The Old Gods and Evanuris {Theory - Spoilers All}
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- čas přidán 4. 07. 2024
- UPDATE: • UPDATE: Fall 2017 Roun...
Welcome, welcome! Do you wonder what the Old Gods are? Have you noticed the connection between them and the Evanuris? Do you just want to see badly animated puppets? Then come and listen to what is known~
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This video does contain story spoilers for the Dragon Age games and other related media.
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Who knew Solas and Cassandra were Canadian.
Eagen Vegham THAT'S why that looked familiar! Hahaha its been forever since I've seen it i had forgotten
I DIED WATCHING IT AHAHAHAHA
@@purplespeckledappleeater8738 Ayo 💀
British has the best english accent. *I Am German so my own opinion.*
Oh I love the talk between Solas and Cassandra as animated here. Hahaha.
I knooooow right?? Catie always makes such awesome videos
I'm not sick of the elven lore and history by any means, but I am curious about how the creation of the Veil affected the other races. Has there ever been a mention of that?
we see other races becoming more powerful after the creation of the veil. Maybe because the Elves were so powerful and all others were merely inferior beings. Creating the veil stopped their magical powers, cut off maybe from the Fade?
Dwarves were probably disconnected from the Titans cause of this, but that also allowed them to have free will of their own instead of being a hivemind.
Humans had civilisations on other continents, and with the veil they probably crumbled for the same reasons as Elvhenan did, and a lot of people became nomadic, hence some humans migrated to Thedas as a result.
@@therealnoodles7638 you can't say whether humans wer more or less powerful before the veil, because they lived elsewhere back then, not in Thedas, same for the Cossith
The way you edited the convo at 4:35 had me in tears thank you
So far my idea is:
The Evanuris are the Old Gods...but the Archdemons may not quite be Old Gods. Kind of.
In the time before the Veil, the Evanuris were flesh and spirit, there was no difference then. Magic was part of the world, like air and earth. Able to change flesh with the same facility as a spirit can change appearance, they reserved the most powerful of shapes for themselves. Not because only they COULD become dragons, but because a dragon was the ultimate form flesh could take.
During their long history, they discovered the Titans, the pillars of the earth, and observed the strange relationship they had with their 'children.' The creatures who would one day be called dwarves. The Titans were foci of will...collecting the minds of thousands, and becoming somehow individual in the process. The 'dwarves' both comprised the Titans, and were the utter slaves of the Titans. Mythal found this abhorrant. Other Evanuris were...intrigued. Could they learn how this happened? Could they do something similar, only with all the ehlven? Maybe all life itself?
Two Evanuris, Mythal and Solas, were so repulsed and outraged by this that they each acted to try to stop it. Mythal confronted them directly...and was destroyed (to the extent she could be) for it. Solas instead destroyed the world, to stop it from being enslaved. He tore spirit and flesh apart, sealing the minds of the Evanuris in what became The Fade. Their bodies, still in the form of all-but immortal dragons, entered hibernation in their hiding places.
The sealed Evanuris eventually reached dreaming minds of mages, and taught them secrets of magic to gain their trust. They taught the humans how to make a society that was modeled on the Evanuris' own...dominated by magic, powered by slaves, obsessed with power. When the humans were ready, the 'Old Ones' taught them how to breach the Veil...hoping that they could at last return to their physical forms, to the physical world, and resume the work they had begun.
It sort of worked...but not the way they'd hoped. The Evanuris' version of the Titan's power...the power to bind minds to themselves, to enforce a kind of 'hive mind' with themselves as the centers...became known as The Blight. Like the Titans, it is carried in the blood (Lyrium for Titans, regular old blood for the Blight). Those who fall under the Blight's influence are driven to find the dragons...find the bodies of the Evanuris...but the MINDS of the Evanuris aren't what they used to be, it seems. Perhaps the Blight has a negative effect on them as well...turning those plotting spirits into rampaging beasts. Or perhaps the mind of the Evanuris degrades as it has to pass through the Blighted...by the time it's passed to the sleeping dragon, there's little left of it. The new Archdemon awakens, desiring only blood and conquest, immediately taking control of the horde via the Blight and forcing them to march with it.
This is why Solas is so horrified at the thought of the Grey Wardens finding the sleeping Old Gods and slaughtering them. They're his fellows. He wanted to stop them, but murdering them in their sleep is still a terrible act in his eyes. And the sorry state that the Evanuris are in is basically his fault...he can be seen to be feeling that guilt keenly in many of his lines of dialogue. It may also be why Solas has decided to destroy the Veil. Many of the Evanuris are gone. The remaining ones may or may not still be sane. Regardless, the threat they posed before is to some extent gone. The Blight still rages, is still dangerous, but bringing the realms of flesh and spirit together again may actually give him the power to clean it up once and for all...as long as the Evanuris aren't still around to try it again.
They're not, right? Riiiiiiiiiiight? :)
Max Salmon yes!! There are too many similarities between the Blight and Titans for it to be coincidence
All i know is the Evanuris weren't even the good guys. Solas said they were seen as Gods because they won the war. The victors write the history. Solas and Mythal were the middle guys, not taking sides but just want peace and prosperity for their people. But the Evanuris were power hungry and the forgotten ones weren't much better so he sealed them for the world, after killing Mythal because she stood against them. Maybe both factions were in a race to find the secrets of the Titans to use it for their own agenda. But sealing them also removed elven immortality and much of their powers. I think Mythal also influenced Andraste through Flemmeth. It was said that Andraste was with an elven warrior (might be solas) And it was said that Solas did help his people fight against slavery, after the fall of Arlathan. The next game is gonna be so big and full of lore
Nice theory. Mine has got something similar but the difference is in fact the old gods was different things but elven gods used their name for influencing humans like you said. I believed old gods are in fact powerful unique spirits who helps elfs to build their sociaty. They are unique because they were unique concepts like freedom night wise... And they can have phisical forms their favorite were dragons . They were well connected with elven gods who learn their concepts. But because they were neutral they do not serve elven kingdom but teaching other races. Evanurius defamed them us forgetten ones(not forbitten ones). But like solas said a true a true god not need to prove nothing. The war between evanurius against titans made them gods but killing with violence a titans make they blood infected. So mythal was killed, solas asked their help one of them did not help because he was not sure about. Solas tricked the evanurius and with helping his friends created the veil but solas felt asleep and his friends most of their power and so their could not come back in fade neither helping elf kingdom. But because I do not believe the evanurius playing to cards for 1000 years; they re created their power with steeling the names of old god and recreated a new society in their control. After they were after the true old gods using their minions and use red lyrim to them for punish and control them for broking the veil. But from spirit they became demons and last of one,who stayed in fade, put them in deep roads for not killing them but also protected the world. So when solas wake up he find out not just ruin the world but also his dearest friends.
This has to be right....
Coming at you hot off the two-years-late press, but I wanted to offer something that might fill in, or act as some mortar:
My interpretation of hints both big and small has led me to a conclusion that's, on a macro scale, very similar to yours .
However, I've always leaned towards the Old Gods/Archdemons being emanations of and/or aspects of the solid identities of the Evanuris. These might be "slipped into" wholly, or deployed as a tangential agent with some smattering of the original intelligence.
This is akin to possession and likely involved experimentation that utilised spirits to empirically test "what happens when mind that's seperate is made to join the antithetical physical, and can we reverse engineer???"...which potentially led to the Blight and maybe has been inadvertently replicated in a certain Grim Anatomy. I DIGRESS
(Ugh, and I've I also just realized that the Old God's/Forgotten Ones may also be separate beings that were failed experiments. The Evanuris expediently inserted them into their mythology as something that's been ever present and lurking, rather than the horrid pile of spaghetti thrown at the wall that they are. I DIGRESS
The Evanuris somehow found a way to separate mind from body in some capacity. This was a wretched abuse in the eyes of Solas and Mythal, etc and Solas eventually seals the Evanuris in the Black City, saudering it with Lyrium in an attempt to bar/obfuscate the connection to their sole remaining ties to the physical realm, the draconian Archdemons. (Which could tie into how red lyrium was made and why it seems to be creeping into Solas' motif)
Heck, red lyrium could even be based on something as vile as the Evanuris throwing spirits at their prison bars. Whether a consequence of deliberation or arrogant desperation, it was an abuse that further solidified Solas' irrational preference for spirits; he feels responsible for their deformation. I DIGRESS AGAIN!)
This theory explains why the Archdemon's have something resembling intelligence, but it's flailing and incomprehensive.
Furthermore, this lends credence to the theory of Sera being somehow tied to Andruil; in it's knells, a piece of flailing and incomprehensive soul latched onto whatever it could, in hopes of returning to it's source.
I feel like Elves have always served a decently large part in every story. I can’t wait until 4 or after where we can get some focus on the Qunari outside of “Qun bad”
But in inquisition solas says "Nothing in any lore connects my people to the Old God dragons who became Archdemons." ? I never saw solas as a liar. He just seems to omit the truth.
That is most certainly true. But consider this, Solas may be too proud to aknowledge that he does not know the truth. Solas' name translates to Pride and I'm pretty sure that his pride will be his undoing.
Nothing in any lore connects them. Even if they ARE connected, this would not be a lie. No lore connects them, but to confuse legend with history is also something Solas warns about.
TheWhiteWolf this just blew my mind.
@@ComanderScar wow
@@ComanderScar I believe he said "any KNOWN lore". He's not lying, just holding back information.
I always wondered if the old gods were the forgotten ones of elfish legend but not the evanuris themselves. The veil could have separated them. The forgotten ones in the void forever (underground? The abyss?) and the evanuris in the fade. Idk. Not a theory I've worked through much
I understand people being tired of the elves, but personally, I think it's kind of fitting. Like how the gods of ancient polytheistic religions(For example, Greek, Egyptian, and Roman) tend to have many of the same gods, just with different names and variants on personalities to make them fit the era and culture in question. It's not such a far-fetched theory that the ancient Tevinter Imperium saw the Evanuris, or some aspect of them, and twisted it to better fit their own beliefs. Humans have been doing that for ages beyond counting, after all. And considering that the ancient Tevinters enslaved the elves and effectively destroyed what they had(Well, them and Solas both), and the near apocalypse that was the First Blight, it makes sense that modern Tevinter wouldn't remember.
Personally, though, I prefer the old gods being dragons. Or at least represented by dragons. If the Old Gods did actually talk to their high priests, it's also possible that they might have even been spirits who were shaped by the beliefs of ancient Tevinter. If they didn't speak in recognizable words, then maybe the priests had powers similar to Avexis from Dawn of the Seeker, and they could speak to the dragons that way. We never did get an explanation for her powers, and the only thing we got after that is her showing up Tranquil in Haven.
I like the background but we have gotten so much of them and the humans in the series thus far.
And such little in comparison on the dwarves and kossith (Qunari). There is so much they could do but I feel like they defaulted to the easy
The Old Gods are The Forgotten Ones Solas sealed in the abyss. The Abyss in this case is underground, where all 7 Old Gods are located. In Inquisitions it's revealed that the "good" elven gods, were mages who amassed so much power they were seen and remembered as gods. Mythal and other evanuris were depicted as dragons and could turn into them. The Elven pantheon minus Fen'Harel and Mythal is 7 gods, it's possible the Forgotten Ones pantheon also consisted of 7 beings, who are now the Old Gods.
I bet the black city is the prison of the Evanuris, and the Evanuris are the ones who created the blight in the first place.
I love this theory so much--
BUT LET ME TALK ABOUT THAT TALKING ANIMATION AHAHHAHAHAAHAHA IMDEAD XDDDDD
Also, what if the "Old Gods" stealing the Divine Form they never earned is what ACTUALLY created the Blight (which might be why the Old Gods directed THEIR high priests to do something similar, thus unleashing the Blight which "completes" the Old Gods)
idk how anybody could get tired of the elves in DA. And this is a very biased opinion as I am a really big fan of DA every since DAI so if somebody dont agree dont take it personally. I do believe that the elves in DA are the best out of all the fantasy worlds that I know of(I am no expert in all that is fantasy but I am a fan of such worlds as Lotr and Witcher) . They have such rich lore and background and their stories and mystyries are so very compleling and intriguing. On a seprate note I did not really believe this theory but after watching this video I do think it has some merit and would make complete sense if the Old Gods were elven priests as it has been hinted at in some codex entries that elves do have or at least use to have some control over the forms that they could take. Prehaps after the veil was constructed they could not reform themselves into elves and remained dragons.
Dragon Age is a phenomenal fantasy universe, there's no other quite like it. It's kinda sad that the games suck so much ass. They really ought to put a little more effort to actually delivering proper gameplay. They should change their business model so that they'd use another fantasy setting to create the engine and the gameplay in a more action-focused game and THEN use that same engine to deliver on a proper Dragon Age. You know, they should make a real Hack&Slash with just bare-bones story elements, but with amazing gameplay, and then use the concepts learned from that to craft the Dragon Age game.
@@khatack dude no, it's too action-based already, Dragon Age is a RPG, not a Hack n' Slash, they flirted with it in Dragon Age 2 and it wasn't cool, Dragon Age Inquisition got the G spot for the franchise gameplay, with strategy and action, changing it would piss the majority of the fans
+Marcos Whatever e Silva
Reading Comprehension isn't one of your strong points, is it.
@@khatack guess you would need it dumbed down like you suggested. Fortunately the majority of people like this story based game that makes you think.
OK, the 'sick of elves' thing'. It seems like elves were always designed to be a pillar of the lore. An important one, but still just one. And if you're a fan of the world of Thedas, how can you be sick of elves when we still mostly don't know about them? Nobody so far has been forced to play en elf, side with modern elves, or even take an interest in ancient elves. But you can't extract them from Thedosian history and expect the world to hold up, because they're a part of it. And every other race/civilization has shaped the world to an extent. Who the most 'important' players are changes over time. But all of it builds on what came before.
There's a lot of lore in DA. A lot of it doesn't focus on elves. But if what you want is for elven 'influence' to be neatly confined to its own corner of the mythos, sorry. Because you can't separate the peoples and nations of Thedas from each other like that. They don't exist in tidy, separate timelines. History is empires bickering, going to war, invading each other, influencing or dominating each other physically and culturally. In Mass Effect, humanity was significantly impacted by the Protheans, a civilisation that didn't exist anymore. In the first two DA games, it seemed like humans and human empires were the primary shapers of Thedas' history. And they were in fact that - in recent times. Also we felt the long reach of ancient Tevinter influence in all three games. The lore was stuffed full of things about the old Imperium. So now we see that Tevinter may have been influenced by the ancient elves. Isn't that how history works? I don't have a particular love for elves. I found them sympathetic but not especially interesting until DAI. But they're a part of the world and the history.
To say that elves 'had their hands in everything' makes it sound like they had no business existing in the world and having any effect on it, like they should have been sealed in their own corner of the world doing their own elfy things so that people who don't like elves could pretend they're not there. How dare they have empires? How dare their influence reach down through the ages, like Tevinter's? If you don't like elves, fine. If you resent their place in the lore, or want to claim that suddenly 'elf things are everywhere', when the storytelling focus has really only started to shift to them in DAI/Trespasser, then just you're being kinda silly.
Mate, are you inside my head? You just stated my thoughts on this topic perfectly (and far more eloquently than I would have!)
I really didnt know there are people thinking "too much elven now"
I’ll be the first to admit that I was never fond of the elves. I find them boring, uninteresting and to cryptic to enjoy within the DA also their names are, well annoying AF. To much Love Craftian like no thx. It’s only DAI end of the game found them, well thanks to Solas bit more interesting. All thou I’m not into the idea them being gods and all that shit thou, honestly If it was up to me, I’d prefer a focus back on the darkspawn and their origin. That shit way cooler and more enjoyable. However the resent darkspawn bin. Disappointing and laughable.
lol Solas and Cassandra
I swear, I had this idea only a few days ago during my yearly replay of the series, and went digging to see if anyone else approached the theory too. I'm so glad to have found this video!
This is an awesome theory. Mine was similar but this one makes a few leaps I'm not sure I would have made on my own. As far as people being tired of elves history being 'the' history of the world... I get it, but at the same time humans haven't been around very long comparatively (at least from the point of view of the history we've read so far). I imagine we'll get some interesting stories / leads about other races while running around Tevinter... not to mention hearing from 'those Ones from across the sea' XD. If anything it looks like the only part of Thedas we've explored thus far is the ancient grounds of Elven civilization. The other continent(s) may be the origin of man.
Well we actually know some lore of the titans and dwarves now, the "song" that lyrium sings could be related to elves-dwarves as well. Mythal "So long as the music plays, we dance". If you kill Leliana in DAO we also discover she has a lyrium body, manipulated by the titans. If I come out with another theory you will hear it from Ghil Dirthalen, her voice is so beautiful!!
Mine was also similar. Instead of High Priests, I theorized the Old Gods could have been sort of the equivalent to the Guardian of Mythal, but for each elven god. And by freeing them (and inevitably leading to their deaths), a seal is slowly weakened. Would explain why Solas was so upset at the Grey Warden's plans. If all Old Gods are killed before the time is right, the Evanuris would be freed. It could also explain some inconsistencies, like differing spheres of influence between the two pantheons and the fact that there's a different ratio of male and female ones in both pantheons (High Dragons are all female, yes, but the Old Gods are different. Some are depicted as male while others as female)
That note at the end of people being tired of the Elves is true enough for me. My Warden was an Elf, but she was also a Mage, so not connected to the Dalish. Behind the scenes, she was inspired by and later became a backstory for a LotR RP character who only comes to Thedas just after the First Blight, ends up with City Elves... and well my point is my formative viewpoint of Dragon Age was that of a character with no connection to the Dalish, even if she's Elvhen.
The Old Gods and Evanuris was the best part of DAI so thank you so much for putting this up.
Someone told me this theory was basically proven wrong, though I can't remember what evidence they gave to support that claim
So I essentially listen to this like a podcast while doing homework as background noise (I go back to watch it fully don't worry I love lore) and MAN was I surprised when I saw THAT at 4:34
Damn... everytime I try and learn some lore, there's 10 other pieces of lore I end up looking up just to understand the first thing I looked up... so many rabbit holes. It's endless, it seems. How the hell do they make such a massive game world.. for any game like this full of lore. It blows my mind. So much lore.
Why are the Elves pretty much a part of everyone? They are the first intelligent specie(that we know of) to have started a civilization. To the point that the most strongest of them became “gods”. True, I am a little tired of Elves being a part of everything but it does kinda make since.
I have a hypothesis that Solas is the Maker, even according to Chantry text about the Maker. The Maker had created the veil to keep the old gods in. Before the humans of Thedas worshiped the Maker that had originally worshiped the old Gold. And in the Maker's fury he locked the old gods into the fade which would become to be known as the original sin. The second sin was breaking into the fade.
I love those shots of the Well
i think that the dragons that became the archdemons are not completely the evanuris... they're their bodies.
while their souls are trapped inside the black city their bodies are trapped on the depths prisons.
even more, solas did this on purpose, making the bodies of the evanuris the seals that keep their essenses trapped inside the black city, that's why he is so pissed at the grey wardens (killing all archdemons will unleash the evanuris), if you see the trailer for da4 you will see that around the lyrium idol there is a circle with 7 seals with only two remaining to be oppened (only two blights left).
i think that the last dragon age will have the new tevinter hero trying to find the last to archdemon prisons before solas
The theory that I am sticking with until such point that it is refuted in-game is that the Blight was created by the Evanuris, possibly Andruil as the story says. The Black City is Arlathan itself, banished to the Fade in its physical form by Fen'Harel along with the rest of the Evanuris. The Black City would be the origin of the Taint that spread to the Sidereal from the moment they stepped into the Fade. The Old Gods are said to be spirits that take the forms of dragons, but what if they are merely vessels, and the spirits themselves are the Evanuris whispering secrets of blood magic to the magisters of Tevinter from beyond the Veil? The story of Flemeth states that she spoke to a demon or spirit of the Fade that gave her terrible power, which we now know to have been Mythal. I would go so far as to say that the Imperium itself, from the time that they destroyed the elven civilization to the Seven crossing into the Fade were nothing more than the pawns of the Evanuris, that they may spread the Blight into the physical realm and return to their vessels which were lost within the Deep Roads. The implication with this is that at least four of the Evanuris have been destroyed by the Grey Wardens by absorbing and obliterating the souls of the archdemons through the Taint. It also implies that, depending on player choices, one of the souls of the Evanuris survived through the birth of Kieran and was freed from the Blight. Which is supported by the Dark Ritual being an invention of Flemeth/Mythal and passed to Morrigan.
aaaaaaaaaand urthemiel is "the god of beauty". I think urthemiel is SYLAISE
My take is that the "Old Gods" of the Tevinter are the banished Evanuris. The dragon bodies are the mortal forms left behind after there souls/minds (?) are banished by Solas/Fen'Harel. Giant Elven civil war type thing going on after Mythal is killed I know I'd want to stay in my powerful dragon body and we know they can take dragon form because Flemeth. Super powerful elven godlike beings trapped would need to first figure out if they could pierce the veil somehow and second coerce someone on the end with blood magic to do it because it seems that is the most effective way and there isn't blood in the Fade. Sure it took centuries of pretending to be "Gods" of the Tevinter and speaking to key powerful mages but when you're an immortal spirit time is meh. The blight thing is harder for me to connect unless they realized after the magisters got to the city in the Fade that they couldn't inhabit their bodies. Lots of stuff here from me but great videos, and I'm happy to have stumbled upon them even if it is a few years late :P
So I may be wrong, but I remember reading something about how the ability to transform into a Dragon is supposed to be reserved for the Elven Gods/Goddesses and their High Priests/Preistesses. IF Morrigan drank from the Well of Sorrows she makes a comment about being a high priestess of Mythal because of the power of the well, and this is how she gains the power to become a Dragon in the final battle against Corypheus...but this bags a question...if the Inquisitor is a Mage and THEY drink from the Well of Sorrows instead, they would also be made into a High Priest/Preistess of Mythal due to the power of the Well so does that mean that a Mage Inquisitor that drank from the Well of Sorrows could eventually gain the same ability?
Love this theory and in some ways it makes a lot of sense. I've read a few theories that are very similar to this one and more than one of them mention that the fall of the elves was largely due to Solas locking away the gods and then shortly after that tevinter took over with their old gods. Or at least it was something along those lines, point is all of it coincides. Could just be coincidence or it's just plain wrong since I haven't really done a lot of reading on it.
So, NGL, I've watched a bunch of your vids and prior to that, I was digging through the Dragon Age wikia and writing fanfic. This has been a most Dragon Age-y sort of day (as are so-freaking-many, of late). But this vid? Kinda blew what was left of my mind. I think I need to lay down. With a cold compress and some Jack Daniels'. . . .
She takes the form of a dragon, she doesn't become one. To truely become a dragon, you wpuld not only have the blood, and intelligence of a dragon, but wouldn't be able to transform back. Morrigan herself talks further on this. Plus, a real bear (yes I tested this out) and a player the same level as the bear that turn into one and fights without the character helping, the real bear would beat it. So the real deal beats the one in the form of it. Sort of like a draw back or condition keeping the mages from staying permanently in the form and abusing it.
YES! I've thought of this so much but thought I was crazy!!!! No one can change my mind now thanks.
I wonder if the Evanurs are not the old gods priest's but rather that they are the old gods themselves. with that in mind I feel it's easy to find evidence to this.
Also my one thing I like is that solas was the old god that was struck from record for his betrayal old stories say that *fen hurrel* was trusted and a member of the even gods, stories that have always had a source in reality.
Just an idea I want our there you know
Addition to my idea if they are trapped in the earth and sleeping then they may be in the fade possibly at the center of it and that they were manipulating the magisters in a hope that they would free them from there golden prison.
In fact would an even god ,who lived before the separation even know that there was a difference
Hmmm I'm liking this more and more
@@aaronkwise nice theory, I would like to add that they are all dreamers, and if they drink great dragon blood, they become god like, and given elven mages are the strongest kind of mage without their ageless bodies, and dreamer powers, with the qun being the only possible rivals, and humans being the weakest of them all.
I personal don’t care if elves are everywhere, but I’m fearful it’ll reenforce humans racism against elves.
Do you think that when Dragon age 4 comes around or in future Dragon Ages they will talk more about the last two Old Gods? Plus, the eighth star constellation that could be a supposed eighth Old God would be explained?
Vivienne also mentions something to the inquisitor if Morrigan is the one to drink from the well of sorrows, about tomes within the circle archives that contain spells to hold shapechangers in their changed forms. Perhaps this is similar magic that affected the slumbering old gods?
While people may be tired of everything connected to the elves they are so far the only race with a known ancient empire, we don't know of any other pre-veil races at the moment
I came to much the same conclusion on my own. We'll have to wait and see.
Uh yeah we need more party banter like this hahaha
Something that I’ve considered that sort of piggybacks on a portion of the theory mentioned, is that, if Andruil was the source of the blight that which we know of in this current Age, then it would only make that the Evanuris trapped within, were also blighted over time if not instantly.
That would make sense why the number of Evanuris (excluding Mythals extrication due to murder) matches the number of Old Gods.
The Old Gods are the same Evanuris
who have been blighted and are attempting to re-emerge from the Fade/Black City.
Doesn’t every Archdemon create a calling which causes all Darkspawn and Gray Wardens to heed to the call? Don’t they do this in order to manipulate them into bringing their archdemon masters to this world/plane?
One by one the archdemons we kill are actually the Old Gods/Evanuris.
Who’s to say that the The Evanuris weren’t also in direct contact with a completely different land? They were so powerful in magic that they resided in the fade, Spoke through magic without necessarily having to physically interact with their followers. I believe that’s how the Tevinters describe their interaction with the Old Gods, I don’t think any one of them actually “physically” met them.
Side Piece :: I know Mythal is literally depicted as a dragon of some form in Elven mythology and architecture, and it’s been proven that herself can turn into a dragon, being a shapeshifter.
Is it possible that shapeshifting can be labeled in degrees of mastery?
Maybe the reason why the old gods were revered as dragons is because that may be how they presented themselves, being shapeshifters or through visions.
Let's assume that old gods= great dragons somehow connected to the evanuris.
Ok, well 7 old gods/great dragons and 7 elven gods.
What about solas and mythal?
Well, as what we have learned from the books, there are 2 other great dragons, one killed and one still sleeping somewhere else. What if the 8th constellation is missing from historical record not because it was stricken from record but rather, it is new. A result of the latest great dragons death (which was likely that connected to mythal)
Now what about the last great dragon? Only Alistair can wake it, but what if he is dead? How will the play waker it? mythal/yavvana were able to awake the last Great dragon because they were connected to it. The only other person connected to the last great dragon is solas, as it is the great dragon connected to fen'harel.
And perhaps this is why he hasn't torn down the veil, because he needs the power of his dragon and so he has set off to go find it.
I know I’m late to this but have been recently playing the game and I have an idea that isn’t quite finished but the tl:dr is that we are looking at it backwards and the old gods were spirits/dragons including Solas.
Mythal was of the elves and new gods and they were new arrivals.
Solas could shape shift and walk between the two groups.
He is similar to Cole but very very old.
The blight and the abyss are old.
When the sun burned everything the earth had created the gods threw the trash away in the abyss which was a void created by the earths sorrow.
So the blight had been buried in the deep roads all along.
I need to work on this and find a better way to contact you even though these games are oldish.
The astrarium puzzle in the video kinda looks like the Mythal tattoo, the one that looks like a tree.
This just blew my mind, really f*ing good, and I hope the writers don't go like "we can't have elves be a pert of everything, even being the old human gods", because this is just incredible, it shows how much knowledge can be lost to history.
I love this theory.
thanks Im 1Martín Zanabria Chavez by the way haha
"Those who aspire to greatness, no more" could mean that the "Old Gods" were merely powerful magi who stole the secrets of Divine Transformation?
yes, my theory as well - that evanuris themselves are old gods. if you could connect abilities of old gods and the evanuris, it would even make sense who is who
I've pretty much thought since trespasser that solas tells a truth (relsted to whsyever the topic at hsnd would be) to cover up or evoid telling THE truth if that makes sense?
Speaking of everything going back to elves, I think that the qunari (kossith) were elves who were infused with dragon blood as some kind of magical experiment. They both have the pointed ears. Iron Bull mentions that his people think they have a kinship to dragons. And Corypheus says to a qunari Inquisitor "Your race is not a race. It is a mistake."
If Qunari are elves with dragon blood and Dwarves somehow coimng from titans. What about Humans ? It said that Humans are not native to Thedas so from where they came from ? Why does human genes are stronger then rest of Thedas Races (every hybrid offspring looks more like a human then other race especially Half-elves who are really phisically humans). Are humans some kind of evolutionary step for all races ?
@@darthportus I weirdly believe humans appeared when the veil was created. They came to be as a race/species from primates or other strange background. Truly the children of the world, this new world with its new natural order (spirit and flesh divided). As the "why" half-breed looks more human is probably tied with this connection to the state of the world.
Basically the same ways Elves were shaped by their world natural laws, so too the humans are by this new one.
The dwarves were never connected to the fade, being extension of Titans, and thus unaffected by the veil. Enduring, like mountains, unmoving.
Kossith are probably a Tevinter pet project. Merging elves, slaves, with dragon blood. Afterwards, with the Qun and its breeding aspect could probably explain how they delay their transformation to humans.
i like your videos, i just started watching it lately and they're awesome
I like this theory but somehow i just got a feeling that the Old Gods, Evanuris, and gods of the avvar are one and the same. Just a feeling though.
I wonder what humans do in this time, do they exist? or came much later? i never heard any humans involvement in any of the elven lore in DAI, maybe they already exist then? so much question, i got a lot to catch up. thanks for the video it really answer some questions i had.
btw, you sounds like scout Harding or Dagna, or are you maybe both? lol
there are some mentions in game and lore of ancient elves running into humans, who they (the elves) believed to spread the "quickening" (basically causing elves to age)
But that was the arrival of human on thedas right? which causing the legend that it was the arrival of humans that begins the elves to age instead of the veil
"their form may be one or many". Sounds like the blight to me.
Wouldn't them being in Uthenera make it easier to talk to the magisters rather than make it impossible? Since the old gods communicated to the magisters through dreams.
What song is playing towards the of the video?
i think the old gods are something else and not arch demons. I think the old gods are locked away somewhere and are only able to use a little bit of their power until they are free. and what they use have an effect on arch demos making them more then dragons. But i think noone has ever beaten 1 before and people just assume the arch demons are the old gods because they have so much power.
Gosh! Does that mean that my mage Hawke will never learn how to turn into a Dragon? 😂
Don't get the hate for the elven gods. They are by far the most interesting piece of history in my eyes at least. Sure i want to know more about Tevinter and Qunari, but those knit well into a state of world and learning by living. Nothing in terms of history is more fascinating imo
Aren’t the old gods just very powerful spirts who take the form of dragons?
or maybe they are the evanuris who can transform into dragons? Remember flemeth transforming into a dragon? And flemeth is mythal
A bit of a random thing here regarding Corypheus' dragon. Corypheus was active during the First Blight and encountered the newly formed Grey Wardens. The Wardens tried to kill him but realized they couldn't so opted to imprison him. However, with the revelation that Corypheus became effectively immortal because of his Blighted/Red Lyrium Dragon, does this mean that he had the same Dragon all the way back to the First Blight? If so, where has it been all this time? Why only records of the Archdemon Dumat and not a second corrupted dragon? (though I suppose this second one could simply be Warden secrecy).
I suppose it's not that big of a revelation, but upon playing Inquisition for the first time, I assumed Corypheus had awoken and THEN corrupted a High Dragon in the modern time. Not that this was an ancient dragon. But I suppose this now means this same dragon was in some sort of slumber or hiding since the First Blight. Only now has it clicked in my head it must have actually been ancient.
You were right when you first played. The game strongly implies that the dragon was corrupted by Corypheus after he awoke and escaped in Legacy. Corypheus always had that ability to resurrect, but before Inquisition started he decided to share that power with a dragon he found, captured, and corrupted. That way, the dragon would be able to resurrect as well. He also sent his armies to try and find other dragons for him to corrupt in the same way. The problem that Corypheus didn't see (or perhaps he did see it but underestimated its threat level) is that by sharing his power with the dragon in created a weakness in the resurrection ability.
Before, Corypheus could resurrect into (or even take control of) any tainted person or creature and at any range no matter how many times he was slain or how rapidly in succession. That's partly why the Wardens sealed him instead. However, after sharing this power with the dragon, the ability changed. Corypheus kept the same abilities as before, but if his dragon were to be slain first, then the magical energy would revert back to him until the dragon could resurrect in a different tainted body, and this would cause a cooldown period for the ability they both shared. Within that time frame Corypheus would not be able to resurrect if slain. That is the information that the Well of Sorrows imparted to the one who drank of it, and that is why the Inquisitor needed a dragon to match Corypheus'. So the dragon (or Morrigan as a dragon) kept the Red Lyrium Dragon busy until the Inquisitor had a chance to wear Corypheus down, then go after the dragon and slay it first. Then as we see, the red energy moves out of the dragon and up to Corypheus, where the cooldown period begins. The Inquisitor then has an undefined amount of time to slay Corypheus before the cooldown wears off.
Aaah, thanks for the info!
@@ComanderScar I believe he simply found the architect (depending on one's chooses) and learned how to create a more effective dragon thrall, but instead of the risk of it obeying the old gods like the architects (because it's implied that the architect is responsible for the creation of dragon thralls, for they had been considered extinct and yet a few survived somewhere and he probably took some eggs and turned them into dragon thralls) he either used: blood magic, necro magic, veil magic, or a combination of the 2, to bring back a dead dragon thrall that was free of the calling, and then corphy used red lyrium to age and shape the dragon thrall into a HIGH dragon thrall. That's my theory anyway. Given that both magistars where in ferelden at around the same time, it's possible they met up, and the architect helped corphy get his dragon. Also, no, his dragon is a amplifier to his resurrection. When it's around, he can resurrect almost instantly, instead of over time.
Omg i started dieing when cassandra starting talking 😂😂😂😂
What do you think about the order of the Grey Wardens, Ghil? It seems like with each game, the writers want us to see that Wardens aren't the heroes we thought they were in DAO. Obviously the order is heading in the wrong direction and there's even talk of a possible end to the Grey Wardens. Any thoughts?
The Grey Wardens were never heroes. What version of DA:O were you playing? In mine, Duncan conscripted my male human noble against his will and murdered Ser Jory. Did you meet Avernus and see the memories of Sophia Dryden? And did you hear the stories of Wardens burning down villages full of people just to prevent the darkspawn from ravaging them? The Wardens have always had that "we do what we must" mantra. It isn't until Awakening when our Hero takes command of the Ferelden Wardens that we get to possibly turn them into an order for good. Though there were some moments in Origins when we could possibly do that as well.
Perhaps it's just me, but I never saw the Grey wardens as 100% heroes in DAO. At first I did, but then Duncan just ran his sword thought Jory... I'd also argue that the wardens we see in DAO is just... us? We don't really see much of the actual order until Riordan shows up, and he doesn't really do much other than let us know we will probably all die, then die himself. And the Wardens you see in the Warden's Keep DLC broke their rules of interfering in Politics, which endangered the order as a whole, and then there's the blood magic and the human tests...
So I guess what I'm trying to say, I don't think the writers are ret-conning anything. I just think that people are attached to THEIR warden, and bringing them into a negative light can make it feel like Bioware is shitting on their beloved warden. I feel like it would be similar if Bioware started have negative stories involving the Amell/Hawke family or if the Inquisition turns out to be antagonistic in the next game.
The general perception of Wardens in the DA universe is that they are heroes and that it's an honor to join them. But most people don't know their inner workings or their actions throughout history. Even after the events of Inquisition, Orlais still sees the Wardens as heroes. So while the people of Thedas (and Orzammar) see them as Heroes, the players have inside information. I don't think BioWare has really changed this way of presenting them.
they are like any other organization, when they become too big, they are prone to corruption. Solas said it is already happening to the Inquisition.
I reckon The Black City is Arlathan and Solas yeeted the whole city into The Fade with The Evanuris. I also reckon Arlathan was built from a dead Titan and the Titan itself became blighted somehow hence it turned from Golden to Black. Only problem is if The Black City is Arlathan then where are The Evanuris?
I have theory. I think the old gods were powerful spiritis, born to begging and the opposition of titans who taught to elven society. The elf gods were their pupils and leaning a lot from them, the old gods because were spirits didn't care about fame o fortune and leaving elf society when it was enough strong to handle itself. They went to looking new intelligence formed for teaching, while Solas has strong connection with them. Passing a lot years and elven gods became arrogant and "became" Gods and stole the identity from their teacher and made up of esistence of them saying they were the fongetten ones. Solas spoke about this with old gods but they didn't care. When elven started to kill titans and killed mythal(which I think was fight about powers, I don't trust mythal), titans are important for thedas equilibrium and when Solas called the old gods they decide to help, except for one who decide to stay in Fade.
Solas with help could beat elven gods and create the Fade:he fall in sleep but his friends lost most of their power and finished in phisical form like Cole. Because I don't think elven gods passed their time playing to wicked, they influence the new emper and they becoming "the old gods". Using war and suffer elven God made thin the veil and using their minions capture the old spirits and they use the blight with intention to let them broke the veil. The blight correct the spirits, and lost controll, and that point the 8th spirit put his brothers in earth, his brothers with a little moment of concern turned themselves in dragons for slowing the blight. So the first plan failed, and 8th spirit became the maker.
Passing other time and elven gods trick the magisters, using the bight on them, elven gods wanted to stole their body, and because the blight is a magic does not follew the rules of regular magic, so they don't need the consence. The plan went wrong, most of elfs and magisters died during the process, one fuse together and becoming a new begin the architect, core won on body and other one stole the body but the first blight begin.
The elf god who took the body is asheming so it created the grey warden and became the first warden, and like mythal pass to new guest when it is necessary. Mythal invented the dark ritual and Dumat is salve in Andraste, who get loved from maker who created a religion with point to defend the Fade, if you think about the malefican should not use his power agaist the children, children is general can be human or spirit.
Andraste got killed and 8th spirit/make is like fu** everything. He is the spirit of war, love and same time peace and indifference. Solas contact him during future game and together they wants to put down the veil, for this motivation we can see Solas with big wolf, he is not him but he is mentor.
So I wish in next game we have apostate who also a recaination of Old god, who is not going use /or betray us
Can we hear any theories on titans? With dragon age inquisition it was proven that titans really do live and exist. So on top of needing more dwarven history in my life I find myself wonder how exactly the titans play in since it seems the elves truly did have their hands in just about everything. And wondering if Volta will show up in DA4? I mean that was a pretty huge cliff hanger of an expansion if that truly just means squat to the series.
Seeing as how The Descent was an optional adventure, we probably won't see Valta again. Unless BioWare stops being lazy and starts accounting for player choice again.
Solas said that there was nothing in any known lore that connects the Evanuris to the old gods/arch demons.
I wonder if you could make a fallow up to this video
Actually... wasnt qunari some mix between elfs and dragons? As i recall Corephyus sais so in the final battle if the inquisitor is qunari
P.s. i know its old video
Sodding pointy eared tree-hugers, meddling and messing up everything with their frail, soft skinned hands...
Agh, all this elven stuff makes my head hurt... and hundry! Where's that nug roast I ordered?! And bring me that ale already!... Sodding stone lumps for feet, moving slower than a rock...
Talking to the void because odds are zero anyone will see this comment... But what if the inversion of the basis of this theory is instead the reality: The Evanuris were the High Priests (Chosen) of the Old Gods. In this perspective, the Evanuris, led by Elgar'nan rebelled against the Old Gods, which is a critical parallel to the Dalish tale about Elgar'nan wrestling and imprisoning his father, the sun.
I think there is evidence that in this case, it would also imply that the Old Gods are the Forgotten Ones. Once the Evanuris rose to their full power, they struck all detailed records or memories of the Old Gods and merely left a message not to trust suspicious voices in your dreams (a codex mentions that elves know of the Forgotten Ones only what they hear from them in their dreams).
And you know who else made contact with some shady fellas in their dreams? Human mages who heard from Dumat while dreaming and went on to coincidentally worship the Old Gods.
Hmmmm
What if the old gods were trapped in dragon forms but were originally the high priests of the Evanuris and bc of this they tricked the Teventer magisters into the fade assuming maybe it would somehow release the Evanuris.
Yeah, but remember that demons are the ones who taught blood magic, which is connected to the void, which may be connected to the blight. Thus they could be demon friends of the elven gods that the imprisoned sent to help free them, and solas tricked and put them in prisons.
what would we do without you!
I've always personally been more inclined to thinking that the Old Gods were somehow related to the Forgotten Ones rather than the Evanuris. Granted, there are many ways in which this idea can be debunked and it is far more based on things we don't know than things we do. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on any of these accounts.
As far as I'm aware we have no concrete number of how many Forgotten Ones there were, though we do know that there were at least three of them. And while, yes, it is at the least a fun coincidence that the presumed number of trapped Evanuris and the known number of Old Gods are exactly the same, it might simply be just that: coincidence. A parallel number between two sets of pantheons/two factions - because honestly, Fen'Harel doesn't really seem to count as either so it would theoretically be 8:7 ratio - that would constantly have been fighting seems pretty reasonable to me. Evening out the scales as much as possible, in a sense.
The fact that the two groups, Evanuris and Forgotten Ones, were said to be locked away in two distinctly different locations, the latter of which parallels the Old Gods being bellow even the Deep Roads, always struck me as odd. The coincidence of the Forgotten Ones being locked away in "the abyss" and the Old Gods deep bellow the ground was one of the big things that sparked this idea when I first sat down to think about it. The problem with this idea might be the matter of time, as I'm not completely sure on when exactly the necessary events happened in relation to each other, but the parallel is fun, at least.
Other than that, I also have a whole long rant on what I think the Dalish interpretation of their ancestral gods is based on from the real world, but it doesn't really tie into anything here, so I'll leave that be. Again, feel free to correct me on anything incorrect, I am more than willing to be educated on the matter.
tbh,, I'm tired of people being tired of elves :/
I am tired of people who say they are tired of people being tired of elves :(
@@darthportus ummm... i'm confused but me too, probably.
Ily 😍
Isn’t there also 7 Forgotten Ones?
3, and they are most probably leaders of the elven rebellions against the Evanuris, hiding in the Abyss (under the deep roads, the "uncharted abyss") with the help of the remaining Titans (victims of the great war that propelled the Evanuris to power with newly made weaponized Titan blood Lyrium, example are Foci).
The dread wolf was kin to them, probably a double agent, playing both sides until the murder of Mythal.
Interesting to note is that the Forgotten Ones were probably weaker than the members of the Evanuris, having decided to not participate in the genocide of Titans (my take here).
The Blight is probably simply a Titan gone bad, infecting it's children and ennemies, aka Andruil, "goddess" of the Hunt. The song of a Titan is probably the same thing as the Calling, only the second is perverted. The Blight might be a simple supernatural plague that had twisted the Song of a Titan.
There were 7 old gods, 6-males and 1-famels (Dumat, Zazikel, Toth, Andoral, Urhemiel, Luscan were males and Razikale was only famel) and there were 9 Evenuris, 5-males (god) and 4-famels (goddess). Mythal (goddess) was killed and Fen'harel ( god) imprisoned seven of them into the fade. It means Evanuris are not Old gods!!! Cause their genders are distanguish ( Trapped Evanuris are 4 males and 3 famels, but Old gods are 6 males and 1 famels)!!! I guess Old Gods are forgotten ones, nor Evanuris!!! Cause their genders and issues are unknown, and they trapped into the Void (what is the Void? Underground?) What about Maker's curse and imprisoning old gods into underground that chantry believes?!!! Do you think the old gods are Evanuris any more?
7 old gods,and 7 Evanuris, Discounting Mythal, who was slain long before humanity came to Thedas, and Solas, who was always considered an outsider by the Evanuris and did not claim Godhood (and who would also have no reason to whisper to followers to "free" him)
i do concede there is a gender misalignment, however I would posit that as the Evanuris are capable of shifting form, and Spirits themselves are genderless, perhaps they too can take on whatever physical appearance they wish. Perhaps their last or most common forms had simply been of that gender, but they are not bound to it? Or even further, perhaps the people of Tevinter, who would never see one of them in the flesh, simply didn't know and guessed?
and then there is also the fact that all high dragons are female, with sexual dimorphism leaving male dragons (Drakes) smaller and flightless. and yet the mostly male old gods are all High Dragons?
As someone who is also tired of seeing elves in every literal and theoretical shadow I can say I hope it's all elven gods after all. So that we may kill them
I wouldn't say I'm tired of elves, but I'm tired of elves always being the plot twist. I'm really disappointed that one of the big reveals of DAI/Trespasser is that the elven gods were evil rulers and the rest of the elves somehow forgot that and worshipped them as gods. I would have preferred it if the reveal was "the elven gods never existed but it's a nice story that gives the modern Dalish hope." They keep making elves out to be the secret bad guys, sorta, and "the humans who conquered aren't all that bad," and it's just frustrating, from a narrative perspective, and from a more concerning real-world perspective where the elves are partially inspired by Indigenous people in North America (see dalishious on Tumblr's excellent work on this subject), the Romani, and Jewish people. The ideas that "the elves are responsible for their own genocide" and "the elven gods are inherently evil" and "elves are better off under human leadership bc they were slaves to other elves".... yikes.
Consider slowing down at bit, christ. Apart from that, very informative. - (To the creator of this vid)
(This part is referring to people "tired of elves")
I will add this: history doesn't care if you are tired of the elves. We could ask them to explore smaller stories as an alternative.
But the gods of this world seem to revolve around them, just as humans appear to be the most prominent race in thedas.
Seems like a cheap way to dismiss stories you don't like.
I feel like I'm C.S Lewis shouting at Tolkien in the office: "Not another bloody Elf!"
I agree with the statement made at the end of the video: I am tired of the elves somehow being related to every single little thing of importance in this series. It almost makes me think that the elves are being given special treatment and that the other races aren't getting their fair-dues because the elves are apparently sooooo important.
The Old Gods are actually the one piece of lore that I am devoutly defending with everything I have so that the elves DON'T touch it. The whole number of Old Gods being the same as the Elven Gods (Minus Mythal and Solas) I dismiss as mere coincidence. The real evidence against this particular theory, is all revealed in "The Silent Grove" comic trilogy. In it, Yavanna hints at the world of Thedas before the veil was created, even before humans or elves ever existed, and dragons ruled it. Later, Sten (now the Arishok) explains that the Old Gods were not just mere dragons, and that they were: "Like unto dragons as the first kings were to ordinary men." And there are various codex entries authored by Brother Genitivi that the Old Gods could possibly be dragons of such calibre that the world has never seen their like since.
I personally like to think the Old Gods are dragons and perhaps very powerful ancient dragon-kings, but nothing related in any way to the elves. How they ended up imprisoned is something the series will have to explain later on. Perhaps they are the ultimate villains we will face down in the fifth and final game? Who knows. But for now, please fellow-fans and Bioware in particular - LEAVE THE DRAGONS ALONE!
Valid point and I agree but for a bit of a different reason.
Is not so much the elves I'm sick of but the Evanuris hear me out.
Elves had an expansive empire in Thedas before anyone so it make sense that some or most of the current cultures has at least something to do with them.
However the fact that everything seems to revolve (acording to parts of thefandom) around Solas and his enemies. While fun to discuss is terrible for world building. It makes the the lore smaller. With less complexity. Even if the stories themselves are good.
It's my main issue with the star wars films even the OG trilogy (and I'm a huge SW nerd). Is not that they are the focus but that EVERYTHING has to do with the Skywalkers & co. It makes the stakes more boring and less epic ( this is why I really hope that Rey is not blood related to any of the previous characters).
Bottom line while the stories can be fun bringing everything back to a single (or few) elements can make for a more boring setting.
I like the idea of the old gods being elves, simply because of the irony. A country that looks down upon elves worshipped them without knowing. But I'd still like for the other religions to stay away from anything similar. It would be too cheesy if everything was elven.
What if the Old Gods of Tevinter somehow became the Forgotten Ones?
(PS: I have no evidence for this lol just food for thought 😊)
I didnt know Solas and Cassandra were canadian
I disagree with this theory. The evanuris portrayed themselves as gods, so I doubt they were ever priests or priestesses of the old gods. Also, certain evanuris like Dirthamen, Andruil, Gil'annan, or June, didn't seem the priestly type. Accord to lore in the Temple of Mythal, Gil'annan was raised up to become an evanuris after agreeing to destroy all of her creations (though she spared some regardless). Even Falon'Din seemed like an upstart who was trying to usurp Elgar'nan. So they all seem more like a group of magisters.
The reverse doesn't appear to be true either, as the old gods seem to be more powerful than the evanuris. They can contact and speak to humans through the Veil. The evanuris can't even beat Solas' trap. The old gods also wield magical powers as dragons, whereas Morrigan can only shapeshift into a dragon and move like one. Granted, the powers of the old gods has mostly only been shown through the archdemon, but it still proves the old gods have magical knowledge and power. I think it's safe to assume that the old gods know how the eluvians work too. Urthemiel used one to taint Tamlen and the dalish elf, and if his soul is Dark Ritualed into Kieran, he uses his power again to leave Skyhold through Morrigan's eluvian.
Another point, Flemeth, who carries Mythal, sought out Urthemiel. So far, it seems like she, and Mythal by extension, are helping Urthemiel. Also, I think the old gods are more powerful than the evanuris. Mythal is either helping Urthemiel, or using him for something. In either case, this doesn't seem like a relationship between a master and a servant.
More likely, I think the high priests of the evanuris were simply trusted elvhen servants who proved themselves. Like Abelas. And as Abelas said, as each of them would reach the time when they would enter uthenera, they would pass their knowledge on through the Well of Sorrows.
Also, Solas said that the evanuris rose to power because of a war. A war between what? We don't know, but this war made the evanuris respected generals, then rulers, then "gods".
Solas also says the evanuris are banished, and paying the ultimate price for their misdeeds. Now, I know Solas lies, and also the things he says in Trespasser contradict each other as well as prior information, but I think this statement would imply that the evanuris are still alive. If the evanuris were the old gods, then five of them would already be dead.
As for if the old gods are servants of the evanuris, well, it's kind of hard to see how tricking magisters into traveling to the Golden City would serve their best interests. It doesn't drop the Veil, and in fact it puts the old gods in danger because the magisters were sent back with the taint, which they would then take to the old gods that betrayed them.
We also shouldn't forget that the war Solas mentioned might not have been between the evanuris and the old gods, or even each other (at first). It could have been between the evanuris and the Forgotten Ones, as Dalish lore suggests. That means there are essentially 11 evanuris, as the three Forgotten Ones are pretty much on their level.
So the old gods manipulated the magisters to do what? Not take down the Veil. I think if they had been connected to the evanuris, they would have whispered knowledge of the orb, not the Golden City.
So are the old gods in uthenera? I suppose you could call it that. But technically everyone enters uthenera when they dream. The point is that they can reach out to the magisters in their dreams and give them information. So it's more like dreamwalking, which the ancient magisters could do as well. Didn't make them gods. So the only options left are: the old gods really believed getting their priests into the throne room would grant them the power to destroy their prisons, or they knew the magisters would be corrupted and transform the Golden City into the Black City. Why? I think perhaps it has to do with the Maker locking them up. It was revenge. They might not have known it would corrupt the city, but the old gods wanted to defile the Maker's city. That backfired on them. Now there are only two (maybe three) left.
As for a possible 8th old god, I doubt it. BioWare puts in useless info all the time. I think the best example of this is the ending to DA2 where Leliana lies about the Hero's case and the Champion's case might be related, knowing full well they weren't. Another thing is the spirit that rises out of the Well of Sorrows. She is clearly human, based on the rounded ears, but the devs said she was supposed to represent an elf spirit. They thought they could just use a generic human woman model and get away with it because the water filter would distort her image enough so we wouldn't be able to tell what she was exactly.
Morrigan calling herself a high priest means nothing. She's just reading what the elvhen left behind for their successors. Sounds like a standard invocation. Besides, all religions have high priests, or some equivalent. The Chantry, the Avvar, even the Qunari have the Ariqun and Tamassrans.
It's possible that the evanuris first began as grand dragon (old god) worshipers, but I doubt they stayed that way. At some point it seems they tried to make a name for themselves. Perhaps the old gods were the first spirits created, and they shaped the ideas of the spirits until eventually the evanuris arose from among those spirits.
Like I wrote, breaching the Golden City has nothing to do with the veil, other than the fact that the magisters had to cross it in order to get into the Fade. But lots of blood magic and lyrium doesn't tear the veil down, it just opens a portal. And if one of them wanted out, why not instruct the magisters to open the portal near Dumat.
And Dumat is another point. Even the old gods seem to have a pecking order, with Dumat being their leader.
About the claim that the taint existed during the time of Elvhenan, I think that assumption is almost completely baseless, and I don't think Andruil's madness proves anything. Andruil was probably driven to madness by the Void, which is where the Forgotten Ones are said to dwell. I doubt the Forgotten Ones are tainted. It seems to me like Andruil was tricked by the Forgotten Ones into hunting them in the Void, where they know how to survive but Andruil did not, and the Void slowly drove her mad. The armor she made could have slowed it down, similar to how the Joining slows down the Grey Warden corruption, but I think Andruil's symptoms don't match the taint. She was screaming about perverse things, that the evanuris didn't want people to know about. Those who are corrupted typically just snarl, and while still capable of speech just talk gibberish as their mind goes. Like that dying soldier in the Wending Wood, or the journal of that templar who started taking red lyrium.
More likely, Andruil's armor was similar to that of the Sha'Brytol, and the Void could have been the black darkness part of the Fade. It's possible Andruil even went to near where the titans are and the armor was to protect her from the lyrium, which has also been known to cause madness.
But I wrote above that the claim of the taint existing before Elvhenan was ALMOST completely baseless. The mural in the Vir'Dirthara shows what looks to be the Black City in the center and at that top of the painting. Does this depict the taint? It might. Or that might be a depiction of Elgar'nan, as he is described as a shadowy mass with many bright orange eyes (I think in the same codex in which Mythal leaves the criminal to Elgar'nan to decide his fate).
And yet, the city was known to be golden at some point. I also believe the magisters found it golden, but turned it black. So I don't see how the mural could be depicting the taint, unless it was painted after the magisters broke into the Golden City.
Solas speculates that Corypheus' dragon is bound to him. I think this is more a reference to the magical bond and the sharing of resurrection. I don't think there's anything here about any bond between an evanuris and a dragon.
Plus, not all of them have dragons as pets anyway. According to lore, Gil'annan had the Halla. Dirthamen had ravens or crows or whatever, and also the bear. I think one said Andruil entrusted secrets to the owl, and I think the owl was also used as an omen for Falon'Din.
I think the Evanuris weren't gods, they were very powerful elven mages that use the orb which is where they get their powers from. The orb in DA Inquisition is Solas', he wanted to unlock its power so he can open the veil but it didn't work. His plans failed. Do you think the Blight is like a cleansing act by the Maker? or some powerful being/beings? Old Gods? There are missing dragon age lore and history. We don't know
I’m sorry who is sick of the elves? Really? That’s a thing?
The Dalish will realize their gods were mages. So entitled Dalish are gonna get shut up.
My theory is: The Archdemons are the Elven pantheons physical bodies. The taint/blight is a vallaslin on a chaotic scale, corrupting, connecting, and mind-controlling all to the Old God/Elven Gods spirit in the Black City(Arlathan). Lyrium is the Titans blood, and Red lyrium is the result of the Evanuris trying to subjugate a Titan.
So... Anyone else just waiting for the Chantry to find out that Solas, an elven deity, is the Maker? I mean, I can't be the only one who sees that.
what??? I thought the Maker and Evanius gods are two different group! Oh, no!
I fard so much
I think this is a solid theory. A little more than a theory. The Maker, the Golden City/Black City, The Old Gods, The Evanuris, the darkspawn, are ALL connected to a singular event. The game really really hints at it. Why else would solas have helped Corypheus before betraying him. There are many valid context clues to this theory. I’m sure I’m not the only one who’s played all three of the games lately and arrived at the same general conclusion
The old gods are dragons. dragons cannot be priests. I mean, come on. Instead- they are Evanuris. Or at least their dragon avatars. Because we know Mythal is a dragon. Why not all of them.
I just saw this video but I was viewing the old gods as they ARE the elven gods as it is said the old gods domain is or was the fade, and that the blight might be something that spawned from the rotting corpse of the Titan Mythal slew
I got sick of the elves the moment I met the first Dalish Elf back in Origins.
Elf Haters!
didnt really want theories... Just wanna know about the old gods >:(
I thought the theory was that the Old gods are the Evanuris. Not sure why you keep referring to them independently. Seven Old gods, 7 evanuris after Mythal and Solas. Locked away, and when the darkspawn reache the Old gods, it drives them crazy and they (the dragons, which the only the Evanuris were allowed) unleash the blight. So your narration is confusing, if you are saying they are one in the same.