Hey! I shouldn't have made the generalization nobody wants to be a victim because some people have a victim complex, ig I was more trying to articulate the idea that a lot of the time victims of abuse will go out of their way to make excuses to defend their abusers
i'm glad u made this video! i was very much anti hazbin at first as well because i thought itd be too edgy for my liking, but i read up on the angel dust SA discourse on a twitter thread and it included the entire poison mv and i looked at it and went woah, and i just had to check out the show myself. i think the interesting thing about angel wanting charlie to leave the studio in ep 4 is that angel is not necessarily scared of val (bc its something hes fairly used to), but he's scared for charlie (ties into what you said about fat nuggets making him appear more human) he has so much compassion for his friends and wants to protect them (we also see this with him running after niffty in the club when she runs in val's direction, he goes after her despite knowing val is there) (i also think this is why he has 4 arms with val but 6 arms in ep 4 and 8 when he's defending his friends, he does need to defend himself from val but he cares about protecting his friends more) i think in the poison MV the scene with the screens is him dissociating (what's happening on the screens is what's really happening, and him dancing is what's going on in his head to tune out his situation) (also the "oh"s in the chorus are him screaming out either from pain or because that's what's happening in the shoot) also; to you saying nobody wants to be a victim: i do think a lot of angel's hypersexuality/oversexualizing himself comes from him trying to take control but also him trying to gaslight himself into believing his situation is okay (i did a whole analysis on this + loser baby, i'd love to share it with you if you want!) i do have to disagree with the idea that he's being sexualized by the creators of the show; he's not a real person and therefore can't be sexualized (at least not in that way); i also think that with the storyboard artist/other artists portraying him in these ways it has less to do with sexualization and it's more exploring his character as a whole, and there's no shame in that (be it for storytelling, projecting, or otherwise) i also love that you pointed out the detail with the chain in episode 6, i totally missed that! somebody also pointed out that the love potion was likely made with val's saliva, thought that might be interesting
There's a video from a therapist up on CZcams that does her best to analyze the characters and I personally think they're pretty good. I suggest checking her out if you haven't already if that kind of stuff interests you because she touches on Angel being worried about his friend and wanting Charlie to leave for her own safety. She also points out that when he's talking to Val in that ep and when he's telling Charlie to leave his voice deepens and he sounds a lot more serious like he's dropped his facade (Iirc)
yes, i saw part of the video and it's really good, but it's a sensitive topic to me so i don't really want to watch it all the way. i recommend it as well however. thank you regardless!@@lother1111
tysm for talking abt male sa victims. there's sm ppl i still see that still think men can't even be assaulted it's nice to see somebody else talk abt it.
You're the first one I saw that mentioned Angels appearing/disappearing arms! I thought I was crazy because no one else seemed to notice. Really liked your thoughts on this!
i never noticed the tv screens in the background but that's pretty cool. Honestly hazbin hotel turned out better then i expected like i thought the writing was gonna be terrible but no it wasn't i love that show sm!!!
What a beautiful detail with Angel's arms in Loser Baby! ❤ Your analysis was really great to listen to, & its always great to see people set aside what they've heard about a piece of media to instead engage with an open mind. I can see why you would perspnally not have been a fan of Pilot Angel Dust, though for me personally it was very easy to identify "who he represented" even before looking up his background info outside the pilot. I think certain types of victims saw themselves in him immediately and it was very sad how we then had 4 years where just relating to or drawing Angel could get you attacked as a "bad victim". I love where they took his character & am so thankful for a character like him existing.
i feel very seen by angel as an SA and abuse victim. i have the same trauma responses to it and relate to him so much since the piolet. i see why ppl don't like it but i think they might just not understand it. if you don't wanna *see* it that's understandable but there still needs to be representation for ppl like angel even if some ppl don't like it cuz we exist and feel a lot better seeing a character to relate to. abt him being bad gay representation, im gay also but i never rly thought abt it but i think that'd only be the case if he were the only gay character but like half of them are. i don't rly see angel as just a character i see him as all the real people that go though what he does
I don't really like Angel bc he's so sexual but I don't really dislike him either. What I couldn't understand after watching the show was hearing people claim that it was victim-blaming because, like, did y'all even bother to watch the show?? It clearly wasn't and I don't understand how anyone could walk away with that idea unless they just expect everyone who's even been a victim ever to be this perfect little angel when that's literally not possible. There's no such thing as a perfect person or a perfect victim and to think there is is honestly pretty ignorant and does more harm than good because I'm 100% positive there are people out there who can heavily relate to Angel Dust
There are (I’m not one of them but I have friends who I see the hypers^xuality mirroring Angel’s to a T, and usually people really love to blame and shame those who respond to abuse by reacting in that particular way). There 100% are people who relate to Angel. I don’t dislike Angel, I actually think, much like Husker, that he’s got a lot of emotional intelligence, but he’s also got a lot of trauma. Remember, he was an openly gay man in the 1940s, and the son of a Mafia Don. There was nothing fun about that life before he got down there. And then Val snapped him up. People were sitting around _waiting_ to find something to rip into pieces about Hazbin. And instead of needing to know how to process literature, stories, and etc, to say “oh Hazbin was a bit (very) rushed, and would have probably benefited instead of speedrunning season one to lay out season 2 and be given 12 episodes and some more time in the oven to bake a bit more and edit in things and etc” they just decided that because after the Hatedom ran many artist for the show into hiding that they could keep harassing anyone who remotely was left. Which was so bad for Poison and Angel and just… it was not good. Sure, I don’t like what came out of that, and seriously question why Viv chose that, but… I also know writers within the _fandom_ (don’t know anyone in the crew) and… Hazbin attracts a really odd crowd. Those of us who have followed Hazbin, and thus Viv for the last five years are… a bit weird. Just hang out in the _very weird_ Radio Demon/Alastor tags on AO3 and… I’m actually weirdly looking forward to there being a deliberate red herring (I hope) that makes all of us Alastor fans look like we’re _completely cooked and are as mad as a box of frogs_ because we only get part of the story behind Alastor’s behaviors and his reason why he did what he did. Mostly because I’d love to have a character that is like that, who gets painted as horrifically evil and makes everyone side eye the people who have liked him, and then it turns out that we didn’t know the whole story, no one did. And the reframe is basically a morality lesson of “Do. Not. Judge people by the fictional characters they like.” And honestly, if Viv doesn’t, by the time I finish my own novel, I _will_ because someone needs to. I haven’t understood the people who also accuse Viv of being horrifically homophobic and just making up stuff she literally never said, and then trying to say she’s not really bi. It’s… all so dumb and stupid. And I respect Viv for any amount of ground she stands against the hate trains.
@@dexxedfrog9902 woooow. I sadly, absolutely believe that. That… just… wow. They had to have willfully decided what they did. You can’t apply a little logical thought to anything and not see how Loser Baby is _clearly_ not blaming Angel (or Husker for that matter!) for what he went through. My god.
I cannot wrap my head around how people think that Loser Baby is victim blaming. The ignorance is through the roof. Like, even if we ignore the show itself, lets look at this from a production standpoint. How can they genuinely believe that the writers sat in a room and someone said "Hey guys lets make a song about victim-blaming!" and everyone agreed? No one would ever have those intentions. I swear they have negative media literacy.
okay few things, probably have whatever your recording on a stable area. the constant camera shaking can make some viewers feel sick. however I am happy to see the content portion of your video isn't really lacking :D keep up the good work!!
Hey! I shouldn't have made the generalization nobody wants to be a victim because some people have a victim complex, ig I was more trying to articulate the idea that a lot of the time victims of abuse will go out of their way to make excuses to defend their abusers
If you watch the seen in the dressing room you notice that there are cameras everywhere. He has no privacy 😢
i'm glad u made this video! i was very much anti hazbin at first as well because i thought itd be too edgy for my liking, but i read up on the angel dust SA discourse on a twitter thread and it included the entire poison mv and i looked at it and went woah, and i just had to check out the show myself.
i think the interesting thing about angel wanting charlie to leave the studio in ep 4 is that angel is not necessarily scared of val (bc its something hes fairly used to), but he's scared for charlie (ties into what you said about fat nuggets making him appear more human) he has so much compassion for his friends and wants to protect them (we also see this with him running after niffty in the club when she runs in val's direction, he goes after her despite knowing val is there) (i also think this is why he has 4 arms with val but 6 arms in ep 4 and 8 when he's defending his friends, he does need to defend himself from val but he cares about protecting his friends more)
i think in the poison MV the scene with the screens is him dissociating (what's happening on the screens is what's really happening, and him dancing is what's going on in his head to tune out his situation) (also the "oh"s in the chorus are him screaming out either from pain or because that's what's happening in the shoot)
also; to you saying nobody wants to be a victim: i do think a lot of angel's hypersexuality/oversexualizing himself comes from him trying to take control but also him trying to gaslight himself into believing his situation is okay (i did a whole analysis on this + loser baby, i'd love to share it with you if you want!)
i do have to disagree with the idea that he's being sexualized by the creators of the show; he's not a real person and therefore can't be sexualized (at least not in that way); i also think that with the storyboard artist/other artists portraying him in these ways it has less to do with sexualization and it's more exploring his character as a whole, and there's no shame in that (be it for storytelling, projecting, or otherwise)
i also love that you pointed out the detail with the chain in episode 6, i totally missed that!
somebody also pointed out that the love potion was likely made with val's saliva, thought that might be interesting
There's a video from a therapist up on CZcams that does her best to analyze the characters and I personally think they're pretty good. I suggest checking her out if you haven't already if that kind of stuff interests you because she touches on Angel being worried about his friend and wanting Charlie to leave for her own safety. She also points out that when he's talking to Val in that ep and when he's telling Charlie to leave his voice deepens and he sounds a lot more serious like he's dropped his facade (Iirc)
yes, i saw part of the video and it's really good, but it's a sensitive topic to me so i don't really want to watch it all the way. i recommend it as well however. thank you regardless!@@lother1111
tysm for talking abt male sa victims. there's sm ppl i still see that still think men can't even be assaulted it's nice to see somebody else talk abt it.
You're the first one I saw that mentioned Angels appearing/disappearing arms! I thought I was crazy because no one else seemed to notice. Really liked your thoughts on this!
i never noticed the tv screens in the background but that's pretty cool. Honestly hazbin hotel turned out better then i expected like i thought the writing was gonna be terrible but no it wasn't i love that show sm!!!
yooo i didn't even think about the arms correlating to how safe angel dust feels. love ur analysis!
What a beautiful detail with Angel's arms in Loser Baby! ❤
Your analysis was really great to listen to, & its always great to see people set aside what they've heard about a piece of media to instead engage with an open mind.
I can see why you would perspnally not have been a fan of Pilot Angel Dust, though for me personally it was very easy to identify "who he represented" even before looking up his background info outside the pilot. I think certain types of victims saw themselves in him immediately and it was very sad how we then had 4 years where just relating to or drawing Angel could get you attacked as a "bad victim". I love where they took his character & am so thankful for a character like him existing.
i feel very seen by angel as an SA and abuse victim. i have the same trauma responses to it and relate to him so much since the piolet. i see why ppl don't like it but i think they might just not understand it. if you don't wanna *see* it that's understandable but there still needs to be representation for ppl like angel even if some ppl don't like it cuz we exist and feel a lot better seeing a character to relate to.
abt him being bad gay representation, im gay also but i never rly thought abt it but i think that'd only be the case if he were the only gay character but like half of them are.
i don't rly see angel as just a character i see him as all the real people that go though what he does
I don't really like Angel bc he's so sexual but I don't really dislike him either. What I couldn't understand after watching the show was hearing people claim that it was victim-blaming because, like, did y'all even bother to watch the show?? It clearly wasn't and I don't understand how anyone could walk away with that idea unless they just expect everyone who's even been a victim ever to be this perfect little angel when that's literally not possible. There's no such thing as a perfect person or a perfect victim and to think there is is honestly pretty ignorant and does more harm than good because I'm 100% positive there are people out there who can heavily relate to Angel Dust
There are (I’m not one of them but I have friends who I see the hypers^xuality mirroring Angel’s to a T, and usually people really love to blame and shame those who respond to abuse by reacting in that particular way). There 100% are people who relate to Angel.
I don’t dislike Angel, I actually think, much like Husker, that he’s got a lot of emotional intelligence, but he’s also got a lot of trauma. Remember, he was an openly gay man in the 1940s, and the son of a Mafia Don. There was nothing fun about that life before he got down there. And then Val snapped him up.
People were sitting around _waiting_ to find something to rip into pieces about Hazbin. And instead of needing to know how to process literature, stories, and etc, to say “oh Hazbin was a bit (very) rushed, and would have probably benefited instead of speedrunning season one to lay out season 2 and be given 12 episodes and some more time in the oven to bake a bit more and edit in things and etc” they just decided that because after the Hatedom ran many artist for the show into hiding that they could keep harassing anyone who remotely was left. Which was so bad for Poison and Angel and just… it was not good. Sure, I don’t like what came out of that, and seriously question why Viv chose that, but… I also know writers within the _fandom_ (don’t know anyone in the crew) and… Hazbin attracts a really odd crowd. Those of us who have followed Hazbin, and thus Viv for the last five years are… a bit weird. Just hang out in the _very weird_ Radio Demon/Alastor tags on AO3 and… I’m actually weirdly looking forward to there being a deliberate red herring (I hope) that makes all of us Alastor fans look like we’re _completely cooked and are as mad as a box of frogs_ because we only get part of the story behind Alastor’s behaviors and his reason why he did what he did. Mostly because I’d love to have a character that is like that, who gets painted as horrifically evil and makes everyone side eye the people who have liked him, and then it turns out that we didn’t know the whole story, no one did. And the reframe is basically a morality lesson of “Do. Not. Judge people by the fictional characters they like.” And honestly, if Viv doesn’t, by the time I finish my own novel, I _will_ because someone needs to.
I haven’t understood the people who also accuse Viv of being horrifically homophobic and just making up stuff she literally never said, and then trying to say she’s not really bi. It’s… all so dumb and stupid. And I respect Viv for any amount of ground she stands against the hate trains.
i saw ppl say it was husk victim blaming him in loser baby lol they rlyyy missed the point of that song
@@dexxedfrog9902 woooow. I sadly, absolutely believe that. That… just… wow. They had to have willfully decided what they did. You can’t apply a little logical thought to anything and not see how Loser Baby is _clearly_ not blaming Angel (or Husker for that matter!) for what he went through. My god.
I cannot wrap my head around how people think that Loser Baby is victim blaming. The ignorance is through the roof. Like, even if we ignore the show itself, lets look at this from a production standpoint. How can they genuinely believe that the writers sat in a room and someone said "Hey guys lets make a song about victim-blaming!" and everyone agreed? No one would ever have those intentions. I swear they have negative media literacy.
i love the cat sm 😂
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okay few things, probably have whatever your recording on a stable area. the constant camera shaking can make some viewers feel sick. however I am happy to see the content portion of your video isn't really lacking :D keep up the good work!!