Why I'm No Longer Using Topaz DeNoise AI and How to use Lightroom Classic's Denoise AI
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- čas přidán 1. 06. 2024
- Honoring my commitment to advising you on the best tools, software and equipment for pet photography, in this video I’ll be showing you how to use the NEW Lightroom DeNoise AI feature, and explain why I’m no longer using Topaz DeNoise AI, with examples (of course!)
I’ll be taking you through a whole new process and workflow by using an image that was very recently shot in Quebec, at one of the highest ISOs that I’ve personally ever used in portrait photography, and show you just how good the new Lightroom DeNoise AI is at giving you crystal clear images in comparison to Topaz DeNoise AI.
I advise you to watch this video in 4K to ensure you can see the image quality and the huge difference in images from start to finish.
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Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
00:44 Topaz backstory
01:04 Dark image example
02:09 Previous process
02:42 Treating the image
03:50 Using Lightroom DeNoise
06:05 Topaz comparison
07:48 The final review
08:40 Image outcome
08:51 Lightroom and Photoshop for Beginners
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WHAT?! An influencer with honesty and transparency?? Thanks for the update Jess.
😂😂 I know right 🙈 As the saying goes "honesty is the best policy" 🙂
Thanks for another fab, informative video Jess. For anyone new to LR or PS, and it's scary the minute you open either of the apps, I do highly recommend signing up for either of the basic courses Jess has put together. They're awesome! Jess is a wonderful tutor, after completing the PS course I was immediately a lot more comfortable and confident editing images I had taken, straight away I had a better understanding of what the tools were, what they did, what they could do so I could put together a workflow that worked for me and what I wanted to achieve.
Thank you so much for your kind words 🫶🏻 we're glad you find the videos helpful and enjoyed the Photoshop for Beginners course 🙏
Great comparison. One thing I´ve found is that people are fixated on removing noise, when it would be better to reduce noise. A totallt noise free image (that had a lot of noise) looks worse when all of the noise is removed, than when you leave a small amount for a more natural look. IMHO of course.
Like you, a long-term user of both products. Mind blown.
No-one (to my knowledge) has ever produced such a simple but clinically accurate, analysis such as this. My compliments and sincere thanks.
Thank you for such kind words and I am glad you enjoyed this video 🙂🙏
Wow! I just tested your theory on a pic of mine and you are SO right. (I knew you would be!). Thank you for your amazing videos, you have taught me so much already. I need to checkout your basic courses.
Glad to have helped and pleased this worked well for you 🙂
I was having the same issue, found the denoise function in Lightroom a couple of weeks ago, but thank you for explaining is so well
Glad you found the Lightroom denoise function and hopefully this video proves useful for you 🤓
While I agree that it's greatly superior, it's a bit infuriating how long it takes to process. I can do 5-10 images in Topaz in the time it takes to do one in Lightroom. Currently I do important images in Lightroom, but general bulks in Topaz. Hopefully they optimize it in the future, because my system not out of date for it to take so long.
I can't say that we have any issues with the processing speed of the Lightroom Denoise in fact I would but I think this depends on the spec of the device you are using. If this changes and we begin to experience slow processing speeds we will update you 🤓
@@ThatPhotographySpotI'm back to using Topaz as it was taking forever for LR to process noise removal. Using an i9 PC with 64M RAM and is only a year and half old. Adobe needs to make their Denoise just as fast as Topaz DeNoise.
For a single image (portrait photographers) then yeah,this may be an easier workflow. For wedding photographers LR AI takes far too long - 800 images for a wedding using LR AI on RAW images isn't acceptable unless you have a top spec machine and good web connection - Topaz can process AI NR on JPGS making the batch processing at the end of a workflow much quicker. Additionally you also need to look at printing size, paper type and more importantly viewing distance. Images at ISO 12800 on Fuji matt paper at 6"x4" in an album are perfectly acceptable (I use nPhoto albums).
I too find that Topaz is much faster (maybe 10x faster), but Lightroom’s is better.
This is precisely my experience as well!
Another fantastic video Jess! Thank you!! I thought Topaz quit supporting both Sharpen and Denoise a few months ago so they can focus on Photo AI. I've been using the denoise function in LR a lot more myself. I think it appears more natural and is certainly more convenient.
It does seem that they are focussing more on the Photo AI side of things but it is a shame that this has led to almost a neglect of DeNoise but Adobe has pulled one out of the bag with their DeNoise in Lightroom Classic 🙂
Thank you so much for sharing this comparison! Around the time I was considering getting Topaz AI for DeNoising was when Adobe released their AI Denoise and I've been wondering if Topaz would be worth it or not, especially for furtography. Of coruse there are other videos on the subject, but given your previous support for Topaz it is good to know where you stand now. Thanks again for the honest review, I imagine it would've been easier to not make this video, but I'm so glad you did!
No worries 😊 Some people have said that the Lightroom DeNoise takes a little bit of time but we haven’t had that issue 😊 I think it depends on the spec of the device you are using 🤓 Let us know how you get on 🤓
@@ThatPhotographySpot I’ve been loving the denoise in LrC, definitely saved some very low-light shots that would’ve otherwise gone away!
Fantastic ❤❤❤❤ thanks for doing this.
Thank you, glad you like it 😊
Thanks Jess🙂
No worries, thank you for watching 🤓
Great video thank you. What do you think of topaz ai photo?
I would also love to know if you still use radial gradients now that ai masking is so good. Thank you!
Thank you for the kind words and to be honest I haven't tried Topaz AI photo so I can't comment on that 🙂
You’re spoiling me with rotties AND Dobermans today!!! 😍😍 I thought it was just me that was struggling with topaz denoise and that my new glasses that I never wear weren’t working because I don’t wear them 🤓
I also like leaving some noise in. I always remember way back in the day where Theo would be blue in my photos that a friend said a little noise makes things look more cinematic and I liked that.
That's a nice way of looking at it!
What a fab video Jess! And also what a stunning shot too, still forever in love with urban!
Lately I tend to not push ISO at all as topaz had been awful, or doing the denoise on a separate layer and then making it only 30% just to take the edge off. Glad it’s not me and it’s the programme 😅
Definitely going to have a go with lightroom denoise now! Especially with the days getting shorter!
Todays shoot in the fog was fixed between ISO 3600 and ISO 12800 so I had a panic and then remembered I have a tool I feel I can trust built in to LR 🥳🥳
@@ThatPhotographySpot OOO I’m excited to see the results of this shoot Jess! 😱
I tend to avoid anything over ISO 2000 with the A7Riii as I’m like 😬 but this gives me hope to try and push the ISO a bit more!
It was an MTog BTS shoot, so you certainly will!
@@ThatPhotographySpot oh hell yeah!! 👏 looking forward to it
Thank you for this video. I've been using Topaz products for several years. I felt that the PhotoAI still did a good job, but I couldn't believe that DeNoiseAI and SharpenAI were getting worse with every upgrade, not better. I still can't understand why, but I'll try using the Adobe Denoise now. I thought I was the only person who thought the earlier products did a better job.
We had used Topaz for a while but started noticing the deterioration in DeNoise AI and had a play with other options and found the DeNoise in Lightroom to give the best most consistent results 🤓
Thank you so much!!!!! Struggle with topaz blowing out highlights so this is good to know.
Have you tried Topaz AI? Or Dxo??
No worries! We haven't tried Topaz AI but have tried DXO and still prefer the results and consistency from Lightroom 🤓
What a difference, I live in Québec and I struggle a lot with noise :') Thanks again for the honest review! :)
Great to know im not missing out not buying topaz and that lightroom can outperform it. Thanks for the information! Is it best to do the noise reduction before editong in photoshop then?
For us we prefer using Lightroom so you aren't missing out there 🤓
Very interesting. The latest version of Topaz has such terrible artifact issues, I'm going back to Lightroom for these rescue missions. Super helpful video - thought I was going crazy.
Recently, I've been using Adobe DeNoise (Enhanced) more often than Topaz. I guess I've subtly picked up on this. But I do you use Topaz for old and low res images (increasing resolution). I believe Photoshop can do this too, I just haven't put enough time into learning how yet. Thanks for this informative video. It is my first time watching you.
Admire the honesty.
Thank you so much ... Honesty is the best policy 🙏🤓
It also looks like you didn't tune Topaz's settings. Photo AI and Denoise AI can be tuned to eliminate the issue you pointed on the dog's muzzle. I think you overstated the differences between Topaz and Adobe. There are times where it is easier with Adobe however. I don't think this is a completely fair comparison.
Even with tuning on all settings, the results remain the same in DeNoise AI specifically which is what we’ve recommended for years. Equine coats seem to come off worse consistently for some reason, it really doesn’t like short coats in very low light.
Thanks for testing! I have to admit I have also a 12800 ISO pic with similar look but had no chance to edit it. So now I will avoid Topaz and try LR.
Let us know how you get on with it 🤓
Just here to shout at you 😂
No i really love your videos ❤
I'm still going trough them all and i'm going to make myself a member because you have such an easy explaining way of making difficult things easy.
As a " new " official photographer , im taking things slow because of my muscle disease, but im gonna get there one way or the other😅 😅
Ahh thank you so much 🙏
Just one bit at a time and you will achieve your goals! And we would love to have you join the MTog family in the membership 🫶🏻
Thanks for this Jess. I've been disappointed in the direction of Topaz Labs and products for many years now. I recently use Denoise AI on an image and now will no longer use it. I still get use out of their Legacy Plugins and that's a direction I wish they hadn't departed. Perhaps this will become good feedback for them. *Subscribed*
Now worries and thank you for the feedback and your personal experiences 🤓 and for subscribing of course 🙂
The LR denoise I found sometimes leaves weird stripes, I am sure they will correct at sometime but for me I still prefer Topaz.
I can't say that we have experienced these weird stripes but if we do we will let you know 🤓
I found LR to slow. Topaz is a lot quicker. Still, I will try it again to see if it's any better. Sadly, we seem to become pixel peeps. Where it all has to be perfect. It's become a sad world. To many experts.
I think the speed of LR depends on the specification of the device you are editing on, we have never had an issue with the speed of LR 🙂 Let us know how you get on 🤓
For sure couldn't agree more Adobe have definitely done a fantastic job here and made it so easy for anyone to use in their workflow. I've switched from using DxO Pure Raw to this and its helped speed things up massively and produce better results. I have however recently purchased Topaz Sharpen AI which has DeNoise features built in too. I've found this helpful for photos ive slightly missed focus on or slow shutter and its saved a few lovely images i really wanted to include in galleries. But totally for noise Adobe has taken the lead i think. Good for the industry though as im sure this will push Topaz to develop further too.
same. I've found applying sharpen AI directly onto a unedited RAW also helps in some cases
It is great to hear that the Adobe function has sped up your workflow significantly 🤓 Time will tell in terms of Topaz lifting their game but for now we are set on Lightroom and can't see that changing anytime soon if I am honest 🙂
@ThatPhotographySpot yeah I agree think I'll be sticking with it too. I like not having the choice of all the different modes too.
Thanks for this comparison! In the day of constant "this CZcams video is sponsored by..." it's nice to see a review without financial incentives.
No worries and thank you for the kind words 🙂 Honesty is the best policy 🤓
Is there a reason that adding grain to the image, might make it feel more like "a real photograph" or does adding grain and denoising combat each other?
I have the Sony a7RV & like to use M-Raw & S-Raw, but they are demosaiced images. Because of that, Lightroom won't Denoise it. Is there any other software option?
There are other software options for denoise but honestly I don't use any other than lightroom
Great video! I was a huge supporter of Topaz and to be fair I haven't used it lately to even notice how bad it is because LR Denoise is just so good and actually speeds up the workflow because I dont have to wait for the image to load into another program. Fabulous as always Jess. Thanks so much for the time and effort you put into these videos
Thank you so much for your kind words 🙏 more than happy to create videos to help the photography community 🫶🏻
Topaz AI Photo and Denoise are very different! Switch to AI Photo and do the same test... AND make sure and use the different Modes and adjustments. Cheers
Both AI denoise programs have their limitations. In other words, they aren’t consistent from one image to the next. Each image we take is vastly different in so many areas, thus Adobe and Topaz may / will struggle depending on that image. I’ve had great results with Topaz, but also horrible results, again depending on the particular image. The same with Adobe AI denoise. It certainly has its limitations.
One other thing I’m curious about in your example is what setting did you use in Topaz? Standard? Clear? Low light? Severe noise? Each produces vastly different results.
I think to properly run this test you will need to use many different images, comparing all the settings in Topaz to the Adobe version.
Whilst results aren't consistent from image to image and realistically they never will be due to the variations within one image to another after using both for many images over a period of time the results were consistently better in Lightroom.
The file in the video was tested on all Denoise AI settings, from auto everything to custom everything. The result on this video was severe noise at its lowest possible setting, with original detail turned up to the very very top. It is simply no longer fit for purpose with animal coats. It was always hit and miss with horses, but for the last 3-6 months its been the same with dogs too. Maybe they'll fix it, but I'm not so sure!
@@ThatPhotographySpot Thank you for clarifying. I think both programs can only continue to improve going forward.
I use both and find some images better in LR and some better in Topaz so not sure its as clear cut based on just one image , there are so many variables in taking images that results in both being excellent tools . I still prefer Topaz overall but on images that look " overcooked " then I try and LR but still get good results from both
This wasn't based on just one image but to put a lot of images in the video wouldn't be engaging now would it 🙈 Yes, due to the difference in images some are not processed as well but as a whole, in our eyes, Lightroom performs better more consistently 🙂 but we all have our own preferences and that is fine 🤓
Use LR denoise at the start or end of edit? Most suggest at the start, including Adobe
It can only be done at the start if you’re moving into Photoshop - it’s raw files only at the moment 👍
@@ThatPhotographySpot I mostly stay in LR, but think I’ll use it at the start anyway on noisy images. Many thanks for the reply and great video!
I have a feeling that Topaz is focusing more on Photo AI. It still seems, at least to me, to work great. I'll have to check it out with an image later on.
It definitely seems that way. Let us know how you get on with your image 🤓
Thanks for being honest. 😊
You know what they say, "Honesty is the best policy" 🙂
Not just me that thinks Topaz is not as good as it used to be, thank you for that, interesting and helpful
You are not alone my friend. I am glad you found this video helpful 🤓
Ok..probably a touchy response but here it goes. I think as photographers we are relying to much on tech to fix our high iso images. Instead we might think about using better techniques. For example your particular image. If there isnt enough light consider options. Use your best lens for the situation (1.8 or 1.4)...and if thats not enough to get the iso into a workable file state...maybe its time to bring a small flash into the equation and blow out the background keeping your subject clean. I too was tempted to buying Topaz to save marginal photos, however spending more time and more cash on software for me i think cuts down on my ability as a photographer to properly problem solve. This is only taken from my viewpoint and not meant to put others down for using these products, I do some denoise in Capture One Pro. I just believe if the images is not saveable and doesnt represent our best effort than maybe just pass on saving it. I do appreciate your honest assesment of keeping your images real and true. Thanks for giving some insight on the software and your editing process.
This image was shot on an OCF workshop in Quebec City, but the students were working with all the strobes elsewhere for free shooting. Sometimes flash isn’t an option, and other times we don’t want to kill the ambient or create an imbalance. Both are ok if you know why you’re doing it, but not because they’re accidents or oops moments 👌
You are saying to do it after your basic edits. I been reading on various sites is to do it before you do anything else? I am a bit confused on this.
Before you take the image into Photoshop or do anything complex, yes, but after you’ve sorted your white balance and exposure 👌
Thank you! I thought it was just me and I was doing something wrong in Topaz.
Oh trust me, it definitely isn't just you 🤓
Any thoughts on DXO Raw 4? I'm not a fan of adobe forcing previous customer with perpetual license of lightroom have their legitimate serial terminated, due to "suspicion" of piracy... in otherwords wana force me to buy the monthly sub.
Thank you :)
DXO comes very close, in testing it is almost identical to Lightroom results 👌
@@ThatPhotographySpot Brilliant! thanks for your reply
So true
I thought it was me ( user error ) 😂 I pretty much stopped using topaz a couple of months after purchase, due to how it seems to ( well, as you explained ) it looks horrendous & takes away some of if not all the true image, to a load of mush,
I do drone photography & am fairly new but even I know good from terrible,
Occasionally if I’m working with layers on the odd occasion I may just run the sky through denoise AI depends tho, I try not to,
I’m glad it’s not me just noticing it 😅 thankyou
Edit for better words it’s overkill !!!
It definitely isn't just you so don't worry 🙂
I was wondering how ling it would take for you to put a video out covering this. Now I'm wondering how long it will take for Topaz to get ahead of the game again.
Hahaha well now you have it 🤓
DXO DeepPrime XD based on my tests retains the most detail and natural noise, next is Lightroom AI Denoise, and yes, I wouldn't recommend Topaz as well.
Thank you for this vid , though I usually export in tiff mode, and that wouldn't be an option for now.
No worries, we all have our preferred methods but maybe it is something you could have a play with at some point and see if it benefits you and your workflow in any way 🤓
Thank you very much for your answer. Best from Uruguay.
@@ThatPhotographySpot
XD brilliant. Not used jack**** in a while. I'll start using it again. Cheers 🥂
🤣 a British classic!
To be fair, Denoise AI has essentially been abandoned by Topaz and is not under further development. The replacement, Photo AI is better than denoise ever was but it still has its share of issues. I consider stopping using it every day but LrC is not able to batch these yet unless you use boilerplate settings. And honestly, I think the denoising is better than LrC's but I don't think it will be that way for long. There are threads on the Topaz community site where users are pretty pissed with the direction that Topaz is taking and I am of the same mind. I regularly process photos that are 40-50k ISO and have gotten usable images even at 102k ISO with Topaz. In the meantime, I and starting to work LrC's denoising into my workflow bit by bit.
True on all counts, but you can still buy Topaz DeNoise AI alone (at the time of recording and writing) and it is mentioned a lot in our content that viewers watch regularly) so hence it was covered here - if it was not available for purchase alone, we wouldn’t need to cover it 🤓
I've never been a fan of the AI version of Topaz. I still use Topaz Denoise and love it. Especially in PS when you can play with masks and opacity.
I'm happy that you still like Topaz DeNoise but it just isn't for us anymore and we don't use it at all in our workflows now. As they say, different strokes for different folks! 🙂
Time to switch to DXO which has the best Denoise by far.
We have had a play with and tried DXO but still preferred the results achieved in Lightroom 🤓 but thank you for your suggestion 🙂
Topaz moved away from Denoise AI some time ago. Maybe you should try their (more up-to-date product) Photo AI instead of canning an already obsolete product.
Thank you for your constructive feedback. As Topaz still sells and advertises their DeNoise product I wouldn't say it is obsolete and everything covered in the video still stands 🙂 Hope you have a wonderful day 🤓
I don't shoot raw. Maybe I should but I don't which is why I use TAI.
No worries, we all have our preferred methods of working 🙂
Not to be a Debbie a Donwner but why would someone submit a substandard image to a photo competition?
lol.. maybe there's a contest for best use of a de-noise program.
In some genres like wildlife, reportage/documentary, street, travel, some sports and environmental portraits including pets in urban or forest locations, there is absolutely zero alternative but to shoot at a higher ISO. All of these genres are likely to treat noise in an image for normal work or for competition. The image isn’t substandard because it required a clean up in this department as if it was, most wildlife photography would be exempt from competition with street and reportage closely behind, followed by the rest mentioned above and some others.
I wonder how photography ever existed before noise reduction software or cameras that allow you to shoot at ISO 8000+ Not sure how all these excellent wildlife, Landscape photos ever got captures in the old Net Geo Magazine, Street photography in LIFE Magazine,, How it was possible to shoot at the Olympic games, F1 races, etc. Here is my theory, photographers had a better skillset. They had a understanding about light, they knew their cameras and they knew how to use them. Today you use Z9, Canon, Sony, Leica, autofocus, day light balanced, in camera stabilization, $3K+ lenses and you still can't get a good photo out of your camera? Now you need AI to fix stuff? Yikes. Maybe it is not software that needs to be addressed. I do thank you for your explanation but you should do better @@ThatPhotographySpot
I thought i was just using it wrong 😂😂
I think many felt/feel that same way! Lightroom classics denoise is the way forward 🤓
Are you now just promoting your tutorials in lightroom? Why didn't you use the slider for less sharpening and the "recover detail" tool in Topaz then give a comparison. You do have a fair amount of control in Topaz denoise.
No not at all. I can promise you that nothing, prepped or not, gave a result clean enough for a base pass in competition in Topaz. Either there was noise left in the background in patches, which is a no-no, with some hair detail remaining on the subject, or there was this result, with mushy hair detail and a green tint to the file.
The file was tested on all Denoise AI settings, from auto everything to custom everything. The result on this video was severe noise at its lowest possible setting, with original detail turned up to the very very top. It is simply no longer fit for purpose with animal coats. It was always hit and miss with horses, but for the last 3-6 months its been the same with dogs too. Maybe they'll fix it, but I'm not so sure!
How on earth did you get to "promoting your own tutorials in LR"? She very clearly explains how to use the tool in this video so no need to go any further. She also says if you're new there are many videos on you tube including her own thereby making the "purchasing" of tutorials unnecessary if you're willing to wade through hours of footage. Jess' courses are concise and dont leave you with questions requiring you to keep searching for another video. If you do have questions she is always available to answer them......most certainly not like other courses that leave you hanging once you have spent the money. With all due respect, lift up that rock and go home.
Why?! Why is this necessary?? If you don't care for the promotion at the very, very end of her video, just simply unsubscribe and go about your day. Why the need to attack? People like you are the reason there is less and less valuable content available FOR FREE on CZcams. The good gurus no longer want to subject themselves to your bologna.
@ThatPhotographySpot thanks for that reply, I wasn't trying to be nasty as one person has accused me of. Of course, you have a right to promote your business. I was trying to clarify the results of a dedicated to "denoise" programme that can be a one off purchase with paying for upgrades if one wants against a totally different comprehsive photo editing software that is subscription only.
I will delete my comment if you reword yours. We’re extremely protective of Jess.
But why are you comparing to Topaz DeNoise AI, which is old, instead of comparing with Topaz Photo AI, which is the new and updated software? I have both of them, in addition to LR - LR is OK, but the workflow, especially for working with many images, is quite a lot better in Photo AI.
Because you can still buy Topaz DeNoise AI alone (at the time of recording and writing) and it is mentioned a lot in our content that viewers watch regularly) - if it was not available for purchase, we wouldn’t need to cover it 👍
Yes, Lightroom denoise is great, but it takes forever to process.
DxO PL 7 Takes the 1 place, PS/LR Detail the 2 place, DxO Pure Raw the 3 place. Topaz is so far behind.
Thank you for your feedback and thoughts on this. We still prefer the results and consistency received when using Lightroom at this moment but we all have our preferences and that is absolutely fine 🙂
Adobe noise reduction is great. It just takes too long.
We don't find it takes any longer than opening the image in other software but this would depend on the spec of the device you are editing on 🤓
@@ThatPhotographySpot 1 minutes 45 secs for Topaz Phot AI. 8 minutes 45 secs for an 8256x5504 pixel image.
With all the overprocessed unnatural looking images these days, a little noise is a clue that not a completely AI generated image.
Good info but this video is 8 minutes too long.
Thanks for your opinion but we disagree. Removing three years of endorsement for a product requires explanation and examples, and showing how to use an alternative usually takes around 5 minutes depending on the prep 🙌
Topaz has always been shit but you recommended it anyways. But as long as cashs flows in who cares I guess
Wow, what a baseless assumption, you couldn’t be more wrong.