Why Tudor Black Bay In-House Kenissi movement sucks. Also Breitling, Nomos, Oris, AP inhouse suck.
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2024
- Do you own the new Tudor Black Bay Fifty-Eight, 54, 58, GMT, Pro, 36 or any other Tudor watch with the new In-House Kenissi movement? Why does it break so often? Do you think In-House Metas certified is better? It's not. Also it's not just Tudor. In-House movements from any brand can't reach the quality of mass produced ETA and Sellita. Watch this video to see why.
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The MT5400 movement in my BB54 has been phenomenal. It looses time on the wrist and gains when boxed at night, thus making it easy to regulate with wearing habits. Since 27 Oct 23 to today 21 Mar 24 it has lost 0.8sec. Not daily, that's total deviation. Like i said, phenomenal.
I have two modern Tudors with MT5400 and MT5402. I’ve experienced no quality or accuracy issues.
One QUARTER of a second deviation per day in my BB58. My IWC can only dream of this accuracy.
My BB54 is generally running less than 1 second per day. I just love it.
I have 3 Tudors currently. One loses about 2 seconds per day. The other two gains 1 or 2 seconds per day. METAS results without the METAS price. No complaints whatsoever.
The MT5400 movement is phenomenal, can’t speak for the date option but lost just 1 second in a week.
Tudor's manufacture movements are truly excellent. I have 5 and have had zero problem. What I got, however, was phenomenal precision. Never more than 2 seconds per day on my 5 Tudors. So sir, have I been lucky 5 times? 🤡
So how exactly did these 5 movements perform after 20 years of everyday use?
@@QuartzCrisis Only time will tell. Tudor founded Kenissi not too long ago. But given the supreme quality of these movements, I will be able to sleep peacefully.
Great video. I constantly say that in-house movements are a bad idea on the basis of my experience with vintage watches. These days I generally only buy vintage watches with movements from the big manufacturers like ETA, FHF, AS, Unitas, Landeron, Peseux etc. I love vintage Longines and Buren/Hamilton but the parts are now an absolute nightmare and cost a fortune.
It's not just brands charging high prices for service that is an issue. Many brands simply refuse to service anything more than ten years old on the basis of "parts unavailability" or being "out of support" like a software release. Tissot do this, even for watches where parts supply is actually abundant and independents can still service them. It's just not worth Tissot's while. So they send the watch back along with a voucher for money off a new Tissot from their web store.
It's not just strictly in-house movements that are going to be affected by this - it will also be a problem for ETA movements in future as they now refuse to supply parts to independents. That will likely be partially mitigated by the huge number of abandoned ETA-powered watches which can be cannibalised for parts, but it's still a profoundly consumer-unfriendly policy. And the Powermatic 80 series is much harder to regulate by an independent watchmaker in any case because of its free sprung balance.
So for me Sellita wins because of their scale and willingness to supply parts. Seiko Instruments and Miyota probably also OK?
Incidentally I have many ETA and Sellita powered watches from the 80s to the present day and have never had a problem with any of them beyond needing the occasional service to relubricate their moving parts. Whereas my Zodiac powered by an STP movement failed after three weeks. Replaced under warranty no problem and I'm keeping the watch because I like it but it's another data point for you.
Do you honestly think servicing a Tudor is going to be impossible in 20years? Obviously something very weird could happen and the whole watch market could collapse. But I don’t see it being an issue for the bigger brands. Maybe some lower priced watches or some very small independent brands even at the top end could be an issue perhaps. But brands like Tudor or Omega are likely to be serviceable for a long time to come surely?
This is what I think about movements in general. Anything under 500 should be Quartz it will last longer without any major service. No one will pay (especially here in the US) 200 bucks+ to get their NH35 Movement watch serviced they will throw it and move to a new one. In-house movements should be for watches 5,000k+.
Very good points and not enough talked about subject!
I can only sympathize with people facing issues with brand new watches.
Mechanical failures are always hard to swallow, especially for new / recent / serviced watches.
It’s natural for any mechanical object/instrument/vehicle to one day or another have an issue, of course, but the rate of such incidents shouldn’t be as high as it seems to be, especially for luxuryitems that are this expensive imho.
To me it’s a bigger topic than that.
I believe that the industry is facing or will be facing a big challenge with after sale services.
All these new « in house » movement and ETA clones aren’t created equal. Some are masterpieces and some are proper junk. Unfortunately we don’t have the hindsight on this yet…
But I’m genuinely afraid of the consequences of the reliability issues both on the brands economics and mostly on the consumer fatigue about it.
I’ve had many issues with a brand new Sinn 103 which I absolutely adored but had to cancel the sale and return the watch because it was constantly in repair. It feature at clone of the 7750 made by Concepto.
In my own experiences with the ETA Valjoux versions I hadn’t ever had an issue before.
Same goes for a Zodiac Olympos Field I bought, featured the STP1-11 which is Fossil’s 2824 clone: it failed twice in a few months… I sold the watch.
I haven’t had in house movement failure yet, knock on wood, but the horror stories pop up more and more indeed and I don’t think I will buy any new watch if it features a yet unproven reliability record.
Reliable ETA/Sellita movements are the way to go...
Got my Tudor black bay pro 2 years ago, they sold me the watch without winding it, a couple of hours after, while setting it upI realise that the seconds hands was not moving regardless of how much winding. It came out that, that movement was broken. They gave me a new watch though, so end up to be all ok.
Wow! I'm glad this was resolved. Thank you for sharing
Modern Tudor have some of the best movements out there . The 5400 for example altgough not a certified movement , it's extremely well built and performs amazingly accurate
...and breaks often
Yes breaks often # unfortunately
I compared my Tudor BB GMT with my Seestern GMT that cost @ 100 dols , w a Seiko movement …and they run exactly the same
So how did both compare after 40 years of everyday use?
Tudor movement started clicking and grinding when being wound. Luckily under warranty but pretty disconcerting.
Wow:( Good luck, and try to prevent them from dropping a new movement into your watch
Thank you for this information 👍
For me is the opposite. My Blue Tudor BB58 is the best accuracy watch ever. After 7 years is still +/- 2 sec a day.. its ASHTONISHING!!!
I also have a Nomos Ludwig that lose 1 sec a day after 1 year.. definitely the second best watch ever
I think that the Kenissi movements should be very easily serviceable. I believe they’re based off of the backbone of Rolex calibers, and they’re probably just as intuitively made. From watching a few different watchmaking channels, it seems that Rolex calibers are actually designed to be worked on. I guess it would be uncharted territory for some watchmakers, but the movements themselves shouldn’t really be too complicated to take apart.
The problem is getting parts, not how easy it is to work on the movement. Only Kenissi/Tudor employees can get the parts, but your watchmaker who doesn't work for Tudor can't
@@QuartzCrisis How often do parts really need replacing though? I feel like it only really happens when the owner really puts the movement through its paces or doesn’t service regularly.
@@dainluke yes, people don’t and shouldn’t regularly service their watches. See my previous video “Service Or Not?”
@@QuartzCrisis That’s fair enough, but I feel like it’s common sense with items this valuable. One wouldn’t not service a car, so I feel like it should be common knowledge. I, however, do believe that service intervals depend on how many pieces one owns, as modern lubricant doesn’t need to be circulated to prevent it from congealing.
Dude, Oris offers 10 years of warranty on their in-house movements. Also, the recommended service interval on Oris in-house is 10 years. And no, they don't just "drop" a new movement in there. Do your research.
they do it because they know the movement is untested and they want you to believe that it's good and they are willing to eat the price of their mistakes. If the movement would be good they wouldn't offer long warranty
@@QuartzCrisis Yes, my thoughts exactly. Initially, the BB58 had a warranty of only 2 years. Then they upped it to 5 years. Is it because they have confidence in their product? Or is it because of the unforeseen high failure rate? If it was because of confidence in their product, why not begin with the 5 year warranty? Why start out at 2, then up it to 5? Seems a little suspicious....
And this is coming from someone who owns a BB58, purchased before doing all the research. Performance is amazing so far, but we'll see what happens in the future. 3 to 4 thousand dollars is a pretty hefty price to be a guinea pig. If I had to do it over, I don't think I would make the same choice. Too expensive a gamble for me.
Also, is it even possible to regulate a free sprung balance? From any brand? Curious how that works.
Edit: Love the animation at the end. I think "Not Russia" is my new favorite country 😂 When this is all over, maybe a new name change should be considered.
all these comments about wanting thin watches when this pressure on manufactures can result on them making a movement that is too thin and breaks all the time.
There are plenty of thin vintage ETA movements that were mass produced and don't break. Often modern brands can't achieve what they used to do many years ago in vintage watches.
@@QuartzCrisis I think today all the thin in-house movements break, all of them, so I hear.. Making a thin watch for the artistry is fine but it is not going to be a watch you can wear daily.
A Casio F91W has an in-house movement too.
We'll keep it in the same reliable category as Rolex and Seiko ;)
So, we cannot buy any good watches?
Hey this channel is about vintage;) please give vintage watches a chance
almost all nice watches use in-house movement now? @@QuartzCrisis
Lots of problems in Tudor, IWC, even Rolex movements...
Just buy the Invicta 1953! Looks the same & just pay like a hundred bucks 🤔
if tudor in house suck so seiko grand seiko is the worst XD?
Please see the video until the end, I'm talking about Seiko
Actually the word a manufactory is a part of marketology strategy, and this word is taken seriously only by people who are deprived of logical thinking and are buried in cement of actually horologyreligion of self. An example from my watch collection the nh35 mechanism in the china watch maker and the third year stable 2 seconds plus in days. Well and of course Tudor … in one and a half years began to make problems therefore I think by trade in and to get rid of this manufactory miracle.
Valuable perspective, great points…but pretentious and elitist delivery, to be honest. My two cents: you’ll reach more people with your valid message if you lighten up the way you preach it! Take it or leave it, great content either way
Thank you for sharing. I kindof know that I'm doing it;) and I definitely need to try to lighten it up. I do see your point that the message would reach more people
Tudor inhouse just too thick
Not always the mt5400 is certainly not in the bb54
nice
😂🤦🏻♂️
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Mjeluinz
TURDor by KENISSI Outhouse is garbage