Explaining Laser Weapons in Space Combat
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- čas přidán 9. 11. 2022
- Spacedock delves into the sciencey details of laser weaponry in science fiction space combat.
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Huh huh, wasn't expecting the mini Mustard video in the middle.
Why don't you mention the issue of inertia in any of these weapon videos? Space may not be a "perfect" void, but it's near as you can get. The range of a missile on earth would be dramatically increased in space and, my understanding, would be theoretically infinite or nigh unto. After all, if nothing is in the path of your projectile, it has no reason to slow down or stop.
Am I airing a number of misconceptions here? I thought one of the major problems with lasers has been their short range per energy expended as compared to missiles, which might not be as dramatic in space, but still a factor one would assume.
The lasers weapons that are currently being tested are fiber optic lasers which have much higher energy efficiency than what you described in the video.
Yes and that is just modern day technology imagine space warfare in the far future.
The expanse got it wrong. It didn't have lasers because it just didn't want to. Not because it is not a viable weapon . Seriously if people like you keep thinking the expanse is gospel you will just lose credibility. There is a point where you just say no this is wrong. The expanse is wrong. Nothing with a or b but the expanse and those defending it
Wow, never thought I would see our game NEBULOUS: Fleet Command in a Spacedock video, what a cool feeling. The clip you showed is actually of our anti-ship particle beams, but we do use traditional lasers for anti-missile point defense. Thanks for including us!
Your game looks fantastic! I'm also a unity dev working on a space battle game, similar to yours, but 2D, and not so realistic xD. I find this channel a very good source for designing and coming with new ideas. Your game will be an inspiration for mine!
I bought your game recently and couldn't believe I hadn't heard of it before! One of the best space combat games I've ever played, (specifically love the ability to design ships for whatever role I want. Finally can use EW and AWACS in space lol) you guys deserve so much more recognition than you get right now!
It's fucking awesome, that's why.
Just added to my wishlist; I've never found a game that quite scratches the Homeworld 2 itch. Look forward to giving it a go!
The Earthforce ship in the Thumbnail is also firing a Particle canon too.
In Nebulous:Fleet Command (one of the footage sources of the vid), in-game descriptions place emphasis on that the big, anti-ship things aren't lasers, they're beam weapons that siphon off material from ship's reactor cores. They emit a very fast plasma beam that ablates material. In-Game, they're the shortest range, highest engergy intensity and deadliest weapons, shewing through most ships in literal seconds but needing dedicated strategies and ship builds to work.
Is that the game at 4:50?
@@chemputer yes that's the one.
Still, they showcase the Aroura laser point defense system in action, a very practical game example of laser anti air defense.
@@morrischen5777 And of course, our first real-world military application of lasers as well - anti-missile defense systems.
Glad to see Children of a Dead Earth getting even a short bit of exposure on this channel.
For sure. It's the de-facto realistic space combat setting. I would say you can't have a discussion of realistic space weapons without it.
@@nitehawk86 Sadly it isn't just flawed - its flaws have made people assume the wrong things.
@@HuxleysShaggyDog I'm curious to what you mean?
@@adamanthony3585 I was enjoying most of the missions until the retake ceres one, which I couldn't beat. I don't play allot of strategy games. Most annoying part is you have to beat that mission to unlock ship creation, which I've heard is the best part of the game. I wouldn't know.
@@scoreboredgaming read the guides (from the help button on the main screen), they provide some really important info...
... and one of them has a button to unlock ship/module creation w/o the campaign!
Even the one used in the Expanse wasn't a weapon. It was a comm system that they ramped up to eleven in order to get through the barrier and it nearly burnt out.
This is a common trope in sci-fi. There's one Niven story where aliens attack an "unarmed" human ship only to discover the otherwise peaceful (at that time) humans mount overpowered communications lasers on their ships for a reason. The second thing the aliens learned from humans was "a fusion drive is also a weapon".
@@mckorr2116 we just want to talk to people really, really far away!
@@joshuacheung6518 That was actually the reason, iirc. Turns out, if you want to use lasers for communication over light year distances, said lasers need a lot of juice.
Similar deal with their hand-held totally not laser pistols. They are actually signaling lasers meant to reach from ground into orbit, and their manuals explicitely state to make sure that there is nothing flammable between you and the satelite you are trying to paint. And of course, at this wattage, anything is flammable...
Who ever can aim a handheld device on something in the orbit could also just use a laserpointer to instantly blind an enemy 2 timezones away 😅
As far as heat is concerned, I once read lasers described as furnaces which happen to produce coherent light as a byproduct. The exact quote is on Atomic Rockets.
My furnace runs games as a byproduct, much better.
And yet they are useless as weapons even now.
The development of another technology in 2018 that wasn’t expected to be developed until decades from now, arrived unexpectedly, and suddenly the billions we (and others) had spent on High-Energy Laser Weapons suddenly became a sunk-loss.
That development is also making spacecraft lighter, and able to devote far less mass to re-entry shielding than previously, allowing more “other stuff” to be carried.
But the real killer is something that is now still in the labs: Hyper-reflective/refractive Metamaterials.
Their Refractive/Reflective Properties do not arise from traditional optics, or highly polished surfaces, but from the arrangement of the Molecules that compose them.
Thus things like scratches, dirt, etc. don’t effect those properties, which are indices of Reflection/Refraction near ∞.
The newer Ultra-Black Pigments are made using the same sort of technology, but rather than, like the Hyper-reflective/refractive Metamaterials that have an arrangement of Atoms/Molecules that prevent the light from contacting the material (and thus “Bending” it someplace else), the Ultra-Black Pigments have an arrangement of Molecules/Atoms that absorbs everything thrown at it (There are some very profound applications for that if they could be combined with Superconductors to producing power on an enormous scale from a very small amount of light in any wavelength). Some of these are currently being used in new Solar Power Applications, high-powered Optics and Telescopes to eliminate Light-Pollution, and so on.
But the limit of Refraction/Reflection → ∞ on these means that we couldn’t build any kind of laser that was short of consuming the entire power output of a star to leave enough residual photons un-reflected/un-refracted to transmit their energy (heat) to the material to overcome it.
There is a LOT of resistance to accepting this (much like Drake’s Hammer’s Slammers creates resistance to the impossibility of Tanks being Hovercraft - I got to meet the leader of the US Army Team who evaluated the PACV, and then helped develop the LCAC. He summed up the stupidity of making a “Tank” out of a Hovercraft as “WHY would you want to make a tank out of an Air-Hockey Puck that crashed every time it fired its weapon, or got hit by one? Never mind that they are not nearly as fast or “All Terrain” as they have been made-out to be.”) given the prevalence of Lasers in Science Fiction dating back to their invention in the 1950s. And the ubiquitous “Ray-Gun” of Science-Fiction causes a false association between Laser Weapons and High-Energy Particle Weapons, which are at least throwing Mass at an object, even if not a significant amount (This was another area a Physics Professor I know at UCLA has a bone-to-pick with, as he points-out that the purpose of a Particle Weapon would be more to create secondary effects for other weapons to exploit. Or to kill the biological component of a Target without harming the physical structure of it).
Lasers turn-out to have an incredibly narrow window of utility as “Weapons,” and even narrower if the civilization developing them has an active Space Program (Heat Shields for Spacecraft are basically armor for protection from Laser Weapons). And here on Earth, that window slammed shut in 2018 when the Scalable Manufacture of Hardened Aerogels became a reality.
While the USA’s laser (and England’s, France’s, Germany’s, Russia’s, China’s, etc.) still remain viable for use against insurgents, terrorists, pirates, and so on… The major Countries and Nations with the wealth to do so can easily add the thin film of Hardened Aerogel required to make a Laser a poor weapon to use against such targets.
They have been very quiet about the whole thing, given the poor PR surrounding it.
@@MatthewBaileyBeAfraid to be fair a lot of the use cases for laser weapons today are as a countermeasure to drones or cheap swarming units that cannot effectively or efficiently be engaged by kinetic defence systems. We've seen in Ukraine how effective things like loitering munitions can be; using AFVs with laser weapons to defend groups of tanks from such threats is potentially a worthwhile investment.
@@MatthewBaileyBeAfraidthey certainly arent useless but can be damaged easily, but they could melt drones quite fast but are neutralized by mildly bad weather if we can make drones with the ability to track and cook other drones from above it would be awesome but im merely a youtube commenter
Matthew is talking alot of nonsense I don't think he understands the reality of laser weapons .
"A tiny bit horribly toxic" is one of those golden deadpan joke moments I love.
Laser weapons are the primary space combat weapon in the Kris Longknife book series. Earlier in the series most warships use a layer of ice as ablative armor against laser attacks. Ships engage while rotating at 10-20 RPM to prevent burn-through down to the hull, causing most hits to carve long spirals into the ice instead of substantial damage. There are even some instances of ships intentionally melting their own ice armor as emergency cooling to give their lasers a higher rate of fire.
Yo, haven't heard someone mention the Kris Longknife series in forever. I stopped reading in the later books once everything got super nanotechy, but still a good read.
I know this was like forever ago. But I just saw your comment here. I was amazed and also a bit envious that Mike Shepard came up with such a simple yet ingenious protective measure.
When energy weapons you use and sensors that can detect their use work on same velocities, it creates an interesting "dark forest" scenarios for every encounter.
Shoot and scoot!
if you have light speed based weapons and detection. The active detection is only half light speed. ( Sending and Resiving back ) Passiv Sensors would work on light speed but are also affected by Physics and could be pixeld. For example best possible focus you could get on moon would be ~5m per Pixel. Better is not possible.
"Better is not possible."
Not yet anyway. Never say never with science. Even with what we think is currently impossible.
However, I sometimes think this input delay is over-looked in the debate about long range combat. You gotta see your target well enough to hit it. Range + ECM could mean you gotta get a lot closer to get a good hit ratio.
@@forestwells5820 Especially if LIDAR is removed the the equation. It is the primary targeting system for, well pretty much everything. But, coatings (icr atm what they are called) are being developed that can reflect/scatter 99.9% of light hitting them. This would render any LIDAR unable to detect whatever has been coated with these materials (and drastically reduce the effectiveness of any LAZER weapons used against it as well) thus likely forcing a return to much less accurate (and more easily foiled) RADAR for targeting. And with them being both highly durable (they work on the nanoscopic level so scratches will not effect them) and easily applied to anything that can be painted, and suddenly combat ranges drop immensely (and overall accuracy). Thus making LAZERs much less viable in combat.
@@forestwells5820 Normally I would agree, but if they don´t find a trick to go around the problem, it´s like the speed of light. A law of Physics. ALL EM behave that way.
I'd be very interested to see a Spacedock episode on the Starship Operators anime. It's a show with a much more "hard sci-fi" look at space combat than a lot of other shows.
Most of it is very well put together and pity you need to be a semi-archeological speluncar to know about the series.
Came here to say this anime too, 100% watch this show, would love to hear your analysis of this fantastic show
Is it on Netflix or another streaming platform? I want to check it out now.
I love that show. I've never liked the idea of Mecha in space combat (IMO A more conventional starfighter fitted with a Mecha's power systems, defenses, and weapons would be cheaper and easier to maintain while being just as effective in most space battles) so the anime I know of with lots of space combat and no mecha, or at least none fighting in space are among my favorites. Fortunately I got the DVDs when they were new.
Awesome ships. Weak plot and characters tho.
Space engineers! Less gooo
Absolutely love the inclusion of Space Engineers clips. Fantastic game for scratching your creative star ship itch and then blowing up the result. Praise Lord Klang!
The never ending cycle of locating wrecks, finding uranium ore for power and ice for the engines is my go-to entertainment, until the game starts chugging because the ship has become so big haha.
My only gripe is that after spending all that time building a crazy huge warship I don't ever want to take it into battle because that'll mean spending the next two hours finding all the damage and repairing it.
@@kevingriffith6011 it would be easier if there were a way to display ship diagnostics onto a screen. But also the armor needs a rework. If you've seen modern ships take gatling gun fire , you'll know what I mean
@@kalyambamhango4548 I wouldn't mind seeing a service provided by the spaceports where they auto-weld any projected blueprints in an area around the station, charging you credits based on the materials spent. It'd give the game a reason to have the in-game economy outside of specific challenge runs, and it's a huge time saver if you play survival... just project the fully welded ship on top of itself and the station will do all the repairs for you.
@@kevingriffith6011 how about you assign your ship to a blueprint. Then the station makes your ship match that blueprint and you pay for the resources to do so. That way they don't just repair stuff, but also replace anything that was fully destroyed as well
I love seeing Legend of the Galactic Heroes getting more coverage, its such a fantastic sci fi show with a great setting, great characters, and a very well written plot. I mean hell, both sides of the war actually have competent leaders, which means more often than not, battles are very close affairs with both sides conducting well thought out strategies in order to gain just the tiniest advantage and turn the battle.
A little slow in the pacing but a must see and so underated.
I am just really glad that there is a proper sci-fi channel that actually give Eastern properties a chance and doesn't just dismiss them just cause they are animated.
i want to watch the original but they never DUB it.
@@phalanx3803 just watch it with subtitles, it is 100% worth it
@@battleoid2411 if I wanted to read would go buy the novel.
i really like what Timothy Zahn did with the Chiss “Spectrum Laser” weaponry in the *Thrawn: Ascendancy* trilogy. He understood how the main benefit of the weapons were heat exchange, and one thing that the Chiss would do would be to launch “Breacher” missiles at a target, loaded with strong acid that would have an effect of darkening and pitting the armour of an enemy warship so that the Lasers would be more readily absorbed by the target. elsewise, the Chiss would adjust the frequency of their lasers so that they would be better absorbed by the target depending.
really more felt like a more thought out take on Star Wars weapons than seen elsewhere
Interesting but if they can hit it with paint capsules why not just hurl capsules of murder drone to dig in there ship compartments/crew then hijack the corpse-ship and attack there soon to be corpse-ship bretheren?
@@heraadrian7764 Why launch a 50k drone or warhead when you can use a 2k variant and use free energy?
Check out the citadel series by John Ringo, he goes to the next level with laser weapons and laser defence systems.
@@heraadrian7764 Acid continues after the missile is destroyed. Murder Drones wont.
And then the second question of cost... as Deridus pointed out. A bunch of independent drones are expensive, while a bunch of acid isn't.
Also, I think you overestimate the power of murder drones.
@@Deridus Because those 50k drones will get you a multi-billion doubloons ship to use how your lordly ass will desire. Imagine the screamers(nice movie) drones moving thru the vents or shitpipes/bulkheads or walls killing every SOB and direct hack the ship mainframe/antenna and giving you the ship to clean a bit much but ready to sell the tincan to the next food...I mean client.
Love seeing Legend of the Galactic Heroes being shown off. The show needs more love and the books are great.
Ahh, can't believe two of my favourite space combat games, Nebulous and COADE, got featured at once in a Spacedock episode.
Today is a good day.
Have you looked at Terra Invicta yet?
@@polygondwanaland8390 Very Atomic Rockets feel!
Know any games like Children of a Dead Earth?
This is why I love the weapons systems in the Honorverse. Guided missiles for long range combat (although they're actually bomb-pumped lasers with a 'rocket' on the back), and laser weapons for short range combat. There's no place for kinetic weapons because they're simply too slow for any practical use beyond planetary bombardment. And when the laser weapons fire, they hit before people realise they've been shot at. A lot of the combat strategy in the books are about opposing fleets trying to stay out of each others' energy weapon ranges unless they're enjoying an overwhelming supremacy in numbers because being in range basically means you can't dodge or defend against the energy weapons; you just have to tank it.
Light lag and diffraction apparently don't exist in the honorverse?
@@DarthBiomech they do. That's why they're short range weapons. The ranges and speeds at which ships engage each other means that energy weapons aren't practical unless they're right in each other's faces.
@@DarthBiomech Honorverse ships use gamma-ray and x-ray lasers with big optical apertures so difraction is not a problem at the ranges they fight.
The formula to know the spot size of a difraction-limited laser at a given range is:
1.22 * wavelenght in meters * range to the target in meters / diameter of the aperture in meters
Honorverse ships typically fight at ranges of 500,000 to 1,000,000 kilometers. So for example if they carry laser weapons with 1 meter apertures and use a wavelenght of 10 picometers that means those weapons can concentrate their energy in a spot size of 6.1 to 12.2 milimiters, so difraction should be not a problem at all.
And at this distance light lag isnt much of a problem either as lasers travel at 299,792.5 km/s meaning the enemy will only have 1.668 to 3.336 seconds to move out of the way (and lasers are invisible in space and the ships can attack using multiple weapons simultaneously but aimed at different points in space) so they will be not easy to dodge.
And as AngryDuck! said lasers were prefered as close range weapons anyway. For long ranges they mostly used relativistic missiles with energy shields carring nuclear-pumped warheads.
@@1supertortuga Double those numbers, since what you _see_ is where the ship actually _were_ those 1.6 to 3.3 seconds ago. I don't know how maneuverable the targets are in honorverse, but 3 to 6.5 seconds of lag migh seriously throw off your aim (If a ship is accelerating at 1G and is 27 meters wide, 1.6 seconds is enough for it to shift away for your shot to miss or just barely graze it), and it gets worse with larger distances.
@@DarthBiomech they do have FTL sensor (and later comm) tech in the form of weird gravitic fuckery
Can we get some breakdowns for the war vessels of in Legend of the Galactic Heroes series? Love that series and happy to see them used as examples here
Seconded.
Thirded?
Forthed (not sure that's actually a word but I'm going with it).
Brünhild and Perceval are in my opinion the most beautiful and elegant ships ever designed.
Toast, Prosit!!!
Nice legend of the Galactic Heroes opening
Extra nice because I happen to be rewatching lately.
Love that you used the Omega class destroyer for the thumbnail. One of my favourite starships.
I laughed at that one myself, it's armed with X-ray PARTICLE Lasers lol. So not real lasers at all, the same with most Star Wars ships, no real lasers there either.
Yeah while I love the inclusion of Babylon 5 into this video, the Minbari don't operate lasers. Their weapons are "neutron beams" which I have seen described as high intensity particle beams.
The lasers seen in B5 used by Earth, the Narn and the Centauri are a hybrid tech that uses multiple EM spectrum lasers combined with a particle beam. This tech is used for the exact same reason this video says: it is more effective against all types of targets.
Earth did use "true" lasers in the past, but that tech ended with first contact with the Centauri
I'd love to see you make a video like this explaining ship boarding operations in space, the different methods of them and how effective/practical they'd realistically be.
I personally wouldn't use them unless you have some kind of teleporter, but then again, why would you teleport marines instead of a Tsar bomb?
@@rommdan2716 That makes perfect sense if your intent is to simply destroy the ship. But what if you want to capture the ship intact for your own use or extract some kind of intel, technology, or high value prisoner/hostage from it?
@@armedmage True true, but again I don't see boarding actions occurring without a teleporter.
That's interesting
I'd say every sort of realistic space boarding without teleportation requires disabling the vessel first and probably stabilizing its rotation.
Great explanation of Lasers. Exactly like the post I did some time ago. Nailed it.
Also, i like the "Smoke Screen" Effect like it was used in Gundam. But not Gas, small foil and metal would do the trick for a short time.
Then depending on the Universe you can use it for maneuvering or dogging behind it and make the space fight more tactical.
Also you forgott the Option to Use a Laser to "Cook" an enemy Ship. The beam does not need to be focused. My Physic Prof told me Laser do heat transfer 2 to 1. So if you could cool two times more than your opponent. You can cook him in his tin can.
There is also the Gundam 00 method of filling a region with so many particles that the power of energy weapons is greatly reduced.
@@TankHunter678 That is the Gundam 00 Version GN Particles. But in Older stuff it was just dumpels
1:51 very glad to see L5resident(who made the ship model) and Theo Bouvier(who did the wonderful animation work) get some love! They have done some of the best space combat work ive ever seen
Definitely! Their designs have to be the most realistic and feasible in the near future space warships I've seen.
One interesting take on tracking lasers from one of my fav writers is tracking them based on collisions with the particles that are out in the vacuum since space isn't 100% empty. Still doesn't let you see one that's coming for you but you are able to see the near misses. That series in general does a pretty decent job of portraying lasers in a realistic way.
Just look at It... Brünhild and Perceval are in my opinion the most beautiful and elegant ships ever designed.
And both uses reflective armor.
Absolutely love the Legend of the Galactic Heroes OVA footage and would love if you folks went more in depth on that universe.
god damn i need more lore on those ships! in the new one the engines alone have bean driving me nuts the GE ships have visible reverse engines the FPA ships dont have any visible reverse engines but still can go backwards? then there are those red engine looking things facing in weird directions the seam to work both for Amto flight and for FTL? and there FTL has me confused some times they use it then sometimes the spend vast amounts of time traveling in real space then when they need to retreat why not FTL out?
I see Babylon 5 Omega-Class Destroyer on thumbnail, instant like!
I came looking . I found ! Babylon 5.
Children of a Dead Earth is fantastic (a screen is seen at 1:30) and I recommend to anybody interested in realistic space combat. It was built from the ground up as a physics simulator, and all of the technology has already been demonstrated in real life. Wish there were more like it
A common anti-laser defence in sci-fi media is also reflective dust, usually clouds of like smoke. Laser beams hit the reflective dust and is dispersed/scattered into a harmless area or maybe has it's wavelength scattered into less dangerous bands.
Smoke would help to make targeting harder/slower - But dispersing or opticaly deflecting lasers doesnt seem to work since even the .% that get absorbet are enough to vaporise dust or reflective surfaces. Recendly watched a tech channel firing a strong laser at different mirrors and was very suprised that it pretty much doesnt grant any protection at all 😅
I have to say that this is one of my favorite series on CZcams. When you cover particle beams, I hope you touch on the laser-focused variety. Or perhaps don't, because I'm trying to write a book that uses them.
Edit: spelling
One of the things that U.S Navy learned from actual lasers, namely the ODIN laser on Burke classes and LWSD on USS Portland, is that since laser required some precise aiming mechanism, you essentially designed a long range electro-optic precision tracking/targeting device.
Which is a surprisingly good substitute for radar since that is passive tracking from target EM emissions, while radar is active tracking by detect the reflecting radar waves. This way a warship could track the precise location of its target, without giving away its own location or even present.
One of the benefits of pulse lasers over continuous beam is that the plasma cloud released by explosive vaporization absorbs some of the laser energy, robbing it of it's efficiency as a weapon. Pulse lasers can strobe in such a way to let the plasma dissipate before pulsing again, making sure more energy makes it to the target and isn't wasted in the fireball.
If it was up to me, I would use laser weapons as a point defence measure against missiles or small craft like fighters (if the setting has fighters) that way nukes, missiles, and auto cannons can be a bit more specialized against larger ships or orbital bombardment.
If the tech is small enough, I could see lasers placed on points of a fighter to take on tracking missiles. Even if they don’t outright explode you could damage the tracking system or it’s engine
So, something like the Mass Effect GARDIAN system?
Kinda like Mass Effect, their PD systems are arrays of lasers, while ship-to-ship weapons are kinetic railguns and torpedoes.
My setting has lasers as PDS system, due to particle beams working better as a ranged weapon.
Star Wars makes vast use of lasers as point Defense, although those are a type of laser on it's own
Taking the opportunity to be "that guy": the ships in Legend of the Galactic Heroes use neutron beams against ships and electron beams for anti-missile/fighter defense.
There's a bit of a mix, at the start of the Alliance-Imperial War, both sides used a mix of particle railguns and newly designed neutron beam cannons to shoot at each other. As time went on the Empire with it's industrial and technological superiority was able to outfit pretty much the entire fleet with the Neutron beam cannons whilst the Alliance used some neutron beam cannons on their largest ships and particle railguns for everything else.
An example of a Laser Weapon Web in anime: GENESIS from Gundam SEED. Heck, it was even originally a laser propulsion system for faster travel between Earth to Mars.
Or the Solar System in OG Gundam, in which an O’Neill cylinder colony kilometers across is retrofitted into a laser weapon.
My favorite channel of space nerds!
Love the Legends of the Galactic Heroes at the start! The best sci fi show of all time
Interesting to see that Battletech has quite a realistic use of lasers as weapons
"photon copy-paste" is a brilliantly simple way to explain Lasers! I'm also bothered by the constant lack of radiators in sci-fi spacecraft...it's like showing airplanes without putting wings on them. Great video on the topic!
Starting with clips from OG Legend of Galactic Heroes immediately is a good start to this topic.
OMG! Space Engineers, Children of a Dead Earth, AND Nebulous Fleet Command! All my favorite games! 😁
I'm surprised you did not bring up ablative armor schemes. If you cover your ship in a ton of say graphite or even better a proper thermal shield you will be able to tank many laser hits by ablating away small parts of your armor. May not be applicable at the Petawatt scale but anything less and it is possible
I wouldn't expect a laser connected to a fusion reactor to have a scale lower than petawatts.
@@rommdan2716 That's a BIG fusion reactor. Most reactor designs that have a snowball's chance in hell of being cooled on a spacecraft are less than 20TW. Its totally possible depending on the setting but that's still a damn big laser.
@@LordOceanus "Snowball's chance in hell." Never heard that one before.
@@ziggythomas1123 Not the most common idiom but reasonably well known in the states
@@LordOceanus In the case of Lasers, go big or go home
Idea for overcoming angled armor - nesting lense. Primary lense is larger in diameter than the secondary. Primary beam pre heats your target material and the beam bends to whatever angle said material is at. The secondary lense is where the damage happens - similar in frequency to the primary beam it won't bend or distort as much. With target material pre heated the punch is far greater and will cut through faster. It will be a larger system and require more cooling and energy but to say "angled armor! Aren't you cute!" As you carve your target up like a thanksgiving turkey.
Waste heat can be an issue if your using straight heat sinks or radiators. Pump something like a molten salt or low melting point metal like bismuth through your heat sinks or radiators and you can then recycle that heat into capacitors or battery system for a quick recharge.
If you really want some fun- constant beam lasers. Lasts as long as your cooling system can handle the heat and reactors can put out power. Instead of short burst or a couple of seconds flash, it's constantly melting and cutting through armor. Think Spartan laser from halo 3 or for us battle tech people MechWarrior 3 pirate's moon expansion - a few seconds of directed laser power on a location.
One of my favorite laser weapons are the bomb-pumped laser warheads from the Honor Harrington series. In concept, a nuclear warhead powering a series of x-ray lasers for a millisecond as the bomb goes of. Pnviously more effective the closer they are, but at long range even one or two beams could do massive damage.
Dont know the series but shockingly enough that was a real US concept somewhere during the cold war 😅
I'd be really interested in seeing you guys cover Lancer battlegroup, the combat is really interesting
I recently encountered a mention of using plasma as the optical elements in a laser, (an effect discovered apparently by a mistake made in some high energy laser experiments in a lab) which could make an interesting workaround to the problem of optics overheating
My favorite is the Xaser.
That's when you set off a fission bomb, and focus the x-rays just before the whole thing blows up.
They make really good space mines.
Reagan pls
Thats not a XASER. XASERs are just X-Ray lasers. Just like a GRASER is "just" a gamma ray laser, extremely high energy but still the same concept as an IR laser. What you're thinking of is a bomb-pumped laser, which is typically in the X-Ray spectrum, but its not the only way of generating X-ray lasers, its just the easiest way to do it rapidly with our current technology.
@@battleoid2411 A bomb pumped xaser, is always a xaser. But not every xaser is bomb pumped.
If you're going to be pentatic, get it right.
An issue with mirrors is that they get dirty. Dirty mirrors collect more heat than they reflect. Even if you clean the mirror, it is now damaged and will continue to burn.
I've built and run die cutters and a temporary solution was to spin the mirror so the bad spot was in another position.
There's some good opportunity for a weapons failure in the middle of a fight scene or testing experimental armor in battle.
I kinda wish I could find another laser related job. It was fun and interesting playing with lasers. I also basically had a free engraver to play with.
Speasking of games that do lasers realistically, along with space-ship design: Terra Invicta. The game actually uses the gaussian equations to calculate the diameter of the laser versus the size of the mirror and range to calculate damage output. Similar to what the video describes, they even factor in optics size - as every laser has basically the same energy output, to calculate the relative effectiveness versus range. Plus, it adds cool concepts like Delta-V for maneuvering and as they talked about above, also radiators and heat-sinks.
Can you do an episode on Organic Spaceships like the wraith from Stargate
Don't forget the Leviathans from "Farscape"
Love me some Moya.
The First Ones in B5 too.
Depending on the laser wavelength, transparent materials can have a higher damage tolerance than metallic reflectors. This opens up the option of making laser Whipple shields or using shield drones to spoil the focus of incoming beams. Ablative armor should also be very effective as sooty black smoke will slow down the cut.
Was going to mention ablative armor as missing a mention in the vid.
Huh, that's a good point. Instead of taking or reflecting the laser, you just have a series of essentially windows to absorb some, but not all, of the laser as to "spread" the laser over a larger area. Perhaps not the most practical, maybe, but interesting nonetheless.
Woah! wasn't expecting to see Theo Bouvier's animations here from 1:51 - 2:15, These are animated and rendered by Theo Bouvier, but the spacecraft designs and idea are by L5Resident. These are for a work-in-progress story led by L5Resident called The Lunar War.
I do love the phrase, "A tiny bot horribly toxic"
Hello. I'm actually surprised to find this to be very informative. There are a lot of dedicated laser vids out there but your short summary was better than nearly all I have seen so far. Good job.
Always good to see Children of a Dead Earth get some love :) Must admit though, I never really got a laser system or ship to work very well. They were just too dang hot and required too much power from a reactor that was also too hot. I found I could get more bang for the buck from missiles or railguns.
Yaaay! Nebulous Fleet Command clip! i am super happy viewing clips of it on a such big channels!
I like the Honorverse bookseries's take on laser weaponry. The missiles are only a delivery system for multiple warheads wich are bomb pump lasers.
Ps. I video on stealth or EW would be nice for a later episode
Edut:some grammar
Short version - there is no stealth in space. A ship at the freezing point of water (~270 Kelvin) will stand out like a flare against space's background 3 Kelvin. A decent commander will be aware of local heat sources and have satellites/probes/allies watching the space between them and the heat source so nobody can hide in it. If you try to maneuver, then you are either turning on a powerful engine that can be easily seen, or are using cold-gas thrusters that have very low acceleration and delta-V so will take weeks or months to be in position. In the meantime your opponent uses their nuclear engine to move a small distance and throws all your calculations and maneuvers into the trash.
@@toddkes5890 oh, I am aware of it, but I didn't read/watch all the sci-fi media and I am interested how the different settings go about it. ^^
"The Laser Weapon Web" or somethoing like it is the system that taught the Kzinti their infamous Kzinti Lesson: a reaction drive's efficiency as a weapon is in direct proportion to its efficiency as a drive
The image he used to represent it also makes me think of the Solar System from the OG Gundam.
John Ringo's book Troy Rising has these that gets funnier and funnier names.
SAPL, or Solar Array Powered Laser aka the Serious Ass Powerful Laser, supported at various points by the VSA, or the Very Scary Array, the the BDA, or Big Damn Array, and the VDA, or Very Dangerous Array.
Excellent video! I really enjoyed it. Thank you for all your work in researching, developing, and posting it!
I really like these videos about the different weapon types that can be utilized in space combat. Keep up the great work!! 👍
In the setting I have been working on, smaller lasers find some use on ground units, but warships tend to not use them; except for one particular faction, that uses scary weird technology, and lasers are more or less an ammo-independent alternative to point defense guns, so they're rarely used at long range due to the inverse square law, and issues with targeting.
keep in mind that lasers consume a colossal ammount of ammo in the form of electricity, "laser ammo" becomes the weight of your reactor and it's fuel
and also, think of it that way: you need to cut in two a piece of wood, what do you use, your axe or your flashlight? the point here being that light is absolute trash at inflicting physical damage due to it's non physical nature (personally I'm in the camp that photons do have a mass and think the camp who think they are completely massless is wrong, but whatever the case, they have an extremely small ammount of mass no matter what and will always be light hitters as a result)
the ways to increase laser damage have always been to pack in more energy (smaller wavelength) or increase the ammount (higher laser luminosity)
they always go at the speed of light, and despite going that fast they do almost no kinetic damage, we don't know of any way to increase their kinetic damage, as such the only way to do "damage" light has (that we know off) is by transfering heat, which is an absolutely terrible and inefficient way to destroy something, compared with shoving metal objects going very fast through it
Will Particle or Plasma Cannons get separate vids?
Also, Laser Turrets could have their own radiators that can be retracted when not needed.
You definitely want to retract radiators before getting into combat. Otherwise radiators are large and fragile items critical for ship operation, and not retracting them means an opponent can cripple you easily.
The game "Attack Vector: Tactical" has this as a universal 'I Surrender' signal. If you extend your radiators it means your ship is about to cook from its own heat. If you keep firing while your radiators are extended, an opponent will have an easy time shooting them off and then you are in real trouble.
@@toddkes5890 Also you could have extra armor that is held a few meters away from the main hull to allow radiators to be "vented" (for lack of a better term) while still being protected although marginally so.
@@paulshealy1863 The radiators would then vent into the armor, meaning that either heat gets conducted back into the ship, the radiators work at lower efficiency, or you are using up lots mass on the 'armored' radiators that require lots of surface area to work. That mas of armor could be better put to use with more weapons, ammunition, main body armor, fuel, heat sinks, or a bigger engine.
@@toddkes5890 Not armored radiators but literally a slab of armor that is suspended from the main hull at say the broad side and would allow enough negative space for the radiator or a set of "battle radiators" to vent without fear of being shot off. But I see the point you are making and I was just trying to come up with cool way to justify an astetic choice also it could conceal any launch tubes or hungar bays with out the need to retract armor.
@@paulshealy1863
Mass Effect actually reconciled both your points when talking about it's science behind the heat management systems of starships.
An excerpt from the codex:
*Dispersal of heat generated by onboard systems is a critical issue for a ship. If it cannot deal with heat, the crew may be cooked within the hull.
Radiation is the only way to shed heat in a vacuum. Civilian vessels utilize large, fragile radiator panels that are impossible to armor. Warships use Diffuse Radiator Arrays (DRA), ceramic strips along the exterior of the armored hull. These make the ship appear striped to thermographic sensors. Since the arrangement of the strips depends on the internal configuration of the ship, the patterns for each vessel are unique and striking. On older ships, the DRA strips could become red- or white-hot. Dubbed "tiger stripes" or "war paint" by humans, the glowing DRA had a psychological impact on pirates and irregular forces.
Strip radiators are not as efficient as panels, but if damaged by enemy fire, the ship only loses a small portion of its total radiation capacity. In most cases, a vessel's DRA alone allows it to cruise with no difficulties. Operations deep within solar systems can cause problems.
A ship engaged in combat can produce titanic amounts of heat from maneuvering burns and weapons fire. When fighting in a high heat environment, warships employ high-efficiency "droplet" heat sinks.
In a droplet system, tanks of liquid sodium or lithium absorb heat within the ship. The liquid is vented from spray nozzles near the bow as a thin sheet of millions of micrometer-scale droplets. The droplets are caught at the stern and recycled into the system. A droplet system can sink 10-100 times as much heat as DRA strips.
Droplet sheets resemble a surface ship's wake through water. The wake peels out in sharp turns, spreading a fan of droplets as the ship changes vectors and leaves the coolant behind.*
Was literally looking up videos on this 2 day ago and couldn't find anything. This channel is definitely worth the subscribe.
Wonderful video, thank you for that! I've been doing research on this topic for a while now and this video sums up pretty much what I've also found out in my searches.
Could y’all do a Plasma weapons video next please
You could make this a troll vid:
"Plasma weapons don't work. Period."
End video.... :D
you didn't mention spinning to deal with lasers (giving the beam less time on any one spot). Especially if you are in a setting that has artificial gravity, you can potentially spin really fast without ill effects on the crew
That works until the other ship uses tractor beams to keep you in place
@@rommdan2716 do tractor beams prevent rotation? it takes a LOT more force to control rotation than it does to simply control position. (and it's common in science fiction for ships grabbed in tractor beams to rotate and try to escape )
@@davidelang That's why you use two, one attracting and the other repelling the ship
@@rommdan2716 that maintains position, it doesn't handle rotation. you would have to grab the edges of the ship (and do so on a point of the ship that is strong enough to not break off)
@@davidelang Yeah, you are right, just use the tractor beams to tear the ship apart already
I've been wondering about this for awhile, thanks for the comprehensive video
This is one of my favorite series please keep going
Wait, is he saying the Death Star firing multiple lasers that converge into a single laser is actually realistic? Or at least more realistic than you might think given it's part of a planet busting super-weapon?
No that footage is just a visual thing.
- hoojiwana from Spacedock
Spacedock is well aware that the Star Trek 'Lasers' are not lasers in the conventional sense and actually Particle Beam/Bolt weapons.
In an amazing and important way you ruined yet made my sci Fi understanding even that better. Thank you. I appreciate this more than you know 🥰
I've never seen. The concept of lasers explained with such simplicity. Thank you!
Spacedock,
Big fan of your videos, especially ones like this and your particle weapons video.
Please consider uploading your transcripts to a wiki or discussion board(if you haven't already done this). This is all great information for writers, future engineers and scientists, etc.
Also, please consider videos that discuss where we are currently with technology and what areas we need to reach to achieve certain science fiction propulsion, weapons, etc.
I think these things will really encourage discussion and give you ample subjects for future videos, as well as being even more beneficial for writers.
This kind of video is great research for my Sci-fi novel project. Given that I'm working on what my shipbourne weapon systems will be.
Great video.
Love seeing Space Engineers in this video! Also, Children of a Dead Earth, even though I never managed to get into it....
C’mon particle beam video, im already pumped!!! Been trying to write a sci-fi novel for like a year but am continually getting held up at the R&D stage because I keep finding content like this series and keep refining my in-universe science to make it more applicable, so all I do now instead of writing is just watch videos about science. I don’t even feel bad about it. “Oh man, I got so busy making my brain JACKED from knowledge I never wrote fiction,” seems a decent trade off imho
Video suggestion: point defense and active defence in sci fi.
Great vid, as always. Would like to see coverage of different energy-based sci-fy weapons systems. Such as Battletech Particle Projector Cannon. Or use of lasers as Point Defence systems like in Mass Effect and C&C Generals.
I will watch/listen to anything narrated by Hooji, his voice is so satisfying
I enjoy this sort of content. Keep it up
Fantastic video, thanks!
I absolutely love your work. I had to become a member. Idk if this would be popular, but can you please please please make some episodes about battletech/mechwarrior. I feel it's completely overshadowed by other properties of the genre. There is so much content there. My partner got me obsessed with the novels and I have played every game since mechwarrior 2. It would mean the world to me. There is so much content to be had. I wish I could be like like you and make videos on CZcams regarding my favorite scifi fiction stories, but I don't know where to begin. It's a fascinating story of human colonization and lost tech of a previous generation. I think someone with your amazing talents can bring this universe to the masses.
You showed footage of nebulous fleet command !!!! I love that game so much
THANK you, was so curious about that, didn't know the title!
Wasn't expecting so much Space Engineers footage, but it's a welcome surprise!
FINALLY!! My favorite kind of weapons!
I would love to see you do a video on shields/armor! would be perfect counterpart for these weapons
hehe clip from space engineer. I loved the 2cm beam mod. Some anime had laser difusing mist fired from near the ship.
As someone who actually worked with weaponized lasers most people do not seem to understand how they work. An aiming or adjustment beam is fired first for adjustments to the primary beam. Which people forget even very high energy beams will refract. They very much so have limits to their range. The major limits on these things are power supply and cooling, for the record in vacuum cooling is actually harder than in atmosphere as there is no material to exchange heat with.
Yesssss, CoaDE footage in my Spacedock. It's what I've always wanted!
"down near the sun for all the free energy"
If you're going to do that, just go with Archimedes' mirror writ large. Like SAPL from the *Troy Rising* series. While most of the characters refer to it as a laser, it's pointed out multiple times that it's not really a laser, it is collected and focused solar output.
This is pretty useful for my project. I wanna make lasers that feel partially legit next to real guns, and your info has some good framework for that. Thanks dude!
Thanks for the video. I am eager to learn more about radiators on the next one. I struggle to understand the dimensions of that need.
MOAR LOGH CLIPS YEEEEEES
That's one of the best examples of thermal expansion that I've seen lately.
The rest are in my Homework\seriously
oreally
opron\homework directory
In addition to the battle effects of lasers, they are also extremely useful for strategic effects. I.e. EVERY ship will overheat if you hit it with more heat than it can radiate. So you only need a spot size as small as the ship, and enough power to overwhelm cooling over the next few hours. So interplanetary laser combat is practical even if you won't be slicing ships in half. This is great for police actions, capturing vessels, or as a way for a laser broom cartel to impose profitable "rules of war" onto surrounding nations.
Glad to see Nebulous here. Awesome game!
I have a feeling that any big long range laser weapon turret will eventually suffer the same fate as high caliber ship guns: be replaced by missiles that generate lasers. It is possible to create a nuclear explosion-pumped X-ray laser, though currently we don't have a practical way of doing it efficiently. But if a cheap way of generating a single-use high power laser is ever developed, it means that you won't have to build any large laser turret that requires lots of fragile cooling systems, because the "laser-missile" is cheaper. Meaning that not only you can attack targets beyond the line of sight (which is something you can't do with a standard laser), but you also avoid the pesky problem of diffraction at long distances.
Modern warfare doctrine relies primarily on extending the range of weapons as much as possible, in both distance and direction/maneuverability, and I really don't see that changing in the future, so eventually someone will try to make this feasible one way or another.
Thanks for the content.
An interesting possible laser defense system might be one of retro reflectors sending some of the beam back to it's source. Of course relative motion of the source given enough distance/light lag could cause it to miss.
They have a greater surface area than regular mirrors too. Might be easier to cool even if the reflected shot doesn't hit every the time.
I’m so hype for the RADIATORS VIDEO!!!
Me: Phased plasma rifle in the 40W range?
Physics: Hey, just what ya see, pal.