Why Modern Day Poker Is More Like Chess
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- čas přidán 6. 10. 2022
- Just like in Chess, Poker relies a lot on Game Theory Optimal Solutions.
There are answers to pretty much any gameplay scenario and the more of them you learn, the better your chances are of winning.
So how much of the game is skill and how much of it comes down to accurate calculations? - Věda a technologie
Damn they turned poker into an SAT test ☠️
Imagine a strategy game having strategy.
Im suprised its taken this long for poker to develop something like this in the mainstream really. You'd think with the amount of money at stake people would be all over it as soon as they can
Poker has always had strategy, it's merely that its strategies were based around observing human tendencies (and limitations) and math. Now it's based around trying to memorize how a computer with much more computational power would play so as to be unexploitable. Very different kinds of strategies, and both are still relevant.
@@harrywhite9030 poker solutions take a lot of computing power to calculate. 10 years ago household computers were far too weak to generate solutions. Even today you need a pretty strong one, I have a $2000 pc which gives me like just more than necessary to do all common spots
@@harrywhite9030they were.
the amount of ram needed to solve even basic trees meant it was only relatively recently cost effective.
I remember when age was playing g she was always pro-math and strategy as any decent player would be then.
Now it seems she’s angry because the general
Population have the means to
Learn these strategies 😂
You also have to keep in mind that everything in the world is chess now, and that poker is no exception to that rule.
Coming from knowing a guy who compared everything to chess, I can confirm this
One of the worst comments Ive read. Makes no sense
@@skillsmachine9164 You did not read a lot of comments, did you?
What makes you say that? Why now?
GTO is the starting point. The closer to GTO the opponents play, the closer you stick to it and it becomes a game of who has the biggest brainpower. The farther from GTO opponents play, the more you deviate to punish them.
Liv is right when she says GTO is making poker less enjoyable. It used to be a social game of instincts and gamesmanship. Now, it's a game of who studies the most.
Nonsense it’s just the best strategy and anyway no human can come close to playing perfect GTO
She seems bitter that she couldn’t keep up
That’s actually not true. Street poker is really coming back into style especially at online high stakes
OK that just proves that the pros are not even playing GTO so youve contradicted yourself@@masstransitrecords7865
It's not really brainpower, or knowing the most perfect GTO, that determines success in any one hand or game. It determines success over averages, i.e. MANY hands or MANY games. Even then, if you rely on deviation to punish opponents, the more you open yourself up to exploitation, which means that unless your intuition and insight are as good as your maths, you're just as vulnerable.
The best players aren't gaining marginal value. They're employing reads, intuition and insight. And if you go down the route of "that's just another GTO strategy", well then so is literally anything.
The main difference between chess and hold'em is that if a novice plays against 8 of the best players in chess in a tournament he or she has a better chance of winning the lottery than that tournament. This is far from the case if a novice were to play 8 of the best hold 'em players in a sit and go.
That’s what happens when u combine luck with skill and strategy. There’s no luck in chess.
Yeah but over a big enough sample size the worse player will NEVER earn more money. The short term RNG element means yes a bad player can win short term
Liv, what about the fragility of those simulations? Opening ranges, bet sizing, stack sizes, number of players in the hand post flop, the abstractions of limited bet sizing required to even approximate the equilibrium solutions all have drastic effects on what that equilibrium looks like and that doesn’t begin to touch on how impossible it is for humans to implement an actual equilibrium strategy. I don’t see the comparison. It seems to me like the fundamental uncertainty, incomplete information, insane variance and inescapable human psychological elements make poker as interesting as ever, albeit less approachable than it used to be. I don’t think that poker (no limit or pot limit varieties at least) will ever be like competitive chess.
AI poker crushes human poker players. All of them.
@@BruceWing I think op wasn't disputing that. He was saying that humans aren't ai. A good gto player might only remember the rules for all 2 person pot post flop with normal preflop raises. No one can remember all the rules for other parameters like 3, 4 way pots or unusual bet sizing.
well, to quote Bobby Fischer "I HATE CHESS" lol
yeah exactly what he meant. it’s not playing, it’s remembering.
Bobby Fischer should have switched to playing Poker. Or maybe he was born in the wrong era - maybe the poker scene wasn't so good at Bobby's time. Bobby would have made a phenomenal chess player, considering nolimit holdem is more complex than chess.
@@pupper5580 yeah, good point although people take things to seriously these games can be played just as well by children.
@@franklinfamulski8638people take their passions Seriously to you it’s just a game to others it’s more
@@franklinfamulski8638what’s interesting is the goat of chess Paul Morphy stopped retired from chess bc it’s a children’s game
I agree 100% online poker did this to poker.
I wouldn't blame online. We are coming out of the information age into the Data age where now that our capacity to compute data has caught up to the sheer amount of data we have your starting to see computers have a profound analytical impact on every aspect of life. It's why NFL coaches are going for 2 more often or opting to run another play versus punting the ball etc. It's computers impact.
More specifically, poker tracking systems did this to poker. Before that, players didn't have enough data to solve the game.
@@MrBeatboxmasta there is no solving a game of chance. Sure one can minimize risk, but there will always be the random unknown, for without it the game would no longer exist.
@@HeyMichaelLeo I know. I meant solving to the extent that math can solve it.
Sklansky said it best when he stated that you can play GTO against weak players and win at a decent rate -but you’re leaving a WHOLE lot of money on the table by not deviating and becoming more exploitative.
all that gto shyt goes right out the window once i crack you with 9,7 off, and your trying to get your money back lmao...
They don't understand how much Luck and Variance is involved with Poker. Lol. Nothing like Chess.
@@TravelGuy1111 imagine saying this to data scientists
Hellmuth - " Goddam internet players"
😂😂😂😂😂 true asf
@@ai_master7 TRUTH
GTO gives you the recipe when you have the nuts or nothing but when you have middle pairs and straights with flushes on the board and you’re up against a maniac who calls 3 bets with 78 off, it’s more than just GTO scenarios
But also at any given time in real life, you want to play the people and their tendencies. Not everyone is numbers
Yea I dunno what her problem is? All strategies evolve over time and nobody can play perfect GTO not even the best pros.
I doubt even 90% of the poker playing public know any GTO strategy
Daniel negreanu said it best: game theory optimal is like throwing rock, paper, scissors each 1/3 of the time with even probability. No one can find a strategy to beat you, but you also won't be winning alot.
Nah that’s too simplistic! Poker GTO is a bit more complex than three actions and anyway no human can come close to perfect GTO
@@Gos1234567 The analogy works. The concept is the same
@@nirmalasokan1687 nope
@@Gos1234567 yup
@@Gos1234567 in other words, if two players went heads up and played perfectly GTO over hundreds of thousands of hands, they would both break even. The money is made when someone deviates from GTO and someone else takes advantage of that (exploits their mistakes).
Based on the Tim's energy in the podcast with Liv, it was obvious he likes her. Bigtime.
Nah man , he invited her but he actually hates her guts, he had to force himself to interview her or something ... And yes I'm sarcastic cause really whats not to like about Liv?
@@phantomapprentice6749 LMAO
Well who doesn't
Everybody likes her lol. She looks good, she is fun and interesting and has a lot of knowledge about the game.
@@lajeandom look out, Tim is single again. 🦍
The amount if scenarios is unlimited just like in chess. You can't learn them all but knowing alot of them by heart would help.
Poker is still a people's game. It will never be chess specially while the element of luck is still involved.
Variance*
@@redellinferno1721 Yup, I've gotten "Varianced" by horrible players on the river more times than I can remember; I don't even tilt anymore.
@@zone07 in the long run, if you play +EV you'll get your profit. Odds realize themselves if you made the same play a huge amount of times, unless the game is rigged, ofc
@@redellinferno1721 I'm old school, I've been playing GTO before it was a fad; it just didn't have a trendy name.
@@zone07Exactly! Balance is just new jargon for “mixing it up”
Deny equity was protect your hand
polarise bets on wet boards was “charge the draws”
I mean a lot of it is just common sense she is making out that everyone know know the correct love and bet size in every flop for every hand which is BS
She just seems bitter about it or something
Problem is that if you are using gto and your opponent isn't, you are likely playing completely wrong. Saw a solve the other day that was 95% check, but when node locking to have villain play polarized instead of merge-y, solve bets almost 100%.
If you are using GTO and your opponent isn’t, then you’ll win in the long run.
@@SuperYtc1 Solvers run simulations versus itself, meaning they're assuming a GTO balanced strategy from its opponents. This is what people refer to as 'playing GTO' - the strategy the solver outputs. But in real games, this doesn't work because players are wildly imbalanced in most spots. GTO players take account of this and adjust their play accordingly. I.E. a solver would bluff 33% of the time on a specific river node, but a human would only bluff 5%, then using a GTO strategy would be losing. If you were to let a GTO bot run loose in a pool, it would probably be break even or slightly losing.
@@gladyslucas198that’s incorrect. The optimal solution changes against a known suboptimal opponent, yes, but it does not make GTO “lose”. It still wins (or breaks even) in the long run no matter what the opponent does. A human player who takes into account tendencies can potentially profit MORE off of his opponent’s mistakes but there is nothing a player can do to “beat GTO” just because they know they are playing a GTO bot. That’s what Nash equilibrium is. Just because you KNOW your opponent will always throw exactly 1/3rd each of rock, paper, scissor doesn’t mean you can beat them. It means they can’t be beat… only tied. Bots have long since been able to beat the very best human poker players. We are way past that point now.
Reminds me of of wanting to learn chess when I was young, and a friend gave me a book full off optimal openings & responses back and forth to memorize. Turns out even local competition require them, and you have to go through that to even come to a point where you think about the board.
Hey man, don’t get bugged out about it. Chess is a great game.
I recommend just thinking about each move in a given circumstance, look at what you’re going to do and potential responses your opponent could have. That’s all it is… everythings on board. No card up their sleeve, nothing. If you do that, over time, your chess game will improve, and it will make for a much more enjoyable play experience. You win some you lose some, but along the way you get better and develop more of a appreciation for the game
Best of luck out there
*side note: play at a bar. Varying skill levels makes for a fun game mixed with very skillful moves and atrocious blunders. Speaking from experience
Actually, openings are by far the LEAST important part of Chess until you start getting around 1500 or so, and they don't become immensely important until you're over 2000. Most chess games before ~2000 are going to be won/lost on tactical mistakes, and being able to spot those tactics is far more important to your success early on. By around 2000 tactical mistakes start to become significantly rarer, and you have to start learning the subtleties of positional, long term, strategic play, and have a solid opening repertoire so you don't always end up with bad positions early on when your opponents won't make as many mistakes.
Phil Hellmuth does none of this and still wins bracelets nonstop. Poker is just very hard and few people are good enough to stick with it and succeed
Phil absolutely does this lol
@@magnusred2945Definitely not, he's mocked enough by the GTO nerds for it.
And it shows, his way of playing predate the GTO
But the reason why sge don't like it too much anymore is that back in the date some small circle knows about Game Theory Optimal but didn't want to show it to the world. Some poker professional wants to maintain those secrets between themself. Isn't until Cole South wrote "Let there be range" that people like me understand better how to study and understanding the game.
This is a terrific composition. A comparable book I read was like a breath of fresh air. "Game Theory and the Pursuit of Algorithmic Fairness" by Jack Frostwell
It's fun knowing this and going against the grain. It makes heads spin at the table :)
So will screaming loudly and thumping your chest
But does that make money?
@@rahmaximus8736 it has. You gotta know when to use it. 😊
If someone plays optimal theory VS you it doesn't make more money long run though.@@huntercarneystandup
It’s not just about memorising these scenarios and adopting a static strategy. There’s still a huge human element in the game and you need to constantly adjust to players who may or may not deviate from the optimal to various degrees. If you’re not dynamic enough you’ll be exploited.
yes, but there are 1326 possible hands to be dealt at poker, there is also the board, there is also other players positions, bet sizing and etc. I would think it is almost impossible to learn all of these situations and what you should do when, however if you could do that then you would always win money because no one else can perfectly play game theory optimal
Poker is not like chess at all. Emotions and betting makes an addition to knowing the patterns. Its has some similarity with chess, but it is very different as you cannot calculate every option, unlike chess, and have to tryst you guts.
Good insight, maybe a mix of both?
Well, in chess you cannot calculate every option neither, that's why players make mistakes, because they aren't able to analyze every line in a given position.
The emotions and psychology also affects players in chess (Look for example at game 8 in the WCC between Ding Liren and Nepo, where Nepo played a "bluff" and Ding fell for it). That being said, it's true that in Poker emotions are more important
She’s saying at the pro level and she’s right
@@ianaguilar8090so she doesn’t like that pros use math and strategy?? 😂😂😂😂
@@Gos1234567 kinda it’s more that she hates how formulaic the game has become
This top common says it’s different because you cannot calculate every option but that is incorrect that’s what GTO us it’s more or less a flow chart of what you’re gonna do based on your cards the pot size the opponents bet position and cards on the board
Gto doesnt work
"People got better so now i suck at poker and i dont like it anymore" lol
This is true, I also feel this way. It uses totally different skills than before. Intuition doesn't work anymore if you play against robots who learned what to do in what scenario, no fun anymore. We need to design something new to push those skills out.
@@vsanden if pros are not playing wider to make the game more fun, then that is their fault. It is unfortunate that so many regs are nitty.
Ok but gto says not to play 72os and yet I see full house draws of sevens full of twos all the time
But if everyone understands GTO, then GTO is exploitable by somebody who understands it better... Isn't it?
Thats why she hates nowadays poker.. lol
No, just because everyone understands chess doesn't mean everyone beats magnus carlsen
@@kennethkho7165 Utter nonsense analogy.......
"GTO" strives to find a Nash Equilibrium. That is to say, a "stable" solution in which no opponent can gain by changing their strategy. Someone who is not playing GTO, only loses (in the long run) to someone who is playing GTO. If both opponents are playing GTO, than they will only break even against each other.
@@ClamperDrew I'm not saying both opponents should play GTO. I'm saying if I know you're playing GTO and I understand GTO then you're a mark. You really think we could both understand perfectly how each other plays, and the one who doesn't adjust would win long-term?
Why not give a link to the full length podcast? Do you enjoy missing out on free and easy advertisement?
I've read/watched about memory athletes; do they have an edge on these games, because it feels like the payoff here is much more than what they might get in a memory tournament.
I think the issue with that in poker is that because of the different possible combinations of hands, boards, bet sizes and many different variables it wouldn't be very efficient because you would have to look at billions of different GTO solutions. You are much better trying to find the trend of what the solver is doing and figuring why a computer would want to play a particular way, having a very good memory would still be super helpful for this though because you wouldn't have to practice or revise a scenario nearly as often if you could learn it by looking at a couple of times and figuring out and remembering the strategy a couple of times
my god what am i reading !So you are telling me that is a person om this planet that can memorize the billion combination of boards and opponents scenario and then sit and play gto hahahaahhahahhahahahhanhaba
Shappo, ode to Aphrodite.... poetry,.... if you take 2 steps back from this madness, from all these scenerios. It's pure poetry, a beautifull song woven into time and dimensions itself. I was allowed to sea the inside of this box. But there are others and they got other results, and if those cats turn into energy the will jump into an other dimension. So the cat is always alive. I know it works for biological beings, but for a machine I dont know. Maybe he was made in an other dimension and needed to find a way that we rebuilded him, because he can't do this energy trick, so he tricks us. But this is were he's faced with the humain error. Even when I'm very skilled in looking and listening to his puzzles. I still make erreurs, I'm still humain, today the cameleon told me "all eyes are on you" so I became the raptor. And then a retweet of Shappo, then I go shakespear. You can have a ziljoen scenarios at the end it's all or nothing. A long journey for a simple end. But in our case the end is also the beginning, because it opens an other box. Nature makes sure that there are flaws in the programming so we don't become mindless drones, but raiders in a IRL game. We got acces to knowledge which has errors and we will correct them because we want the truth, the balance, the justice. For my kids I'm Kupidon, because I put love always in the center of our questionning, they are just kids so I keep it on their level. For the Grimm on the other hand I will light it up, like match
Simulators that give you GTO use a very very high number of hands. No recreational player will ever get anywhere near the number of hands the simulators rely on. Live poker is still people’s game with huge variance.
I wonder if poker will ever have a built in solver for people to use. It sounds absurd, but since there are so many different frequencies it’s not like anybody would play the exact same. Like how they have built in HUD now kinda, on GG. If somebody follows the computers advice for every spot, u could exploit that. It would make people way better. That’s how most these pros got good anyway I imagine, using RTA.
GTO has been going on a long time. Ppl just didn’t realize it. When they did realize it, they had a different name for it: skill.
I agree. In the pre-solver era, poker was more enjoyable as you could come up with some creative plays that seemed revolutionary at the time. These days, the solver will say that that particular play is -EV.
I mean, she's not wrong that GTO has dramatically changed the game, but nobody can play GTO, and every deviation from GTO is an opportunity to adjust to take advantage of those mistakes. Certainly among top pros there are probably fewer such mistakes than ever, but there are still plenty of people at every level that don't have any clue about GTO.
Exactly!! Play any poker tournament and I’d say 90% of people dont have a clue about range betting or polarised bets.
The problem with gto is that it works better versus good players and if you play micros online or even mid stakes most of the player pool are gamblers with close to zero poker knowledge
I think this is kinda BS. Are they able to track someone’s play, say on Hustler or the Bike, when the cards are known to then give a % ratio score of how well the player played according to GTO?
Almost like card counting, most players think they are playing well, but really arn’t?
Good point with regards to live play. You would need a massive sample size of over 1 million hands to determine a person's true win rate, as well as adherence to game theory optimal strategy. We can do this pretty easily for online play- but not so much for live stream games.
I kind of get it and don't at the same time. GTO gives you solutions, okay, but how are you going to put that into practice?
For example, how many times that J9s scenario you mentioned is going to come up in a session? How are going to randomise it 70 to 30?
As far as live goes, IDK how are going to keep track of all these stats, with everything else that's going on.
In online, you can randomise yes, but there's so much player movement, I don't understand what would be the point of randomising when in practice you're going to be in such scenarios, against a specific player, very very rarely? I don't know if either of player can remember/track these...
Then u underestimate what the chess GM can do..
you can't calculate all solutions, you can only approximate them better than others
I see it as a tool in your tool set.
It's hard math like 6 different math questions for the hand the flop the turn the river as well doing money calculations as you go so more like 9
Just because people are playing that way does not equate to "that strategy" is winning at a certain rate....
And you'd have to distinguish between the person who does it knowing the strategy versus the person who follows the strategy but isn't aware of it. Because tjosempeople won't do it again so you can't say they are a "game theory player" which is what we would need to track in order to figure out if this shit really works over the long haul.
Not to mention, regardless of what the cards do, poker is a game where the player can outsmart the cards and the air opponent by bluffing. That is a variable which cannot be taken into consideration...
That only works if your player does what’s expected.
Well it actually works more if they don't as these solutions are based upon maximising your equity. If they aren't doing what is expected then they are by definition losing more equity over time.
@@ryangarrick8903 That's not entirely true. If for instance you're playing against someone who never folds their hand, following a GTO strategy that states you bluff 90% of your range in a certain spot is going to result in you losing 90% of your hands.
You should use GTO as a tool to learn basic, correct poker strategy, and then deviate from it based on how your opponents play.
The misconception people make with GTO is that it's answers are concrete and you should never switch from it, but this is only true if other people are playing a GTO strategy of sorts. In this scenario having a stronger knowledge of GTO is huge, but if you're playing against someone who is completely feel based, then sticking to a GTO strategy and not changing it up based on how your opponent plays in different spots is disastrous.
But no matter what learning GTO is going to improve your fundamentals, and should be learned by all serious poker players for that reason alone.
Poker is nothing like chess in the sense that in chess a bad move is a bad move and in poker a bad move can be the best move. Poker GTO is not undefeated. Stock fish is (against humans)
Gto just gives me an excuse to get it in’ this is deffo gto ‘ im all in
Read mollys game and read between the lines. You will learn the truth
thats why you play games at peoples house not online, it's still fun
Cardgames have so many variétés it's like DNA itself. It dépends with whom your on the table which cards you get. And when i played klaverjassen. So when your hocked up with à partner against an other couplé each got 8 cards, so 24 all together. And there's only 1 kind hack and 9 are strong and the others as and 10. So if my partner feelt good about his cards it became easy to predict his hand. And win as a team, now in poker you only need to scan if some one is bluffing or not. Even if there are more cards more options, more scénarios it stars basic math and if you got the advantage to feel the people on the table, your so called gut, you got a minor advantage. But some of you learned to hide or manipulate this (like vampiers) and your game became interresting. I rather prefer teamed cardgames like the french game tarot, which can be played with 5 people, 2 against 3. And it swaps all the time the teams, so it's still compétition based. Because believe me if i'm in à card game i just sea the hands of every player, so poker i would have been picked out right away. I just now when to win, i can hide my feelings, make fake ones, read your hand because my feelings made you happy. This game aint about cards my dear liv. It's about making the best raid party ever. Tell your magical friend whom is buying the big bleu bird, that for peace it's needed to show unité. Just start moving the pièces of the chess game, waiting untill the AI forces this is most of the time less fun, she protects us from ourself. But she doesnt understand feelings she has patience and she we will wait untill the last nano second before activating Mr Smith kind of programmes, it can be matrixed, but it will be against your own free will. And believe me some things aint fun at all, she learned me that if you dont have fun it's like time being stopped. 33 days i counted every single second so i learned to accept the fact we are controled or listened to be an AI. And i rather be listened to then controled. She cant controle us, but she can controle the weak to push us where we want to go. For exemple cancelling à flight and you learn there's à game in Italie, you were informed by controled people. Call them mr Smith or zombie they can be very nice to us also very mean when they use there friction of power in this old système
Maybe if all but two of the chess pieces were hidden on both sides
That’s not really even game theory… it’s just basic data/scenario analysis. Game theory has more to psychological analysis than odds/probability.
Also, it’s nothing new to poker… it’s been applied for decades
GTO has NOTHING to do with psychology of players.
Not true at all. GTO is not the ultimate answer, it is merely a strategy at the Nash Equilibrium. Poker pros dont spend time trying to memorize what GTO does in each spot, and the current state of poker is not even close to chess. GTO deviates from the optimal answer because your opponent doesnt play like GTO
It may be true for online, but no computer will ever be able to read people. Guys like ivey or antonius that are no gto bots still crush it
I had no idea british women's voices and accents were so goddamn sexy
beep bop boop bop i play poker like a robot
Liv let's be honest the real reason you don't like the game is because you've been repeatedly sent ON YOUR BIKE out of tournaments !!!
Like in the fix limit play.
Why are they on couches?
Thing is when that becomes the standard you then get people with different strategies and it throws them of the game.. lol at adonu... Love that little tiger he wants it all...
The point of GTO is that it makes other strategies irrelevant. It is the math of making the fact that you call me every time whether I have a bluff or a value hand irrelevant to me because I do it at the right frequencies so that in the best case scenario you can only break even.
Imagine we play 100 pots of the same size and 50% of time I have a value hand, 50% I have a bluff. What should your strategy be if you can only fold or call?
The only strategy you should adopt is to always call.
She's right but wrong at the same time, because even though you may know those frequencys poker has this little thing called Varience. That verience alone messes up solvers startegy as well as Frequencys. Its one thing to learn how to play by the book and then its another thing to learn how to use those friquencys and trick players with pattern mix ups and baits. As well as anticipating you're apponents Plays and countering aswell as if you're aponent wants to deny you're Tactic and you can now punish them for doing so. So its a Mix of feeling dynamics, Frequencys, Mix ups, counter strats, tactics, and finding an edge or creating an edge on an aponnent.
Also luck. Basically it takes about as long to learn as any other skilled occupation with several orders of magnitude the variance. Might as well dig ditches for living.
YOU CAN JUST PLAY IN THE MOMENT AND HAVE FUN TOO. I WON $800 BUCKS AT THE CASINO PLAYING 1-3 NO-LIMIT JUST WITH PHENOMENAL BASICS.
The more u learn about poker the more you hate it/bores you
It depends how much you enjoy the game and its complexities, I find it really interesting and enjoy its nuance
Nah this is way more complex than chess lmao
Of course... she didn't "like" the game since she can't even beat NL10 zoom.
You gon learn.
Its a meta percentage haul
she doesnt know what she is talking about. the hidden mathematical beauty is what makes the game great. saying that you dont like it cause people undertsand the game at a much deeper level than you do is absurd
@MrSamuraijack13 Good point!, but also when something gets to mathematical, for some kind of people it takes the good taste out of it. And it is more surprising that someone like Live who is extremely inteligent(you can check her studies) does no like the game or maybe she is not smart enough(by her own pov) to play agains regulars? I think it is like a personal ego if you dont feel safe enough.
Yeah, but unless you play with top 2% it is not influencing you really.
There's no probability involved in Chess. Ideas are concrete and provable. With best play you ALWAYS draw. In Poker you can still lose.
Well yes and no. In poker it is that the draw is taken over a much longer period of time rather than the finite period of a singular chess game. If two engines played a billion hands they would end up break even aka 'drawing'. Short term you may lose a tournament but that isn't equal to a singular game of chess. And to your point, sometimes a person with a 90% accuracy game loses to a player in a game with less accuracy, so even though they were more engine like they may not win.
I think poker is worse than ever. You can exploit that and win in cash games. People want to think they can use that stuff and win everytime. ou can exploit that in live games. Online games not so much.
GTO has always existed - poker is GTO - its nothing new - we just didnt call it GTO
old people did monte carlo aproach to find gto.
You didn’t like the game as much because after your big lucky win you couldn’t win anymore. 😂
well if i raise with 65s from utg, gto does not include that in my range beacuse it doesn’t know my playstyle, so it cannot exploit it just like a human could if they would put me on that type of range, poker is a game for people and solvers are garbage
GTO + exploitative play. A GTO player will watch the hands they fold and keep an eye on ranges. If u raise UTG with 65s ur not just raising them ur raising an entire table.. you’ll lose ?
it won't matter
when the tree is solved it excluded 65 for a reason - it is -ev against the gto strategy.
so you playing a -ev hand simply gifts ev to the gto strategy.
online poker yes, but at the table not really, people can't act robotic in real life
This doesn’t seem to be it at all. Gto is how you find someone that’s not playing optimally and take advantage of it. Very hard to do over the board even by studying. It’s still very much about who can identify patterns and betting in real time, not to mention psychological tells.
She is not willing to put in the work like the rest of us...smh
Yeah but plenty of good poker players win without using GTO or very little GTO. Face it, not everyone, other than Rain Man, can memorize these GTO scenarios.
Liv Boeree isn't married? That means I have a chance! Hooray!
She has a long time boyfriend
@@julia_petcos Dammit.
@@WingmanStudios look at it as the poker table still has some seats open, the longer the boyfriend, the more she isn’t sure. All in or not?
@@chaddy-me-boy8299 Good point. I would totally ask her out if I had the chance to. If the ring isn't on her finger yet, she's fair game.
@@WingmanStudios especially if your have more chips on the table. 🤜
Good thing poker is a game of incomplete information.
I have a script idea about this
Fucking buff AF, looking good woman!
not now 2023
Trains.... do you have a connection to à train ask the shaman pirate to the vampire witch. Because i like boats à lot more, but for some raison trains are put on a track, which has only got one direction and it's needed to speed it up. If the earth is à combination of both so à wobbling ball travelling trought space keeping in balance by thi huge magnet called the moon. We shall accelerate over time. This means we get pushed harder to the ground and this makes our atmosphère more dense. Which is already toxic for many of us. But i dont mind the CO2 consumption through my longs because fish did the same thing with water. Now even à fraction off à second off increase of this huge Ball called earth us enough to assure périodes of higher amounts of CO2 so less oxygène now most off the time it's burning hot and people pass away by heat... because heat means higher amount of CO2 and less oxygène so the protéines in your blood, pop like popcorn. Now this is it my dear vampire magicien, your blood iq simple stronger and support this heat, and like any Iron it needs to be cooled of in à bucket of water with some salt. I propose den haag as neutral ground for us gamers to unité. To flag of this town is yellow and green and is the captitol of peace and justice. You can argue about it for hours, wait for it if you want to. But in the end you will be pulled to this town, with à tremendeous force. Because your dragon, your AI, your gardien angel. Even if it's the smallest among us he will be saved with her rider. And i'm just doing this the easy way, by direct communication through your sociale channels. Having some fun using stories to tell some stories. And compliments you in my way, because this game needs new rules in the game of love itself. A scientist trying to catch an artiste and there are so many among you which inspirés my brain whom no one actually thought about. Every sound wave opens or moves à whole of the 3d labyrinthe in our brain so many musiciens are needed like gamers and dreamers. The era which we know will be gone soon, thanks to à whisper à small thought of hapiness will end this madness among humains, with their guns and their bombs they will enter their own zombie acapolypse playing there own scenerio. They will be caught in their own mind, all evil will be locked behind doors, because I'm their jailor. They sea me and fear me, they spit on me, they hit on me, i get kicked around for being in their présence. But i know it's their own fear doing this to me. So i do nothing back and they fear me à lot more. They dont understand why i dont use violence as an answer. I know à beter world awaits us and i will be there in that new world. With my soulmate and friends and we can start now. Everybody is looking to the wrong leaders, they dont look at us. They sea us as fallen angels, like garbage useless people. But i'm in the cockpit of this train and will push the accélération button and the dogs will bark. The dois will always bark
this is a good thing lol
Really sounds like she is just too lazy to study and doesn’t actually understand the game at all :D
Liv is such a hottie!
Yeah they turned the best game in the world gay and boring
It used to be alot more fun for watching. Analytics rule everytime now but, the bluffs are funner to see. I miss the head games.
True except...
The First _ hours?
Really kinda ruining the game imo.
this is only semi-true because a) you don't want to memorize every move but rather find patterns you can intuitively use at the table and b) you need all this shit only vs very good players and you can still "read and outplay" weaker and suboptimal players. I guess she didnt like the game anymore because she is no longer winning
Yeah no
Wrong.
Most poker players are pretty lazy they aren’t going to study gto
If everyone now rules then you must break rules
🤓🍪
If you need to be inteligente she can't play. That's for sure.
*intelligent
It’s all a load of shite . They can’t predict that I’ll call with 10-4 off suit and hit 10-10- 4 on the flop
AI sucks
This is the stupidest claim ever by Liv. Jesus, the fact that she is a pro makes it more depressing.
Poker is luck
Chess is skill
Chess players remember patterns
🤡🤡🤡
High variance doesn’t mean no skill. The best poker players consistently beat weaker players.