Another part of a video series from Wordonfire.org. Bishop Barron will be commenting on subjects from modern day culture. For more visit www.wordonfire.org.
how beautiful! It is so great to see a talk that has good scholarship and also show a relationship with God- and wonderment! Thank you, Father! Yet another one of your videos is going straight to my facebook page.
@pisumalu And as I have told you a dozen times, you are defending (quite strongly) your own version of the Great Story. And as I also told you over and again, essential to the Great Story of Christianity is the non-violence of the cross. So I will resist your self-righteousness and keep proclaiming Jesus as the Lord!
@badpanda84 That's why those passages have to be interpreted carefully. The Bible also speaks of God's anger, but that shouldn't be read as a passing snit into which God falls. It is his passion to set things right. God is "jealous" precisely because he doesn't want us going down the self-destructive path of worshipping false gods.
@caffingdu How could the one who made absolutely everything other than himself possibly be jealous?! Whatever being exists outside of God is the gift of God. And friend, I agree with you: there have been lots of bad Christians over the centuries. But bad Christians don't equate to bad Christianity.
Hi Bishop Barron!! I searched and i searched and I haven’t seen any lectures that explain Adam and Eve as created in Gods image with respect to Evolution. Do you believe that God had us evolve from less complex species and THEN breathed life into us in terms of consciousness? I know we are not supposed to read scripture as scientific truth but can you help me with this? I struggle with this deeply. Did we evolve or were we created separate from the animals? Thanks!! @bishoprobertbarron
Hey Father, thanks for taking the time. In these days where the Church is taking a beating in the media, your clips are a welcome relief and remedy to the anti Catholic vitriol that is being dished out.
@adstanra But you haven't seen to the metaphysical level. At the deepest level, all things are here and now coming forth from that which exists through the power of its own essence.
@elzoog Did I say that Behemoth was the center of the universe?! The point is that God surveys and provides for all of his creation. Our sense of cosmic right and wrong is based upon a hopelessly limited vision of the whole. And what makes you think that physical death is the worst-case scenario?
@twistedcard How do you explain the stunningly complex intelligibility that is evident at all levels of reality, microscopically and macrocosmically? Or to state it differently, what accounts for the mathematically precise laws of nature? "Science" can't possibly explain this, since science rests on it.
@elzoog Why would you think that the universe revolves around human beings?! Take a look at the 40th chapter of the book of Job, especially the verses dealing with Leviathan and Behemoth.
"The entire universe has been loved into existence. What's Love? Love, said Thomas Aquinas, is willing the good of the other as other...Love is a great act of the will. When say I desire your good not for my sake but for yours. Love is to break out of the black hole of the ego and say my life is about you...so in regard to the whole of the universe love is the ground, because God doesn't need the world, but God has willed it into existence. What else does creation say to us..."? Father Barron
@twistedcard I think my answer--that stunning, universal intelligibility is grounded in a great Intelligence that thought it into being--is pretty satisfying. And you haven't even begun to offer a coherent answer. Like most atheists, you just give up. Until you can offer a really compelling answer that's better than mine, I'll stick with God.
@pisumalu Friend, what I've been arguing ad nauseam is that both of us hold strongly to our own positions. Good. What I resist is the implication that you're somehow "above the fray" while I am going about my divisive business. What I have always wanted is a return to real argument about our differing positions, but you keep saying, incoherently in my judgment, that religious argument is a bad thing.
Except that a healthy, self-sufficient ego is vital to not only existence, but happiness within that existence. A healthy, self-sufficient ego does not eliminate the possibility of love; to the contrary, it is the only way which one may express, or know of, love.
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation: 00:10 💫 God's creation is not out of need, but to manifest and share His glory, reflecting His love and perfection. 00:43 💖 Love is willing the good of the other as other, breaking free from self-centeredness and ego, reflecting God's act of creation. 01:16 ☮️ Creation affirms the fundamental reality of non-violence, contrasting with ancient myths that depicted order through violence. 02:22 🌌 God's creation from nothing reveals His non-violent, generous act, which aligns with Jesus' teachings on loving enemies. 03:14 🙏 Prayer is finding the place within ourselves where God's love and creation are present, connecting us to others and the universe. 04:02 👥 Creation signifies our fundamental connection as ontological siblings, emphasizing unity over division. 04:28 🌿 God's gift of the garden and permission to enjoy life signifies His desire for humanity to thrive and be fully alive. 06:20 🔬 Adam's naming of animals and science's reliance on intelligibility reflect God's creation and the compatibility of science and religion. 06:52 🌄 Adam's easy friendship with God evokes the role of a priest leading worship and adoration, reconnecting with God's divine rhythm. 07:26 🎭 Beginning presentations of the faith with the act of Creation rather than sin establishes a positive and grace-centered foundation. Made with HARPA AI
@pisumalu No. We're not just all equally right and equally wrong. Some tellings of the story are more adequate than others. A telling of the story that makes the Absolute needful of something outside of itself is ultimately contradictory.
How can we all be equally right and equally wrong? That makes no sense. If one were to, for example, insist that the sky is magenta, or that cyanide is good for you, they would be wrong. More so than others. That’s the fundamental issue with religion. That’s why we scientist don’t like it. It’s so subjective, and, like a house of cards, collapses if you so much as breath on it wrong.
"Always begin with grace" Some non-Christians I have known have always argued that if your point is true, then why is God violent in the OT. I have always responded that (in Ancient Israel) the individual was subordinate to society. Also, the part of the job of the Prophets was to give Israel fair warning that something bad was going to happen if they didn't "clean up their act." So all of the violence is a "divine spanking" at the level of society. Am I correct?
Father Barron, I wish I could spend an afternoon with you and just converse freely about this sort of thing. But alas, you're a busy priest with many calls on your time. Maybe one day I will get to Chicago and buy you lunch or something.
Most religious doctrines have a basis in common sense, what is best for humanity. The idea of the sabbath, for example. I don't think it's important for everyone to go to a particular kind of church on a particular day, but I think it's important for everyone to have a chance for rest and reflection on a regular basis. That is something most Americans could use more of, whether they are religious or not.
Beautiful! FYI. Cornell Labs to whom I subscribe for their ornithology work has a spectacular new documentary titled the Birds-of-Paradise Project Trailer, over 63.000 hits in about a week. I was happy to see overwhelming, the serious objection to the beautiful film is that they are using scientific rhetoric "evolution and mating habits..." that sounds like Hollywood 1970! I'm not sure if I am seeing Catholic, but almost all are saying, leave the words, the commentary about the Birds to God.
@rowanrox Whereas most translations of the first verse of Genesis say "In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth," a more literal translation from the original Hebrew is "In the beginning Of God's Creation of the heavens and the Earth..." The decision to translate it into the Perfect tense verb denoting a completed act was a poor one. It could continue.Also note that it should not be broken up into such small sentences, which allow for the interpolation of a gap where there is none.
Father, do you have a link to the rest of this sermon? I would love to hear your comments/thoughts on grace and talking with people about God's message.
love some of these point (not a Christian or anything) but an undeniable fact is that everything in this universe is connected. look at how all atoms are made of the same stuff, look at the fact that all life steams from the same ancestry over the eons, to be good is to recognize that the barrier between the external and the internal is an illusion from the ego and treat the outside world the same way you would treat yourself.
The problem with saying I like your Christ. I don't like you Christians. Is that you are assuming everyone that says they are Christians are. Going to church or staying you are Christian does not make you one. Believing in him as your lord and saviour and then trying to live like him. Knowing you can't confessing your sins and continuing to live for him. Does. God bless you all! :-)
I'm always happy to see Christians placing such an emphasis on non-violence. Where would the disastrous Bush war effort have been without the support of right-wing Christians? However, I find the topic of non-violence rather ironic in the context of understanding God through the Old Testament. God is the most violent character, by far, in the OT. What do you make of all the smiting and flooding and rending of foes, all by God or in the name of God, that appears in the OT?
What you mean that you wish you could be? Anyone may adopt any religious mindset they wish, whatever it may be; no one can prevent anyone from doing so. Your saying that you wish you could be something in the connotation of a any religious affiliation implies that you wish you could think; so, what's preventing you from thinking?
@adstanra i must agree, we have strong intuition how world should be, but its much different from what it is. non violence is the fundamental reality, i somehow think this is true, but this is not how our world works.
@alvc22 - Well, I wouldn't say that. Depends on your approach. I think there are universal aspects to all proper mythologies that speak to the human condition and are relevant across time. But all mythologies have aspects that are particular to their time and place, and if you try to apply them too literally in a different setting, you get trouble. For example, the homophobia of many churches is an anachronism, based in fear and ignorance from the past -- i.e. neither universal or necessary .
Can someone answer this question please. I understand that from Genesis, God created the heavens and the earth on the first day. The problem I have is that by day I think we mean one earth day or one complete rotation of the earth about its axis, although it could equally mean a jupiter day which is longer. My question then is how the act could have been completed in a "day" if no celestial bodies were present at the start? The statement is clearly illogical so what is the answer to this dilemma?
+splotsplot The answer is simple. We are not talking about "Earth days" Think about how long Earth and our universe have been around. Here is a nice article that might help.... www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/27/pope-francis-evolution_n_6057378.html
So which "days" are we talking about? The use of the word "day" is generally assumed to mean one rotation of planet earth about its spin axis. The article you link too makes no reference to this subject matter. On the "first day", God created the heavens and the earth. So What is the unit of time referred to here as "a day" mean? This question has to be answered or else their is just chaos of words.
What about "time". Their is no mention of the creation of time. Surely if you talk about "a day", (yet to be defined despite the implied meaning), you would need time to be in existence first.
+splotsplot Hi. Remember that Genesis explains many things with symbols. By "day" the book of Genesis means a "certain amount of time". It could have been a long or a short amount of time. We don't know. But it really doesn´t matter because what is important to understand in this first chapter of Genesis is that God created everything (and us) with an order and a purpose. Hope this helps.
But "time" was not created on the first day either. The dilenma remains - how could God have done something in a "certain amount of time" if he had yet to create "time".
Father, you make me wish I could be Catholic. What you're saying here about creation is echoed in the findings of modern science, that says that all life, all of creation, is made of molecules & atoms that were once part of ancient stars that went supernova, exploding and scattering their enriched guts throughout the universe, and they eventually coalesced into planets and then eventually came people (shortened for YT comment limitation). We are in the universe and it is in us. Is it not so?
@alvc22 - I don't understand the distinction you're making. I do agree it's wrong to expect the people of the OT to have the same sense of history as we do. In fact, since I don't believe in God, I think the OT can best be seen as an expression of Israelite culture. Like most people of that time and place, they were a primitive and vengeful lot. But they also seem to have gotten bullied and kicked around a lot. The God of the OT, therefore, is an excercise in Israelite wish fulfillment.
Chris Rampersad Yes I did. I’m commenting on how it’s not really correct. Ideology/dogma is fundamentally a violence against the other-to have a worldview is good, but the aspect of difference that makes your view distinct from other perspectives is a type of violence. Not at all to say that there aren’t universals, just that _love_ is secondary to the obscured founding violence of cultural mythos. Listen to Zizek talk about it: czcams.com/video/_x0eyNkNpL0/video.html
@@nightoftheworld not gonna claim to understand your point fully, but creation is an act of love. And anything within creation is secondary then to that founding love. Like in the video- love is therefore always more basic and fundamental than any violence. The person of Christ and everything he did and taught was totally in line with this love too- and that's why when he claims to be one with the Father, and therefore God himself- we can actually belive him!
Chris Rampersad I hear what you’re saying and I totally believe in the beauty of love-however I don’t think it’s primary. If love comes before all else then to me it cheapens it’s supernaturalness. Love is primary culturally, but secondary naturally. The primordial violence is creation itself, only retroactively can we heal that cut with love.
@alvc22 - For me, the violent nature of God in the OT is interesting because it's such a contrast to the philosophy of Jesus in the NT. Those two views are really NOT very compatible. I think we have both come to the natural conclusion: the view of God in the OT tells us more about the Israelites than it does about God. The difference: I find this to be good (but far from the only) evidence that ALL religions are cultural constructs and NONE are reliable accounts of the origins of the universe.
@hodie1211 --If one suggests I look at the universe as a creation of love, it prompts a reaction of astonishment. The universe is an impersonal space that, I think, is faulty to think it was built out of love. As for "elements of danger," I think that I wouldn't have built such things as hurricanes, earthquakes, and tornadoes to cause so much suffering. I don't see that as love.
@Awesomesome There's nothing preventing us from applying the same "loose kind of analysis" on stories of Roman or Greek gods. But we commit a false analogy if we do. In polytheistic religions that Father mentions, there is no absolutely sovereign power; there is always fighting. With the God of the Bible there is no fighting. When He does something, it's done. There is no possible resistance to Omnipotence even if there is "violence." This Omnipotence IS Love, not the God of love. God bless you.
@alvc22 If, as you say, the notion of love is supremely misunderstood then perhaps your notion, as well, is twisted beyond recognition. I can only judge based on my definition of love which includes helping those I love when they need it or ask for it. When a young girl prays to "God" to save her from a man raping her and he doesn't, that's not love. That's negligence. I also think the Gospels were written by men so I'm not sure why I need to look to them for a descrepency.
@pisumalu No! I will not let you co-opt my "whatever!" The true God has no need of anything outside of himself. That is precisely why we say that the world has been loved into being. The God who needs the world--like the Absolute that you and Hegel and Whitehead defend--will eventually manipulate the world for his own purposes.
The world was made in seven days then God put man in the garden where time does not exist and was probably in there billions of years. No one ever said this which I believe settles the argument. Why else did he make a garden and put man in it when he had the whole 🌏 world
@alvc22 - I think that mythology is always one of the greatest expressions of the particular culture it comes from. It's something that builds up over time, with many, many people involved it its creation. It is tested over that time. Religions evolve like anything else. They express the fears and ideals of the people who observe them. What seems to work is retained, and what doesn't is left behind. The idea that religions are eternal and absolute is absurd. They all change over time.
Here is another good question that nobody has been able to answer... If God exists then if I live a good life as an atheist, would I go to heaven for leading a good life or to hell for being an atheist ? My personnel opinion would be that the so called loving God would place my good life above his personnel worship and I would end up in heaven. That being the case then surely there is absolutely no point in contemplating the existence or otherwise of God or dedicating any time to the subject. Just live a good life as an atheist and if he actually exists then to heaven you go and if he doesn't exist then it all doesn't matter anyway! I have heard of "Pascals Wager". This sounds a better one.
+splotsplot Well, that depends on what you mean by "good" life. And are you an atheist because you willfully reject God or because you have never have heard of God or Jesus (or you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what God is)? The main thing is that no matter how "good" you think you are no one is without sin (No one is perfect enough for heaven.) So, if there was no Jesus we would all be going to Hell--because we all fall short.
I am an atheist because their is no evidence for God. How do you know that "no one is without sin"? surely you can't be absolutely sure. This must be an educated guess or an assumption. What evidence can you produce to support your claim that "no one is without sin". If I can propose a hypothetical argument - if somebody was born in a state of "coma" then at the age of 29 say, would they be "without sin"? An entirely plausible possibility. What is your answer?
Just to add, I also meant to say that they died at 29 without ever having a conscious life. Difficult to see how such a person living such a life could have ever "sinned" as you say - although we have still really to agree on what we mean and define by the word "sin". Given I assume the usual vague biblical definition on that point how would you respond to this possibility in relation to your statement that "no one is without sin"?
There in no evidence of God, what a great and new way of thinkin, in a way you are right but in the bigger way in the ways that matter you are wrong. God is love, God is speech, in Genesis it says God commanded the world he commanded the light, he commanded the seas and stars. also in Hindu myth it also says God was the word, he is the sound, Om repeating in and out. Which discribes homeostasis, it is the glue the radiation expressed through word and sound ( Geiger counter) which is present to all of us and in all things everywhere going in and out the heartbeats in, and out from all animals. And we are all but systems of a bigger picture just like our cells are systems that gather to tissue and organs and from there a body. So to us we are the nerve the feeling of God we can deny him, but we can also deny math 2 plus 2 does not equal 4, but it does and like a nerve feels it place and can sense a wrong, so can we. We are wired through evolution timeless craft to seek out the highest. To say wow this day was good and yesterday will get better, and then after that better and better still. And that is God we say God is love, God is mercy and peace but those are all intangible. They can't be seen or grasped at only experienced. And bing bang wallah you realize magic, God is not a man with a funny hat but of a work that must be done in all of us. We are the callings of what the book of Genesis command and what the Big Bang ions ago went in doing and search for.
Dear Father, I loved what you said about divine creation being nonviolent. That's one of the reasons I reject Darwinian evolution as incompatible with the Christian Faith. Evolution makes God the Author of death, and that violates the Orthodox biblical doctrine that death entered the world through sin. Theistic evolution also implies that God needed to struggle to create. But as you rightly said, God spoke the universe into existence, and it was an act of love. (I also believe that the empirical evidence for evolutionary theory is lacking, to say the least. But I am more concerned with the theological implications. Too many Christians don't understand science or theology and have therefore been cowed into erroneously accepting a scientific philosophy as an empirical fact and misguidedly believing that it is compatible with Orthodox Christian doctrine.)
God is the author of life, and life ends. That is different from the death that entered the world through sin. That would be the death of separation from God. Evolution doesn't imply struggle. A carpenter makes cuts and adds more pieces towards what he has planned to create. Making a cut doesn't automatically constitute a mistake. A splinter in the middle of a board doesn't know if it's in a chair or a dresser, but God's infinite love hopes and guides that splinter in a level of perfectionism we can hardly grasp. There is likely more empirical evidence for evolution than there is for anything else related to the past. It also helps that it is a reproducible phenomenon that we can extrapolate into the past. Do you have an alternative to what it means when God "spoke" creation into existence? Also know that truth can't conflict with itself.
Can we really call the death of animals death in the sense that Christians understand the term? I would say not. Material things come into being and pass out of being, naturally, so for animals, while they have sensitive and vegetative souls do not have immaterial or immortal souls and thus pass out of being because material is always changing and taking on new forms, thus ending the life of the animals. We, however, are different because we have immaterial and immortal rational souls which intentionally plan ahead and intentionally desire to continue. Thus death is unnatural for *us*. And theistic evolution doesn't commit you to believing the rational soul evolved.
emschafe That's a lot of speculation, which is much different from empirical science. As Christians we have to analyze evolutionary theory by the merits of empirical science and by a proper theological framework. Natural selection is evolution by the progress of death. Theologically, that diametrically opposes the clear Christian teaching that death is the result of sin, not the result of God's creative process. From an empirical scientific standpoint, evolution is neither verifiable nor falsifiable. It is simply a theory predicated upon certain presuppositions that may or may not be valid, depending on one's particular epistemology and worldview.
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things. You are worshipping a false God if your God is all about non resistant Love. God has always been a God of Both love and death and nothing makes it more apparent than our hanging saviour on the cross. There he is horribly dying and struggling but also forgiving us and taking on our sin, out of love. They both go hand in hand, two arms of God. Mercy and Justice. Activity and passivity. Death and Life!
So the whole universe was "loved into existence" eh? Has Fr. Barron any evidence for such a statement. Could a Nobel Prize await him him in Stockholm for such a monumental discovery ? Or was the good father just doing his job as a preacher ? Hmm, all that perfection in Eden, and who put the snake and the tree of knowledge there ?
Tom Faranda The "mechanics of creation" seem pretty important to me. To wave a magic wand and say the universe was "loved into existence" explains precisely nothing to me. Indeed it only presents the further problems as to the origins of Fr Barron's God.
God is the answer "why or how everything came from absolutely nothing in the finitude of past time. That's why everyone is a creationist. As Einstein said" we should expect (on Atheism) a lawless, lifeless chaos not the miracle" we do find us in.
What Catholic could have a problem with this insight, that says we're all physically connected, for real? Wouldn't this awaken someone to even deeper wonder? It does for me, and the creation story echoes all of this, only using more "poetic" language to do it - because the hands that set Genesis to writing simply didn't have modern scientific language to explain all this at that time. Stands to reason...
@caffingdu If I say that it was raining cats and dogs would you get upset at me and call me a liar? You fail at understanding metaphors and allegorical writing in scripture. People do all sorts of crazy things my friend, a very smart man once said, "one should not judge a philosophy by it's abuses."
the church has the ability to just make stuff up then present itself as an expert.The should keep out of the science lad, concentrate on good etgics, godd personal behavior anf social welfare programs..amen
God gave them 100s of years to repent . The people during those times were so immoral. They used sacrifice nnocent people and babies to their gods and all kinds of sexual immorality and perversions was in their midst . God is the Just judge who gave them out of His mercy 100s of years to repent but they continued in much more bloodshed and violation of His laws which led to God giving them their lawful punishment
To worship God is to be mouth to mouth with God? Sounds sexual. Is that latin based word "adoration" in the scriptures anywhere? It's latin, not Greek or Hebrew Also, why include "politics" in the things that make us "fully alive"? I would think most decent people would prefer a world without that.
@ndzoko Democrats and Republicans fight all the time. Does that mean that all politics is a waste of time or that there is no political truth?
Beautiful Bishop. Thank you.
how beautiful! It is so great to see a talk that has good scholarship and also show a relationship with God- and wonderment! Thank you, Father! Yet another one of your videos is going straight to my facebook page.
@pisumalu And as I have told you a dozen times, you are defending (quite strongly) your own version of the Great Story. And as I also told you over and again, essential to the Great Story of Christianity is the non-violence of the cross. So I will resist your self-righteousness and keep proclaiming Jesus as the Lord!
Bishop Barron, you are the real deal. Thank you.
@badpanda84 That's why those passages have to be interpreted carefully. The Bible also speaks of God's anger, but that shouldn't be read as a passing snit into which God falls. It is his passion to set things right. God is "jealous" precisely because he doesn't want us going down the self-destructive path of worshipping false gods.
Don't read that emotionally, as though God has needs. He is "jealous" for our sake, lest we fall into unhappiness.
how many kids are in your basement?
@caffingdu How could the one who made absolutely everything other than himself possibly be jealous?! Whatever being exists outside of God is the gift of God. And friend, I agree with you: there have been lots of bad Christians over the centuries. But bad Christians don't equate to bad Christianity.
Hi Bishop Barron!! I searched and i searched and I haven’t seen any lectures that explain Adam and Eve as created in Gods image with respect to Evolution. Do you believe that God had us evolve from less complex species and THEN breathed life into us in terms of consciousness? I know we are not supposed to read scripture as scientific truth but can you help me with this? I struggle with this deeply. Did we evolve or were we created separate from the animals? Thanks!! @bishoprobertbarron
Thanks for more wonderful inspiration Father. God bless your work.
Hey Father, thanks for taking the time. In these days where the Church is taking a beating in the media, your clips are a welcome relief and remedy to the anti Catholic vitriol that is being dished out.
if they concentrated on good personal behavior they would not be in so much trouble with the law and lawyers,,amen
@adstanra But you haven't seen to the metaphysical level. At the deepest level, all things are here and now coming forth from that which exists through the power of its own essence.
@elzoog Did I say that Behemoth was the center of the universe?! The point is that God surveys and provides for all of his creation. Our sense of cosmic right and wrong is based upon a hopelessly limited vision of the whole. And what makes you think that physical death is the worst-case scenario?
Absolutely wonderful. Thank you Father.
@twistedcard How do you explain the stunningly complex intelligibility that is evident at all levels of reality, microscopically and macrocosmically? Or to state it differently, what accounts for the mathematically precise laws of nature? "Science" can't possibly explain this, since science rests on it.
Science can’t explain it _yet._
@rowanrox Thomas Aquinas holds that God is creating the universe every moment: "creatio continua."
Beautifully said Bishop Barron
@elzoog Why would you think that the universe revolves around human beings?! Take a look at the 40th chapter of the book of Job, especially the verses dealing with Leviathan and Behemoth.
Great explanation, thank you God bless.
This teaching is beyond true
@Greynomad38 Who said mankind is the center of the universe?
Literally the Bible.
"The entire universe has been loved into existence. What's Love? Love, said Thomas Aquinas, is willing the good of the other as other...Love is a great act of the will. When say I desire your good not for my sake but for yours. Love is to break out of the black hole of the ego and say my life is about you...so in regard to the whole of the universe love is the ground, because God doesn't need the world, but God has willed it into existence. What else does creation say to us..."? Father Barron
@twistedcard I think my answer--that stunning, universal intelligibility is grounded in a great Intelligence that thought it into being--is pretty satisfying. And you haven't even begun to offer a coherent answer. Like most atheists, you just give up. Until you can offer a really compelling answer that's better than mine, I'll stick with God.
Would you never mention, or draw intellectual insights from Hamlet, Macbeth, Ulysses, or Captain Ahab?
@pisumalu Friend, what I've been arguing ad nauseam is that both of us hold strongly to our own positions. Good. What I resist is the implication that you're somehow "above the fray" while I am going about my divisive business. What I have always wanted is a return to real argument about our differing positions, but you keep saying, incoherently in my judgment, that religious argument is a bad thing.
Except that a healthy, self-sufficient ego is vital to not only existence, but happiness within that existence. A healthy, self-sufficient ego does not eliminate the possibility of love; to the contrary, it is the only way which one may express, or know of, love.
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:
00:10 💫 God's creation is not out of need, but to manifest and share His glory, reflecting His love and perfection.
00:43 💖 Love is willing the good of the other as other, breaking free from self-centeredness and ego, reflecting God's act of creation.
01:16 ☮️ Creation affirms the fundamental reality of non-violence, contrasting with ancient myths that depicted order through violence.
02:22 🌌 God's creation from nothing reveals His non-violent, generous act, which aligns with Jesus' teachings on loving enemies.
03:14 🙏 Prayer is finding the place within ourselves where God's love and creation are present, connecting us to others and the universe.
04:02 👥 Creation signifies our fundamental connection as ontological siblings, emphasizing unity over division.
04:28 🌿 God's gift of the garden and permission to enjoy life signifies His desire for humanity to thrive and be fully alive.
06:20 🔬 Adam's naming of animals and science's reliance on intelligibility reflect God's creation and the compatibility of science and religion.
06:52 🌄 Adam's easy friendship with God evokes the role of a priest leading worship and adoration, reconnecting with God's divine rhythm.
07:26 🎭 Beginning presentations of the faith with the act of Creation rather than sin establishes a positive and grace-centered foundation.
Made with HARPA AI
Thank you so much
I am starting a bible study from Genesis and this is very helpful
@pisumalu No. We're not just all equally right and equally wrong. Some tellings of the story are more adequate than others. A telling of the story that makes the Absolute needful of something outside of itself is ultimately contradictory.
How can we all be equally right and equally wrong? That makes no sense. If one were to, for example, insist that the sky is magenta, or that cyanide is good for you, they would be wrong. More so than others. That’s the fundamental issue with religion. That’s why we scientist don’t like it. It’s so subjective, and, like a house of cards, collapses if you so much as breath on it wrong.
"Always begin with grace"
Some non-Christians I have known have always argued that if your point is true, then why is God violent in the OT.
I have always responded that (in Ancient Israel) the individual was subordinate to society. Also, the part of the job of the Prophets was to give Israel fair warning that something bad was going to happen if they didn't "clean up their act." So all of the violence is a "divine spanking" at the level of society. Am I correct?
Father Barron, I wish I could spend an afternoon with you and just converse freely about this sort of thing. But alas, you're a busy priest with many calls on your time. Maybe one day I will get to Chicago and buy you lunch or something.
Most religious doctrines have a basis in common sense, what is best for humanity. The idea of the sabbath, for example. I don't think it's important for everyone to go to a particular kind of church on a particular day, but I think it's important for everyone to have a chance for rest and reflection on a regular basis. That is something most Americans could use more of, whether they are religious or not.
Beautiful! FYI. Cornell Labs to whom I subscribe for their ornithology work has a spectacular new documentary titled the Birds-of-Paradise Project Trailer, over 63.000 hits in about a week. I was happy to see overwhelming, the serious objection to the beautiful film is that they are using scientific rhetoric "evolution and mating habits..." that sounds like Hollywood 1970! I'm not sure if I am seeing Catholic, but almost all are saying, leave the words, the commentary about the Birds to God.
@rowanrox Whereas most translations of the first verse of Genesis say "In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth," a more literal translation from the original Hebrew is "In the beginning Of God's Creation of the heavens and the Earth..." The decision to translate it into the Perfect tense verb denoting a completed act was a poor one. It could continue.Also note that it should not be broken up into such small sentences, which allow for the interpolation of a gap where there is none.
love is only a marketing term..it does not exist on the ground floor..amen
Yeah, let's be 《gracey 》!
All life !
Father, do you have a link to the rest of this sermon? I would love to hear your comments/thoughts on grace and talking with people about God's message.
love some of these point (not a Christian or anything) but an undeniable fact is that everything in this universe is connected. look at how all atoms are made of the same stuff, look at the fact that all life steams from the same ancestry over the eons, to be good is to recognize that the barrier between the external and the internal is an illusion from the ego and treat the outside world the same way you would treat yourself.
0:01 For some reason I read "Father Brown".
Adam being the first philosopher and scientist, never thought of it that way.
That's beautiful
The problem with saying I like your Christ. I don't like you Christians. Is that you are assuming everyone that says they are Christians are. Going to church or staying you are Christian does not make you one. Believing in him as your lord and saviour and then trying to live like him. Knowing you can't confessing your sins and continuing to live for him. Does. God bless you all! :-)
@pisumalu But, once again, you've just made an argument!
Bishop Robert Barron
I would love to speak to you on Christ consciousness
love is an emotional term..i doubt any superbeing or superman( except clark Kent would have the emotion of love..amen
I'm always happy to see Christians placing such an emphasis on non-violence. Where would the disastrous Bush war effort have been without the support of right-wing Christians?
However, I find the topic of non-violence rather ironic in the context of understanding God through the Old Testament. God is the most violent character, by far, in the OT. What do you make of all the smiting and flooding and rending of foes, all by God or in the name of God, that appears in the OT?
No response.
That is because he has a plan that goes beneath that.
Praise the Lord Jesus Christ 🙏 Mother Mary Pray For Us 🙏Abba Father Bless us and we Adore You 🙏
@sunbeamcatcher Bad Christians don't equate to bad Christianity.
well in the book of Deuteronomy during the commandment about not worshipping false gods, it says God is a jealous god.
@pisumalu Whatever!
What you mean that you wish you could be? Anyone may adopt any religious mindset they wish, whatever it may be; no one can prevent anyone from doing so. Your saying that you wish you could be something in the connotation of a any religious affiliation implies that you wish you could think; so, what's preventing you from thinking?
Amen!
On the movie Esther!
How does one be "jealous" for someone else? That makes no sense in any context; not grammatically, and not in actuality.
@alvc22 I agree with you. I don't understand how my post says otherwise.
It’s so odd watching old Bishop Barron videos and not hearing the iconic tune at the beginning.
Is there a full recording of this speech anywhere?
@adstanra i must agree, we have strong intuition how world should be, but its much different from what it is.
non violence is the fundamental reality, i somehow think this is true, but this is not how our world works.
Did he say Genesis was symbolic? Check out Kolbe Center for another POV.
@alvc22 - Well, I wouldn't say that. Depends on your approach. I think there are universal aspects to all proper mythologies that speak to the human condition and are relevant across time.
But all mythologies have aspects that are particular to their time and place, and if you try to apply them too literally in a different setting, you get trouble. For example, the homophobia of many churches is an anachronism, based in fear and ignorance from the past -- i.e. neither universal or necessary .
As King Asuero King of Persia and Media He said i'm not silly death people doesn't paid tribute
Absolutly! 😇😇😇😇
Can someone answer this question please. I understand that from Genesis, God created the heavens and the earth on the first day. The problem I have is that by day I think we mean one earth day or one complete rotation of the earth about its axis, although it could equally mean a jupiter day which is longer. My question then is how the act could have been completed in a "day" if no celestial bodies were present at the start? The statement is clearly illogical so what is the answer to this dilemma?
+splotsplot The answer is simple. We are not talking about "Earth days" Think about how long Earth and our universe have been around. Here is a nice article that might help.... www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/27/pope-francis-evolution_n_6057378.html
So which "days" are we talking about? The use of the word "day" is generally assumed to mean one rotation of planet earth about its spin axis. The article you link too makes no reference to this subject matter. On the "first day", God created the heavens and the earth. So What is the unit of time referred to here as "a day" mean? This question has to be answered or else their is just chaos of words.
What about "time". Their is no mention of the creation of time. Surely if you talk about "a day", (yet to be defined despite the implied meaning), you would need time to be in existence first.
+splotsplot Hi. Remember that Genesis explains many things with symbols. By "day" the book of Genesis means a "certain amount of time". It could have been a long or a short amount of time. We don't know. But it really doesn´t matter because what is important to understand in this first chapter of Genesis is that God created everything (and us) with an order and a purpose. Hope this helps.
But "time" was not created on the first day either. The dilenma remains - how could God have done something in a "certain amount of time" if he had yet to create "time".
Father, you make me wish I could be Catholic. What you're saying here about creation is echoed in the findings of modern science, that says that all life, all of creation, is made of molecules & atoms that were once part of ancient stars that went supernova, exploding and scattering their enriched guts throughout the universe, and they eventually coalesced into planets and then eventually came people (shortened for YT comment limitation). We are in the universe and it is in us. Is it not so?
common sense is not a gift, its a punishment. Because you have to deal with everyone who doesn't have it
Jesus loves you . Repent and come to the Lord
@alvc22 - I don't understand the distinction you're making. I do agree it's wrong to expect the people of the OT to have the same sense of history as we do. In fact, since I don't believe in God, I think the OT can best be seen as an expression of Israelite culture. Like most people of that time and place, they were a primitive and vengeful lot. But they also seem to have gotten bullied and kicked around a lot. The God of the OT, therefore, is an excercise in Israelite wish fulfillment.
Violence is the fundamentally Real Thing-love is in how one uses that in the service of communal caretaking ethics.
Not true! Did you listen to the video?
Chris Rampersad Yes I did. I’m commenting on how it’s not really correct. Ideology/dogma is fundamentally a violence against the other-to have a worldview is good, but the aspect of difference that makes your view distinct from other perspectives is a type of violence. Not at all to say that there aren’t universals, just that _love_ is secondary to the obscured founding violence of cultural mythos.
Listen to Zizek talk about it:
czcams.com/video/_x0eyNkNpL0/video.html
@@nightoftheworld not gonna claim to understand your point fully, but creation is an act of love. And anything within creation is secondary then to that founding love. Like in the video- love is therefore always more basic and fundamental than any violence. The person of Christ and everything he did and taught was totally in line with this love too- and that's why when he claims to be one with the Father, and therefore God himself- we can actually belive him!
Chris Rampersad I hear what you’re saying and I totally believe in the beauty of love-however I don’t think it’s primary. If love comes before all else then to me it cheapens it’s supernaturalness. Love is primary culturally, but secondary naturally. The primordial violence is creation itself, only retroactively can we heal that cut with love.
@alvc22 - For me, the violent nature of God in the OT is interesting because it's such a contrast to the philosophy of Jesus in the NT. Those two views are really NOT very compatible. I think we have both come to the natural conclusion: the view of God in the OT tells us more about the Israelites than it does about God. The difference: I find this to be good (but far from the only) evidence that ALL religions are cultural constructs and NONE are reliable accounts of the origins of the universe.
@hodie1211 --If one suggests I look at the universe as a creation of love, it prompts a reaction of astonishment. The universe is an impersonal space that, I think, is faulty to think it was built out of love. As for "elements of danger," I think that I wouldn't have built such things as hurricanes, earthquakes, and tornadoes to cause so much suffering. I don't see that as love.
Those are the things that changed after the disobedience of man leading to the fallen state of the world, which Jesus has conquered .
Sorry for the 14 years late reply lol 😂
@Awesomesome There's nothing preventing us from applying the same "loose kind of analysis" on stories of Roman or Greek gods. But we commit a false analogy if we do. In polytheistic religions that Father mentions, there is no absolutely sovereign power; there is always fighting. With the God of the Bible there is no fighting. When He does something, it's done. There is no possible resistance to Omnipotence even if there is "violence." This Omnipotence IS Love, not the God of love. God bless you.
@alvc22 If, as you say, the notion of love is supremely misunderstood then perhaps your notion, as well, is twisted beyond recognition. I can only judge based on my definition of love which includes helping those I love when they need it or ask for it. When a young girl prays to "God" to save her from a man raping her and he doesn't, that's not love. That's negligence. I also think the Gospels were written by men so I'm not sure why I need to look to them for a descrepency.
@pisumalu No! I will not let you co-opt my "whatever!" The true God has no need of anything outside of himself. That is precisely why we say that the world has been loved into being. The God who needs the world--like the Absolute that you and Hegel and Whitehead defend--will eventually manipulate the world for his own purposes.
came here for my assignment i'm barely surviving catholic school >_
What's the matter?
The world was made in seven days then God put man in the garden where time does not exist and was probably in there billions of years.
No one ever said this which I believe settles the argument. Why else did he make a garden and put man in it when he had the whole 🌏 world
Is Adam and Eve story real?
Very interesting, thank you., Father Barron!
@alvc22 - I think that mythology is always one of the greatest expressions of the particular culture it comes from. It's something that builds up over time, with many, many people involved it its creation. It is tested over that time.
Religions evolve like anything else. They express the fears and ideals of the people who observe them. What seems to work is retained, and what doesn't is left behind. The idea that religions are eternal and absolute is absurd. They all change over time.
Here is another good question that nobody has been able to answer... If God exists then if I live a good life as an atheist, would I go to heaven for leading a good life or to hell for being an atheist ?
My personnel opinion would be that the so called loving God would place my good life above his personnel worship and I would end up in heaven. That being the case then surely there is absolutely no point in contemplating the existence or otherwise of God or dedicating any time to the subject. Just live a good life as an atheist and if he actually exists then to heaven you go and if he doesn't exist then it all doesn't matter anyway! I have heard of "Pascals Wager". This sounds a better one.
+splotsplot Well, that depends on what you mean by "good" life. And are you an atheist because you willfully reject God or because you have never have heard of God or Jesus (or you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what God is)? The main thing is that no matter how "good" you think you are no one is without sin (No one is perfect enough for heaven.) So, if there was no Jesus we would all be going to Hell--because we all fall short.
I am an atheist because their is no evidence for God.
How do you know that "no one is without sin"? surely you can't be absolutely sure. This must be an educated guess or an assumption. What evidence can you produce to support your claim that "no one is without sin". If I can propose a hypothetical argument - if somebody was born in a state of "coma" then at the age of 29 say, would they be "without sin"? An entirely plausible possibility. What is your answer?
Just to add, I also meant to say that they died at 29 without ever having a conscious life. Difficult to see how such a person living such a life could have ever "sinned" as you say - although we have still really to agree on what we mean and define by the word "sin". Given I assume the usual vague biblical definition on that point how would you respond to this possibility in relation to your statement that "no one is without sin"?
There in no evidence of God, what a great and new way of thinkin, in a way you are right but in the bigger way in the ways that matter you are wrong. God is love, God is speech, in Genesis it says God commanded the world he commanded the light, he commanded the seas and stars. also in Hindu myth it also says God was the word, he is the sound, Om repeating in and out. Which discribes homeostasis, it is the glue the radiation expressed through word and sound ( Geiger counter) which is present to all of us and in all things everywhere going in and out the heartbeats in, and out from all animals. And we are all but systems of a bigger picture just like our cells are systems that gather to tissue and organs and from there a body. So to us we are the nerve the feeling of God we can deny him, but we can also deny math 2 plus 2 does not equal 4, but it does and like a nerve feels it place and can sense a wrong, so can we. We are wired through evolution timeless craft to seek out the highest. To say wow this day was good and yesterday will get better, and then after that better and better still. And that is God we say God is love, God is mercy and peace but those are all intangible. They can't be seen or grasped at only experienced. And bing bang wallah you realize magic, God is not a man with a funny hat but of a work that must be done in all of us. We are the callings of what the book of Genesis command and what the Big Bang ions ago went in doing and search for.
But what evidence do you have for all these statements? It is all very well saying, "in Genesis it says..." but that is not enough.
@alvc22 Oh. O.k. :-)
Dear Father, I loved what you said about divine creation being nonviolent. That's one of the reasons I reject Darwinian evolution as incompatible with the Christian Faith. Evolution makes God the Author of death, and that violates the Orthodox biblical doctrine that death entered the world through sin. Theistic evolution also implies that God needed to struggle to create. But as you rightly said, God spoke the universe into existence, and it was an act of love. (I also believe that the empirical evidence for evolutionary theory is lacking, to say the least. But I am more concerned with the theological implications. Too many Christians don't understand science or theology and have therefore been cowed into erroneously accepting a scientific philosophy as an empirical fact and misguidedly believing that it is compatible with Orthodox Christian doctrine.)
God is the author of life, and life ends. That is different from the death that entered the world through sin. That would be the death of separation from God.
Evolution doesn't imply struggle. A carpenter makes cuts and adds more pieces towards what he has planned to create. Making a cut doesn't automatically constitute a mistake. A splinter in the middle of a board doesn't know if it's in a chair or a dresser, but God's infinite love hopes and guides that splinter in a level of perfectionism we can hardly grasp.
There is likely more empirical evidence for evolution than there is for anything else related to the past. It also helps that it is a reproducible phenomenon that we can extrapolate into the past. Do you have an alternative to what it means when God "spoke" creation into existence? Also know that truth can't conflict with itself.
Can we really call the death of animals death in the sense that Christians understand the term? I would say not. Material things come into being and pass out of being, naturally, so for animals, while they have sensitive and vegetative souls do not have immaterial or immortal souls and thus pass out of being because material is always changing and taking on new forms, thus ending the life of the animals. We, however, are different because we have immaterial and immortal rational souls which intentionally plan ahead and intentionally desire to continue. Thus death is unnatural for *us*. And theistic evolution doesn't commit you to believing the rational soul evolved.
emschafe That's a lot of speculation, which is much different from empirical science. As Christians we have to analyze evolutionary theory by the merits of empirical science and by a proper theological framework. Natural selection is evolution by the progress of death. Theologically, that diametrically opposes the clear Christian teaching that death is the result of sin, not the result of God's creative process. From an empirical scientific standpoint, evolution is neither verifiable nor falsifiable. It is simply a theory predicated upon certain presuppositions that may or may not be valid, depending on one's particular epistemology and worldview.
Congrats on rejecting scientific fact. Please see sense.
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.
You are worshipping a false God if your God is all about non resistant Love. God has always been a God of Both love and death and nothing makes it more apparent than our hanging saviour on the cross. There he is horribly dying and struggling but also forgiving us and taking on our sin, out of love. They both go hand in hand, two arms of God. Mercy and Justice. Activity and passivity. Death and Life!
B
So the whole universe was "loved into existence" eh? Has Fr. Barron any evidence for such a statement. Could a Nobel Prize await him him in Stockholm for such a monumental discovery ? Or was the good father just doing his job as a preacher ? Hmm, all that perfection in Eden, and who put the snake and the tree of knowledge there ?
Tony D'Arcy Can YOU explain origins apart from God? Or is your only point that it couldn't be God?
Tony D'Arcy Yes - the evidence is that we're here - regardless of the mechanics of creation.
Tim Spangler I think science does a pretty good job of explaining origins without recourse to magic, which is what Fr Barron is stating.
Tom Faranda The "mechanics of creation" seem pretty important to me. To wave a magic wand and say the universe was "loved into existence" explains precisely nothing to me. Indeed it only presents the further problems as to the origins of Fr Barron's God.
Tony D'Arcy Humor me pal. I'm in an especially jockular mood. Tell me how science has explained the origin of life. Try not to chuckle when typing.
God is the answer "why or how everything came from absolutely nothing in the finitude of past time. That's why everyone is a creationist. As Einstein said" we should expect (on Atheism) a lawless, lifeless chaos not the miracle" we do find us in.
What Catholic could have a problem with this insight, that says we're all physically connected, for real? Wouldn't this awaken someone to even deeper wonder? It does for me, and the creation story echoes all of this, only using more "poetic" language to do it - because the hands that set Genesis to writing simply didn't have modern scientific language to explain all this at that time. Stands to reason...
@caffingdu
If I say that it was raining cats and dogs would you get upset at me and call me a liar? You fail at understanding metaphors and allegorical writing in scripture. People do all sorts of crazy things my friend, a very smart man once said, "one should not judge a philosophy by it's abuses."
For god so loved the earth that he created disease , famines , natural disasters , extinction events , black holes , savage animal predators.
@luther soriano manalo that is how ignorant people react. They attack the person instead of the idea.
the church has the ability to just make stuff up then present itself as an expert.The should keep out of the science lad, concentrate on good etgics, godd personal behavior anf social welfare programs..amen
It's good to ignore the old testimony. Wow was God violent back then....killed all humans except some of a boat.
God gave them 100s of years to repent . The people during those times were so immoral. They used sacrifice nnocent people and babies to their gods and all kinds of sexual immorality and perversions was in their midst . God is the Just judge who gave them out of His mercy 100s of years to repent but they continued in much more bloodshed and violation of His laws which led to God giving them their lawful punishment
@@alonamaria279 they sacrificed some but God sacrificed all. How can you support this holocaust?
Bishop Barron is masterful manipulator of words and a side show alley level contortionist of ideas..amen
To worship God is to be mouth to mouth with God? Sounds sexual. Is that latin based word "adoration" in the scriptures anywhere? It's latin, not Greek or Hebrew
Also, why include "politics" in the things that make us "fully alive"? I would think most decent people would prefer a world without that.
This is rambling and speculation. It's a good thought experiment, but not much for intellectual development.
Are you an unbeliever?
This is some of the lamest logic and best question dodging I’ve ever heard. Congrats, bishop. You won.
whole lotta red better