Sony Picture Profiles & Dynamic Range Guide (Cine vs S-Log vs HLG)
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 28. 07. 2024
- Comparing the dynamic range & gamma options of the Picture Profiles for Sony cameras like the Sony a7 III such as Cine2, Cine4, HLG, HLG3, S-Log2, & S-Log3.
đ Thanks for watching! Please like, comment, & subscribe.
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Table of Contents:
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0:00 - Intro
0:44 - Explanation of Test Process & Luma Waveforms
2:30 - Evaluating Cine2 vs Cine4
3:38 - S-Log2 vs S-Log3 - Dynamic Range
4:24 - Noise Comparison - S-Log3 vs S-Log2
4:58 - S-Log3 Shot Two Stops Over
5:58 - The Advantages of HLG3 on the Sony a7 III
7:24 - Comparison of HLG Versions: HLG, HLG1, HLG2, & HLG3
9:16 - Cine4 vs Cine2 at Low ISOs
10:31 - S-Log3 vs Cine2 vs HLG3 - Dynamic Range & Noise
11:42 - HLG Has Better Shadows
12:03 - Which Picture Profile Is Best on Sony a7 III?
12:24 - Myth: The Picture Profile Number Matters (e.g. PP3 vs PP8)
13:40 - A Few Notes on the Color Options (Cinema, BT.2020, etc)
14:22 - Myth: The Knee & Black Level Can Increase Dynamic Range
15:17 - In-Camera Sharpening: Turning the Detail Down to -7
15:29 - Conclusion
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#sony #video #camera - VÄda a technologie
Always love your in-depth videos. Really appreciate your research! Very helpful!
Hey! Thanks so much. I love your videos too. I watch them on the regular. Love your style! đđ
Two of my favourites on youtube complimenting each other :D that's just awesome ^^
@@3litza for real! i find it soo funny when two persons amazing at their craft look up to each other for completely different reasons. It makes me feel better as a photographer. Although the business i lost from this coronavirus might prove to be it for me. but it was awesome two years and Its still nice that i can learn from these videos.
@@josaelversaguis6196 sorry to hear that. I hope you can recover from the loss. hang in there and stay safe
Yo yo ! If Cine 2 what would you recommend movie, cinema, s gamut cine etc Iâm using Sony A6600 x
This video is so much better the second time with a Sony camera in my hand :)
Alien tech !
Agreed! lol...
Agreed đ
Absolutely! lol
Hey man- Professional Editor and Colorist here who owns and shoots (for fun) on a a7iii- very good information presented here, all of it correct. Thanks
Thanks, Christopher! Appreciate you chiming in. Cheers! đđ
One thing he did not get correct was that he said that hlg2 and hlg1 serve no purpose. In reality, they each trade off dynamic range for lower noise (as per Sony).
Christopher - uhhh - I totally disagree with you. He makes so many mistakes and clearly doesn't understand S log or the difference between 'legal range' vs 'full range' PP's. Would love to debate it with you.
@@phantomluts Any place that you recommend to learn better than here?
@Joel - Profiles that go above 100 IRE aren't what makes it full range vs legal range. I believe you might be misinformed there. Even Cine2 which only goes to 100 IRE can provide full range, the 109 advantage of other profiles is for creative flexibility not achieving "full range".
Open with : "with great gear comes great responsibility"
Me: This Sony manual is impossible to understand.
GUD: Hold my poutine.
đđđ
I just jumped into PP in my Sony and have been researching heavily. It left me with far more questions then answers...And you managed to answer all of them in 16 minutes. This is a perfect video IMO. I cant thank you enough for this material.
Mark Grayson,
Whiskey Brothers Records
Spectacular, love the fact based approach versus subjective view. Keep it up!
This is so objective and in-depth review of popular picture profiles of Sony mirrorless cameras, very informative and helpful. Thanks, Gerald.
OMG, the work that went to this video, only you know that. impressed with this channel.
Thanks so much! đđ
Man, thank you for all of the time and effort you put into your videos!!! You have become my go to channel/source for technical filmmaking info. You have helped me finally start to really understand the science behind picture profiles. Thank you for debunking all the myths surrounding this topic. I really really appreciate it. Iâm excited to go practice shooting and experimenting with HLG3 and Cine2 now that I actually understand how they work. I recently switched from Canon to Sony and donât have any real experience shooting with different PPs. Sending you a big virtual hug and high-five for helping me on my filmmaking journey. Youâre the man!! Keep up all the hard work. You are helping so many people like me. Iâm so grateful for your channel đđ»
Thanks so much! It's always very encouraging to hear that these videos are helpful. Thanks for taking the time.
Hey Walker, which did you end up liking more? HLG3 or Cine2?
Been trying to learn in depth color science for weeks now and this is finally something that was actually informational! Thank you so much!
Thank you so much sir and I love how you also provide time stamps. Youâre also very concise rather than waffling like most youtubers! Subbed
now that's a proper guide and comparison of the Picture Profiles. thanks it helped a lot
Wow, what a fantastic video! For a guy like me with very little video experience that was a really eye-opening experience. I didn't realise those picture profiles and log profiles worked that way. Thanks for the tremendous amount of effort you put into these videos.
You're very welcome! Thanks for the encouraging comment. Cheers! đđ
This has got to be one of THE BEST Sony picture profile explanation I've seen ANYWHERE. Thank you.
Wow. I've watched tons of videos on just this subject and this is by far the most detailed explanation. You even answered some other questions I had and simplified this whole process for me. Now it is time for me to practice. Coming from photography trying to get into video for the ideas that have been running through my head. Thank you so much.
Thank you Gerald - this was exactly what I was hopiung for - finaly I start to understand this log profiles. Looking forward your next one.
Thanks, Helmut. Cheers! đđ
You just gained a subscriber and a thumbs up. What an absolutely excellent video - so clear and so well demonstrated. I'm a new owner of an A6300 looking to find the most flexible settings for grading (and not really wanting to be forced into ISO800). This video was EXACTLY what I needed. Great delivery of quality information. Thanks and keep doing what you're doing!
Thank you very much! That's very kind. Happy to have a new subscriber too. đđ
I've been looking a long time for an informative and straightforward video about pprofile of Sony a7 and this definitely nailed it. It's not about selling a LUT but real info on the picture profiles, thanks a lot, this made me hit the subs button.
Thanks for this. Appreciate it. Happy to have a new sub too! Cheers!
Thank you so much for those in depth review... you just confirmed what I was always guessing but not really knowing.
Been using HLG3 with BT2020 almost as soon as I've had the camera and heard about it. Really pleased with it. I feel it gives me everything I want to have in a camera, with good ISO capabilities, and "workable" file size (compared to RAW).
Dude your attention to detail, i take my hat off to thee!
Extremely informative. I like that you explained the facts when it comes to contrast and dynamic range, yet made it clear that color is subjective and each user may have a difference preference.
it doesn't matter what video I watch from you, all of them are very in depth with information and extremely helpful tips. Thanks for making this kind of content
Your way to explain thing and test things is amazing! So simple and easy to follow along. You are also the kindest person when you try to say that people have the wrong ideas of something đ đ well done! đđ
Thank you so much! That's a very nice and encouraging comment. Cheers! đđđ
Underappreciated channel, for sure.
I have to watch this several times since it's really a lot of information. But it's absolutely worth doing so. Thank you for sharing your knowledge!
Thank you Gerald Iâve become such a great videographer with your help. I appreciate how intricate and In depth you go in to explain concepts I wouldnât even think about I needed to know about
I've been waiting for a good picture profile video! Thank goodness for Gerald.
Great explanation, I've been using HLG2 and adjusting all the "finer controls" based off another peoples recommendations. Time to test out HLG3. Keep sharing the knowledge! You are awesome!
Dude, that was a great video and helped explain some things I was unclear on regarding picture profiles that I couldn't find elsewhere. Thanks!
this was very helpful. I just got into videography over the last year and finally took the plunge of not using the standard profile any more. This was a big help.
Thank you for this great video. Great infođ
All my videos have been in HLG3 (a7iii), this was an awesome video to keep learning from! Thank you for taking the time to research it~ !!
You're very welcome! Thanks for the comment and for sharing your experience. Cheers! đđ
Hot damn! This is precisely the video I needed from you, as I have recently purchased a Sony a7iii and I'm slowly working through the logistics of programming the thing for different shooting situations. Thanks so much!
Awesome! Happy to help. Thanks for the comment. đđ
After watching 10 different video's on picture profiles I was lost. You are my hero! Really clear explination, thx a lot!
You are amazing Gerald. This was exactly what I had requested. Thanks!
Oh, any tips for grading/converting HLG3 with BT2020 in DaVinci Resolve? Thanks!
I'm glad it was what you were hoping for! Thanks for letting me know. đđ
Great video Gerald! HLG3 is my favorite PP on my A7 III. You just scientifically confirmed it for me! Thanks!
Happy to do so! Great choice! đ
Been shooting HLG3 on the A7iii and have been digging it, shot a lot in SLOG2 on the A7riii, you can get excellent results with it but it requires work-proper balancing, grading, and LUT process (if any). I did Riddle's Academy online course and certainly what you are saying here makes sense to me, in terms of how you interpret the graphs. Excellent work.
Awesome video. I've watched and cataloged quite a few others and none of them went into this much detail and comparisons, which I appreciate a lot! Thanks!!!
Cheers, Vincent! Appreciate that. Thanks.
Great video! Very valuable info!
Awesome, you're the man. I've been using a slightly customized Cine4 profile for a couple of years. I still make tons of mistakes and ruin shots because I rush to set things up. If I upgrade to a newer sony body in the future I'll have to try HLG.
That's the hard part sometimes. Slowing down and having a think. Check things over. Try and get as much right as you can before pressing record. We all get it wrong sometimes. Checklists can help. Thanks for the comment & keep at it. đ
Cine4 can literally burn the skin tones if it's not perfectly exposed, the curve in the middle range doesn't forgive mistakes.
If you encounter this problems so often it's better to use cine2.
Hands down , best Sony picture profile video on CZcams, this and the follow up are gold to anyone trying to really understand theyâre Sony camera. Canât believe this is only 7k views. Actually watching your videos I can even practice my English trying to follow your very fast but excellent pronunciation hehehe.
thanks for this in depth video with actual details comparing them all. very much appreciated
this has become my fav tech channel ..thank you for sharing your expertise
That's great to hear! I'm flattered. Thanks for the comment. đđ
Great information. Very sober look at the options. This is great. THX!
Thanks a lot! đđ
Best best BEST video out there on a very confusing and widely debated subject. This is backed up by a really fair test scene which gives you undebatable examples. I also love your clear interpretation of the results. Thanks so much for doing the difficult research on this!
Thank you so much, Gerald! This is so needed!
By our tests in real world scenarios, shooting on a7III, we found that HLG 3 has slightly wider dynamic range, namely better gradations in the shadows than HLG 2 but is actually more noisy in other hand. HLG 1 has even lower noise than the others but less dynamic range.
So, according to our footages in the last weeks, it seems that thereâs always a trade off as each gamma curve has his own balance between dynamic range and noise reduction. It really depends on the situation. We agree that HLG and HLG 3 have similar dynamic range, we cannot see any difference.
After months shooting with several gamma like S-Log 2 with S-Gamut color mode or CINE 2 with Cinema color we use now HLG 2 with BT.2020 most of the time as we found that it is the best PP for our works, performing good dynamic range and noise reduction.
However, in some situations we can use another one if needed, like in extreme low light conditions weâll use a more contrasty PP with customized black levels and narrower black gamma exposing to mid tones.
Greetings from Lisbon
Thanks for sharing your findings and preferred profile. Cheers!
Another well researched and presented video!
Iâve had Colourists match SLog-3 footage from the FS7ii and A7iii quite well but for darker (or underexposed) scenes, the A7iii footage does fall apart. Iâm looking forward to shooting with the HLG profile and seeing how that stacks up. Judging by your findings it seems like the best option for this 8-bit codec.
Also, greetings from Toronto, fellow Canadian!
Thanks for the kind words! Nice to get comments from fellow Ontarians.
well of course the fs7ii is going to do better. it can shoot 12 big linear raw + 600 Mbps!! the sony only shoots 8 bit at a maximum of 100 Mbps.
Great stuff, very useful, straight to the point and no irrelevant BS. Thanks.
Awesome info, man! I've been struggling to decide which profiles I want to build a look off of. Between your new video on the S-log bug and this one, you may have saved me a bunch of trouble because I had been leaning that way.
I don't even have a sony camera and I had a good time.
me watching this two weeks into having a camera: @_____@
Today I bought my first camera, a Sony a6400 and you helped me a lot to understand the color profiles. The next will be to practice and learn, thank you again for sharing all this knowledge, I am a fan of your channel.
Thank you so much for making these videos! They are really helpful, and makes things a lot easier for me when it comes to choosing the right profile for my use.
I'm really glad they're helpful! Thanks for saying so.
I would highly appreciate if you could make a quick video on how to convert the BT2020 to 709 without losing much of the brilliant colors the BT2020 offers. If that's impossible, what's the point of shooting with it as only a handful in the world own a BT2020 monitor.
Kindly help us. I'm sure I'm not alone with this request
You are not lol
V2K (Tamil) Photography agreed
ĐŃĐžĐČĐ”Ń. ĐœĐ” ĐŸĐ±ŃĐ·Đ°ŃДлŃĐœĐŸ ĐžĐŒĐ”ŃŃ ĐŒĐŸĐœĐžŃĐŸŃ bt.2020, глаĐČĐœĐŸĐ” ĐžŃĐżĐŸĐ»ŃĐ·ĐŸĐČĐ°ŃŃ ĐżŃĐ°ĐČОлŃĐœŃĐč lut ŃĐ°ĐčĐ» ĐżŃĐž ĐșĐŸĐœĐČĐ”ŃŃĐ°ŃОО ĐČ rec.709, Ń ĐŽĐŸĐ»ĐłĐŸ ŃĐ”ŃŃĐžŃĐŸĐČĐ°Đ» ĐșĐ°ĐŒĐ”ŃŃ Ń ŃĐ°Đ·ĐœŃĐŒĐž lut ŃĐ°ĐčĐ»Đ°ĐŒĐž, ĐżĐŸĐșĐ° ĐœĐ” ĐœĐ°ŃĐșĐœŃĐ»ŃŃ ĐœĐ° Leeming LUT One Sony, ĐŸĐœ ĐżŃĐŸŃŃĐŸ ОЎДалŃĐœĐŸ ĐșĐŸĐœĐČĐ”ŃŃĐžŃŃĐ”Ń! ĐœĐ” ĐżĐŸĐ¶Đ°Đ»Đ”ĐčŃĐ” 15 Đ”ĐČŃĐŸ Đž ĐșŃпОŃĐ” ĐŽĐ°ĐœĐœŃĐč lut ŃĐ°ĐčĐ» Đž бŃĐŽĐ”Ń ĐČĐ°ĐŒ ŃŃĐ°ŃŃŃĐ”)))
Upvoted!
Itâs not doable. Itâs like asking if there was a way you could make a 1080p monitor somehow display 4K resolution. Impossible. Thereâs no reason to shoot in HLG unless youâre delivering your project in HDR.
Brandon âmasterâ Li sent me, this must be good! Hi btw đ€
Oh, that's awesome! Love his videos. Did he mention me somewhere? I must have missed it.
@@geraldundone If you go to his profile and COMMUNITY, he did a post where he rekommed this video :)
Yep, came here via Brandonâs post as well. Great video. Thanks for the comprehensive information.
The two of the best channels on CZcams
I understood about 10% and still quadrupled my knowledge. Insanely solid content, my man.
This really was the best explanation I have seen regarding Sony and their pictures profiles. THANK YOU so much!!
Gerald, excellent video as always! I'm gonna have to create 70k CZcams accounts and sub to try and really show how valuable your content is for creators, at least for the nerdy kind like me haha Cheers!
Haha. Thanks, Gerardo. Your dedication means a lot! đđ
Great video once again! Quick question... with reducing the level to -7, how much sharpening would you suggest to add back in post? example: 2.5 sharpening in FCPX is the default. Thanks!
did you find the answer to your question?
Holy crap. As a Bournemouth film school alumni specialising in cinematography, as part of my 18 year career in cinema industry + freelance video production, I can vouch for this guy genuinely knowing his shit and using robust methods to demonstrate opinions. Thank you!
the BEST video tutorial so far on different Picture Profiles. Keep it up bro.
Thanks for this vid. especially those people who are beginners just like me on this thing.
Thanks! I'm happy it was helpful.
I'm not a Sony shooter but what a MOST insightful comparison video (Watched the whole thing)
If I used sony I would go with HGL3 based solely on your visual proof
Thanks so much for all you do Gerald
Best Regards, Rick
Thanks, Rick! I'm glad you enjoyed it despite it being on a different system. I might do the same thing for other systems if people find it useful. đ
got the Leeming LUTs because of this video or the HLG video and all I can say is ...WOW so nice and subtle corrections for color accuracy.
Yeah, he does a great job. Glad you're happy with them.
Man, thank you so much for making this video! After many subjective, confusing or downright silly talk on the matter of PP, here is finally a technically backed and clear explanation.
you made me think highly of these profiles. Great inputs Gerald. Thanks! this helps a lot.
Don't the cinegammas, with the exception of cine2, shoot past 100 IRE?
Dude this is awesome! Can you do GH5 profiles dynamic range & color?
I probably should! đ
@@geraldundone As another G5 owner, yes please!
@@geraldundone Yes please :)
Yess please!
Maybe pp vs vlog and 8 bit vs 10 bit
Good practical info as always Gerald.One thing you glossed over is SLOG is set at ISO800 because that is the native ISO of the sensor. So paradoxically if you expose correctly with SLOG (1 to 2 stops over) you can actually get less noise than at ISO 200. Another example is the native ISO of the FS700 is actually 2500. When you set the camera to its native ISO youâre not actually adding any gain - youâre just rating the speed of the sensor higher. Alister Chapman has an excellent explanation in one of his blogs or videos.
Love your videos man! Always straight to the point and I really dig the more unbiased comparison!
Thanks, Chris! Appreciate it. đđ
This was the most unexpected but perfectly timed video! I recently switched to the Sony A7III and, though I used to know a lot about them, it was time to re-check my knowledge about the Sony picture profiles. Thank you very much!
Awesome! I'm glad to hear that. Thanks for saying so. đđ
Gerald, as is always the case with your videos, my brain just got bigger. Have you, by chance, done similar testing for your GH5?
Thanks, John! Not yet, but it seems like there might be a demand for it. So, I might just have to do that. đđ
Seconded
Yess
Thank you. All the options were confusing after watching a bunch of videos until I founds your one.
Thank you, thank you, and thank you! Your videos are highly informative, to the point and presented with style. You have helped me soooo much. Really appreciate it.
You're very welcome! Thanks for the comment and kind words!
I agree with everything except the BT2020 suggestion. Unless you're really great at coloring, you're asking yourself to put a lot of time into fixing reds/oranges as well as changing a green tint. If you shoot in 709 within HLG3, you end up with a great starting point that grades easily and accurately.
Well I shoot HLG3 BT.2020 and this is my workflow. I reinterpret my footage as Rec.709 in Premiere Pro, then I apply the Leeming LUT on it, automatically fixes all the messy, shifted skintones, oranges etc... Instantly accurate colors.
â@@solodagci Color is such a complicated topic. Wonder if it has to be this way?
I just have a quick question: at 12:20 you say itâs pretty easy to comform BT.2020 to rec709, in what cases would you need to do this, and how would you go about doing it? Thank you so much for making this video, this is incredibly useful and must have taken you ages to do all this!
just use da vinci resolve :) it has a great color management :)
Usually when you import the footage and plan to export to web or any regular screen you'd want to put it to 709. Premiere does this almost automatically, although having a LUT designed to keep all the colours in spec does help with that. In FCP there is a dialog box where you choose the input of 2020 and the output of 709 and then it lets you see the colour space for what it is on your display. I think Resolve has something similar, but I haven't used it in a long time.
In Resolve you can use the FX Color Space transformation tool (I just put it as a Pre-clip node on my groups) and individually select gamma and color space input and output.
almost all current TV's can show the wider color space of HLG + BT2020 and CZcams is doing the same
That is the last video I need to watch on picture profiles!! Thank you. Concise and informative and I now finally know WTF to concentrate on. Cheers
Awesome! I'm glad it was helpful. đđ
Boom! Great lesson and something I was truly in need of!
You could start with "I am a camera, with it's shutter open..."
(Goodbye to Berlin!)
Dang, I was all excited and then realized that I donât have HLG on my a6500 haha. Cine2 it is
same a6300 here
same :(
That was fantastic Gerald. Best explanation of choices I have come across. I'm now a subscriber. Looking forward to more of your perspectives.
Thanks, Geoffrey! Appreciate your kind words and am always glad to have a new subscriber. Cheers!
What a great video! Thanks for doing this, it really cleared some things up for me!
Thank you! I'm glad to hear that. Cheers!
I haven't watched yet... I'm just going to comment and like already because of engagement and such. GREAT VIDEO(probably)
Thanks, Dunna! I didn't read this comment, but I'm going to assume it was supportive. (probably)
Ha. đđŻ
@@geraldundone đ€Łđ€Ł
@@geraldundone - I finished the video now! And I was right! And you were right to assume that I was/am supportive. But in the end I'm also not going to finis
Have you secretly installed a mic in mind?
Haha. đ
This is one of the best Videos of all CZcams! Thanks so much for sharing and take care
I appreciate the scope comparisons and overall tone. Although I still love to hear your explanation of the color modes.
You are always so helpful! Thank you for spending the time to explain things so well.
Another great video, no surprise, love this channel!
This is the best video on this topic Iâve ever seen! Thanks so much!
A really good channel for in depth information. Thanks for your work!
Great video,
I think this channel deserves much more subs
Thank you so much! Awesome video, all on point.
All rounder and complete video for picture profiles on sony camera... great man â€ïž
Got into video recently and I've been looking at a lot of you tubers. This channel is by far my favorite. Excellent in depth information & great presentation style. Now I always google video topics with "Undone" at the end of my search query. That way I just need to watch one video on a topic and understand it instead of hunting down a 100 videos with widely varying information.
Exactly what I was looking for. Thank you.
Superb video and nicely explained! Thanks for putting in efforts to get the best information possible for the users.
This is veery informal with a detailed explanation of things. Great job!
Thanks for that video!
I know it's older now, but it helped me so much to understand my a7iii better.
I just watched some of your other videos and this some some real quality content you deliver!
Greetings from Germany :)