Narcissists, Eternal Victims, Trauma, Psychosis: Splitting the Inner Dialog
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- čas přidán 1. 01. 2021
- New study, “The Tendency for Interpersonal Victimhood: The Personality Construct and its Consequences”:
www.psypost.org/2020/12/resea...
All narcissists are collapsed and suffer from the Impostor Syndrome
Problem of attribution: many internal objects used to be external. Confusion leads to narcissism or to psychosis.
The Typology of inner objects corresponds to Jungian archetypes:
Self as the authentic voice (in attribution)
Jung: "The shadow, the wise old man, the child, the mother ... and her counterpart, the maiden, and lastly the anima in man and the animus in woman".
Persecutor
Sage
Infant
Mother
Gender
Sex (vulnerability, life)
Death (Thanatos) imbues all of them
Narcissist collapsed state is outcome of such disruption in inner dialog: sadistic perfectionist inner critic superego sets him up for failure posing unattainable unrealistic goals.
In adversity and crisis, the narcissist becomes psychotic (Kernberg): he misperceives this voice (persecutory object) as external (projects it) and feels victimized.
We project inner dialog whenever we are triggered to revividness (i.e., an external object INITIATES direct communication with internal object). PTSD is a form of psychosis (hence flashbacks).
We introject inner dialog whenever we are traumatized (i.e., internal INITIATES communication with an external object), which is why trauma leads to narcissism (CPTSD/BPD).
Solution: Splitting.
Splitting leads to dissociation:
Depersonalization, derealization (where the splitting prevents the construction of a healthy inner dialogue): we are all bad and "killed" symbolically); OR
amnesia (we are all good and environment "killed" symbolically).
Addictions provide such dissociated splitting in neurotypicals.
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This took me a long time to identify, unpack and heal from. As a child I learnt this pattern from a narcissistic mother and abusive father, then grew up and I myself ended up in abusive relationships. I finally understood it all started and finished with who I was being. I inherited that victim paradigm. It took a LOT of work to completely unpack that and have a paradigm shift & then create a life I love. Thank you for sharing your knowledge Prof!!!
Does the old pattern come back at times? Or have you been able to remove it fully?
@@North-lp8eo no, it doesn’t come back; but as mentioned, I had done a lot of work to become really conscious of my own dysfunction and there are layers to it; so no sooner do you identify and integrate one, then you see the next and the next. We as humans are a constant work in optimizing ourselves to become better and better as a human being, Well one hopes, rather than getting stuck, which I feel narcissists are. For me it started with looking at who my parents were, their traits and qualities, both good and bad, then where I personally exhibit those and in what scenarios. So becoming conscious of these was critical. Then as you become more conscious of them and see the patterns, catching and reflecting on how YOU can do better and then retraining, repatterning your own behaviour as that is what you have control over. Only that. Including your reactions and thoughts about others.
This is true, I became paranoid, bitter and resentful towards my family after suffering from narcissistic abuse. I continued to carry these emotions out into the world attracting negative people into my life; developing more anger and self hatred. I even developed OCD due to the obsessive ruminating of the past. I had to realise that yes” I have been abused, but so have many others it’s imperative to heal, let go and move on.
Thank you Mr Vaknin
X
Have you tried to go to therapy ? At first I went there because of panic attacks, and as the work progressed (Im seeing my therapist once per week) I realized I had a lot of anger inside of me as well, for various reasons, my mom criticizing me anx being mean since my early childhood for instance, and this was actually causing the whole thing ! And by talking, the anger gets released, you start feeling better, and start accepting being vulnerable and happy again
I highly suggest you to do it ! Sending lots of strength and light 💫
@@littlelily4 Thank you so much, I have started to go to therapy... I will continue with the self work and try my best to heal. Sending love
“The song ,we are the world…”
“That’s a psychotic song… “😂 literally laughed out loud!!! 😂
Love your sense of humor!
Dr Vaknin,
I watch your videos for knowledge about Narcissists, but today the PTSD really caught my attention.
I experienced severe PTSD due to a work injury that burned half of my face.
After my face healed,
I quickly sought out counseling because I had lost my emotions. I had to look for facial and voice cues in order to interact with the correct emotional response. I had a hard time responding to text messages as well. My responses became very robotic.
I described my experience as what I thought autism might be like...but I never attributed it to what being a narcissist might be like.
Ironically, it was the PTSD that became the means to finally get a Narcissist to stop the ongoing post discard hoovering.
I guess it's no fun for a Narcissist when they mirror their true self: an empty shell.
I view myself as being 90% recovered, always saving that 10% for the unknown.
However, having PTSD was a very strange and disturbing experience. Once I realized I had lost my emotions, "fear" was the first to make it's appearance. I'm not sure if it's the same fear that a narcissist lives with...but it's very terrifying.
Thank you for the eye opener and giving me a better understanding of what my PTSD experience was, although this video wasn't meant for that.
I do enjoy a good epiphany.
Thanks again!
Sam, I can not thank you enough for the last few videos you have produced. I have lived with (in myself) the disrupted inner dialogue you speak of. Knowing now of the Narcisstic traits within my father and codependency within my mother and being a product myself of that type environment. This will be a great life experience going forward with your knowledge and information you have shared. Thank You.
I've been listening to a lot of your video's.
Your analyses are really the best around.
Learned a lot, thank you so much for your work.
What more can I say 🤗
Yup, the ex was a victim of his emotionless father, was a victim of his low performing birth family, was a victim of his bosses, was a victim of others even if HE was the boss… and finally, abandoned me after he gaslit me to everyone who would listen. The damage was immense.
I remember some of these dynamics from when I was a kid. I finally can explain & understand them. Thank you Prof. Vaknin. This is one of your best best videos!
I wonder if this victim-to-narcissist pipeline couldn't also be applied at the national level: post-WWI Germany and post-WWII Israel. National mythologies so firmly rooted in an external victimization that they become collectively narcissistic, paranoid; convinced that others are out to discredit them and quick to label any criticism as racist/antisemitic etc.
Very good observation friend, i do believe this is exactly what happens. The "evil energy" passes to victim, who becomes new perpetrator.
If i had not seen it in my own life i would have a hard time comprehending theses theories. The most narcissistic person i met in my life claimed to be an empath, claimed to hear voices (Which could pass as introjects) and mourned their lack of identity. This all just fits so perfectly in the framework established here.
Just brilliant. I noticed long ago that even sexual abuse trauma is internal. The same act that would be considered abuse by person b will not traumatize person a if they assign a different belief to it. Along the same lines, a person can be convinced that they were a victim later on even though they didn't immediately adopt a victimized point of view.
This would explain a lot of my Fathers odd behaviours in a different way to "He's evil." as he's a Narcissist and when he assaulted me he went around the family with so many statements that weren't true, like me laughing at him (I never did this) or I acted cocky or disrespectful and I never got an actual example, ever, it was just these statements of his way of explaining why his abuse was righteous. He believes these so strongly that for years I would ruminate over it trying to think of examples of how I was like this and would even put meaning to certain things like, not wanting to go on a family walk with them as a reason.
Listening to this and a few other videos, it certainly opens things up a bit. Perhaps these were just his inner thoughts projecting onto others, perhaps he doesn't know himself what examples of what I've done but had diluded himself so hard to protect himself, as, if he can't think of an example he's admitting to assaulting his Son for no reason...and I was very much like him for a long time so he would be admitting to attacking himself...then again he would only get angry if I was myself.
Splitting...when there is an inner constuct of vindictiveness and projective abusive patterns in your mind. You will always be in trouble as an individual. An inner construct is a permanent state of being. Narcissists are on loop continual loop and will repeat the same destructive behaviour over and over again. The sandcastle is never good enough. Perfect is out of reach to these creatures. Therefor the perfect person will only be an eternal snapshot that will be destroyed eventually. Nothing is ever good enough for them and therefor we will always fail in their eyes.
Wow. I think I'll need to re- listen to this one a few times.
I feel like I grew up a narcissist home and as a first born child now young adult I worry that I am a narcissist, I know being a victim can only last so long.
Seems like there are crossovers between the eternal victims and victims of NPA who are just finding out they have been abused for a very long time and are just finding out you have beem abused by one for a very long time.
Ive been a victim by two brothers, one covert and one malignant narcissist. I noticed my reactions to the abuse at the critical stages which I am.still in have given me a few of their traits. It's horrible feeling to be scared you could be a narcisstic person just because you have a few traits you habe learned as an actual victim.
It's fascinating (the while video, but especially to me) how trauma comes into being. Could you give one example on how an internal object starts a dialogue with an external event, appropriates it and thus trauma is created?
Example: a mother introject and other internal objects are shocked and call you a "whore" for having had casual sex with a total stranger while drunk senseless. The whole incident becomes traumatic owing to these voices.
Dr. Vaknin, I have watched this a second time now and have received a even more understanding. I am curious of your perspective of Alfred Adler which I recently became aware of through reading “ Courage to be Disliked “ which is somewhat a summery of his work through a dialogue story of a teacher to student per-say.
Thank You for your work!.
Much neglected genius. I mention his work in today's video.
It was a very enlightening and enjoyable reading I received much learning from.
Nothing of me is original. I am the combined effort of everyone I've ever known.
i can relate
I heard you say in another video that the narcissist has no ego. So does the narcissist have a super ego and if so what causes the ego conflicts with the superego if there is no ego?
I have always wondered how some people are able to 'switch off' an internal dialogue - think of nothing - during Buddhist meditations. I cannot do that. That's why I prefer philosophical meditations or walking meditations. How does it feel when you 'turn off' your inner dialogue? Anyone?
No little people in the radio, television, or phone.
I know one 'victim' who has very often relationships or friendships with menatlly unstablle people. These people are/were under treatment. 'Victim' tells her difficult stories and even sometimes admits that they were helpful. In my opinion the secret of such relationschep is fact that these unstable people have higher financial or social status. I do not trust this 'victim' and the situation is tiring for me.
This is very very true for me
You become what you hate
the more i watch your videos the less i know what or who i am, am i the victim of narcissistic abuse or just a covert narcissist? am i traumatized by my narcissistic mother after years of exposure or am i just a grandiose narcissist who collapsed? so confusing...
@@simjam1980 thank you :(
The narcissist turns you into a narcissist.
Can you have psychotic issues just from being around true narcs?
If you have BPD or certain other mental health issues, you can react to narcissistic abuse with psychotic microepisodes.
@@samvaknin what should I do if I see narc traits in myself? Just work on them, try to overcome them, be less selfish? I know my father had a lot of issues and was/is a narcissist, now that im older Im seeing things in myself that I saw in him growing up and Im deeply concerned...if I will ever be able to have a real relationship or truly excel at a good job someday...
@@samvaknin i have to say, your info on narcissism is so precise, and I think youre doing a lot of good exposing truth. Im not saying i was ever a fulblown narc, but I can say a lot of your material and the way you break things down helps me to clear up my own bs...i was raised around a lot of narcissism and how could I not have some myself...thank you for what youre doing.
@@samvaknin "shared psychosis"?
@@philu4621 Narcissism is a spectrum. Heal your childhood trauma, and you'll have less need to maintain narcissitic traits. Learn to grow and be open to growth - I think lack of accountability is the biggest issue as many narcs don't grow.
Dr Vaknin, I’m somewhat off topic here so please forgive me. Do covert narcissists have a tendency to shape their offspring into the overt narcissist they once wanted to be, living their ideal life through an object that was partially created by them? My ex wishes to shape our son by living his grandiose ideals/dreams through him without genuinely showing him love, using him instead to brag about how great a father he is to others. Very insightful video. Thank you.
Inverted coverts do samvak.tripod.com/faq22.html
@@samvaknin Thank you! Already, just reading that for 5 seconds I see elements of him (he was jealous of the attention I was giving our son when he was newborn). Thanks for sharing the link.
Professor Vaknin,
I am writing my first comment in 15 years to let you know: the meaning "horror show" doesnt do justice to the things you reveal about myself and others around me.
No horror movie/novel comes even close to the profound agony of the narcissistic experience.
Q: to what extent is the condition diagnosable? I recognize myself to be a covert narcissist going through mortification, how can I be sure?
Thank you for your work on the matter.
Hello Dr Vaknin, My ex narcissistic partner would intermittently tell me that I would not understand what was going in his head, he would tell me it was a horrible place to be.
Why did he feel he could tell me this?
No one can understand him: he is too complicated and unique. Grandiosity.
Thank you
Additionally, I think he wanted you to feel bad for him, because "nobody has to suffer as much as he does".
@@titanenwurz-uwutopia Yes you are right, as Dr Vaknin said grandiose
@@titanenwurz-uwutopia well maybe he does suffer a lot
After 30 years, I divorced in Feb. The ex narc is reconnected to a previous girlfriend. Yet, he's still sabotaging me, my car in particular. We haven't spoken at all since June at a birthday party, where I barely said hello. I thought when he reconnected to another person he'd forget me. Is there anyway I can get him to really go away? He admitted to cutting my pool liner last year, which I've paid to repair. I can't afford his desire to effect me. Help, please.
@@di3486 I've been completely no contact since court, other than our grandsons birthday party. Frankly, I went 20 minutes late, to avoid being near him for so long a time. But he's sneaking onto my property to mess up my vehicle. Now my car won't start. My son said I have missing fuses but it seems my fuel was tampered with. So, it's not face to face meeting. It's him managing to be shady.
@@vickie6662 Move away and drop all contact with anyone he knows.
@@wap9137 I wish. We have 2 kids and 2 grands together. I can't disregard them bc of his dumb self.
@@shawnmarie1912 mo money. But yeah, looks essential at this point. 😢
@@vickie6662 If they continue to provide him information about you you can
@Sam Vaknin Dear Sir,thank you for this amazing exposition and insight into the human mind and human behaviour. I once had a discussion with someone about suicide where I opted that people who commit suicide or have suicidal thoughts are actually extremely egotistical focusing only on their own negative emotions/feelings and totally disregarding how friends or family would feel about loosing them.or having to live without them.Would it be safe to say that people who commit suicide are narcissists or at least have committed suicide because of a narcissistic minset?
No, it wouldn't: narcissists rarely commit suicide and narcissism and selfishness are not the same thing: narcissism is a mental illness samvak.tripod.com/suicide.html
@@samvaknin Thank you very much Sir for your answer and for the link provided have a good day Sir.
@@paraguayaenalaska730 Hello thank you for your reply (gracias,your spanish I guess?) I do understand that sadly some people are suicidal or actually commit suicide because of trauma or other causes. It's a very sad problem. And I realize these people need most of all our prayers but also our support and help to find a way out of their situation. That was the reason I asked Mr Vacnin this question. I wanted to see how I/we could shine a light on this subject in order to prevent people from ending their lives or find a way out other then suicide. I know from personal experience (a fried who is a mom told me)that by focusing on others (for example their children ) they can live meaningful lives. Again my personal opinion is that what I've heard/read from different people's testimonies is that the mental opression,hurt,loneliness and hopelesness is actually demonic opression. I have heard testimonies of being who have been prayed for no longer had these negative mortal hopeless thoughts Praise the Lord.
I was in the relationship with my ex for 6.5 years. She withdrew sex for 6 years, promising to have kids and family. We then bought house for her mum, then for her sisters. 6months after the break up, she hoovered me. 6 weeks after the hoovering, she bought a new house, married and got pregnant with her new boyfriend.
What is the root of all this messy behavior? If she is family orientated, why would she need a new supply while she already got everything from the last relationship?
I would be so appreciated if you can help me to answer this.
You did not have any relationship with her. You were her sugar daddy ATM.
What? What was wrong with you,
What is it about the 1 out of 10 that they couldn't be like the 7 out of 10? They were born that way?
Watch my vids about the genetics of narcissism and cluster B.
Sam Vaknin for president !!!
Maybe because they are the victims. Society has a tendency to target and bully certain people - gang mentality.
Narcissists are bullied too.