperature was -3°C. It makes a big difference.
Many thanks for your comments.
One of the neatest installation I have seen, the only thing you need to improve on is to pull the air back from the garage. Make it more efficient and cheaper to run . Apart from that it’s spot on
You have combustion air intake and heat exchanger inlet air in competition with each other. You need to bring exchanger air in from the house which will make your setup way way more efficient. Also if you would extend your exhaust pipe inside your box so that it will heat the inside of the box air making the intake air to combustion chamber warmer will also help efficiency.
So many people have suggested this, that I'm beggining to think that my gut-reaction is wrong!! This previous reply of mine sums up my thoughts, but I can't justify it with any maths!
"Pulling warm air from inside, rather than cold air from outside the workshop, will definitely be more efficient and make the workshop warmer; therefore reducing the fuel consumption. Flat-out, it only burns about 0.4 litres per hour, so I'm never too worried (also, it reduces its fuel-consumption rapidly once the workshop has warmed up). I have no way of knowing, but I'm not convinced that recirculating warm air starting at (say) 20C is going to make a HUGE fuel-consumption difference compared to heating the cold outside air starting at (say) freezing point 0C (although MANY comments suggest this!) I can't really compare because we don't have many very-cold days, however I can't say that I've noticed much difference in consumption depending on the outside temperature."
(To justify my comment, I think I need to know the number of cubic metres of air passing through the heater and then see how much extra energy it would need to heat the cold air, compared to warmer air - then I could work out how much extra fuel is needed. The output air is at around 120C I think, and I'm just not convinced that heating the air from 0C to 120C is going to take a HUGE amount more energy that heating it from 20C to 120C. It will definitely need MORE fuel, but is it really significant? I don't know!!!)
Many thanks for your comment
@@KuTee It will make a huge difference on many levels. HUGE!
@@KuTee Here's the thing they are missing. SO many of these heaters fail simply because of carbon buildup/soot from running on lower power levels. They just flatout don't handle it well and it creates a sort of chimney fire and you heater also gets choked out and inefficient. So while you are drawing in colder air and using more fuel, its actually a somewhat better bet assuming its not a long term thing and you are needlessly burning a ton of extra fuel. It'll keep the soot reduced and function better long term. Like you said, an extra 20d isn't massive. My Father-in-law uses one for his snowmobile cabin off grid way up on the mountain where its often 0-20d F. The heater just DUMPS hot air into the cabin and isn't re-circulating.
@@vin9976 I've read about the soot buildup. I think I've seen a video on dismantling and cleaning the unit. I would say that it seems to burn pretty cleanly - the exhaust doesn't seem to have much smoke.
My worst complaint is the cost of diesel in the UK - I'm currently buying it a £1.70 (2 US$) per litre. People who heat their houses can buy what we call 'red diesel' which is the same stuff but without the vehicle-related tax added. I can't find small quantities of red diesel, so end up going to a regular garage.
Thanks for your interest. Best wishes.
The most neatest set up I have seen. Well done. Hat’s off to you.
Been running one of these things for a while. I really like it definitely needs to be installed indoors somewhere and exhausted outside. There’s other videos on CZcams that show someone who installed it outside and it will burn through the fuel very very fast when it’s cold out.
Personlly, I wouldn't want it mounted inside my single garage, due to the noise which it produces - many people DO place them inside, so others are not so worried.
Pulling warm air from inside, rather than cold air from outside the workshop, will definitely be more efficient and make the workshop warmer; therefore improving the fuel consumption. Flat-out, it only burns about 0.4 litres per hour, so I'm never too worried (also, it reduces its fuel-consumption rapidly once the workshop has warmed up). I have no way of knowing, but I'm not convinced that recirculating warm air starting at (say) 20C is going to make a HUGE fuel-consumption difference compared to heating the cold outside air starting at (say) freezing point 0C (although MANY comments suggest this!) I can't really compare because we don't have many very-cold days, however I can't say that I've noticed much difference in consumption depending on the outside temperature.
Your comment may be intended to mean that the heater is, in some way, more efficient if it is warm (ie the heater ITSELF is warmer - nothing to do with the air which is being heated). I don't think this is relevant - I'm not sure, but I can't see any logical reason for this, because the working part of the heater is almost instantly extremely hot and a 10C or 20C degree difference in the environment around it, will surely not affect it?
Many thanks for your interest - best wishes
nice setup, only change i would suggest is moving the air intake either to the inside of the shed or to the outside of the box. Not a fan of the air intake being in a closed box with the exhaust. one small leak from the exhaust could result in the exhaust fumes entering the air intake.
Very nice install. Many companies are selling these. Bought one and instructions say have vent come straight out of heater for atleast 1-ft. before making a turn. But if yours works well then very good. Thanks again for posting.
I must admit, that the 'instruction book' I received with the kit was so bad, that I barely understood it. I was not worried about the vent leaving the heater and turning so quickly, because the total length of the hot air tube is about 30cm. It is so short, that I don't believe there can be any resistance to the airflow.
Many thanks for your interest.
@@KuTee you’d be surprised about back pressure and flow restriction in ducting and without examining flow tables I guess that the location of your 90 bend reduces the flow by about half to that of a straight run. Besides that your packaging is BRILLIANT! What if the entire unit was indoors and the outside pass through included only the exhaust pipe and perhaps the combustion air pipe? Would there be odor? Could the unit be
@@KuTee sound insulated?
Nice solution!
Please change the power supply and connect a battery between the power supply and the heater.
Otherwise, in the event of a power failure, the heater will overheat and destroy plastic parts and electronics.
Reason: The shutdown procedure with the fan running is no longer available.
My solution:
A 9Ah motorcycle battery and a PWM charge controller
Connect the power supply to the solar input and connect the battery.
You always have a reserve in the event of a power failure and the system will shut down correctly or continue to run.
Hi, thanks for your interest.
Yes, you are 100% correct, and there is a huge amount of discussion about this on these comments and on the accompanying Instructable:
www.instructables.com/Chinese-Diesel-Heater-Workshop-Install/
To cut a long story short, I explain that I live in an urban area and never have a power cuts, and in any case, I only ever use the heater when I am actively in the workshop, so I would know if it was operating when I had a power cut. Yes, in this circumstance, I might have to watch the heater destroy itself and that would be regrettable. However, in my specific situation, I'm happy to take the risk.
However, everyone should be aware of the potential for a power-cut-melt-down and use their own judgement. Your solution looks excellent, as long as the battery can supply 10A for a few minutes. I would probably use an old 12V car battery and a simple mains trickle charger to keep it fully charged. It is vital that the battery must be able to provide at least 10A at 12V. When starting up, the glow plug takes a large current (8A?) and the fan/etc takes 2.5A. I believe that many installations have low-voltage error problems due to poor batteries or lack of current capacity.
Thank you for raising this important topic.
Best wishes
@@KuTee
Thanks for the reply!
I understand your concerns about the size of the battery.
If the power goes out while the heater is starting, the combustion chamber is not hot. Therefore, no problem if the power goes out at this moment.
If the heater has been running for a few minutes / hours, then only the fan is running with the said 2.5Ah output.
You're right, a 14Ah battery would be a better choice.
Therefore, with a 14Ah battery (if we assume 50% of the nominal power as available power) the heater could run for around 3 hours without public electricity and will start the heater "normally" in the event of a power failure in the starting phase.
When the heater detects "low voltage", it shuts down in a controlled manner and switches off.
Therefore, together with the PWM charge controller and the existing power supply
(I would recommend an old 19.5V laptop power supply) you always have a full battery.
Yep - spot on. Many thanks
I also sharpie raised letters on plastic things, I saw that and I appreciate you.
WOW, great video!! Love it, also very good: your workshop website about the heater!! THX for sharing! Ciao Willem, the Netherlands
Hallo Willem, mag ik je wat vragen, welke voeding 230-12volt heeft u gebruikt. Ik heb er 4 waar de kachel telkens een storing op geeft. Op accu doet de kachel het goed😌
I like this very neat and tidy, thanks for the share
This is great! I'm getting ready to install one of these in our camp trailer. the more installs I see, the more I can decide how I want mine. you do a great job detailing it out. of course there will be things you could do better or differently but this appears to meet your needs quite effectively. Nicely done! Thanks for sharing!
Many thanks for your interest. I hope your install goes well. Being warm is great!
This a great informational video. So much info. To the point & so well documented!
I can’t thank you enough Sir!!!
Run your exhaust gas through a old wall radiator and you can gain extra heat, as there is a lot heat loss from the exhaust
Well done mate, NICE Build and storage unit!
To protect from sudden shotdown damages due to interupted electric power it is recommended to run the heater from a 12V battery that is constantly fed by a charger...I've heard.
I agree, backup battery power is definitely a good idea. I have never had a power cut in the years I have lived here (it may yet happen with the closing of most of the UK's power stations and our reliance on wind and solar energy!), but I reassure myself that I only run the heater when I am actually inside the workshop, and if I did have a power cut while I was using the heater, I would be present and able to avoid catastrophe (perhaps with the loss of the heater?). However, for many users (the majority?), a proper battery-based power supply would be essential.
One reason for my use of a mains power supply is to avoid the problems caused by ineffective battery set-ups. The unit draws 8A - 10A at start-up and close-down, and I suspect that the users who are unhappy with their heaters are actually suffering from a battery which cannot sustain this current demand. They then get intermittent faults and resets, etc. There are lots of internet users, criticising these units - perhaps due to this problem? I, like many users, have found the heater to be brilliant (so far).
Is the power supply unit safe from the elements being outside the building but inside a box, ie: dampness from the cold
Very nice installation, they are brilliant heaters. 🇬🇧
Wow ! What a clean install!!
Mnay thanks for the comment - Best wishes
Great video ive just purchased one of these from vevor arrived in 2 days,your setup is brilliant kudos to you
Nice! very clean looking install
Wow, how neat is that installation?
That is nice!
Many thanks for your interest. Best wishes
That’s brilliant, thank you. I have been looking for ideas for a build in an external housing and this is perfect. !!
Great - thanks for your interest.
I twisted a ball of 5m 0.25mm nichrome wire and placed it in the combustion chamber to expand the heat zone. Fuel vapor burns better as it passes through the high temperature zone. The effect was staggering. The fuel supply had to be restricted as it started to fail due to overheating. An aquarium metal tap had to be installed to limit fuel supply by 50%. Then the output has a 143c airflow at 1.6Hz and with 5l running in 27h in my variant. The fuel burns so well that there is almost no smoke from the exhaust pipe, only weak steam. I suggest you give it a try.
Can you do a video on your modifications?
Right just having a shower and realised how dangerous your set up is.
First remember these are cab heaters, designed with box inside and air inlet and exhaust for burner out side.
You have your exhaust in the same box as fresh air intake. The silencers have a drain hole in the bottom, also any gas might leak from pipe joints. Also wind can blow gases back to the intake. You need to replicate a van fitting with box inside and burner pipes outside, as my camper van. I see these stand alone units being sold, i think they are dangerous.
I would modify box. Put a mounting flood under heater to separate exhaust from the heater, leave bottom of box open to air.
Woah! That is a nice and clean setup! Thanks for the info-video!
Very professional looking installation.
Great review and idea for mounting. Was tempted to get one to heat my workshop but wasn't sure how to mount it (inside / outside)
Love the box you made to mounting it. Might have to copy your idea.
Thanks for the video. Very helpful.
Glad it was helpful!
Hi. You have certainly put some work into your set up and it looks great. I am in the UK as you are and use the all in one 5 KW model. I basically have it on a old workmate stand and feed the exhaust out through the wall of my wooden workshop with a bit of scaffold pipe as a heat shield. I am lucky as my house uses oil central heating so I use that kerosene with a 20% ratio of road diesel. I use the diesel added as this give the pump its lubricant it needs. Great video. Thank you. Ian
Many thanks for your comment - I wish I could get hold of small quantities of 'red diesel' (see another of my replies for more information on 'red diesel') it has far less tax added to it (about one-fifth), but is virtually identical.
I would definitely be using an IP55 rated power supply, and run 240v cabling such that no inner insulation is exposed. Although out of direct sunlight, not sure T&E should be used outside like this.
They also run happily on 50/50 vegetable oil and petrol.
This looks to be the same design as the Espar brand heater in my semi truck. I use it to heat the cab overnight without the truck running.
Yep - I think they are "identical" copies! Thanks for your interest.
beautiful install mate
I would make also a battery powered backup. In case this installation runs on high, and the power goes off, it will burn. The outside of the diesel heater will meld or even burn. Normally it has a cool-down Cycle. Without power it cannot make the cool downcycle.
Hi Thanks for this. Yes, there is a huge amount of discussion about this in the comments, and for some, it should be a real worry. Full details about possible problems and numerous solutions are in the excellent comments.
For me the TLDR is that I never have power cuts and my heater is only running when I am in the workshop, so at least I can make sure it doesn't burn down my workshop, in the unlikely event of a power cut!
Anyone who has occasional power cuts or who would plan to leave the heater unattended, should definitely have a battery in the system (the battery must be easily able to supply 10A for several minutes at start-up to avoid problems).
In the UK, if the rush to net-zero EV-madness continues (unlikely) then we will certinly suffer numerous power-cuts or 'load sharing' in the years to come as we couldn't possibly meet the required supply for all the vehicles and home theoretically switching to electricity! Then I'll get a battery - if I'm still around.
Best wishes
Thanks for your comment.
Best looking install yet.
Many thanks for your interest
That's a great installation ! Thanks for sharing.
Wow what a nice clean install. couple points.... I would change out that hard to fill/non certified 10l tank and get a 25L Jerry can. Keep it on the floor, get a second cap,drill a 1/4" hole in that second cap and run the fuel from there. Cut another hole in the brick, I see you made the box future proof by having a hole, I think its just a waste heating up cold air and forcing warm air out of your house through all the gaps. If its pumping in 500CFM its pushing out 500CFM.
Yep, you are right on both counts. The kit I bought came complete with a steel 'dip pipe' and flange, which is intended to be fitted to the top of a vehicle diesel tank (cut a 25mm hole in the top of the tank, bolt the flange and gasket to the tank and let the dip rod go down somewhere near the bottom of the tank - not the very-bottom, or the heater would be able to suck the tank dry, stopping the vehicle). I didn't use this, but it would be a really good solution.
Many thanks for your interest.
By recirculating the air from the workshop over the heater you would make it so much more efficient.
Yep, I think you are correct. For my purposes, the heater works brilliantly as it is. In the UK we do not get deeply cold winters like some parts of the world (eg - 20°C or 0°F), ours tend to hover around 0°C or 32°F. I didn't really want to bust another hole through the brick wall. However, it would definitely be a more efficient solution.
Many thanks for your interest.
cold fresh air inlet pie also into the workshop . The temperature will upgrade faster.
A very neat solution. I need to do something very similar.
Nice clean setup mate but you need to extend your exhaust and have the silencer outside of the box, they are not air tight and are made with gaps between the metal to allow condensation to drain out. At the moment your inlet air is in the same box as your exhaust and that will be getting sucked into your house.
Thanks for your interest.
Yep - you're right. I have modified the setup slightly, to suck the air which is to be heated, directly from OUTSIDE the box, just in case there is an exhaust leak of some sort inside the box. This just entailed extending the air intake from the right-hand-side of the heater-unit, a few inches towards the side of the box, to meet up with the black 3-d printed grid which is visible on the right-hand edge of the white, wooden enclosure. This is all detailed in the accompanying Instructable. See www.instructables.com/Chinese-Diesel-Heater-Workshop-Install/
Best wishes
@@KuTee Nice one 👍
It’s the neatest nicest setup I’ve seen in a long time 😃 I have 7 diesel heaters I think they are the best alternative to heating I have one in my house running now as well anyway have a great day 🙂
This is a very neat n tidy set up the one thing i would change is run the intake inside to recirculate . these heaters are pretty cool arent they .
Yep - really simple in construction and easy to operate. No doubt, recirculating is a good idea for efficiency - it also stops air being pushed out of the workshop by fan-pressure.
Many thanks for your interest.
Very neat installation, and very clear video. Thank you.
Many thanks for your interest.
here are some instructions on how to create a auto switching 12v power source for your diesel heaters, for some reason it would not let me create a new string for this. but the instructions are here
great setup, very neat and well thought out. Guess what I'm ordering for my garage?
A very neat professional looking job, but I would be concerned about the heat from the exhaust so close to the fuel line and power supply, have you considered exhaust wrap to insulate the exhaust pipe and muffler to protect these.
I think the exhaust-wrap idea is excellent, and it is so cheap for this tiny length of exhaust pipe and silencer, that it is an obvious winner. I'm not worried about the proximity of the pipes, as the inside temperature of the box is not great - even after it has been running for hours. The wrap would increase the temperature of the exhaust gases which is no bad thing and keeps condensation at bay. The wrap is a bit of a no-brainer, so I'll buy some and fit it.
Many thanks for the suggestion.
NICE n clean job - well done !!!
Quentin, thanks for a very clean and tidy job setting this heater up. To demonstrate my lack of knowledge may I ask, is the exhaust exit and fuel entry pipe line fixed as shown next to each other to the body of the heater, if so , this would suggest they are designed to be next to each other in any set up. Also, could the exhaust be fitted straight down, exiting the enclosure box with any condensation running straight out the end rather than the weep hole, perhaps even having the silencer external to the enclosure as done on many motor homes ? Always easy to find improvements after somebody else had done the job, but hope you dont mind the questions. cheers.
The exhaust, fuel entry and combustion air entry points are all together. They all essentially go straight into the main combustion chamber aluminium casting. Hence, there is no latitude about where the three entry points are.
A straight-down exhaust system would be perfect - as you say, any condensation would then leave the exhaust without any problem. I shortened the stainless-steel exhaust pipe by 40cm or so to make everything more compact. The pipe is quite thick and does not bend very easily - cutting it down was a mistake because I was never able to expand the cut pipe-end where it enters the silencer. Try as I might, the stainless-steel pipe could not be expanded to fit over the silencer. I ended up putting a short section of steel pipe which went just inside the silencer and just inside the exhaust pipe. There is a drip-hole built-into the silencer. The exhaust pipe should not be extended (in theory, some people on CZcams have) due to the increased back-pressure affecting the combustion process.
Having the exhaust system completely outside the box would be ideal.
Many thanks for your interest.
This is a neat layout, I'm guessing you knocked up the box using ply and painted it after drilling the holes you needed?
I was going to ask how it’s waterproofed looks a great installation though.
Nice tidy setup❤️😊
wow! thats beautiful work
here are some instructions on how to create a switching 12v system for 2 different power sources.
TiBohne´s Garage Diesel Heater God all 4 Tuning Pins
You want to run it off a battery on constant charge if you want to power off grid. Because if don't have immediate backup power and your power goes out unexpectedly your heater won't go through shutdown mode and will fry it. That's the major flaw I see with this. All it takes is one time for it to happen.
I agree, backup battery power is definitely a good idea. I have never had a power cut in the years I have lived here (it may yet happen with the closing of most of the UK's power stations and our reliance on wind and solar energy!), but I reassure myself that I only run the heater when I am actually inside the workshop, and if I did have a power cut while I was using the heater, I would be present and able to avoid catastrophe (perhaps with the loss of the heater?). However, for many users (the majority?), a proper battery-based power supply would be essential.
One reason for my use of a mains power supply is to avoid the problems caused by ineffective battery set-ups. The unit draws 8A - 10A at start-up and close-down, and I suspect that the users who are unhappy with their heaters are actually suffering from a battery which cannot sustain this current demand. They then get intermittent faults and resets, etc. There are lots of internet users, criticising these units - perhaps due to this problem? I, like many users, have found the heater to be brilliant (so far).
Never seen wood enclosures look anything but welfare-awful.. except this one, misses awful by a mile and is so attractive it makes "very nice" look like sunbaked road-kill..
But 12 amps! Brutal for a mobile application. ..3x my Air Conditioner's draw.
Many thanks for the comment.
To be fair, the 12 amps at 12V refers to the maximum capacity of my power-supply. In fact the maximum draw for the unit only happens during start-up and shut-down (probably a minute or two each) - this is around 8A to 10A and is to power the glow-plug inside the combustion chamber (and also for the fan).
Once the unit has started and combustion has been established, the glow-plug is switched off and the only draw is the fan (1A to 2A?), which has a variable speed (depending on the throughput of hot air).
These units are really widely used across the cooler parts of the globe - initially for truck cabs then for RVs, caravans and boats. These Chinese copies are 20% of the cost of the 'commercially available' originals and seem to be generally well-received. I suspect that when people grumble about their operation, it may be because they do not have a battery/power-supply capable of reliably supplying the 8A-10A needed for the start-up glow-plug.
Many thanks for your interest. Best wishes.
Just a small point. If the jubilee comes off the exhaust, combustion co gets drawn into the workshop. Nice box though
It has been suggested that there is a marginal possibility of the exhaust silencer splitting, or one of the exhaust clamps working loose and permitting the exhaust pipe to come adrift. Were this to happen, the exhaust from the heater could fill the box and find its way into the air destined to be heated and pumped into the room.
It is hard to see, but there is a vent (black plastic) in the side of the box, immediately by the room air intake. As it stands, this would not remove the problem, but if a short section of the 4" flexible tube were added, so that the air which is to be heated up is drawn from OUTSIDE the box, then any potential for exhaust air entering the room is removed. This is a very sensible modification to the design.
Thankyou for your video its great and i hope to build my setup for my summer house the same.
I have been really pleased with it so far this winter. I was pleased to have the unit outside the workshop, on the other side of a brick wall - I have no problem with noise from it. If you summer house is wooden, it may be sensible to think about noise - eg 18mm plywood or a layer of insulation.
Many thanks for your interest.
@@KuTee Hi, yeah summer house is insulated and at least 90mm thick but its 20x12 ft so fair bit space to warm up,i nearly all piped up ready to go just waiting for exhaust silencer to turn up
You might want to consider circulating inside air instead pulling cold air from outside. You are wasting too much fuel this way
Yep - I think you might be right. If the air going into the heater is freezing, the hot air produced by the heater must have a lower temperature than if the air going in was at (say) 20°C or 65°F.
In fact, the heater seems to be very efficient in terms of its use of fuel in my situation so I'm not worried. I use it for a few hours at time and barely notice the level in the 10 litre tank going down. I often use it when it is cold outside, but not freezing (winter has generally been mild in the UK so far this year) - perhaps when the winter bites, I might regret not bringing the air into the heater from inside of the workshop? The case is designed to let me do that if I want.
Thanks for your interesting comment. Best wishes.
I was about to ask the same question.
Might that cause a vacuum situation if the room being heated is well sealed?
@@dannyboy8067 no, because you are circulating the same amount of air. just like in your car
It’s obviously more efficient recirculating the existing warm air from indoors but I would rather pull fresh air from outside. Also creates positive pressure inside the home of pulling fresh air from outside.
I would put combustion inlet away from fresh air inlet. Have fresh air inlet draw air from inside garage so you recirculate garage air that is already warm and dry. The combustion inlet might draw back fumes when off.
The noise is mainly the exhaust, can sound like a jet engine. I don't notice heater noise in camper, just the rush of air.
I notice there are some newer box silencers. I will try one on my camper. I did wonder if experiment if exhaust could go into bucket of water to cut noise. The Chinese instructions seem to show exhaust about few inches above pointing at ground. Not seen any videos on YT show that.
Also enter fuel pipe from top of tank, i realised this after i fitted to bottom of tank risking leaks. Why? The vehicle fuel pipe shows it going in top of tank. So pump is capable of sucking fuel.
Hi - good point about the fresh air inlet coming from inside the garage. There is lots of dicussion about this in the comments. There were various practical reasons why I didn't do this!
Best wishes Thanks for your comment.
@@KuTee Well yes would need knocking through another hole in wall, might not be convenient.
My only concern is the air intake inside the same box as the muffler which has a drain hole. Surely you’re drawing up a small amount of exhaust fume coming from the drain hole and sending it into your shed?
I see the hole in the box beneath the muffler but I still would prefer to have it on the outside.
Other than that, a nice setup!
This is a death trap.
If the exhaust hose leaks, carbon monoxide enters inside the workshop.
Otherwise, the installation is really nice!
I guess you are right - I have installed a carbon monoxide alarm in the garage, near the hot-air input, so I am aware that carbon monoxide is a potential hazard in any heating system using carbon-based fuels (gas, oil, wood, coal, etc) and have taken that step to mitigate the risk.
However, I think eventually a person needs to back their own competence in construction. I'm pretty happy to trust a thick stainless-steel tube, securely clamped at both ends - particularly when the tube is only 40cm long.
There are several areas in this project where my own incompetence would pose a risk. For example, both the electrical wiring, and the storage / delivery of the diesel, need to be safe. I'm not sure that I would ever do anything DIY if I didn't trust myself to do a half-decent job!
A poorer reaction to your comment would be to suggest that you look at the many other installations of these heaters which are on CZcams. With some of them, I would definitely be agreeing with you and worrying about exhaust gases feeding back into the room - however, they don't affect me.
Many thanks for your comment - this is a really important topic, thank you for raising it. Best wishes.
It would be easy to add fresh air tube between heater intake and a ventilation hole in the box to ensure fresh air supply to the workshop. Your installation is indeed extremely neat and built with great care. Just add one part and it will be safe and perfect. I'm planning somethin similar to my summer house guest shed
it's nice build looks very professional. this box is wood one? you are not worried that it will catch fire
Very nicely done great video thank you
Glad you enjoyed it.
I see rain getting in and shorting it out.
I worried about that as well. The case is designed to avoid that, with a sloping 'roof' intended to guide the rain away from the wall (and hence the back panel of the box). I have also put a 'rail' screwed to the wall above the sloping roof, but there is not a shot of it on the video. I'm going to add a photo of the 'rail' to the Instructible which is referenced in my comment under this video.
I'm pretty happy with the arrangement. We have has a huge amount of heavy rain in the UK and the inside of the unit is bone-dry (so far).
Best wishes - many thanks for your comment.
Muy bien montado buen trabajo me gusta
Why dont you pull the inlet air thats heated from outside the box?
Any leak of combustionfumes will make it into the house.
Also the fuelline close to the hot exhaust will age quickly.
Nice and tidy very good
Can you please give some approx information of the size of your box please. I found your instructable very helpful and love the idea of the heater outside. Would bring the intake air into the workshop as others suggest. Thank you for a very concise video. 74 years old and still learning'
Taken from a reply to one of the comments -
72cm x 48cm x 18cm ( W x H x D ) The backboard is 72cm x 48cm - you can see that the roof slopes down a few centimetres, so the front face is only 43 cm or so high .
@@kennyjacketblock3333 Thank you for your reply will now build one for my workshop
There is a little more information on the linked Instructible:
www.instructables.com/Chinese-Diesel-Heater-Workshop-Install/
Step 5 has been added which talks about the box size. Step 5 might take a day or two to appear on their site?
@@KuTee thank you
Thank you for updating your page , i’ve just built a similar one based on your design but i’ve made it portable with the fuel tank in a compartment at the back but the front compartment which houses the heater and electrics is pretty much the same as yours So thank you for posting your idea and design , it has help quite a few people out judging by the comments 👍
mooi gemaakt
I'm sure that the muffler is heating some of the air for the intakes.
Reports of theses blowing mother boards when not powered by a battery.because of a power surge or sudden lose of power such as a power cut
This setup looks great!, So i been thinking bout getting one for my place and would like to get the heater and the parts not the all in one. May I ask what did you use to build your enclosure any kind of heat resistant paint for the wood or something like that? Also the dimensions everything fits nice and tidy in there lol thank you!
An just another question, is the fuel pump string enough to have the fuel tank bellow the system?
Hi. The enclosure is made from 12mm plywood - external grade (I think). The heater does not generate any heat in the box - it is designed to use in truck cabs, RVs and caravans, etc, so the enclosure does not need anything special to combat heat - there is none.
I did buy some expensive 'external quality' household paint - just because I wanted the plywood to be well protected from rain, etc.
The fuel pump is strong enough to suck up diesel, but there is a limit. I believe that the maximum permisible 'lift' is stated to be 1 metre, however, I'm guessing that a little more would not cause a problem. By 'lift' I mean the vertical distance between the surface-level of diesel in the fuel tank and the pump. This should be measured from the surface of the diesel when the tank is just about empty. (There is also a limit to the LENGTH of pipe which the pump will cope with when sucking the diesel. I think this was theoretically specified as 5 metres, but the diameter of the pipe, and its material must surely have an effect.) I would have a look at the numerous examples of these heaters which feature in CZcams videos, and see if you can find an example which sucks up fuel from a low tank.
You will find details of the enclosure size on the associated Instructable:
www.instructables.com/Chinese-Diesel-Heater-Workshop-Install/
This also has links to a really good series of Australian videos, which might help to answer your questions.
I hope this helps. Best wishes, thanks for your interest.
Why on earth did you mount it outside. Its much more efficient is the air intake is coming from the inside where the air is already warmer. Then you can recirculate the air. Even if you did want to mount the unit outside you should have fed an air intake from inside the garage.
Looks nice 👌
Pretty good job
Many thanks for your interest.
Hi this is a fab video. Love it. About to do something similar. My question is have you had any issues with this being outside in current freezing temperatures. Can the severe freezing damage the unit?
I didn't run mine in the current cold snap, I'm afraid (around -3C to -5C). The only potential problem would be with the diesel heading towards becoming a gel/wax. I think the temperatures we have been having would not cause a problem, but without an 'anti-gelling agent' I'm guessing that there might be a problem at lower temperatures. Typically, the additives are used in a 1:1000 ratio and claim to protect against waxing down to -25C. I can't find a clear explanation about exactly at what temperature the waxing becomes a problem - Wikipedia suggest that in the UK diesel fuel is supplied in two formulations 'Summer' and 'Winter' depending on the date. I have no clue whether this is what actually happens - it suggests that Summer diesel is starts to clog a typical filter below -5C and Winter diesel is good down to -25C. Whether this is accurate, I have no idea. In the UK, I can't recall us ever having problems with cars' fuel waxing in a typical winter?
Best wishes
@@KuTee thanks for the great informative response. I’m also guessing you’d no concerns about the unit being outside in the freezing temperatures and any damage that may cause or did the box provide appropriate insulation?
I'm surprised that you didn't add a 2nd tank on there so you dont have to add more fuel as often or place the fuel line threw the cap of a diesel can that holds a larger quantity of fuel
Thanks very much for the link and all the information. How are you finding the heaters capabilities in this cold snap
Very neat and tidy! What's the size of your workshop?
Hi - basically a single garage. not brilliantly insulated. 2" of polystyrene type insulation on a couple of walls.
The heater has loads of spare capacity, it normally only ticks over, once the first 10 minutes of heat has got it up to temperature. In my part of the UK the we don't have really cold temperatures. 0 degrees C is reasonably frequently, but -3C or -4C occasionally. -10 very rare.
Best wishes thanks for your interest.
Brilliant video and I am now doing the same for mine.
Did you use any fibreboard between the heater and the wood?
Thank you
No. Some people seem to worry about the temperature of the heater itself. It is quite a clever design, with the fan pushing air through the aluminium channels which surround the combustion chamber. This keeps everything cool. The whole unit is designed for use in recreational vehicles and has a simple plastic shroud which would melt if it got too hot.
The biggest worry is if its power supply fails for some reason. The combustion would stop instantly, as would the fuel supply, but so would the fan, and the residual heat from the combustion chamber would not be taken away by the airflow, so may well start to melt the heater itself.
Those mufflers leak exhaust. They are designed to leak and you are sucking exhaust into the heater and blowing it into your breathing space. Not good.
It has been suggested that there is a marginal possibility of the exhaust silencer splitting, or one of the exhaust clamps working loose and permitting the exhaust pipe to come adrift. Were this to happen, the exhaust from the heater could fill the box and find its way into the air destined to be heated and pumped into the room.
It is hard to see, but there is a vent (black plastic) in the side of the box, immediately by the room air intake. As it stands, this would not remove the problem, but if a short section of the the 4" flexible tube were added, so that the air which is to be heated up is drawn from OUTSIDE the box, then any potential for exhaust air entering the room is removed. This is a very sensible modification to the design.
Hi Quentin - thanks so much for the helpful video, I'm looking at getting and installing one of these for my log cabin which is an office/playroom and so I too wanted to keep it outside. With this in mind and now some time has passed do you have any further tips or hints or things you would do differently? Thanks again, Lance.
Hi - thanks for your interest.
I don't really have any modifications - it's all working well. If you look at the comments, there are lots of really good ideas floating around.
I have a linked instructable:
www.instructables.com/Chinese-Diesel-Heater-Workshop-Install/
At the end (Step 5 - which may take a day or two to appear), is a comment suggesting that the main air intake should not be taking its air from INSIDE the box - just in case the exhaust system has a fault and leaks into the box. It would be better to use a few inches of the 4" trunking to join the big air intake of the heater to the hole in the side of the box so that air from inside the box cannot be drawn into the room. Also, many people have suggested that the unit would be more efficient if the room air was circulated - ie the air intake should be getting its supply from the room not the outside air.
You will find various references to what happens if the mains power supply fails while the unit is operating. My unit does not have a battery at all. If the unit is running and the mains fails, the unit will possibly self-destruct! The combustion unit is essentially air-cooled by the forced air from the fan. If the mains fails, the fan stops (thankfully, so does the deisel pump) but the residual heat from the combustion chamber may be enought to damage the unit. Having a car battery - or similar - would remove this possibility completely (but, be warned, it must be able to supply 10A-11A without dropping its voltage when the glow-plug is being used, if random errors are to be avoided). I have never worried about this because I've never had a power cut - let alone while the unit is operating. However, there is a marginal possibility of the UK having to 'load share' this winter, so maybe, I'll be looking for a battery - my workshop might then be the only warm place I have!
Best wishes
A great design which I'd like to copy?
Have you used standard contiboard which could absorb damp, or it it perhaps exterior ply? It's a lovely idea! Would you consider some insulation for the electrics etc.? Regards Stephen M
Hi. Thanks for your interest.
I used exterior ply, which I think would be better than contiboard or chipboard because it is a little more resistant to moisture. However, the box will probably not last for too many years, without some maintenance! It should outlast me as a pensioner. I keep an eye on the electrics and some careful insulation might be beneficial.
Great and really instructive vidéo, thanks for sharing. And great installation too! Just buy one for the room of my big Son, it's not connected to the house. I Think to do a quite same - maybe not so clean 😉- installation. Do You know if I can extend the exhaust pipe verticaly and put the silencer over the roof - about 2,5 m high-?
Unfortunately, I don't really know the answer. If it were me, I think I would be reasonably happy to carry out your plan - I'm not even sure that the silencer would be necessary - just have a plain pipe ( a 2.5m pipe would surely do the silencing job???). There should be no possibility of rain going down the exhaust pipe. The pipe could get very hot, so some sort of insulation might be necessary if it can touch anything. I would have thought that the long vertical run would enhance the updraught, so not cause any problem with the combustion draught. I have seen some CZcams videos where people have extended the exhaust pipe, but not by as much as 2.5m and not vertically. I can't really foresee any problem - but what do I know?
Hopefully, someone else can comment more knowledgebly! Best of luck.
. @KuTee Thanks a lot for your answer! I've never seen a vertical exhaust pipe on such a diesel heater. I imagine that the main problem of a vertical pipe is the condensation, so I could try to put the silencer and its evacuation hole at the bottom and the rest of the pipe after, untill the top of the roof but not sure it's efficent and safe. I will make some test and we'll see 😉. Thanks again.
Doesn't that box get awful hot inside with the exhaust and muffler in there? I'd be concerned about pulling some of the exhaust into the hot air intake with that muffler there. Do you use a carbon monoxide detector anywhere inside?
Hi, Thanks for your interest. No, the box is always cool. The heater itself never gets warm (hopefully all its heat ends up in the workshop!) The exhaust is very hot, but there is plenty of ventilation and it's not an issue. Several people have suggested wrapping some fibreglass strip around the exhaust, which would be an idea if it were a problem.
I have made a modification since the video, to answer the concerns about sucking exhaust fumes into the air destined for the workshop. In the video, the air going into the workshop was extracted from INSIDE the box, but the modification extends the input tube a few centimetres so that it connects to the black vent on the top right hand side of the box, so the air now comes from the outside. Details of this are in the accompanying Instructable:
www.instructables.com/Chinese-Diesel-Heater-Workshop-Install/
I have a carbon monoxide detector in the workshop!
Thanks for you excellent questions. Best wishes.
Otherwise nice build 👍🇸🇪
power supply Not exterior grid. Moisture will definitely attack it
Clean install - I like it. Hmm wonder if you're an engineer? ha ha don't answer that. Does the brick wall insulate you from the sound of the pump or can you still hear it?
I can't hear the pump inside at all. It is mounted on the rubber 'bracket' which was supplied with the kit. If it had been audible and annoying, I would have made something to isolate the pump even more and hence stop the sound conducting through the wall (the pump is not really loud in itself, but it 'fires' up to 5 times a second and this is quite percussive, so transmits by conduction).
The pump is silent, but inside the garage, you can hear the fan and the rush of hot air coming in, which probably includes some combustion sound as well. I don't mind this at all. Once the garage is up to temperature (some minutes) the fan reduces speed and the heater noise becomes very quiet.
Thanks for your comment. Happy new year.
@@KuTee Thank you. Happy New Year!!
Everything is wrong! A very dangerous installation. A small leak in the exhaust and everything is sucked into the building. Lack of backup battery for after-cooling in case of power failure. Power supply located above the exhaust can overheat.
@@rolidcz7954 RoliD Cz - thank you for your comment, which you need not have posted in several different places. I have responded to most of your criticisms in my frequent replies (it would be helpful if you read the existing comments to avoid duplication for people interested in the topic). I have brought together some of my existing responses below, to avoid you having to look yourself.
Best wishes - thanks for your interest.
---------------
"A small leak in the exhaust and everything is sucked into the building."
I guess you are right - I have installed a carbon monoxide alarm in the garage, near the hot-air input, so I am aware that carbon monoxide is a potential hazard in any heating system using carbon-based fuels (gas, oil, wood, coal, etc) and have taken that step to mitigate the risk.
However, I think eventually a person needs to back their own competence in construction. I'm pretty happy to trust a thick stainless-steel tube, securely clamped at both ends - particularly when the tube is only 40cm long.
There are several areas in this project where my own incompetence would pose a risk. For example, both the electrical wiring, and the storage / delivery of the diesel, need to be safe. I'm not sure that I would ever do anything DIY if I didn't trust myself to do a half-decent job!
A poorer reaction to your comment would be to suggest that you look at the many other installations of these heaters which are on CZcams. With some of them, I would definitely be agreeing with you and worrying about exhaust gases feeding back into the room - however, they don't affect me.
---------------
"Lack of backup battery for after-cooling in case of power failure"
One draw-back of using a mains-powered supply is what happens if there is a power-cut when the heater is operating. The suggestion is that the residual heat in the unit will mean that it will destroy itself by overheating/melting if there is no power to run the cooling fan. I think this suggestion is likely to be true! As I never have power-cuts, the likelihood of having one when the heater is running seems remote - I hope!
Many people use a motor bike battery to operate these heaters (if they are not in an RV, etc). I could fit one inside my cabinet and thought of your idea - I might yet implement it. My hesitation is two-fold. I believe that some of the problems which people describe with these heaters is that they do not take account of the 8A demand from the 'glow plug' and the 2A demand for the fan. A regular car or RV battery can easily supply this current, but it would push a motor bike battery to its limits. One solution would be to use a motor bike battery and constantly run it constantly with a battery-charger. This is my second worry - If I did this for a few years, would I ever know whether the battery could actually meet the demand when a power cut hits and it is called upon to do its thing? I suspect that after a time, the capacity of the battery may well decrease to a point that it could not do its job anyway! Surprisingly, the glow plug is operated as the heater shuts down (to ensure that the diesel is properly burnt I think), so in a power cut, it needs 8A + 2A whilst it is shutting down (2 or 3 minutes).
I agree about moving the power supply indoors and bringing the 12V through to the outside. Surprisingly, rather than problems with water ingress, I think I am more likely to have problems from spiders making their home inside the power supply! The box has several spider's webs inside and I wonder whether they might end up INSIDE the power supply, entering through the holes in its case. If so, they might cause a problem short-circuiting something on the PCB. There are lots of webs inside the main (white) box already.
---------------
"Power supply located above the exhaust can overheat."
In my unit there are absolutely no worries about heat build-up because the box is not perfectly sealed. I bet the installation instructions advise that there should be some ventilation to avoid heat build-up. If it were completely sealed in some way I guess that there might be the potential for a problem??? Bear in mind that you have to guide the exhaust to the outside air.
Hi Quentin - Excellent installation that I will be copying almost identically now my heater has arrived but I have a couple of questions shown at the end. I will probably use a metal tube to feed the air into the garage if I can get some, just to remove any worries about 200c air running through plastic but if I can get suitable heat proof plastic I would be happy to use that.
I am not going to feed air back in from the garage as I expect the air inside the box to be pre-heater by the heat of the heater itself so I don’t need to put 2 holes through the wall. I will have the fuel tank in the box as I don’t have a convenient shed nearby and my box will be lockable so no worries about kids/scroats playing/stealing the fuel.
I was going to put insulation inside the box to reduce the noise but do you find that an issue?
I was going to route the exhaust up once it leaves the box so the fumes are away from head height but again, do you find this to be an issue?
Anything you would change or improve based on your experience over the last year or so?
Hi, thanks for your interest. The plastic tubing and fittings I used for the hot air supply into my workshop were supplied with the purchased kit. I don't believe that there are any problems with the plastic - yes it gets hot, but I'm guessing that it is a thermosetting plastic not a simple thermoplastic. The mouldings and tube seem rock solid even when running flat-out. I certainly wouldn't just use some guttering or something - it DOES need to be temperature stable (a quick test with a heat gun should confirm whther it softens or not).
If you read many of the comments, there are lots of people who think that taking the air from inside the box rather than the outside, is a bad idea. It may be warmer air (hence more 'efficient') but the potential for exhaust-gas contamination in your workshop, is possible. The silencer has a small 'drain hole' and perhaps, in the future, one of the exhaust joints may fail or work loose. This would then pump the exhaust gases straight into the workshop - not good. To be fair, I ran my set-up exactly as shown in this video, for a long while, and did not have any hint of exhaust contamination. If you look at the accompanying Instructable (www.instructables.com/Chinese-Diesel-Heater-Workshop-Install/) you will see that I have now piped the fresh air destined for my workshop, from the OUTSIDE by adding a short section of pipe (look at the end of the last 'step' of the Instructable for a photo).
Another reason NOT to take the fresh air from inside the box would relate to the inevitable smell of diesel which you would get, if you put the fuel tank in the box as well. It seems to be impossible to fill a diesel tank without getting some drips - even a single drip would smell!
Being outside my workshop, I'm not worried about the noise at all. It IS noisy, but the noise doesn't travel through my single-brick wall to any extent which bothers me. I guess you could make the box from a more-insulating sheet-material, but I don't think it would be a good idea to permit the inside of the box to get hot - the body of the heater is plastic, and it definitely sounds like a bad idea, if you have a fuel tank inside the box!
I don't find the exhaust fumes to be noticable outside, but the unit is not really where I tend to go! There is NO smoke from the exhaust at all and the unit seems to burn really efficiently. (I believe that continual running at minimum temperature might allow it to 'coke up'. The recommendation is to run it flat-out every so-often to burn off any possible soot.)
I believe that it is bad practice to have any form of 'u bend' in this type of exhaust pipe - you get a build-up of water in the lowest part which is probably going to corrode the stainless steel (??) - hence the 'drip hole' in the silencer, and if rain got in, you could seal up the exhaust? Also, I seem to remember that in some installations (eg a wood-burner) a long exhaust pipe can be a bad idea - you really don't want the exhaust gases to cool and form some nasty, acidic liquid.
If you look at the comments and the Instructable, you will see that using a power supply without a battery (as I do) may not be a good idea. If the mains power fails while the unit is running, there is no way for the residual heat to be removed (the fan will not be running) and the suggestion is that the unit may melt! I can live with this risk - we never have power cuts (famous last words if we get 'load shedding' in the UK) and I only run the unit when I am in the workshop (so the unit may be destroyed, but it won't burn the building down!). If you EVER have power cuts, take this warning seriously!
Finally, I'm really happy with the installation, it does a great job - there's nothing else I would change (except the price of diesel!)
Best wishes
@@KuTee Thanks for such a detailed reply so quickly. I am UK based too BTW. I shall modify my design plans based on your feedback. Proper thermoplastic for the tube into the garage (not enough supplied with my kit) - TICK. The 'box' sectioned internally to store the fuel tank away from the heater in an easy clean section to reduce smells from spills and contamination of air into the garage - TICK. Air intake feed from outside the box to prevent cross contamination - TICK. Insulate the box around the heater for sound but not heat if possible (eggbox style sound baffles?) - TICK. Don't extend the exhaust pipes unnecessarily - TICK. My heater will be on the side of the garage where the noise / fumes might disturb other people in our garden which is why I am trying to minimise those issues. I might fit a vertical pipe, open top and bottom, to the side of the garage and vent the standard exhaust into that. The big pipe would be sheltered by the garage roof overhang from things falling into it and the hot exhaust would naturally exit at the top while any nasty stuff would just fall out the bottom and none of this would touch the exhaust or heater. Thanks again for your inputs.
@@classiccarclips3292 All sounds great - remember, one installation doesn't make me an expert, but everything you suggest sounds sensible - the open-ended exhaust guide should be good!
Best of luck - somehow, on the Instructable, you can post a photograph of your finished installation - one person has done that, and it's really interesting - just an idea!
What do you thing? It îs gut Biodiesel from this instalation? Super video!
Hi
I believe these heaters will run from a wide range of fuels (many are the same fuel with different names); diesel, kerosene, paraffin, heating oil, biodiesel, etc. They will NOT run from petrol / gasoline.
The CZcams video below, shows a guy running and starting the heater with a mix of 50% vegetable oil and 50% diesel. (He did try it with 100% vegetable oil but it failed to start - stating that it's flash point was too low).
czcams.com/video/-bmELZaH6zQ/video.html
Many thanks for your interest.
Hello Quentin, I have read/seen (JohnMck47) that these mufflers are not gas tight because they are spot weldeed. In this way your fresh air intake might put some CO into your building. He measured very little CO at the muffler but that was during efficient burning. When fuel is not burned completely into CO and H2O there could be a problem. But overall, I am going to copy your set up, muffler outside and exhaust paste at the connections inside the box. Am I allowed to copy? Do you agree? Greetings from the Netherlands.
Yep. I have not detected any contamination, but since the video was made, I have connected the main 70mm heater air intake to the hole in the side of the box, so there is no possibility of any exhaust gases from inside the box getting into the air destined for the workshop. Several people have been worried about this contamination possibility!
Thanks for your comment
very tidy, looks like you have made provision for an inlet from the workshop ...... If you opened that hole then sealed and insulated the box from outside air you would gain a lot more heat. The exhaust would need to be sealed up really well of course....