I love love love the look of a moots and many others, but I'm pretty sure other builders can build a comparable product for $1,000 or even $2,000 less and you'd never know the difference in a double blind test. And nor would a testing rig record substantially different results.
I used to work at a bike shop and a customer had a Moots. We got to take it to the back for his regular maintenance. but man those bike are a piece of art. They're not heavy but cold like aluminum it's really strange.
The only thing I like about this video is that there are still skilled people who build things in the US. Its just too bad that the end cost is so damn high. Boutique bikes are cool but the wait time and cost prohibit people from getting one. This desensitizes people from the joy of biking. At the same time, even bikes like the Santa Cruz are now made in Taiwan and yet you still pay a premium.
Please note we are delivering our bikes to customers on average in 4 weeks and in some cases, even faster. These are hand built products with an incredible level of quality and we believe this is an investment you'll always treasure.
@@brentwhittington1184 Moots prices their bikes as though their Ti is far superior to the rest of the world.... the labor cost is not that much more to produce the frames. Moots is just a boutique company that is great at using marketing to sell people on a dream
It's very impressive of your work shop. Could I know the type of titanium materials and tube? type of alloy and type of tube. Is it seamless tube? or welded tube??
Guoenyi hey there, guy from 2 years ago. In case you still wondering. Aluminium is the lighter (less dense) material, however it is also less sturdy. Therefore, More aluminum (thicker tubes) is needed to make a bike frame, than it is with Titanium. Therefore, a Ti bike is about 5-20% lighter than a comparable aluminum frame, while the Ti frame is also a lot more compliant.
Not only that, but the quality control of metal tubes to carbon monocoque frames is not even close. To this very day, the inside of carbon monocoque frames look quite bad. Resin pooling, voids, and delamination spots are the norm. I love that carbon can be shaped to tune aero qualities and comfort, but there are 3 main downsides: 1. Impact resistance is not great. Crashes, whacks from dropping the bike or things dropping on the frame, stones hitting it, etc. can cause damage quite easily. 2. Abrasive resistance is practically nonexistent. Only the toughest resins designed for breaking surfaces address this on aero carbon wheels. But the frame can be critically scratched. Cable rubbing, shoe rub, and laying down a bike in gravel will eat away the frame quite quickly. Carbon racing wheels for cars might employ different protective measures that bike frames simply don't have. 3. Quality control. Who knows what's in the inside. Often, it's not good. Over-engineering is used to cover for layup abnormalities. Carbon is strong and light and reduces vibration, but I like carbon fiber for large applications that can cover for it's lack of toughness. i.e. aircraft wings, drive shafts, large tubes, etc.
Steel, but all depends on the alloy composition. Steel is the softest, but if angles are steep in seat tube combined with stiff carbon fork, then it's all the same. Benefit of titanium over aluminum or carbon is aluminum fatigues over time (long time, but typically the cheapest) and carbon can be awesome built in custom ride quality and does not take well to rock chip or falls and can end up a cracked frame. Best part about titanium bikes is durability and retained value. For example, my 2001 litespeed tuscany frame sold on ebay for 900 bucks this year, and I paid same price for it 4 years ago. It was a very comfortable ride, but as I got stronger, I wanted something stiffer.
I have 2014 Specialized AWOL steel frame and love it. uber comfortable with a Brooks saddle and can ride all day. I've ridden a few Moots and Black Sheep and see the appeal and would love to have one but for the price of just the frame I'll pass for now.
Titanium is the 9th most common element in the world. It's the blending it with aluminum and vanadium and working/welding it that makes it costly. If titanium could be shaped easily. Forget about it, only pros and sponsored riders would use carbon/fiber. Everyday riders would opt for a titanium aero frame that would last a lifetime. It could be tuned for comfort as well. The truth is that carbon monocoque frames are still quite bad internally in terms of quality control. Excess resin pooling, voids, and delamination are quite common.
It's dug out the same place everything else is dug out. It's mixed with the other ores and stuff and the what not. No there are no titanium mines. Well maybe, hell I don't know.
Im guessing Titanium Mtn Bike versions will be still be highly prone to the "audio squeaks & creaks and groans" of a metal frame in a couple of years? I don't enjoy workshop maintenance or paying for it. These sounds are highly annoying for those like me who rural cycle for Peace & Tranquility reasons also. SOLUTION = start saving for 2nd hand Carbon Fiber (squeak proof) model ?
Para mí el titanio ylos aceros niv Cro cromo alu milt y euroesp me gustan más que las fibras de carbón o grafito o grafeno los metales se me hacen más originales y no hablo por la resistencia de fibras y aceros oacero combencionales son más originales
I like the “master blaster” pump in the background. I have 10-12 of them on 6 different Ti bikes. One MOOTS
Moots is just an amazing group of cyclists who really care about the end product - it shows ! AMAZING rides !
Absolutely agree with the double pass welding 👍
A video like this is exactly why I subscribe to Bike Radar!
My dream is to buy a MOOTS, road trip to the factory and pick it up with a christening ride in the beautiful lands that surround it.
VERY nice plan! Hope you get to do it sometime :-)
I love love love the look of a moots and many others, but I'm pretty sure other builders can build a comparable product for $1,000 or even $2,000 less and you'd never know the difference in a double blind test. And nor would a testing rig record substantially different results.
Great look into Moots. Thanks for sharing.
I used to work at a bike shop and a customer had a Moots. We got to take it to the back for his regular maintenance. but man those bike are a piece of art. They're not heavy but cold like aluminum it's really strange.
They deliver to Mexico thanks 👍
I want Jon to read me stories when I'm going to sleep
Watching the RSL long term review has given me a lust for a titanium bike! Haven’t stopped thinking about them since 😍
made with love by real craftpeople to be riden and last forever, beautiful
Someday ! Such beautiful bikes
more old school bikes thank you
The only thing I like about this video is that there are still skilled people who build things in the US. Its just too bad that the end cost is so damn high. Boutique bikes are cool but the wait time and cost prohibit people from getting one. This desensitizes people from the joy of biking. At the same time, even bikes like the Santa Cruz are now made in Taiwan and yet you still pay a premium.
Please note we are delivering our bikes to customers on average in 4 weeks and in some cases, even faster. These are hand built products with an incredible level of quality and we believe this is an investment you'll always treasure.
Brent Whittington
I don't argue that. I still believe that you get what you pay for and these bikes are no exception. High end stuff.
cheaper than an SWORKS built by a 13 y/o boy on the other side of the planet....
@@brentwhittington1184 Moots prices their bikes as though their Ti is far superior to the rest of the world.... the labor cost is not that much more to produce the frames. Moots is just a boutique company that is great at using marketing to sell people on a dream
@@endebtedone Stonier and Mosaic are about the same price. You pay a lot for an American made bike that is made by small shops.
now that's a passion for bicycle building
God dammit... now I want to spend more money I don't have!
im getting the same feeling! ^^
hahaha
Good job bossqua 👍👍👍👍👍👍
I had a dyna tech torus years ago , always wanted another ti bike and regretted not keeping hold of that one.
I can set up my own shop, for the cost of one bike..
Thanks for inspiring me.
The dislikes come from people who just realized they wasted their money on carbon fiber
no moots are overpriced
Wow they are moots.com/bike/farwell/
$7900 plus shipping I am sure.
It's very impressive of your work shop. Could I know the type of titanium materials and tube? type of alloy and type of tube. Is it seamless tube? or welded tube??
Can't get those welds with plastic bikes......... Damn nice!
thanksfordoingwhatyoudo...
Beautiful looking bikes
I would love to own a US made cross bike.
Moots ybb and lauf fork?
How does Ti bike compared to Alu bike in terms of weight.
Guoenyi hey there, guy from 2 years ago. In case you still wondering. Aluminium is the lighter (less dense) material, however it is also less sturdy. Therefore, More aluminum (thicker tubes) is needed to make a bike frame, than it is with Titanium. Therefore, a Ti bike is about 5-20% lighter than a comparable aluminum frame, while the Ti frame is also a lot more compliant.
I would always prefer metal over Carbon, doesn't matter Aluminium or Titanium. They are just stronger against impacts and crashes
CZcams Comment Guy it is all just marketing saying carbon fiber is stronger. They don't test impact. They test load
Not only that, but the quality control of metal tubes to carbon monocoque frames is not even close.
To this very day, the inside of carbon monocoque frames look quite bad. Resin pooling, voids, and delamination spots are the norm.
I love that carbon can be shaped to tune aero qualities and comfort, but there are 3 main downsides:
1. Impact resistance is not great. Crashes, whacks from dropping the bike or things dropping on the frame, stones hitting it, etc. can cause damage quite easily.
2. Abrasive resistance is practically nonexistent. Only the toughest resins designed for breaking surfaces address this on aero carbon wheels. But the frame can be critically scratched. Cable rubbing, shoe rub, and laying down a bike in gravel will eat away the frame quite quickly. Carbon racing wheels for cars might employ different protective measures that bike frames simply don't have.
3. Quality control. Who knows what's in the inside. Often, it's not good. Over-engineering is used to cover for layup abnormalities.
Carbon is strong and light and reduces vibration, but I like carbon fiber for large applications that can cover for it's lack of toughness. i.e. aircraft wings, drive shafts, large tubes, etc.
is titanium most comfortable material for gravel grinding or steel??
Steel, but all depends on the alloy composition. Steel is the softest, but if angles are steep in seat tube combined with stiff carbon fork, then it's all the same. Benefit of titanium over aluminum or carbon is aluminum fatigues over time (long time, but typically the cheapest) and carbon can be awesome built in custom ride quality and does not take well to rock chip or falls and can end up a cracked frame. Best part about titanium bikes is durability and retained value. For example, my 2001 litespeed tuscany frame sold on ebay for 900 bucks this year, and I paid same price for it 4 years ago. It was a very comfortable ride, but as I got stronger, I wanted something stiffer.
Oh boy. and you'll soon realize that carbon is sure stiff, but you'll always be thinking about that Ti frame.
I have 2014 Specialized AWOL steel frame and love it. uber comfortable with a Brooks saddle and can ride all day. I've ridden a few Moots and Black Sheep and see the appeal and would love to have one but for the price of just the frame I'll pass for now.
will you be also make fatbiike in the future??
the Frosthammer was their fat bike but they seem to have d/c'd it.
I wonder how there demand is going with all the modern advances is carbon fibre.
can i get a job there?
Where are their e-bikes?
Where exactly does USA dig out Titanium >?
Titanium is the 9th most common element in the world.
It's the blending it with aluminum and vanadium and working/welding it that makes it costly.
If titanium could be shaped easily. Forget about it, only pros and sponsored riders would use carbon/fiber. Everyday riders would opt for a titanium aero frame that would last a lifetime. It could be tuned for comfort as well.
The truth is that carbon monocoque frames are still quite bad internally in terms of quality control. Excess resin pooling, voids, and delamination are quite common.
It's dug out the same place everything else is dug out. It's mixed with the other ores and stuff and the what not. No there are no titanium mines. Well maybe, hell I don't know.
Why not laser cutting the Titanium? It will be quicker, more precise, less labor intensive, and eventually lower in cost.
you answered your own question... it would lower the cost.
Im guessing Titanium Mtn Bike versions will be still be highly prone to the "audio squeaks & creaks and groans" of a metal frame in a couple of years? I don't enjoy workshop maintenance or paying for it. These sounds are highly annoying for those like me who rural cycle for Peace & Tranquility reasons also. SOLUTION = start saving for 2nd hand Carbon Fiber (squeak proof) model ?
yeah but just wait until you get BB creak.
Learn to burn. Spitfire wheels.
Para mí el titanio ylos aceros niv Cro cromo alu milt y euroesp me gustan más que las fibras de carbón o grafito o grafeno los metales se me hacen más originales y no hablo por la resistencia de fibras y aceros oacero combencionales son más originales
Mr BikeRadar's seat is about 2" too low. Great advertisement for skillz. lads. Not.
Not supported i only buy China made products not USA.