Neil Kinnock on PR: Thatcher's win in 1983 convinced me we needed PR
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- čas přidán 21. 06. 2023
- Neil Kinnock admits that he supports a change in the voting system - but that he couldn't carry say so when he was leader.
Join us for the next instalment of our Unlocked series, as Professor Anand Menon sits down with former Labour leader, European Commissioner and stalwart of British politics, The Rt Hon Lord Kinnock.
Neil will be joining us to reflect on his time as Labour leader and assess Keir Starmer’s chances of getting the keys to number 10 at the next election, consider Britain’s place in the world after Brexit, and give his take on the state of British politics.
I'm still baffled as to why people rejected AV in the referendum. I wasn't in the UK at the time, so I don't know what people were thinking.
FPTP has many pros and cons. As does PR.
It just brings coalition building to within parties, pre public vote. Rather than between parties, behind closed doors, post vote / public not involved.
Literally zero people voted for the current German (generally put forward as good example of PR) government. Because it wasn't on the ballot paper.
Actually under PR (i.e. in New Zealand) it's usually pretty clear before the election which parties are going to team up - it's then a question of the relative strength of the parties in question. The idea of a group of people in smoke filled rooms agreeing on a government after a PR election is just nonsense on stilts. FPTP also means that only the votes in a handful of marginal constituencies count.
@@yampk1 How many times has tiny New Zealand First been the one to decide the election between the two big blocks?
@@martinx234
Even further, I think the biggest con of FPTP is we don't really know if the greens would poll 13% or 3% if true first choice votes.
A majoritarian system like FPTP avoids extremist governments more. As no as far right or left party in government in UK as parties that do make part of government in say Italy, France even Sweden. We have centre right and centre left, quite boring. Most European countries, eg Germany, have "far-right" parties with 10-15% of seats.
If you have substantially less than 50% of the vote then you should have no business in holding a parliamentary majority. It's a bit of an odd take you have about "smoke filled rooms" with PR. The whole term "smoked filled rooms" is itself an anachronism that belongs in the past. Under PR, you are essentially voting for your party to take part in any such negotiations. They have your democratic mandate just as much as in FPTP. PR is simply representative democracy doing a more thorough job.
I wouldn't expect Labour to invest in the outcomes of the Australian Labor Party which was up and running 30 years before Labour in Britain, because, where would Britain be without social and political myopia? Suffice to say, preferential voting, which has been part and parcel of Australian government for more than a century, gives a fairness which PR can't ever give: it ensures a vote is never wasted and actually allows voters to vote against a candidate. But then, why follow Australia in a hurry? The Australian law of the 1860's mandating an eight hour working day had to wait for quite a few years to be mirrored in Britain, votes for women in Britain had to wait 30 years after Australia, no fault divorce 50 years, and abolishing titles which Canada and Australia did 50+ years ago would be eternally impossible in Britain
Utter utter nonsense - the Australian preferential voting system locks out minor parties almost entirely from the HofReps. As for every vote counting - putting a first preference for a minor party, such as the Greens, eventually filters back to elect the ALP or the LNP candidate on the back of sometimes very grubby preference deals. The fact that Australia had votes for women in the 1890s? Well how long did it take a woman to be elected to the lower house, let alone become a government minister? Lastly, Tony Blair studied the swing to the right of the ALP under Hawke and Keating intently, in fact, his entire approach was largely lifted from Keating's, right down to the love affair with Murdoch
Australia has a worse system than first past the post. 32.5% of the first preference vote for a majority? Horrendous! It's lead to far greater two party domination than in the UK and Canada and it thankfully failed in referendum in 2011 decisively. Funny to accuse others of 'myopia' without knowing we had had a referendum on the very issue relatively recently 😄
Never do PR.