South Africa: rugby's race problem
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- čas přidán 8. 10. 2019
- South Africa's national rugby squad has ‘‘quotas’’ to ensure more black players are selected. 25 years after the end of apartheid, can the controversial practice redress the race imbalance in the sport? And at what cost?
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It was a win that unified a divided country. We were united as a rainbow nation. In 1995, one year after the country’s first ever multi-racial elections South Africa hosted-and won-the Rugby World Cup.
When the final whistle went and I looked around the stadium all different creeds and colour of people, they were hugging each other. It adds impetus to our nation-building effort. But 25 years later South African rugby is still embroiled in the politics of race. Politics can never be separated from sport. I think we are more divided at this stage than we were then.
Almost 90% of South Africans are black or mixed-race yet they remain the minority in the Springboks, the national rugby team. In an attempt to get more black players into the top tier of the game South Africa’s government introduced quotas to force coaches to pick black players. But it’s a controversial strategy.
Chester Williams was one of the first black players to ever represent the Springboks. Definitely, quota means to me opportunity. Peter de Villiers was South Africa’s first black coach. I don’t think quotas is your solution. Both grew up in the black township of Paarl but they feel very differently about quotas. Historically rugby is supposed to be played only by white people. Because of apartheid only the white people are selected for the Springbok team. I always wanted to be a Springbok myself.
Chester Williams was the only black player in the famous Mandela 1995 World Cup winning side. He inspired millions of South Africans. All I wanted was that opportunity so I can prove to the world that black people can also play rugby. I represent not only myself but I represent my community, I represent black people in South Africa.
After retiring in 2000 Chester became a coach at the University of Western Cape. Being a so-called black or coloured player in South Africa
was challenging at times. I remember vividly they stopped me from going to have dinner because I was the only black guy in the team and at that time we were not allowed to dine with the white people. Securing a spot on the Springboks side wasn’t easy. You had to train twice as hard as the privileged guy because you have to prove every single time why you need to be in the team even though you’re scoring more tries than anyone else.
That’s why Chester believes that quotas are still needed to ensure black players get into the national sport. If you don’t have the quota system then people won’t change and players won’t come through the system. And in doing that we are seeing a lot of black kids getting opportunities to play for the Springboks.
Since the 1995 win the Springboks team has incrementally become more balanced. And the Springboks selected more black and mixed-race players
than ever before in 2018. But quotas not always popular. In a recent poll 82% of black South Africans said that players should be picked solely on merit. And the perception that so-called quota players don’t deserve to be selected is damaging. While I was playing I mean people would call me a quota player. It was almost like a smack in the face that you’re not good enough to play there but you’re selected only because of the colour of your skin. I can assure you we will carry 50m people in our hearts.
Rugby’s struggle to transform is seen by some as a metaphor for disillusionment among black people who gained political, but not economic, freedom after apartheid. I am still surprised because to see that people are still talking about quotas because it’s 25 years since unification you know and in sport we should have gone long past that. There was no repentance for apartheid. So those who tried to forgive, what did they forgive? Who did they forgive? So this conversation, for another 25 years, will still go on
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Some of you have noticed an error in this film. We incorrectly said that Chester Williams and Peter de Villiers both grew up "in the black township of Paarl". We have now changed this line to say they both grew up "in townships in Paarl". Thank you for flagging our mistake-a corrected version of the film is being uploaded.
You might also want to avoid using the term "black" to describe Coloured people. This use of the word "black" is foreign, with the exception of its use by Steve Biko (as a political category with the same meaning as "people of colour"), which is the context in which Williams refers to himself as black, which does not (as his own interview shows) remove his identity as Coloured. Coloured is also not just "mixed race", whatever many would say. It's a complex identity consisting of Malays, Khoesan and mixed race peoples, and there is a cultural continuity which is not shared by other ethnic groups. Many Coloured people find the use of the term "black" to be disrespectful, based on the context of violent ethnic tensions between black and coloured people, and the political domination of Coloured people by the black government. You need to tread lightly here, and try employing a South African writer to cover SA instead of picking whoever happens to be the most woke member of the office.
In addition, your appropriation of the term "economic freedom" as it is used in the South African context (as a synonym for Leninist wealth redistribution) is at odds with the common definition, in which economic freedom means the absence of state control of property.
The reference is still incorrect and the wording is not correct. Who does your research?
@@marhobane3040 don't say white either 🤣
That is why people who have no idea what they are talking about should never produce such a load of hogwash!
Just tell my folks what you want I AUTHORIZE IT AND DONT FORGET THE 364 CUT THEIR FINANCIAL INNS
The "black township of Paarl". Clearly The Economist does not know Paarl.
I don't think they know much about South Africa.
You got me curious and I checked the article in wiki: it says 70% is colored whatever that means and 17% white. - this seems to be quite different from the SA's average. So yes TE went into post-factual realm on this one.
@@hanskloss7726 coloured means what the rest of the world refers to as mix race. However its exclusive to white and black mix. Also if both your parents were coloured, you will be seen as coloured as well.
@@dewaldt8104Thanx for clarification. I thought these were Indians and possibly some other Asians .
TE still went post-factual tho. I wonder why but I guess this just fitted nicely into the narrative (whatever that was).
Odd how we in the West tried so hard to see people for what they look like and race or whatever you chose to call it is still so crucial. It certainly is not most important thing for me. It makes a difference how people look like however. We may pretend it does not of course. Maybe a podcast on this could be something TE could do.
@@hanskloss7726 well the thing majority of the world would be confused if the word coloured was used. Many see it as a racist term and also I just do not think you can discuss our full problems with racial identity in a 10 min video.
You should be selected based on your skills , everything else is pure racism and discrimination !!!!
@Lewis C. Let's imagine that you replace white with black for example. Don't you think that statement is racist?
Most black kids could never afford to play a sport. Most white kids can. Now who do you think is picked. The talented black kid without training or the white kid who has trained for 8 years? Is that not discrimination?
@@MrTohawk No. Being selected for a team requires requisite abilities. It does not matter how one gets them. You cannot exclude anyone on the pretext if he's privileged or not. If a black person and a white person have similar training / abilities, and one of them is excluded based on color, then that is discrimination. Privilege should not be confused with discrimination and racism.
@@MrTohawk I haven't had the funds to study what I wanted . I have always wanted to.be a pilot. Should I be given the job based on that fact?
@@ivanb1948 You should be given the chance to study what you want. And the funding to do so. Everyone should. And then you can select by skill if you want.
What about the South African soccer team? How diverse is that? 😂
Actually pretty representative of SA
@@playboicartiismydad4842 good one 🤣
@@mikesteyn27 In the 2019 Afcon squad of 23 players there were 4 white players 1 coloured one and 19 black.
Much more representative than the Springboks or Proteas
@@playboicartiismydad4842 it got awfully quiet all of a sudden
It is the most Diverse Team we have in South Africa.
+-80% Black, +-15 Coloured +-8white and +-2% Other. What are you talking about.
I love the how the economist refers to mixed raced as black
Honestly this video is kind of racist, lol.
Coloured and Indian people are seen as black! In this country it's only black and white. In this country when the cricket and rugby teams lose its quotas! Excluding the piss poor white players
Anybody been to paarl before?
@@ic3c0ld_w3bb2 yh
@@ic3c0ld_w3bb2 yeah it's really nice there
Who R here after "Springboks" Winning RWC2019
@WolraadWoltemade 1652 I bet you miss the apartheid times when things were 'better' and 'beneficial' for you hey. Good ole days hey mate?
Me
@@RedLorryYellowLorry_ Where are you from? Just imagine after the ANC destroyed SA we including the indigenous people will be moving to your country you will like that hey? Keep thinking like that were coming to your town soon.
2023:World Cup
De Villiers is not black... he is colored 🤨
Coloreds are black u dummy
Nope ..coloureds are a race on their own separate from the White, Black, Indian etc Race in SA
@@khayajubileemoyo6447 u are a dummy for saying that😊
Lionel Thornicroft the world views you as black. you’ll be hard pressed to find a government form in the first world that has a “mixed” / “colored” box to tick
Marcelo Hendrix no they don’t. Mixed race are often termed Métis. They are not black.
Interesting that one of the interviewees talks about unification, but talks exclusively of “us” and “them”.
Such is the hypocrisy of Identity Politics
Can you blame him? Look at the history of this country
@@vailimaconnoisseur6538 Yes one could, you're supposed to put racism aside and let merit take the wheel, this isn't rocket science.
@@ljroos6565 It seems you didnt comprehend what I'm saying. Try again
@Thomas Hoffman If you're ignorant about history then thats on you. I'm not a teacher dont ask me to educate you
Just play the best 15 that’s all the world asks of South African rugby
And that's what they're doing
First Name Last Name 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
FOMO FUD well done but not many country’s have to speak loud and broad just because the captains black. Only racist country’s do that 👍🏻
KENDALL_KNOWS_BEST! Of course..but the politicians in SA love racial devisiveness
Marlon Levin I love your wife but I don’t shout about it
But if you not in rugby you not good that's it don't make it about race
Loveeeee it sir
Basic, to the point, and 100% truth. We should let the good player rise to the top, not the x race players or whatever.
aaronison it’s the quality that matters
Yes, race should never come into the fray, but merit and merit only! To be the best you have to select the best irrespective of race. We have a wealth of players of colour who deserve their places in our provincial and national sides. I fully support them and as a South African I am proud of their achievements.
Cannot believe we still debate quotas. Merit is the only way forward
Jacques De la Harpe normally I would agree, but if more blacks see other blacks playing rugby, won’t that get more involved? Resulting in a bigger pool of players to pick from... resulting in batter talent? I’m not suggesting this method for rugby championship or World Cup squads.. but for friendlies and at club level, it may not be the worst idea? I don’t know, it may work with something as frivolous like sport. Certainly not in the business world.
@@garyodriscoll7988 that is genius. You get best of both worlds that way. You get inclusion without subtracting meritocracy.
I hear the main reason you see less blacks is because rugby is a rich man's sport over in SA.
jester sage Your comment is so misplaced by someone who does not live in SA.Not sure where you are getting your information but I would ignore this source in future.Rugby is played by the poorest communities in colored areas. Black culture in South Africa prefer to play soccer. That is what they like and rugby should not be forced down their throats. That is why you see so many colored players in the national and sevens side often from a poor background. Go read the story of where players like ex-bok Breyten Paulse came from
Gary O'Driscoll Your comment is naive and you contradict yourself. Professional rugby is a business. If you give preference to players based on color then you discourage great players who gets left behind just because they are the wrong color. Besides causing division it also force these players to rather play for a country where they will be judged by merit only. Therefore South Africa is the country with the most rugby players playing international rugby for other countries. Black people see other black people play rugby but 99% prefer to play soccer and that is fine. Politics should be out of sport. It creates division, low self esteem to players picked on their race and breeds mediocrity. Everyone should be free to play whatever sport they want and if the best 15 players happen all to be Eskimo’s then so be it.
@@jacquesdelaharpe804 thanks for the correction. I'm from nz where everyone poor or rich play rugby and I've heard everywhere else it's more posh people that play rugby.
Which is why I said why I said.
I don't think the guy was talking about professional rugby but more amateur rugby. Professional rugby definitely shouldn't be like that.
R.I.P. Chester Williams. A great player in anyone's books. Arohanui from NZ.
@@carels5158 he was still a great player and now that he has died he has paid for his sins. Some people say we shouldn't speak ill of the dead. It's not like he was Adolf Hitler.
Kwagga 21 - statements like yours tell the world SA has many generations yet to be born to awaken to true equity, equinimity and equality. Your attitude is an indictment on existing discrimination in SA. Rest In Peace Chester Williams. As for you Kwagga 21 ...Fuck off!.
@Jack Shit jy en James en Joost se poese hoor! Kwotas gaan nerens. Rassie beter die WB wen anders kan hy ook samet jou loop naai!
@@rockybilboa6136 take it slow with the tik. That stuff will burn your brains away Im told.
@@1Ma9iN8tive the world is busy awakening. Europe, US, Hungary etc are at long last looking past the lies. So I know in a generation or two the first world will come over to the realist side. Its really one of the most exciting times in the history of the world.
I thought de Villiers and Chester were coloured people, suddenly they are black.
Coloureds are very black... Sorry
@@Thegoatt84 It's okay. Let me educate you. Black people are black and coloured people are coloured.
by the broader political definition they are
The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race
--- Chief Justice John Roberts
Well first you gotta get the racists to get their heads out their arses. And quotas are the most efficient way of doing that. Name a more EFFICIENT method. I'm all ears.
So profound it sounds like shit
Sports2Hedz Is it not somewhat degrading and racist itself to select a player based on their skin color instead of merit? I hardly believe the Springbok coaching staff are racist, much less selecting white players over black players even if it would be a detriment to their performance. That’s preposterous. I don’t believe there needs to be any “solution”, especially race quotas. The Springboks are a quality team, but any of their players could easily be replaced by a better player that comes along and proves their skill. Such is the nature of profession sport. Race is a non-issue here.
@@giese2015 Hmmm....I disagree. Racism is multigenerational and subconscious. Even if it is not overt. I don't think there is overt racism in the club. I suppose there's still no racism in S African rugby? It has been totally rooted out of the system when the entire country still wallows in it? I guess you didn't watch the video? Do I think that judging on merit is better? Absolutely. But when you have deep rooted race divisions in a country more needs to be done. Are you complaining because the Springboks are so good right now they are one of the favorites to win the World Cup? Fact is...quotas are the most ECONOMICALLY EFFICIENT method of introducing equality. That is a big plus. There is no other method...unless you can name one..that will promote equality for so few tax dollars. Is it perfect? Heck no. But it will eventually/hopefully lead to better conditions for the impoverished black communities in S Africa. And a real parallel effort needs to be made in this regard as de Villiers said.
@@sports2hedz542 "Well first you gotta get the racists to get their heads out their arses"
We're gonna have to begin with you then, and all others attempting to implement more racist policies.
Kak man. As a black man I don't see a race problem.
You're not black
Lol, that awkward moment when South Africa WIN the world cup, so this video becomes irrelevant
Kaylee Simmers This video doesn’t have anything to do with the World Cup,and is still relevant
@@justagirlthathateslgbtq4 stupid statement
@@vegnes79 Perfectly reasonable statement, calling something stupid doesn't change anything, try to argue merit
They won their First World Cup in Their own country and that unity is what influence more black men to play rugby but it didn't fix the problem. It is the same now, winning isn't gonna fix the problem it might encourage change, such as removing the quota and creating an alternative for blacks and colored to have a higher chance of showing and getting selected for their potential
No remember ot has been almost 20 years of woutas that is from shcool so you loose alot of players over many years , fact - there is more than 300 south africans playing rugby in large leagies over seas
These exact racial quotas have weakened a once potent South African cricket team as well.
yeah exactly... The result of this is seen so far in rugby alone is that over 300 white south africans play pro rugby outside of SA. Cricket is going the same way.
@@pillarsofstrength9568 Very True, you see more and more South African origin players playing for England, Australia, New Zealand etc
You know it's the rugby world cup when they start showing this nonsense
Well what would you rather see?
@@Shola-tg6lv I would like to see fair play across the board. Move forward and leave the past what it is, the past.
@@christoels8110 Oh I agree with you. In general I think they should try to make rugby a bigger sport in townships if they want more black people in the team. The way they're doing it now just means we bring players onto the national team that don't really deserve it.
@@Shola-tg6lv Absolutely spot on!! Nothing beats a happy child and sport is an equalizer.
In that case I'll be waiting for quotas in every single Olympic discipline. Seems like there is a lack of balance. I want an equal amount of every race proportional to the population in the given country. Let's see how that works out.
South Africa's rowing team has been dropped from the South African Olympic roster because there are no Blacks. Yet one of our rowers has the 3rd best time so far in the world and have a realistic chance to win a medal. The ANC doesn't care about performance, they only care about demographics now that is Marxism for you. The Springboks are doing great inspite of the quota system. But politics should never interfere with sport.
This shows the ridiculousness of it all. Blacks are always complaining when it doesn’t suit them. But what about how blacks making up only 15% of the population, but 99% of the NBA contracts making millions a year? Oh so here they don’t want to share the money to Asians and Jews I’m guessing? Why can’t Asians and Jews get into the NBA through affirmative action and get multimillion dollar contracts too despite being under qualified?
Rest In Peace, Chester Williams.
Sadly, the moment one describes another demographic group as 'they', it's discrimination in itself.
Loooong way to go.
RUBBISH
Arthur Mabaleka
There will always be discrimination....... get used to it!
The only people who don't want discrimination are the inferior ones....... there I discriminated!🤣
There are sound reasons for 'dsicriminating' between ethnicities. To abandon 'discrimination' would be to abandon the ability to think.
I would like to see SA stop talking about race for 80 minutes.
This isn't south Africa, this is the bloody poms bringing it up,
Infact the boks have pretty much the whole country behind them. Videos like this are uncalled for
@@FirstNameLastName-gh2np Ok, I know this is irrelevant, but we have the same username 😹😹
Ok bye
"black township of Paarl" There goes your opinion.
Chester Williams died on September 6th 2019. We've uploaded a longer version of the interview we did with him for this film. You can watch it here: econ.st/2Vu8X7b
Dear Economist, please get your facts straight. Paarl is a normal town, not a township. It is home to people of all races.
Can you imagine how big rugby would be if it didn't have the history of classism or racism
its 2019 now i think the number of black and white players in the SA league is equal. skill must be the determining factor not race.
This is coming from a young south African, I don't care about colour of skin, I care about the talent. One of my favourite springboks is Beast, a Zimbabwean-South African citizen. It's what's inside what matters and not the colour of one's skin. We keep saying these things but when are we going to implement it. Apartheid is gone. We are more free than what we were 25 years ago. Politics shouldn't repeat past political mistakes. Try something new
Yet your friends are neigbours still utter the K-word and don't like black people living close to them or joining their sports team. Apartheid is still alive. Open your eyes!
@@castormicah5232 that's their choice and their consequence that they must suffer. I live with a different mindset and I'm not ashamed of it. You can grow out of that mindset if you truly wish to.
@@sonjamissblank2222 Yes, you and I are! But we are the minority. How many of your friends and neigbours, relatives would be comfortable living next to them!
@@sonjamissblank2222 Im glad race isnt important to you but millions of South Africans seeing man like them who came from the townships lead the historically Afrikaner dominated springboks lifting the world cup trophy is a big deal
@@playboicartiismydad4842 I respect siya a lot for leading them. But look at the team, they are more focused on God. Etzebeth kissed mbonambi's forehead. Everytime mapimpi and Kolbe scored etzebeth and Snyman would lift them up in victory. I don't see racism in the team. I see politicians being racist. I see sports being a political propaganda. I play girls cricket and most of my team like myself come from poor communities and most of my team is black. And I love them to bits and I've been like an older sister to the new group of girls who are there. So I know how the springboks feel. And I'm sorry I'm trying to see the good in everyone. I'd rather fight for a non-racism, non-hate, non-gender based violence country. And I know how everyone feels with Siya Kolisi, he is a good man and really peaceful. And an wonderful leader for the springboks.
RIP Chester Williams. He was an absolute legend
shame he didn't get to see Boks win
What a great and respected Springbok!!
Im in the Twilight Zone. This is completely opposite of the US
"There was no repentance for Apatheid.... So those who were told to forgive, what must they forgive? Who must the forgive? So this conversation will go on for another 25 years"
@英文科Charles Engelbrecht I don't get why whiteness does not think we can have a dialectic conversation. Somehow our ability to pick up on a injust past and a injust transition into democracy, leaving whiteness with racial and social economic power, must mean that we then support ANC corruption. Why cant we have a conversation about the one without being told we someone inherently support the ANC being corrupt. I'm clearly quoting a ex rugby coach talking about the trauma of the past being dealt with badly and how it continues to affect the sate of equity in sport. Talk to that point.
P Divvy was a kak coach. He inherited a great side from Jake White and that's all.
Who told you that bullshit? He coached those players at Junior Boks, the same players couldn't beat All blacks in NZ. Jake White was n kak coach wat WB gewen met die hulp van Eddie Jones.
@@rockybilboa6136 LOL!!! Come on buddy, everybody knows that the senior Bok players coached that team and P-Divvy was only there as a political appointee.
@@mjribes funny how those players couldn't beat the All Blacks in New Zealand. According to you whites every non-white is a political position. Fuck off
@@rockybilboa6136 My man...go fucking look at the Springbok team that won the 2007 world cup, then go look how many of those same players (some old bones) he kept recycling and kept using hoping for a win....he stated he had a big list of black players he would utilize if appointed, what did he do in reality, stuck with what worked and what was familiar, iow what would help his win loose ratio stay in the green so he does not look as out of place as he really was....he was a politically motivated appointment and not the best candidate by a long shot.
@@rockybilboa6136 Kak coaches don't win world cups, get someone to explain that to you since you cant grasp the obvious...as for your Eddie comment, unless you actually were in that 2007 team and can verify the shit you speak, it is just what it is ....your opinion and nothing but speculation...
Rest In Peace Chester Williams :(((
Nobody: ....
CZcams Comments: "Civilized discourse about a complex topic."
Well they just won the World Cup so i guess they're doing fine
Today i saw another side of Chester. A lot of his comments are just for attention to blacks. Disappointing. Snorre always talk nonsense so i expected his lies.
Pierre Fourie funny how even after apartheid you guys are still discriminatory as fuck
Cause the videos about racism you cretin
'No repentance.' Very true and important statement, in explaining the continuing poor state of race relations in SA.
Peter de Villiers and Chester Williams are coloured not black
@PoochMount18 So, according to you, are the 1.2 million Indian people living in South Africa also black?
@@---675 "Non-white" is a highly offensive term in South Africa.
@@---675 Like in the Apartheid days? When anyone "non-white" had fewer rights? In South Africa we do not divide the population into white and non-white anymore.
@@---675 Which is factually wrong in so far as the term is used in South Africa. Indian isn't black. Coloured isn't black. Asian isn't black.
Rip chester Williams, he died from a heart attack
Chester tried hard to help others less fortunate in life to achieve their dreams. He is a hero in my book. R.I.P great one.
quotas are wrong. Talent comes first regardless of colour
This is ridiculous. A job, a sport, it’s based on merit and skill not on government intervention to issue quota’s.
Mapimpi never entered the system like Kolisi or Am. His story is one that i really respect. Not taking anything from Kolisi or Am but they went to very good school's once they were scouted, Mapimpi didn't.
Quota was necessary to “rush” change, I believe equality would have happened over time, but would have taken longer in rugby. Professional rugby in SA suffered during that period however we are now reaping the benefits of it as “black talent” is now pouring out. There’s now so many world class black players that they now inspire the next generation doing more than quotas ever could. So personally I think that quota is now just a political word as there is an abundance of black world class players now for any coach to select the best team based on skill and ability.
Errol Thobaios played for Springboks in 80's already because he was good ,Chester Williams did not score most tries as he claims check your facts
This video is more irrelevant than ever. South Africa just won the 2019 RWC with out first ever black captain. There is no race problem in rugby, nor should race be a problem
Very misleading intro and tone. The situation, as you showed yourself, has improved, going from a single black player in 1994 to 40% of the team. You also never quoted actual figures which would have actually enlightened the situation, you just spliced together two interviews. Nice graphics, Terrible journalism. People should listen to podcasts like Planet Money and 99% Invisible if they want stories like this but accurately portrayed.
Mick Mickymick what they said that tho?
Y’all really try to bring race into everything good lord.
You forgot to mention Errol Tobias,he played 1st 5 on the 1981 NZ tour.
It's safe to say after we lost to you lads in the World Cup final, that finally Saffers have the perfect blend of non white and white players. Great choice for captain as well, the guy is a beast.
Epic Fail by the Economist. Misrepresenting racial groups in SA.
RIP Chester Williams ❤
Chester Williams interviewed, died on 6 September 2019, after having a heart attack. Rest in peace.
Those quotas have made South Africa world cup Champions! 3x maybe 4x next month after rugby 23 final. It has worked 4 rugby. Now we need this in Soccer! Look at Bafana 96. Tovey, Sikhosana, Williams, Tinkler, Khumalo, Fish. What did they do? They won Africa Cup of Nations. Why are they not in soccer?
Why does the colour of your skin earn you a place in a team. Shouldnt the best players be chosen ? The kwota system is a joke !
Rip Chester ❤️
I am south african and no one is talking about a all white team vs a all black team.
i have an extreme solution.
let the coach choose the players he wants.
Nobody complains about the USA basketball national team being majority black when they are an ethnic minority, so what is the actual intention behind this "report"?
I personally look forward to the day when we can look at our team and know, everybody that got there is the best of the best. I also look forward to the day that we can look at the team and know that those (everybody that plays rugby) who did not make the team had a fair chance in life to get there. I honestly believe that such a team would never perfectly reflect the race ratios of the country, but the idea is that we get to a point where we can trust the system - and stop playing mind games over race. In order to get to this point, we need to acknowledge that outcomes based 'transformation' like quotas is gaurenteed to fail. It destroys trust, and is 100% in conflict with the very essence/point of sport. Merit is not negotiable. We should also acknowledge that many people simply did not reach their full potential due to fkcuped issues in this country like grotesque poverty, and thus could not compete based on merit. The solution lies in investing heavely and early in those who do not have the resources, especially those with talent. The oppertunities to compete should be as equal as possible,(iow, everyone should be allowed the same oppertunities to be seen/exposed). The only criteria for selection should be merit at this point. It would also make sense to take steps to prevent selectors themselves from being (intentionally/unintentionally) prejudicial due to race.
You had best of the best, and they won the WC title in 2019
Is this from the 80s? In 2019 half the team is black. The captains black. And he is a very good and well respected player.
Yeah quota system in action
Pieter de villiers, the worst thing ever to happen to the springboks
Second worst thing. Lol pieter doesn't hold a candle against allister coetzee!! But yeah the whole concept of the video became irrelevant as soon as they mentioned Pieter de Villiers because he clearly didn't know what he was doing so he clearly has no say in the manner!
South Africa as a rugby super power will come to an end very soon anyway.
What we are seeing now are the last glory days of Springbok rugby before it will come crashing down like everything else South Africa was once great at. We will go from a tier 1 rugby nation to a tier 2 just like we went from a 1st world country to a 3rd within two decades of black rule.
The country is on the verge of economic collapse and cival war. Its not a matter of IF, it's a matter of when. And if that won't destroy Springbok rugby, politics definitely will. The real agenda is to exclude more and more white players until the team is all black like our useless football team or our government. This happens in all sectors of South Africa, not just in sport. The same white people who were fighting the apartheid government and ended it through the referendum to give everyone equal rights are now being suppressed.
The whole reason SA is becoming the next Venezuela or Zimbabwe is because skillful and compitent people who truly have the knowledge and ability to move the country forward are being excluded due to racist policies like BEE (Black Economic Empowerment)
Every aspect of being white in SA is under attack. Our language, schools, universities, culture, believes, history etc.
White people in SA are being excluded from both the private and especially the public sector due to their skin color. This is one of the reasons everything is falling apart in this country because people are being chosen for skin color instead of merit. Meanwhile politicians are calling for the slaughtering of all white people in the country and the seizing of their property and assets, while the biased media still goes on about white privilege being a real thing and whites being racists. For our international friends who don't believe what's going on or who say im over reacting, just come to SA for a few months and experience the hate for yourself before you judge so easily.
Apartheid in South Africa never ended... the roles just got reversed or swopped around. Where is the outcry and sanctions from the international community now?
Are you kidding me? Dude. That's a pile of rubbish. All that's happening is that black people (and other non white communities) are levelling the plain fields. And you know what they say, equality feels like oppression when you're used to privelledge. BEE is not racist, it's fixing the horrible legacies that things like colonisation and apartheid did to the black community, do u really think the black community would just heal from that over night after decades and decades of oppression? Inequality is still a huge problem in this country. You wanna talk to me about how your language is being under attack when MOST universities still use Afrikaans in a country that's less than 20% Afrikaans? You're so ignorant and your judgement is clouded by your racist views. It's sad to watch
Granted, things are not always great in our country and we still have a long way to go, but only focusing on the bad stuff will make you see only the bad stuff. I love South Africa. I know it's sht too. And I think that only makes it better. In spite of all the things happening, people still choose to stay. To go on with their lives. To build bridges.
People are people and you do not get to choose which one you're born as. And either way, everybody has their problems to deal with.
@@noziphotshabalala5018 as for being ignorant I think you should look in the mirror before accusing others. If a person isn't competent or have the knowledge no matter what the colour you don't put him/her in that senior postion. You train that person first! You need to see Countries after independence progressed eg South Korea etc as compared to Zimbabwe - you have audacity to mention BEE etc - you just NEVER learn from the past but certainly know how to repeat it & destroy a country. Put together the amount of money the country has lost through corruption, which runs into trilions of Rand, you could built a house for every poor petson irrespective of colour or race. So start dealing with FACTS not emotional claptrap!
@@paulkruger1945 never said any incompetent person should be given a job they cannot handle. Go read my responses and try again
@@noziphotshabalala5018 Are U kidding me? That's a pile of rubbish. Well actually to an extent I agree with you, however, South Africa will soon come to be a slum. I mean it already is, have you seen how the 'coloureds' changed Sunnyside in Pretoria. That was once a great place, and named so, however, two decades and poof, you don't drive through there. The problem with SA is that the Black Rule has ruined the country, and the Blacks resent the whites, because the whites are by-and-large degrading. Now the new generation is better, however, the country's state is poor. I reckon we should get rid of land expropriation, because SA was founded on its farms, and that's the way it should be. Wonder why we're getting poorer? Because we have to buy international food because no one in SA wants to own a bloody farm because, its A. too dangerous, and B. if the government has a moody day it might just take it away. Another thing we could implement is a white president, now see that sounds racist but I reckon we give it a shot. We've had corrupt black over corrupt black over corrupt black for the past 15 years, slot a white guy in and let's see what happens. Maybe he'll be just as corrupt, but what do we have to loose? more water? there already is none. I reckon we also need to slot in other methods of water collection rather than relying on our dams. Same thing with our roads, stop bloody building more of them when we have ones that do the job, focus instead on other more important matters. Another thing, leave Stellenbosch and universities alike alone. There's no reason to change them, it's an Afrikaans Universiteit, and proudly that, just let it be. There's other universities to go to if you don't know your way around afrikaans. It's a heritage thing. And as well as that, stop making everything race. I can't even smile at a coloured on the street without them looking disgusted, I look at a white guy and they smile back. Every issue is not a race issue, don't try to make it one. and stop changing the damn street names to something black, I can't even drive in the cape because I can't use the old street names I used to, to navigate me
i felt it when he said we forgave people who did not ask for forgiveness
Welcome to reality.
Or who needed it
How ironic probably for some that Cheslin Kolbe is currently the best player in South Africa by some distance, also recently won the French top 14 in Europe (I think he’ll be in the top 5 nominees in 2019 for world player) and Bryan Habana the last South African to be named world player and that was back in 2007, and they are both Coloureds
Trevor noah already made a joke about this
Most white boys, and especially afrikaner boys start playing rugby when they are 5, yes, 5. They start full contact in grade 2. They live for the sport and parents go out of their way to support their children. Look at any school rugby match and you will notice the support. White boys do not generally play soccer, especially afrikaans boys. So the sport is white because of discrimination according to you? It is white because the sport is played by mostly white boys and they play it very well. I have been with my own son when he was told that he could not be included in a team, because he is white. Lesser skilled and talented players now get places purely based on color.
Go to New Zealand if you feel this way.
@@sheehanramdeyal3702 Not once did he mention any "feeling". He stated his experience here, and this is your response?
We will keep losing our best men to NZ because of this.
3rd November 2019 South Africa did it and a black man held the cup. Respect from NZ
I wonder how much of this is caused by some black south Africans not having the money for loads of healthy high protein food (to get and stay big) and good health care. If you don't have those things its hard to play rugby in a rigorous way, especially when you consider some of the info in the Economist's "Rugby World Cup: why size matters" piece.
Fiji manages to do it without big money and health care at the grassroots but they are really, really special.
They tried this crap in Zimbabwe, cricket & rugby, to be honest good players should be picked period
French national football team is mostly blacks. And the French people are fine with that. Now why is South African government so racist towards a white majority team. Its like the White House demanding NBA to be minimal blacks.
You're so fucking stupid
Why would we let white people represent africa
I love how white people have been using their privilege for so many years and the moment the democratic systems puts black people upfront all of a sudden we must think about equality and its unfair. This shows how fucked up white people are. Please leave the country
@Thomas vanDyke look, the govt should not favor any race or tribe. If it does, then it becomes racist. Simple. Now SA, in its effort to erase all practices of racism, is doing the exact thing it is set to be against. The govt is super racist and it doesnt know what to do about the starving population.
@@melblose5244 Because Africa is not just black. Its also Arab, Indian and white.
Pieter de Villiers is South Africa’s worst coach
100% agree but for me the worst of the worst was Heyneke Meyer.
Statistically, that's incorrect. He had a 62% win ratio. And an impressive 53% win ratio against the All Blacks.
@@pc8679 That was a golden generation built by Jake White and in reality coached by Dick Muir and Gary Gold. Read the Beast's autobiography, PdV was a walking disaster and the players ignored his coaching completely. The winning percentage and stats reflect the team as a whole and not him individually, SA won despite PdV.
Cricket can make bigger impact but just need to win
quotas are messing up SA rugby
Not really bud😂😂😂😂
One of the worst coaches we have ever had.
Buddy do you know he have a better record then H.MEYER
And a born racist... Is Mr de Villiers.
Interviewing
Peter de Villiers about race is just a huge joke.
Lol
P-Divvy is South African rugby's biggest joke. He couldn't even keep down a job coaching Zimbabwe.
Rip Chester Williams, I have massive respect for you as a player but even more so as a person.
We have lots of black players in the Boks team now, none of which are quotas. The only person involved with the Boks that could be said to be a quota might be the backline coach, who didn't have much experience with any top teams. I'm sure the rugby team is far more representative than say the Waterpolo team
Lol then you don't understand Quotas lol
@@xoladinhoaltice9122 explain it to me then
By definition they are quotas, however you right in saying they are not picked because they are black but because they are the best in the country.
Only people that needs quota systems are those that aren’t good enough and never will be
Chester Williams : I believe in the quota system, we need it for opportunities.
Also Chester Williams : I was called a quota player, it was Challenging times.
HOW does this make any sense?
Where's your video on the soccer race problem?
Honestly I don’t think many if any of the current springboks are quota players and they just proved that by winning the World Cup.
Quotas are already ruining the Proteas
Skill over Race, any day of the week, we have the talent.
You can say the same about soccer. There are so many good non black players playing soccer but Bafana Bafana is mostly black, just saying🤷
who are those good white players that are not playing soccer in SA?
I think "quotas" played a big role in enforcing transformation in SA rugby. There was a time when the rugby community would not consider giving black/mixed/Indian players a chance, Quotas is the reason why rugby players can now be selected on merits,it has allowed coaches to see potential in all skin shades. Sports should never be about race, actually, nothing should be just about race. Some people compare the history of SA rugby to that of SA soccer, but truth is, any SA kid interested in soccer can go play,no soccer fan can ever say "oh no,that certain race can't play".....anyway,SA won the RWC2019. We are proud of the Boks! We love SA and we embrace its diversity.
But why should rugby be _"transformed"?_
Why is no one talking about a quota for Bafana Bafana? Really, why only the Bokkies?
I remember Matthew Booth getting celebrated by the _(mostly)_ Black fans. Reporters from other countries thought that he was being booed, when he got the ball. But they were just chanting his name. Well, I get why _"Booooooooth"_ chants could get misinterpreted. But he was a favorite of the fans. Although he was a White man in a mostly Black team, with mostly Black fans.
No one ever called for the soccer national team to have a quota for White players! But where's the difference? White soccer players don't have the same access to structures of becoming a pro as Black players.
And what about cricket? Are they the next to be _"transformed"?_
_Or swimming? But that's a case for itself. And very controversial theses days. The bodies of White men/people are better build for Olympic swimming. You can observe this in other multi racial societies. Like the US. Black people are the better runners, by nature. While White people are the better swimmers. This has something to do with their physique. The building of their upper bodies give them an advantage. While the building of the legs and the contractions of their muscles give Black people an advantage at running disciplines. But like I said, these statements are highly controversial!_
Met Chester in 2005 when I lived in CPT.
Don't most Springboks get picked from like 20 elite schools? If it's mostly White students (Due to economic reasons), isn't that going to translate into more white players? SHouldn't the Springbok selection committee honestly target schools outside of these schools?
The thing is those 20 elite schools have very good rugby and it's extremely important to them. They usually buy the best players from weaker schools, they will get coaches from foreign countries and they will receive donations from former scholars. Also it must be mentioned that the Springboks don't select from schools, they usually select from the rugby clubs (like blue bulls, stormers, sharks etc). The only case where a national team might choose a player from a school is if its under 21 and even then those guys have usually played SA schools.
@Rock Star well can you name a black school with a strong rugby culture. Because I can't. I don't think it's because they aren't hard working. It most likely has to do with the fact that the private schools occupied by black students are still very young, the majority of black people favour soccer way more than they favour rugby so they would rather play soccer and the average black male is shorter than the average white male, so white males have a phisical advantage when it comes to playing rugby.
Also I have to add. Those 10 elite schools tend to buy the good black rugby players as well.
I think the same is the case here in Ireland too. The entire squad at the world cup came from about 20 elite schools. Rugby has an elitism problem all around the world. Of course, the big difference is, in Ireland rugby unites minority Protestant and majority Catholic, the privately educated ones anyway.
This film is unnecessary and idiotic.
someone just got triggered😂
Agreed, all genuine rugby supporters support our team regardless of colour today because they are there on merit. This article is designed to polarise by stirring up the radicals on the left and right
This is irresponsible journalism. Discussing a racial issue in South Africa while ignoring the multiracial dynamics paints an inaccurate picture, in this case by not respecting the distinction between Black and Coloured identities
Quotas are an allround bad idea. People should be selected on pure merit. Race should not even be considered.
unfortunately if you fail in life, and you are in the public eye you are considered as a failure. that's the prestige and lure of fame. but if you fail In South Africa and you are Black it's not your fault it's Apartheid....
if only you could hear yourself from an outside perspective, your ignorance and soaked in privilege is just astonishing to hear.
@@djmc1969 couldn't have said it better myself.
@@djmc1969 You don't even live in South Africa? What do you know? Your insults describe yourself best. You personify the word "Ignorance" and have the arrogance to presume that you know more about the problems of people half way across the globe than those who actually live there. Is this because you have read some left-wing propaganda about SA and now you know more about the country than the people who have lived and fought there for generations? Tell me, how has British Rhodesia panned out? Why don't you go live in Kenya or Nigeria, both former English colonies? Or the Congo of Belgium? It seems that they did a much better job than the Afrikaners. Those places are so much better than SA aren't they?
Aah but the British were also involved in SA, you might argue. Indeed they were, they exterminated a quarter of the boer population in concentration camps as well as countless black people, and taught the Nazis how to do racism best. Now go back to your privileged life in the first world, shut-up and be happy.
Propaganda nonsense.
Videos like this devide us even more. Reminding us about our bad past. During this World Cup no one has said anything about quotas, only you. Shame on you The Economist.
Fucking poms 😤
RIP Chester :(
I'm a Kiwi. We are the All Blacks - the most successful sporting team in history. Our team is composed of New Zealanders whether they be native (Maori), immigrant (just about every Polynesian country there is and NZ-naturalised players from all over the world) or Pakeha (white New Zealanders). It has always been that the player who is best gets to be an All Black. We simply don't even consider ethnicity. You just have to be a Kiwi . . . and the best player. There have been about 1184 All Blacks, and native Aoteoroans ('New Zealanders' in the language of the native Maori people) have been represented in the team since its inception in 1884 and its first international match in 1903.
As a nation we were horrified and disgusted when South Africa under apartheid refused to allow native Kiwis to tour that country as All Blacks. In 1981 there was a schism in NZ when the Springboks toured here and it was a 50/50 split over whether politics should be a consideration in sporting contests. There were riots and violence, the like of which our country had rarely witnessed. NZ had an epiphany at that time and decided that we would not allow our All Blacks to tour South Africa until there was fundamental change in that country's political system and apartheid was eliminated. A New Zealand team called "The Cavaliers" did tour but were reviled by a majority of Kiwis. (They did it for money even though rugby was an amateur sport at that time).
I think we played a part in the collapse of apartheid by hitting white South Africans where it hurt them the most. (Of *course* sport can play a part in politics!) They became the pariahs they deserved to be.
Change came! And South Africa integrated its races and is growing strongly as "the rainbow nation"
It was the All Blacks they defeated when they won the Rugby World Cup in South Africa (even though they had to poison our players to do it!) and for the only time in our history we didn't mind (all that much) that we lost.
But we minded every time before that and every time since. We hate losing at rugby from kindergarten players to the All Blacks!
And we will welcome any player from whereever they may come in the world, if they become a Kiwi, and they are the very very best, into the most successful sports team in history - the Aoteoroa All Blacks!!!
It's not as easy for the South Africans as it was for you. Rugby (either union or league) is the main sport of most Polynesian and Melanesian nations. In Africa, association football (soccer) is by far and away the most popular sport. The only blacks in South Africa or other African countries who play rugby as boys (or girls) are the middle class, whose parents can afford to send them to private schools. So, until that far future day when there are as many middle-class black people as there are middle-class whites, you are NOT going to see real proportionality in rugby on that continent.
Sorry but there is a lot wrong with this. I'm a New Zealander too, it would be an excellent idea to stop referring to us as "kiwis" (cringe) outside of a slang or colloquial context if you want to be taken seriously - "native kiwis" are a variety of flightless nocturnal birds! White New Zealanders are New Zealand Europeans or European New Zealanders, not "pakeha" which is a made up Maori word that doesn't even translate as anything beyond (loosely) "other", which a lot of people find quite offensive hence its not widely used outside of Maori and the left wing commentariat (who like to self identify as it for some bizarre reason). "Aotearoan" is not a word (in any language). Players of Maori descent (not "native kiwis" which are birds) were only left out of the touring All Black side in 1928, 1949 and 1960, and I believe (certainly in the last case) that was at the behest of the NZ authorities (not the South Africans, though I stand to be corrected on this) who felt (very misguidedly, granted), that it was in their best interests, for their own safety etc. They subsequently toured and were treated as honorary whites (cringeworthy I know, but they did tour). If the players of Polynesian heritage are born in New Zealand (vast majority of them) then they're not "immigrant". I don't think NZ had an epiphany after the 1981 Springbok tour, it was more likely that they were doing a lot of international trade details at the time, having lost their protected arrangement with the UK, and were under pressure to cut ties with SA. The Cavaliers were hardly reviled, and it was international economic sanctions, as well as the reality of sheer weight of numbers the white minority in SA were up against, that led to the downfall of apartheid. Sporting sanctions did nothing, apart from shutting down the opportunity for positive bridge building and denying a whole load of South Africans, including some blacks and coloureds, the opportunity to represent their country at the highest level their ability warranted. And it's the New Zealand All Blacks!
Agree with you on the food poisoning point though;)
Aren't NZ whites immigrants? You white people are funny. Everyone is immigrant except white people even though they arent natives.
@@samaale7381 the blacks, colourds and indians in south Africa are all immigrants aswell. The only native people in south Africa are khoi and san people, which are the smallest minority in SA now as black tribes such as xosa and zulus wipes them out while moving around south Africa.
@@js9273 sad to think you kiwis keep blaming food poisoning for the 1995 wc, it was a lie, 2 or 3 players in your team were sick at the time but stop pretending like the whole team was half dead. Theres multiple documentarys about the fake food poisoning. Very sad :(
Thank you, the economist.
You have now segregated the country even further.
All part of the global ‘divide and conquer’ strategy we’re currently facing.
The team is not selected based on population size, but on skill set
justifying racism with racism. well done👏🏼
Players should be chosen on ability, form and how they fit into a team.
Stop using the word quotas as this segregates communities.
Unfortunately there are people that want a divide and what and whenever to meet this agenda.
Peter de Villiers was a kak Coach. Simply because he was a kak coach. That’s it. Not because he’s a person color.
How was he a kak coach? You can say Jake White, Rudolf, Harry, Nick and Heyneke were kak coaches!
I just watched a movie about some south africa rugby 🏉 players and I noticed not even one black player is on the team . What an embarrasment
Has the ZA national team been any good since the quotas?
we won the world cup in 2007 & we're about to win the world cup again :)
@@lm_b5080 Although the Springboks are very lenient on quotas and mainly select on merit. The Black and white players there are the best in the country which is fantastic. I think by 2023 the Springboks will naturally have more black players than white like the sevens team.
@@theultimatesharpshooter6734 i agree with you, viva ama bokko bokko