Creation of the Paris Commune & Its Communist Myth
Vložit
- čas přidán 20. 08. 2020
- Project France playlist- • Project France
_________________________________________________________________
Maximilian of Mexico (Austrian Emperor)- • The Austrian Emperor o...
My second channel M. Laser Random- / mlaser2 where I just upload random videos from game-plays to vlogs and more.
My Patreon- / mlaser
My Twitter- / mnlaser
Music- Brian Crain: Song for Sienna
Video scripts with sources are available for free on my Patreon.
For extra historical information and corrections see the pinned comment.
_________________________________________________________________
Duke tier Patreons
-Sahni
_________________________________________________________________
#History #ProjectFrance #Paris
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Extra Information & Sometimes Corrections if Needed !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Project France Playlist- czcams.com/play/PLsGkrS0GwoS6ivoJge_lU8dXys0AqIKlK.html
0:46 There where also sizable republican movements (and in some socialist movements) in other major cities in France at the time. But Paris was by far the most leftist of these cities harboring the largest number of Marxists, Anarchists, etc.
1:12 Brother not son.
2:10 Wrong picture for Copenhagen and the Danish 1848 revolution. This is the correct picture- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_Revolution_(Denmark)#/media/File:Folketoget_i_K%C3%B8benhavn_1848.jpg
3:05 Jacobins not to be confused with the Jacobites and Jacobitism which was an English political movement not French.
3:49 Hotel De Ville was the main administrative building of Paris at the time and held the council of National Defense and later the council of the Commune. It also held all Paris records which where destroyed along with the building in a fire during the bloody week. It is unknown who started the fire.
3:57 Also the wages of workers and worker conditions during the Second French Empire fell drastically in Paris. Baron Haussmann notes that more than half of Parisians live in "poverty bordering on indigence", even if they work eleven hours a day.
8:16 'Memoirs of Louise Michel', page 61
9:29 It is debated whether 4 of those moderate leftists from Paris where actually radicals or not as some of their ideas where more liberal rather than Marxist or Anarchist, therefore in the video I say they're all radical while showing the more nuance debate with an asterisks on the screen.
With that said all of them where for the continuation of the war.
Same debate goes for the monarchy supporters and how really monarchist where some of them as in the end the council did establish the Third French Republic not a monarchy, even though the council had a majority of monarchists.
9:44 1830 not 1930 obviously.
12:01 The picture of the kids actually comes from Paris during the Second French Empire to showcase just how bad the condition for lower class people in Paris where (even kids had to work to sustain the family). But the idea is there as after the siege Paris was economically in a disaster and this disaster hit the lower classes the most.
12:59 This is usually given as the starting date for the commune.
13:06 Paris did elect mayors for various areas of the city in November 1870, this was done by the Government of National Defense to placate the Parisians, however these mayors where directly responsible to the government and there was no city council so in effect the mayors acted as just middle man for the main government control of the city.
13:25 It wasn't even the first time a commune was declared in Paris, there was a commune in Paris during the first french revolution as well, although this one didn't have such a socialist charter as the one in 1871 for obvious reasons
14:34 'Memoirs of Louise Michel', page 217.
16:53 Ok the commune did nationalize some stuff but never any factories or big businesses or the bank. They nationalized things like Thiers' house in Paris which they then sold off with all the possession in it. All the restarting of production and self management by workers was meant to start up the economy of the city despite the fact that many business and factories where closed by their owners who left the city due to fears of an insurrection. The laws were meant to be temporary to give people work not revolutionary or communist.
18:33 Jacques Rougerie, who had earlier accepted the 20,000 figure, wrote in 2014, "the number ten thousand victims seems today the most plausible; it remains an enormous number for the time."
Rougerie, Jacques, La Commune de 1871," p. 118
The Paris Commune wasn't even unique in that period as other cities like Marseille and Lyon also established independent administrations in the aftermath of the Franco Prussian war. These cities where just like in Paris divided among more radical people and less radical people. But none of them came to be communist as portrayed by Marx or Engels.
19:33 Engels also praised the Commune as did Lenin and many other socialists. However there where some on the left that criticized the commune and also not all praises made by the men mentioned where necessarily fully positive as all of them had their own opinion as to why the commune didn't succeed even though it was so "perfect".
19:33 To all those Marxist in comment section arguing that Marx never praised the commune or never said it was communist. To the first one look at the quote from Marx's Civil War in France on the screen, it's a clear statement that Marx did in fact praise the Commune. Second another quote from the same piece by Marx "The Commune, they exclaim, intends to abolish property, the basis of all civilization! Yes, gentlemen, the Commune intended to abolish that class property which makes the labor of the many the wealth of the few. It aimed at the expropriation of the expropriators. It wanted to make individual property a truth by transforming the means of production, land, and capital, now chiefly the means of enslaving and exploiting labor, into mere instruments of free and associated labor ... if it is to supersede the capitalist system; if united co-operative societies are to regulate national production upon common plan, thus taking it under their own control, and putting an end to the constant anarchy and periodical convulsions which are the fatality of capitalist production - what else, gentlemen, would it be but communism, “possible” communism?"
By the ending of that quote it's clear that Marx did in fact saw the Commune as communist or at least having a possibility to achieve communism which is all that matters in the point of the video. The fact that Marx praised the commune and called it communist (or possible to achieve communism) meant that the Commune became very mythical in the eyes of later communists like Lenin. Which I wanted to point out wasn't true as the Commune was never really communist despite the saying of the USSR or even today's Communists. It wasn't even marxist or as said in the video a whole revolution of the proletariat as pointed out by Marx (if you choose to disregard the communist point) that's what the video was pointing at.
The funny thing is that the information Marx had about the commune wasn't very accurate. His sources of information were either news papers which were very hyperbolic and portrayed the commune as either perfect or as the spawn of evil and from his son in law who visited the Commune as an ambassador of the First International. Marx's son in law account of the commune and what he saw is so inaccurate that historians today don't even treat it as a primary source about the commune because it does not agree with any other sources from the Commune. He basically made the Commune seem far more communist and idealistic than it actually was. This is also partly the reason why Marx was so positive about the Commune.
So in the end the funny thing is the information about the Commune that made Marx rethink a lot of his ideas wasn't actually very accurate. I bet there is some sort of a philosophical angel here about truth, subjectivism, and objectivism but that's beyond my scope.
On top of all the deaths, the loss of Paris' historical records makes it so much harder to do research on the city's history.
Still here from Oversimplified
@conde loppeux Pilbeam, Pamela M. (2000). French socialists before Marx : workers, women and the social question in France. Montreal: McGill-Queen's University Press.
Harison, C., ‘The Paris Commune of 1871, the Russian Revolution of 1905, and the Shifting of the Revolutionary Tradition’, History and Memory, vol. 19, no. 2, 2007, pp. 5-42.
Bernstein, S., ‘The Paris Commune’, Science & Society, vol. 5, no. 2, 1941, pp. 117-147.
More sources are in my script which available for free on my Patreon.
@@MLaserHistory It would seem that the citizens of Paris had great difficulty coming to terms with the fact that the owverwhelming majority of the French population who lived outside their city wanted the country to go in a different direction. Rather than accept that they had lost the general election and try again next time they created a socialist fantasyland that couldn't last, and didn't.
Crafting a narrative of 1848 june day revolution as "Paris vs rural France" and whole political fight as "repulican Paris vs monarchist/conservative rural France" is just not true. Read "18th of Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte".
France lost its army, its capital being sieged, its emperor captured, it's new republic has no option but to surrender.
Paris: I didn't hear no bell.
Mad lads
YES!
"It'll work because we say it will." Typical commie thought.
The rest of France should be ashamed of itself
Is it better to say that the commune influenced Marxism more than Marxism influencing the commune
Yes, I would say that is accurate.
The funny thing is that the information Marx had about the commune wasn't very accurate. His sources of information were either news papers which were very hyperbolic and portrayed the commune as either perfect or as the spawn of evil and from his son in law who visited the Commune as an ambassador of the First International. Marx's son in law account of the commune and what he saw is so inaccurate that historians today don't even treat it as a primary source about the commune because it does not agree with any other sources from the Commune. He basically made the Commune seem far more communist and idealistic than it actually was. This is also partly the reason why Marx was so positive about the Commune.
So in the end the funny thing is the information about the Commune that made Marx rethink a lot of his ideas wasn't actually very accurate. I bet there is some sort of a philosophical angel here about truth, subjectivism, and objectivism but that's beyond my scope.
@@MLaserHistory truth is more stranger than fiction. But fiction spreads faster.
@@MLaserHistory to be fair, Marx's criticisms of the commune were fair. He may have been misinformed about the scale of the social change, but the Prudhonist (moderate anarchism as Wikipedia accurately describes it) voluntarism, which affected the tactics and actions of the commune essentially reached Marx.
I'd say that ideologically, the leadership of the commune was left wing (not marxist per say but aligned with them) led to them being opposed to seizing industries and nationalising or collectivising them (right of employees to take over and run an enterprise if it were deserted by its owner; the Commune, nonetheless, recognised the previous owner's right to compensation), as well as other revolutionary reforms such as abolishment of rent. This led to compromises such as negotiating with the government, or their stance on a potential civil war ("commune leaders were still convinced that, as at Montmartre, French army soldiers would refuse to fire on national guardsmen." On the march to Versailles, they were unprepared due to such idealistic beliefs).
I'd say that although overblown, such information was available for Marx. I say this since it was a decisive issue in the split of the international, between anarchist tactics and more pragmatic policies supported by Marx.
Of course the commune was far later socialist states. But I'd say that more or less it was a left wing revolt, that helped marxists to refine their tactics into today's communism. Nothing is static after all.
I'd say I disagree not with the context of the video (with exceptions), but with the conclusion. You might say that I'm just another rambling Marxist (as I've seen on other comments of yours), but I'd say my close relation with the subject matter allows me and others to offer a unique perspective.
@@Kolokommouna Those are fare points. What I was trying to say I guess is that calling the Commune Marxist or communist isn't entirely accurate as the picture is far more nuanced since there where people within the commune and even it's committee that would not be happy if they were called as such. But also as I said in the video it was definetly leftist and a new thing. I was just going against modern Marxist and communist idealized ideas of the Commune which often lack any kind of nuance.
@@MLaserHistory no communist idealizes the Paris commune it is just seen as the first attempt of workers trying to liberate themselves it is not seen as Marxist or as a perfect society far from it. It is just the first attempt of the working class to free themselves
Legend has it the Prussians are still camping in front of Paris
That's some dedication to their work :p
They came out in 1914
@@smokyondagrass2353 just to burn down more of france
hi
@@autumnchan9225 oh hello friend
The famous communist red flag actually comes from France at this era. It almost became the French flag if Alphonse Lamartine had not defended the tricolor flag in an absolutely stunning speech, I recommend people to read it !
Funny story the Russian communist before having their anthem sang La Marseillaise (the French anthem) and Lenin and Stalin viewed themselves as the soviet versions of Danton and Robespierre.
oh yeah thats the "went round the world in triumph" speech isnt it
Considering the later actions of Robesprierre... not that far of a differencr innit?
@@yochaiwyss3843 Well Robespierre was very far from a left wing man as we see it today, he was strong in favor of the right of property for instance. And people often mistake statist politics with socialism but it's not that easy in France. :)
@@tonyhawk94 Yes indeed, the French Revolution was fueled by the liberals ideals of the enlightment, wich defended individual rights against the state, the right of property is one of them. It will only be in the 19th century, following the industrial revolution that what we consider far left nowadays appeared. But in their time, the revolutionnaries were at the far left of the political spectrum. Our idea of what far left is changed over time.
Just for precision's sake, Lamartine's speech occurred more than twenty years earlier, during the establishment of the Second Republic in 1848.
Bruh imagine being a German soldier and you see the French killing each other
Presumably they watched while munching on popcorn...
no wonder french german rivalry ran deep.....this is fucking humiliating
Wouldn't be a Latin country if they didn't kill each other, it's a Roman tradition
@@hyperion3145 oh wow every latin country has done this with maybe romania and portugal is an exception.
"Can you come back in, like, 40 years or something? We're busy here."
"Ganz gut."
Honestly I had no clue how much chaos was happening before and during the Commune. Great video!
"Flew over the siege line in a balloon" an extremely frenchvway to escape a siege.
SIGMA RULE 174: Only dethrone the old King to install yourself as Emperor.
The rebuilding of Paris by Napoleon III was largely meant to prevent further revolts. Narrow, winding streets were easy to barricade so they were widened and straightened. These long straight streets were connected by open plazas that were intended to be artillery parks that would have a clear field of fire from one plaza to another. Essentially Paris was turned into an inside-out fortress designed to control its revolting inhabitants.
Makes sense from a military point of view. Small problem is that one then prepares for the next revolt, not actually prevent.
Gentrification will not help in preventing revolts. It will only cause them.
So basicly make Paris a city state and France will become more stable?
Not necessarily as I stated in my extra info comment there where other large French cities that went through the same thing but on a much smaller scale.
It is more about the age old division between the rural and urban areas.
@@MLaserHistory thanks for answer, (but my stupid coment was more meant as a joke ; D)
@@JMM33RanMA yeah and whats stupid is how the right here refer to themselves as the "silent majority" when no cities in each state usually are more left leaning and have higher populations than the rest of the state. Also poor right wingers dont view themselves as being poor. They're just temporarily non millionaires lol
Jay McJakome yes, it’s years of poorly funded education in the rural areas which reinforces these beliefs. If only urban Americans were as blood thirsty as the french... every time France does something to piss off its citizens they seem to go out in groves and protest / riot. Here, we have to fight to even get people to support peaceful protesting. Lol
@@JMM33RanMA Not to be that guy but honestly it's not like the urban populace of the nation isn't also overtly casting a voice on issue's from a place of ignorance and overwhelmingly wrong about. And by this base quite a lot of thing's that effect a rural communities financial health are overreach of bureaucratic urban politicians. The culture war is out there as well from the completely differing perspectives on life and poverty, in rural communities poverty isn't that difficult and is manageable compared to urban areas more dangerous and cyclical in it's process. The urban liberal part of the nation is sort of held a stereotype of shallow selfish pretentiously intellectual people that as of yet has no practicality to their mindset nor moral foundation with all their idealism being spouted but no results coming from it. They have abused their influence on rural people across the country out of idealistic policies that are very harsh to rural populations without having any excuse besides that it sounds like the good thing to do even if they know nothing about the subject. Silencer's of guns and regulation hunting are examples of what urban populations are utterly ignorant of and they impose unnecessary ban's that hurt rural communities without bringing any benefit nor protection to anyone involved.
The relationship of socialism and the commune is close-knit because of a simple fact: The commune was the first popular revolt headed by the social class which socialist ideology mainly appealed to, the urban poor or proletariat. Of the 400k people in paris, 200k participated in the elections for the new commune, mostly from the arrondissements (city districts) of the urban poor.
In practice, it had the intention of keeping itself as an entity under the French government while espousing social democrat ideals for the new commune, but the government of the commune had little control over one of its most important parts: The National Guard.
This brings us to one very important moment which the video did not mention: that the national guard tried to storm Versailles at one point, being easily repulsed by the French standing army. They thought a frontal assault would do it, but the standing army had prepared for the eventuality of an attack (either by newly emboldened Prussians or the much more likely option of riled up communards). This gave grounds for the army to enter Paris and in comes the bloody week.
The numbers of the bloody week are debated and, if the rather well accepted toll of 20k is to be believed, means that 10% of the people that supported the commune and 5% of the entire Parisian population was killed.
As well, the role of women, testified by the survivors of the bloody week, has been huge in the commune, but it is hard to encase everything in one video, I must agree. There are tales of young women going around the city during the bloody week trying to help wounded people who had been shot by the army or by radicalized communards.
If anyone wishes to learn more of the commune after this awesome introduction by M. Laser, please give the wikipedia article a read, it's a much more in-depth summary of the events taking place during these two and a half months of Parisian idealism.
Seeing another long comment I was like great another marxist here yelling at me that I misrepresented marxist ideas or communism or something else I don't know, but thankfully actually a nice comment :)
Yeah I do admit (even at the end of the video) that I had to skip over a lot of things, such is the nature of a video even if its 20 min long. I sadly couldn't talk about the involvement of women in the commune which was very critical, or the independent actions of the National Guard like the very poorly thought out, planned, and executed mostly due to a fervent zeal, attack on Versailles without actually given the go ahead from the Commune's council which debated on what to do next, or the structure change the commune made in it's latter half of existence, or Versailles government strong propaganda actions against the commune, or the many people in Paris who in fact where waiting for all of this to blow over as they weren't really that radical, or the debate about who burned the Hotel de Ville, or the destruction of the Vendôme Column, or the burning of the guillotine, I could go on for ages.
Basically the point of the video was to show that the Commune wasn't so communist as it was believed to be by the USSR or even by people today, hence I had to skip stuff that didn't really relate to it that much.
Therefore as @SolidSneig said reading the wikipedia article is a good start if you want to know more about the commune and if you can read French reading the French wikipedia article instead as it has much more information in it than the English one.
M. Laser History I was listening earlier this evening to an episode of Revolutionary Left Radio “The Paris Commune: A Brief Blossoming of Proletarian Power” with Mitchell Abidor. Excellent supplement to this line of discussion.
@@brentoneccles John Merriman's lecture on it is good too
I do enjoy Merriman's lecture on the Commune even if his biases are rather blatant.
I do recall however that there was a few recent articles by Robert Tombs trying to make sense of the 20k figure and I believe that he came to the conclusion that the actual figure was around 7.5k through the cross referencing of Cemetery reports, known burial sites and reports from casualty clearing stations, whilst his methodology _does_ leave room for error (since he takes the proportions as a whole from certain data points and extrapolates) I certainly buy into the idea that 20k which first appears as a maximum bound estimate by the General commanding Versaillais forces in the immediate aftermath of the campiagn is an overestimation. It should be noted though that 7.5k dead of various causes would still put the per day casualty rate for Communard forces at twice that of the _Battle of VERDUN_ So it is certainly easy to see why La Semaine Sanglante left such an indellbile mark on the psyche of working class paris and why 20k would seem to be an accepted figure by them. A link to Tombs' article. www.h-france.net/Salon/Salonvol3no1.pdf
Morphing Reality yes, Merriman is great too!
*Govt of National Defence:* *_We are the State!_*
*Bismark:* *_giggles_*
*Govt of National Defence:* *_Nervous Sweating_*
Great video it was awesome of you to setup this collab for us!
Thanks.
The colab could have gone a bit better but ou well still better than nothing :)
*Sees 20 hours early comment:*
*Impossible*
@@webkeylocknope9691 How could this be!?
Parisians: let’s establish a republic where the people will choose their own destiny
People: *choose to vote for monarchist*
Parisians: wait that’s illegal
I hate to say it but, it sounds like Brexit?
@@jamessales9047 or the Egyptian revolution of 2011, where the Muslim Brotherhood won the first free election.
The uneducated/religious are usually Reactionary...they want a "daddy" to take care of them.
@@MaitreKorda *doesn't
this is the USA every time we knock over an authoritarian/communist state... look free elections, so long as you vote the way we want you to.
The election turnout was poor.
I just read an absolutely fantastic historical novel, In the Shadow of the Fire, by Herve Le Corre, set in Paris during the Commune. I had no idea about any of this history! What an amazing and devastating story. Thanks for the excellent context in this video.
The amount of work that goes into these videos is insane, amazing work!
Brief correction, Marx didn't view the Commune as a "communist state" but as an example of what a "dictatorship of the proletariat" would look like, i.e., a society where the working class as a whole held absolute power. It actually caused him to completely reevaluate his position on the state, later writing that much of the proposals in the Communist Manifesto, especially relating to nationalisation, had become antiquated.
And those Antiquated Propositions are still being followed by Modern Day Marxist..
what kind of ideology will dictatorship of the proletariat lean on
I am extremely happy that you talked about this. It’s an extremely interesting topic.
An other interesting topic would be about the “Frisian Freedom” or the lack of feudal structure in Frisia during the medieval ages. A truly unique and interesting phenomenon.
I don't know if this has been already mentioned, but the Paris Commune in many ways was a very nationalistic event, as well. Many of the workers who participated in the Commune would later become supporters of the ultranationalist Boulangiste movement and many French Fascist parties regurarily celebrated the memory of the Paris Commune.
Why?
Well at the time, nationalism was more on the left side of the politcal spectrum, so makes sense
Because the Fascists saw it as a national regeneration movement, involving all social classes in a socialist nationalism.
The Paris commune is quite interesting because outside of France and communist countries, it wasn’t well known, except for historians. Within communist countries, it is taught according to their ideological line. Thus, I think most people who watches the video probably knows the commune as that event in the French aftermath of Franco Prussian war. The rest, the minority, probably educated in communist country or self-proclaimed communist read about it from communist writers, have the image that the commune is as a revolutionary communised state.
The remarkable thing, to me, is that the Prussian casualty at Sedan during the Franco Prussian war was probably only 1.5 times more than the amount of people died during the Bloody Week. That’s pretty remarkable.
Yeah. That definetly is the case. In regards to the polarization of the commune and the teachings about it that is. For example, in Slovakia (former communist Czechoslovakia) the commune was still taught from a more communist view point but after making this video I noticed that it is taught differently in different countries.
This year there was actually an interesting article (written by a good friend of mine) that came out in 'The Historian' (151 issue of the UK historical association journal) called the 'Capturing public opinion during the Paris Commune'. It was on the polarization of the historical publications on the commune when in reality most of the people living within the commune itself were very centrist or even apathetic towards it. Yet most of the academic writings on the commune today come from a very anti-socialist or socialist point of view.
I'm not really a communist, rather an anarchist (which are similar for many aspects) must say that every communist, socialist and anarchist I've met were very critical and properly informed regarding the Commune. Even Marx himself was aware of the issues that would have eventually led the Commune to its unavoidable failure.
When it comes to the so-called "communist" countries, which butchered Marx's ideas, it's obvious they would manipulate an event in order to support their ideology.
So, to all of the misinformed revolutionaries out there, make sure to be educated, to know the facts. And if you really need proper examples of successful anarchist/communist societies, there are many (though almost all short-lived, due to the repressive response of authority: take as an example Catalonia during the Spanish Civil War, which, ironically, was also repressed by the soviet-based Intercom)
But ... There are many events that are known to nationals and historians but not others. This is true of most of modern history everywhere... There are only really a handful of key events that are known in a widespread way - typically major wars, empires and other events with an international scope.
I don't think the Paris Commune is special in that way. If anything, the French Communist Party in the 20th century is responsible for giving it a legendary status.
As for communist education.... Yes, you're right ... In European communist countries and occasionally others. But that's very much a thing of the past now, obviously. But the Soviets and their allies wrapped almost everything they did in ideological rhetoric, right? I rather doubt that the average Polish or Hungarian person these days, for example, thinks at all about it, even the elderly ones who wpuld have actually been educated in that system.
As for the remaining "communist" countries in the world ... Well, how many bear any resemblance any more to Marxist-Leninism? China? Absolutely not. North Korea? Barely. Cube? I seriously doubt there's much ideological rigidity left there at this point.
Perhaps I misunderstood the intent of your comment. Doesn't really matter.
Personally, I didn't learn about the Commune until graduate school.
@@ems4884 The point is there's a huge gap in perception, between of the commune between the communist educational system students and a non-communist one. Someone educated in the communist system would be very familiar with the commune and what happened to it, while in contrast extremely few educated in the Western educational system would know it. Since you probably have not been educated under communism, you probably have not experience such gap in perception.
Reminds me of the Contemporanean History course I took at uni that had a few classes on revolution in France. The last class was about the commune just the week prior to the fire at Notre Dame. The interesting fact was that about 30% of the class was a very intense debate over the debate about destroying the very cathedral that the clmmunards held sometime in the beginning of the commune. The next week, when we came back, everybody sits down as the professor walks in silently and exclames "look what you've done" referring to the fire.
wanting to destroy notre dame is so unhinged
Nice video! I watch other CZcamsrs that you are in projects like this together, but I must say that you make the best videos. Love from Slovakia.
I am sure there was no Slovak bias in that decision ;)
In Nizhegorodian Oblast' we have settlement named "Память Парижской Коммуны" or "Memory of Paris Commune". And no one knows, how we should name locals.
Памятники? )
Памятники? )
All of your videos really are masterpieces of research, and very clear to follow, thanks !
I would just have one recommandation, that is not even very long to edit : could you show (permanently or periodically) the date on an angle ? I don't always have the time scale of what's happening in mind, so it could be interesting just to show the month for example
As always, nice video Laser! The paris commune is truly an interesting topic!
You commented before you even watched it
@@georgejpg No i watched it, what the hell are you talking about
@@samped36 So you watched a 22 minute video in 6 minutes? Impressive
He just put it on 2.5 times the speed and went to town!
@@MLaserHistory *chuckles* whatever, i still think its a good video.
Thank you for this. This is very informative.
Underrated history channel
Very informative! Well done.
Hey I am a longtime viewer and I have to compliment you on your progression as a speaker and as an english speaker. really really high qualitiy now!
Thanks.
You have done a great job explaining this very complicated situation in history. Thank you.
One of the best videos about this subject. Congratulations 👏
I am so glad this project exists :) thank you all, historian youtubers
I do believe the Alphonse de Lamartine quote from the Revolution of 1848 is somewhat applicable to the Paris Commune. “....Citizens, for me, the red flag, I am not adopting it and I’ll tell you why I’m against (it) with all the strength of my patriotism. It’s that the tricolour has toured the world with the Republic and the Empire with your freedoms and your glory, and the red flag was that around the Champ-de-Mars, dragged into the people’s blood”
You gave my a wholy new perspective on the topic. Thank you!
Even though the Paris Commune was not itself communist, it remains a valuable case study from which genuinely communist revolutionaries could refine their ideas and analysis.
that is true
Excellent video. I have truly enjoyed it.
Very informative!
Out of curiosity, why wasn't there a mention of Patrice de Macmahon? Didn't he play a pretty important role in putting down the commune?
The video was already too long I didn't have time to mention many important people involved with the events happening around the commune.
Ok, understandable, thanks for the reply
Great video
Paris: We want a Republic, let the people be heard!
The people: We actually really want a monarchy
Paris: YOU'RE WRONG, THE PEOPLE MUST BE GUIDED
It wasn't like that.
Lol. Corrections. It's only the City folks who want tonbe heard.
@@arnowisp6244 Typical self-righteous and self-important urban dwellers
@@ryannathaniel9296 Bruh. Those same Urban dwellers wanted to continue war with Prussia. The Rural folks just wanted it to end.
This is excellent work on a complex topic that people still interpret through a purely idealistic manner. I appreciate how well researched and nuanced this video is, it dispels myths and contradicts communist propaganda on the subject that I've seen on CZcams. History can be easy to manipulate for ideological purposes, which makes good history and good historians all the more valuable
Doesn't matter if this is drowned out by the Ideologues gaining Millions of Views.
Solid 8/10 video, not enough Jarosław Dąbrowski, at least you addressed this omission at the end. :P
Seriously though, for anyone wondering, Jarosław Dąbrowski (also spelled as Jaroslav Dombrowski) was a Polish noble-born immigrant, a veteran of the anti-Russian January Uprising of 1863/4 (and previously an officer of the Russian Imperial Army), who briefly commanded the forces of the Paris commune and died fighting.
I have a quota of at least angering one Polish person per video for what ever reason :D
Also to add to that Dombrowski was thought to have abandoned the Commune by the end of the Bloody Week or even that he sold out the Commune to the Government, these where, however, all just roomers started due to the fact that many Communards where unhappy since you know they where losing and needed someone to blame.
It is said that his last words before leading the final defense at Père-Lachaise Cemetery (where he died) where, Let it be known I am not a traitor or just I am not a traitor or something like that, honestly I can't be bothered to go look up the actual quote :D
@@MLaserHistory Angering the Poles is super easy though, I anger myself all the time, for example.
According to my own extensive research (checking Wikipedia), his last words were "Do they still say I was a traitor?".
BTW did you know that Captain Nemo from the _Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Seas_ was originally supposed to also be a Polish noble veteran of the January Uprising? Verne's editor and publisher talked him out of this (because it would be offensive towards Russia or something), so Verne made him an Indian noble in the sequel. I wish that he either kept the original idea or went all the way in making his character Indian, for example giving him and his ship names from Sanskrit, instead of Latin.
SOME CLARIFICATIONS:
there were not marxists at the time, marx hd not even finished das kapital and was not so popular outside germany, most of the founsel of the comune were communards and anarchites and the name of the comune did have a socialist notion, not communist but seen as a different institution of the low classes than the normal communes otherwise the Anarchists would had not joined
marx was not really fond of the commune there's a letter critique with that name that can be read anywhere where he rejects the participation and Anarchists basis , giving him the conclusion only a strong state could be successful.
the books and diares of pierre proudhon and louise michel can give you inside on how was the life under the commune, as it os the story of the anarchit call3d revachol
socialism was very popular for the masses due to the horrible acts both of conservatives and the new republic which aren't mentioned here, it wasn't incompetence of the generals to suppress the rebellion but rather the overwhelming flow of people that guarantee their capture.
the commune ended because the counsel believed that prussia would not intervene so they focused on ending the republic and this one asked the prussians for support, that's were more socialist movement realized they care more about conserving the system than the nation so the break from political struggle (voting, legal participation) become rule for future movements.
also the letters of errico malatesta about the commune are a good read
Let's be glad this didn't lead to a revolution where some crazy guy just started chopping people's heads off.
Ahhh nahhhh that would never happen.
Charles-Henri Sanson did nothing wrong!
No problem, Lenin, Mao, and so on and so on, will make up for the lack of severed heads later on.
The communards actually burned all the guillotines in Paris
@@baa0325 Lenin wasn't the butcherer , that was trotsky and stalin's job!
Good topic and great explanation, thanks!
The Franco-Prussian War was insane honestly.
If I know anything about the modern perception of the commune, it is this: amongst anarchist circles, especially ancoms the commune's anniversary is still celebrated as an action of resistance by the proletariat. I can say personally, as an anarchist myself, I have a lot of admiration for the idea of the commune as a proletarian revolution, but I know it wasn't.
you're 20 years old with a gender studies degree.
@@redcrown5154 you're half right I'm 20 and halfway to a history degree
@@elise1409 seems to me you have far more to learn.
@@redcrown5154 ?
@@lazerizer6895 ?
Enjoyed the video.
My Grandfather had an Uncle who had been part of the Paris Commune. My Grandfather, at the time, was a young child living in New York City and only remembered his Uncle as an grumpy old man who refused to speak English. The Uncle was apparently exiled and made it to NYC because he had family already living there.
Communists understand the character of the Paris Commune quite well. Marx thought the Communards were doing things wrong, but he supported them anyway because he wasn't a dogmatist. He knew, and we know, all about Blanqui, Proudhon, Fourier, and the whole early history of what we call "utopian socialism", and we regard the incoherent, eclectic, anarchist character of the Commune as one of the main reasons it was defeated. It shows the need for a professional, unified revolutionary organization led by the most class-conscious workers.
Lenin didn't imagine that the Commune was marxist. We honor the Communards because they were the first workers to seize power. That's all.
The Taiping Rebellion is similarly upheld by Chinese marxists as a pre-scientific precursor to the modern Communist movement.
I don't disagree with anything in this video, other than the misrepresentation of Marx's views and those of the Communist movement in general.
2.10 Budapest: painting of revolutionaries, Vienna: painting of revolutionaries, Berlin: painting of revolutionaries, Prague: painting of revolutionaries, Copenhagen: Painting of soldiers returning from the "Victory" in the first Schleswig war in 1849 having nothing to do with revolution, hmm one of those have nothing to do with the 1848 revolutions, but exactly which one eludes me.
My bad wrong picture.
Tres bon, mon ami.
I really enjoyed my time with this creation, love the calmness it brings
Could you make a video in the future about the, Mexican revolution? I really struggle to understand who is who and why the fight in the late war, but I understand all of your videos, if you see this, thank you :D.
Check out the revolutions podcast series on the Mexican revolution
Really cool effect at the beginning with the red flags, that was nice
excellent work. unbiased and accurate. (tiny improvements would be apt, but hey). thanks for not taking sides
Very interesting video, on the election you mentionned Alsace also largely voted for pro continuation of the war republicans.
Excellent!
I've read the biography of Jennie Jerome, Winston Churchill's American mother. She was in Paris then and she said even the animals at the Paris Zoo were eaten.
heads up everyone. Best book is Lissagaray’s Histoire de la Commune BUT note how the style changes half way through. The best bit is his on the ground description. then all of a sudden the tone changes and it looks more like Marx's 'history' - explanation he was married to Marx's daughter and Karl edited the final version
The prussian just chillin outside of paris on the bloody Week
came back to watch this again and the arrow did point to the i icon talking about the mexican emperor maximilian the first and you know what video was up there not on the i icon the same video
If you want a song about the bloody week: Le Capitaine: "au mur" is a beautiful one, showing how most citizens were just normal people and how the government in Versailles ruthlessly executed them.
Or Tri Yann - Kerfank 1870. About soldiers from Britanny who were seen as not "real Frenchmen", basically parked in what turned to a concentration camp and didn't participate in any combat.
cringe pfp
@@redcrown5154 says mr. Lasereyes
@@Speederzzz at least i know which bathroom i belong in
@@redcrown5154 its... a twink... the flag is bi...
Try getting some braincells and try again
Parisians in 1789, 1792, 1830, 1832, 1848, 1871: King man bad.
King man has always been bad.
You should do a colab with History Matters. You both have very interesting and funny videos.
Man I thought I had ants on my iPad. Started freaking out.
This was very educational
How do you make your maps?
The archbishop of Paris was taken hostage and murdered by the Commune's forces
Thank you very much
I'm making my way through the playlist now! Viva la France! ⚜ Anyway, what if Napoleon III won the Franco-Prussian War?
Hard to say, from the start France didnt had real motivation to go on this war, its was only due to Bismarck making a Frecnh diplomat sit on a small chair, which was seen as an insult, that the war started. So having no real purpose France would have probably done nothing except ask for reparations or something. On the other hand Bismarck would have lost legitimacy and germany might not have been unified under Prussian rule before a long time. In the end, either Germany would have appeared and so practically nothing, or Germany wouldnt have appeared, which is very improbable, and then European History is changed beyond what you can predict.
The good ending.
I remembered that there were non-leftists elected in the paris commune, but they would leave as the national guard was becoming increasingly agitated and they were worried for their lives.
Maybe I'm mixing up the national government with the commune idk
No that happened with some. That's why as I stated only 60 out of 92 people showed up.
Also funny story one very famous leftist Parisian politician managed to get elected into the commune the only problem was he was in prison during the time in Brittany.
@@MLaserHistory I like that lol.
I started reading Marx' writings on the second French empire and Paris commune to learn about how people in the day saw the events a while ago and your video has energised me to get back to it. Cheers
@@jayasuryangoral-maanyan3901 another interesting fact two Marx's son in laws took part in the Commune and it's them that Marx got a lot of his information about the Commune from.
@@MLaserHistory damn so he's actually a better source than I thought! Sounds like you could do a small video on things you found out while researching this honestly.
@@jayasuryangoral-maanyan3901 Ou yeah as with almost all my videos there's like a billion other things I found out during my research that just needed to be cut because well I don't want to make a 2 hour video.
As for Marx being a good source, it depends. For example one of his son in laws actually wrote about the commune and the paper is so bad like so miss-representative of the actual events that happened that many historians don't even use it as a source. Plus both of them where very involved on the more "radical side" of the commune which was in fact the minority of the commune. This means they had a very skewed view of the events as compared to more moderate republicans involved in the commune. It's one of those can't see the forest for the trees type of situations.
So just keep in mind that Marx even though having information from inside the commune doesn't mean this information was very accurate to the actual events happening in it.
However, on the other side Marx wasn't writing history he was more revising and "perfecting" his idea of communism based off of the events that happened in the commune so from the philosophical stand point the information he got from his son in laws was actually quite helpful for him to contemplate how to better his economic theory and for that whether the information was skewed or not didn't matter as much as if he was writing a history of the commune.
Very good analysis and summary, Paris still lives in the shadow of those events, maybe!😊
If the French Army and the Thier's Government hadn't put down the rebellion of the Paris Commune wouldn't the Prussians have restarted the war and the blockade of Paris? The Prussian troops were litetary surrounding Paris and they controlled a huge part of France during all of this. If the Thier's government hadn't put down the rebellion would France have been in violation of the armistice they had sigend with Prussia?
That was the justification for Thiers' hard line.
If he couldn't demonstrate that he was in control of Paris The Germans would regard the peace treaty as breached and would refuse to leave.
It seems to be the reality of the situation, justification or not.
The Paris Commune is considered the first communist revolution in the world because it was the first revolution led by the population itself where workers obtained the means of production, Although there are arguments saying that this would be temporary, Anarchists and utopian socialists had more than 50% of the city's council seats, With approximately 1/3 of the city being collectivized among the city's workers, But despite all this, it impossible to say that the Paris Commune was a 100% communist movement, Since there were still 2/3 of the factories working normally.
The "march on Versailles" is a pretty important event to miss in a summary.
Yeah, that was a mistake on my part.
Sounds like CHAZ but on hardcore mode.
That's pretty much what a commune is
CHAZ - SJW = Paris commune
Arise, ye toilers of all nations! Be shed of misery and woe!
Nice
The Workers took the Factories and controlled them, the Political power was also by the Workers' Commune, even the "Police" (the National Guard) were controlled by the Workers. So it had Communist characteristics.
10:20 some nerve of the French to complain of Prussian smell
HI there very good video, i want to add that after the comune, a fact that the old comunist guard dosent like that much is that after the comune Marx change in a lot of his positions he became a lot more in favor for the democracy and non violent revolutions, and a lot other stuff. i want to say more than a comunist symbol is a leftist symbol, that comunists in the later years tried to take, but at its heart is symbol for the left as you said the council was made from all the spectrum of leftwing thought, there was even anarchists an ideology that hated the comunists and the comunists hated it with their guts. This is excellent summary thanks for making it.
Yeah true, I didn't really have time to go into Marx's rethinking of some of his ideas about communism due to the Commune. Or the fact that most of the information from the Commune, he got from two of his son in laws which where involved in the Commune and the fact that some historians believe they gave him inaccurate information i.e. they where part of the radicals in the Commune hence Marx was given the more radical view point of what happened. Of course this is still debated.
There's plenty more but as stated at the end I can't cover everything in even a 20 min video.
Marx didn't really come around to establishing socialism through democratic reform. More accurately to came to see Republican democracy as we know it as a necessary stepping stone. This is both part of his broader view of history marching toward a "historically inevitable" state of equilibrium where class money and state administration are obsolete, as well as his pragmatic view that it's just plain easier to build a movement when you don't have to worry about police destroying your printing press.
Back then anarchists and Marxists had a very different relationship. There were some who disliked eachother's ideas, but even then they often worked together because they held far more in common than not. But in many places it was difficult to tell who was what as anarchists were pretty much all Marxist in analysis and really only differed in means and Marxists were far more libertarian and in favor of a diversity of tactics that overlapped a lot with anarchist tactics than many would become later. It wasn't really til Leninism, and later Maoism, came to dominate so much of the Marxists milieu that an unbridgeable chasm opened up between the two camps. But back then in many places, like the US especially, it was extremely common to see anarchists in socialist/communists parties, Marxists in anarchist trade unions, and revolutionary circles that included both. I've seen quotes from anarchists who basically said they didn't feel the need to call themselves Marxists because by being an anarchist it was implied and another from a Marxist who was asked why he didn't call himself an anarchist and he replied saying basically it was redundant as he was a communist. The insistence on vanguardism and the endless petty sectarianism of Lenin is largely what strained that relationship. But even today it's fairly common to see non-Leninist Marxists and anarchist together, at least from my experience over the last couple decades running in those circles. ✌️
4:20 he said Persians
Persians parisians all the same
the list of genocidal alumni of the Sorbonne is impressive
Sooo Paris was the Portland, Oregon of the 1830's?
Paris is still leftist hell ....
@@pampalini9344 based
These (mis-)interpretations of the Paris Commune led to the fall of the International Workingmen's Association (aka The First International), because two of the main leading figures, Marx and Bakunin, greatly disagreed over what was to be learned from the Paris Commune.
Marx adopted a far more authoritarian tone than he had previously, insisting that The International must not only form Parliamentary parties (party, singular, but; multiple countries throughout the world) but that The International must be the director of these parties, so that these parties can seize control of the state and therefore the means of production.
Bakunin naturally had a more anarchist or anarcho-syndicalist. The crushing of the Paris Commune had further confirmed his fear of the power of the state.
Marx held sway over The First International and had Bakunin expelled.
Many Marxists say that Lenin deviated from Marxism, but I contend that Lenin was a true Marxist in exhibiting the same authoritarian tendencies that Marx exhibited.
I'm sorry that I cannot do this topic more justice, but it is my opinion that this great split between Marxists and Anarcho-Syndicalists (instigated primarily by the former) doomed the Socialist movement and Bakunin's prediction about Marxism leading to a tyrannical state was essentially correct.
Please don't "do this topic" as you obviously have no clue what are you talking about.
bakunin is retarded
this is a very paradoxical affair
Paris be like “yay democracy! Wait? Why is everyone voting wrong? STOP VOTING WRONG YOU BIGOTS!!!”
Kinda like America (Any point of view tbh your parties are all the same in the end except Libertrarian)
@@quartztemplar3676 libertarians are simply contrarian republicans who are total hypocrites when they fall behind big gov big spending conservatives
@@quartztemplar3676 Because the Libertarians are insane. I just want less drug regulation, please stop advocating for the age of consent to the lowered.
@@andrasfogarasi5014 Don't worry I've changed sides I'm an Anarcho communist now.
@Maiyn no joke luv
5:21
Adventures of Baron Munchausen reference
Is this Paris all the time
-A random German soldier
Ah the revolution... the national sport of France
Have you heard the BBC in our time episode about this?
It's in my bibliography :)
10:25-10:30 “fiery but mostly peaceful”
France fighting themselves no surrender
France fighting other nations....
So many political implosions within a century
France in a nutshell.
@@MLaserHistory Touché
Merci.
The more I learn of the French the more I understand the English's hatred of them. frfr
9:43 Fix the year. Should be 1830, yes?
My mom dad was Polish and French and her mom
was German from Berlin I been to Germany Austria Italy and of course Paris and I’ve been on the Eiffel Tower next I like to go to the UK and from the Asian countries I’ve been to Thailand Hong Kong next I would like to go to Japan I was supposed to go there last year but I couldn’t because of the coronavirus And I had heard the history about France I heard that the French people Used to chop off the middle finger I was that the British and it came from the thing called pluck you
To be honest, the academic left-wing ideas especially ones encouraged by Marx at that period of time were more cautious and calculated around their aim rather than ideology, this making writers like Marx rightfully recognising the Paris Commune as a symbol of that aim. Said aim was not equality of outcome but something called 'Luck-Egalitarianism' in political philosophy. Look up this theory on Google Scholar if your interested in understanding it.