ECHO | Vivid BAD SQUAD × Megurine Luka【KAN/ROM/ENG】Lyrics Color Code | Project SEKAI

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  • čas přidán 3. 05. 2021
  • ECHO | Vivid BAD SQUAD × Megurine Luka【KAN/ROM/ENG】Lyrics Color Code | Project SEKAI
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    ✎ "ECHO" is an original song by CIRCRUSH, a collaboration between Crusher and CircusP.
    ✎ Official cover version for Project SEKAI Colorful Stage! feat. Hatsune Miku.
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    ⛱ Lyrics【KAN/ROM/ENG】& Pictures: projectsekai.fandom.com/wiki/
    ⛱ Single: Vivid BAD SQUAD × Megurine Luka
    ⛱ Written & Composed: Crusher-P
    ⛱ Illustration: Shikimi
    ⛱ Video: YM
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    I am the only video maker and the elements in the video do not belong to me, but this does not mean that you are allowed to take it anywhere without consent.
    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    © SEGA
    © Colorful Palette Inc.
    © Crypton Future Media, INC. www.piapro.net
    商品名および社名は各社の登録商標です。

Komentáře • 382

  • @alyssadunlop9648
    @alyssadunlop9648 Před rokem +491

    It must've been so hard for them to sing in English but like Luka is bilingual so she's a slay
    Edit: tysm for so many likesssss
    Also i still loveee this song and they all tried their best and they all did rlly good like ik if i tried to sing in japanese i would sound horrendous fr

  • @mizzzuki
    @mizzzuki Před rokem +1343

    i love this cover but geez akito's 'please' he sounds like a bass guitar

  • @kesshoujo1357
    @kesshoujo1357 Před 2 lety +1541

    A bit surprised to see a song originally synthesized using a non-crypton vocaloid used here, but this sounds really nice!

    • @gingercat1028
      @gingercat1028 Před 2 lety +63

      Yobanashi Deceive is originally sang by IA, so if you listen to the vocaloid only version she’s in sekai as well.

    • @justaprinny9940
      @justaprinny9940 Před 2 lety +16

      What is a Crypton and non crypton vocaloid

    • @gingercat1028
      @gingercat1028 Před 2 lety +58

      @@justaprinny9940 Crypton is a specific (and the most famous) vocaloid producing company. Their vocaloids include:
      • Hatsune Miku
      • Kagamine Rin
      • Kagamine Len
      • KAITO
      • MEIKO
      • Meguine Luka
      If a vocaloid doesn’t have one of these names, It’s either a UTAU (don’t worry about what that is) or it’s a non-crypton vocaloid.

    • @kesshoujo1357
      @kesshoujo1357 Před 2 lety +24

      @@justaprinny9940 Crypton (and Piapro) is a company which produced the Vocaloids mainly featured in ProjectSekai

    • @littlemen9917
      @littlemen9917 Před 2 lety +12

      I’m surprised that their English is improving and really nice

  • @lynchie2073
    @lynchie2073 Před rokem +2884

    bro they really made them sing a whole song in english 😭 it sounds like they were havin a hard time with pronunciation

    • @therehere222
      @therehere222 Před rokem +86

      True

    • @xmvsuku
      @xmvsuku Před rokem +489

      Akito absolutely slayed with that accent tho

    • @Will_528
      @Will_528 Před rokem +205

      it's funny for me cuz i'm a Brazilian and not fluent at english, so i cant see difference

    • @immarriedtohanakokun8973
      @immarriedtohanakokun8973 Před rokem +326

      They had English teacher for this song and they said they were having hard time and took long time to get it right😅

    • @starquentis
      @starquentis Před rokem +176

      akito and kohane sounds fluent tho

  • @raianabo8158
    @raianabo8158 Před rokem +353

    This *WAS* my *FIRST* GUMI song ever, and I still love this song it’ll be forever in my heart

    • @rairaii_zeruu
      @rairaii_zeruu Před rokem

      me too! this used to be my favorite song and i feel like i'm getting addicted again LMAO

    • @natidmg
      @natidmg Před rokem

      same!!

    • @minecraftgames8085
      @minecraftgames8085 Před rokem +1

      same i heard it in a meme and wanted to know lyrics

    • @Orange_the.funny.
      @Orange_the.funny. Před rokem

      Wait, this song was by Gumi?

    • @Kalnari14
      @Kalnari14 Před rokem

      @@Orange_the.funny.Sang by GUMI* yes

  • @ziyumii.x
    @ziyumii.x Před rokem +522

    Bro I rlly wish akito and toya had their own cover for this song they sound amazing 😭😭 they barely sang help and their voices are barely hearable

    • @oh..umeanher
      @oh..umeanher Před rokem +54

      they’d probably have to practice English some more for that lol

    • @Sp00ksOdyssey
      @Sp00ksOdyssey Před rokem +8

      Same, someone get on that please!! 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

  • @Amia759
    @Amia759 Před 2 lety +987

    I swear their English is better than mine

  • @2yux
    @2yux Před rokem +173

    this is my first time being able to clearly hear akito's background vocals [from 0:50 to 1:03]. he sounds so good...

  • @nikkichan9229
    @nikkichan9229 Před rokem +172

    U can definitely hear the struggle for them to speak English but in Japan fun fact they believe English to be cool so thats why they have a song for them in English then u have Luka who's character sings both Japanese and English

    • @cybxrrrdiva
      @cybxrrrdiva Před 4 měsíci +8

      @@honakanaiscoollol akina, kohanes va, can speak fluent english

    • @nuggetsplace8273
      @nuggetsplace8273 Před 3 měsíci +3

      ​@@cybxrrrdivaOH. THATS WHY SHE SOUNDS SO GOOD COMPARED TO THE REST OK NVM

  • @CactusAreCoolILoveThem
    @CactusAreCoolILoveThem Před 10 měsíci +60

    Kohane literally slayed

  • @lazy125
    @lazy125 Před rokem +260

    Luka slayed on her solo. Love it 🦆🦆❤️❤️

  • @mizukisfave
    @mizukisfave Před rokem +34

    0:50 KOHANE ABSOLUTELY ATE THIS UP AND THE PRONOUNCIATION ILYSM KOHANE

  • @sincerecinnamon
    @sincerecinnamon Před rokem +160

    They all did amazing seeing as they barely have songs in English, although Touya seems to be struggling a bit.

  • @flittystar
    @flittystar Před 3 měsíci +10

    2:12
    WHY DID IT GIVE ME GOOSEBUMPS HOLYYYYY, whoever was in charge of luka's tuning did really well 😭

  • @gachakai.2
    @gachakai.2 Před rokem +348

    I DIDN'T EXPECT THEM TO DO ENGLISH- I THOUGHT THEY ONLY DID JAPANESE-

    • @itz_justc
      @itz_justc Před rokem +5

      SAME IT WAS GOOD

    • @laurenlewis7952
      @laurenlewis7952 Před rokem +10

      Yea some songs have partial English in them- I've been listening to this song for the past 3 hrs lol

    • @COR3.slayzzz
      @COR3.slayzzz Před rokem +4

      Instead of “the trembling fear” i misheard it as “su shi mo ne te”

    • @melsxteaxcake
      @melsxteaxcake Před 8 měsíci +3

      @@COR3.slayzzzhow??

    • @glistica
      @glistica Před 6 měsíci +1

      @@COR3.slayzzz I hear "tribal inking" or "blinking" lol I didn't understand it was trembling, and An's "invisible" sounded a bit off. But it's alright!! They did their best with singing English song even with their jp acent.

  • @_prince_milo_
    @_prince_milo_ Před rokem +69

    The VBS cover got me to like this song again after SIX YEARS

  • @faeriesofia
    @faeriesofia Před rokem +46

    someone : why did you memorize the whole lyrics to this song?
    me : *yes*

  • @tuesantruong372
    @tuesantruong372 Před 2 lety +220

    The clock stopped ticking
    Forever ago
    How long have I been up?
    I don't know
    I can't get a grip, but I can't let go
    There wasn't anything to hold onto, though
    Why can't I see
    Why can't I see
    All the colours
    That you see?
    Please, can I be
    Please, can I be
    Colourful and free?
    What the hell's going on?
    Can someone tell me, please
    Why I'm switching faster than the channels on TV?
    I'm black, then I'm white
    No, something isn't right
    My enemy's invisible, I don't know how to fight
    The trembling fear
    Is more than I can take
    When I'm up against
    The echo in the mirror
    Echo
    I'm gonna burn my house down into an ugly black
    I'm gonna run away now and never look back
    I'm gonna burn my house down into an ugly black
    I'm gonna run away now and never look back
    I'm gonna burn my house down into an ugly black
    I'm gonna run away now and never look back
    I'm gonna burn my house down into an ugly black
    I'm gonna run away now and never look back
    I'm gonna burn my house down and never look back (and never look back)
    And never look back (and never look back)
    And never look back
    What the hell's going on?
    Can someone tell me, please
    Why I'm switching faster than the channels on TV?
    I'm black, then I'm white
    No, something isn't right
    My enemy's invisible, I don't know how to fight
    What the hell's going on?
    Can someone tell me, please
    Why I'm switching faster than the channels on TV?
    I'm black, then I'm white
    No, something isn't right
    My enemy's invisible, I don't know how to fight
    The trembling fear
    Is more than I can take
    When I'm up against
    The echo in the mirror
    The trembling fear
    Is more than I can take
    When I'm up against
    The echo in the mirror

  • @zerosaber2242
    @zerosaber2242 Před rokem +121

    I looked back at the orginal version from Gumi singing Echo and noticed they left something in this audio track. When you play the original, the second half has a 2nd singer in the background with lower volume but higher pitch. This one, has the 3 main singers and I noticed the 4th singer right around 3:03. I assume they didn't record that extra vocal separately.

  • @misaki67
    @misaki67 Před rokem +145

    most people on project Sekai only play this song because its one of the easiest however as soon as I first heard it it became my fav ngl

  • @minecraftgames8085
    @minecraftgames8085 Před rokem +29

    3:25 my heart melted after this part

  • @ghoul4369
    @ghoul4369 Před rokem +88

    people saying this should be a N25 song, in my opinion, no it really shouldn't. because first, it doesn't suit their vibe, yes they are sad- but like their voices wouldn't match good with the song in my opinion. (I am not saying their voices are bad, they all sound amazing.) this song really suits vivid bad squad. (N25 isn't the only group thats genuinely sad.) when you hear their voices you can get a sense of loneliness, their voices fit the mood of the song perfectly. the feeling of sadness,loneliness and some anger. (2:59) all im saying is that this song is literally perfect for them. If u disagree, I could honestly care less.

    • @wonderhoybiggestfan
      @wonderhoybiggestfan Před 10 měsíci +19

      I swear to God people say every song with the slightest bit of sadness should be n25. It gets on my nerves sm

    • @alyziee
      @alyziee Před 9 měsíci +5

      @@wonderhoybiggestfanikr like if that's the case n25 gonna be the whole game's catalog like other groups have struggles too

    • @Wonderhoy347
      @Wonderhoy347 Před 9 měsíci +1

      Think N25 songs are sad. Listen to MMJ....

    • @heatr3d597
      @heatr3d597 Před 7 měsíci +1

      ​​​​​@@wonderhoybiggestfanThe point is not that it's a sad song. It's pretty much a song about depression/anxiety/paranoia/you-name-whichever-mental-health - state-you-wish in its clinical sense. And it just so happens that N25 is the most traumatized group out of them all. You being dismissive of both of these facts isn't helping your case.

    • @sanguinesatellite808
      @sanguinesatellite808 Před 3 měsíci

      @@wonderhoybiggestfan for real!!! im a big n25 fan (they are my favorite group) but they're not the only ones with issues :sob

  • @gumm1w0rmz_error17
    @gumm1w0rmz_error17 Před rokem +93

    THEY SLAYED THIS COVER

  • @FatalisLight
    @FatalisLight Před 2 lety +108

    I... LOVE THIS SONG AAAAA

  • @sigzais
    @sigzais Před 2 lety +89

    kohane and an carried the whole song

    • @oathforblessed
      @oathforblessed Před rokem +6

      ??? I think akito made a good job, too? You do you, ig.

    • @sigzais
      @sigzais Před rokem +14

      @@oathforblessed I DO TOO, I THINK EVERYONE DID A GOOD JOB BUT LIKE I LOVE KOHANE AND AN'S VOICES ALOT I'M SORRY IF I OFFENDED YOU 😕😭

    • @oathforblessed
      @oathforblessed Před rokem +2

      @@sigzais ah ok. I was just thinking that you are one of those who just praise the girls because well, simping for girls only ig? Sorry for misunderstanding!

    • @sigzais
      @sigzais Před rokem +2

      @@oathforblessed it's okay!!!

    • @weItyang
      @weItyang Před rokem +1

      as always tbh 😭

  • @vicoqt
    @vicoqt Před rokem +39

    KOHANE SLAYED THIS SONGGGG

  • @haiyus
    @haiyus Před 2 lety +46

    This is literally the best song

  • @dumbassnicecream563
    @dumbassnicecream563 Před rokem +8

    Stop bc kohanes last "echo in the mirror" is amazing

  • @nobody43815
    @nobody43815 Před rokem +12

    No wonder Luka is the virtual singer here.

  • @hibiii_kase
    @hibiii_kase Před rokem +45

    Toya and Kohane: I'm black and I'm white no something isn't right! My enemie's invisible and I don't know how to fight 🥹🤗💖
    An and Akito: WHAT THE HELL'S GOING ON CAN SOMEONE TELL ME PLEASE 📣😭😼

  • @nutelbread
    @nutelbread Před rokem +25

    the boys sound like they were suffering while singing this 💀

    • @oathforblessed
      @oathforblessed Před rokem +21

      You should listen how Toya sounded singing "Ifuudoudou". I think he was being huld at gunpoint. Here he doesnt so bad, i swear all his good covers are with duo Akito.

  • @user-xy6tm4nq4b
    @user-xy6tm4nq4b Před rokem +6

    やっぱり杏ちゃんの歌ってる声すこ
    単純に声がいい

  • @Sanriogirly543
    @Sanriogirly543 Před 9 měsíci +7

    Luka ✨slayed💅 her solo

  • @galactic_floofycorn8183
    @galactic_floofycorn8183 Před rokem +18

    YO KOHANE AND AN SLAYED THATTT

  • @anshiraishis1fan342
    @anshiraishis1fan342 Před 2 lety +38

    AN ENGLISH ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️ 😫😫

  • @Glammy_49YT
    @Glammy_49YT Před rokem +12

    Why i love English voice in this song?!!
    So wonderful

  • @Sohora_VT
    @Sohora_VT Před rokem +9

    The An voice si beatyfull

  • @lalastuffandthings
    @lalastuffandthings Před rokem +6

    LUKA'S PART OMFGTHIS IS NOT A DRILL TGAT WAS A GIFT FROM HEAVEN ITSSELF

  • @user-sg1dk7mu2z
    @user-sg1dk7mu2z Před rokem +9

    I love this version, very good

  • @aceofclubs.
    @aceofclubs. Před 10 měsíci +12

    This is the first time I have ever thought Kohane’s voice was the most bearable in any cover 😭

  • @sankkokoie
    @sankkokoie Před 8 měsíci +5

    Luka’s voice

  • @rinokay
    @rinokay Před rokem +4

    I LOVE LOVE LOVE THIS SONG

  • @annanuttall6847
    @annanuttall6847 Před 2 měsíci +2

    This song has been stuck in my head for days 😭
    But now i can actually sing it correctly since i kept procrastinating watching a lyric video lol

  • @ultrapromeower
    @ultrapromeower Před rokem +26

    an carried omg

  • @Graydrawing
    @Graydrawing Před rokem +5

    Lukas solo was everything

  • @adamsexton3687
    @adamsexton3687 Před 2 lety +15

    So freaking good!

  • @ShelbyLikesStuff
    @ShelbyLikesStuff Před měsícem +1

    I genuinely love this cover so much. The 2D MV is amazing, the vocals are great and just AH I love

  • @YabbaDabbaDo
    @YabbaDabbaDo Před rokem +36

    I really wish luka’s parts were a bit better but other than that, THIS IS AMAZING!❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤

  • @jacks0618
    @jacks0618 Před rokem +34

    BRO HELP THEIR ENGLISH PRONUNCIATION IS BETTER THAN MINE

  • @TomieNightFever
    @TomieNightFever Před rokem +6

    Kohane slayed this one. Shes the only reason I like this version tbh.

  • @noahbagel69
    @noahbagel69 Před rokem +16

    ITS ALL IN ENGLISH? SLAY!

  • @AkitoFofuraSuperFofinho
    @AkitoFofuraSuperFofinho Před rokem +5

    amo essa versao

  • @sonsssss
    @sonsssss Před 11 měsíci +4

    LUKA SLAYED THIS SONG

  • @kaminashi39
    @kaminashi39 Před rokem +2

    後ろにMVついてるの神

  • @gigiapocalypse
    @gigiapocalypse Před rokem +8

    surprised hearing them singing in english

  • @foxyp-yk
    @foxyp-yk Před 3 měsíci +1

    KOHANE AND AN ATE!!!!!! Luka sounded rlly good too!

  • @zenzuuu
    @zenzuuu Před rokem +2

    Ascending to heaven rn

  • @dlxq8851
    @dlxq8851 Před rokem +14

    Toya suffering with english accent istg 💀

  • @jaysnumber1fan302
    @jaysnumber1fan302 Před 2 lety +29

    An carried

  • @-Hee_Ho_Hey-
    @-Hee_Ho_Hey- Před rokem +12

    This sounds amazing but like...Luka here doesn't sound like Luka,if you told me that voice belonged to a brand new vocaloid I would believe you in a heartbeat

  • @korrazz
    @korrazz Před rokem +15

    Akian carrying as always

  • @everafterbxnnix
    @everafterbxnnix Před rokem +49

    they really should make more songs that aren’t just the boys or the girls singing. like I want an Akito An cover, or a Toya Kohane cover but ig we can’t have the gays interact lmao

  • @Janella712
    @Janella712 Před rokem +4

    This is a very nice song ❤❤❤

  • @agnesteodocio746
    @agnesteodocio746 Před rokem +5

    An singing in English is actually good

  • @oh..umeanher
    @oh..umeanher Před rokem +8

    So it was Luka doing this the whole time…I never paid attention and thought it was Meiko 😭

  • @sorasnowflake3690
    @sorasnowflake3690 Před rokem +7

    Everyone saying N25 shouldve covered this is WRONG! /j
    No but srsly, they probably would’ve killed this cover-but the instrumentals doesn’t match up with N25’s vibe. But yeah, maybe if there were alt vocal covers, N25 would be rlly cool.

  • @jutahongboonleang_ornipa2570

    💜

  • @simpledancer8540
    @simpledancer8540 Před rokem

    Unironically kinda good

  • @randomduck2418
    @randomduck2418 Před 2 lety +10

    Luka carried

  • @TheIStarKing
    @TheIStarKing Před rokem

    🕊️

  • @Rou_256
    @Rou_256 Před rokem +30

    An slayed with that "echo"
    But I really think this is more of a nightcord song. I find it funny how an and kohane sang abt burning their houses down lmao

  • @Sanriogirly543
    @Sanriogirly543 Před 9 měsíci +4

    At first I thought this song was In Japanese but then I listened to it carefully and realized it was English 😳

  • @C0ttnzsq..
    @C0ttnzsq.. Před rokem +4

    HELP I JUST REALIZED I BEEN SINGING NONSENSE TO THIS

  • @Gleaminggem
    @Gleaminggem Před rokem +3

    1:23 np

  • @pinguimnp_looup
    @pinguimnp_looup Před 5 měsíci +1

    Bro the difficult that they had to cover the music in english that I cannot understand nothing, only the "forever ago", and the "what hell is going on?"

  • @jakeshimgf
    @jakeshimgf Před rokem +3

    am i the only one who likes covers of sekais better??

  • @rosaliaxx
    @rosaliaxx Před 9 měsíci +1

    Gah kohane's is so cutee

  • @blackizationz
    @blackizationz Před 25 dny

    0:49-1:00 best part

  • @user-chan833
    @user-chan833 Před rokem +1

    0:34
    0:49

  • @nanqros3
    @nanqros3 Před 11 měsíci +2

    ik yall talking abt the pronunciation BUT IN THE BACKGROUND THE ALTO OMGGGGGGHSJSJ

  • @Star_lessnight
    @Star_lessnight Před 2 lety +8

    KOHANE AND AN

  • @kelvin.36
    @kelvin.36 Před 2 lety +30

    The Clock Stop Ticking

  • @EEEEEAAAAAAohthatsongssad
    @EEEEEAAAAAAohthatsongssad Před 10 měsíci

    in the "Im gonna burn my house down" Part they look very happy

  • @thekaiyakcadillac
    @thekaiyakcadillac Před 7 měsíci +1

    JIENA DONT HURT EM

  • @heidiiguess9271
    @heidiiguess9271 Před rokem +2

    kohane oml

  • @user-xz4vm8wv3n
    @user-xz4vm8wv3n Před rokem +4

    これぞ感動する曲!!(*≧ω≦)♥️♥️♥️

  • @frug8454
    @frug8454 Před rokem +7

    the luka representation is lacking, like girl i wanna hear the queen sing too

  • @KAITOmomota-
    @KAITOmomota- Před 7 měsíci +3

    I wonder if they know "what the hell" or "im gonna burn my house down" means in japanese

  • @bb-lr3bj
    @bb-lr3bj Před rokem

    Luka Megurine Wiggling Her Ears Today. ♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️

  • @NotV3nti
    @NotV3nti Před 9 měsíci +1

    “Touya”

  • @axqwx
    @axqwx Před 5 měsíci +1

    1:04
    2:05

  • @YourbestieBenny
    @YourbestieBenny Před rokem +1

    The first one singing hits different bro 😂😂

  • @PrisonMike196
    @PrisonMike196 Před 2 lety +66

    Wow, is this actually in the game?

    • @user-es4lh9cq9f
      @user-es4lh9cq9f Před 2 lety +8

      Yes

    • @flyaround312
      @flyaround312 Před 2 lety +16

      There are also two alternate duet versions. (The game calls them "covers", but they aren't.)

    • @dreamystars2976
      @dreamystars2976 Před 2 lety +5

      The game name Project Sekai Colorful Stage feat Hatsune Miku

    • @littlemen9917
      @littlemen9917 Před 2 lety +7

      Yes but I wish Echo has Music Video on Hatsune Miku Project Sekai

    • @otakutailgirl7468
      @otakutailgirl7468 Před 2 lety +4

      @@flyaround312 How are they not covers ? I’m confused.

  • @iwannagoh0me.
    @iwannagoh0me. Před rokem +8

    am i the only one who started giggling when toya said "the clzock stopped ticking foweva agoe"

    • @anqelicai
      @anqelicai Před rokem +12

      how about you not make fun of his accent

    • @iwannagoh0me.
      @iwannagoh0me. Před rokem

      @@anqelicai oh right sorry thanks for letting me know

    • @seungberrii
      @seungberrii Před rokem +5

      yes your the only one

    • @wushs3528
      @wushs3528 Před 11 měsíci

      I found it very adorable for some reason, I love Touya's accent so much

    • @wonderhoybiggestfan
      @wonderhoybiggestfan Před 10 měsíci +1

      ​@@anqelicaisomeone's mad

  • @paolajule7524
    @paolajule7524 Před rokem

    Una pregunta porque Luka ya no aparece como parte de este grupo si no que parte del grupo de Hatsune en el juego pj

  • @yzabelledelmoro2062
    @yzabelledelmoro2062 Před rokem

    My sister tought this was japaneese then when she played it she was like, "Oohh now i hear it"

  • @Orange_the.funny.
    @Orange_the.funny. Před rokem +2

    IlovethissongandiloveLuka'spartofthissongthismakesmethinkofthegame

    • @Orange_the.funny.
      @Orange_the.funny. Před rokem

      (I love this song and I love Luka's part of this song this makes me think of the game)

    • @Janella712
      @Janella712 Před rokem

  • @thaotran571
    @thaotran571 Před 8 měsíci +2

    :))

  • @Orange_the.funny.
    @Orange_the.funny. Před rokem

    Why is this song only have 1like (I liked this vid)

  • @bsicstars
    @bsicstars Před rokem +3

    i come from england and these lot sing in english better then i can talk and these are struggling?!