1986 FLEER BASKETBALL PACK RIP - FAKE PACK EXPOSED - VINTAGE SPORTS CARDS JORDAN ROOKIE
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- čas přidán 4. 02. 2011
- This is a video showing a fake pack that i purchased on eBay. I compare the pack to a graded authentic pack and I open the pack in the video to prove that the pack is a total fake!! Wait until you see what is inside the pack!
Sorry for all the ghetto editing, but the original video was close to 15 minutes long, and I had to edit it down to less then 10 minutes!! - Sport
Good video! I worked at card shop in the mid-90's. The owner had a whole box of the 1986 Fleer Bkball sitting on the shelf. Many people came in and wow'd at them, but I never sold one ($200 a pack). He ended up selling the shop that summer...and he wanted to go out with a bang...and so he opened the box! Upon taking the box down, he realized that a "former" employee (who he fired) had gone and opened each pack, removed Jordans/Barkleys/Malones, and refolded every pack! MAN WAS HE PISSED!
Packerscorner that’s funny but at the same time that crap costs 75k
@@thenextgenofgaming3662 Maybe deserved it lol
Hope he was a guy in Encino!
lol
Oh shit...
We're the fuk are all these Jordan rookie packs coming from
Hey DZ, I love your videos man. Its good to know there are other collectors out there that enjoy the hobby as much as I do! Keep up the awesome vids!
Hi, dzolot! Thanks for sharing your latest pick-ups (and hiccups)! I don't collect basketball but it's always great to see you adding to your outstanding, vast sports collection! Hopefully this video will also be a wake-up call for some collectors.
Wow!!! I'm a collector so THANK YOU 4 the heads up!! That's Fucked Up! Peace man keep making the videos love watching ✊
I've been watching some of your videos. You have a tremendous sports card collection! I really hope you get that Jordan sticker graded soon so we can see who's right!
Great work! I always enjoy videos that make the hobby safer from scammers.
I opened maybe 200 of those packs as a kid. .25 each from Moody's Dugout, Evansville, IN. Everyone wanted Spud Webb because of the dunk contest. So, anyway, first and foremost, I held together many folders at school with those stickers, they are not easy yo peel off and seem like they are not a sticker at all. You normally have to bend the corner over just to get the corner of the sticker to pop off. Second, the cards always came in number order just like that. Third, that printing error on the pack is very common for that era. I see $300-$600 GRADED packs on Ebay with the same printing error.
john cates yea bud i agree with ya a hundo !! Too bad this was AGES ago... hope he at least had PSA take a look at it....people asked but i never saw him reply back with an answer.... hell, I'd give him 200 bucks for that pack right here right now... give him a profit and most likely me one too !!!
john cates I'm from Terre haute brotha n in 86 had a shop on my Block I was about bird n baseball they had the star NBA packs too
Beautiful stuff! Love the channel!
@spaw74 Thanks for your comment and your support for making a video like this!
The collation is also wrong. In genuine packs there is a very consistant order to the cards. Basically each pack would consist of two interwoven series. I dont recall if it went up or down from the top card, but for example your order would be x, y, x+1, y+1, x+2, y+2 and so on. You would NOT find three consecutive numbered cards back to back to back - the consecutive cards would be interspersed with another run of consecutive numbers but every other card.
I dealt in cards and wax in the old days like 1987-92 and along the way bought and flipped several boxes of these. Lots of memories of this product - from being amazed at watching a dealer buy three boxes for $1000 a box at a show in NC to playing wax poker with 86 Fleer basketball at an Atlanta card shop for I think $80 a pack and losing a Jordan becuase the winning call was something stupid and not who pulled the best card. And remember a sealed case of 86 fleer basketball selling for 100k at the National in Atlanta in 1992. And the last loose box I handled I think I bought for 5500 and sold for 6500 at the National in Chicago in 1993. I also remember turing down an offer of several cases (I think it was 8 or 10) of Topps finest baseball in trade for it - just before that finest went nuts ( I turned down the trade because finest football had been a flop). Memories of a bygone era.
Well done, great video, very informative.
I always assumed the problem with '86-'87 Fleer was just loose counterfeited singles of Jordan, ect... along with pack searching & resealing. Not so much counterfeiting the wax and re-producing the whole product. The lengths these crums go to amazes me sometimes. If they only used thier creativity in a positive way this hobby would benefit enormously.
Anyway, keep up the good work and fight the good fight.
I have the whole set of 86 Fleer I got those cards the hard way I bought those cards and had to pull them. I got those cards in 11th grade. I would never send those cards in. I just keep them in my top loaders and enjoy my collection. Ty again great job on video my friend.
Shaun Sweeney ur lucky
DId you open the graded pack, if so did you get a jordan? If you buy a graded pack would you open it or hold on to it and wait for the value to sky rocket? Will the value increase with time, seems like it has gone down some.
@MrWakethesheeple The raw footage shows the regular cards I pulled, but I had to delete it to get the video below 10mins... I do give the card #'s though, so you know what cards I pulled. If someone searched the pack, why would they leave a real jordan sticker in there?? Doesn't seem to make sense...
Great video. Thank you. I used those info to not get ripped off at flea markets when people are selling old packs.
Thanks for the heads up! Like the collection and vids.
There are plenty of graded 86 packs with the same "misprint" you mention about the letters on the front of the pack. Wouldnt PSA pick up on that.? Could just be a variation in fleers printing process back in the day.
Been collecting for years, and have this complete set. This guy was spot on. I used to open these packs all the time (bought them at a comic book store in Indy that was glad to get rid of them at the time! LOL) The sequence of the cards is set in stone. They are NEVER in numerical sequence, like in the above fake pack. The sticker-less sticker card is also a dead giveaway. Plus, there should be printing dots on the word: Fleer, and basketball lines on the NBA basketball, which are not on the fake pack. Commons like the ones in the pack are easy to get, but the fact that these are all in sequence, means to me that someone broke a set, pulled the money cards, and loaded this fake pack with sequenced cards from a fairly freshly broken set. Another thing: you can tell simply by the top card, which you can see thru the pack, what the cards are underneath if you research people who have opened whole boxes. They're almost always in the same sequence. I could tell you what the sequence for the Jordan is, but i don't want to encourage cheating. Cheers.
Hi there and thanks for watching my videos! My suggestion would definitely be to NOT buy the $5.99 Ryan RC. If something is too good to be true, there's probably a catch so be carefull!
I'm super late to this video lol but thanks for making it. just recently watched a video of a box break where the breaker did some shady stuff and stole the good card. so now I'm watching more videos and learning a lot. thanks
i have the kareem abdul jabbar sticker and the whole sticker set how do you get the 1986 1987 card set
Thanks for this video! Keep up the great work!
@danbelcourt1 Won't sell for less than 15 cents -- inflation! haha... Thanks for watching my video!
I know this video is old and im not sure when it was discovered but arent those cards supposed to be in a certain order? Like you can predict them?
Great video and awesome channel! Is there anyway you could do a side by side fake Jordan rookie vs real Jordan rookie?
excellent tips here. i have one serious question though. over time, doesn't the acid on these cards eat themselves away? they were made with generic cardboard in 1987. and that gum may damage it over time too?
No gum came with fleer basketball cards...sorry to inform you so late..
@@80sGuy562 Sorry to inform you, but the wrapper says "1 STICK GUM."
What a damn good video! I was amazed at the crap cards and fake Jordan sticker. That was even worse than I expected. Our hobby needs more guys like you in it. Fraud is rampant right now and there appears to be no end in sight unfortunately.
@dvitoc I tried to upload the original, but it got rejected. Might have been my computer software that rejected it and not youtube, but rejected non-the less... Anyway, thanks for the heads-up!!
Good job. I have a ton of old unopened wax and the only time I really got burned was with the 86/87 Fleer BK. Fortunately it was only two packs. There is a sequencing for that box, but I don't know it unfortunately. This is and the 79/80 OPC HK are the two most dangerous packs to tread in "raw".
@BigPoppa72 Thanks all for all the positive feedback and support. Unfortunately, there are some real slime balls out there that we ALL have to be careful of. It's even worse when the people who make their livelihoods in the hobby are the ones abusing it...
@GuamStars Thanks GuamStars. I def plan to get the sticker graded -- I will let you know what happens!! (not sure when i'll be able to get around to doing it though)
@swartc39 Thanks for your comments. These are certainly good and fair points that the hobby has to address.
In terms of the pack being fake, there was a FAKE Jordan sticker in thepack!! I know it's fake, because there is NO sticker peal-off!! The card is just one solid piece of cardboard like any other ordinary card that is NOT a sticker.
HI there the last card you showed on here the graded Jordan is actually a 3rd year Jordan from 1988-89 still a great card to have,thanks for the great video
Hey, thanks for making this video man. Needs to be more people like you, going out of their way to help others.
What was the original price of the packs, 25 cents?
I luv ur vids man! Keep it up! N' thx for posting this... It helps... But I got a question... Online, I saw a 1968 Nolan Ryan rookie card for 5.99$ while all the other ones available were hundreds of dollars... Would this card be fake??? Pls answer
@slampass Wow!! Can you make a video of the box?? I'm sure all the collectors on youtube would love to see that (myself included)!!!
That Jordan sticker looks real to me, should authenticate it. What scammer would leave a Jordan rookie sticker clearly shown in the back of the pack in there? We are talking about sticker cards over quarter century ago, heck even those cheap 89-90 fleer stickers are hard to peel!!!
I bought a “reprint” Jordan rookie sticker. It’s not a sticker. It’s a card. Same as in that pack. He’s correct. It’s not a sticker. I have that card.
I have a few reprints just for fun, it’s easy to determine that it isn’t a sticker. The scammer placed it on the back probably because they hoped it would be easily seen and sold as a sealed pack with the Jordan on back making the pack exponentially more valuable and also giving good reason to never open it.
in those day of the wax packs the cards were spit out by a machine IN SEQUENCE . which means if you know the sequence then you can pretty much know what is in the pack without opening it. 1984 fleer baseball wax packs for example if you bought them by the case you could open up enough boxes to find out what the sequence was for lets say a don mattingly rookie card. if you flip the packs over and press on them you could actually see through the pack and make out what number card was on the bottom. then checking your sequence list you could pretty much find out which packs had the mattingly rookie of what ever other card you were looking for. and you could do this without opening the packs. you then would BUILD A BOX but not with the original packs but with whatever packs were left over from the two or more boxes that you opened. so if you have a case of 1986 fleer basketball cases you could also do the same thing to find out the sequence of numbers before and after the jordan pack. doing this one could easily STRIP all boxes that had the jordan rookie card and rebuild the boxes with worthless packs.
Sounds like panini these days! I still get that shit a lot
You are FAR too versed in this method. Wow.
You know what, I'm not mad that this was in my recommended
wer do u gat those and how much do they cost
@tim36g is your cousin also on the seal team that took out bin laden?
@Packerscorner -The good part is because I worked all summer for him (and he was selling the store) he gave me ALL the cards, packs, and the box as a gift! Pretty sweet even though I didn't collect basketball. That was in 1995. I actually ended up selling it all on about 5 years ago. Made more than I thought I would...but now I wish I would have kept them!
@tim36g So are you the seller TG?
I know this is an old video just by you saying the graded pack was $300 lol but all seriousness I’m grateful for people like you exposing these sellers . I would and do the same no breaks for them no bs excuse “ I didn’t know “ blah blah blah… they are ruining this hobby and it still happens 12 years later.
Such a badass .. great stuff as always
when this set was packed and shipped originally, it wasn't randomized. the cards in the box and in the packs are in order. even buying a pack from a box that's been opened is a bad bet because the dealer likely took the Jordan pack out already. the only way to buy anything from this set for me personally is sealed boxes or PSA/BGS graded. good video.
wat do they grade the card bye
were do u get ur cards
Looks like a good pack with a legit sticker. Did he get it graded?
Thanks for the Super Bowl halftime entertainment!
would you be willing to sell the lebron rookie?
you should send off the card ,just to see if it would be graded..show it if you get the note back saying why they dont grade it..or if they do ,,its an even better video on the graded fake...are you going to do this ,let us know..Nice video man,,if it werent for guys like you we wouldnt know things like this,,thanks for the breakdown..! NIce cards by the way..keep the vids coming bro...
this is why in 1989 upper deck was the very first company to come out with the factory sealed foil packs. however there was another problem with the first shipment of cases: finding a Ken Griffey rookie card was very difficult. if you were lucky you would find JUST ONE PER BOX and most of the time you found none. i was lucky enough to spend a dollar at an old OPTIMO store (remember those?) and got a Ken Griffey rookie in it. the guy behind the counter couldnt understand why i was waving my arms up and down in the "salami salami bologne" chant lol. oh those were the days.
in 1989 ud was a 700 card set (low series) 15 card pack x 36 packs is 540 cards per box,so your expectation is less than 1 griffey per box.no problem there.However because of the way they were cut and packaged you could open the top 4 packs in a fresh box and tell each card in that box,Dealers would take the griffeys and later randy johnson and sell the rest of the box by the pack.
if you got the low series, the first boxes to come out, you had a good chance of getting a griffey. they were very scarce later in the year with the high number series. i recently bought a low series box for 120 bucks and got 4 griffeys in it. one of them was graded a 9.5 and the the other 3 were 8,8 and 8.5
Your chances are /were very poor getting Griffey’s since the vast majority went out the back door
I think the Star Company was licensed. Their last year was in 1986 and then Fleer took over from there. The 1985 Star Jordan was considered to be his XRC , which was about $2,000 back in 1992. In the same set, there was an Olympic Jordan which was about $800 back then. The 1986 Star Jordan was his Rookie before Fleer. When u look at the back of the 86-87 Fleer Jordan card, youll see he already played 2 seasons in the NBA. So his 1986 Star Rookie is actually his NBA Rookie Card.
Keep up the good work and exposing these frauds!
Can't wait till Melo becomes a Bull lol and just wondering I bought a sealed box of 2000-2001 nba cards would you recommend opening it?
I would. It won't have any value for a long time if you keep it sealed, but there is a chance that you might find something good in there that will have value. That's just my personal opinion, I'm no expert.
how do you authenticate your cards?
THIS VIDEO IS HAS AWESOME INFORMATION. THANK YOU SO MUCH!!
What up guy, appreciate you opening that pack. You knew it was a fake before you opened it, you should of sent that back and got your money. Some sports card dealers are scumbags. I am working on a graded 86-87 Fleer set and it is so tough to find those cards centered. You get anything new for your collection?
This is still relevant 9 years later. Maybe even more so with the docus about Jordan and the Bulls that were released this year.
Ive bought sealed boxes and have had auto cards scratched and bent man. Not every card comes immaculate.
"Sealed boxes" bro they reseal boxes also, not just packs.
I remember buying those packs back in 1993 it cost me 99 cents but in 1986 the pack cost 50 cents
I remember my mom giving me 5 dollars I used to go to a near store my house they had this packs of basketball cards and more each Saturday I got me 2 packs for $2 and also got me 4 pack of Cheetos for 1 dollars along with the tiny fat juices that cost 25 cents lol great memories i wouldn't buy nowadays this packs $150 and $50 fake pack no way the gum that used to come inside the pack it tasted nasty
@rockygonuts Thanks for the info. I'll definitely take another look at the sticker. Like i said in my response below, i will bring it to a card show to get it graded! Does anyone know about card sequencing / order in the packs? I give the card numbers, so maybe someone can give some info. on if the numbering makes sense. Also, there was that one card in the middle of the pack with a bent corner, which I guess is possible, but not likely...
Good stuff, DZ!
I know what you mean buddy I want trust my best friend like you said everybody's taking the fun out of the hobby thanks for sharing bud
Wow,I don’t know how you stayed so calm...I would be boiling
very nice lebron and thanks for the videos
Thanks for the vid! Crazy stuff!
Thxs saved me from hundreds of dollars wasted best of luck with your future finds
Priceless reaction to the Jordan card.
there's quite of bit of indicators on the fake cards sometimes the quality really is darker than the originals lighter even sometimes a whole different color also the feel of the card some fakes can be like a photo glossy look instead of a card look really obv fake, the fleer logo is sometimes missing or is all one color the symbol underneath the fleer logo should be orange, yellow, orange and not just one solid color. on the backside of the cards some times its missing the bold Period dot near player name.
Kudos!! Small price to pay to show "Ethics" make this hobby, Thank You.
This will be here to aide people & have better odds to not get burned, and soured on the hobby.
Link this video on collectible MB's as a heads up for novice & established collectors.
awesome video. good looking out!
As a kid when I would buy these packs I quickly learned all card shops or flea markets went through and resealed them after getting the good cards out after that I never bought that brand again unless it was at a store behind a sealed lock
When are you going to make your next video?
This same thing happen to me. I got a Fleer basketball pack from 1989 and the Magic Johnson sticker didn't even have any place to peel it. But the back clearly said "peel and bend here".
is that bubblegum fake too
Good work. It’s a shame that scammers like the pack seller pull stuff like this.
why did he say baseball fans?
hahahahaaaa good one....I missed that altogether...
His fan base was probably originally aimed at baseball card fans. Use your limited imagination to dream up a world where baseball card fans would enjoy watching a basketball break and have a chance to see what to watch out for with any sports cards wax.
its just universal to say i collect baseball cards..lol i have mostly football cards myself but still refer to my collection as basebeall cards.
Heck, even non-sports cards are referred to as baseball cards once in awhile. :)
Thank you for that. That’s crazy.
When it comes to wax packs for this season, a key may be a gum. After so many years passed, the enclosed cards should smell like s××t...sorry, I mean a piece of ancient sugar stick. You may even feel some chalk powder-ish stuffs covering some cards. The bottom card (sticker) of a long-term unopened packs also tends to have very serious wax damage for getting sealed. For this reason, I traded one of my raw Jordan sticker for discounted price/amount of other cards, demanded by the dealer I dealt with long time ago. The original packing problem is not my fault... Anyway, another respondent here is correct to say that there are some set orders for the enclosed cards. Therefore, if the cards are completely shuffled in weird manner, packs containing those may be quite likely to be fakes. Anyway, enjoy your collecting life, folks!!
Yeah I was just thinking it would be really difficult to replicate that unique wax paper. I'm totally ignorant on the subject though. Perhaps much easier than one would presume.
Counterfeiters are nothing if not ingenious I suppose. Although leaving that bottom fold unfolded was baffling. You would think something so glaringly obvious would not be overlooked by whoever made it. Strange...
Dude I'm not so sure thats a fake.. I just watched a bunch of other psa packs get opened and the bottom flap wasnt folded on any of them and one guy pulled a Jordan rookie. You might wanna double check that sticker card
Iam sure he knows what he us talking about he points out all the flaws then you tools are like they are real then why wasnt that Jordan a sticker ya fucks
There were MANY packs back in the day that were mis-folded, loosely wrapped, etc. that came directly from the tobacco wholesalers, who were weekend warrior dealer's main sources of what is now called "product". You are also correct about the sticker and also, this is a 132 card set, sequence distribution was not all that odd.
Hello D! Hope your doing well...we spoke quite a bit a few years ago when you were posting these videos..you encouraged me to post a video of my cards...so I finally did it...check it out if ya have some time...some vintage packs too..;)...Do you still collect?
how much for the fake jordan
Are you Pauly Shore?
Good Video !!
Why thank you! Have some ideas for a new video - hope to make it soon!!
@bubba987 Interesting that you joined youtube TODAY, presumably to write this comment? You don't happen to know TG do you? I do not claim to be any kind of expert on 86 fleer packs - The facts in the video speak for itself!! I don't get your point about the sticker... doesn't matter how old the card is, it is NOT a sticker. It is one solid piece of cardboard!! Next time I goto a show that PSA is at, I will bring the card to get graded and will let people know the results...
One of the most corrupt business in the world. I stopped buying when I realized all the boxes where searched. I bought a pack of Star Wars cards the because I had forgotten what it was like. Packs had been opened and every card was off center. Nothing changes.
I am not sure why the seller didn't offer you a refund, Even if you opened it and seller refused to give you a refund, eBay should have some seller protection setup for this very reason.
The seller is now claiming Dzlot sent in the pack to PSA and received a PSA 9 already. What?
@dzolot Thx for the answer and reply. I really appreciate it! I hope u the best of luck in the hobby in the years to come and I'll make sure I keep watching ur vids man! Lol
Did the card come back fake from PSA or what?
Nice video, I've done the same, purchased fake Rookie Jordan cards, purchased fake Albert Pujols Autos (2001 Fleer Legacy, 2006 Bowman Originals), and I just like to have them in my collection for history purposes, and to teach people, sometimes wasting some pocket change for other agendas is not bad, it's a sacrifice for others, plus, it's just good to have it an laugh at it, compare it to the real ones, and just brag about having the real thing...
Imagine re-sealing it and returning it as "un-opened". Checkmate scammers.
i bought a box of 81donruss baseball guy said it was un touched when i got it the box was taped together the packs were supposed to have 18 cards per pack not 1 out of 30 packs had 18 cards most had 13 to 14 cards not 1 pack had a semi star or anybody u heard of and when i asked him about it the seller said thats the chance u take on old wax and repot him or give him a bad feedback he did not care and his feedback for me was w as tch out for me i was just trying to get my moneyback pos that guy was
If you know it, put his name out here.
@SashaNein The poster of the video was the one who thought it was a fake wrapper and card, not me. He obviously does not know enough to determine what is fake or real. He is the moron not me, sir.
If it's in a legit PSA seal, it's the real deal.