So good to see u riding again. Yeah, those crest forks have a disposable cartridge damper same ones used by budget brand forks and is where the clunking comes from. Its not meant to have more than 130mm travel. Giant seems to just ignore this issue...it has a good stiff and light chassis but it does need better internals
Unforgivable having thick grips on a bike designed for people with small hands. Makes a very big difference. Great to see you riding,Steve! All the best.
Great review! Glad to see you riding. Your reviews got me into hardtails and I will never not have at least one in my quiver. I have the Fathom and once I swapped out the fork it gets ridden the most out of my fleet. I think you gave it a really fair and honest review.
Thanks for the great review. It looks like a good bike. I think I would make all of the changes you mentioned like getting a Fox 34, changing the head angle, moving the seat on the rail, adjust the brake handle and swap out to Ergon grips. Those were very insightful recommendations!
My wife has this bike has her backup bike to her Liv Pique Full Suspension. Her fork has the same issues. Even running less air, the O-Ring never shows she is getting the full travel of the fork. Since it's her backup bike, we haven't really thought of any upgrades at this time. Prob will eventually replace it with something from RockShox or FOX. Everything else is pretty nicely spec'd. She does complain about some clickly noises from time to time, but I have yet to pinpoint them on test rides as I can't get it to make the noise. Don't know if it's the fork or the internal cable routing like you mentioned. She loves the paint color on it.
The value proposition is what drew me to the men’s version (Fathom) and the 2021 Fathom 2 was specced with deore 12spd and was $1300 when I snagged it…I personally haven’t had a bad experience with the fork, although I’m a light rider at 140 lbs (63kg) so I’m not sure if that has anything to do with perceived performance. I’ll admit I’m sort of a noob when it comes to higher end components so I don’t have the same perspective as Steve who’s ridden pretty much every fork on the market. I’m interested to hear if his fork is functioning properly. If I were in the market for a bike now, the Giant/Liv bikes aren’t as competitive in terms of pricing as they used to be, but are still a solid base for upgrading IMO.
Good review, very objective. The bike looks OK, and you're right maybe for that price you could get a couple of better options, but if you have a Giant dealer less than 2km from home (like me) the "overprice" can be justified with a bit of peace of mind. Cheers!! :)
It's a pretty good deal but I wouldn't count on Giant warranty unless you find a very good local dealer. I had issues with 3 local dealers about a lot of failing components on the giant trance x 29 I bought new this last june, mostly brakes and terrible in house AM29 wheelset (giant in house hubs at cause) were defectives from day one and it took weeks in the shop to get a caliper replaced & read hub O-ring (really a oring spacer not kidding) soft washer replaced. When I got the bike back the other tektro caliper failed and both hubs still had play causing brakes to heat up, had to remove my upgrades (stem crank, drivetrain) for more warranty claim at my local store, they didn't fix the play in the hubs because it's "right on factory spec" so I got to another authorised dealer who didn't want to help me at all, so I contacted a third one (local giant store) and they refused to help, citing "not time for your crap go where you bought it" Anyway that's why I'm sour when someone mentions Giant's warranty, pfff. Giant isn't that great when it comes to it. I love the bike, paid 3100$ Canadian but I did put 2000$ of upgrades myself, ignoring warranty since it's a joke. Next bike will be mail ordered for sure 😂 Glad I was planning it since stock components were pretty bad but I was thinking to wait until warranty expired 😂 geez I wouldn't want to be someone buying this thing without any wrenching skills or credit card liberty 😂
I think a great dealer is key. We all want the best bang for the buck and we don't want to overpay, but on the bleeding edge budget bikes, they save price on hubs, brakes, bbs, headsets, rims, and anywhere else they can. OT almost feels like these days going to spend $2500 on a solid hardtail, whether you upgrade a budget one or buy a $2500 stock bike.
@@hardtailparty I can't stress how important it is to know a bit about the people where you buy the bike, my first mistake, my excuse is that availability was scarce at best. Second mistake; made the assumption that mid tier bikes starting over 2000$ where pretty much all equipped for serious trail use but in perfect honesty I knew deep down I'd have to do an upgrade pilgrimage, I was counting on the warranty to free up so cash before doing so but destiny choose otherwise 😔.
Isla Rowntree, a top UK racer, used to make womens' frames back at the advent of MTB. She made them with 80 degree seat tubes as women are differently built. She always looks just right on a bike
@@bradsanders6954 we'll see what my wife thinks of it in her upcoming review. My wife is 2" shorter than me but her legs are 4" longer than mine. With men, typically taller riders prefer slacker seat tube angles, but everyone is different.
Dealers are overated. My specialized dealer would not let me sit on a Stumpjumper Comp to test the fit of their new sizing without paying in full first. Only assembling it if paid. That defeats the purpose of a bricks and mortar shop. I bought from another local store, went in, got fitted, and they put me on a bike that was laughably small for my size. (Going with the manufzcturer rec would have put me on the right size.) Very luckily, I was able to essentially flip it for an equivalent bike for even mobey with a couple local riders.
Wow, that sounds like a terrible bike shop. I'm so sorry. There are a few fantastic shops left out there that understand the value of good customer service. It's sad how many shops sell people the wrong bike because it's all they have in stock.
Really good to see you feeling a bit better, Steve! Its fairly obvious and your voice says it all. Also, really good to hear your perspective on the local bike shop versus buying bikes from online-only manufacturers. I highly doubt you will see many "dudes" riding a LIV bike. Haha! It takes a man comfortable enough with themselves and their masculinity do ride a bike made for women. But what do I know? Haha!
This for $1850 or a Chameleon for $1950... I got a gen 7 Chameleon for $1700 when they first came out. I've been upgrading it bit by bit since, but I've still got the stock Fox 34.
Kind of wild that the HTA is so far from what is stated. I wish manufacturers did a better job with that because someone might come away from riding that thinking they need something steeper than a 66 HTA for their next bike when in reality they were riding something just shy of 65
Exactly. That's why I measure every bike on my geo meter in the first looks. Some measurements are WAY off on some bikes. Usually the factory is sent drawings with certain geo numbers, but the end product comes out different. If there's not a lot of prototyping and checking, you're stuck with what you've got.
Great color. So many brands have better color schemes for the women specific bikes. Good frame angles, if they are all like your test bike. Not impressed with the Sram SX, Crest fork and short reach numbers.
I agree, women's bikes get much better colors. Fortunately the sx is just the cranks. We get an nx derailleur on this which is a huge improvement over sx
Thanks! Cheaper bike, cheaper fork. For most of us buying a cheaper bike means expensive upgrades. A real fork can run 800.00, and up. For those of us that were riding mt bikes in the 80's these bikes are incredible value. Hard tails are in my now ancient past. 24lb dual suspension XC bikes work awfully well.
Indeed. But forks on sub $2k bikes can at least get someone out riding for a few years in a budget. If people want really solid components, they're going to need to avoid the budget bikes.
@@hardtailparty Yup. As long as the endless upgrade is avoided on a cheaper bike. That can end up costing more than a good bike in the first place....I do see guys that replace everything but the frame, but they seem to enjoy it.
As a giant fathom owner, I feel Giant is late to to the party. Trek and specialized redesigned and spec’d their Roscoe and Fuse with good components and compliance and Giant is still behind them. I feel they are trying to keep things cheaper for the consumer but maybe they aren’t focused on a hardcore hardtail. Idk to be honest. Just hard to continue with Giant if they aren’t going to modernize their trail hardtails.
@@hardtailparty agreed with that. When the fathom was introduced they led the way. When Trek redesigned the Roscoe, Giant added the thru axle. O well, the market is wide open right now with great hardtails out there. Interested to see your review of the Trans Am. Beautiful bike! Thanks again for the interaction and great content!
Its funny the womens bike from a earlier time looked more like the modern bikes today as far as the frame . As a kid it seemed like girls bikes were more appropriate for boys to make it a bit better protecting the family jewels with standover hight . It will be interesting to see your wifes persoective on the bike .
Yeah, those step thru designs were so girls could ride in skits and dresses. It wasn't very ladylike for your dress to be up by the top tube. Now, with droppers, it makes sense that we have better standover.
Go lower on psi in the fork thats what i did when i have the fathom that fork Is not that bad not the Best but a think Is much better than a Judy or Recon the weak component i found was the dropper post It last 1 year on my bike and It was imposible to found the cartige to replace
Maybe mine has a problem. I much prefer the Judy or the recon. I let out white a bit of air and it still felt the same. It's the damping, not the air spring.
Glad 2 see u riding!
So good to see u riding again. Yeah, those crest forks have a disposable cartridge damper same ones used by budget brand forks and is where the clunking comes from. Its not meant to have more than 130mm travel. Giant seems to just ignore this issue...it has a good stiff and light chassis but it does need better internals
Good to see you out there! Great video
Unforgivable having thick grips on a bike designed for people with small hands. Makes a very big difference.
Great to see you riding,Steve! All the best.
Excellent review as always Steve
Great review. Glad to see you riding. Hope all the best!
Great review and fantastic break down on the performance of the fork. Fantastic seeing you out riding Steve!!! Looking forward to the next one 👍👍
Thanks for doing these reviews, Steve. Hopefully Orbea will send you the new Laufey. There's very little content on the web, of the new one.
Great review! Glad to see you riding. Your reviews got me into hardtails and I will never not have at least one in my quiver. I have the Fathom and once I swapped out the fork it gets ridden the most out of my fleet. I think you gave it a really fair and honest review.
Happy to see you reviewing budget bikes
Great review! Reminds me of the Giant Fathom. I had a Fathom for my first bike and my experience riding it matches up with how you describe this one.
Killing it Hartail! Hope you're feeling better
Thanks. I have good days and bad days.
Thanks for the great review. It looks like a good bike. I think I would make all of the changes you mentioned like getting a Fox 34, changing the head angle, moving the seat on the rail, adjust the brake handle and swap out to Ergon grips. Those were very insightful recommendations!
Happy to see you riding again! LOVE that you are reviewing g a “women’s” MTB- and Love that your wife also rides and reviews bike too!!
Amazing! A bike with smaller wheels! From the world biggest manufacturer! What a time to be alive. :D
My wife has this bike has her backup bike to her Liv Pique Full Suspension. Her fork has the same issues. Even running less air, the O-Ring never shows she is getting the full travel of the fork. Since it's her backup bike, we haven't really thought of any upgrades at this time. Prob will eventually replace it with something from RockShox or FOX. Everything else is pretty nicely spec'd. She does complain about some clickly noises from time to time, but I have yet to pinpoint them on test rides as I can't get it to make the noise. Don't know if it's the fork or the internal cable routing like you mentioned. She loves the paint color on it.
I’d love to see you try that with a slightly better fork. Thanks for the review✌️
Nice one as usual, Steve,, hope you're doing okay.
Love to see you riding!! Have you been able to ride the trans am?
Not yet. Im working towards it.
@@hardtailparty Do your thing man!’ Thanks again!
Simple upgrade choice is the fork. Go with the shim stack damper Manitou Mattoc COMP. 412 black friday. Internally adjustable 110-160
That'd be a great upgrade, but now you're at a $2450 bike. At that price range, you can get a complete bike with a better fork and better components.
The value proposition is what drew me to the men’s version (Fathom) and the 2021 Fathom 2 was specced with deore 12spd and was $1300 when I snagged it…I personally haven’t had a bad experience with the fork, although I’m a light rider at 140 lbs (63kg) so I’m not sure if that has anything to do with perceived performance. I’ll admit I’m sort of a noob when it comes to higher end components so I don’t have the same perspective as Steve who’s ridden pretty much every fork on the market. I’m interested to hear if his fork is functioning properly. If I were in the market for a bike now, the Giant/Liv bikes aren’t as competitive in terms of pricing as they used to be, but are still a solid base for upgrading IMO.
Good review, very objective. The bike looks OK, and you're right maybe for that price you could get a couple of better options, but if you have a Giant dealer less than 2km from home (like me) the "overprice" can be justified with a bit of peace of mind. Cheers!! :)
I agree. Being able to see a bike in person is worth a lot.
It's a pretty good deal but I wouldn't count on Giant warranty unless you find a very good local dealer.
I had issues with 3 local dealers about a lot of failing components on the giant trance x 29 I bought new this last june, mostly brakes and terrible in house AM29 wheelset (giant in house hubs at cause) were defectives from day one and it took weeks in the shop to get a caliper replaced & read hub O-ring (really a oring spacer not kidding) soft washer replaced. When I got the bike back the other tektro caliper failed and both hubs still had play causing brakes to heat up, had to remove my upgrades (stem crank, drivetrain) for more warranty claim at my local store, they didn't fix the play in the hubs because it's "right on factory spec" so I got to another authorised dealer who didn't want to help me at all, so I contacted a third one (local giant store) and they refused to help, citing "not time for your crap go where you bought it"
Anyway that's why I'm sour when someone mentions Giant's warranty, pfff. Giant isn't that great when it comes to it.
I love the bike, paid 3100$ Canadian but I did put 2000$ of upgrades myself, ignoring warranty since it's a joke.
Next bike will be mail ordered for sure 😂
Glad I was planning it since stock components were pretty bad but I was thinking to wait until warranty expired 😂
geez I wouldn't want to be someone buying this thing without any wrenching skills or credit card liberty 😂
I think a great dealer is key. We all want the best bang for the buck and we don't want to overpay, but on the bleeding edge budget bikes, they save price on hubs, brakes, bbs, headsets, rims, and anywhere else they can. OT almost feels like these days going to spend $2500 on a solid hardtail, whether you upgrade a budget one or buy a $2500 stock bike.
@@hardtailparty I can't stress how important it is to know a bit about the people where you buy the bike, my first mistake, my excuse is that availability was scarce at best. Second mistake; made the assumption that mid tier bikes starting over 2000$ where pretty much all equipped for serious trail use but in perfect honesty I knew deep down I'd have to do an upgrade pilgrimage, I was counting on the warranty to free up so cash before doing so but destiny choose otherwise 😔.
Ride review!
Damn when did you record this video? You sound strong!
This was recorded last week when I was having a good day. I've been bed bound since then, but slowly recovering.
Looking at this or a trek roscoe 7. Have you reviewed the roscoe? Whats your opinion between the two?
Yes, see my videos. For booe comparisons and advice, i do that over on Patreon.
Isla Rowntree, a top UK racer, used to make womens' frames back at the advent of MTB. She made them with 80 degree seat tubes as women are differently built. She always looks just right on a bike
I suppose that can work. Ive dated women 5 foot tall, and long legged women 5' 11" tall.
They do vary.
@@bradsanders6954 we'll see what my wife thinks of it in her upcoming review. My wife is 2" shorter than me but her legs are 4" longer than mine. With men, typically taller riders prefer slacker seat tube angles, but everyone is different.
@@hardtailparty It's not to do with leg/torso proportions, it's to do with the pelvis.
@@jeremyatkinson4976 that makes a ton of sense! Fascinating. Thanks for clarifying.
Google Isla Rowntree; you'll be impressed with how she revolutionised childrens' bikes. She lives pretty close to here.@@hardtailparty
You should keep us posted on what you find out about the fork.
Reading the comments section, it sounds like others have had similar experiences with their forks.
personally I hate when brakes are not mounted/matched with the shifter and dropper lever clamps. I also hate when cables are too long.
I haven't seen many options under $2k with those features. I guess you've got to cut costs somewhere in these budget bikes.
Dealers are overated. My specialized dealer would not let me sit on a Stumpjumper Comp to test the fit of their new sizing without paying in full first. Only assembling it if paid. That defeats the purpose of a bricks and mortar shop. I bought from another local store, went in, got fitted, and they put me on a bike that was laughably small for my size. (Going with the manufzcturer rec would have put me on the right size.) Very luckily, I was able to essentially flip it for an equivalent bike for even mobey with a couple local riders.
Wow, that sounds like a terrible bike shop. I'm so sorry. There are a few fantastic shops left out there that understand the value of good customer service. It's sad how many shops sell people the wrong bike because it's all they have in stock.
Really good to see you feeling a bit better, Steve! Its fairly obvious and your voice says it all. Also, really good to hear your perspective on the local bike shop versus buying bikes from online-only manufacturers. I highly doubt you will see many "dudes" riding a LIV bike. Haha! It takes a man comfortable enough with themselves and their masculinity do ride a bike made for women. But what do I know? Haha!
Its sad that the 3 letters painted on a bike make some men feel insecure. There's a lot of insecurity in this sport unfortunately.
@@hardtailparty I'm man enough to ride a step through frame... if it had the geometry of my Middlechild!
@@taknname that'd be a dream!
@@hardtailparty There is a lot of insecurity for most people. Unfortunately. Good to see you aren't one of them!
@@taknname I've ridden Biria on Barrel Roll. Scraped the frame a bit...
Giant have a habit of making low grade component copies. Back in the day they fitted their own very poor disc brakes. Superficially Hope copies.
Have you changed your camera set up?
Yes. 2 months ago I upgraded to the hero 12
This for $1850 or a Chameleon for $1950...
I got a gen 7 Chameleon for $1700 when they first came out. I've been upgrading it bit by bit since, but I've still got the stock Fox 34.
The rhythm 34 on those chameleons is a fantastic fork. No need to upgrade it.
Kind of wild that the HTA is so far from what is stated. I wish manufacturers did a better job with that because someone might come away from riding that thinking they need something steeper than a 66 HTA for their next bike when in reality they were riding something just shy of 65
Exactly. That's why I measure every bike on my geo meter in the first looks. Some measurements are WAY off on some bikes. Usually the factory is sent drawings with certain geo numbers, but the end product comes out different. If there's not a lot of prototyping and checking, you're stuck with what you've got.
The measurement he did was from the fork? Not the head tube?
LOL... You can be a man and ride these...😂✌️
That tickled the fancy a tad bit...
Great color. So many brands have better color schemes for the women specific bikes. Good frame angles, if they are all like your test bike. Not impressed with the Sram SX, Crest fork and short reach numbers.
I agree, women's bikes get much better colors. Fortunately the sx is just the cranks. We get an nx derailleur on this which is a huge improvement over sx
Thanks! Cheaper bike, cheaper fork. For most of us buying a cheaper bike means expensive upgrades.
A real fork can run 800.00, and up.
For those of us that were riding mt bikes in the 80's these bikes are incredible value.
Hard tails are in my now ancient past. 24lb dual suspension XC bikes work awfully well.
Indeed. But forks on sub $2k bikes can at least get someone out riding for a few years in a budget. If people want really solid components, they're going to need to avoid the budget bikes.
@@hardtailparty Yup. As long as the endless upgrade is avoided on a cheaper bike. That can end up costing more than a good bike in the first place....I do see guys that replace everything but the frame, but they seem to enjoy it.
As a giant fathom owner, I feel Giant is late to to the party. Trek and specialized redesigned and spec’d their Roscoe and Fuse with good components and compliance and Giant is still behind them. I feel they are trying to keep things cheaper for the consumer but maybe they aren’t focused on a hardcore hardtail. Idk to be honest. Just hard to continue with Giant if they aren’t going to modernize their trail hardtails.
I feel like giant was way ahead of the game when the fathom came out, but a lot of other companies have started to catch up.
@@hardtailparty agreed with that. When the fathom was introduced they led the way. When Trek redesigned the Roscoe, Giant added the thru axle. O well, the market is wide open right now with great hardtails out there. Interested to see your review of the Trans Am. Beautiful bike! Thanks again for the interaction and great content!
Its funny the womens bike from a earlier time looked more like the modern bikes today as far as the frame . As a kid it seemed like girls bikes were more appropriate for boys to make it a bit better protecting the family jewels with standover hight . It will be interesting to see your wifes persoective on the bike .
Yeah, those step thru designs were so girls could ride in skits and dresses. It wasn't very ladylike for your dress to be up by the top tube. Now, with droppers, it makes sense that we have better standover.
so im a transgender woman.....man to a woman......im a little confused? will this bike suit me
Wait, your wife is dusty betty?
Yup, we've been married since before our CZcams channels began.
Go lower on psi in the fork thats what i did when i have the fathom that fork Is not that bad not the Best but a think Is much better than a Judy or Recon the weak component i found was the dropper post It last 1 year on my bike and It was imposible to found the cartige to replace
Maybe mine has a problem. I much prefer the Judy or the recon. I let out white a bit of air and it still felt the same. It's the damping, not the air spring.