My Honda super cub get 130 mpg and can go 55 mph for 3700 to 3900 depending on where you live and taxes. So other then oil changes tires and brakes that about all that need to be done. So to me its a hard case to make for a bike like this. Maybe I'm wrong and this would be more efficient id really like to know.
If the C1x pack is really in the range of 4-5 kWh (at 72V/55-69 Ah), charging 80% within 1 hour needs (cmiiw) approx. 3.2-4.0 kW of charging power. In the more "advanced" countries, perhaps it would not be a problem. In some "less advanced" countries, the house electricity is capped at 900-1200 VA, and charging stations are hardly available as public infrastructure. A little difficult to charge at home at any rate more than 300-400 W. PS: I find the analyses & calculations done in this video very useful, as I've done a couple of similar stuff with a bit of extra details for some past projects. I just don't understand why a lot of practitioners, including supposedly seasoned engineers, in the EV industry in my country (Indonesia) seem to be quite unwilling to even look at the driving cycles to estimate the autonomy. Almost every "local" brand uses constant velocity cruise (at mostly 25-40 km/h) estimation in their brochures, while in fact it's quite impossible to even cruise at 25 km/h consistently anywhere in Indonesia. In almost all cases, nobody manages to reach the overly optimistic brochure claimed autonomy. I'm a little sad.
If it has a level 2 charger, it’s probably going to push this bike closer to 9k. It’s going to get really competitive if sondors actually pulls through
Yeah, I have a really good feeling that its gonna be over 5k. We're still not at the point where light eMotos are going to compete with small gas bikes on price. Unless maybe you're getting something from alibaba
Thanks for the info/informed speculation. I currently have a Zero SR with level 2 charger, but I'm looking for a 2nd bike for my fiance that is smaller and cheaper. Currently, the KTM Duke 200 is probably the top contender, or maybe a Duke 390 or Kawasaki Z400, but if companies like Sondors and Super 73 can enter the market and compete on specs with a 125-200cc gas bike, and come in no more than 2x the cost, I would love to cross shop. Charging speeds are definitely the achilles heel for any electric motorcycle that wants to be anything more than an urban commuter, though. I roadtripped my ~100mi highway range Zero SR this summer across New England, and 90 minutes riding, 45 minutes charging, 90 minutes riding, and so forth really drags your days out. I took a 3 day weekend over labor day, and it took me a full day each way to get from Montpelier (central VT) to Bar Harbor, Maine and back, roughly 300 miles each way. And that includes combining all food/restroom breaks with charging stops. Anyway, excited to see where the e-motorcycle market goes in the next 3-5 years.
PS for anyone curious. I looked all over the country and spent a couple months shopping for my SR, but managed to find one that I negotiated down to $9500 cash (well, wire transfer). It's a 2018 with the 14.4kWh battery, the Charge Tank (what they call their optional Level 2 charger), and the previous owner had added Givi hard side and top cases, a windshield, and a phone holder/charger. 7800 miles Cost me $1500 to get it shipped from FL to New England and shipping company sucked, but they all do as far as I can tell. I got it in July and in 3.5 months I put over 5000mi on it. About half the chargers are free, the others cost $1-2 per charge, which is 60-80 miles of range (I try to never take it all the way down to empty). So figure $50-60 in total energy costs over 5k miles. It would be lower if I charged at home, but alas I live in an apartment.
I am in loveee with this bike. And I have a reservation. But as it currently stand the battery is not removable. Which will kill it for me. Not willing to take my bike inside the house to store the battery 7 months out of the year :(
I love the look of this bike. Great video excellent information. This bike will be well above the 7k mark I’d say it comes in at 8500. If it’s not that much they are using subpar components. They will have to put a chain guard on it and hopefully it will be easy to remove. They also need to place a plate holder they should look at a side plate style keep that retro feel they have. Most likely the lights will need to be bigger but would like to see after market options like the ones they have now. Hopefully someone who has signed up can do a video on what’s being discussed.
their RX is $4000 out the door. thats just an ebike no license or insurance required. this is a full on motorcycle its going to be at least $6000. sub $9k for sure, id finance one at this point.
Yeah, I think if Sondors isn't showing pictures and video of their production in the next months ahead, lotta people are going to be jumping off. They just need more transparency.
Could you do a quick review of the NIU RQI Sport based on the information that's available. I know it's not delivering yet but I'm torn between the C1x, Sondors and the NIU. Love the videos!
With their proclaimed top speed, it will be faster than the ONYX, but it will be a motorcycle not an electric bicycle. So you'll have to register it and have a moto license to ride legally.
Moving the motor out of the rear hub is huge. It may still be unsprung weight but it's close to the pivot point of the swingarm and has much less effect. I've owned a Zero for a couple years now so there are a few things I've learned. If you can't charge using J1772 charging stations, you will be sorry. This was a $2500. option on my Zero but without it I wouldn't want the bike. Know your charging station's locations before you go. Remember not to count Tesla charging stations because they are proprietary for Tesla cars only. On the other hand, Tesla's can use J1772 chargers and treat them like long-term parking, they are selfish entitled power hogs. Big batteries ruin handling and cost a lot so better to have fast charging than a giant battery. IMO
Needs to be priced 5k or under imho. Nothing special about this bike really apart from its electric which with the price of electricity now makes it not cheap to run .. I like the fact that it can do 75mph even if it will severely limit the range, I have ridden bikes in the past thsy are limited to 40 or 50mph and it's not safe because cars always try to get passed..
They get $3.7k for a bicycle with less than a 1KW battery and 2K watt peak rear hub motor. I think you will be lucky to see a slower and smaller battery version with a first adopter reservation for less than $6k.
I think they'll go the opposite and price it at 5k and above. SUPER73 has a near cult following, so people will certainly dump some cash to get one, purely because of the brand. But I agree, there is nothing special about it. The aesthetics are interesting, but from a performance/motorcycle standpoint, it's just a light duty bike with a higher top speed
@@trowantechworks, But even for the loyalists it means getting this bike registered & licensed. I think that will turn away a significant amount of people.
When is the Sondors Metacycle being released? Sondors said it was supposed to be a 5k bike and before it is even released it is now 6k. By the time they actually deliver them and they aren't vaporware they probably will be 7k. Sondors makes videos but disables comments. You have to pay for the bike in advance but may never actually get it.
Very valid point. There was no mention of cooling yet, but if they are using a small motor and plan to get the performance they spec'd out of it, they will definitely need liquid cooling. Unless they completely oversize it for 30+kW and build in a safe margin. I hope it's the latter, because it would make modding the bike more fun. Think of the power you could unlock..
Uh not sure what you mean. I was saying in the video that you're not going to cruise at 75 mph with a 10kW motor. Gonna need 20kW or more with a higher continous rating. Unless you've got an aggressive cooling system
A small, light and affordable (sub $5000) motorcycle for commuting is what the market needs. Hope all goes well with development and production
Agreed. Just don't know about that sub $5k part..I'd bet money that this bike will be more than 5k for sure.
@@trowantechworks I'm hoping it's not much more, If it's around there I'll 100% buy one
This bike will be 7k or above
I love these videos I have both on order keep up the good work!
Thanks for the feedback! Good luck with your orders 👍
My Honda super cub get 130 mpg and can go 55 mph for 3700 to 3900 depending on where you live and taxes. So other then oil changes tires and brakes that about all that need to be done. So to me its a hard case to make for a bike like this. Maybe I'm wrong and this would be more efficient id really like to know.
5 star content for anyone considering the purchase of a C1x. Tyler 'splains the math. Listen well.
Thanks Gary, much appreciated.
If the C1x pack is really in the range of 4-5 kWh (at 72V/55-69 Ah), charging 80% within 1 hour needs (cmiiw) approx. 3.2-4.0 kW of charging power. In the more "advanced" countries, perhaps it would not be a problem. In some "less advanced" countries, the house electricity is capped at 900-1200 VA, and charging stations are hardly available as public infrastructure. A little difficult to charge at home at any rate more than 300-400 W.
PS: I find the analyses & calculations done in this video very useful, as I've done a couple of similar stuff with a bit of extra details for some past projects. I just don't understand why a lot of practitioners, including supposedly seasoned engineers, in the EV industry in my country (Indonesia) seem to be quite unwilling to even look at the driving cycles to estimate the autonomy. Almost every "local" brand uses constant velocity cruise (at mostly 25-40 km/h) estimation in their brochures, while in fact it's quite impossible to even cruise at 25 km/h consistently anywhere in Indonesia. In almost all cases, nobody manages to reach the overly optimistic brochure claimed autonomy. I'm a little sad.
You are a genius my friend! Awesome video!!!
Thanks Shredder, glad you enjoyed! 🙏
If it has a level 2 charger, it’s probably going to push this bike closer to 9k. It’s going to get really competitive if sondors actually pulls through
Yeah. I'm curious to see if it will be included or offered as an upgrade/mod
Well....Sonders didn't....
if this is anything over 5k, it’s gonna sit. you can get a damn Honda Navi for about 2 grand
Yeah, I have a really good feeling that its gonna be over 5k. We're still not at the point where light eMotos are going to compete with small gas bikes on price. Unless maybe you're getting something from alibaba
I'm pre-emptively claiming the shirt
If it comes with level 2 charging stock it will put it ahead of everyone, even Zero. Hopefully it will give the Fllow a run for the money.
Thanks for the info/informed speculation. I currently have a Zero SR with level 2 charger, but I'm looking for a 2nd bike for my fiance that is smaller and cheaper. Currently, the KTM Duke 200 is probably the top contender, or maybe a Duke 390 or Kawasaki Z400, but if companies like Sondors and Super 73 can enter the market and compete on specs with a 125-200cc gas bike, and come in no more than 2x the cost, I would love to cross shop.
Charging speeds are definitely the achilles heel for any electric motorcycle that wants to be anything more than an urban commuter, though. I roadtripped my ~100mi highway range Zero SR this summer across New England, and 90 minutes riding, 45 minutes charging, 90 minutes riding, and so forth really drags your days out. I took a 3 day weekend over labor day, and it took me a full day each way to get from Montpelier (central VT) to Bar Harbor, Maine and back, roughly 300 miles each way. And that includes combining all food/restroom breaks with charging stops.
Anyway, excited to see where the e-motorcycle market goes in the next 3-5 years.
PS for anyone curious. I looked all over the country and spent a couple months shopping for my SR, but managed to find one that I negotiated down to $9500 cash (well, wire transfer). It's a 2018 with the 14.4kWh battery, the Charge Tank (what they call their optional Level 2 charger), and the previous owner had added Givi hard side and top cases, a windshield, and a phone holder/charger. 7800 miles
Cost me $1500 to get it shipped from FL to New England and shipping company sucked, but they all do as far as I can tell.
I got it in July and in 3.5 months I put over 5000mi on it. About half the chargers are free, the others cost $1-2 per charge, which is 60-80 miles of range (I try to never take it all the way down to empty). So figure $50-60 in total energy costs over 5k miles. It would be lower if I charged at home, but alas I live in an apartment.
I am in loveee with this bike. And I have a reservation. But as it currently stand the battery is not removable. Which will kill it for me. Not willing to take my bike inside the house to store the battery 7 months out of the year :(
I love the look of this bike. Great video excellent information. This bike will be well above the 7k mark I’d say it comes in at 8500. If it’s not that much they are using subpar components. They will have to put a chain guard on it and hopefully it will be easy to remove. They also need to place a plate holder they should look at a side plate style keep that retro feel they have. Most likely the lights will need to be bigger but would like to see after market options like the ones they have now. Hopefully someone who has signed up can do a video on what’s being discussed.
their RX is $4000 out the door. thats just an ebike no license or insurance required. this is a full on motorcycle its going to be at least $6000. sub $9k for sure, id finance one at this point.
It’s going to be hard to get on board with Sondors a year and a half in and still no roll out
Yeah, I think if Sondors isn't showing pictures and video of their production in the next months ahead, lotta people are going to be jumping off. They just need more transparency.
@@trowantechworks they are supposed to be updating very soon,within the next 3 weeks. I’m on the 1st round signature series batch
I like your style. Great info.
Thank you so much. Glad you enjoyed.
Could you do a quick review of the NIU RQI Sport based on the information that's available. I know it's not delivering yet but I'm torn between the C1x, Sondors and the NIU. Love the videos!
interesting wonder how itll stack up to the onyx
With their proclaimed top speed, it will be faster than the ONYX, but it will be a motorcycle not an electric bicycle. So you'll have to register it and have a moto license to ride legally.
Wow..you really know your sh#t..& you’re a funny guy & make me laugh..love the Arnie impression 😁👍😂😂
Moving the motor out of the rear hub is huge. It may still be unsprung weight but it's close to the pivot point of the swingarm and has much less effect. I've owned a Zero for a couple years now so there are a few things I've learned. If you can't charge using J1772 charging stations, you will be sorry. This was a $2500. option on my Zero but without it I wouldn't want the bike. Know your charging station's locations before you go. Remember not to count Tesla charging stations because they are proprietary for Tesla cars only. On the other hand, Tesla's can use J1772 chargers and treat them like long-term parking, they are selfish entitled power hogs. Big batteries ruin handling and cost a lot so better to have fast charging than a giant battery. IMO
Or just say how much power need to reach the following speeds
1. 28mph
2. 40mph
3. 53mph
4. 62mph
Keep the cerebral content coming
Thanks for the feedback. I'll keep cranking content out
How much you think it'll cost?
It's an electric grom
Needs to be priced 5k or under imho.
Nothing special about this bike really apart from its electric which with the price of electricity now makes it not cheap to run ..
I like the fact that it can do 75mph even if it will severely limit the range, I have ridden bikes in the past thsy are limited to 40 or 50mph and it's not safe because cars always try to get passed..
They get $3.7k for a bicycle with less than a 1KW battery and 2K watt peak rear hub motor. I think you will be lucky to see a slower and smaller battery version with a first adopter reservation for less than $6k.
@@EssPhour yep I'm sure you are right, be a good while till we see prices that I consider reasonable lol.
I think they'll go the opposite and price it at 5k and above. SUPER73 has a near cult following, so people will certainly dump some cash to get one, purely because of the brand. But I agree, there is nothing special about it. The aesthetics are interesting, but from a performance/motorcycle standpoint, it's just a light duty bike with a higher top speed
@@trowantechworks, But even for the loyalists it means getting this bike registered & licensed. I think that will turn away a significant amount of people.
LMAO !!! Good stuff ! Keep em coming.
Can I get the graph
Damn. This info. I’ll buy a bike from YOU. Forget super 73 🤣
Don't tempt me. I'd love to build something the community actually wants.
Take my money
does gear ratios factor in on anything?
When is the Sondors Metacycle being released? Sondors said it was supposed to be a 5k bike and before it is even released it is now 6k. By the time they actually deliver them and they aren't vaporware they probably will be 7k. Sondors makes videos but disables comments. You have to pay for the bike in advance but may never actually get it.
It's gonna be like 8gs, bro! Let's be real. Still fairly priced to me, but I can't speak for everyone
sondors metacycle is 14kW peak and supposed to hit 85 mph. that doesn't seem to fit on your model ?
I'm not quite sure what your question is. We don't have power specs for the C1X yet, but they are going to need more than 14kW to hit 85 mph.
But will it wheelie?
I could make it wheelie, I'll yell ya that
How much yall wanna bet its gonna cost $7300
If it doesn't have water-cooling it will overheat quick
Very valid point. There was no mention of cooling yet, but if they are using a small motor and plan to get the performance they spec'd out of it, they will definitely need liquid cooling. Unless they completely oversize it for 30+kW and build in a safe margin. I hope it's the latter, because it would make modding the bike more fun. Think of the power you could unlock..
That seat does not look comfortable.
I would laugh my ass off if they sell it for 7,300
Haha what a perfect opportunity to introduce "special" prelusive pricing
You don’t need a 22kw continuous motor to 22kw continuous lol.
Uh not sure what you mean. I was saying in the video that you're not going to cruise at 75 mph with a 10kW motor. Gonna need 20kW or more with a higher continous rating. Unless you've got an aggressive cooling system