Dune 2021's "Sand Screen" Method VFX Breakdown
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- čas přidán 7. 04. 2022
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The original 1984 Dune film was criticized for being complicated and confusing, this was mainly because the original story was too intricate to be covered in just one movie, even if it was a long one. Dune 2021 avoided this problem by deciding from the very start that the story should take place over two movies.
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Getting Practical.
For Dune, the filmmakers wanted to get as much as possible "in camera", which meant only doing effects digitally when doing it practically wasn't possible.
The idea was to keep everything photoreal and natural and to embrace the environments they filmed in, however, the film takes place in a dry desert environment with harsh bright sunlight, and this kind of bright light would be very difficult to replicate on an indoor set for shoots of the interior of the Ornithopters.
Initially, they thought about using LED screens as a background for these shots, but there was no way that the LED screens would be able to recreate the bright and dazzling desert light.
So the team decided that if they were going to shoot something that was going to be outside, they would have to shoot it, outside.
For the interior ornithopter work they actually built two 12 tonne Ornithopters and took them out to Budapest then they picked the highest hill they could find and built a gimbal at the top of it, this gave them a nice and flat horizon and the ability to move and rotate their 12-tonne Ornithopter, next, they built a 7.5-meter high sand-colored ramp, 360 degrees, all the way around the gimbal, this they called "The Dog Collar". This collar served two purposes, firstly it bounced the bright sunlight straight onto the Ornithopter from all directions, and secondly when they shot the action focused on the actors, the ramp in the background was out of focus, this blurred sandy background could then be blended with the background footage they'd shot previously with 6 cameras in a helicopter flying over the deserts of the United Arab Emirates.
Sand screens.
Even though sets would have to be extended and other things would have to be added digitally, bluescreens and greenscreens weren't really a viable option and this was for a variety of reasons:
one was because an actor gives a better performance when they are immersed in an environment rather than surrounded by bluescreens, another was that light reflects off the blue and green screen and actually spills out onto things around them, giving everything a blue or green tinge.
But perhaps one of the main reasons is that the VFX teams really wanted to ground everything in reality, knowing that under such intense sunlight virtually everything becomes a reflective surface they knew that if they were to use bluescreens they would also appear on these reflections.
The Solution? Sand-colored screens. By using sand-colored screens they ensured that the actors would still feel like part of the environment, that any color spilling from the screens would also be a similar color to the environment, and that any reflections appearing on armor or people's faces would also be in keeping with the desert environment.
The clever thing about using sand-colored screens is that if you look at a color wheel you will notice that on the opposite side to those orangey and yellowy sand colors you have blues, so if you shoot a sand screen background and then invert the colors you effectively have a bluescreen.
Of course, extensive tests were done to find the right color for the sand, and they found that depending on where the sun was during the shoot they would lose a bit of color but on the whole, this clever solution worked beautifully.
Sand and more sand.
A lot of reference work was done with helicopters in order to get them to throw up dust swirls and clouds but for some of the ornithopter shots, they shot a helicopter directly from another helicopter and then replaced it with their ornithopter.
The sandstorm was also based on reference material of a real-life sandstorm in Africa obtained from National Geographic this gave them a front-on view of a massive sandstorm. This helped them to find the balance between how tremendously big and menacing it is and also how surprisingly slowly it moves.
Huge fans were also used to blow sand around during the shots and even though around 18 tonnes of sand and dust were used, the VFX team knew they'd have to add even more digitally later on.
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I feel clickbaited. That thumbnail showed them standing in sand boxes and then you never talked about it. Feelsbad.
I know your feeling
The channel is famous for these
Seriously. Seeing actors standing in kitty litter is the only reason that I clicked on the thumbnail.
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You must be new to CZcams
sand color screens sound so genius that the vfx artists probably had to roto every single element in every scene. i bet the inverting trick worked well when it also inverted everyone's clothes and skin too!
Plus, uhh, why invert it? Surely the toolset isn't so horrible that it's hardcoded to use only blue or green? There's really no reason to design such a tool and not have it support arbitrary colors. This was definitely 'some chromakey and a lot of roto'. The end result is good, but I think this is less 'genius trick' and more 'general design that makes the shots look less artificial and greenscreeny'.
@@GrandHighGamer You can key any color. The only reason blue and green are most often used is because those are colors that are least likely to appear elsewhere in the scene.
I guess it's more a way for the roto people to look at the frame differently to spot small mistakes - the same way artists often squint, of flip their canvas to check that their composition is harmonious.
No bro, I don't think inversion would be that much of an issue. Remember at this budget level they can afford to build advanced custom plugins and tools to do exactly what they want to do. Don't view this with the lens of the tools that you're familiar with.
Yeah my first thought was, yeah genius if you invert it you get a bluescreen where your blue actor is wearing blue on a blue set... Definitely sounds like they roto'd everything anyway
Issue with simply “inverting” sand screen to get a blue screen is that actors faces also get inverted that way & the whole point of blue or green screens is so have something different enough from the actors to get a clean key. So a color key wasn’t possible & extensive roto work & luma keys was the answer
yeah, not to mention it inverts all the actual sand too, so other than having no blue spill on your talent, I'm not sure it accomplishes much more than ensuring job security for all your roto artists heheheh
Yeah, some of the sand screen justifications never did make sense to me. The main reason one uses green or blue traditionally is because human skin has very little of it. Making separation easier and keys more detailed. Sand... That's basically skin color to begin with.
But, yes. With modern digital compositing and roto artists, and modern high bitrate digital sensors, it is beneficial to at least have A flat even plane behind the subjects. It may not be possible to straight key out, but neither is a traditional green or bluescreen anyway. They almost always need clean-up to work well. So the benefits of having something that at least doesn't spill unwanted colors and reflections probably weighed up the troubles of a little mire roto work.
I basically do not really get that whole "invert it for blue key" reasoning. As the subjects skin also would get that same blue.
The part about a color key being impossible isn't true - Go watch the recent DNEG deep dive video about Dune, the sandscreens are one of the first topics they cover. The VFX supervisor himself talks about inverting the colors to get essentially a bluescreen out of it - of course its not as straight forward as a normal bluescreen, but according to him, some specific tools in Nuke work only with blue or green by design, so it was still usable for that. In productions of that scale, you usually dont pull a simple key and are done with it anyway, its just the starting point for roto work. Same here, just a bit more annoying in the beginning :)
Inverting would only be needed to get a mask which would then be applied to a non-inverted image. But I'm pretty sure software isn't hard-coded to blue or green screens.
@@000muppfel anyone who's opened nuke knows exactly what you're saying. This makes me wonder how many other colors could be used to match the background and still converted to make green or blue? I PAed on a set where they used black as the background and I asked the vfx supervisor and she's just like it saves a lot of roto.
Dune 2021 is so watchable. It has to mostly be from the "photo realistic" in-camera approach. Thanks for a great review
A prefect example of using cgi to enhance why they filmed and not rely on it. Also I had no idea Duncan’s amour was replaced with his shirt. This and a lot of what you said furthers why it deserved the Oscar.
I’m often amazed how creative the thumbnails are. Like actual photoshop work went into them.
That white shirt retouching detail is awesome. I can't imagine how much time and effort went into getting that to look so good, but it's probably nothing compared to what a reshoot would cost.
"Invert the sand color and you get a blue screen" I think editing tools let you pick whatever color you want for keying, right? But this means everything is keyed out... I'm pretty sure they just have to brute force it with rotoscoping and key-masking.
Indeed. The sandcolored backgrounds makes it easier to ad sandcolored objects and the rotoscoping doesnt have to be 100% perfect everywhere.
Indeed, it's stupid to say that because the whole scene would turn blue. So the "blue background" would be useless.
@@theplouf5533 Is there not a way to invert the color and use that as the key for whatever you're doing but make the original non-inverted scene displayed on top? Like a visual sidechain compressor?
@@SeanofAllTrades If your base color is similar to foreground and background. There is nothing that can differentiate this information. But in my opinion, color invesion is not used for this purpose.
It must be useful to "simulate" the bluescreen environment which must be replaced by other studios in charge of 3d and compositing only after having been rotoscoped by hand. This makes it clear to them what to replace or not. (as usual)
I think it's poorly explained in the video, but it may have helped at some point to keep the same processes. No markers to erase, no grid needed for tracking, and rotoscoping can be rough without overflowing with blue or green.
It should be remembered that most color backgrounds are no longer used as a color key except for complex elements such as certain complex outlines, transparency and shadows. Most of the time the studios end up rotoscoped everything. The blue mainly serving as a clearly visible marker (something artificially reproduced for some VFX teams for this movie)
Sorry for translation, i'm french.
Exactly. I pretty much wtf'd out when he got to that point. My best guess is that when you have to roto it makes it easier when you don't have to clean blue spill from hair?
Great special effects and every actor gets their own litter box, what more could you ask for?
I love this channel. As a filmmaker it shows me what is possible and the impossible made possible! Keep up the great work!
I enjoyed this movie a lot. It felt like watching Star Wars or Avatar 3D for the first time again. I'm really excited to watch the next installment. I hope they do indeed go for a 3rd one too.
When that lawyer spoiled Dune 2 and 3 during the Depp v Heard trial lol
"Sand Color screens" is really genius.
Said the roto artist in a sarcastic tone.
It seems like Hollywood has to roto everything anyway bc when you see BTS footage, the green screen setups usually suck. Doing away with them really does help the lighting IMO.
Come for the giggle-worthy thumbnails, stay for the actually solid content.
"I.....hate.....sand"
- Anakin
love the explanations and narration part. But apart from that, I love those thumbnails and love each of them a lot.
I am a FAN of your thumbnails 😆. That shows the creative and unrestricted way u think about VFX shots.
Hope u will keep up these creative thumbnail ideas, flowing in all your future videos. Thanks for such content.
And yeah, I checked out your music "Monkey", and I love them too. Superbly done 😃
Thank you so much!
These thumbnails always cracks me up lol
This is such an interesting channel. Great and interesting videos. New subscriber 👍🏻😊
The thumbnail is so hilarious I love it even when it's fake 😂
It was really nice of the producer to give the actors each their own litter tray.
wow amazing. explains why the whole movie felt incredibly authentic and immersive
i clicked the thumbnail
to see the actors in tiny sandbathes. dissapointed there was no segment about that. it was a nice video but it did mot deliver on the thumbnail. it would have been very funny to see.
Yeah, I’m going to unsubscribe from this guy because of the fake thumbnails.
You're doing great bro
It does not hame to be blue or green screens. you can literally film on what ever color you want. the reason green or blue is used is because its the least common color people wear and its a bright color. easier for computers to pick up. And yes they could have used LED screens. They did in the Mandolorian and Book of Boba Fett and both those shows are in a desert mostly.
Blue and green are used not because of colours people wear but because those are the furthest from skin tones just so to protect the subject when removing the chroma key.
the reason they didn't use LEDs was because they wanted very high luminosity and contrast, to make it more raw. The mandalorian looks good, but it doesn't have that same overpowering luminosity that dune has, where the light washes out the colors. I don't think that look could have worked as well on LED screens, which is why they shot outside, and in turn why monochromatic screens were used instead of massive LED panels.
@@maximeteppe7627 Couldn't they just raise the camera's exposure? They'll anyways use ND filters in sunlight, I assume the led screens are bright enough for the camera at base ISO so it's not like they get any less dynamic range than they would outside
It wouldn't give the high contrast blast of sunlight you would get in the open like that. There are some things that LED can do but in this movie, it would look artificial one way or the other due to the other scenes shot in the open
When I saw the original _Dune_ movie in 1984 I was warned it was "incomprehensible" so I paid close attention to the opening narration. I found it to be completely comprehensible and it's still one of my favorite movies. It may be weird, but it's very memorable.
Your thumbnail makes me dangerously angry
so nice bro
I wanted to find out about the actors standing in kitty litter trays like in the thumbnail...
I think ,thumbnail needs to be base on the fact in this kind of content.
In the reference still before the video plays it looks like they are all in cat litter boxes. “Put your hand in the litter box.” “What’s in it?” “Cat poop.”
"There's no way an LED screen could replicate the bright and dazzling desert lights".
*clears throat* The Mandalorian.
The only Anakin-approved "sand" in the universe
the one and only true king: ROTOSCOPING
I wonder if any A.I. roto tools were used. I would love to see some BTS of the roto work. Seems like a total nightmare, but it sure paid off. I find green screen and blue screen shots generally stand out as a bit fake, even with great roto/key work. The sand-colored bounce absolutely worked wonders to unify the elements. I don't recall thinking a single shot looking "greenscreen" in Dune. Every shot looked pretty legit.
If anyone has any links that show them actually utilizing the sand screens in post I would love that. Countless videos talking about it, but none showing them inverting it to blue, and using it to create a key.
Seems impossible as all the footage you want to keep (sand, skin) is now also an inverted blueish color....right?
exactly... would love to hear from the actual vfx team that had to do the work how much of a nightmare this was. what a revolutionary idea! let's make our chroma key skin-colour so we don't get weird colour reflections on people's skin! lol
Sand coloured screens only work (efficiently time-wise) if the foreground actor is heavily contrasted or mostly in silhouette, then you can easily pull a luma key. Otherwise, ship the shots off to India for TONS and tons of roto urgh. Imagine having to roto flowing cloth
"Freh-men" not Freeman. Good video though. Amazing film. I can't wait for part 2.
inverting the beige? what? how do you think roto works?
Sand color screens: obviously they can film faster because they don´t have to be care about to light the chromas, but they have a lot of roto work which they will almost certainly make in India for a very low price.
It is not a better system as chroma key, or are all the movies that have been made with chroma poorly made?
About sun lighting on an indoor set for shots of the ornithopters: it is very easy to do... use an appropiate small spotlight and a camera with a very high sentitive senser (as Sony a7s), and you have it.
"sand screen" seems like a bright idea from a producer... rather than the people who now have to roto every freaking scene
It seems that most of the time, hand roto is done anyway to clean up the greenscreen shots - fixing the color spill to get a better looking shot seems like a better Idea in the long term - especially since pretty good AI driven rotoscoping tools are starting to appear.
no one i knew thought it was complicated or confusing because well we read the books beforehand and knew the story intimately so there that still think it was better than the new one
Checks video quality. 1080p?
the amount of rotoscoping hurts my brain :D
roto is one of the worst jobs in the industry, when i worked in that field Pro back in 2012/13 some of the studios couldn't find ANYONE to do the work.... so they were hiring people off the streets...
no joke
@@mrgoob76 i know, i have spent many days rotoscoping in the last 20 years. it can be kinda fun, you can basically switch most of your brain off or listen to audiobooks on the side :D but it also kinda sucks :D
I swear theyre going to make a movie thats fully cg one day and nobody will know.
LED screen cant replicate the bright sunlight, but Mandalorian and Book of Boba Fett has no problem acting like it is.
They still light the stage. The environmment made by the wall is more for secondary lighting, reflective metals, immersion of the actors
@@AlexandrePRODHOMME and make up artist as well. I feel so dry and hot watching boba fett gets drag around on the sand.
My backdrop green screen for my low budget star wars adaption fan film is $9.99 👋😬🙌 but good luck with your lifestyle choices thanks 👍
3* movies
The inverting the colour wheel thing makes no sense. You can key out ANY COLOUR - the reason green and blue are used is that human skin tends to be aroung the red end of the spectrum.
Fremen were trained to use cat litter boxes
Most stuff shot on blue or green screens is still manually rotoscoped for best results so this really isn't that big of a difference for the artists
I pity the roto team they cannot key out blue, grren screen, so they had to manually roto out 😫😫😫😫😫😫
If you thought the 1984 movie was "too intricate" then you have an IQ of about 85 - the level at which the US armed forces will reject you, because there isn't a single job you can do in the military that won't actually create more work for other (smarter) people.
It was a fabulous and brilliant movie that did the story proud.
Isn't sand almost the same colour as skin, which is the colour green and blue screens are trying to avoid? Can't imagine it would've keyed very well at all
invert the colour and its blue, like a blue screen
@@yobilivingstone7329 If you invert the colours, then any human skin in the scene gets inverted to a similar colour too. The point in a blue or green screen is the contrast between the screen and human skin. I don't see how inverting helps at all
this makes keying hard. unless the original raw video had more colors, then this process looks too much painstaking
Can we talk about the thumbnails of your videos? They are incredibly, and intentionally misleading. You go out of your way to make it look like everything is filmed in the most absurd way possible just to get people to click on the video.
Please note, I love visual effects, and I love visual effects breakdowns. Too many people are oblivious to this beautiful art, and I appreciate that you are trying to spread awareness of just how much work goes into these movies. I applaud you for that. But you are misinforming people with your thumbnails in a very blatant way. The literal title of this video includes sand screens! Yet the thumbnail depicts a ridiculous interpretation of what a sand screen looks like!
On a side note, you are really good at compositing, the thumbnails are quite convincing 🤣
The thumbnail pissed me off so I couldn't help but click to check the comments. I didn't watch the video out of principle but he did get a click and even a comment from me. Engagement! Hope he's happy.
I love the thumbnails for this channel cos I feel like there’s a bit of humour in them.
I skimmed the video looking for the thumbnail, then came here to check the comments
shame you didn't actually explain anything
And they wonder why making a movie like this take a bit.
It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere.
❤️❤️ India 🇮🇳
MAKE nowayhome more
Can anyone re-explain the shirt cgi??????
Human cat box
Fake thumbnail again? Unsubscribing.
Nice breakdown :) But i still find the 80s Dune somehow better :)
Amen.
And then there is black widow😂
there was no definition in anything.
Of the amazing VFX shots, the only scenes that I felt they paled in comparison with everything else were the ones with the Ornithopters. They felt... average (dynamics, behaviour, amd integreation wise), like if they came out of a Marvel movie. I guess it was a different team.
nah, all the vfx was DNEG
Loved the video but had to drop a dislike due to all the adverts you placed.
ITs a hopter not thopter LOL
skill Share Skill Share Skill Share Skill Share.... Just rename the video to Skill Share
Wow get paid big money to act in a Cat litter box.
Good on yer.
Rhaaah the whining about fu***ing skillshare everywhere.
This movie was horrible to watch on the phone So darkly saturated
The biggest boring thing ever made by mankind is this movie.
La de ahora es pobre en comparación con la de 1984 ...es como comparar un cuadro de Daly con una mamarracho de manchas de arte moderno " ...la actual es una pálida representacion en donde los efectos son todo gracias a la computación del cgi...encambio antes los efectos eran artesanales llenos de delicadeza y detalles con escenografías reales q llevaban tiempo y sacrificio...antes los efectos sí eran a pulmón con maquetas mientras q ahora es todo fácil gracias al cgi....nosé como la gente no aprecia la calidad de fotografía de las películas ochenteras ...de los colores vividos y escenografías reales sin cgi q transportan a otro mundo realmente mientras q ahora las escenas son grises osea pobres en colores como los autos grises q sacan en serie las fábricas automotores cuyos diseños son horribles ...todo lo de los ochenta es mejor ...nadie sabe apreciar eso ...es como la gente q oye reguetón y no entiende ni aprecia la música de los ochenta ...gente zombie sin capacidad para apreciar nada ni comparar nada osea sin sentido de la estética ni valoración o valores de nada ....q epoca más patética la de este Kaly yuga
what a feat...if only the movie had any story
So you never read the book? Dune by Frank Herbert? It's a way to better understand the movie!
So they took drugs and pretended to make a movie....wow...epic.
That's a really stupid thumbnail for a non-comic video.
the quality of this video is so poor
hollywood sucks because of cgi nonsense actors talk with air or nothing at all all new movies look like animated cartoons film industry sucks movie can be made by anyone in i big room filled with green screens
I watched this film yesterday...What utter tripe...Absolutely utter dismal film..
It's in the top 10 worst films ever....
This is why movies aren't fun to watch anymore. It is pretty much all fake sets and costumes and we give millions of dollars to actors to stand in an air conditioned warehouse. We don't even need real actors either just make new ones with CGI and computer voices . Won't even have to pay them .
i guess you dont watch the video then
The movie was so boring, stopped after a few minutes.
you fail
I suggest read the book.Be warned however,it is also a slow read but once you get into that world, it's pretty simple.A struggle for power over resources.
If you stop watching after a few minutes you don't have the right to complain.
I think ,thumbnail needs to be base on the fact in this kind of content.
Can anyone re-explain the shirt cgi??????