NieR: Automata critique
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- čas přidán 9. 07. 2024
- Kat breaks down all the ways in which she was disappointed by NieR: Automata. Video contains spoilers for NieR: Automata and Ex Machina.
Patreon: patreon.com/pixeladay
Twitter: @pixel_a_day
Transcript: bit.ly/pixeladay_nierautomata
Thank you to Kevin (@theArcadologist)
Arcadology: / @arcadology
Pixel Lit: pixellitpod.com
My two-hour chat with NieR superfan Socratetris: • NieR Automata Apologet...
The Saga Begins (0:00)
Part 1: Story and Character (0:34)
Part 2: Structure (12:01)
Part 3: Themes and Ideas (18:35)
Part 4: Portrayal of Women (29:00)
Part 5: Gameplay, Innovation, Lore, Madness, End (34:26) - Hry
I love this game but it's refreshing to hear an opinion about it that isn't simply, "This game is an existentialist masterpiece!" Some very valid and thoughtful points.
Thanks, that means a lot!
Socratetris is where you wanna look if you want a true Nier fan. I guess Clemps is good too but he’s not a hardcore philosophy nerd like Socratetris.
the start of every chapter being repeated is such a funny touch for a vid essay of nier automata, chefs kiss!
It's 4 AM. I had intended to put this on my 'recently watched' list so I could watch it later. But here I am, an hour later, typing out my comment to say: thank you for this video. It was a bit shocking to find another person who had nearly the exact same experiences as I did, who played through the whole game wondering when it would magically show it's brilliance. Your points were well explained and deeply cathartic to hear, as I had so many of the exact same thoughts as you did, though I've had much more difficult time putting them into words.
One idea I want to bring to the table is that Nier: Automata feels very... Otaku. What I mean is that it comes from a subculture that is defined by consuming everything there is about a particular piece of media, where something is never just 'a show' or 'a game,' it's a whole product line of different things, much like what you see in a lot of anime or manga targeted at obsessed Otaku. It bares a lot of the hallmarks of something that comes from that sort of space: the casual fanservice, the on-the-nose writing, the over-the-top action sequences, etc. And so it expects a degree of obsession, that you're going to look into all the little details and make all the connections to Nier and read all that side material. This, I think, is where fans of the game get lost: they've read all the side stories and done all their research and forget how bare-bones the actual story is. It is, in many ways, a video game version of Otaku-target anime, complete with pretenses of class and casual sexism.
And that, to me, really encapsulates everything wrong with the game. Like you said, the game never really examines any of it's preconceptions, it just has robot soldiers in fetish wear like it's completely normal. And if the game can't get past the assumptions of the niche subculture it comes from, how can it say anything about the human condition?
Oh thanks, it’s extremely validating to get comments like yours 😊 It definitely feels like a game that people who mostly only consume anime and games would find deep. I say this as someone who was a huge anime fan for a decade. I know that subculture well, I loved it as a 14 year old and I’m thoroughly tired of it as an adult 😅
….You literally had a conversation with socratetris about this but you still promote the “facts” in this video that have already been proven wrong. Man Socratetris defending you by saying you don’t have malicious intent against this game is wrong.
@@myusername3689 The very fact that you think that you think that her viewpoint and opinion and viewpoint has been "proven wrong" means you understand basically nothing about literary criticism or philosophy. A key idea in both disciplines is the idea that there are multiple different ways of viewing something. Claiming she has "malicious intent" is just being a rabid fanboy, and rather contrary to the whole idea that the game is philosophical in the first place. Philosophy has always been an argumentative subject (just look at all the ancient Greek writers and how many jabs they take at each other,) so attacking criticism is deeply ironic for a (presumable) fan of such a "philosophical" game.
@@Rogue2316 Not the user you are replying to, but man your reply comes across as absolutely pretentious, I have watched that video they are taking about and yes a huge bulk of Kat's criticism is poorly researched and in fact is in the game, no one is talking here about the philosophical aspect my dude, In fact as pointed out in the pinned comment Kat literally says ''I don’t have a thorough knowledge of the specific philosophies that are apparently being referenced''. Your reply comes across as even more misunderstood after that.
@@wolfi9180 Admittedly, I was very frustrated when I wrote that, so that definitely bled into that. And yeah, it was really arguing against a straw man. It's just so frustrating to see legitimate criticism be dismissed as "you just don't get it." Like, bro, this is a game that goes out of it's way to excuse panty shots and objectifying it's female cast, we're not talking about high art here. I'm not saying I disagree with your criticism of my statements, far from it. I just want to say they come from a place of frustration due to fans claiming the game is one amazing high art, yet dismissing criticism applied to any art or media.
Finished the game on Saturday night. I actually hate-finished it. I couldn't not finish at least routes A-C because I was under the impression it was going to blow my tiny mind.
It didn't.
Instead, it left me feeling the way you have largely just described in such a perfect way.
Thank you for putting this together. It summed my feelings up perfectly. I've just accidentally ended up on another video describing how the ending to N:A is the greatest and most groundbreaking ending to any game ever, ever, ever the gushing comments just had me shaking my head, baffled. I genuinely don't get why this game is so lauded and so highly acclaimed.
But the fact that at least a few people (including those in the comments) feel largely the same sense of confusion and bafflement about why this deeply tedious, uninteresting, uninspired game that lacks subtlety and nuance, and has the depth of a puddle, is so highly regarded is enough for me.
I've subscribed just based on this phenomenal critique.
Edit: having glanced at a few of the comments, it's very telling that superfans of this game (& the game dev) are highly sensitive to any form of critique or criticism and usually just respond with abuse and/or telling you you're unfollowed/blocked.
I critiqued the game at nier automata reddit , and man they almost ate me alive , really toxic fans .
If someone is angry for criticism, it is usually because they have no counter points .
@@soy_boy69 you're braver than me! They're so defensive on the NA Reddit. Can't take even constructive criticism
Thanks for the comment! I'm glad some of us over here made you feel validated :) There are a lot of fantastic N:A fans too and quite a few them have left comments which I've really appreciated. The toxic fans give them a bad name unfortunately.
Having a lot of sad moments or just a genuinely good soundtrack that will probably make you feel something even by just hearing it without knowing any context are both elements that on their own are usually enough to trick people into thinking they're experiencing something that is "really mature and deep". Now imagine what happens when you make a game that tries so hard to make you cry every two minutes (without actually saying anything, mind you, because Yoko Taro couldn't be bothered to write any actual on-screen relationship between the characters) and also has good music.
So, the night before I released this video I had an excellent and enlightening conversation with NieR superfan Socratetris (link in the description - it was seriously a really fun and productive conversation, what a smart and lovely person) which gave me a new perspective on the game and my own opinions on it. I’d like to share some of those here:
Characters/story: Although he agreed with me that a lot of the writing is very on-the-nose, he was actually able to glean a lot more than I did about the characters from reading into subtle dialogue cues and finding hints in side quests within the game which I hadn’t discovered. Ultimately I’m still not a fan of the game's storytelling style, or the decision to hide away fairly essential story and character information in hard to find places and side quests.
Themes and ideas: In his infinite wisdom and philosophical learned-ness, Socratetris was able to draw out a million and one intellectual/philosophical ideas from the game that I was not able to. I’m not even going to try and disagree or say they’re not there, because I don’t have a thorough knowledge of the specific philosophies that are apparently being referenced. In this regard, I am 100% willing to concede that there may be meanings or ideas that I missed. One that I was able to comment on was feminist theory which I am fairly familiar with, and my opinion is that although the game references Simone de Beauvoir, its woefully voyeuristic representation of female characters shows me that as much as the game may reference feminist theory, it does not have much respect for (or perhaps understanding of) it. This does lead me to wonder whether the game is actually doing justice to the other philosophies it is referencing, or whether it’s a patchwork of superficial references with no real understanding of the ideas. I really can’t speak to that - at this point I’m skeptical but open-minded.
It seemed that part of the reason Socratetris was able to pull more meanings from the game than me was that he is intimately aware of Yoko Taro’s previous work, themes and references and this really helped him to make sense of NieR: Automata. I am now more keenly aware (and maybe I should have emphasised this in the video) that I was appraising this game as a newbie to Yoko Taro’s work. I can now appreciate more that previous experience with Yoko Taro’s games may be hugely helpful in making sense of this game. At the same time, this also doesn’t fare well for Yoko Taro and Yosuke Saito’s intention to make the game accessible to newcomers.
My views on female representation in the game haven’t changed. “But 2B waves the camera away” - this is for me a very tokenistic gesture. If you think Yoko Taro truly did not want you to perv on 2B and A2, do you honestly think he would have designed them to look the way they do? The camera-wave only shows that Yoko Taro is aware enough that what he’s doing is “bad/naughty”, but doesn’t care enough to just not do it. Self-awareness is not subversion.
Yoko Taro's works are really hard to get into I think. His games are all really flawed in many different ways. However I can also see something that I sadly don't see enough in video games, wich is individuality. I'm sorry if I'm creating this big narrative of game auteur or something but I really feel like it.
Also academical feminist point of view of his games would be something that I would love to watch.
Damn, I'm really itching to write something about sexualised pervy designs in games. And about death cults. I guess this essay stirs thought is what I'm saying!
Also very nice editing, for a small channel. Either you already do editing professionally or you have some helpful friend?
@@thisguyfromtherenaissance934 I really see nothing wrong with looking at games from the "auteur" perspective, at least when treating the term loosely and remembering that games are team-made (but films are as well). Then again I've recently seen some vid about "the myth of auteur game designers" or something, it's probably somewhere in my "watch later", gotta give it a listen.
@Ryan Vetter i really don't get why people keep blaming yoko taro for 2Bs design when he isn't a character designer and doesn't even really cares that much? It probably was like that: yoko told what ideas character supposed to express, artist drew a pretty girl, and yoko said "nice" and that's it
I'm not a specialist of either, but calling a character Pascal or Engels, and the passing reference to their writings, creates only the illusion of depth.
I think you're giving this Socratetris guy too much credit, I think your initial feelings are spot-on
As someone who loved Nier Automata but doesn't think it's a masterpiece everyone thinks it is I'm glad you made this review. You put to spotlight a lot of issues that both people who liked and hated this game have but were ignored because of every other "THIS GAME IS A PHILOSOPHICAL MASTERPIECE AND IF YOU THINK OTHERWISE YOU'RE JUST A IGNORANT FOOL" Reviews and compliments that gets thrown at it without actually thinking about the story for a second and thinking how good actually it is.
You deserve a lot more subs.
Glad you enjoyed it!
This summarizes my feelings on NieR: Automata quite well (though I didn't pain myself to push through it as much as you did). It's difficult to make a negative critique without sounding like you're just complaining or hating, but this threads the needle exceedingly well. Great work!
Thank you! That means a lot!
Imagine this:
You go to a highly acclaimed restaurant and the food is utterly bland. Upon mentioning this to another guest they tell you that need to go to a different place to get certain sauces and side dishes and bring them with you to the restaurant to mix with and accompany the dish. You follow the given instructions and yes, the eating experience is improved but you wonder why it wasn't served in this better way in the first place.
Thanks for the chuckle! Some knowledgeable people have let me know though that some of that stuff was in the game - just in side quests I hadn’t done!
FINALLY AN ACTUALLY SENSIBLE CRITICISM IN THIS GOD AWFUL COMMENT SECTION! THANK YOU SO MUCH!
You deserve a sub just for that alone.
You singlehandedly made my day better.
Man, that's dumb do you seriously Have to do the sidequests to make the game experience "better"? And follow how to play it to understand it. Man that doesnt sound like a fun game at all. Side quests should just be fun side activities and side stories not locking the main story away. Jesus this game is a waste of time 😕
I found the praise for it utterly baffling for much of the reasons you describe, so it's refreshing to see this. I find that I keep getting burned when I try to engage with anime-esque stuff and go in expecting a deep story exploring interesting themes.
Even putting aside certain dialogue conventions and character tropes that aren't my cup of tea even in stuff I do like, I often run into things I consider large issues if the story is meant to be serious and engaging, such as lack of cohesion, jarring tonal shifts into zany or poor-taste comic relief moments, hammy melodrama that's unintentionally funnier than the comic relief moments, nonsensical "deep" speeches, and endless filler. Some of that's still a matter of taste of course, but I find nonsense and extreme filler particularly hard to defend.
Automata managed all of this in spades while also insisting on wasting my time at every given opportunity (could have allowed saves at any time, could have cut almost all of Route B, etc.), leaving me in an extremely unreceptive mood when I finally reached the bits and pieces that did engage me.
Fair play to him for being open about it but it doesn't surprise me Yoko Taro wasn't putting much thought into the themes, since the one about the nature of consciousness and whether machines can have it was constantly undermined by the fact that you're already playing as machines with consciousness. They might have a different name and look but they're still essentially the same kind of being as the ones they're fighting - consequently, how can you have any big revelation about consciousness? I don't recall any self-reflective moments where the androids questioned whether they indeed were conscious in the first place, which would have been the interesting route to take this. As it stands, you're just seeing them constantly ask a question that has no intrigue because they're already a walking talking answer to it from the very start.
I also absolutely loathe "it's all in side materials" as a defence for why a story is actually genius. If it can't stand up within a piece of media without being propped up by external pieces, as far as I'm concerned the story has failed.
It's overall frustrating just because you can see the threads of something with the potential to be really interesting, but the implementation fucks that up at every opportunity.
This has to be the most accurate review of this game. I was constantly questioning myself if I was playing this properly because according to everyone else, this game is a masterpiece. Imagine my confusion 33+ hours in. I still haven’t finished the game but at least now I know there’s nothing to look forward to.
In regards to the your enjoyment of the combat you reminded me of my brother. We would play the same game side by side and I noticed he would ever use one move over and over. I asked him "why don't you try using all the other moves that look much cooler?". He said "it doesn't matter cus this gets the job done." However in my game play I found enjoyment in making the attacks look as flashy cinematic and seamless as possible. Some people just play differently but I wouldn't say combat is bad.
I believe it depends on the sofistication of the gameplay.
Just wanna say, i’ve rewatched this video multiple times since it’s so good. It’s also very validating since the majority of the internet treat this game like it has the best writing in any game ever, so i felt kinda crazy and alienated that i didn’t feel the same way. I couldn’t really put into words what I don’t like about it but you did that perfectly for me. I think another reason why I couldn’t get into this game is because i’ve recently felt like I grew out of anime after spending most of my childhood and teenage years loving it, so this style of “anime” storytelling just felt overdone and annoying to me, a bit sad that I stopped loving something that was a huge part of my life but that’s part of growing up it seems.
Keep up the great work! Really want to check out your outer wilds video but im currently playing it and don’t want to get spoiled lol.
Oof I feel you about growing out of anime, me too ❤️ Good choice, don’t let outer wilds get spoiled for you! Thanks for your lovely comment!
Now I know what I was missing when I dropped the game after 3-5 hours and why I just could not see what other people saw in the game. Thanks for doing what I could not in order to see what was behind it all.
I'm glad my suffering is being appreciated
I didn't play Automata, just the first NieR game, and a lot of this criticism can honestly apply to the first game too. It's refreshing to hear someone that doesn't sing the absolute praise of Taro's work... as much as it can be enjoyable, it's still such wank, among the fanservice/outfits that has no place in a character that questions their life as a being worthy of respect and love (Kainé and 2B, A2...), the hyperbolic, nihilistic events in the games... I think you could pinpoint his faults as a writer very well.
I feel like Fire Emblem: Three Houses did the "three playthroughs" thing infinitely better but got zero credit for it because it wasn't constantly trying to remind you how deep it was for doing it
Nier automata never did that what are you talking about
@@Taco_Thief repetition is a bitch sometimes
@@notarealspy4090 it's not like the game is forcing you to play more and it's not reminding you how deep it is for doing it this commenter is delusional
FE 3 House's literally has 12 chapters ve the exact same story line
@@Taco_ThiefIt does always hits you over the head with its teenage philosophies. I mean the video already addressed all this.
A very thorough and well-structured review. The criticism is well deserved. Impressive that you made it through to the end!
I'm glad you covered the character design too; I haven't seen anyone else talk about this aspect.
Thank you so much for watching and commenting, I’m glad you enjoyed it!
I've felt for so long I was missing something about this game and have felt guilty leaving it unfinished in my back log.
This essay finally feels like the permission I need to set the ambition of finishing this game to rest. Honestly, thank you for making this.
That’s really nice to hear. Thank you!!
Play the game. This essay misses so much it's either obscenely oblivious or deliberately dishonest.
I really enjoyed Nier: Automata but I can't disagree with any of your analysis. I had to rely on the wiki a lot more than I should have needed to and was also pretty uncomfortable with the character design. I asked myself several times why androids would wear high heels in combat, and why they would wear the skimpy outfits when they clearly have their armour. It was a thread that kept coming once I started pulling on it.
I'm sure you thought about it a ton more than Yoko Taro did 😆 I'm glad you're enjoying the channel!
Played nier: automata a while ago with no prior experience with the nier franchise, and thought it was pretty good. I then played the nier: replicant remake and was blown away at how much more enjoyable the universe, characters, and plot was as opposed to automata, and then I got disappointed knowing how much greater automata could have been as a sequel.
Nier automata is a sequel tho lol
@@matthewlugo2417 that’s what I’m saying. As a sequel, it couldn’t hold up to replicant/gestalt
@@ghostshark680 heres the thing tho, i think both games are masterpieces, cause they both tackle the same story but in different times and different context, and i think the way automata ends handles it better then replicant cause its makes you the player decide to end the cycle of violence, help someone you might not even know or like. The game lets you be the hero by sacrificing a part of yourself to do so, its selfless act of love and compassion that is all humans. Nier has a strong message but i think automata message is much louder and much stronger, through the ups and downs, the war, the hate, the prejudice etc, we are all human and are capable of love and understanding. We dont have to kill eachother, were the same even if our skin is different
I prefer replicants game story structure due to the side quests not having as big of, if any impact on the interpretation of the story. You just play the game and progress normally and it shows you everything you need to know in order to get it, basically avoiding Automata’s problem of a lot of people not understanding the story because they were never advised to carefully analyze side quests.
Automata to me was a game of low lows and high highs. The soundtrack, visuals and scenes produce memorable moments to me, and I completely understand that if there are no moments that really hit home the grating elements of the game overwhelm the player. I think some people brush over the pretty glaring problems of the game due to the fact that they got something good out of it, when in fact any recommendation of this game should come with massive caveats.
I agree, thanks for your comments!
Surprised to see this video only has 6349 views; it's well-written, and so much effort went into the editing. I haven't listened to the conversation with Socratetris yet, so maybe I'm jumping the gun here; but one thing I want to say is that I don't feel that simply referencing philosophies is deep or meaningful. "Wide as an ocean, but an inch deep" is the vibe I get, and I have that same critique with the latest FF14 expansion, the story of which was also acclaimed by fans and critics. A story doesn't get points just for namedropping or referencing a million philosophies; stories get points for actually exploring it in its text.
Oh boy your comment sure aged well. Socratetris pretty much debunks all the points you made in this comment besides the opinion ones(you can’t debunk an opinion). He has made a ton of videos besides his conversation with Pixels video that goes more in depth about what Nier Automata actually does with Philosophy. But I’m gonna be honest, it’s not your fault you didn’t get it the first time. Yoko Taro is an infamous troll especially with automata so he does pretty much everything in his power to make sure newbies don’t find all the pieces the first time. To me it kind of sounds like gatekeeping to make sure only the most dedicated people can get access to the whole view.
@@myusername3689this comment did not age well, a mile wide and an inch deep is the perfect way to describe it; everyone mentions how he basically wasn’t even trying on this game and he didn’t put much real deep thought into it and that is right, it’s TikTok 14 year old, want to sound smart, philosophy. No real substance here, Very disappointing.
Agree with pretty much everything here. I went in with high expectations because of the praise and because I love the first game, but then it quickly fell apart from the very beginning.
-The fairly long segments with no saving.
-Half the 2D-movement sections feel pointless and annoying that they're 2D.
-The level system is a bad, lazy way to create difficulty/progression and block you off from certain things.
-RNG chip drops that you have to grind for if you want a really good build(nearly required for one of the DLC arenas).
-Feeling like I might permanently miss some things because the game doesn't have chapter select from the beginning.
-Sexualization that feels pointless and out of character.
-Route B could probably be combined with route A with small changes.
-The main characters are flat with hardly any actual character or development shown.
-A lot of the Yorha feel like normal people, yet they crap all over that with the most nonsensical thing I could imagine in the beginning of route C and one of the top secret archives.
Nier Replicant(Or Nier Gestalt which is the one I played) is better in nearly every way in my opinion.
-An incredible story twist.
-Main characters I could empathize with and want to succeed.
-Nice little towns of people that feel more real.
-Fun banter between characters.
-No RNG stat boosts, it just has small stat boosts you unlock permanently and select a few of.
-The leveling system doesn't effect too much.
-The magic feels cooler and more dynamic to combat than the Pods.
-Like Automata, it has you play through a few times for different endings, except you start at the halfway point, it doesn't take long to run through, and one of those playthroughs COMPLETELY changes your perspective on the story even though it's the same events.
I tried and failed three times to get into this game after having it constantly recommended. Frankly I'm glad to hear such a thorough takedown from someone who's opinions seem to often mirror my own, now I feel more confident in shelving this one good! I'm also happy to know that I don't live in a world in which sexy anime maid/fighter jets are hiding an unmissable piece of brilliant sci-fi writing.
I don't take Nier Automata as three different stories, nor even an attempt at three different stories. It is just one story, but told in this weird unique wayu of three playthroughs and fake out false enc credits.
it's more 2 acts that you play the first twice as two different povs.
@@megamike15 Ya yu are exactly right. The pacing would have been alot better when 9s runs off in the first campaign, it let you do his part right there. Interwoven stories like in Godfather 2.
Great summary. Bought game in 2024 due to seeing the hundreds of reviews saying it’s the greatest game of all time, played 70 hours now to get thru ending E plus a spattering of rando finishes, and was feeling I missed everything as I felt nothing and seemed like a bunch of random weird stuff crammed together. Played DS, DS3, ER, Horizon ZD and Horizon FW and was blown away by stories, where this felt utterly incomplete…or I missed everything. Glad there are others with same experience.
Yeah after i finished this game i was like “If regular nihilism is that life has no purpose, then this game made me a video game nihilist. Playing this game and all games has no purpose and now i’m depressed.”
I landed on this video while searching for a fast, spoiler-y breakdown of the game's story since I was unable to suffer through more than the first segment of the game. So first, I would like to thank you for your suffering so the rest of us don't have to! Second, I want to thank you for putting into much more comprehensive and eloquent terms, criticisms that I had about the game but was not able to express well. Watching your essay was like having a lot of puzzle pieces of a complete criticism of this game finally fall into place. Third, using Ex Machina as a backboard for criticisms of the game's character design blew me away because I love that movie so much, and yet never once thought about how brilliantly damning the comparison is of Nathan's and this game's designs.
tl;dr: great essay!
Thank you so much for the kind words 🥰
This pretty much summarizes my feelings about the game (though I wasn't patient enough to play through all 30 hours).
So glad to see I wasn't alone in my disappointment! Finished the game a couple of days ago and found myself perplexed at how many people claimed it was touching to the deepest level and left them thinking about some profound existential stuff. For someone who has barely ever pondered over nihilistic and existentials matters such as the existence of free will, the meaning of life, the souce of consciousness, or the grim reality that one day, pretty soon on cosmic scales, you will cease to exist, this game might be a catalyst to fire up your neurons on such thoughts. But by the time I played it I had already weathered through my fair share of existential crises on many of those topics, so NieR: Automata (which in the best case only touches on them at a surface level) failed to move me on that regard. I've also read about several somehwat opposing philosohical theories being present in the characters of the game, mainly A2 and 9S towards the end of the game, but I never cared about their characters since they were so poorly fleshed out, so I never paid much attention to whatever their actions were supposed to represent.
Ultimately, the lore behind the game is a million times more interesting than the game itself. After finishing it I spent hours reading about all of the events that happen prior to the start of the game. The White Chlorination Syndrome, Project Gestalt, Replicants, how humanity was doomed by a man trying to save what was dear to him, how Emil had to fight the aliens alone when they invaded, why and how project YoRHa was created, and many, many more. One that stuck with me was "A Much Too Silent Sea", which narrates the story about a lone healer type supposedly stationed in a facility deep in the ocean, who accidentally discovers she'd been living in a lie (won't spoil it here in case anyone who sees this wants to read it).
We can only hope the anime that's been announced will have a more compelling story with properly developed characters, though I've had the misfortune of watching plenty of animes that had the same problem of wasted potential that plagued this game. Oh, and it's being made by A-1 Pictures so don't get your hopes too high. One can only wish a story like this could be brought to life by the likes of Bones, Sunrise or Shaft, but hey, at least we didn't get Toei Animation!
At least you got some stuff out of the supplemental material! 😅 I liked Small Flowers myself. Glad you enjoyed the video!
My problem is with the story especially Pascal story I thought children killing themselves after learning what fear was didn't make sense it came out of nowhere. Think about it, Pascal and his village lived as pacifists and since the machine village got infected and got destroyed and pascal wanting to protect thr children resorts to violence. I personally think it would've been better If rather than the children killing themselves Pascal in his anger destroys the machines and because of the debris it befall and the children killing them. pascal would have a revelation about how he turned into the very thing he hated a killing machine and asks to get his memories deleted by a2. Just as a2 is about to delete the memories, out of all the debris one machine child comes out and pascal finds a spec of hope through the surviving child.
I think it would've made more for a powerful message about not forgetting your mistakes and learning from them to make a better future and hope.
@@razzy9172 They hadn't just learned what fear was; Pascal specifically laments having chosen to teach them about it in the past.
Great video! Gotta say, it helped me with structuring my own thoughts about this game. Personally, I'm more interested in gameplay as opposed to story. So I could describe why I didn't like the game mechanics. All that constant switching between genres ended up making it a"Jack of all trades, master of none". But the story part kinda left me puzzled.
Because everyone around me was praising this "ultimate humanist tale", "a profound moment in gaming history" and I was just looking at an obviously fan-service character doing banal things. It just felt empty. Kinda made me doubt my own perception, as if I was missing something.
One thing that irks me a lot in conversations about this game is that people ignore that references =/= deep exploration of the subject matter. Just because an NPC is named Pascal, it does not make it a thesis about the conflict of God and free will. It's just a reference. It seems to me that a lot of perceived depth of this game is just surface-level nods to greater topics, that are never explored in full. Instead, the narrative constantly switches to something else, to some new cool thing, to a different spectacle.
Please, for the love of god, stop watching review videos. 99% of automata review videos are made by fake fans who don’t know jack shit about the story and what you actually need to do to fully understand it. (You probably won’t like the tasks required to completely piece the story and characters together because a lot of it is hidden in side material unlike Replicant. I prefer replicant for this reason.)
Heck, I can use the religion part as an example of how the game isn’t what fake fans are trying to push. The whole point of machines with religion is to show that they have a very shallow understanding of religion but are going to recreate it regardless despite the obvious problems that it’ll pose. It’s showing that thousands of years after humanity is extinct, the remaining living entities know nothing about those humans and because of that, they’ll repeat many of the mistakes that a primitive humanity would’ve done ages ago. It doesn’t say anything about religion itself because it isn’t even supposed to.
Just rewatched this and it's still an amazing video, happy holidays!
Whoa, this is really generous thank you so much!!
One thing that disappoints me more than anything is the combat. Its one thing that many reviewers said was fantastic and akin to devil may cry or metal gear revengence, but i find it hard to agree. It kind of seems like it has depth when you first play, but the more you get into it, the more it becomes obvious that stats matter more than the flashy combos and abilitys. It ends up feeling much more like an rpg by the end and player skill just doesn't matter, even on hard. You can just equip an op chip set and mash light attack to win.
I just wanna say that I am really glad that this review exists. You must have spent a lot of work on this video and it shows. I was really looking forward to playing this game, especially after finishing Replicant (which had some very questionable and repetitive design choices, but a much more interesting story, themes and characters). This game was a huge disappointment and I felt like I was going crazy, because everyone I've met said that this was their 11/10 deep philosophical masterpiece GOAT. I completely agree with you that the themes were explored in a horribly shallow way and the referential stuff like naming all their robots philosopher names doesn't really add to the depth or anything. But I'm getting off-topic, thank you once again for the video and have a pleasant day.
Lovely comment ❤️ Thank you!
Calling it a philosophical game is misleading. Throughout the entire game, it paints machines that idolize historical figures without a second thought in a very negative light as they make many mistakes and suffer because they want to be those historical figures and philosophers. Their knowledge of these philosophers is basically elementary school level because they were never able to realize the flaws these philosophers had.
"This game is very emotional"
Yes that's true, i felt a lot of cringe emotions while playing it.
The basic emotions: happiness, sadness, anger, fear, cringe
Hahah well said.
I felt exactly two emotions while playing this game:
90% boredom
10% frustration
Absolute waste of money.
@@TrouvatkiDePercusion x2
Mine was a disappointment I loved first Nier and Drakengard 3. I was so excited to get this I pre-ordered it months and spent about 4 hours tops with it before boredom and lack of story. And I didn't find the over-the-top combat better either. I think combat was fine in nier. And that's the problem.
I think if I played Nier Automata after knowing how much people praise it, I'd probably not have enjoyed it as much as I did when I went through it blindly. It's one of my favorite games but I totally understand everything you're saying and I agree with most of it, it's a weird game that's not for everyone. Guess I just went with the flow and enjoyed it overall
yeah, what makes dead cultures/post apocalyptic settings fun to play through is seeing scraps and hints of the former world. adverts and billboards in fallout and enslaved, old prothean technology in mass effect, in automata it's just grey buildings. the desert mask culture with the 1,000,000,000s of rules from the original nier is pretty interesting, i think the city ruins would be more forgivable if the desert carried the weight, but except for a few references it's not really present
I'm of the opinion that the majority of the people hailing this game as revolutionary are on the younger side. They maybe haven't been exposed to such ideas before so having their philosophy cherry popped is a big deal for them.
I've seen this game's story a hundred times in other books and movies so it comes across as "been there, done that."
It also doesn't help that all the characters are machines as I have zero empathy for a toaster.
it's like how i feel about the praise for tales of araise as a fan of the tales series.
it's story was done better in other entrys. so it has to be people's first game in the series.
@@megamike15 Same. Beat every Tales game that came to NA, haven't touched Arise since the launch weekend.
That's a really good poitn actually
The other game is exactly like that as well, Nier Replicant is just emotionally manipulative, it poses maybe one interesting question, but it's nothing groundbreaking. It's not helped by Nier fans constantly spouting "THIS GAME MADE ME CRY!" "(*INSERT CHARACTER*) DIES IT'S SO SAD WHEN THEY DIED", it feels basic. They're not bad, but they're not as unique as people make out, a lot of anime's also suffer from the same thing, they don't have the depth people attribute to them and I can't help but think it's partly because they're Quirky and Japanese.
I think the game's biggest sin is its complete lack of subtlety. Got so sick of getting beaten over the head
Another sin is the fact that many reviewers never talk about the side quests that you need to do before things start making sense. It misleads the newbies of the game and leads them to be disappointed. Watch analysis videos instead.
Hearing so many of my own criticisms in this video beat for beat made me feel so seen.
Ha ha, I'm glad!
And she saved me 60 USD
Wow... you nailed a lot of my opinions on this game. I WANTED to like this game... and at points I did... but it dragged on, and on, and on, and on.... It became a fucking slog to get through. I eventually just uninstalled my torrented + modded copy and said goodbye to it.
I’m not gonna lie, at first I thought I was going to disagree more than I eventually ended up doing. It’s gonna be hard to go back to this game and look at it the same way I did back in 2017, that’s for sure!
I was the exact opposite way. I was really looking forward to someone picking apart the problems the game has in executing it's vision because it does fail in a lot of ways in what it's trying to be, but this critique or atleast most of it's points seems to come from a fundamemtal misunderstanding of both the game and Taro. Especially at the end. It's understandable as it is written and made in an unusual waybut still deflates the critique. A lot of things couldn't even get to the point of agreement or disagreement because the premise of the complaint was nonsensical.
@@CapraDaAlbaRegia care to elaborate? How is she misunderstanding?
@@sam-bj2hp It’s less misunderstanding but rather people watching the wrong reviews giving them too high of an expectation for this game. If you want to watch a review, forget it. Watch analysis videos instead. Clemp’s analysis videos are perfect for this since he doesn’t overhype the game and actually goes into fucking detail about the plot and the story so that you can go into the game with proper expectations. He also talks about the side quests that you’re gonna need to do before things start making sense. If his videos were more popular, I guaranteed you this video would’ve never needed to be made.
@@sam-bj2hp Basically, don’t listen to normies who overhype the game, listen to actually experienced people to get a proper view of the game before playing it.
Exceptional work! At first I was slightly intimidated by the 53 minutes this video had to offer but 5 minutes into the video made me grab some drinks and snacks to watch the rest of it and before I knew it , the video was over! Honestly just brilliant.
That’s so nice to hear! Glad you enjoyed the show 😊
The story had some interseting themes, but it was all overhyped. It feels like the game only touches the surface of its themes and never goes back. The pacing where everything happens in the last 5 hours is really bad. But atleast it's better than Replicant, where you play the same game with the same enemy levels and the same character 3 times while only getting 5 new scenes in a repeated playthrough. I think Automata is still a good game but it didn't do what it wanted to do.
This video was so cathartic to watch. Every time someone talks about how meaningful and unique and great the game is, I just can’t wrap my head around it. When I played I couldn’t even really analyze the story and characters because I found the gameplay design so infuriating I was usually too distracted to notice anything else. The multiple repetitive playthroughs needed, fast travel never wanting to open up soon enough, no save points where they should be, not even being able to read the options menu to invert the y axis before the first boss, the boring combat. It all just seemed designed to waste my time. I got to the beginning of playthrough C, where I fell into a hole I couldn’t get out of because all my abilities were gone and the last checkpoint was the the start of the chapter, and called it quits. Loved the video.
Thanks, I'm glad I was able to bring some catharsis :)
26:00 Persona 5 does existentialism so much better than Nier: Automata. I've always said that Persona, which may not seem like it on the surface, is far deeper than people think and Nier is not as deep. There are some philosophical underpinnings in Automata, but with poor characterization, it doesn't get the point across very effectively compared to other humanist works. Nier: Automata also relies heavily on the pathetic fallacy in its depiction of humanoid creatures rather than humans. This is normally not a problem when there is relatable character development, but there is very little of that here.
Even after finishing the game up to Ending E, i still prefer Iron Giant and how it explores its own themes of existence and humanity better than Nier automata. Iron giant just had something Nier Automata didnt have.... Heart.
You know... I played NieR: Automata for the first time recently, and was now hoping to find some video essays that explored interpretations of the game that might open my eyes to how good it actually is.
But no, this is just a great video essay, and one with which I 100% agree. Pretty much everything fell flat for me.
I will keep looking tho.
I think the secret bossfight with emil is another example of yoko taro being unable to write insanity in an interesting way. Emil is the most caring and nice character in the nier games, but the clones of himself that he creates go crazy. So what do they choose to do? Blow up the whole planet of course! It’s just so one-note: something bad happens to character, character goes crazy and turns into a edgy „I don’t care anymore, kill everyone” boy. I think the way insanity is portrayed in these games is an unfortunate effect of being so heavily inspired by bad anime tropes, since anime has so many examples of this kind of „crazy person who kills people for no reason” characters.
NO WAY I was laughing at Yoko Taro because he did this twice in one game. Do not tell me he actually did it three times
It isn't entirely the same with Emil. 9S and Eve just immediately become more shallow and boring. Those Emil clones have a lot of history building to that state: They've gone through thousands of years of pain protecting Earth, losing countless companions, cloning themselves countless times, having to replace parts of their bodies, their memories and sense of self deteriorating more and more because of it all. Based on that I'd say it's pretty understandable and realistic why those clones are the way they are. Although unfortunately you won't get some of those details in the actual stinkin game.
Wow Kat, I'm researching my own Nier: Automata video, and I've just finished part 1 of this critique. I wanted to say how much I appreciate how blunt you are regarding how the story and characters had no emotional effect on you. I have similar feelings, and it was nice to see them put out there without any sugar coating. Great stuff. I shall now continue watching. 😁
just finished the game, yeah i pretty much agree with you, the story is fine but not the masterpiece i wwas promised, i just felt it shallow
I wholeheartedly agree with this video. Found myself just being bored with the game and waiting for anything deep or meaningful to happen.
This is the first video essay I've seen where the aesthetic is critiqued, that's new
I'm glad that I'm not the only one who had second thoughts about the game, especially since I already had pre-estabilished expectations going into the game from the hype surrounding it, and jeeeeeez... The game was a let down for me, alot of the game felt like it had all style but no substance, no spice in the pie if you get the point, and as a bullet hell enjoyer... The bullet hell sections of Nier are so incredibly easy that I had to intentionally act stupid to even take damage
The ability to delete enemy bullets is seldom thought of in bullet hells because compensating for it is alot more complicated than it seems, Nier doesn't compensate for the players ability to destroy most bullets
Alot of the video fits my thoughts to the Nail too, I had some "oh that's neat" moments in the game, but yeah, the combat system is deceptively shallow, and the story implying it's going somewhere and probably getting you to think about things is good for speculation and theory, but if all these interesting thoughts I have about the story aren't being Met, Subverted, or Denied, then that potential I see in the story is wasted
Overall... 4.5/10... The game was that big of a let down for me
People talk about the ending E as if it was uplifting, like where is Adam and Eve joining forces with Pascal to wipe out the asshole androids and replace them with self conscious machines? That would be uplifting.
I feel this game is for people who have never been introduced to thought of philosophy or researched consciousness.
I tried playing the game and couldn't make it past 2B's story because it was just so unremarkable. The combat system is literally just MGR but without zandatsu or anything that made that game fun. It was just so unremarkable and I felt so uninvested in the story considering that each cutscene is literally a PowerPoint presentation. When I play an action game, I want to feel like a badass such as DMC5, Hi-Fi Rush, MGR, etc. But spamming the two buttons over and over again was just so boring that I couldn't stomach it anymore. The game was just too boring and I was only 5 hours into it. So naturally, I stopped playing. I did the same thing for MGR claiming that it was also bad but my points were terrible. I didn't know what would happen if I possibly shared my opinion but here you are doing it and now I know that I wasn't wrong. This game is the most unremarkable game that gets remarked way too much.
It's weird to me that people latch on to a theme of consciousness within machines and if it's possible. I never got that feeling from this game. That was very upfront and center. You play as androids with emotions and thought. Faulting the game for writing there seems unfair.
Rather, the androids behavior to the machines could be viewed as the effects of brainwashing and unlearning what you're told with the evidence of your eyes.
I dropped the game because it was becoming such a drag, and learning about the nauseating number of time's I'd have to go through it to finish the game did not help my want to play the game any further. Also the story and themes were a completely unintelligible mess, which for the life of me I couldn't understand.
I also was completely unaware (for some magical reason) that a game that is story driven, in fact, does not have the story inside of it, but in external material you specifically have to hunt down and assemble the pieces (kinda like shitty IKEA) to grasp what's going on. And also, in my opinion, it's quite hard to use the information from this external material to have an appreciation for the game because it is not coming from in the game I'm engaging with and (trying) to be immersed in, but rather outside of it which i have to recall and am not immersed in.
I also loved so much that you pointed out the shallow presentations of the themes that were explored (or rather were attempted to (or rather were just winged by Yoko Taro)). That really helped in spelling out one of my major frustrations with the game.
Your video helped me exactly spell out my frustrations of the game to the T, so thank you. It was a lovely and engaging watch, and just an amazing video in general, I'm happy I found it.
I think a game with machines that did a thoughtful story better is ULTRAKILL. It tells a story of heaven, hell, machines, and the worst parts of humanity in a very clever way, and it also has amazing gameplay
Having liked this game. I love this review. Thanks for calling it out on some of its bull
My pleasure :) This is a nice comment to receive, thanks!
As someone who's tried to get into Automata multiple times. I can never bring myself to finish it. And once I heard the first Nier was essentially getting a remaster. I bought it for retail price. I thought, "Maybe the first game is just as worse. But it looks more graphically impressive than Automata. I'll give it a try." From the opening sequence where you see a desolate city with broken worn down buildings, snow or what looks to be snow falling from the skies, the somber tone playing in the backround, an abandoned store with a young boy with a pipe curled up as if he's going to die evoked so many emotions that I was already invested within a matter of seconds. Sure, the story took a turn once that sequence ended, but at that point, I was all in and ready to learn more about what happened. Nier Replicant may not have the most engaging gameplay, but the characters and story of life and mystery had me intrigued from start to finish. It was essentially the perfect equilibrium. I felt like I got my money's worth with Nier Replicant as opposed to Nier Automata, where I bought it on sale for $20 and felt as if I spent too much. Props to this video!
Glad you enjoyed the vid (and that you had a better experience with NieR!) :)
Thank you. I was disappointed playing this game and surprised that it was so well-regarded. The worst part is the writing. Pretentious and obvious, but with a sitcom-level plot.
Such an incredible articulation of how this game fails its own premise and falls victim to a strange, almost cult-like hyperbole. Its a shame you don't have more views. This channel certainly deserves them.
This is the first time Ive seen criticism for NieR Automata that I agree with. I still love it for various reasons, and the Ending ending with the Credits killed me, but you highlight many issues I didnt notice or was unable to solidify. Awesome video.
This is such a great comment to receive, thank you!
10:00 Regarding connecting through a character in a deep and philosophical story, have you played SOMA?
Sadly not!
I really agree with your statement about the auto save! The problem with no auto save, especially in this game, is the pacing. The game is constantly throwing you into the next big action sequence that you may forget that you have to save. I had this happen through my 9s play through! I lost an hour and 45 minutes because I took a wrong turn during an action sequence and all I got was a lousy message saying you died because you took a wrong turn! I was beyond furious to say the least. Lol
You Rock! I stumbled over your Channel this night and watched all Videos. Well structered, well done and very calming voice. Please proceed this way im looking forward to it.
Thank you! Do support the channel if you can by spreading the word 😊 Glad you’re enjoying my stuff!
I just wish you heared more varied praise aside from just its a masterpiece with no reason. It's like saying demon slayer made me cry, ok that means nothing to me aside from it made you emotional.
You just vocalized everything in my head.
Your channel is the coolest game channel I've stumbled across in a very long time, currently binging all your videos! Automata blew me away when I first played it, I cried so much, still one of my favorite games ever. But I loved your video, very thoughtful and I actually agree with a lot! Especially the lack of backstory about A2. The first flashback she had was cool, but her campaign was more about Pascal than her, she spent most of the time being a jerk, which felt very unsatisfying.
In the end, I think I'm very into the game mostly because I actually like "on-the-nose" storytelling. I'm very bad at picking up subtlety and nuance in a story, so I prefer having everything "spelled out".
Glad you liked the vid! Be sure to spread the word if you’re enjoying the channel 😊
So the final part about lore is not considered spoiler right? I'm playing this for the first time and I still enjoy it, with it's repetitiveness etc
well done, it was an entertaining eloquent and thoughtful critique,
The emperor's new clothes was also on my mind while playing the game, it also made me think of the Stockholm syndrome and sunk cost fallacy, as people that spend so much time playing the game and it's various playthroughs just don't want to admit to themselves that it was partly a waste of time,
it's ironical as by wasting you're time it makes you in a way face you're own search for meaning (though i don't think it's intentional)
I already broke in the 2nd playthrough as it was just mainly padding, so I looked up the rest online and was relieved of the time that was saved, and this video has helped close some other corners while I was also trying to understand why the game is so highly regarded
It's also kind of interesting to see the similarities of the faults in this game and final fantasy 15 where to get the lore you need to first see a movie and several anime like shorts and play the DLC's and and so on so it's world wont feel so superficial and shallow and that stuff just makes no sense
Wow, I found someone who is even more negative about this game than I am. Thank God, I thought I was the only one. Combat was especially rough, as I had simultaneously started playing my first Dark Souls game and it was thus hard not to compare them. The environment art was also painful, as I am literally a game artist.
Edit: I literally said the exact same thing about the color palette to my best friend who is a nier megafan
Haha, glad we shared the same feelings!
Great vid.
I kept bouncing off of NeiR:A and never really got started. I kept hearing how great it was and thought I was missing out. Refreshing to know... eh... maybe I'm not missing out on too much.
Epic Neil DeGrasse Explosion got a big laugh outta me. Love the editing.
Happy to be one of your Patroons.
That's lovely, thank you so much! I enjoyed putting Neil in there.
Just something i want to point out as a super fan of the series:
A2's backstory was already established before NieR Automata came out. There is a summary accessable in the resistance camp computer, but the game kind of just assumes you know the series and therefore know A2's story. The summary is missable if you don't pay attention but the camera pans towards the computer and they tell you that you can look at it whenever.
I really do think Automata is elevated if you have knowledge of the rest of the series, especially Nier Replicant, but it was my first NieR game as well, and the one that made me interested in the series to begin with.
Your criticisms are all very thought out and i agree with a lot of them despite connecting so much with this game personally.
Regarding the side materials not being in the game. Sure i can agree that i would prefer if it wasn't in side materials, but the dialogue makes a lot of what they explore pretty obvious, and the revelation that 2B is actually 2E should be enough for the player to put some thought into their interactions and put all the pieces together.
NieR Automata is no masterpiece, even though I and many other fans often treat it as one, but it's quirky delivery of its narrative makes it stand out among a lot of samey games, especially in the jrpg genre.
Side note: I'm glad you mentioned ending E. It was my favorite moment in the game and it struck a chord with me with how it contrasted the meaningless conflict depicted in the main story.
(wonderful video essay btw. Listened to the entire thing despite going in not expecting to :))
Sadly by the time the revelations came I’d already stopped caring 😅 Thanks for confirming my growing suspicion that the game is less accessible if you’re unfamiliar with the series, that explains some of my gripes. And thanks for your thoughtful comments 😊
@@PixelaDay it does stand on it's own, but i think replicant is a better entry point, as automata references a lot of replicant.
What's interesting in automata to me is the layers of hidden truths in the main cast. The main conflict is not particularly interesting at all actually.
What's interesting about the lore of the series is more so connected to replicant and drakengard. Just my personal opinion. Sorry you didn't enjoy it! Glad you still found the music pretty though 😌
@@PixelaDay I have a problem: If you want more newbies to be able to more easily access automata, then Socratetris and maybe Clemps could be recommended more to properly prepare those unfamiliar ones to the series. I mean unless you hate the series and don’t bother trying to accurately explain it to a newbie.
@@LinusKarlssonMusic I’m gonna be honest, I also prefer Replicant. Mostly because Replicant’s side quests do little more than provide boosts and upgrades to gameplay elements rather than being required in order to fully piece together the story and characters. Speaking of the characters, I prefer Kaine, Nier, Emil, and Grimoire Weiss over the characters in Automata due to them just being much more entertaining to watch for me. That doesn’t make Automatas characters bad though especially if you can find the context behind why they are how they are which is something very few newbies to the nier series are able to find and I can’t blame them with how hidden the context to these characters are because Yoko Taro does what Yoko Taro wants and for this entry, he decided to have a little fun by chopping the story and character elements up and hiding pieces away in side content within the game.
This reminds me of Balan Wonderworld. There's actually a surprising amount of decent lore and ideas that are never, ever, ever properly shown in the game itself.
Japanese developers are freaking weird.
I loved hearing your analysis of this game. I don't have a PS so I was never planning to play it (and games are expensive) so I watched a let's play like I usually do. And I really struggled to connect with it and didn't see what so many others love about it. Especially the philosophical stuff which I thought was just ignorance on my part. And maybe it still is but I did feel like it was lacking depth. In any case, I really appreciate hearing a different viewpoint on this game and I always love your analyses since I found your channel. Thank you for making another amazing essay. 😊
Thank you so much, so glad you’re enjoying the channel!
19:07 I have several disagreements with your video but I just wanted to quickly respond to one of them, namely your disappointment with the theme of religion in N:A. I think one thing you're kind of missing here is that Factory Death Cult is not the only group of religious robots in N:A, I think all of the robots in this game can be thought of as in some way religious. Most of the machines and androids worship humanity, think of them as Gods, and the war between machines and androids can be thought of as a religious war fought in the name of humanity. The Factory Death Cult is just one of many religious groups in N:A although it is the only made to be explicit, and it is also the most radical as they believe due to a twisted sort of logic, that since the humans they worship are dead, they must thus die too to also become gods(If I remember the lore correctly).
What an incredible analysis, thank you! I really enjoyed this game after sinking ~50hrs into it upon its release, but the more time passed since then, the more I've re-evaluated it and found myself anxious in that "...wait, was I just caught up in the moment?" kind of sense.
This video perfectly articulated my own feelings for me in a way I couldn't quite reach on my own. Thank you for that! ✨
Thank you for your wonderful comment! I'd be curious to hear what it was about "the moment" that swept up so many people when it came out.
I gotta say amazing video, but I gotta say not every game is for everyone. I do have to say that I think that NieR Automata is perfect for people who are into getting secrets and experimentation. A good analogy, I gotta say, could be that the game is an egg, but it’s just an egg. Playing it more and more will let it cook until it’s an omelette I gotta say, but it’s missing something still. Add in some “seasoning” from outside sources, and I gotta say, you got a full blown omelette with a burst of flavor! It does cost more time, but I’d say it’s worth it, if I do say so myself.
I really loved the game and it's nice to hear a "negative" opinion about it for once. I understand most of your critics, I have my own on some others points like, it seems you ended the game, so you should know that 2B real mission is to kill 9S over and over and her real "name" is 2E for Elimination (you need a book to know that B is for Battlers, S for Scanners and A for Attackers though) and it's in the last cutscene, told by A2 to 9S.
Also I'd say the game is pretty meta about other games but I think NieR Gestalt/Replicant does it better. You know the message that players usually kills everything they cross in a game because the game tell them to do so and they think they're right to do it then. Players are kinda androids in their own way. So the 1st ending is kinda "usual ARPG story", 2nd one is "actually, you only had one side of the story". But as you said, 2B and 9S ARE androids and are hard to relate to at the beginning so yeah I understand your point and as I said, NieR Replicant characters are more humans so easier to understand this message.
This message changes through Yoko Taro's work. Like his first game is Drakengard were he uses the MUSO (Dynasty Warriors) fighting style to tell a story about a mad men because at this time he though that only mad people could do those genocides. Then 2001 September 11th happened and he understood that people do those things when they think they're doing it for the good reasons.
Also as you said in your pinned comment, yeah, most of the lore is in the side quests that you mostly have to do once per playthrough, like if you did one with 2B, this one is cleared for 9S (except some quests). Then you realize that the main story is pretty quick to end if you rush through it when you already finished side quests. But maybe the lore given through main story and sidequests isn't balanced enough to give people the need to investigate more.
PS: Even if I talk about Drakengard and NieR Replicant. Drakengard is very painfull to play today, NieR Replicant ver 1.5 is a better way to get through the game than the original but there's still all those side quests and conditions to have the "true ending" that I don't think you'll like doing 3 times the story to have the true ending :p
I'll be honest - and at the risk of making massive assumptions and saying something extremely reductive towards this game - I think Yoko Taro is a fan of games and anime, and I think his writing suffers from being framed by a lifetime of influence from Japanese games and anime. I think Automata fails to deliver interesting things to say about the human condition because Yoko Taro doesn't really have much to say about the human condition. I'm reminded of Hayao Miyazaki's critique of the modern anime industry, where he noted that so much anime is created basically by otaku who are so immersed in the medium that they don't really have any interest in or meaningful things to say about real life. They create things which pander to people like themselves.
Like, I could never show this game to my fucking dad and I know that seems like a silly statement but I think it actually is pretty telling. You have to take so much anime bullshit for granted before you can even begin to grapple with this thing
I was a huge anime fan for 10 years but as I got older I found it more and more difficult to uncritically accept the BS, the dumb tropes, the fan service etc. Nier Automata felt very empty of substance to me too, similar to a lot of anime as you say. Which is fine if you’re an otaku who just wants to be pandered to, but the way people put this game on a pedestal is weird to me.
Two things I learned last year: 1) NieR: Automata is not nearly as ingenious as everyone claims it is, 2) Yu-Gi-Oh! was not nearly as bad as I remembered it from having watched it as a kid. 😂
@@cosmicprison9819 interesting
I am so glad this video exists as I thought I was alone in my distain and thought that perhaps I missed something that everyone else was apparently getting and it was driving me nuts. I agree with every single point made here. To be clear, I never thought this game was irredeemably horrible and I did enjoy it at points... but my God do I think it is overrated.
Glad my video struck a chord :)
I really do love Nier automata I really but I just found it surprising that I found basically no one really criticizing the game. I still do like the story and even though I agree that the gameplay is repetitive I really didn’t mind besides I know hack and slash aren’t exactly for everyone anyway. I really have to commend you for actually doing this criticism is important for improvement I hope next time Taro makes a game that won’t disappoint you
Thank you so much for your thoughts and open-mindedness :) I've also seen precious little criticism, I think that's why I went in with such high expectations!
Hi Kat, this is by far the best sum-up of the game and my thoughts on it I've encountered so far - absolutely spot-on, and incredibly great to put this all into a video in an age of (sadly) so much internet hate. Having played the entire "series" (the Dragkengard games + NieR) I have rarely been so disappointed by a game as I was by NieR:Automata, and I've spend a whole lot of time trying to pinpoint what my actual issues with it were.
Admittedly you're used to a lot of positive and negative surprises when playing Yoko Taro games as they all have their quirks, especially on the gameplay side, but with Automata I was really universally baffled by pretty much all of the reasons you mentioned. Being made by Platinum Games you would expect a big boost on gameplay, sadly as you described that fell completely flat and I also switched the auto-combat on at some point as I just couldn't bear with it anymore. Then on top of that the comment from Yoko Taro really seems true, it's all such a weird mess of stereotypes, clichés and not really thought-out ideas. It just feels like name-dropping the philosophical ideas you've mentioned in your comment to make it sound ambitious, which is a trend of many Square Enix games over the last 2 decades. Like another commenter mentioned that might also be the effect Hayao Miyazaki criticized in regards to modern anime creators. That hits escpecially hard when compared to his previous works, specifically NieR and its extended remastered version, which at least seems like it's exploring ideas more thoroughly with some more thought behind it. In hindsight maybe he had the same approach, in that case it was a lucky shot that didn't feel too much like it - there's surely a big gap in storytelling quality between both games.
What makes me a bit bitter about this is that in the end Automata received so much hype by many players and press people who haven't played the rather obscure and not-that-easy-to-play previous games and thus don't have any comparison to the (well, partially) more fleshed-out entries in the series, elevating both the game and Yoko Taro for all the wrong reasons. Now that really makes me sound like a bitter fan-boy, sorry for that :D Watching the newest Star Wars movies (some of which are universally panned) and calling them the best thing ever without ever having watched the original trilogy feels like a good comparison if you get my drift.
Well, on the plus side it made room for the NieR remaster, which interestingly isn't really well-regarded among Automata fans or at least the ones I've exchanged thoughts with (take this with a grain of salt here, I'm not sure if that's the common opinion).
Again, thanks so much for this great essay. I rarely comment on anything online, in this case I just wanted to leave this here :) Great work.
Thanks for your awesome comment! It blows me away when even NieR fanboys and girls share some of my opinions on Automata :)
I find it hard to disagree with any of your specific critiques, but I still disagree with your overall takeway, I think? Super weird.
I find it really fascinating that you found the game's lack of dramatising the characters' interiority a dealbreaker. While I agree, the game doesn't to anything to dramatise the emotional beats the characters go through, I didn't find that to be a problem? For instance, when we learn that 2B is actually 2E and her job is to keep executing 9S every time he learns the truth, I didn't need to see her grappling with this concept. My mind immediately filled in those blanks and go "oh". Maybe dramatising this (and everything else) in explicit terms would be better, but I think you're given enough tools within the game itself to contextualise what the characters' feelings are (I never read the supplementary material and I'm not a lore guy).
Lovely, well-argued critique overall even if I entirely disagree :)
Also, I only found your channel earlier today and you're one of my new faves. Been binge-watching your vids for a few hours while working, but felt compelled to comment on this one.
Have a good day!
Hey, a lot of people disagree with me on this game! Your feelings are valid. I appreciate people sharing their experiences even if they’re different from mine. Yoko Taro’s stuff is polarising and it’s fine for people to have had different reactions! Glad you’re enjoying the channel 😊
@@PixelaDay The top comments on this video are people who agree with you without checking out the other side of the argument such as watching Socra’s video. You have to scroll so far down in order to even remotely find any comment that disagrees. But that isn’t the problem. Like I said, the problem is that very few people here have seen both sides of the argument and more importantly, very few people are actually fact checking what they’re saying. Even if you don’t play automata or don’t have a full understanding of it, at least learn from actually credible sources like Socratetris or maybe even Clemps who actually know a lot about automata and are able to give you a more complete view of the game through video descriptions backed up by ingame footage/literal fucking evidence. I am so sick and tired of people not knowing about any of the side content hidden in the game and spreading their lies to other people that this game doesn’t have any of those side contents which is just infecting more people with lies and leading them to spread those lies to more people. It’s time to kill the woozle.
@@myusername3689 Or They know about both sides of the arguement and they just don't like the game. Simple
@@razzy9172 No this video has some severe flaws. A lot of argument Kat present are poorly researched and at its worst not even true, especially her surface level comparisons with EVA. If you have tried out both arguments and still believe this video is an ''accurate'' or a ''good'' critique you are just being too stubborn.
@@wolfi9180 What Can't comprehend that people Understand the game while not liking the game?
And After doing My research in it's Lore and themes most of her research is actually right and accurate and Critisism Is actually valid.
hoenstly most of how the game presents itself is pretty flawed and is pretty badly written and executed.
There is just something off about beating a robot with a sword that makes this gameplay boring to me.
Very good video! I really liked your take. I enjoyed the game more than you (played for almost 65 hours) and maybe it helped that I had very low expectations and from certain point I could only see the plot as an unintentional comedy. You mentioned the lore, well, even with the information from the lore and side quests (I did most of them, and that's how I found out about A2's backstory, to be fair it's in the game) the plot still doesn't work for me. For instance, SPOILER ALERT: The relationship between 2B and 9S is interesting, being doomed to that cycle is good material for drama yes, but when I think about the whole context I just can't help but wonder: why did that need to happen in the first place? why does this highly advanced futuristic android society need to follow such an impractical plan to keep the truth from being revealed? is having 2B kill 9S every time he's getting close to the truth the only way this highly advanced futuristic android society could keep him in check? why does he even need to be so "advanced" in the first place if the goal isn't winning any war after all? why does this "advanced" unit have the aspect and mentality of a prepubescent little boy? Yes, the reason is probably that this is a JRPG with an anime plot, but I need an in-world reason for it, I didn't find any, and this happend with a thousand other questions that came to my mind. Geez haha
I think the why is that the 9s units being programmed to be inquisitive to the point of eventually finding the truth makes them exeptionally good at their job of analysing the enemy, to the point that having someone kill them when they go to far is still more efficent than tuning that aspect down. Though that's just my reading of it, I think it could've been reflected in the actions of the characters and the plot a lot better
and about his personallity, I think it's just a way to reflect the fact that he's never truly allowed to grow and evolve out of said "age", he's just constantly killed and set back, though I think it's more a thematic thing than a logical in universe explination
@@doc8125 Well, about his personality, I think it's simpler than that, this very important unit is a teenager because this game is a JRPG, so the main characters have to be/look like children and teens even if that doesn't make sense in universe. Needing to eventually get rid of these units instead of tuning them down from the beginning makes sense, but having an android with feelings "kill" them every time isn't an efficient way of dealing with them I think. They have the technology to come up with way better ways to neutralize these units before they become a threat.
@@duhmzdaihthat being the logical reason why they picked his personality I agree with, but I think it makes thematic sense as well.
Having an android without feeling would also probably limit their ability to make decisions effectively, just like with 9s I think it's a necessary fault to have them be effective and assess situations in the best possible way.
Though I don't think it's fully water tight logic, it's enough to have my suspension of disbelief stay intact and it does go to serve the story. Though I guess that's all a matter of perspective, maybe even a more "half full or half empty" kind of debate where I might be more willing to find excuses to try to have it make sense, but for you it still kills suspension of disbelief
The worst part is that this is a sequel to NieR which is arguably a storytelling masterpiece.
This is such a good video!!! Can't wait to see this channel explode!!!!
This explains why I am interested in the plot but never really connected with the story.
My only wow moment was with Simone, the robot that was looking for love and we actually sees her journey in trying to get said love
I've just started this.
That is one of the best disclaimer/PSA I've seen in a video essay
Haha thank you 😊
Cool distinction between plot and story! Ill remember that.
Props to you for putting in all the effort into producing this video, and into the research behind it (especially Yoko Taro admitting that he didn’t put a lot of deep thoughts into the game). As we all can tell from the comments, a lot of people seem to always have felt the same way about it. But precisely because the game is ultimately so shallow with its philosophical themes, and even contradictory at times, I guess to most people who could provide such an elaborate criticism of it as you did, the effort just didn’t seem worth it in the end. You took one for the team there. So rest assured your suffering through this game was definitely not meaningless! 😁
Thanks to wonderful comments like yours, the effort was 100% worth it 😊
I recently finished my first playthrough of this game, 3 years after your video and 7 years after its original release. I too am now more of a elder gamer, closer to 40 than 30, with a job and family and everything, so i also want a good story when i have time to play games and i too loved easy mode lol. i definitely fell in love with this game and just dove into the lore and have been listening to tons of video essays about it. This is also my first Nier game experience so i've been learning about all the connections to the first nier and drakkengard and all that.
I love the gameplay and the theming and everything, and i also got totally fixated with how fun and refreshing i thought this game was, but i really really appreciate your actual critical perspective. i've been watching automata videos like mad because i've been enjoying the commentary and thoughts on the lore, but your video has been the best by far. thanks for bringing me back down to earth and taking a step back to actually look at this game through a critical lens.
Great video. Thank you so much.
Thanks, that's an awesome comment to receive! I'm glad you enjoyed the vid and the game :)
AMAGAD, the comparaison with Evangelion is mind-blowing !
at l[E]ast the soundtrack was good
You earned yourself a subscriber, best take on this game Ive ever heard.
Have you played NieR Replicant by any chance? I would love to hear your opinion on it.
That's so nice to hear, thank you! This was my first (and probably last) foray into anything NieR.
@Pixel a Day Yeah I cant blame you for that...
Anyway, you mentioned Eva, which happens to be my favourite show as well... Is there any Eva-inspired game you could reccomend? There are some but I havent found a good one yet.
(It would make for a good review if you are looking for topics for your channel)
You probably know more than me! It’s been a while since I was in the anime scene
@@robertvolek8360 Xenogears
@@cosmo7314
thanks, ill check it out
You put many of my thoughts on this game into words, struggled to make it through all the endings. Being stuck in a loop of slow walking and falling down a ladder at the city ruins deep cave, because 2b was infected by a virus and couldn't move properly almost made me uninstall the game. Lost progress because there is no auto save :D The only things I liked about this game were the decision you need to make at ending E and its implications, the sound track and Pascal/his village
would not play again.
I could not put my finger on why I hated this game so much, but you really laid it out so well here. It just seems like every part of the game is lacking and the story itself was so shallow. I just couldn't understand why anybody thought the story was so "deep".