They Took Our Trees Part 1
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- čas přidán 5. 04. 2024
- A Washington State family is left reeling from the discovery that their trees were taken by a neighbor in a commercial timber harvest. This timber trespass is a serious obstacle to their plans for building their dream home. Hundreds of trees were taken without permission from their land. This may be one of the largest known timber trespasses in the state.
All statements made in this video are our opinions you decide if this looks like it was an "accident."
I created a give send go campaign to help fund expenses. If this case makes you angry and you want to see justice done, please consider giving to the campaign.
www.givesendgo.com/Hardwaylearnttrees
Make sure to higher a good arborist, don't just rely on the word of the logging guys.
No one is going to give you money for this, you are well off.
Agree with the above. You've had an injustice done against you, and I truly hope you get justice... But making a gofundme or equivalent with your level of wealth is just a bit silly.
Still, I sympathise. Good luck.
What a terrible neighbor, I hope you get the compensation you deserve.... then buy a better piece of land with it and old growth forest
It look like they have plenty of acres with trees. Wouldn't it have made more sense for them to just let you cut an equal quantity + some of their trees and done without the lawyers? Thats what I would have done UNLESS you think it was an intentional cut.
Don't forget to sue the logging company as well
It's true if he hired a logging company and they didn't ask to see his permits they will get in trouble. He may have logged out himself
Excellent point.
They left trees on their side of property line, and took them from yours. This is clearly malicious
and left a HUGE MESS and tore up the land. plus now you need stump removal too.
Why stump removal, nature will reclaim the stumps, bugs and fungi will feast on those treats.
However, saying that, if there is a low cost way of lifting the complete stump out they are at a premium price now in the furniture making industry.
@@symonrocks9847I mean maybe if you happen to know any giants? Or happen to be materially creative enough to solve the problem that humanity does not have access to giant laborers on your own time. De stumping is a long and arguous process. Cannot use a chain attached to a truck you will smash your truck window like the chain is a giant rubber band.
Loggers know, they have to because of issues like this. They flag the zone and everything. The logger cut the good wood. Hoped no one would notice. Love em but loggers ain’t the brightest group I’ve ever worked with. I think this is a bad logger/forester.
That happened to a friend of mine. The power company in Washington state thought they had an easement which they did not and cleared 5 acres of trees to which they profited from . After all was said and done in the court my friend was awarded triple damages in stumpage and resale value to the tune of $5.2 million . So ... Looks like your neighbors just put you in the top 5 % income bracket.
Have him arrested for grand theft ,criminal trespassing, and felony property damage and due him for how much you think trees were worth
Cops won’t, it’s a civil matter now. Maybe if they were caught in the act. But not after the fact. DA is unlikely to take it.
It appears that when incidents result in profit, they are rarely accidental, in my opinion.
It's profoundly distressing to learn that not only were the woods stolen from him, but also, in a bitter twist of fate, he might find himself in a position where the best course of action appears to be, in a manner of speaking, "selling" the wood back to those who took it. This is because there's simply no quick fix-no way to undo the years of growth lost in an instant. It takes a century for a single tree to mature, and with 300+ of them taken, the loss is not just material but deeply emotional, echoing a sense of irreplaceable heritage and natural beauty forcibly removed. Wishing the best for you I couldn't imagine what I would be feeling in your shoes
they will be paying him triple stumpage, so they will defiantly not be making money haha
Ditto, 😢 😮 😅
If this ends up in court there is no way they are making a profit from them
@@Trevor_bow The only way I see to make this right is to take enough money from the offender to get new or more land to replace what was lost.
It's very rarely accidental. The loggers see valuable trees and raid well past where they belong to get them. All trees in their way are destroyed. That happened to us on my family's old homestead. They slashed down hundreds of years old huge oaks and bulldozed our creek right where the waterfalls were just to get to pines they wanted on our back property, thinking we wouldn't notice. They even destroyed the log cabin we had back there and took the logs and left their oil changes and grease dumped on our property. The lawsuit was huge.
I remember a business here in Ct. that went maybe 150 feet over a property line to get a nice tree. That business was forced to close immediately following that and there were also criminal charges against the owner along with the civil stuff. I think those ended up as some really nasty fines. This was 20-25 years ago, so its not the freshest of memories.
Americans do not value clean running water
Let alone waterfall. 😢
If I could have anything on earth it would be small wooded area secluded with clean running water.
Some shithead loggers cut like 30 yards into protected riparian land near where I hike for the nice trees
That neighbor assumed you would never find out.
Sue him to kingdom come !
Pray you get millions for this trespass.
Neighbor knew exactly what he was cutting
not only for trespass get them down for damages & etc also get the people they hire down as will if they say it not there fault cuz they doing what they been told i tell them that to damn bad that person put u in this u find ur way out
really. you all belong on an island together
Is that all you lot do. Sue over a few trees . You needed a drone to discover it. Seriously...
@@geraldinemccormick8635 what a dramatic soyboy, . this is the last guy you want moving in next to you .
Similar thing happened to me. Skidder damage to future tree growth was huge. My state law wanted to pay me stumpage price. My lawyer go me 10 times the value of the damage and the same for potential loss of tree value.
I ended up with more than I paid for the land and it was not enough in my estimation. It happened 40 years ago and it still bothers me.
Money is not always worth what you lost
@@aaronkreber447it is not but when the damage is done. At least make them pay dearly.
@@aaronkreber447 it is incredibly hard to put a price on trees because it mostly comes down to sentimental value and sentiment can vary depending on the tree, the type of tree, the use of the tree, the history of the tree, the variety of the tree, the size of the tree etc. So he most likely was underpaid, or maybe he was overpaid, or maybe he was paid what he was owed, we will never know
Washington State is 3x value. See Porter v. Kirkendoll, Washington Supreme Court, No. 96214-6 (September 26, 2019) that neighbor is screwed big time!
Sue his ass off!
This brought back a memory of a former employer's illegally cut Red Pine stand.The owner had 80 year old pines that had been planted in the 1920's,and maintained.One winter a logging crew moved into his pine forest and set up a saw mill,that cut all the logs on site into planks that were loaded on tractor trailers.The only mistake these thieves made was John Somerville who owned these trees,was not a man to be trifled with.He had deep pockets and left the loggers,truck drivers and anyone who bought his trees completely destitute.
As it should be. Watched a video where someone lost two large pecan trees to thieves The police basically shrugged it off.
Wow I appreciate that wow.
And hiw did he do that?
He probably did this intentionally cause he's desperate for the money and knew you'd win in court, but he also knows it takes a lifetime to get that much back, and that's IF you ever get it through the courts
It didn’t take a a day to cut down your trees where were you when this was going on. This happened to my dad 80 years a guy built a house and my dad hired a budozer a flattened his house don’t get mad get even.
There was a case in New Jersey where a neighbor intentionally had a tree service cut trees on a neighbors property because he wanted a better view of NYC from his home. Kinnelon County v Grant Harber.
He plead guilty, and paid a fine to the courts for just over $13,000, but the there is a requirement that the home owner is required to replace the trees cut down, and that cost is around $1 million dollars. In this case, from the looks of the remains, the trees cut were Poplar, and White Oaks, most of which had internal rot.
In your case, the cedar trees you lost were marketable lumber trees which further drives up the value. Steve Letho, a YT lawyer did a review of the story and the follow up after the guilty verdict. Letho also stated that in regard with trees, there is a provision of law called treble damages where you would be compensated 3X the value.
This is actually a tresspass,damage to your property and theft of valuable timber. You're likely safer to get some legal help and ought to raise as many points against this guy a you can. This was intentional. Frankly you've got him by the short and curlies so make him pay.
Cedar does rot internally when it's larger than about 12 inches in diameter. Still very valuable after milling though.
@@t._._._.
I never stated that cedar rotted. I stated that the trees in the Harber case were Poplar and Oak and the pictures clearly showed internal rot.
Cedar is one of those woods that are great for exterior use along with Hemlock.
In the case of cedar, it's why shake shingles for roofing and siding are made of cedar.
Hemlock makes good fencing material and is extremely rot resistant.
That 3Xs is in Michigan. State by state, and three possible interpretations, board foot value, appearance or value of the aesthetic, and cost of replacement with similar. Ever tried transplanting a 100 year old tree?
@@Sailor376also
I actually have very luck transplanting 2-3 year old trees. Impossible to transplant a tree that develops a deep tap root.
You mean you don't have a time machine to be able to grow old growth trees overnight?
Money can’t replace those hundred year old trees. I was just driving thru west coast of Washington. Those tree are so beautiful.
So true!
I understand an idiot neighbor getting the bright idea to steal the trees but how did a professional logging company come in and remove logs without verifying the client’s ownership?
most companies look the other way . just look how the epa operates.
the company executing should be sued as well, as they were part in this and there's no excuse. probably the neighbour will try to put all blame on them.
I'm guessing the loggers gave the guy a bid on logging his property, then saw the neighbor's trees and decided to make himself a lot of money..there's no way a reputable logging business, doesn't ask for property line coordinates and does their own survey or require the land owner to do so ,before beginning any logging..recently had a 4o acre bid on for logging..went through local forester..he verified boundaries..gave those GPS readings to the logger..everyone knew where the boundaries were
Greed.
Hire a very good lawyer. They stole not only the lumber but the value of your property. Sue them until you own all of their property, your lumber they stole from you, and the lost value of your land. No different than robbing someone's bank safe deposit box.
All that for messed up survey or a cutter that can't find boundary lines. You sound like the typical Sue happy commie.
It was probably an honest mistake that two men should be able to come to terms, without lawyer's! This shit is why America is going to hell in a hand basket
@@briangattis9045 This was no simple mistake! Are you serious?! 350+ old growth PRIME cedar?! I’ve worked Right-of-Way - “a simple mistake” would be 10 to 20 trees! These thieves didn’t just clear cut they also specifically selected some of those trees - did you not watch the video?
@@Durendal70 fair but we are only hearing one side, no one in their right mind would do that on purpose. Honestly it just seems like theirs more to the story. But you might be right! God bless and have a good one brother.
@@briangattis9045 iv been a logger for 15 years, this is not something you just gentlemen's agreement away, this is a sever overstep, 300+ cedar trees is not a small amount by any means. Iv seen company's go bankrupt for less. Not to mention that its literally where dudes backyard would have been.
The more this video went on the more intentional this looked. HWL is being kind calling this "trespass". This looks like pure timber theft. In some places you can get potential value out of the smaller trees they cut and left. I hope HWL gets everything owed along with legal expenses.
Sad. File a lien on the neighbors property as well as go after the logger and their company, also see if there was a forester involved . Good luck. I hope you update in the future.
No need to. The lawsuit will settle that and then some. I'm not joking when I say that unless the neighbor is a millionaire, he is likely to have to sell his property to begin to make restitution. And millionaires don't clear cut their property.
Everyone who thinks that this will bankrupt the person…or you can file a lien…he doesnt have the ability to do so as a homeowner…the court can decide what incumberances to place on the property…also, this is going to be a difficult case to win because as it stands now, he doesnt have a recent survey done. My 38 acres was surveyed four times because the survey didnt match the recorded records, it was actually 4 acres bigger than records and title insurance wouldnt cover until i paid for two separate survey companies to perform two surveys….
This person states he used google maps, onX, gps…that wont hold up in court. I can tell you that it cost me $16k to have those surveys done…there is a chance that the corner posts were moved, tampered with, or simply not correct in the first place…you need a survey done recently to hold up…
He did have a recent survey. He said it in the video and in the comments.
@@TheAcenightcreeperhe showed the markers on video and said clearly that he had multiple surveys done. He just used the apps while he was trying to figure out exactly how bad this was at the start.
@@TheAcenightcreeper bro. I had a survey done. I used onX to find the existing rebar pin on day one of discovering this then I had a surveyor record a survey. The pins were correct the logger was way off. Oddly, the neighbor said like a curmudgeonly ancient creep that my new fangled GPS couldn't be relied upon, even after the surveyor recorded a real deal survey and my timber guys counted the stumps on my side.
Man, I'm so sorry for your loss. The heartbreak and pain is evidenced in your voice and words. Crowd fund the legal expenses if you have to, but keep suing this awful neighbor and make them miserable until financial amends have been made. They stole something from you that you'll never get back in your lifetime.
Peace, brother.
No need to crowd fund for this. The value in stolen lumber will definitely be covered in the settlement along with the personal attachment to the land. This guys getting paid!
This may take years. We may win in court but get not money out of it. but I did create a give send go. www.givesendgo.com/Hardwaylearnttrees
@@ch34pskate16 You jealous or a tree thief or something? Weird comment to make IMO.
@@hardwaylearnt you could take thier property completely in the judgement, a bill has to be paid to you.
Similar thing happened to us in Virginia. A neighbor was selling his stand of trees and encroached into our property. Luckily I was home when I heard the logging equipment getting close and walked out just in time before they started to cut several 200yr old oak trees on our property. Apparently the neighbor told him start cutting on our property, and eventually admitted his mistake, even though he marked about 20 of our trees. I don't buy it was a mistake because the guy was a complete asshole about the whole thing and knew what he was doing. Told him next time he sets foot on my property, was going to have him arrested for trespassing
Have him arrestsd for thief.
He'd be buried in that soft logged dirt. Unlocatable.
Law is on the side of the criminal. Law of the land when remote. It's remote for a reason.
Buried
I live in Virginia doing this has been very bad for people's health
Actually the Wind damaged tree is a result of logging. You take down the big trees they loose the wind block.
I said the same thing. Make sure to account for about a ten percent loss of the surrounding trees. Maybe more. Plus any they knocked the bark off off.
how do you know it was wind and not the equipment they were using that knocked it over
Root damage will have occurred with any land vehicle opperating within your property as well.
@@carlsapartments8931 Even the worst loggers would struggle to accidentally knock down 100yr old or more trees.
They would have to be cut as root, rot and bark damage take years to bring down trees, even fully ringbarked need a good 5 years to fall.
Wind however, given more surface area for the trees to act as giant sails, they are now 100 % acting as sacrificial dominoes (The now exposed trees aren't used to the high winds it will now be vulnerable to, they didn't need to grow strong roots like the outer ring set of trees) until a healthy centre canopy of trees re-emerges. This is especially true on high exposed windy terrain.
Wind breaks for woodland is incredibly irritating to fix within our small lifespans.
Your right
They seriously screwed up with this one, Washington is a timber State. Which means most of the economy in Washington started with timber farming, there are laws against this specific thing for that reason. And you know what? I hope this neighbor learns that the very hard way.This is also why there are lawyers that specialize in things such as tree law.
HE may be saying"GOODBYE" to HIS property if your case goes like i think it will. greed never learn's , till you lose everything.
This happened in jersey and the tree cutter had to pay millions. Not just the cost of the wood, it was the cost to restore the forest.
Good point. Add the cost of replanting.
I ran self loader log truck for 20 years in Washington State. I saw a few of these situations. From what I’m seeing is the land owner was a dirt bag and he hired a dirt bag “logger”. Logger worked on percentage, they were both in on it. This may not end well for you, guarantee they have done it before. You may get a judgement in court, but that doesn’t mean compensation
then the guy need a hot lead earring
give him a tattoo from a thousand yards away
Might struggle to recover from the logger as they can just close and open again but the Naibor has property that can be leaned and auctioned
I logged for 30 years in California and Oregon, and out here Timber piracy can get you fined and thrown in prison. I have seen it happen more than once .
ur funny. compensation can be gotten is different ways... LOL
In some states you get triple the trees worth. Hope you go after the company that cut them down also, they have just as much responsibility if not more than your neighbor. The company should have known better than to do this.
exactly
Intentional is 10x value here. unintentional 3x.
Treble. Not triple.
@@brianmedeiros417 Please explain to me how you get treble damage? Treble is an adjustable frequency setting knob on stereo equipment.
6 times the value of the timber.
I saw a similar case a while back and the perpetrator was forced to pay replacement costs which were enormous. Basically what it would cost to restore the land. It was millions of $$$$.
That was on Steve Lehto’s channel
These wouldn't qualify for replacement costs. The timber value is all you could get here, and they're not a high-value species. But Washinton State has Treble damages, so that means he is entitled to 3x the assessed value. Remember, "Timber value" is the value after harvesting, which severely depreciates the value of the trees, maybe $500 each on average when the math is all done. But 300 trees at $500 = $150,000 x 3 = $450,000. It adds up.
Then there's the threat of erosion, and restabilizing the soil, which may now need re-grading, surveys of the geology, hydrology, etc. You can likely throw another $100k on top for the required earthworks.
@@Arkryalthe land owner ws planning a home where the trees created screen for future home. This was intentional to harvest lovely old trees
@@arribaficationwineho32he wasn’t going to build one the side was going to sell his home with a “view of the city” for a higher price and hired a company to cut his trees down saying that there was permission.
@@tubby921 but he didn’t. Now he can pay and pay for replanting
I'm sorry for your loss. I'm also in WA state and caught the logger next door red-handed stealing some of my trees. I filmed him climbing my fence to cut them. That logger lost his business once the community saw the footage.
Not sure where you're at, but in Oregon, if you steal trees, standard going rate is triple the stump value.
Correct and when the guilty party refuses you have to go to court to get it. That is where we are.
If he couldn’t pay you I would definitely put a lien on his property.
@@twinturbocoyoteftw Dude probably already sold that piece of property. That is usually what happens after they log.
@@w8stralohh they still own something.
@@bassboy6963 ... Guess you do not know how life works: Yes, they Own something, but GETTING its value is very hard and will cost you a lot of $$$. A piece of property you can put a lien on it eventually forcing the owner to sell and you get the proceeds. Trying to get your $$$ from them via courts is often near impossible in the legal system and by time lawyers get done, you gained next to nothing as the courts PURPOSEFULLY draaaaaaaagggg it out so they can rack up ever higher bills as they scratch each others backs...... Wake up bud. Life isn't about fairness and justice.
I've logged and I'm a landowner. My heart goes out to you. I always made sure I knew exactly where the property lines were and the law here is not to cut line trees and only half within 50 feet. Unfortunately the rule is to pay stumpage. I've always considered this to be wrong. As you've said here it takes decades or a century to grow a beautiful large tree. I hope you fare well with your battle. Blessings
I'm sorry you have had the loss of the trees. I used to have property in lower western NY which had old old trees. One of the first things I did was walk out property line marking every tree, stump, dead fall, and boulder with neon orange paint. Mostly since it was prime hunting land and I had young children who played in the woods. I also put posted signs every 50 yds or so. My neighbors thought I was nuts but when a drunk hunter was removed from my property by the Sheriff, there were no arguments to be made. When my neighbor had loggers do his property and they got greedy and cut 2 trees on my property, my neighbor stopped them. He made the forman apologize and pay me for the trees, since they crossed the obvious Orange line. I hope the Judge and the State go hard on the loggers and your neighbor for not supervising them. Yours was not an end of the day cut. You also need to make them replant your property so you don't have erosion issues in the future.
There is no way that a reputable logging company would not verify the boundaries of the property that they are allowed to cut on. That logging company and the neighbor are both liable for what happened, and it is quite clear what happened given that about 98% of what was cut on your property was valuable trees. And you can clearly see the sudden turn in the cutting path, and the avoidance of the smaller non-valuable trees.
I would also be asking for the mill to provide a record of what every log was used for. Was it all just cut into lumber, or did the mill pick out the biggest and best logs to sell at a premium rate to a custom furniture maker or other parties looking for large cedar logs. Some places make a lot of money cutting the logs into cross cut sections to make tables where you can see the tree rings. A 3" to 4" thick crosscut slab made into a live edge table can fetch $500 to $3,000 depending on width. So lots of value in a tall cedar tree, maybe more than what the tree/forest people have calculated.
This was totally intentional, you don't go 100ft into someone's property without knowing
you do if its not marked well and no survey was conducted
It's not only the timber value, but also the aesthetic value, especially since you wanted those trees to be a visual buffer. When is the trial?
Aesthetic value isn't real
@@hugh_jorgan633 How so?
@@hugh_jorgan633 It depends on where you live, in some places neighbours have sued homeowners for cutting trees that were on the homeowners land and won due to loss of privacy etc.
It’s all good though. The replacement trees will grown up and everything will look normal in only about 80 years. 😂🤣✌️
@@hugh_jorgan633 In this case, it should be about cost of replacement. An appropriate penalty would be life in prison equal to the lifetime of the oldest trees that were cut. That, or replacement by transplant of all the lost trees.
It was obviously intentional. No one owns property without knowing where the property lines are. This should have been charged as grand theft. It was no accident and the neighbor knew exactly what he was doing. Regardless of board cost this neighbor did serious damage to your lands value. Esthetics plays a big part of land valuations and 100 year old trees adds great value to a property. Sorry for your loss my friend.
Forget grand threat. Tree law can be harsh. Very harsh.
The loggers are scum also and liable
TONS of owners THINK they know where their property lines are. Many of them are very wrong.
Also consider standing timber insurance. I failed to insure upwards of 4000 mixed conifer trees on 25 acres of my property. The USFS lost control of a prescribed burn which became the Hermit’s Peak/Calf Canyon Fire which also destroyed my home and everything I owned. The dwelling and its contents were underinsured which FEMA has compensated for, but they refuse to compensate for the destroyed timber resource because I had never sold any of the timber in any form or fashion, hence no basis for economic loss. So if a lousy thieving neighbor isn’t reason enough to insure timber, the U.S. Government certainly is.
This happen by my mom's house and the logger had to pay for replacing the trees which is a lot more than the timber price. Good luck. They should have known
If I were the judge, I'd have the neighbour pay the amount he received from the mill, plus 10% AND have him bear the cost of planting the same number of trees but of higher value. There's got to be some sort of penalty. otherwise, how do you discourage the neighbour from doing this to someone else? The neighbour can try to go after the company he hired for partial reimbursement if he so chooses (Good luck with that!)
Too often in our courts these days, people get off with a slap on the hand, if the prosecutor's office and/or the police even choose to pursue it! I've seen on some court cam videos that at least in Texas there is often restitution owed, written in a court order, to victims of theft, to be paid by the thieves! YAY!
I wish courts everywhere did this and not only for monetary losses!!!!
Too many kids these days learn that there often aren't consequences, besides a telling-off at the most, for their actions. In the public school system here in Ottawa, Canada the teachers can only keep kids in from recess (But give up their own break times) or send the kid to the vice-principal's office (Where they just sit) for any wrongdoings. The kids can't be given extra work, can't be kept after school, can't be given lines to write ..! One grade-3 girl threatened to bring a knife to school the next day and kill everyone. Want to know what happened? Nothing! Absolutely nothing!!!
When are the leaders of our education systems going to learn that they have ventured down the wrong paths? When are our justice systems going to start holding people seriously accountable? Perhaps, for minor offences only, the youth need to spend a year doing civilian service: yard maintenance for seniors, planting trees, hospital orderly, roadside and in-the-park garbage picking, graffiti removal, planting flowers and decorative plants in lower-income neighbourhoods, cleaning up around abandoned buildings/properties ... Get the idea? Inmates in prisons should be required to work, producing items that can be sold to help pay for their "room and board" plus the other associated costs. They could also work in a laundry facility on prison grounds where they do the laundry for shelters, public old age homes and hospitals, train therapy dogs, and farming (minimum security only) ... This would be a partial paying of their debt to society. I believe this would be somewhat "Fair", don't you?
the same need to apply to metal recyclers who buy stolen Cataytic converters....!
Make him put back the same age tree he removed and guarantee them to live
You encountered professional thieves my friend, I truly hope you get some compensation for your loss, though it cannot be replaced...😢 I would request that you get wood from your neighbors lot to replace what you lost, it would send a message, and let him know how it feels...
Sadly it won't. And any trees left were either to difficult to get to or too small. This was a clear cut. They take anything of value.
Its not the 2 million in loss of lumber that they got at those high prices its the loss of your beautiful tranquility that you will never get back
Alder is snapped off because 350 trees aren't there to protect it anymore
Wow. Man I hope you get full justice on this in court.
A friend of mine owned a property with old cherry trees on it. Someone removed the trees and nobody was caught.
This is ; theft for financial gains, tresspasing, destruction of property, ect. Careless and reckless concern for others property. I would file suit for no less than 30 million , plus any and all fees incurred including attorney fees, court fees , but NOT limited to.
pretty sure the Forestry Service will want a word also. and the state permitting office(if there was one)
They took your trees because they’re easier to harvest. That corner on their side rolls off steep. Probably thought that you’d never notice. Highly likely that this was intentional. Your neighbor AND the logger is responsible. Considerations for compensation; loss of lumber value, loss of view, cost to replace trees.
People's lack of integrity and honesty is so sad.
Be sure to include any trees that were damaged during logging.
I do have experience in Surveying and I have to tell ya' that this all looks Blatant to me. Like they purposely, knowingly logged your tree's, may in hopes that a good neighbor would turn his other cheek! Someone needs to be taught a lesson and a good one at that. Go after the whole bunch!
The fact that is cut the deepest into the property on the far side of the property sure feels like they hoped no one would notice.
Had a similar issue on my tiny residential 1/2 acre which abuts a county park. My wife heard chainsaws that sounded way too loud and close to the house. She walked to the back fence and saw workers cutting down trees on our property, which includes some rough terrain that is outside the fence. They removed several Ashe Juniper trees (called cedars colloquially) and some oaks. They clearly had no idea where the property lines were even though I could have walked right to surveyors spikes on each corner and showed them - but they didn't ask. We contacted the county and eventually reached the right people and we were compensated for the trees. I'm glad I didn't have to sue anyone - we had to do that when the lady we hired to handle my parent's estate sale, took all the money from it and ghosted us. We sued and won, but it was a pain. Very sorry you are going through this. Stay focussed and don't let them get away with it.
In 2017, the city of Seattle fined a group of homeowners $500k for removing about 150 scrub maples and alders to improve their view. The size of your loss of valuable timber is so much larger. With treble damages, you'll likely be awarded millions.
guy wanted your tree's. now YOU may end up with all his property and probly his money too.
What I would be fighting for is a lot addition that takes approx. 150ft (width) of there property the full length of yours. This will hopefully get you the value in trees back and keep your privacy. Oh the joys of neighbors these days. Best of luck!
Sue not only for money, but get them to replant three trees for every three that they cut down. 💙 T.E.N.
The trees they left are done, too. They’ll decline with the huge influx of sunlight.
Not to mention the invasive control you’ll have to invest in for 3-5 years if you’re not going to just spray everything.
Well I’d count the wind blown too. They wouldn’t be coming down if the support trees weren’t removed. You will start to see this more and more with that huge gap removed. Make sure to ask about that with loggers. They will tell you about it wind damage with what remains. You may be able to get a bit more
We were building a road into a remote mine in northern BC , the logging contractor was coming up to the end of the project ahead of us , we use to fly in with choppers , there was an area near the end that had the best timber of the whole 30 km of road , he came to there and widened the right away about 3 times wider , we had to stop his logging operation down , he was claiming they were danger trees
My thumbs up is for your content and displays my complete disbelief of a neighbor trespassing like this. Stunning. Take it to them and his land too!
This happened to my Uncle a few years back, but not nearly as bad as your loss. He sued the neighbor and got not only the value of the trees, but also replacement value... which is much higher. He was awarded $20,000 a tree, your lawsuit also needs to include the replacement value of the trees, to make you whole again, because you didn't intend for the trees to be cut, so the timber value isn't sufficient.
This carnage just makes me sick to my stomach. This is just inexcusable! It's a good thing our home site wasn't violated like this. I am sorrier than I can say -- we're in North Central Florida and our trees are very important to us. I can only tell you that I am so very sorry this has happened. I don't know how anyone could be that crass and insensitive to the difference between doing the right thing and, as in this instance doing the wrong thing. This is straight out and out theft in more ways than one. You need to be sure you claim for the cleanup required by their stupid logging operation. Leaving all that mess behind is also inexcusable.
The expense of a lawyer, the fact they destroyed your property, the trespass, the profit at your expense, even the environmental impact makes me livid and I don’t even own it. I can’t imagine the absolute rage you have for what indignation and ignorance your neighbour has done to your home. And that is what it is! Your property, your home! I’m so sorry this happened to you. Your moron neighbour is in for a big comeuppance. He should owe you millions.
I checked a tree calculator and you’re looking at aprox $5,000 a tree. Times that by 350 and that 1.75 million. Add all the damage to property, inconvenience, emotional damage, monetary damage to fight this and property worth its well over 2 million.
not counting clean up and repair to head off erosion on that slope. there is a reason nobody cut there for 80 to 100 year's.
Tree rustling is a long held family tradition in the Ozarks. If you leave for vacation you will have no trees when you come back. My fIL lived in Marshfield, MO and his next door neighbor, a man he had great relations with, "accidently" came onto his property and cut a big walnut valued at probably $5000. Many of the residents tolerate, no promote, this type of behavior.
Kind of hard to think he didn't do that on purpose, especially when none of his trees were cut, and he took the biggest most valuable trees.
The mill never paid a dime more for timber when 2x4s were 10$ and plywood was 80$ at the big box store.
Mill's do not make the money selling. The mark up was done at the retail end, not the logger or mill end, they saw ZERO, in fact log prices DROPPED.
@w8stral 100% false! I work in the lumber industry in Washington state and the mills were making a killing. Was literally told by the mills to pay the huge mark up or they'd ship it to Arizona and Texas where they would happily pay the huge price. Hampton, Alta, Washington timber, Beck all profited big time. Hampton bought 145000 acres from weyerhaeuser and jacked up prices to compensate for the large purchase. They took advantage of the situation in 2021.
@@jameswilson5813 Try a calendar... You might have noticed this guys land was cleared in 22' when the prices for logs had already fallen off a cliff to below half genius. Do try to keep up on the slow coach at least hrmm?
The ocean dear genius does not GO to Arizona... suggest a map. Ship it... Uh huh, SUUUURRREEEE. Arizona doesn't have a port.....
Western Red Cedar is effectively never used outside of the PNW other than shakes if even that. It is a garbage wood unless you can get your hands on old growth 100+ years old. You might have noticed but NO ONE is putting WOOD on their homes exterior anywhere anymore.
Trees have two values. First is the lumber value and second is the landscape value. This are two totally different numbers. The board foot value of a tree is a lot less than the landscape value. A cedar might have a board foot value of $200 to $1000 but as a landscape value it is in the tens of thousands. Purdue University has a book that has the landscape value of almost every species of timber in the US and Canada.
He assumed you would never notice. He can now make it good
Good luck...same thing happened to me on our property shortly after my husband passed. As soon as the neighbor heard from my attorney, he declared bankruptcy and we had to attach the insurance company. Had a 50,000.00 estimate of stolen trees, damage and reparation, and in Ohio, should have been treble damages, but after 3 years of litigation, back and forth, only recouped 18,000 and out of that was the attorney fees. Justice was not done. Hopefully you fare better
I feel for U guys. As you mentioned, this act can only be classified as deliberate & greed.
Money aside… you can’t get those trees back. They are irreplaceable!
I think a land transfer strip with trees is in the cards as a buffer if nothing else as you had
mentioned, plus $$ damages, income lose $$, plus your legal fees and whatever else.
Put a lien on his assets / property until all get resolved.
Best of luck in a quick resolution.
dont forget clean up and remediation to keep erosion from starting.
TREEEEE LAWWWWWW
can't wait to see how this plays out
love hearing about tree law cases
Wow, all those beautiful trees gone, that is some serious money right there! The damage cannot be replaced in ones lifetime. Wishing you the best outcome.
Personally i would be devastated. You cant replace them. The entire environment is changed. Im so sorry.
The lumber is still yours, along with the value of the live trees and devaluation of the property. If they sell the lumber now, it is criminal theft. Go after the loggers too. You get paid for every aspect in this.
Pretty sure you were gonna use all those cedar for a huge log house. Now not possible. Make them pay for future gains also. Now you're 100 years behind.
Why cut my tree's down when I can cut yours down and still have mine. Some people. The neighbor is probably well connected if it's been over a year.
I feel your pain. We have a scumbag neighbour that built a shop
Partially on our property and now acts like we are unreasonable and shouldn’t harass him about it.
If it's 6 inches id say let it go. 6 feet? Cut a door hole into your half and go build a wall inside 😂
Free storage for your boom box that plays nothing but crying baby noises on repeat
Lien and charge rent.
My neighbor was clearing some land and when he got within 100 yards of the property line, he called me. We found the pins and agreed where the property line were and what trees he would harvest for me. No problem what so ever.
thats how it should go.
OMG this makes me sick! So sorry this happened. It isn't just the financial loss, it's the loss of wildlife and health from no longer having a restful forest to walk in and enjoy.
Clean them out.
Logging company should be held liable for just as much. Why do work like this without a current survey
350 cedars will have raked in a tidy haul of cash. Decades ago i was a saw mill engineer and I was reasonably conversant with prices paid for logs, especially mature healthy timber. In the country where I was living, that number of logs would bring in $350,000 before costs. Today? 7 figures easily given the species and the difficulties involved in buying timber for building projects.
Cedar when they cut this was ~$1000/mbf. None of those stumps shown have a 1000 bf per tree, those were tiny and low grade cedar. So, at most those trees ~$750/mbf at best. 350 trees by at most 500bf per tree ~--> Still over $100k and since the logging equipment was already there.... the costs were LOW for the logger/land owner.
I hope you are suing the logging company as well!!
Unless the neighbor logged it himself, the logger is the responsible party, not the neighbor.
No they both are.
@@giles-df9yu negative
@@tonysimons7218 probably so. However if the neighbor knew that they were cutting right up to the property line he was negligent, for not clearly marking that line.
@@outdoorslifesurvivecraft5078 it’s not the owners responsibility to mark the property line for a logger. If you hire someone to paint your house pink and give them you address and they paint your neighbors house instead is that your fault too??🤣
Loggers, foresters and timber buyers contract a timber deed which includes the property legal location & description.
Also they may have had a climbing crew come in prior to cutting to harvest the boughs. Cedar boughs are exceedingly valuable as well and require permitting. Boughs can bring 30 to 50% the value of the timber itself.
In Michigan the damages are triple
I am terribly sorry this happened to you! I hope you get every penny those trees were worth AND the cost of the view!
also, that area looks VERY much like where my parents are homesteading. Sadly, fire burned almost every tree they had a few years back.
Im about to go through the same ordeal here in Mississippi. We had a tornado slam us last year . The neighbor called a crew in to salvage down timber well the crew crossed the property line and took some huge white oak and red oak 30+ inches wide . I didn't know this till after deer season ended this year when out scouting.
I feel your pain. I had a dirtbag neighbor cut down a couple of my oaks, and just like you, I found them after deer season while rabbit hunting. I couldn't prove he did it, but he's the only one that had access as his property abuts mine. Guy ended up in prison from trying to diddle one of his foster children.
OMG.... I remember my mother's property after Katrina, she lost 3 oaks, they were at least 200 hundred years old. That was a insane disaster and it was still gut wrenching to see. Can't imagine how he feels about a filthy thief.
Thats how we got our homestead. My Uncle bought the 100acres about 25 yrs ago from the bank. The people who owned had it logged and got off on a neighoring property. They got sued and lost the property. When my Uncle bought it. The biggest tree left was about 8 inches.
We bought it from 3yrs ago. So now the woods are big and open and beautiful.
I hope everything works out for you like it did for us. Who knows you have most if not all your property paid for.
cool,put a parking lot and a McDonald's on it.
I'm sorry that happened to you. I would like to know how the neighbor justified his action.
me too.
This is completely and utterly devastating, I cannot imagine the anger and sadness you are going through right now, its the absolute absurdity of it all, just wow
It's not just the trees but they greatly devalued your property for a hundred years.
Not sure what kind of damages will be required but this is very serious. Better get personal protection in additional to all the lawyers you have on the case. It is not just the value of the trees but it has actually changed your property from what you were expecting to have. The real value was what you paid for not what the trees were worth. The damage is stunning!
Doesn't look accidental. He knows where his line is.
WOW ! a simple case of timber theft and u should be getting his property in compensation!! plus MILLIONS in damages WOW!! both companies were in on it....get ur money from them !! hire a VERY good lawyer!!! what bastards ....put the dude in jail !
Sorry that happened you, that musta really hurt! Stick it to them as much as you can!!!
So sorry this happened to you. I logged 20 in Issaquah in 1989 and my logger made a mistake and cut one of my neighbors cedar trees. The tree was worth about $1,000 at the time and I paid him $3,000 for my Logger's mistake. It was triple damages for an accidental harvest of a tree and I gladly paid it because that is what good neighbors do. Your trees might not be as big as mine were but still they were probably worth at today's prices over $400,000. With just even triple damages your neighbor owes you $1.2 million. Willfulness and negligence and legal expenses should make it way more. I hope you get some justice.
I feel your pain.
Washington state law requires that the perimeter of the area to be logged must be flagged (I had my 5-1/2 acre property in PO County logged so I could build) and I had to hire a forester to come out to flag the property before it could be logged. I specifically told the forester I wanted a 75' buffer of trees around my property near the road, which they adhered to. In order to do a responsible job the property owner has to hire a responsible forester (obviously your neighbor didn't). Also, a responsible logger wouldn't do any logging unless the area to be logged was properly flagged.
However, hiring a responsible logger can be tricky. The logger that logged my property took a lot of shortcuts and ultimately left a mess that I'm still cleaning up. He shoved all the stumps and slash from the clearing where the cabin was going up against the live trees so I had to hire another contractor to come out and pull the slash away from the trees so I could burn it. In the other areas of the property he just cut the trees, then limbed them and left the slash where it fell - I'm still cleaning that up after 5 years.
Looking back, I would not recommend either my logger or the forester who were best friends. The forester said he would check back during the logging operation to make sure everything was going according to plan, but he never came on site once after the logging began. When I complained about the mess the logger left, he stood up for the logger? - mind you I was paying the forester.
The original forester I wanted to hire didn't work in PO County (he had done a forestry management plan for me in Stevens County). I sent him videos of the site and he agreed the logger did a really shitty job and he wouldn't hire him to do any work for him.
Yes the owner, logger, and forester are all named in our suit.
make sure that your neighbor replaces the trees with something in similar size to prevent that entire hillside from collapsing during a heavy rainstorm
I’ve had a similar situation but we live so far from the property it’s hard to know exactly who’s done it. Massive trees over 150’ tall on a river property. They cut around all of the bases to kill the trees. We believe it’s the people who own a mansion on the hill above the property. Setup trail cameras but it’s already too late.
This exact thing happened to me I was blocking there view and it was what they used as a reason to cut my trees the problem there is no harsh penalty for this is 😢
Good you got the state in this. Here in west Virginia you cut on someone else's property you get find up to 10 times the tree value and pay 5 times value in court. Hope things work out for you.
If you win in court you can make him put all the trees back like they were. Way more than a few million bucks.
Please let us all know the outcome of your Lawsuit. You'll never get back those trees and the comfort those trees would have givren you and your family. I hope that Trespasser has to Pay Big time!
I can tell you from experience you can seek 3 times the value for each tree that was cut had a close call with that when I was working for a logger and we bought some trees and the guy next to him thought we were cutting on him and we ended up going to court and that's what the judge said if they would have been on his property he could have sued for three times the value for each tree
Here it's 3 times the trees value for cutting someone else's tree.
This whole situation bothers me so much. I live on the same type of property. There is ZERO excuse with this neighbor AND the contractor they hired. I hope you sue the pants off this these people. They destroyed your property; they can NEVER replace hundreds of years of tree growth; they can NEVER return your property back to orginal condition. I hope you get enough money to build your deeam home.
Oregon timber property owner here (400 acres not far from Eugene). Both property owners have a lot of responsibility for what happens on their land. The other property owner most likely hired loggers who did not have clear instructions. HardWayLearnt was (apparently) not around to stop what happened, and I am not seeing clear boundaries. The fence around our 400 acres is not in good shape but it clearly marks the property boundaries. My advice is to settle this out of court IMMEDIATELY...get the attorneys out of it NOW because they will just steal all the money. You will be doing GREAT if you settle on: 1) getting 100% of the value of your trees. Keep in mind that if you had to pay for harvest, you would only get 50% or so due to the high cost of timber harvest. 2) get them to replant the area they logged. 3) we always keep in mind how easily timber properties BURN.... another reason to get it out of court.
A friend of mine here in the UK had some trouble with one of his neighbours regarding his land. One day, he decided to visit his land to check on things and found out that one of his neighbours had taken some of his land and fenced it off. So, my friend and I decided to put the fence back to its original position, making sure that anything that belonged to the neighbour was put on their land. However, later that day, the police showed up at my friend's house and told him to return the land back to his neighbour. Unfortunately, my friend had to go to court to win back his own land.
The UK is fucked, mate. Rules run amok.
@@HANKTHEDANKEST" floating Anarchy is a better way!"
Gawd I don’t think I’ve heard of timber theft this bad ! Court is the best at this point to solve it !
I’ve done map and compass along with my GPS easy to find markers within 5-6 meters !
Make sure you take this to a court of records and sue in common law court for this Tresspass.