@@kilonzok7803 Kurama broke those chains. Without Naruto's own power from Sage Mode (Y'know, *hard work and training* ) the chains would have been useless.
Don't for get when Nine Tails Chakra bleed more into naruto. Naruto get flash of sher pain and blood shed crying of souls consumed by Kurama. Hatred, Lost, crys for help and death rings into naruto's heart as Kurama trys to take over multiple times
I've noticed all these really bad arguments have the most likes. Kinda sucks to see that the majority of people are too stupid to understand something like Naruto
To defeat kurama he used sage mode. And as we know sage mode can only be aquired by people born with high amounts of chakra. Also he used the chains kekkai genkai of his mom to get kurama
I remember one scene when Naruto as a kid was looking at some masks and shopkeeper just snapped at him, pushed him and then threw the mask at him... Naruto got up, picked up the mask and ran away.....that scene mad me cry
He was in the wrong and right for that Minato saved the whole leaf doing that but also put his sons reputation underground and it damaged Naruto mentally
@@nasimjahan5683 meditate? Have you seen how quickly he can enter sage mode? It took him like 3 seconds. Fact of the matter is if he did the series wouldn't have happened. That's the problem with trying to juggle powerful characters and while having them be relevant in the future when lots of time has passed and everyone else is also more powerful
I'm kinda sad you didn't bring up the Genjutsu Itachi put Naruto through. How he just started to break down as all of his stresses (at the time of the series) appeared to him as avatars on different parts of his body. Sasuke appearing talking about how badly he wished he killed him, Sakura scolding him for not bringing back Sasuke, Kakashi calling him a disappointment, Gaara telling Naruto how alone he is and how he wishes he could be happy like Naruto, etc. That shit was fucked up.
Kakashi finally training Naruto for once🤣🤣 Remember when he wanted Naruto to train with Ebisu. He was a terrible sensei in part one Naruto always favouring Sasuke.
HofSaiyanjin at what point tho cause I’m the anime he doesn’t say that except for when naruto leaves with him and when they were preparing for the chunin exams
lil vro vro It’s after Naruto defeated Gaara, but he didn’t take him on as a student until Naruto showed Jiraiya his potential, and when he found out about organization in the Akatsuki. Kakashi still heavily chose Sasuke over Naruto even before that.
Naruto is one of those that hide his depression behind his smiles, while on the inside he is hurting on such a deep level. He has experienced so much pain, which is why he can empathize with other people's suffering. This is also why he feels so strongly about wanting to help everyone. He wants to make sure nobody suffers the same pain he did, which is why he works so hard. At least, that is how I understood his motivations.
@@jacksonunknown2587 Yeah, Shikamaru and Choji were pretty chill with Naruto... I remember that Shikamaru was quite confused about everyone hating Naruto's guts lol.
@@jacksonunknown2587 Yeah they were relatively pleasant to him, but but like the rest of the adults their parents forbid them from interacting with him due to their fear of the fox, the kids just did with their parents told them. Also fun fact, if you check the first chapter of the manga sometime after Naruto steals the scroll, you can see a bunch adult shinobi declaring that Naruto should be killed.... and Chouji's father is among them.
I don’t think anyone who actually watched the series would claim that Naruto had it easy or that he didn’t have to work incredibly hard, he obviously did, but the things he eventually goes on to accomplish could never, ever be achieved by a normal person no matter how hard they worked, which still contradicts the supposed moral of the show.
Naruto Uzumaki theme is Cooperation where he achieves power when someone helps him....Tailed Beasts during Madara and Kaguya and the allied forces showed this during the tug of war extracting the beasts from Obito.....and countless other times that Naruto needed help...........the whole theme of the Naruto series is the cycle of hatred not hard work.
Yes Naruto worked hard and trained hard. And had to experience many emotional losses and dilemmas. He had a tough life. (And Hinata loves him very very much despite everything...?) Hence, he is the underdog. That's kind of what I got from the video. There isn't any concrete argument or breakdown, especially of PlagueOfGripe's video which you claim will 'debunk'. For instance, you cherry-picked some negatives and positives regarding Lee and Naruto but it doesn't serve any meaning in comparisons. Why don't you peg Lee's fashion sense down to as negatives. Or any of Naruto's bloodline gifts as positives. Lee had supportive teammates. I guess Naruto never had anyone supportive in his life. Yeah the gate technique is really powerful isn't it, if you ignore the self harming side effects. Put that down as a positive. Its really easy to list things down when you have no clear directives. You can make anyone the underdog, even Madara if you frame it that way. It's ok to admit Naruto has some clear advantages over his peers. It doesn't cheapen any other emotional story line that you enjoy personally. Don't call people 'NPCs' when you're presenting such a skewed and hastily put together argument.
I'm sorry you had to take time to comment this since he won't answer to valid criticism. Unless it's some comment jerking him and his video off he won't bother since he knows he will lose the argument.
How did Naruto worked hard and trained hard if he doesnt know even the basics of the basics which is the word "chakra"? You may defend it by saying "Well he has no friends because everyone is afraid of him thus doesnt want to get close to him and therefore unable to teach him the basics of being a ninja" Well it turns out Naruto isnt just lazy about learning, he was also lazy about making friends. If he really worked hard to be recognized then he wouldve easily been friends with the likes of Choji and Shikamaru but well... the author is a bit of a mediocre storyteller so that's why Naruto series is riddled with lot of plot holes.
@@bayekofsiwa5847 Bullshit on so much I mean first off Naruto never says he doesn't know what chakra is and next it wasn't that he didn't work hard there's several times it's stated that he did just at first he couldn't do it. Also the village ostracized him when he was younger and kept their kids away so no matter how hard he worked the kids wouldn't be able to go near him til they were genin and even there by that point some of them had been ingrained with a hatred of Naruto or just found him annoying from their academy days
+Lord Kars Plague's video's point isn't that Naruto didn't endure hardship, everyone has in the Nartuo Universe, even the geniuses. But Naruto is no underdog, he started out as an outcast, but ended up becoming the most powerful ninja in ninja history. Like he says, Rock Lee should have been the real protagonist, the show lost its moral it tried to convey by having all of these gifts bestowed upon Naruto.
Imagine watching the film rocky, and rooting for Rocky Balboa’s training in the slums of Philadelphia and fighting against an obviously superior opponent with all the odds stacked against him. Then about half way through the movie you learn that actually Rocky’s dad was the undisputed champion of the world in every weight class, his mom was an Olympic athlete, his coach is actually a retired Muhammad Ali, his life had actually been watched over by the president of the United States because he is a secret weapon of the USA against foreign invaders, and that he’s also an literal reincarnation of the demigod Hercules sent down from Olympus to vanquish his opponent. Sort of devalues the whole underdog narrative doesn’t it?
So because LeBron James had amazing genetics for sports, he isn’t an underdog story anymore? Even though he was well below the poverty line, moving from house to house and with no father in his life?
Naruto actually inspired me to go study again . he taught me that never give up and it is not never to late to start over again and follow your dreams.
@sanna karppinen I failed out of/dropped college twice. Now I've been getting straight As 5 semesters in a row. Naruto really showed me that the sadness and the rejection of life is not its bottom line, that the hard work and compassion you give can be rewarded somewhere, and that making goals is important to nourish self actualization. I really resonate with your comment and how this show inspired you.
@@this_functional634 The thing is unlike Naruto. For some people, however hard they try it doesn't pay of. They could only see other people, who were just born with more intelligence, had great genetics or by sheer luck attain things with Low difficulty, that they themselves even after countless tries and trying as hard as they could are no were near attaining. In our world: for a certain goal, there are 1)Some people who could attain it with no difficulty. 2)Some people who have to try hard, and after some tries, they are able to attain it. eg Naruto 3)Some people who aren't able to attain the goal however much they try. They could only do is understand there limits and look for secondary less liked options that they are able to do. 4)Some people who have no ambition to attain the goal and are just fine as they are. People in case 3 which includes the most people in it, have a bit hard time to relate to Naruto's character/mindset after being so humbled by life.
@@this_functional634 bro. naruto didnt even study on his own. he was force to study because of his privilege. but you are not privilege like naruto to succed in life.
To Be Honest it was pretty much hiruzen’s fault for everything he did not have to tell the villagers about naruto nor did he have to let him sleep in a crappy apartment.I honestly sympathize with naruto because Minato sacrificed his life for naruto and only asked for one thing in return which is To treat naruto like a hero.Everything minato accomplished would go to naruto since that’s his son.
lol he assumed "tell everyone that he held the nine tails equates to people treating him a hero for holding it back right after everyone loses their loved ones. genioush! lol
when you're doing some digging and they try to silence you, you know you're going the right direction... except when you're not. Hiruzen silencing everyone made the matter worse because it further 'proved' their suspicion of Naruto being the Kyuubi. It was a terrible decision.
No dude. Neji was wrong. All the power was given to him, yes. But there were many CHOICES Naruto had to make to not go the wrong way with his power. Look how many strong enemies, literally just below Naruto if not stronger at the time of fighting chose the wrong path and Naruto shows him that. This manga/anime has nothing to do with power levels. It has everything to do with the human condition and empathy.
noob saibot no at first he was an outcast and an underdog, natuto always messed up and no one thought that naruto could become what he became so of course he was both at first and then he was neither so why am i sucking naruto off if im just objective i couldnt care less pal its just what it is.
Underdog - A person who has little status in society. Outcast - A person who has been rejected by society or a social group. Which one of these truly fits Naruto? He was not the underdog, Lee was. Naruto was the outcast. Forever struggling to earn respect and find a place within the Leaf Village even when the villagers themselves made it clear they didn't want him. The anime and mange shows and tells us that repeatedly. Cut the insults as well, it devalues any point you try to make.
The third hokage has respect for him, because he was the son of the fourth. Jiraiya ended up training him also because he is the son of the fourth. Clearly the top ranks of the social hierarchy do pay him attentian and make things easier for him. When the top ranks of the hierarchy care for you, then you are deffinetly not rejected by the system. In fact the system was trying to help him by making laws that forbid parents to tell their kids about Kurama. His status was so high as a jinchuriki of the hidden leaf and son of the fourth hokage, that the system are willing to create new laws, just to make his life easier.
@@petqica7505 I looked up the definition of underdog. It's as follow... "A competitor thought to have little chance of winning a fight or contest." I'm thinking of the Neji fight. Who did people think would win? Whether someone is an underdog is based solely on other people's opinions and NOT based in the individuals potential.
I think that he was underdog. Not terms of raw strength, but in the terms of being an outsider to his own village, and having been seen as a loser. His story is how he gains the trust and recognition of his village
Underdog not in terms of strength but in terms of being an outcast and loner is not an underdog....its an outcast and loner, shino anyone?, they are different terms for a reason....they mean different things
Comicdude215 Extreme Don’t see why people don’t understand this. The definition of underdog is a competitor thought to have little to no chance in completing a goal, and the whole village hated Naruto and didn’t expect him to accomplish anything in life.
MM25 people dont understand because you are not making real arguments. It was never Stated whether or not people thought naruto would or wouldnt be shit. all we know is they avoided him ( yes some hated him), which has nothing to do with being an underdog. You literally gave us the definition then explained how naruto doesnt fit that But still did the mental gymnastics required to believe you are right.
Boosted avian They avoided and despised him. No one in the village expected him to become Hokage like it’s pretty obvious. Another definition for underdog would be someone who has little status in society. And that perfectly explains Naruto, backing up what I said. He has no one in the village, no one expected anything from him, they avoided and hated him, making him an underdog.
I don't think I've ever really compared my childhood to Naruto's with any actual thought, but I have kind of resonated with the loneliness he felt. Though mine wasn't nearly as bad, I didn't have a father and my mother died when I was young. I eventually made some friends, but I usually spent a lot of time practically alone at my house. It's not that my great aunt and uncle didn't care for me, but by the time they got me, even though I was only a couple of months old, they were on the decline of their physical health. I did manage to make some friends that lived pretty close though. My longest and one of my closest friends was the neighbor that lived right across the street, and we have been friends for a long time and most of my other friends I came into contact to directly or indirectly by him. So in a way I can relate to a bit to how Naruto grew up, but again not nearly as harshly as he had it. Maybe this is why I enjoy the series so much, but I've never actually pondered on it, so I don't know
@@xdrawesome314x4 Seth the Programmer is a youtube who gives power scales for individual anime characters. He made a comment in this vid and it should be one of the first comments u see.
Yes The power he had inside of him could have killed him in many different ways. Internal and external. People saying he wasn’t obviously didn’t watch the OG Naruto series.
(i do not blame you if you do not read this hold thing it took me three and a half hours to make this i just hope part one gets may point across so have a nice day i am finally going to bed now) ok now lets see 11 years of everyone being a dick to i see your po.....wait kurama himself killing naruto internally and externally ok let see if that part it true. if time naruto used kurama save sasuke and he bridge builder became a hero to a little town, ok that is one benefit. saved him from being eaten and i think this time going to be killed by a giant snake, ok one benefit. saved him from dying when his god father throw him off a cliff and gave him his toad friend, a benefits all around. helped him kick neji's ass making one fight away from being a chunin, benefits. so far only see one external form but that one was not going to kill him. used the 9 tails to summon his toad to fight a tailed beast made a clone of the 9 tails for a few seconds, saved him from being killed by sand and saved the village, still waiting for kurama to hurt naruto in anyway that can lead to him dying yet only see one big negative and a lot of positives that can't naruto living like nothing happened. oh i think i got one when ( not going to try and spell their names now hopefully i describe them right) the snake sanin's doctor almost killed naruto oh wait that guy had to cut chakra lines so kurama would but help naruto so we have an internal factor killing naruto that was not cause by the 9 tails so moving on. when trying to get sasuke and his fight with the bone guy kurama did not help cause the guy was shitting on naruto in that from so yea. what this naruto have a chidori right through his right arm how will he ever become hokage.... oh wait kurama heal that in seconds you say, so that is one more benefit you say ok. naruto gets his ass kicked to an opponent still trying to kill him and the 9 tails gave him more power to live and fight on you say, ok that is ben- oh wait naruto finally gets internal damages that could kill him if this continues so neither a benefit or a problem? you can jugde that one base on the fight for yourself. ok that is part one of naruto the score is one biggest negative one small negative oh wait kurama made it hard to control chakra so two small negatives tho i think the last one could have been fixed if naruto really tried during his years in school like rock lee but keeping it there. now the benefits, save sasuke and the bridge builder, fought for rock less and hinata and be neji becoming closer to a chunin; the chunin part really does not matter because of the fight against the leaf but in context before that it did. saving the leaf village and fighting as well as beating a tailed beast that is a hokage level feat; saved his life during that fight. the fox helped naruto stay in the fight against sasuke and made him able to continue his dream unless you want to argue naruto can do it with just one arm you can but we have to give Might Guy his leg back. so that is part one 4 negatives and five benefits and most of the benefits are concelling out the negatives so on to part 2. the fox was no help in the kazakage arc more like a danger to everyone, so one negative. used two injuried him and sakura so that is two negatives oh wait. naruto was fighting a sanin and with out the nines the only ones on team 7 that was going to live was sai and yamato i think having both me and someone else but have healable injuries cancels that one out i can argue that was a benefit cause now naruto can still save sasuke and be hokage later in live. the nine was on used for a while until pain comes along. boy this is an important one so here we go; so pain came to the village for naruto so that is one negative but the really negative is that everyone has to built there houses back up now but that was not a problem for anyoen not even naruto so that negative is gone. naruto would have die in this fight and there would only be one more tailed beast to catch if it was not for hinata getting naruto to use, say it with me, THE NINE TAILS TO KICK PAINS ASS FOR HIM, once again a benefit a dangerous i will give you that but we all know what happened next. Naruto gets to see his father for the first time; you can argue that is a negative cause the nine tails is what caused his parents to be 6 feet under and as you know that was a benefit in the long run and look at the war arc and naruto gettting the nines is not prove of this literally the two biggest reason naruto was winning the wart was thanks to them being die. ok so we have three instead of the nine tails killing him that ends with naruto getting a bigger benefits to that fact (i would love to hear your reason after this cause there is some really truth to does claims) one of them being the hero of the people naruto always wanted to be i will give that to naruto tho cause he is the reason everyone in the village is alive (damn this is getting long this may just be the most i have ever written on youtube). the war arc is just were the benefits of having kurama become the most in the whole series literally gaves the power to become the great thing his side has to winning the war, one benefit that can literally be hundreds if i decide to count each moment naruto helped the shinbo allies. kurama helped naruto save two kages and hundreds of ninjas in one move and that was just a clone boasted by kurama. kurama saved naruto, killer bee, might guy and kashi hatake from SIX TAILED BEAST BOMBS and bitch slap SIX TAILED BEASTS. made it possible that naruto did not die to madara when he showed up. the fox kept guy naruto and bee alive while being hit by A TEN TAILS TAILED BEAST BOMB LITERALLY THE KING TAIL BEAST BOMB. it made his sage mode stronger and easier to charge. the die father coming back to save all of the shinobi allies hell naruto save that same allies by giving them some of the fox's chakra. naruto beats otibi thanks to the nine tails. naruto died when the nine was taken from him so finally i negative in this war ar..............wait a minute naruto became god thanks to the nine tails killing his parents so do i take away the 11 years now cause kurama is fuck making up for that shit the fuck kurama just made up for all the fucking negatives naruto had in the series that were related to him naruto became a god thanks to kurama saved the world thanks to kurama and kurama keeping naruto alive made naruto become hokage at this point the poeple saying kurama was a fuck blessing was looking at the benefits vs the negatives are are not just said there are negatives the fat that your agruement is that we have not watch the series and there maybe a few that did not be looking at the war arc only they conclude that the nine tails was a fucking blessing if kid naruto can see the shit he can do now he would be sucking kurama's dick deepthroat style to get there faster. i do not even need to keep fucking score now when this one creature is the reason your fucking wife is not getting her pussy fucked everyday by some god pretty boy rapist livng on the fucking moon i think i need to here your side of the agruement because i right want to see if you can break all this down( watch seth breaks all this down =-= if that happens my respect for him is going up to the god levels).
yea but he was an UZumaki and reincarnation of the son of God that created the Tail beast, so obviously he would have the Talent to not die from said beast and even if he dies he gets brought back to life by said God. do you read naruto bro. remove everything naruto was handed be it Kurama, Talents of Bloodline, Destiny, Reincarnation and naruto would be a worse ninja than Iruka and high chances he would have never even become a ninja in the first place. if it was not for Kurama he would of died of Poisoning in wave arc would of lost to Kiba would of lost to neji would of lost to sasuke would of lost to everyone because now he cant use Kage bunshin would of never master rasengan because no one heals that fast Would of died to Kabuto Would of never learned Wind style Rasenshurikken because he cant use 10,0000s of clone would of never master Sage mode because even someone like Jiraiya who was trained by 3rd Hokage never mastered it, without relying on his Blood talent and destiny and reincarnation a normal joe would never master Sage mode, i dont see tsunade even as a Senju mastering it.
@@emastermet609 The video completely ignored that Plague wasn't talking from a social POV, but from a combat POV. Plague at no point argued Naruto had to overcome emotional struggles, but this entire video is based around that concept. I'm really confused as to what you're saying, could you elaborate?
@@emastermet609 Rock Lee had parents, friends and a great teacher. Naruto had Kurama (one of the most powerful beings on the planet), Uzumaki genetics, was the Child of Prophecy, the reincarnation of a demi-god. was taught by the future Hokage (Kakashi, who was himself a child prodigy) and another person who was Hokage material (Jiraiya). You seem incredibly hostile, if you can't respond in a respectful manner, I'm not going to bother responding to this trolling.
I sense a disturbing lack of Iruka in this video. Sure he wasn‘t in that many episodes as far as I‘ve seen but he was still an important Person to Naruto and even protected him after naruto learned the whole shadow clone thing. At least a mention would have been nice. Other than that great vid and the topic of depression is something that only few people actually want to disscuss so it‘s great you took the oportunity!
He didnt until he caught naruto painting the hokage's faces and heard his mutterings about there was no one to go home to also till sandaime talked to him about naruto to see him as child and not as a jinchurriki or a demon.
@@cadambankannan5419 yeah but you can't really blame iruka, the nine tails killed his parents when he was a kid + everyone in the village viewed naruto as beings the nine tails so why wouldn't iruka also think that way and see him as the one who killed his parents
I think when people talk about underdog's they have to remember it is a story, there is a time where they are an underdog, and a time where they have overcome whatever obstacle was in their way. For Lee, as a kid, he couldn't use ninjutsu or genjutsu, and people said he couldn't be a ninja, that's why he was an underdog. After somehow passing the graduation exam and becoming a ninja, he trains hard and learns different techniques such as the lotus and eight gates to help him accomplish his dream. He fights Gaara proving that he can be a ninja using only taijutsu. I would say that is when his underdog story ends, as people now realize that he is a strong ninja with only his taijutsu. For Naruto, he is a pretty bad at the academy and can't even do a clone jutsu. He then learns the shadow clone jutsu, which he is able to use a lot with his immense chakra (only ability really given to him imo). He then trains really hard learning techniques such as the rasengan, rasenshuriken, and sage mode. The Pain arc is when Naruto's underdog story ends, as he is now acknowledged by the village and seen as a strong ninja. Taking it even farther however, during the war, he works hard to build a friendship with Kurama and use Kurama Chakra mode. So I think it is important to remember that both these characters had disadvantages that prevented them from becoming strong ninja (Lee only using taijutsu and Naruto being pretty bad at everything and not having anyone there for him). However both these characters worked hard to become stronger (Both Lee and Naruto learned different techniques to get stronger). People then start to acknowledge them, and I would say acknowledgment is when you stop being an underdog, because an underdog is someone who is seen as weak by other people. Once both characters have been acknowledged, they are taken much more seriously as ninja by their peers, and therefore cannot be seen as underdogs anymore, but just because they are no longer underdogs, doesn't mean they never were.
Your definition of underdog is "someone that is expected to fail by others" and by that definition, Naruto definitely was an underdog. But a lot of people take is as a "someone who is at a disadvantage" which Naruto definitely didn't. I think a lot of people argue entirely different things due to never defining what they actually mean by Underdog.
@@jaydengray4015 Yes and therefore was treated like a monster by the villagers and the threat that one day might go berserk and kill all his friends. You're acting like Kurama was such a blessing to have.
@A Johnson I don't think you understand what the whole destiney thing was about. The reason Naruto grew from underdog to hero was because of his willpower and hardwork. the reason he had so much willpower and hardwork was because of reincarnation yes that's true, but that doesn't discredit Naruto. Lets look at how we view willpower/motivation/hardwork, even though willpower and motivation is largely based n genetics(or reincarnation) people view willpower and hardwork as things anyone can have this is proven by the fact that you believe lee is/was a "real" underdog. I could argue that lee was destined to be great because his genetics blessed him with motivation and willpower. The thing is if you believe that you can do something it proves that you have the genetics and it proves that you wil be great. if you don't believe that you can do something it proves that you weren't blessed with willpower/motivation and that you won't be great. So bassicaly being able to work hard is a talent. Naruto and lee believed in themselfs wich proved that they are the reincarnation of ashura/have the genetics if they didn't believe in themself it would prove that they aren't the reincarnation of ashura/have the genetics. The inspiring thing about naruto here is that it tells you that if you work hard you will be the reincarnation of ashura, that you can choose your destiney that you can choose to be the reincarnation of ashura. Of course you can't actually choose since you being ashura's reincarnation is predetermined and if you are ashura's reincarnation it's also predetermined that you will chose to believe in yourself. So the big choice is actually not a choice but it definetely feels like one and looking at it like it's a choice will result in you picking the right answer (hard work) and being the reincarnation of ashura.
@@kami_svn4135 they like to constantly compare the chimera ant arc to other shonen arcs and call other shonen arcs trash/shit, when in fact they are hypocritical by comparing something that was written over a span of 10 fucking years to weekly shonen arcs
You’re talking about the emotional side of things. Naruto was an underdog in that sense. He’s definitely not an underdog in terms of power or hard work! The only fight he has won by himself without anyone else or kyubbi involvement in the ENTIRE series is the chunin fight where he farted on kiba.
@Among Yu yes. Naruto would have still learned Sage mode, and Minato and Kushina could have trained him in Fuinjutsu Added to it is He now has an amazing control of chakra(which was bad in the show due to Kurama's chakra interfering through the seal)
You seem to forget that while Naruto is introduced as friendless and alone, the series keeps retconning it until Naruto had multiple friends (even if their parents didn't like him) and apparently hung and out pulled pranks with Kiba, Shikamaru, and Chouji. So he wasn't alone. He wasn't a talentless nobody. And even if Kurama hated Naruto and only saved him to save himself (until it was eventually retconned that Kurama won't die if Naruto does), Kurama's power still saves Naruto's ass in every major fight since Haku. And while Naruto does take to training on screen, we're told that he's constantly training in his downtime, yet if he's not trying to learn a new move someone showed him, he's shown just goofing off rather than actually training (particularly flashbacks or before the Chunin Exam) The only reason Naruto got flak at the start is everyone in the village forgot (aka, Kishimoto hadn't retconned it yet) that his last name is Uzumaki, the same as the Hokage's wife whom Naruto is a physical clone of. Would people worship him because he's the fourth's son? I don't know. But it's still relevant.
@@SenSen130 First, ALMOST. As in, he still didn't win without Kurama. Second, remember that Pain's strongest body was out of commission when Naruto showed up due to using his super gravity move.
@@MurasakiTsukimaru Almost but.....i think even someone like kakshi wouldnt be able to beat a tailed beast...so using a bit of the 9 tails chakra isnt that bad
@@SenSen130 The only example I can think of is Naruto vs Kiba, because Naruto had that extra seal on him making so he couldn't use Kurama's power (or most of his own).
Pretty sure I got trapped in an endless comment purgatory the last time I brought up this subject (which was ironically on Clyde's Sasuke video) so I'm going to do the smart thing here and not say anything...oh screw it in for a penny in for a pounding by the fanbase. I used to think the Naruto underdog premise was complete BS and that part 2 with it's reincarnation/prophecy spiel kind of retroactively shat on that premise. But as Seth (and someone from the aforementioned comment purgatory) correctly points out it doesn't actually take away from the emotional battles Naruto undergoes. Yes Naruto has the potential to be practically Ninja Jesus but it doesn't change the fact he starts out as an Underdog and that his potential had to actually be honed through training and practice thus Naruto still falls into the 'underdog working his way up' category. While Part 2 does kind of poo on the underdog premise a little it doesn't do so to the extent Naruto's character is completely divorced from the underdog character arc and he always retains a feeling of character agency rather than being the pawn of fate/destiny. Jesus that got more wordy than I intended, well thanks for reading to anyone who did. Feel free to agree or disagree just keep it chill.
Everyone has to work their way up, not just Naruto; not being the best doesn't make you an underdog. Unless you refer to him not being the strongest at the start, he isn't an underdog.
But he IS the pawn of destiny. That and the reincarnation stuff means not only is it inevitable that we would of won but even if he magicly dies, he just reincarnated and does it again. Infinite tries kinda makes it all meaningless
Whoa responses blew up. Okay so I'm not feeling up to dragging out a full on discussion on this (not again) so I'll just give a long ass response that covers it all. Underdog can either be defined as a person who has little status in society or a competitor thought to have little chance of winning a fight or contest. Seeing as both apply to Naruto I fail to see what's so hard to understand here. And no don't give the 'he had Kurama' spiel as Clyde in this video addresses why that's a complete non-argument. As for the prophecy thing, it was vague as hell and went from being about Nagato, to being about Naruto to being about both of them and also the prophecy does not really invalidate Naruto's agency as he has his own reasons for doing what he does in the Pain arc completely unrelated to that prophecy. Then there's the reincarnation/transmigrant plot point which is literally just Ashura and Indra lobbing off their chakra to their descendants and that's it. Sure the existence of the chakra plays a role but even Naruto flat out tells Hagoromo he's not Ashura and Sasuke is not Indra. Having globs of your ancestor's chakra sticking to you is hardly enough to start spouting the 'Neji is right' nonsense. Especially considering most people just assume there's never been an evil Ashura reincarnate or a nice Indra one. Plus the actual character of Neji goes on to prove his own philosophy wrong so yeah don't be feeding me that Neji is right stuff. There may be destiny in Naruto but if there is it certainly doesn't seem to be impermeable. Naruto had nothing to begin with and worked his way up to the top with training and determination. You can still be an underdog even if you have crazy potential. Being an Underdog is not purely about how strong you are.
Your love for this series really shines through in this video, and it is great that you have gotten so much value out of it, but I think you missed the point of Plagueofgripes' video. Plague usually targets the writing/writer/execution of the story, not so much the story itself. In context of his story, Naruto goes through horrible circumstances that would break most people. I'm not going to refute that. But when you zoom out and view the story at its most base parts Kishimoto undercuts Naruto's credibility as a start-from-nothing-and-drive-for-the-stars protagonist by continuously giving him power boosts inherent to his birth. I'd argue that Kurama's power alone doesn’t break Kishimoto's intentions because of how he gets Naruto ostracized, but then it's revealed that Naruto's descended from a very strong bloodline, and then it’s revealed that he's a reincarnation of one of the mightiest beings to ever walk the land (underdog though said being might have been at the time of its existence). Regardless of how tragic the circumstances around these qualities are, they still provide immense power that cannot be replicated because he was born with them. (And no, Naruto technically was not born with Kurama, but he might as well have been considering his parents were the leaders of the village and his Uzumaki bloodline setting him or a hypothetical sibling up to be an eventual heir as jinchuriki anyway). TL;DR Plague's arguing that an author shouldn't give their underdog lineage-based super boosts and then make them the crux of how the protagonist achieves their goal if the author wants to maintain a thematically-consistent/coherent underdog story. The Naruto series was a convenient vehicle to use as demonstration. Naruto has several writing flaws like any other series, but that does not diminish whatever joy and messages the individual reader receives from it. Thanks for reading.
The inly powers inherent to his birth are the chains which broke when he was fighting kurama and asura reincarnation which doesn't even help him with being and being an outcast since he can't just activate it regularly either. Also constant? Naruto truly gets only one power up out of nowhere and that's asura form. Plauge also said there was no drawback which hilarious because kurama literally feeds off naruto negative emotions to the point where kurama almost completely takes over. In fact after the fight over Orchimaru his skin turns red and and needs to get healed by sakura. Like c'mon.
@@keodiozubu8670 Exactly and that transformation rendered him useless further during that mission. He couldn't jump on trees or simply run and was basically powerless in front of Sasuke because of that transformation.
Naruto is literally the reincarnation of a child of God, had a 2 legendary ninjas as teachers, has a demon inside of him that wouldn't allow him to die regardless of the circumstance (and also helped him win literally 90% of his main fights that he would have lost, whether Kurama liked him or not), had a prodigy of a father and a chakra rich bloodline from his mother, had constant competition with another prodigy of a ninja as they were teammates, and had the ability to literally talk his opponents into agreeing with his world view. Sure he had no parents, sure he had to work hard to learn safe mode, and sure he had to fight his best friend twice to what could have easily been his death, but he also had what amounts to a zenkai boost ALMOST EVERY TIME DUE TO KURAMA. Rock Lee lost his dad. Has ZERO ninjutsu or genjustu ability, has mastered 6 gates (4 more than even the prodigy Kakashi), had Neji ridicule him relentlessly (even more so than Sasuke did to Naruto), had his leg and arm tore to shreds, had to go through a surgery that easily could have killed him. Naruto could be counted as an emotional underdog for some time, but that goes away towards the end of OG Naruto's chunin exams. Lee is the underdog the entire time. He's been through struggles just as bad as Naruto and overcame all of them to stand toe to toe with literally some of the best ninja the series has ever seen in each of his age demographics.
@@userb72 That's not an argument since Rock Lee and Naruto BOTH made the decision to become ninjas as kids. Naruto didn't get told "Hey, you have to become a ninja because rogue ninjas are going to take your ass." They both made the voluntary choice as kids without knowledge of what their futures would become
being the reincarnation and the hokages son didn't give him any advantages. He was never destined for greatness, he was never destined to be the savior, and he was never destined to be strong. The only thing he was destined for was to die by his best friend or to kill his best friend. Being the son of a powerful leader, having a powerful beast inside of him, and being a reincarnation of a powerful being doesn't have anything to do with it. If it did then he would've been a prodigy, someone who could achieve anything without training. Which obviously didn't even happened early on. The so6p even said that having exceptional parents doesn't mean he will be exceptional as well. The only advantage he had in early part one was having more chakra than everyone else
I dont usually do comments on videos cause its a pain, but imma throw my 2 cents (roughly about 1 million yen for you weebs) into it. I dont think any person who actually watched/Read Maruta thinks he didnt work hard. Naruto was bailed out of any dangerous loss not only cause Kurama wanted his body, but to also keep save his own life. That being said, Naruto doesnt really "work hard" like most people would have to. Idk if its from the Fox, His Uzimake blood, or being the son of Jesus, but he has a chakra well that is so deep that even Kakashi points it out while he is making the shuriken. His definition of working hard is like a genius trying to learn something. He picks up thing and learns them at incredible rates. Saying that its just cause he put his mind to it would imply thats all any one would have to do. In fact he learned the shadow clone in a few hours, then as an untrained kid he maruta made like a hundred of him and beat up a guy who should have been way beyond his pay grade. The point of Plagues video wasnt to say Nartuo never worked hard, but I think it was to point out the fact that the series was about him rising above by working hard, yet he is given so much more advantages then anyone else. He is more over powered then even the Sharingan and Hashirama cells by the end of the series, not cause of hard work, but cause a three eyed space man awakened his jesus powers and cause he made friends with all the beasts. No other person in the series gets more power from friendship. The point of saying "hard work is stronger then natural skill" is kind of a moot point when you hard work is bolstered by genetic advantages or by the fox (regardless of it taking him over). Naruto rising above his depression is a good point, as someone who went through depression in the past it is hard to go through. Maybe i'm miss remembering but he seemingly got over his depression pretty early in the series as he began to make friends. Personally, and this is just my opinion, I think that Naruto stopped being an underdog story once he hit shippuden. Maruta feels more like a shonen 「Heroes Journey」. Anyways, this was more then I should have typed cause i dont even like Maruta that much. Like ive said a few time, just my opinion. Feel free to disagree, having your own take on a series is good, you shouldnt let Clyde or Plauge decide your opinions you should form your own through reading and research. With that Im signing off ~God Speed 「Editorial Note」If anyone for some reason actually read this and notice I called Naruto Maruta through out, its cause Maruta is a hentai artist and every time I see their name or naruto I think of the other one. Just a little bit of fun I was having splicing it it.
@@blazingexil4003 Sure, but it was circumstantial. Only because he didn't know who he was, and probably had massive insecurity issues from being treated like an outcast.
@@mikemorro140 He was a guy with extreme potential, who had to discover his worth and connect with the people who could help help fulfill his potential. I guess that is an underdog, just not the best example of one. Rock Lee, for example, is an underdog.
He is the descendent of the sage of six paths and the first hokage, related to the second hokage and fifth hokage and is also the son of the fourth hokage plus is the jinchuriki of the strongest tailed beast he is an UNDERDOG
Isn't everyone (with chakra) a descendant of So6p? I didn't know he was related to hashirama, wasn't he just related to his wife? Minato's strength seemed to come from his studying, something naruto didn't really do but he's actually kind of smart, or at least bright, despite not being knowledgeable. Kurama is op tho
A point no one has brought up: Naruto's parents were OP. He always had the potential -- Kushina and the Uzumaki clan always had heaps of chakra reserves. So did Minato. I don't think he is as much of an underdog as it seems.
Minato didn't have enormous chakra reserves as far as I know, but Minato was also a natural talent. So you have naturally talented father and bloodline blessed mother and now you try to tell me their kid is an underdog when he inherited both of those traits... lol
This is a joke. Naruto was not an underdog at least as a ninja in this story but as an individual on a personal level he most definently is an underdog.
He sucked in the academy, he was an underdog, and he didn’t have parents to raise and help train him, he was an underdog as a ninja all the way up till shippuden besides his crazy feats from the nine tailed fox
He actually did want to learn more techniques like genjutsu for example, but jiraiya was like nah and made him sharpen techniques that he already knows into much stronger ones
Is this even serious ? Like it does not matter if Kurama was a shitty power up... it was still something that made Naruto special lol... He literally survived to Haku due to Kurama, he survived to Orochimaru due to Kurama, he survived against Neji due to Kurama and against Sasuke and so on... Even if Kurama didn't like Naruto he did help him a lot either way. the guy literally got free power ups as well... he had a lot more chakra due to the Kyubi Chakra, and he also got increased healing... like Sasuke basically destroyed his lungs and he healed lol
"He literally survived to Haku due to Kurama" Totally. Never mind that Haku was only a threat because he was born with a powerful kekkei genkai, and Zabuza himself admitted that Haku would become far stronger than he is, so he too was "special"... "he survived to Orochimaru due to Kurama" Absolutely right. Never mind that Orochimaru was not only a grown man holding back while bullying a bunch of kids, but quite possibly the single smartest character in the entire series, who not only easily sealed away Kurama's chakra, stripping Naruto of what made him "special", but intentionally sealed it away in such a way that it imbalanced Naruto's own chakra flow, forcing the kid to finish the second trial, and the elimination round with his abilities severely crippled... "he survived against Neji due to Kurama" Right on point. Never mind, that Neji himself was a genius, who taught himself not one, but two secret techniques, that were strictly only passed down in main branch of the family. Never mind, that Neji's Byakugan is stated to be the strongest of everyone in the Hyuga clan... "against Sasuke" Right. Never mind that Sasuke has one of the most broken Kekkeia Genkai in the series, or that at the time he was given a "free" power-up in the form of the Curse Mark... "he had a lot more chakra due to the Kyubi Chakra" Naruto's own chakra was actually hampered by having to keep Kurama's chakra at bay... "Sasuke basically destroyed his lungs and he healed" Riiiight. It's not like Killer Bee did the same to Sasuke later on, and Sasuke was healed by someone, whom Sasuke promised to keep at bay, so that he would not slaughter everyone at sight... oh wait...
@@Verebazs And your point is? Just because other people is special, does not change the fact that Naruto was special and survived stuff he would not survive due to Kurama? Like my argument is not that only Naruto was special in the World, the point is that he got everything he could due to Kurama lol May be analyze the comment instead of arguing something I never said or tried to say lol
@@Verebazs Listen, Plague wasn't only calling Naruto a power-up, handjob getting hypocrite but almost every character in the show. They all have something "special" like different retarded sets of eyes and stupid fucking chakra animals stuck up their assholes.
@@finnish_hunter ??? So your defense of his ridiculous sh*ttake, is that he was having a problem with every fantasy aspect...OF A FANTASY SERIES? Are you serious?
@@Verebazs Your argument is so garbage It's painful responding to it. You basically proved that Naruto is the most privileged and overpowered Orangutan in the show because he was born with a gift that overpowers all the other genetically advantaged characters; therefore proving that Naruto is a hypocrite who knows nothing about hardwork. He only survived because of the Nine Tail Fox. Mind you, Plague argument mainly revolved around the first part of the series and not strictly Shippuden (which is the theme that this coper CZcamsr talked about; making your "circumstances" [i.e alien reincarnation, primal demon beast sealed, amped bloodline gifts] into "advantages"). Classic Naruto before Shippuden was a hypocritical writing failure revolving around the theme of "hard work Vs talent". Your argument is destroyed. Didn't take much time to be honest. Try harder next time cupcake. ✌️🤫😏😴 easy.
Everyone told Rock lee to just give up, because he was talentless. While in narutos case everyone just ignored him, basicly the whole world tried to tell him to give up. But he kept pushing nonetheless. And while the 8 gates may be on par with madara, it costs your own life which doesn't sound like a good trade of to me.
kurama before he liked naruto was trying to take over his body, everyone hated naruto for having a monster trapped inside him, you forget that everyone told naruto he couldnt be hokage, naruto's parents died forcing him to live alone in solitude, had no people to support him unlike rock lee who had a fantastic mentor who never gave up on him and a team/rivals to help push him, naruto was an underdog.
Nice guy people didn’t just ignore naruto he was hated by his entire village people looked at him with animosity because of something that was forced upon him and he also didn’t know at all until he was a Genin imagine being a 5 year old have people treat you like a piece of shit and you not knowing why it would make you hate everything and the fact that naruto despite this battle his way to becoming the most loved person in the village and the thing is even though after the pain arc he was the village hero he was still misunderstood as no one knew his hardships up until the war where ino’s mind jutsu connected everyone that naruto has given chakra and they looked into his memories and saw just how sad and lonely he was and the burdens he had to carry meanwhile yea lee was told that he was talentless but at least no one looked at him like they wanted to kill him or have the threat of the most powerful shinobi in the world murder him but don’t worry naruto had everything handed to him yea your right and cause your a bot I’ll point out that sarcasm so fuck outta here dumbass
@@MajorLawliet As someone that also watched the video we are currently challenging anyone to debate us on these positions in Clydes discord. If you actually want to throw hands on this I'll gladly body you, Here: discordapp.com/invite/nzQZXek
During his fight with Neji at chunin exams there was a scene where he tap in nine tail fox power without going berserk that shocked everybody even the third Hokage.
That was just kurama leaking out his chakra to weaken the seal. More chakra - more berserk. It's consistent too because the nine tails is way stronger than the one tail so Naruto didn't need much to take him out, or summon a frog or uppercut neji. As oppose to fighting sasuke or taking on haku. Summoning
Pretty sure that was the real point of the training. Why train Naruto is a technique that probably is ilegal in the exams? (Seriously, I don't think summoning a gigant frog on the battlefield will get you points as chunnin outside of outstanding skill).
@@kellyjohana516 The whole point of the Chuunin exam was to show off skill and tech as a ninja. So ppl hire you for missions. having a summon plus other skills would make him favorable in missions that require a heavy handed tactic.
@@lonesome1689 More like him having Kurama bail him out of certain situations came at the cost of social ostracization which resulted in a critical lack of attention on his ninja ability resulting in him being ranked the lowest in his graduating class, but keep up the strawman! It’s what you Naruto haters do best!
This is a strawman argument and the main theme of naruto isn't hardwork over talent. Every so called bailing out by Kurama came with a cost. You're so focused on the wrong theme. Besides hardwork isn't some linear thing. Hard work is hardwork no matter what. You're focusing solely on combat and nothing else. To say Naruto didn't work hard thought the series is a blatant lie and disregard for everything. You Naruto haters and your narrow minded views on things. All you lot do is regurgitate what you hear without every thinking about it. Y'all some NPCS for real.
Weirdly enough I was talking to my friend about Naruto and he actually didn't like it. He thought Minato took away from Naruto as it was as though he didn't make it on his own but just another version of his father, doesn't help he also had the 9 tails
Naruto did not know who his father was until his teenage years. Everything until that meeting when Naruto was about to remove the seal, he did without Minato. Of course, Minato's and Kushina's genes were pretty helpful. But that is a sorry excuse of why not to like Naruto. He did it on his own, he surpassed Minato when he was like what, 16? He perfected the Rasengan, he mastered Sennin Mode, perfected KCM.
Nah, Gohan is more of a clone of Goku, he literally stole / copies his dad's attacks and fighting style. Tje only thing Naruto and Minato have in common fighting wise is that they both can use the Rasengan, except Naruto created more advanced versions of the Jutsu.
@@davora8954 Gohan was *taught* those by both his Father and his Father's Best Friend and even those moves *from his Father* are copied. *Master Roshi taught Goku the Kamehameha Wave.* *King Kai taught Goku the Kaioken.* The fuck are you even talking about???
lets not forget he had charkra because of the nine tails, he never knew what charkra was nor how it worked even tho he went to school for it. not for Kurama he would of died atleast 10x before the end of Naruto original series.
@@raizelshadez3122 well if he had kurama wasn't messing with his chakra control and he had both his parents to teach him jutsu he wouldn't even need kurama... His own chakra was 4 times greater tha kakashi's as genin. Kurama was more of a nuisance than assistance to naruto for most of the series
This. People forget Naruto only knew Shadow Clones because anything less than A-rank was hard for him. He had too much chakra and like no control. It’s like trying to do surgery with an axe.
@@raizelshadez3122 the kuruma seal stunted the growth of naruto and actually made him dumb. he could've been as strong and smart as minato if not for the seal
Yeah, and then in like what 2 years he is able to get it down pat. Nevermind that other people spend decades of their life trying to get the degree of chrakra control Naruto had before he was even 18. But then again not everyone can be trained by the white wolf and the Legendary Toad Sage. But yeah...total underdog.
There's no denying Naruto worked hard. He was even extremely talented as a child. I never got why he was always called a talentless loser. He had more experience fighting high level ninjas and using secret jutsus than most of the Ninja in the village even before the chunnin exam
I think the sad part of naruto is that he was so desperate to be loved he allowed all to use him. However I think his greatest issue is his laxness and laziness.
@@combatlightning9481 I'm just saying, Naruto worked harder than Lee. Guy is an argument but definitely Lee. A lot of people downplay Naruto for some reason, I just wanted to clear that up
This video is everything I've ever thought about naruto, the prophecy and more. The fact that people think naruto was handed everything is just ... Ludicrous. You know what happens when you have great physical potential and NOTHING else? You become gaara.
I don't fault people for having that opinion, but I fault them for having it blindly. I honestly think a lot of the people who think this barely watched/read Naruto or even didn't at all.
@@ducksoop.x I honestly feel the same way. I also feel like people who feel this way are only looking the shounen elements of naruto while completely disregarding the emotional elements of the story and how one impacts the other, hence my gaara comment.
Mel u know why they call a minority going from the hood to a 6 fig inc. A success story and not an underdog story? Because emotional journey is almost completely irrelevant in context. It doesn't matter that everyone i knew Was raped or killed, or the aggressor, if i had a decent standard of living and the equivalent of a full scholarship and a internship-to-hire program set up for me before I'm even born.
Your last sentence brought back the feels between naruto and gaara for me. Naruto understood gaara more than anyone else, he even went so far as to say that he could've become like gaara had he not have had people who showed up in his life a little later on. The fact that they're good friends to this day still warms my heart.
A demon that could have harmed him... except he was destined to tame that beast and all the other beasts which by extension gives him that powerup that would pretty much ensure he achieved his dream and garnered fame.... But you left that part out... kinda like you didn't pay attention to the story, which you've accused others of doing. In part 1, Naruto is an underdog, mostly. I can agree with that. But it didnt stop at part 1, now did it? The moment destiny/prophecy was introduced into the story, he stopped being an underdog. Period. It's not my fault, or the fault of others that part 2 undermined part 1. That's on the writer. You can call us "NPCs" if you want but this video is: -Fan of (insert anime) finds a criticism of a favored anime and dislikes the criticism. -Fan recaps the story, pointing out obvious stuff as a counter to the criticism as if the critic didn't know and take those obvious things into consideration. -Fan tries to say the critic didnt pay attention/understand/(insert bullshit here). -Fan resorts to name calling. In one video, you've literally done everything I've ever encountered when discussing this with people both irl and online. Might wanna look in a mirror before you throw shit at people.
You left out the part where he worked hard to achieve those things. Naruto is an underdog because he was expected to fail but didn't, it's really that simple. 'Destiny' is irrelevant, people who use that as an argument don't even understand the concept.
@@kristianperez4108 Rock Lee is more of an underdog than Naruto, no ninjutsu, no genjutsu.Naruto didn't have it the worst, Rock Lee also had no parents, just like Naruto.
@@dani09432 He's a more relatable one, at the very least. Whether or not one is better comes down to individual preference. Where'd you get that info about Lee's parents? I don't remember them ever being mentioned.
When an npc calls you an npc smh. 🤦🏻♂️ it seems like you think people are just listening to pog without forming their own opinions I’ve seen his video and I’ve watched the entire series of Naruto and I agree with pog on a lot of points I’m not saying Naruto didn’t struggle but he’s definitely not an underdog either. Having a sad back story doesn’t make a character an underdog yet you still say Naruto is an underdog because of his upbringing. Everyone knows Naruto had to train to achieve his power but he was still born with so many genetic advantages as well as made the Jinchuriki of the leaf village and trained by the best of the best that he can’t be classified as an underdog he has too many advantages from the start to be considered an underdog that’s the whole point plague of gripes was trying to make. Also Naruto didn’t master the Rasenshuriken he invented it.
@@I_Hate_Atom_Eve in a video that’s made to refute the points POG made. Yeah him clowning you about liking your own comment means he totally can’t formulate any refutation to those points. I bet you disliked his reply. You’re not even an NPC, they have more brain power than you.
@@yokaihorizon2931 But he didn't refute any of Plagues points did he now? He just talked about how Naruto is a underdog when he clearly is not. Plague made tons of points and he chose one and couldn't even refute that one, you Sir are a joke.
Yeah he becomes it not that he was it from the start. Minato could have become it. Nagato could have become it. Yahiko or konan could have become it but only naruto became it because he had ideals that would have suited to it. Not anybody else. And Nagato WAS a child of destiny except he lead the world to destruction untill his change of heart.
Sakura wasn't helping how during the Pain attack? She was literally in charge of the entire medical staff during the attack because neither Shizune nor Tsunade could take charge of it. She was the only other person qualified. She was doing her job as a medical ninja.
Her village was attacked. There are plenty of medical ninja, but non that can crush a rich with their fist. Yes, she might have as well did nothing. Its a Shonen Manga and she wasn't fighting.
@@Cyborg_Lenin Do you not know how to read? She was only one who could lead the medical personnel at that time. What part of that do you not understand? It was literally against the law for her to fight on the front lines as a medical without having mastered the Byakugou yet. Not everyone in Shounen stories have to be fighters either. Healers are just as important.
Kurama also - made him unable to make a normal clone, which makes him fails the class and also be the lowest skilled student in the class. Walking on water, trees all were also made much harder. Any jutsu was exponentially harder to learn because of how massive the chakra pools were from Kurama. Also made Sage learning much much harder because Kurama kept fucking with Naruto's chakra. Don't rule out convenient stuff just to prove your point. Naruto was trying to be killed by people because of kurama... but hey atleast kurama healed him.. how dumb is that
@@A_000 I don’t remember much of Naruto but if the fox messed up his clones then why was he able to make shadow clones so perfectly besides plot? Heck if I remember right he makes the absurd amount he does because of the fox energy in him.
@@theonewhouploadsnothing1704 So the more chakra you have, the harder the chakra control is. Normal clone jutsu is given to students because it has very very less chakra consumption, and so needs very little control. Makes sense to give that to students. But Naruto didn't have a normal students chakra. Because the amount of chakra he had meant he needed to have incredible ridiculous amounts of chakra control to pull it off. Reason why he fails a lot and comes deadlast in the class, because of student level jutsus he couldn't perform at all. P.S - Also why Rasengan took him years to master. The shadow clone jutsu is a jonin level jutsu because it consumes high amounts of chakra and needs very very little control. But in exchange you get solid clones.
Okay...and? Kurama taking control still gives him an ultra power boost and basically guarantees him the win, I'm not sure in what universe you can claim this isn't a cop out Also wdym moronic you can't go "Karama only helped naruto to weaken the seal" then go "if kurama let him die he'd get to respawn", it's contradictory...if anything that just proves kurama was willingly a cop out Again with this contradictory bullshit "naruto doesn't get shit handed to him" followed by "naruto is insanely talented and learnt the kage bushin in one day" Do I even need to watch the rest of the vid???
my thoughts exactly, after he made that point about naruto mastering the multi-shadow-clone jutsu in one day i just stopped watching and went to the comments 💀
having watched both videos, i'm sorry but i'm going to have to side with plague. once you find out about naruto's parents and all the power he has inherited from his bloodline, it no longer matters how hard he works or what he had to overcome. naruto becomes less of a character you can relate and becomes a case study of nature overcoming nurture, which entirely contradicts the theme of starting with nothing and earning what you have through determination and hard work. i appreciate the argument you make on why people should show more sympathy to naruto the planet buster (probably wasnt a good idea to end the video mentioning that), but that's not the issue plague was arguing
Naruto didn't inherit anything from his parents, not Minato's intelligence and certainly not whatever benefits the Uzumaki had (pretty sure large chakra reserves wasn't one but that is also because of Kurama so hard to tell how much of it was effected by him. It was also a double-edged sword as it made his control shit.) Every fight he ever had he eventually won only by using Kurama's chakra.
@@TehSpessPiret Didn't watch the video but if that was the point I'd have to disagree. I was only replying to the part of your comment where you said he inherited all this so called power from his bloodline when he didn't inherit anything. Actually, the only thing he "inherited" was Kurama being sealed inside him.
@@SpaceAustralia Didn't he? Even if you want to say he didn't "inherit" anything from his parents, who his parents were allowed him the opportunity to train with the best ninja in the village. You think Jiraiya's training Kiba or TenTen just cause? Nepotism does play a role in Naruto getting to were he is, do you think he would still be as strong as he is if he only trained with Iruka? Or ended up on team Kurenai? Do you think he would have been Hokage?
Sauke had orochimaru's powerup. And for neji he only used the power to reopen the tenketsu not in the final blow which came from underground by tricking Neji.
@@cadambankannan5419 even if sasuke had a powerup that doesn't negate my point. Also, naruto fought for about 2 minutes with neji with a red chakra glow, which means that he was using Kurama's chakra.
@@cadambankannan5419 I agree that the final blow was all him, but without Kurama's chakra he wouldn't be able to get back to the fight and hold his own against Neji for so long.
Naruto, not just as a character but as a series in general, had a huge impact on me as an Anime fan and a person. The emotional moments, life lessons, and perspective bending ideologies are still top tier in my opinion. Even with the admitted flaws of the series. I had a pretty bad childhood plagued with physical/mental/emotional abuse, a history of mental health issues that spawned from that trauma, addiction in later years, and grew up in a lower class neighborhood. Naruto himself isn't even in my top 5 favorite characters from the series. But I always admired his character, empathy, and stone-like resolve in the face of such adversity and hardships. The very definition of an under-dog 💪🏻As a kid he honestly inspired me when I felt like I was alone and hurting to not give up. Without trying to sound dramatic with all this, I believed in him. A truly great and iconic Anime protagonist 💯 Thanks for reading my book... 😅🤣
One of the saddest moments is when Naruto started hyperventilating. It was so sad to see my favourite character struggling this hard after coming so far
After watching this the whole way through im pretty sure you and plague are coming at this from the wrong point Plague is arguing everytime naruto says that hard work beats nature talent that the show proves him wrong, being born better makes you better, while you are arguing naruto is an underdog because he had to struggle in life like anyone else if not more thanks to his so called destiny, neither of you are disproving the other just arguing on different wave lengths Plague is wrong is his assumption that the shows theme was hard work beats natural talent when its actually arguing prove those that would call you a failure wrong, and you're wrong because being the child of destiny never meant naruto's life would be easier just that he would be destined to fight indra's reincarnation to the death and while he did change that destiny it never dictated his strength if sasuke got stronger naruto had to get stronger and vice versa naruto could be both an underdog and have a destiny
@@sakkuyniron9756 dont see why you are thanking me, i can get used to plague pragmatic view of literature and media, i dont agree with his views on FF7R, but when it comes to anime fans defending something they like they tend to ignore the point they should be disproving and turning it into, "everybody suffers so why cant you understand the social commentary that helped me not feel like a loser growing up" like that isnt the point, i dont need your life story of why you relate to naruto just talk about why destiny doesnt matter
Naruto Uzumaki can’t just assume things because your on the other side of the argument. If it isn’t in the anime (canon) or manga it doesn’t exist it’s simple.
Fools Fury In the anime filler only. In canon they were at odds until the scroll thing. So for 12 years of Naruto’s life he only really had the ramen people and the Third. A lot of scenes of him having fun when young are filler and don’t count.
If you watch Naruto vs Neji, it explains everything on why he's an underdog. Something that especially gets me is when Naruto tells him that he started off with no natural talent, and that he failed the grad exam 3 times because of his now specialty, the shadow clone jutsu.
@@Coolguy-or8ex If Kurama's chakra was all Naruto had going for him, he still would've lost because he wouldn't be able to use the Shadow Clone jutsu to get the upper hand at the last possible moment. Remember, in the fallout of their last clash after Naruto powered up, Neji was still left standing, while the Naruto clone was pretty much done. If that had been Naruto himself and not his clone, he very well may have lost that fight as he might've been to exhausted to deliver that last punch to Neji.
I agree with this video, naruto really affected me it’s crazy because u watch this kid change so much and overcome his struggles despite all the hardships that he can’t escape, and this video just reminded me of all the lessons involved
7:05 Actually Clyde, even that is not the case because when Naruto was having his first conversation with Hagaromo, Hagaromo says something like "You didnt gain anything from your parents." or something like that just like Ashura (who Naruto is the reincarnation of) didnt gain anything from Hagaromo but Indra did. Which is something ppl also forgot.
Also in the 4th shinobi war the first hokage even claimed Naruto had even more chakara than himself, more than the guy who could take control of multiple jinchuriki, even without the nine tails chakara.
I think most people don't know what it means to be an underdog. Not having parents has nothing to do with being an underdog, Sauske had everyone taken from him, and being the last of his kind, yet he was seen as the best in the school and the one to beat, which means the opposite of an underdog.
@@christianpain7380 he had uzumaki chakra reserve and a tailed beast and he was gifted ashura powers that no one else can get through hard work except him For example what does Rock Lee has that no one else can get through hard work? Nothing he is an underdog without any special powers or tailed beast or special eyes and everyone can get the iner gates if they train hard enough
He was not depressed, sad but not depressed. Depression is characterized by a persistent depressed mood and lack of interest in almost everything. Naruto was the exact opposite he was highly motivated and expressed extreme interest in becoming Hokage. Stop throwing that word around, he sad sometimes but not depressed.
@@theblackevapilot8096 yes I do but again they still have the symptoms of depression. Meaning no motivation people with smiling depression appear to be motivated but are not. Naruto doesn’t appear to be motivated, he is, unless he is pulling the greatest act ever. Smiling depression is a mask but Naruto is not really wearing one his outlook is always an optimistic he believes he can become hokage even when he was all alone and no one believed in him
Yes for the first part. Definite no for the second part. It felt like in the first part he succeeded in spite of the plot being against him but in the second part he succeeded because the plot way on his side.
B train thats because at that point most people had already started recognising him which was part of his goal in part 1 and started to get training with stronger people like Jiraiya. Part 1 was more about his starting as the underdog and working his way up and proving himself to others. Part 2 was when he had proved to most NOT ALL that he was capable things.
Gabz it has nothing to do with him proving himself. Let’s be honest Naruto got that extra special treatment. A underdog wouldn’t be deemed the child of prophecy. He had a unique cloak unlike killer bee. To top it off he got one of the most bs power ups towards the end.
@@btrain3559 Yeah, no. Maybe if u listened carefully, Naruto's life was shit and had nobody to comfort him. If u somehow think Lee is an underdog, u are just delusional. And complete bullshit, Madara had special treatment. He was fucking OP. Just stop. Plus, Boruto has more special treatment than his father. How did Naruto have any special treatment becuz plot doesn't matter. In fact, the plot itself makes him an underdog so, u are just wrong here.
@@sirmikalus9923 a reincarnation of a god is an underdog? Every single time he "proves" himself its a direct result of his gigantic chakra. Which is a direct result of Kurama. He was never an underdog.
The guy who took him out of his depression died to one of the very students who taught him. In his quest for revenge, he ended seeing one of the few people who was genuinely nice to him gets impaled in front of his eyes and was asked " do you hate me?" The demon fox who had been trying to take over his body for the past 16 years of his life (24/7) saw his oppurtunity and took it all while still bearing the weight of not being able to bring back Sasuke and sensing that Kakashi Sensei had also died from Pains attack.
as someone that has suppressed their emotions, has anxiety and may have depression it is such a good thing to see someone start this conversation in the anitube community.
You said so yourself, Kurama did assist Naruto, for the purpose of having his seal lifted. Regardless of his feelings, he gave Naruto the means to win where Naruto otherwise could not have won. This is the crux of the argument, Naruto does not win by his own hard work, he uses his born gifts (Kurama) and training from those who only saw potential in Naruto due to him possessing Kurama. Also note you mention the many "talents" he possesses due to his lineage, another point made in the gripes video. Yeah so there are points where Naruto does work hard, most of these are in the Shippuden arcs. Naruto's original characterization was as a delinquent who had no drive to learn but nonetheless wanted to become the Hokage. And then blah blah blah depression, that is not pertinent to the discussion as one's mental state is not relevant to evaluating their natural gifts. The reason Naruto is compared to Rock Lee is because Lee has NO NATURAL BORN GIFTS. All of Lee's feats are strictly due to his training. It all comes down to pedigree.
the fact that people think the 9 tails was a "talent" "destined power". it rarely acted as a help, rather it affected him mentally, if im correct the chakra rapidly damaged his body during jinchuriki mode. the kyuubi became his power, because naruto made it, through his own efforts, he turned the curse that threatened him and his friends into his power.
It is an insane advantage throughout the serie. Literally the reason why Naruto won all of his fights in the first part. Give you more endurance stamina accelerated regeneration more powerful chakra than pretty much everyone. It didn't start back fire until part 2 and even in part 2 Kurama us reason why he could have beat Pain.
@@George-jc3mt It is thanks to Kurama that he broke Pain' s black receivers injured and tired Pain to the point were he started spitting blood in his main body freed himself from the chibaku tensei (witch is almost impossible for a normal ninja as we saw later) and so on. He was stuck before that. Even Hinata intervention felt short. It's also thank to Minato's technic who allowed him to intervene while Naruto was losing control and put him back on the driver sit just in case Naruto didn t have enough help. So yes it is safe to say that if Naruto wasn't a jinchuriki he might have never won this fight.
@@zombie92110 It is also thanks to pain that he couldn't fully use sage mode and had to resort to tricks to increase sage mode time, ma and pa could have been sitting on his shoulders which wouldnt have let him out of sage mode. Pain caught Naruto while he was out of sage mode and actually trying to save Pa. All of this could have been prevented had Kurama not interfered with them. Plus Naruto's victory was also due to sealing back of Kurama
Police: Where do you live? Me: With my parents Police: Where do your parents live? Me: With me Police: Where do you all live? Me: Together Police: Where is your house? Me: Next to my neighbors house. Police: Where do your neighbors live? Me: Next to my house. Police: Where is your neighbors house located? Me: You won't believe me if I tell you... Police: TELL ME! Me: Next to my house!
your positives and negatives are very one sided, those characters had those traits at different points in series, therefore compering them as if they were all around at all times is misinforming.
Plague's main point was that Naruto was priviledged through his genetics and due to his inheritance as the 4th Hokage's son. Also Kurama may have used Naruto as a tool but that does not change the fact that indirectly he "saved" him from battles where he should either lose to or die. Also Naruto being "the child of prophecy" is a huge change in direction from the initial narrative of the story. Of course Naruto had to overcome a lot of struggles and I also agree that the narrative depicts clearly that the strength and wisdom of Naruto's character were major factors for his triumphs. However the narrative also depicts clearly that Naruto wasn't an everyday "normal child" due to genetics, inheritance and ancient prophecies.
12:56 I can’t believe you didn’t mention Iruku. If it weren’t for him Naruto would’ve taken the same path Sasuke & Gaara did. He would’ve been no different from the villains without him. Also you forgot Kakashi
Naruto was handed his special powers to him from bloodlines, but he still had to work for it, like Naruto couldn’t didn’t go into the Chunin exams with KCM or Toad Sage, he worked a FUCKTON for both (Especially these two)
Not gonna lie I kinda used to feel extremely stupid for being so touched by an anime that it drove me to tears. Because as you said people claim to relate but their struggles are often minimal compared. But I have suffered from depression, ptsd, mental issues, mental and physical abuse, foster care, etc. So I totally got how badly depression and abandonment can be an almost immovable hurdle no matter HOW talented or gifted you are. Depression does not care about potential or even about opportunities...it can devastate someone born with a silver spoon as mich as someone poor and having nothing.
The point of the video was supposed if he was an underdog, which he wasnt, he was literally given kurama, regardless on thier relationship is a major strenght to him, he literally stopped being "weak" during the zabuza ark which was like 20 episodes into the series
As you said he was destined for many things. He's the son of the 4th Hokage, reincarnation of the son of the sage, bearer of the 2nd most powerful tailed beast and so much more. Did he put in some work? Sure but is he even close to an underdog? Not even remotely close. Suffering some emotional trauma doesn't automatically make somebody an underdog. Oh and the 8 gates technique can fight off a 10tailed Madurawhen mastered but it kills the user after it's used. Can't really call that a positive.
"A person who has little status in society." is the type of underdog your going for but that's still a problem. By the time he knocked out Neji he had already earned his classmates respect, most of the villages respect and took down a tailed beast at 13. Rock Lee & Shikamaru were better in my opinion.
kmphysics it took him 13 years to finally be acknowledged by someone. Do you know what that means? 13 years of mental and emotional abuse, and 13 years of not knowing why that was happening. His very first sensei wanted no parts of him, and it wasn’t until he found Jiraiya that he finally had a parental figure in his life. 13 years of abuse and abandonment, being looked at for nothing more than the monster who attacked the village and killed the 4th hokage, at the most important time of your life, is more than enough to make you a underdog
Shikamaru is a genius. Lee had the best teacher in their group, his undivided attention and didn't need to overcome the same hardships or had the same goals as Naruto. It took Naruto to defeat a TB, put a kid back on track and save the village from annihilation to get respect. That is an underdog. Not even talking about the other missions: saving Sasuke from himself and bringing peace.
![Japan Doesn't Like Tien [DBG #1]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/42HNvl0e26I/mqdefault.jpg)
Bruh, even the Nine tails Chakra mode came as a struggle. Naruto literally had to fight Kurama to get it!
With Assistance from infinite Chakra that came from Reincarnation and Uzumaki chains his mother sealed in him
@@kilonzok7803 Kurama broke those chains. Without Naruto's own power from Sage Mode (Y'know, *hard work and training* ) the chains would have been useless.
Don't for get when Nine Tails Chakra bleed more into naruto. Naruto get flash of sher pain and blood shed crying of souls consumed by Kurama. Hatred, Lost, crys for help and death rings into naruto's heart as Kurama trys to take over multiple times
I've noticed all these really bad arguments have the most likes. Kinda sucks to see that the majority of people are too stupid to understand something like Naruto
To defeat kurama he used sage mode. And as we know sage mode can only be aquired by people born with high amounts of chakra. Also he used the chains kekkai genkai of his mom to get kurama
I remember one scene when Naruto as a kid was looking at some masks and shopkeeper just snapped at him, pushed him and then threw the mask at him... Naruto got up, picked up the mask and ran away.....that scene mad me cry
I remember that scene too...sad.
That was the only scene that actually made me tear up
A moment that nearly nobody talks about is when Guy tells Lee that If he died during his operation he will not be a ninja anymore
Shadowedghost that episode was in Shippuuden it was a filler episode but like u said that was sad
Imagine you're already depressed and watching that at midnight ...what would happen.. happened to me...and I can't even describe it...
I just like how he punched his dad when he found out what he did
He was in the wrong and right for that
Minato saved the whole leaf doing that but also put his sons reputation underground and it damaged Naruto mentally
@@deadheaddredd nah, Minato didn't have to die. He didn't use sage mode, but that would've ended the series before it even began
@@javianbrown8627 He didn't have time to sit down and fricking meditate while his wife is getting tortured to death
@@nasimjahan5683 meditate? Have you seen how quickly he can enter sage mode? It took him like 3 seconds. Fact of the matter is if he did the series wouldn't have happened. That's the problem with trying to juggle powerful characters and while having them be relevant in the future when lots of time has passed and everyone else is also more powerful
@@nasimjahan5683 Minato is a perfect sage, he blinks and he's in Sage Mode, on top of that Minato can use shadow clones.
I'm kinda sad you didn't bring up the Genjutsu Itachi put Naruto through. How he just started to break down as all of his stresses (at the time of the series) appeared to him as avatars on different parts of his body. Sasuke appearing talking about how badly he wished he killed him, Sakura scolding him for not bringing back Sasuke, Kakashi calling him a disappointment, Gaara telling Naruto how alone he is and how he wishes he could be happy like Naruto, etc.
That shit was fucked up.
Exactly as I say an emotional underdog not physical
@@dio1651 explain
@@Mouseman358 u didn't see the video or what
wait kakashi said naruto was a disappointment? When?
@@argon2076 in the genjutsu Itachi had on naruto in their second fight
Kakashi finally training Naruto for once🤣🤣
Remember when he wanted Naruto to train with Ebisu. He was a terrible sensei in part one Naruto always favouring Sasuke.
In the manga Jiraiya requested him to not train Naruto
HofSaiyanjin at what point tho cause I’m the anime he doesn’t say that except for when naruto leaves with him and when they were preparing for the chunin exams
lil vro vro It’s after Naruto defeated Gaara, but he didn’t take him on as a student until Naruto showed Jiraiya his potential, and when he found out about organization in the Akatsuki. Kakashi still heavily chose Sasuke over Naruto even before that.
Eric Dupree oh thanks for that
That's because he was fighting Gaara. Gaara was a bigger threat and Neji would've have killed Naruto if he got the chance.
Naruto is one of those that hide his depression behind his smiles, while on the inside he is hurting on such a deep level. He has experienced so much pain, which is why he can empathize with other people's suffering. This is also why he feels so strongly about wanting to help everyone. He wants to make sure nobody suffers the same pain he did, which is why he works so hard. At least, that is how I understood his motivations.
Facts
bitchless behavior
He gives some insight on that when he spoke with Hinata.
2:06 what about Ichiraku Ramen guy?
EXACTLY
And if I remember right choji and shikamaru were also nice to him and there parents weren’t rude to him
@@jacksonunknown2587 Yeah, Shikamaru and Choji were pretty chill with Naruto... I remember that Shikamaru was quite confused about everyone hating Naruto's guts lol.
@@jacksonunknown2587
Yeah they were relatively pleasant to him, but but like the rest of the adults their parents forbid them from interacting with him due to their fear of the fox, the kids just did with their parents told them.
Also fun fact, if you check the first chapter of the manga sometime after Naruto steals the scroll, you can see a bunch adult shinobi declaring that Naruto should be killed.... and Chouji's father is among them.
Jackson unknown2 also in a flashback part of an episode (might have been filler) naruto was playing with kiba (shikamaru and Choji too)
I don’t think anyone who actually watched the series would claim that Naruto had it easy or that he didn’t have to work incredibly hard, he obviously did, but the things he eventually goes on to accomplish could never, ever be achieved by a normal person no matter how hard they worked, which still contradicts the supposed moral of the show.
Minato, Might Guy, and kakashi are all characters who weren't born with special birth powers and are all near around his lvl.
And you can become a jinjurikee by sealing one inside yourself, which plenty of characters who weren't born with super special powers can do.
@@ibstummyhurt8057 i agree about guy but minato and kakashi? Nah. Both of them were the prodigy genius and not losers
Naruto Uzumaki theme is Cooperation where he achieves power when someone helps him....Tailed Beasts during Madara and Kaguya and the allied forces showed this during the tug of war extracting the beasts from Obito.....and countless other times that Naruto needed help...........the whole theme of the Naruto series is the cycle of hatred not hard work.
Not rlly💀💀💀
Yes Naruto worked hard and trained hard. And had to experience many emotional losses and dilemmas. He had a tough life. (And Hinata loves him very very much despite everything...?) Hence, he is the underdog.
That's kind of what I got from the video. There isn't any concrete argument or breakdown, especially of PlagueOfGripe's video which you claim will 'debunk'. For instance, you cherry-picked some negatives and positives regarding Lee and Naruto but it doesn't serve any meaning in comparisons. Why don't you peg Lee's fashion sense down to as negatives. Or any of Naruto's bloodline gifts as positives. Lee had supportive teammates. I guess Naruto never had anyone supportive in his life. Yeah the gate technique is really powerful isn't it, if you ignore the self harming side effects. Put that down as a positive.
Its really easy to list things down when you have no clear directives. You can make anyone the underdog, even Madara if you frame it that way. It's ok to admit Naruto has some clear advantages over his peers. It doesn't cheapen any other emotional story line that you enjoy personally. Don't call people 'NPCs' when you're presenting such a skewed and hastily put together argument.
I'm sorry you had to take time to comment this since he won't answer to valid criticism. Unless it's some comment jerking him and his video off he won't bother since he knows he will lose the argument.
How did Naruto worked hard and trained hard if he doesnt know even the basics of the basics which is the word "chakra"? You may defend it by saying "Well he has no friends because everyone is afraid of him thus doesnt want to get close to him and therefore unable to teach him the basics of being a ninja" Well it turns out Naruto isnt just lazy about learning, he was also lazy about making friends. If he really worked hard to be recognized then he wouldve easily been friends with the likes of Choji and Shikamaru but well... the author is a bit of a mediocre storyteller so that's why Naruto series is riddled with lot of plot holes.
@@bayekofsiwa5847
Bullshit on so much I mean first off Naruto never says he doesn't know what chakra is and next it wasn't that he didn't work hard there's several times it's stated that he did just at first he couldn't do it. Also the village ostracized him when he was younger and kept their kids away so no matter how hard he worked the kids wouldn't be able to go near him til they were genin and even there by that point some of them had been ingrained with a hatred of Naruto or just found him annoying from their academy days
He was a failure and climbed up. That's an underdog, ain't it?
+Lord Kars Plague's video's point isn't that Naruto didn't endure hardship, everyone has in the Nartuo Universe, even the geniuses. But Naruto is no underdog, he started out as an outcast, but ended up becoming the most powerful ninja in ninja history. Like he says, Rock Lee should have been the real protagonist, the show lost its moral it tried to convey by having all of these gifts bestowed upon Naruto.
Imagine watching the film rocky, and rooting for Rocky Balboa’s training in the slums of Philadelphia and fighting against an obviously superior opponent with all the odds stacked against him. Then about half way through the movie you learn that actually Rocky’s dad was the undisputed champion of the world in every weight class, his mom was an Olympic athlete, his coach is actually a retired Muhammad Ali, his life had actually been watched over by the president of the United States because he is a secret weapon of the USA against foreign invaders, and that he’s also an literal reincarnation of the demigod Hercules sent down from Olympus to vanquish his opponent. Sort of devalues the whole underdog narrative doesn’t it?
So because LeBron James had amazing genetics for sports, he isn’t an underdog story anymore? Even though he was well below the poverty line, moving from house to house and with no father in his life?
this isnt necessarily his point though
@@w4ck3ed You missed the point
@@SuperAnimecity can you explain then because I’m open to have my mind changed
@@w4ck3ed Well to start it off to the only fact that matters. Genetics matter way more in Naruto than in the real world in terms of ability.
Naruto actually inspired me to go study again . he taught me that never give up and it is not never to late to start over again and follow your dreams.
I wish the best for you and what life has to offer.
@sanna karppinen I failed out of/dropped college twice. Now I've been getting straight As 5 semesters in a row. Naruto really showed me that the sadness and the rejection of life is not its bottom line, that the hard work and compassion you give can be rewarded somewhere, and that making goals is important to nourish self actualization. I really resonate with your comment and how this show inspired you.
@@this_functional634 The thing is unlike Naruto.
For some people, however hard they try it doesn't pay of.
They could only see other people, who were just born with more intelligence, had great genetics or by sheer luck attain things with Low difficulty, that they themselves even after countless tries and trying as hard as they could are no were near attaining.
In our world: for a certain goal, there are
1)Some people who could attain it with no difficulty.
2)Some people who have to try hard, and after some tries, they are able to attain it. eg Naruto
3)Some people who aren't able to attain the goal however much they try. They could only do is understand there limits and look for secondary less liked options that they are able to do.
4)Some people who have no ambition to attain the goal and are just fine as they are.
People in case 3 which includes the most people in it, have a bit hard time to relate to Naruto's character/mindset after being so humbled by life.
Dattebayo!
@@this_functional634 bro. naruto didnt even study on his own. he was force to study because of his privilege. but you are not privilege like naruto to succed in life.
To Be Honest it was pretty much hiruzen’s fault for everything he did not have to tell the villagers about naruto nor did he have to let him sleep in a crappy apartment.I honestly sympathize with naruto because Minato sacrificed his life for naruto and only asked for one thing in return which is To treat naruto like a hero.Everything minato accomplished would go to naruto since that’s his son.
lol he assumed "tell everyone that he held the nine tails equates to people treating him a hero for holding it back right after everyone loses their loved ones. genioush! lol
@@alexk7880 that still doesn't give them the right to dehumanize him
He didn’t tell the villagers. Danzo leaked it and hiruzen made it an order to stay quiet about it
when you're doing some digging and they try to silence you, you know you're going the right direction... except when you're not. Hiruzen silencing everyone made the matter worse because it further 'proved' their suspicion of Naruto being the Kyuubi. It was a terrible decision.
Hiruzen didn't tell about naruto being jinchuriki, it was Danzo
I feel like you should actually adress the arguments made by plague. The only thing you mention is the comparision between lee and Naruto.
Agreed, he went on his way to call people retards just because their opinions hurt his feelings.
He debunked the whole video. What more could you possibly want 😂
He addressed it, and he ignored the retarded comments. Which actually doesn't makes sense. That dude is just hating just for fun of it.
Internet Style: Self Own no Jutsu!
"I feel like". That's just how you feel. Plague was debunked.
Naruto is not an underdog the moment he learned
-kage bunshin no jutsu
-sexy no jutsu
and the ultimate jutsu in narutoverse
the talk no jutsu...😂😂😂
Yea OC if u achieve intense success as an underdog ur no longer an underdog...
I agree with both sides. Naruto suffered emotionally, but he still had his power set out for him, and Neji was absolutley right.
No dude. Neji was wrong. All the power was given to him, yes. But there were many CHOICES Naruto had to make to not go the wrong way with his power. Look how many strong enemies, literally just below Naruto if not stronger at the time of fighting chose the wrong path and Naruto shows him that. This manga/anime has nothing to do with power levels. It has everything to do with the human condition and empathy.
Fuckin this. Neji was right.
@@benny6148 idk man. Show Me A clip Of Rock Lee beating a Sharingan or Rinnegan User in shippuden. Maybe we can talk after that.
Neji was right. Naruto had the power and heritage
@@benny6148 he was DESTINED not to stray the path tho
I say that Naruto is(well was...) an outcast more than a underdog.
*an and you can be both an outcast and an underdog, you dont make sense.
@@RowBlanka you can be both, but naruto wasn't both. You don't make sense. Stop sucking naruto off.
noob saibot no at first he was an outcast and an underdog, natuto always messed up and no one thought that naruto could become what he became so of course he was both at first and then he was neither so why am i sucking naruto off if im just objective i couldnt care less pal its just what it is.
@@RowBlanka the objective response would be that naruto was an outcast not an underdog.
@@Riskofrain527 read what i said and realise im saying what youre saying but better haha
Underdog - A person who has little status in society.
Outcast - A person who has been rejected by society or a social group.
Which one of these truly fits Naruto? He was not the underdog, Lee was. Naruto was the outcast. Forever struggling to earn respect and find a place within the Leaf Village even when the villagers themselves made it clear they didn't want him. The anime and mange shows and tells us that repeatedly. Cut the insults as well, it devalues any point you try to make.
Naruto fits both. He had little status and was a reject. People looked down on him, thus showing is low status in society.
The third hokage has respect for him, because he was the son of the fourth. Jiraiya ended up training him also because he is the son of the fourth. Clearly the top ranks of the social hierarchy do pay him attentian and make things easier for him. When the top ranks of the hierarchy care for you, then you are deffinetly not rejected by the system. In fact the system was trying to help him by making laws that forbid parents to tell their kids about Kurama. His status was so high as a jinchuriki of the hidden leaf and son of the fourth hokage, that the system are willing to create new laws, just to make his life easier.
@@petqica7505 Based on the definitions given by the original comment, Naruto is still an underdog and an outcast.
@@petqica7505 I looked up the definition of underdog. It's as follow...
"A competitor thought to have little chance of winning a fight or contest."
I'm thinking of the Neji fight. Who did people think would win? Whether someone is an underdog is based solely on other people's opinions and NOT based in the individuals potential.
@ITS bullzie explain what you mean.
I think that he was underdog. Not terms of raw strength, but in the terms of being an outsider to his own village, and having been seen as a loser. His story is how he gains the trust and recognition of his village
kinda like saitama and mob
Underdog not in terms of strength but in terms of being an outcast and loner is not an underdog....its an outcast and loner, shino anyone?, they are different terms for a reason....they mean different things
Comicdude215 Extreme Don’t see why people don’t understand this. The definition of underdog is a competitor thought to have little to no chance in completing a goal, and the whole village hated Naruto and didn’t expect him to accomplish anything in life.
MM25 people dont understand because you are not making real arguments. It was never Stated whether or not people thought naruto would or wouldnt be shit. all we know is they avoided him ( yes some hated him), which has nothing to do with being an underdog.
You literally gave us the definition then explained how naruto doesnt fit that But still did the mental gymnastics required to believe you are right.
Boosted avian They avoided and despised him. No one in the village expected him to become Hokage like it’s pretty obvious. Another definition for underdog would be someone who has little status in society. And that perfectly explains Naruto, backing up what I said. He has no one in the village, no one expected anything from him, they avoided and hated him, making him an underdog.
I don't think I've ever really compared my childhood to Naruto's with any actual thought, but I have kind of resonated with the loneliness he felt. Though mine wasn't nearly as bad, I didn't have a father and my mother died when I was young. I eventually made some friends, but I usually spent a lot of time practically alone at my house. It's not that my great aunt and uncle didn't care for me, but by the time they got me, even though I was only a couple of months old, they were on the decline of their physical health. I did manage to make some friends that lived pretty close though. My longest and one of my closest friends was the neighbor that lived right across the street, and we have been friends for a long time and most of my other friends I came into contact to directly or indirectly by him. So in a way I can relate to a bit to how Naruto grew up, but again not nearly as harshly as he had it. Maybe this is why I enjoy the series so much, but I've never actually pondered on it, so I don't know
this video reminded me of why i love naruto so much
Me too
*Face palms* ... Please tell us more about how naruto is the only one with a special bloodline of gods and a reincarnation of one
@@xdrawesome314x4 Read Seth the programmers comment above.
@@Miles_Moraless who?
@@xdrawesome314x4 Seth the Programmer is a youtube who gives power scales for individual anime characters. He made a comment in this vid and it should be one of the first comments u see.
im not gonna lie you talking about naruto's life it hit me in the feels it actually brought a tear to my eye
Plus his entire clan/village was dead, he was also the last of his people :(
@mehazad rahman The anime has made me cry at multiple points. I cannot see certain scenes at certain points without experiencing pain.
@mehazad rahman This anime somehow makes me sad at some points. I find that is the case for many anime but some more than others.
@@happymexican9436 yeah but he did not know that
same why
Yes
The power he had inside of him could have killed him in many different ways. Internal and external. People saying he wasn’t obviously didn’t watch the OG Naruto series.
(i do not blame you if you do not read this hold thing it took me three and a half hours to make this i just hope part one gets may point across so have a nice day i am finally going to bed now)
ok now lets see 11 years of everyone being a dick to i see your po.....wait kurama himself killing naruto internally and externally ok let see if that part it true. if time naruto used kurama save sasuke and he bridge builder became a hero to a little town, ok that is one benefit. saved him from being eaten and i think this time going to be killed by a giant snake, ok one benefit. saved him from dying when his god father throw him off a cliff and gave him his toad friend, a benefits all around. helped him kick neji's ass making one fight away from being a chunin, benefits. so far only see one external form but that one was not going to kill him. used the 9 tails to summon his toad to fight a tailed beast made a clone of the 9 tails for a few seconds, saved him from being killed by sand and saved the village, still waiting for kurama to hurt naruto in anyway that can lead to him dying yet only see one big negative and a lot of positives that can't naruto living like nothing happened. oh i think i got one when ( not going to try and spell their names now hopefully i describe them right) the snake sanin's doctor almost killed naruto oh wait that guy had to cut chakra lines so kurama would but help naruto so we have an internal factor killing naruto that was not cause by the 9 tails so moving on. when trying to get sasuke and his fight with the bone guy kurama did not help cause the guy was shitting on naruto in that from so yea. what this naruto have a chidori right through his right arm how will he ever become hokage.... oh wait kurama heal that in seconds you say, so that is one more benefit you say ok. naruto gets his ass kicked to an opponent still trying to kill him and the 9 tails gave him more power to live and fight on you say, ok that is ben- oh wait naruto finally gets internal damages that could kill him if this continues so neither a benefit or a problem? you can jugde that one base on the fight for yourself. ok that is part one of naruto the score is one biggest negative one small negative oh wait kurama made it hard to control chakra so two small negatives tho i think the last one could have been fixed if naruto really tried during his years in school like rock lee but keeping it there. now the benefits, save sasuke and the bridge builder, fought for rock less and hinata and be neji becoming closer to a chunin; the chunin part really does not matter because of the fight against the leaf but in context before that it did. saving the leaf village and fighting as well as beating a tailed beast that is a hokage level feat; saved his life during that fight. the fox helped naruto stay in the fight against sasuke and made him able to continue his dream unless you want to argue naruto can do it with just one arm you can but we have to give Might Guy his leg back. so that is part one 4 negatives and five benefits and most of the benefits are concelling out the negatives so on to part 2.
the fox was no help in the kazakage arc more like a danger to everyone, so one negative. used two injuried him and sakura so that is two negatives oh wait. naruto was fighting a sanin and with out the nines the only ones on team 7 that was going to live was sai and yamato i think having both me and someone else but have healable injuries cancels that one out i can argue that was a benefit cause now naruto can still save sasuke and be hokage later in live. the nine was on used for a while until pain comes along. boy this is an important one so here we go; so pain came to the village for naruto so that is one negative but the really negative is that everyone has to built there houses back up now but that was not a problem for anyoen not even naruto so that negative is gone. naruto would have die in this fight and there would only be one more tailed beast to catch if it was not for hinata getting naruto to use, say it with me, THE NINE TAILS TO KICK PAINS ASS FOR HIM, once again a benefit a dangerous i will give you that but we all know what happened next. Naruto gets to see his father for the first time; you can argue that is a negative cause the nine tails is what caused his parents to be 6 feet under and as you know that was a benefit in the long run and look at the war arc and naruto gettting the nines is not prove of this literally the two biggest reason naruto was winning the wart was thanks to them being die. ok so we have three instead of the nine tails killing him that ends with naruto getting a bigger benefits to that fact (i would love to hear your reason after this cause there is some really truth to does claims) one of them being the hero of the people naruto always wanted to be i will give that to naruto tho cause he is the reason everyone in the village is alive (damn this is getting long this may just be the most i have ever written on youtube). the war arc is just were the benefits of having kurama become the most in the whole series literally gaves the power to become the great thing his side has to winning the war, one benefit that can literally be hundreds if i decide to count each moment naruto helped the shinbo allies. kurama helped naruto save two kages and hundreds of ninjas in one move and that was just a clone boasted by kurama. kurama saved naruto, killer bee, might guy and kashi hatake from SIX TAILED BEAST BOMBS and bitch slap SIX TAILED BEASTS. made it possible that naruto did not die to madara when he showed up. the fox kept guy naruto and bee alive while being hit by A TEN TAILS TAILED BEAST BOMB LITERALLY THE KING TAIL BEAST BOMB. it made his sage mode stronger and easier to charge. the die father coming back to save all of the shinobi allies hell naruto save that same allies by giving them some of the fox's chakra. naruto beats otibi thanks to the nine tails. naruto died when the nine was taken from him so finally i negative in this war ar..............wait a minute naruto became god thanks to the nine tails killing his parents so do i take away the 11 years now cause kurama is fuck making up for that shit the fuck kurama just made up for all the fucking negatives naruto had in the series that were related to him naruto became a god thanks to kurama saved the world thanks to kurama and kurama keeping naruto alive made naruto become hokage at this point the poeple saying kurama was a fuck blessing was looking at the benefits vs the negatives are are not just said there are negatives the fat that your agruement is that we have not watch the series and there maybe a few that did not be looking at the war arc only they conclude that the nine tails was a fucking blessing if kid naruto can see the shit he can do now he would be sucking kurama's dick deepthroat style to get there faster. i do not even need to keep fucking score now when this one creature is the reason your fucking wife is not getting her pussy fucked everyday by some god pretty boy rapist livng on the fucking moon i think i need to here your side of the agruement because i right want to see if you can break all this down( watch seth breaks all this down =-= if that happens my respect for him is going up to the god levels).
yea but he was an UZumaki and reincarnation of the son of God that created the Tail beast, so obviously he would have the Talent to not die from said beast and even if he dies he gets brought back to life by said God.
do you read naruto bro.
remove everything naruto was handed be it Kurama, Talents of Bloodline, Destiny, Reincarnation and naruto would be a worse ninja than Iruka and high chances he would have never even become a ninja in the first place.
if it was not for Kurama he would of died of Poisoning in wave arc
would of lost to Kiba
would of lost to neji
would of lost to sasuke
would of lost to everyone because now he cant use Kage bunshin
would of never master rasengan because no one heals that fast
Would of died to Kabuto
Would of never learned Wind style Rasenshurikken because he cant use 10,0000s of clone
would of never master Sage mode because even someone like Jiraiya who was trained by 3rd Hokage never mastered it, without relying on his Blood talent and destiny and reincarnation a normal joe would never master Sage mode, i dont see tsunade even as a Senju mastering it.
Yes, Kurama was dangerous in theory, but Kurama also contributed to a lot of his victories. I'd say most victories were because he had Kurama.
@@emastermet609 The video completely ignored that Plague wasn't talking from a social POV, but from a combat POV. Plague at no point argued Naruto had to overcome emotional struggles, but this entire video is based around that concept. I'm really confused as to what you're saying, could you elaborate?
@@emastermet609 Rock Lee had parents, friends and a great teacher. Naruto had Kurama (one of the most powerful beings on the planet), Uzumaki genetics, was the Child of Prophecy, the reincarnation of a demi-god. was taught by the future Hokage (Kakashi, who was himself a child prodigy) and another person who was Hokage material (Jiraiya). You seem incredibly hostile, if you can't respond in a respectful manner, I'm not going to bother responding to this trolling.
I sense a disturbing lack of Iruka in this video. Sure he wasn‘t in that many episodes as far as I‘ve seen but he was still an important Person to Naruto and even protected him after naruto learned the whole shadow clone thing. At least a mention would have been nice. Other than that great vid and the topic of depression is something that only few people actually want to disscuss so it‘s great you took the oportunity!
He didnt until he caught naruto painting the hokage's faces and heard his mutterings about there was no one to go home to also till sandaime talked to him about naruto to see him as child and not as a jinchurriki or a demon.
@@cadambankannan5419 yeah but you can't really blame iruka, the nine tails killed his parents when he was a kid + everyone in the village viewed naruto as beings the nine tails so why wouldn't iruka also think that way and see him as the one who killed his parents
no kakashi either
As well as Shikamaru and choji.
@@parikshitgarhwal8642 no in the manga they didn't really talk to Naruto either that was something the anime added
I think when people talk about underdog's they have to remember it is a story, there is a time where they are an underdog, and a time where they have overcome whatever obstacle was in their way.
For Lee, as a kid, he couldn't use ninjutsu or genjutsu, and people said he couldn't be a ninja, that's why he was an underdog. After somehow passing the graduation exam and becoming a ninja, he trains hard and learns different techniques such as the lotus and eight gates to help him accomplish his dream. He fights Gaara proving that he can be a ninja using only taijutsu. I would say that is when his underdog story ends, as people now realize that he is a strong ninja with only his taijutsu.
For Naruto, he is a pretty bad at the academy and can't even do a clone jutsu. He then learns the shadow clone jutsu, which he is able to use a lot with his immense chakra (only ability really given to him imo). He then trains really hard learning techniques such as the rasengan, rasenshuriken, and sage mode. The Pain arc is when Naruto's underdog story ends, as he is now acknowledged by the village and seen as a strong ninja. Taking it even farther however, during the war, he works hard to build a friendship with Kurama and use Kurama Chakra mode.
So I think it is important to remember that both these characters had disadvantages that prevented them from becoming strong ninja (Lee only using taijutsu and Naruto being pretty bad at everything and not having anyone there for him). However both these characters worked hard to become stronger (Both Lee and Naruto learned different techniques to get stronger). People then start to acknowledge them, and I would say acknowledgment is when you stop being an underdog, because an underdog is someone who is seen as weak by other people. Once both characters have been acknowledged, they are taken much more seriously as ninja by their peers, and therefore cannot be seen as underdogs anymore, but just because they are no longer underdogs, doesn't mean they never were.
Bump. Just...fucking bump this comment. Thank you lad for stating what we and Clyde have all been trying to say about Naruto.
Your definition of underdog is "someone that is expected to fail by others" and by that definition, Naruto definitely was an underdog. But a lot of people take is as a "someone who is at a disadvantage" which Naruto definitely didn't. I think a lot of people argue entirely different things due to never defining what they actually mean by Underdog.
rsarin18 the difference is lee didn’t have a demon inside him and didn’t have any special lineage.
@@jaydengray4015 Yes and therefore was treated like a monster by the villagers and the threat that one day might go berserk and kill all his friends. You're acting like Kurama was such a blessing to have.
@A Johnson I don't think you understand what the whole destiney thing was about. The reason Naruto grew from underdog to hero was because of his willpower and hardwork. the reason he had so much willpower and hardwork was because of reincarnation yes that's true, but that doesn't discredit Naruto. Lets look at how we view willpower/motivation/hardwork, even though willpower and motivation is largely based n genetics(or reincarnation) people view willpower and hardwork as things anyone can have this is proven by the fact that you believe lee is/was a "real" underdog. I could argue that lee was destined to be great because his genetics blessed him with motivation and willpower. The thing is if you believe that you can do something it proves that you have the genetics and it proves that you wil be great. if you don't believe that you can do something it proves that you weren't blessed with willpower/motivation and that you won't be great. So bassicaly being able to work hard is a talent. Naruto and lee believed in themselfs wich proved that they are the reincarnation of ashura/have the genetics if they didn't believe in themself it would prove that they aren't the reincarnation of ashura/have the genetics. The inspiring thing about naruto here is that it tells you that if you work hard you will be the reincarnation of ashura, that you can choose your destiney that you can choose to be the reincarnation of ashura. Of course you can't actually choose since you being ashura's reincarnation is predetermined and if you are ashura's reincarnation it's also predetermined that you will chose to believe in yourself. So the big choice is actually not a choice but it definetely feels like one and looking at it like it's a choice will result in you picking the right answer (hard work) and being the reincarnation of ashura.
Suffice to say, fandoms of the big 3 are idiots who only care about which of their characters can beat up the other in a fight
No that's every fandom, that is why we have websites dedicated to crossover battles.
@@HuntertheWraithDragon not all attack on titan and hxh fandoms are pretty chill.
Miraculous Critique hxh is one of my favorite anime’s of all time. The fandom is shit tho
@@seights2596 i cant take hxh fans seriously
@@kami_svn4135 they like to constantly compare the chimera ant arc to other shonen arcs and call other shonen arcs trash/shit, when in fact they are hypocritical by comparing something that was written over a span of 10 fucking years to weekly shonen arcs
He is not an underdog, but an underfox! LOL
Underwear
I see what you did there. ;)
I mean foxes are techically caines
Ahaha :/
You’re talking about the emotional side of things. Naruto was an underdog in that sense. He’s definitely not an underdog in terms of power or hard work!
The only fight he has won by himself without anyone else or kyubbi involvement in the ENTIRE series is the chunin fight where he farted on kiba.
Fax
Thing is, If he didn't had the Kyubi, Naruto would have had more efficient abilities that gave him the win
@@lasttrinity0780 Or you know... Not be forced to fight the same fights.
@Among Yu yes.
Naruto would have still learned Sage mode, and Minato and Kushina could have trained him in Fuinjutsu
Added to it is He now has an amazing control of chakra(which was bad in the show due to Kurama's chakra interfering through the seal)
@@lasttrinity0780 Haku would have killed him long before any of this could have happened
You seem to forget that while Naruto is introduced as friendless and alone, the series keeps retconning it until Naruto had multiple friends (even if their parents didn't like him) and apparently hung and out pulled pranks with Kiba, Shikamaru, and Chouji. So he wasn't alone. He wasn't a talentless nobody. And even if Kurama hated Naruto and only saved him to save himself (until it was eventually retconned that Kurama won't die if Naruto does), Kurama's power still saves Naruto's ass in every major fight since Haku. And while Naruto does take to training on screen, we're told that he's constantly training in his downtime, yet if he's not trying to learn a new move someone showed him, he's shown just goofing off rather than actually training (particularly flashbacks or before the Chunin Exam)
The only reason Naruto got flak at the start is everyone in the village forgot (aka, Kishimoto hadn't retconned it yet) that his last name is Uzumaki, the same as the Hokage's wife whom Naruto is a physical clone of. Would people worship him because he's the fourth's son? I don't know. But it's still relevant.
so true SO FUCKING TRUE
Naruto beat Pain almost only using Sage Mode
@@SenSen130 First, ALMOST. As in, he still didn't win without Kurama. Second, remember that Pain's strongest body was out of commission when Naruto showed up due to using his super gravity move.
@@MurasakiTsukimaru Almost but.....i think even someone like kakshi wouldnt be able to beat a tailed beast...so using a bit of the 9 tails chakra isnt that bad
@@SenSen130 The only example I can think of is Naruto vs Kiba, because Naruto had that extra seal on him making so he couldn't use Kurama's power (or most of his own).
Pretty sure I got trapped in an endless comment purgatory the last time I brought up this subject (which was ironically on Clyde's Sasuke video) so I'm going to do the smart thing here and not say anything...oh screw it in for a penny in for a pounding by the fanbase.
I used to think the Naruto underdog premise was complete BS and that part 2 with it's reincarnation/prophecy spiel kind of retroactively shat on that premise. But as Seth (and someone from the aforementioned comment purgatory) correctly points out it doesn't actually take away from the emotional battles Naruto undergoes. Yes Naruto has the potential to be practically Ninja Jesus but it doesn't change the fact he starts out as an Underdog and that his potential had to actually be honed through training and practice thus Naruto still falls into the 'underdog working his way up' category. While Part 2 does kind of poo on the underdog premise a little it doesn't do so to the extent Naruto's character is completely divorced from the underdog character arc and he always retains a feeling of character agency rather than being the pawn of fate/destiny.
Jesus that got more wordy than I intended, well thanks for reading to anyone who did. Feel free to agree or disagree just keep it chill.
Everyone has to work their way up, not just Naruto; not being the best doesn't make you an underdog. Unless you refer to him not being the strongest at the start, he isn't an underdog.
But he IS the pawn of destiny. That and the reincarnation stuff means not only is it inevitable that we would of won but even if he magicly dies, he just reincarnated and does it again. Infinite tries kinda makes it all meaningless
IWillBecomeImmortalOrDieTrying Did you watch the video?
Whoa responses blew up. Okay so I'm not feeling up to dragging out a full on discussion on this (not again) so I'll just give a long ass response that covers it all.
Underdog can either be defined as a person who has little status in society or a competitor thought to have little chance of winning a fight or contest. Seeing as both apply to Naruto I fail to see what's so hard to understand here. And no don't give the 'he had Kurama' spiel as Clyde in this video addresses why that's a complete non-argument.
As for the prophecy thing, it was vague as hell and went from being about Nagato, to being about Naruto to being about both of them and also the prophecy does not really invalidate Naruto's agency as he has his own reasons for doing what he does in the Pain arc completely unrelated to that prophecy.
Then there's the reincarnation/transmigrant plot point which is literally just Ashura and Indra lobbing off their chakra to their descendants and that's it. Sure the existence of the chakra plays a role but even Naruto flat out tells Hagoromo he's not Ashura and Sasuke is not Indra. Having globs of your ancestor's chakra sticking to you is hardly enough to start spouting the 'Neji is right' nonsense. Especially considering most people just assume there's never been an evil Ashura reincarnate or a nice Indra one. Plus the actual character of Neji goes on to prove his own philosophy wrong so yeah don't be feeding me that Neji is right stuff.
There may be destiny in Naruto but if there is it certainly doesn't seem to be impermeable. Naruto had nothing to begin with and worked his way up to the top with training and determination. You can still be an underdog even if you have crazy potential. Being an Underdog is not purely about how strong you are.
Ben
Fukin like your understanding.. thanks for commenting
Your love for this series really shines through in this video, and it is great that you have gotten so much value out of it, but I think you missed the point of Plagueofgripes' video.
Plague usually targets the writing/writer/execution of the story, not so much the story itself. In context of his story, Naruto goes through horrible circumstances that would break most people. I'm not going to refute that. But when you zoom out and view the story at its most base parts Kishimoto undercuts Naruto's credibility as a start-from-nothing-and-drive-for-the-stars protagonist by continuously giving him power boosts inherent to his birth.
I'd argue that Kurama's power alone doesn’t break Kishimoto's intentions because of how he gets Naruto ostracized, but then it's revealed that Naruto's descended from a very strong bloodline, and then it’s revealed that he's a reincarnation of one of the mightiest beings to ever walk the land (underdog though said being might have been at the time of its existence). Regardless of how tragic the circumstances around these qualities are, they still provide immense power that cannot be replicated because he was born with them.
(And no, Naruto technically was not born with Kurama, but he might as well have been considering his parents were the leaders of the village and his Uzumaki bloodline setting him or a hypothetical sibling up to be an eventual heir as jinchuriki anyway).
TL;DR Plague's arguing that an author shouldn't give their underdog lineage-based super boosts and then make them the crux of how the protagonist achieves their goal if the author wants to maintain a thematically-consistent/coherent underdog story. The Naruto series was a convenient vehicle to use as demonstration.
Naruto has several writing flaws like any other series, but that does not diminish whatever joy and messages the individual reader receives from it. Thanks for reading.
@Sasuke is easily the best character in the series *E X A C T L Y*
@Sasuke is easily the best character in the series Your name is so wrong but what you said is true
The inly powers inherent to his birth are the chains which broke when he was fighting kurama and asura reincarnation which doesn't even help him with being and being an outcast since he can't just activate it regularly either.
Also constant? Naruto truly gets only one power up out of nowhere and that's asura form. Plauge also said there was no drawback which hilarious because kurama literally feeds off naruto negative emotions to the point where kurama almost completely takes over. In fact after the fight over Orchimaru his skin turns red and and needs to get healed by sakura. Like c'mon.
Very well written and agreed. Clyde’s Naruto fanboyism blinded him to the points Plague was making
@@keodiozubu8670 Exactly and that transformation rendered him useless further during that mission. He couldn't jump on trees or simply run and was basically powerless in front of Sasuke because of that transformation.
Having a superpowered inner demon is a positive if you are the main character.
unless you are touma kamijou we still don't know what the invisble things want
Naruto is literally the reincarnation of a child of God, had a 2 legendary ninjas as teachers, has a demon inside of him that wouldn't allow him to die regardless of the circumstance (and also helped him win literally 90% of his main fights that he would have lost, whether Kurama liked him or not), had a prodigy of a father and a chakra rich bloodline from his mother, had constant competition with another prodigy of a ninja as they were teammates, and had the ability to literally talk his opponents into agreeing with his world view. Sure he had no parents, sure he had to work hard to learn safe mode, and sure he had to fight his best friend twice to what could have easily been his death, but he also had what amounts to a zenkai boost ALMOST EVERY TIME DUE TO KURAMA. Rock Lee lost his dad. Has ZERO ninjutsu or genjustu ability, has mastered 6 gates (4 more than even the prodigy Kakashi), had Neji ridicule him relentlessly (even more so than Sasuke did to Naruto), had his leg and arm tore to shreds, had to go through a surgery that easily could have killed him. Naruto could be counted as an emotional underdog for some time, but that goes away towards the end of OG Naruto's chunin exams. Lee is the underdog the entire time. He's been through struggles just as bad as Naruto and overcame all of them to stand toe to toe with literally some of the best ninja the series has ever seen in each of his age demographics.
@@userb72 That's not an argument since Rock Lee and Naruto BOTH made the decision to become ninjas as kids. Naruto didn't get told "Hey, you have to become a ninja because rogue ninjas are going to take your ass." They both made the voluntary choice as kids without knowledge of what their futures would become
being the reincarnation and the hokages son didn't give him any advantages. He was never destined for greatness, he was never destined to be the savior, and he was never destined to be strong. The only thing he was destined for was to die by his best friend or to kill his best friend. Being the son of a powerful leader, having a powerful beast inside of him, and being a reincarnation of a powerful being doesn't have anything to do with it. If it did then he would've been a prodigy, someone who could achieve anything without training. Which obviously didn't even happened early on. The so6p even said that having exceptional parents doesn't mean he will be exceptional as well. The only advantage he had in early part one was having more chakra than everyone else
@@drizzy5005 stfu
@@drizzy5005 ''he wasnt destined for greatness''
he is literally the child of prophecy the child which will unite the tailed beasts
@@RyomenAyeni225 the prophecy is not set in stone.
I dont usually do comments on videos cause its a pain, but imma throw my 2 cents (roughly about 1 million yen for you weebs) into it. I dont think any person who actually watched/Read Maruta thinks he didnt work hard. Naruto was bailed out of any dangerous loss not only cause Kurama wanted his body, but to also keep save his own life.
That being said, Naruto doesnt really "work hard" like most people would have to. Idk if its from the Fox, His Uzimake blood, or being the son of Jesus, but he has a chakra well that is so deep that even Kakashi points it out while he is making the shuriken. His definition of working hard is like a genius trying to learn something. He picks up thing and learns them at incredible rates. Saying that its just cause he put his mind to it would imply thats all any one would have to do. In fact he learned the shadow clone in a few hours, then as an untrained kid he maruta made like a hundred of him and beat up a guy who should have been way beyond his pay grade.
The point of Plagues video wasnt to say Nartuo never worked hard, but I think it was to point out the fact that the series was about him rising above by working hard, yet he is given so much more advantages then anyone else. He is more over powered then even the Sharingan and Hashirama cells by the end of the series, not cause of hard work, but cause a three eyed space man awakened his jesus powers and cause he made friends with all the beasts. No other person in the series gets more power from friendship. The point of saying "hard work is stronger then natural skill" is kind of a moot point when you hard work is bolstered by genetic advantages or by the fox (regardless of it taking him over).
Naruto rising above his depression is a good point, as someone who went through depression in the past it is hard to go through. Maybe i'm miss remembering but he seemingly got over his depression pretty early in the series as he began to make friends. Personally, and this is just my opinion, I think that Naruto stopped being an underdog story once he hit shippuden. Maruta feels more like a shonen 「Heroes Journey」.
Anyways, this was more then I should have typed cause i dont even like Maruta that much. Like ive said a few time, just my opinion. Feel free to disagree, having your own take on a series is good, you shouldnt let Clyde or Plauge decide your opinions you should form your own through reading and research. With that Im signing off ~God Speed
「Editorial Note」If anyone for some reason actually read this and notice I called Naruto Maruta through out, its cause Maruta is a hentai artist and every time I see their name or naruto I think of the other one. Just a little bit of fun I was having splicing it it.
Mr.Lister The Sister Phister I agree with you but I still think Naruto was a underdog growing up.
@@blazingexil4003 Sure, but it was circumstantial. Only because he didn't know who he was, and probably had massive insecurity issues from being treated like an outcast.
"I don't usually do comments on videos cause it's a pain..."
*Writes a novel*
@@searching4pawgs495
That still makes him an underdog
@@mikemorro140 He was a guy with extreme potential, who had to discover his worth and connect with the people who could help help fulfill his potential. I guess that is an underdog, just not the best example of one. Rock Lee, for example, is an underdog.
He is the descendent of the sage of six paths and the first hokage, related to the second hokage and fifth hokage and is also the son of the fourth hokage plus is the jinchuriki of the strongest tailed beast he is an UNDERDOG
Indeed
Lol
Two definitions to the word underdog. Naruto represents the one that states the one that is expected to fail. Idiot
Isn't everyone (with chakra) a descendant of So6p?
I didn't know he was related to hashirama, wasn't he just related to his wife?
Minato's strength seemed to come from his studying, something naruto didn't really do but he's actually kind of smart, or at least bright, despite not being knowledgeable.
Kurama is op tho
@@jakegoodrich6520 naruto is a reincarnation of one of his sons. That alone means he's not an underdog. No arguing around that.
Naruto Dab legend naruto is expected to fail because nobody know what he truly is.
A point no one has brought up: Naruto's parents were OP. He always had the potential -- Kushina and the Uzumaki clan always had heaps of chakra reserves. So did Minato. I don't think he is as much of an underdog as it seems.
Umm.. the Kyuubi gave him plenty of chakra buddy lol
Minato didn't have enormous chakra reserves as far as I know, but Minato was also a natural talent. So you have naturally talented father and bloodline blessed mother and now you try to tell me their kid is an underdog when he inherited both of those traits... lol
@@smaragdchaos I agree dude. This video didn't really debunk plague's, it just took a different route on what "Naruto" is all about.
@@timbrady1176 it kinda did if you look at it
@@mony6847 i watched both through their entirety and this video never debunked any of plagues points.
4:15 it doesn’t matter if kurama was friendly with Naruto or not, he still had to give Naruto power and so he did. It’s no different
friend, kurama was more of a curse than a support, the fox was literally looking to kill naruto, how is it not different?
@@henrysoto5844 Kurama lends Naruto power when he needs to. Doesn’t matter the relationship, kurama doesn’t want to die.
@@Parody765wastaken
Naruto had to learn how to control the chakra in the first place. He had to work hard for every single power up he had.
Just when I’m really bored Clyde comes in and save me
Same
Good for you
This is a joke. Naruto was not an underdog at least as a ninja in this story but as an individual on a personal level he most definently is an underdog.
He sucked in the academy, he was an underdog, and he didn’t have parents to raise and help train him, he was an underdog as a ninja all the way up till shippuden besides his crazy feats from the nine tailed fox
He was destined for greatness not matter what hardships he went through.
@@Saleem__786 *to fight to the death with his best friend*
Proof that you didn't pay attention to the video or just skipped it to complain in the comments.
@@Saleem__786
"Destined for greatness"? You're joking right?
How much you actually watch the video and then get back to me about that.
I wish Naruto showed more variety in his techniques
He actually did want to learn more techniques like genjutsu for example, but jiraiya was like nah and made him sharpen techniques that he already knows into much stronger ones
Watch one of the more recent episodes of Boruto. Turns out he knows the Mudwall technique.
He did in the later half of shippuden. Although technicaly they were modes, not justsus. But yes i agree
@@PotatoBoy just imagine if he used jutsus like hiruzen and uzumaki sealing he would be unstoppable
@@ganeshgondhalekar9701 man I swear they nerfed him so hard it’s crazy
Is this even serious ? Like it does not matter if Kurama was a shitty power up... it was still something that made Naruto special lol... He literally survived to Haku due to Kurama, he survived to Orochimaru due to Kurama, he survived against Neji due to Kurama and against Sasuke and so on...
Even if Kurama didn't like Naruto he did help him a lot either way.
the guy literally got free power ups as well... he had a lot more chakra due to the Kyubi Chakra, and he also got increased healing... like Sasuke basically destroyed his lungs and he healed lol
"He literally survived to Haku due to Kurama"
Totally. Never mind that Haku was only a threat because he was born with a powerful kekkei genkai, and Zabuza himself admitted that Haku would become far stronger than he is, so he too was "special"...
"he survived to Orochimaru due to Kurama"
Absolutely right. Never mind that Orochimaru was not only a grown man holding back while bullying a bunch of kids, but quite possibly the single smartest character in the entire series, who not only easily sealed away Kurama's chakra, stripping Naruto of what made him "special", but intentionally sealed it away in such a way that it imbalanced Naruto's own chakra flow, forcing the kid to finish the second trial, and the elimination round with his abilities severely crippled...
"he survived against Neji due to Kurama"
Right on point. Never mind, that Neji himself was a genius, who taught himself not one, but two secret techniques, that were strictly only passed down in main branch of the family. Never mind, that Neji's Byakugan is stated to be the strongest of everyone in the Hyuga clan...
"against Sasuke"
Right. Never mind that Sasuke has one of the most broken Kekkeia Genkai in the series, or that at the time he was given a "free" power-up in the form of the Curse Mark...
"he had a lot more chakra due to the Kyubi Chakra"
Naruto's own chakra was actually hampered by having to keep Kurama's chakra at bay...
"Sasuke basically destroyed his lungs and he healed"
Riiiight. It's not like Killer Bee did the same to Sasuke later on, and Sasuke was healed by someone, whom Sasuke promised to keep at bay, so that he would not slaughter everyone at sight... oh wait...
@@Verebazs And your point is?
Just because other people is special, does not change the fact that Naruto was special and survived stuff he would not survive due to Kurama?
Like my argument is not that only Naruto was special in the World, the point is that he got everything he could due to Kurama lol
May be analyze the comment instead of arguing something I never said or tried to say lol
@@Verebazs Listen, Plague wasn't only calling Naruto a power-up, handjob getting hypocrite but almost every character in the show. They all have something "special" like different retarded sets of eyes and stupid fucking chakra animals stuck up their assholes.
@@finnish_hunter ??? So your defense of his ridiculous sh*ttake, is that he was having a problem with every fantasy aspect...OF A FANTASY SERIES? Are you serious?
@@Verebazs Your argument is so garbage It's painful responding to it.
You basically proved that Naruto is the most privileged and overpowered Orangutan in the show because he was born with a gift that overpowers all the other genetically advantaged characters; therefore proving that Naruto is a hypocrite who knows nothing about hardwork. He only survived because of the Nine Tail Fox. Mind you, Plague argument mainly revolved around the first part of the series and not strictly Shippuden (which is the theme that this coper CZcamsr talked about; making your "circumstances" [i.e alien reincarnation, primal demon beast sealed, amped bloodline gifts] into "advantages").
Classic Naruto before Shippuden was a hypocritical writing failure revolving around the theme of "hard work Vs talent".
Your argument is destroyed. Didn't take much time to be honest. Try harder next time cupcake. ✌️🤫😏😴 easy.
Everyone told Rock lee to just give up, because he was talentless. While in narutos case everyone just ignored him, basicly the whole world tried to tell him to give up. But he kept pushing nonetheless. And while the 8 gates may be on par with madara, it costs your own life which doesn't sound like a good trade of to me.
kurama before he liked naruto was trying to take over his body, everyone hated naruto for having a monster trapped inside him, you forget that everyone told naruto he couldnt be hokage, naruto's parents died forcing him to live alone in solitude, had no people to support him unlike rock lee who had a fantastic mentor who never gave up on him and a team/rivals to help push him, naruto was an underdog.
Nice guy people didn’t just ignore naruto he was hated by his entire village people looked at him with animosity because of something that was forced upon him and he also didn’t know at all until he was a Genin imagine being a 5 year old have people treat you like a piece of shit and you not knowing why it would make you hate everything and the fact that naruto despite this battle his way to becoming the most loved person in the village and the thing is even though after the pain arc he was the village hero he was still misunderstood as no one knew his hardships up until the war where ino’s mind jutsu connected everyone that naruto has given chakra and they looked into his memories and saw just how sad and lonely he was and the burdens he had to carry meanwhile yea lee was told that he was talentless but at least no one looked at him like they wanted to kill him or have the threat of the most powerful shinobi in the world murder him but don’t worry naruto had everything handed to him yea your right and cause your a bot I’ll point out that sarcasm so fuck outta here dumbass
@@brazen4425 i dont think naruto is a underdog. I think he was naive and inexperienced.
Not saying Lee had an easy life but you're on something dangerously potent if you're seriously trying to say that he has had it worse than Naruto.
@Mr X He didn't have any mentors until later, when he was young he had none and was fighting against everyone.
It's almost like there are struggles outside of fighting that plague and his followers don't even seem aware of. Mental anguish is an obstacle too.
WebCamParrots What’s going on in the discord what happened to it?
As someone that actually watched his video... I'd like to be reminded if possible, where did he say Naruto did or didn't have emotional issues?
@@MajorLawliet As someone that also watched the video we are currently challenging anyone to debate us on these positions in Clydes discord. If you actually want to throw hands on this I'll gladly body you, Here: discordapp.com/invite/nzQZXek
@@WebCamParrot Dude, he just asked a question, don't be an ass.
@WebCamParrots hes not asking for a debate hes asking you a question, maybe try answering it.
During his fight with Neji at chunin exams there was a scene where he tap in nine tail fox power without going berserk that shocked everybody even the third Hokage.
he did the same in his fight against Gaara, and also when he summoned the giant toad for the first time when falling off a cliff
That was just kurama leaking out his chakra to weaken the seal. More chakra - more berserk. It's consistent too because the nine tails is way stronger than the one tail so Naruto didn't need much to take him out, or summon a frog or uppercut neji. As oppose to fighting sasuke or taking on haku. Summoning
Pretty sure that was the real point of the training. Why train Naruto is a technique that probably is ilegal in the exams? (Seriously, I don't think summoning a gigant frog on the battlefield will get you points as chunnin outside of outstanding skill).
@@kellyjohana516 The whole point of the Chuunin exam was to show off skill and tech as a ninja. So ppl hire you for missions. having a summon plus other skills would make him favorable in missions that require a heavy handed tactic.
Regardless of whether or not Kurama "liked" him, him having his chakra bailed him out of situation after situation. Can't say that's hard work
“buT bUt… He wAS lOnlEy”
Agreed
@@lonesome1689 More like him having Kurama bail him out of certain situations came at the cost of social ostracization which resulted in a critical lack of attention on his ninja ability resulting in him being ranked the lowest in his graduating class, but keep up the strawman! It’s what you Naruto haters do best!
This is a strawman argument and the main theme of naruto isn't hardwork over talent. Every so called bailing out by Kurama came with a cost. You're so focused on the wrong theme. Besides hardwork isn't some linear thing. Hard work is hardwork no matter what. You're focusing solely on combat and nothing else. To say Naruto didn't work hard thought the series is a blatant lie and disregard for everything. You Naruto haters and your narrow minded views on things. All you lot do is regurgitate what you hear without every thinking about it. Y'all some NPCS for real.
@@razinghavoc7419came with a cost? What cost did he pay by defeating Neji? He got adoration and gave a speech
Weirdly enough I was talking to my friend about Naruto and he actually didn't like it. He thought Minato took away from Naruto as it was as though he didn't make it on his own but just another version of his father, doesn't help he also had the 9 tails
Naruto did not know who his father was until his teenage years.
Everything until that meeting when Naruto was about to remove the seal, he did without Minato.
Of course, Minato's and Kushina's genes were pretty helpful. But that is a sorry excuse of why not to like Naruto. He did it on his own, he surpassed Minato when he was like what, 16? He perfected the Rasengan, he mastered Sennin Mode, perfected KCM.
@@NM-ev7pu yeah and I agree but he just seems like a clone of his father
Nah, Gohan is more of a clone of Goku, he literally stole / copies his dad's attacks and fighting style.
Tje only thing Naruto and Minato have in common fighting wise is that they both can use the Rasengan, except Naruto created more advanced versions of the Jutsu.
@@davora8954 Gohan was *taught* those by both his Father and his Father's Best Friend and even those moves *from his Father* are copied.
*Master Roshi taught Goku the Kamehameha Wave.*
*King Kai taught Goku the Kaioken.*
The fuck are you even talking about???
Let's not forget that kurama's seal. Greatly affected naruto's chakra control and had no one to teach him how to properly control it till jiraiya
lets not forget he had charkra because of the nine tails, he never knew what charkra was nor how it worked even tho he went to school for it.
not for Kurama he would of died atleast 10x before the end of Naruto original series.
@@raizelshadez3122 well if he had kurama wasn't messing with his chakra control and he had both his parents to teach him jutsu he wouldn't even need kurama... His own chakra was 4 times greater tha kakashi's as genin. Kurama was more of a nuisance than assistance to naruto for most of the series
This. People forget Naruto only knew Shadow Clones because anything less than A-rank was hard for him. He had too much chakra and like no control.
It’s like trying to do surgery with an axe.
@@raizelshadez3122 the kuruma seal stunted the growth of naruto and actually made him dumb. he could've been as strong and smart as minato if not for the seal
Yeah, and then in like what 2 years he is able to get it down pat. Nevermind that other people spend decades of their life trying to get the degree of chrakra control Naruto had before he was even 18. But then again not everyone can be trained by the white wolf and the Legendary Toad Sage. But yeah...total underdog.
There's no denying Naruto worked hard. He was even extremely talented as a child. I never got why he was always called a talentless loser. He had more experience fighting high level ninjas and using secret jutsus than most of the Ninja in the village even before the chunnin exam
I think the sad part of naruto is that he was so desperate to be loved he allowed all to use him. However I think his greatest issue is his laxness and laziness.
Naruto Lazy????? you're high.
@@joshuawentzel5249 So you're saying that Naruto trained more than Guy and Rock Lee??
@@bdg1970 yes.
@@combatlightning9481 I'm just saying, Naruto worked harder than Lee. Guy is an argument but definitely Lee. A lot of people downplay Naruto for some reason, I just wanted to clear that up
Warrior Combatlighting I guess that’s true
This video is everything I've ever thought about naruto, the prophecy and more. The fact that people think naruto was handed everything is just ... Ludicrous. You know what happens when you have great physical potential and NOTHING else? You become gaara.
I don't fault people for having that opinion, but I fault them for having it blindly. I honestly think a lot of the people who think this barely watched/read Naruto or even didn't at all.
@@ducksoop.x I honestly feel the same way. I also feel like people who feel this way are only looking the shounen elements of naruto while completely disregarding the emotional elements of the story and how one impacts the other, hence my gaara comment.
Mel u know why they call a minority going from the hood to a 6 fig inc. A success story and not an underdog story? Because emotional journey is almost completely irrelevant in context.
It doesn't matter that everyone i knew Was raped or killed, or the aggressor, if i had a decent standard of living and the equivalent of a full scholarship and a internship-to-hire program set up for me before I'm even born.
Your last sentence brought back the feels between naruto and gaara for me.
Naruto understood gaara more than anyone else, he even went so far as to say that he could've become like gaara had he not have had people who showed up in his life a little later on.
The fact that they're good friends to this day still warms my heart.
You're an idiot
A demon that could have harmed him... except he was destined to tame that beast and all the other beasts which by extension gives him that powerup that would pretty much ensure he achieved his dream and garnered fame....
But you left that part out... kinda like you didn't pay attention to the story, which you've accused others of doing.
In part 1, Naruto is an underdog, mostly. I can agree with that. But it didnt stop at part 1, now did it? The moment destiny/prophecy was introduced into the story, he stopped being an underdog. Period. It's not my fault, or the fault of others that part 2 undermined part 1. That's on the writer.
You can call us "NPCs" if you want but this video is:
-Fan of (insert anime) finds a criticism of a favored anime and dislikes the criticism.
-Fan recaps the story, pointing out obvious stuff as a counter to the criticism as if the critic didn't know and take those obvious things into consideration.
-Fan tries to say the critic didnt pay attention/understand/(insert bullshit here).
-Fan resorts to name calling.
In one video, you've literally done everything I've ever encountered when discussing this with people both irl and online. Might wanna look in a mirror before you throw shit at people.
Oooof big fax fam
+E E Right on spot, Naruto is a fake under-dog
You left out the part where he worked hard to achieve those things.
Naruto is an underdog because he was expected to fail but didn't, it's really that simple. 'Destiny' is irrelevant, people who use that as an argument don't even understand the concept.
@@kristianperez4108 Rock Lee is more of an underdog than Naruto, no ninjutsu, no genjutsu.Naruto didn't have it the worst, Rock Lee also had no parents, just like Naruto.
@@dani09432 He's a more relatable one, at the very least. Whether or not one is better comes down to individual preference.
Where'd you get that info about Lee's parents? I don't remember them ever being mentioned.
No friend? I could have sworn, he hanged out with shikamaru and choji.
That was anime filler
When an npc calls you an npc smh. 🤦🏻♂️ it seems like you think people are just listening to pog without forming their own opinions I’ve seen his video and I’ve watched the entire series of Naruto and I agree with pog on a lot of points I’m not saying Naruto didn’t struggle but he’s definitely not an underdog either. Having a sad back story doesn’t make a character an underdog yet you still say Naruto is an underdog because of his upbringing. Everyone knows Naruto had to train to achieve his power but he was still born with so many genetic advantages as well as made the Jinchuriki of the leaf village and trained by the best of the best that he can’t be classified as an underdog he has too many advantages from the start to be considered an underdog that’s the whole point plague of gripes was trying to make. Also Naruto didn’t master the Rasenshuriken he invented it.
Npc who likes his own comment
@@ClydeCZcamsr lol that’s why you can’t even form a proper argument to refute any of POG’s points.
@@I_Hate_Atom_Eve in a video that’s made to refute the points POG made. Yeah him clowning you about liking your own comment means he totally can’t formulate any refutation to those points. I bet you disliked his reply. You’re not even an NPC, they have more brain power than you.
@@yokaihorizon2931 I guess he can like it 10 times huh
@@yokaihorizon2931 But he didn't refute any of Plagues points did he now? He just talked about how Naruto is a underdog when he clearly is not. Plague made tons of points and he chose one and couldn't even refute that one, you Sir are a joke.
Naruto tells neji destiny can be changed
Also naruto:becomes the child of destiny
Yeah he becomes it not that he was it from the start. Minato could have become it. Nagato could have become it. Yahiko or konan could have become it but only naruto became it because he had ideals that would have suited to it. Not anybody else.
And Nagato WAS a child of destiny except he lead the world to destruction untill his change of heart.
He changes his destiny though?
Cadamban Kannan So because Naruto is optimistic by nature THATS why he became destined for greatness. Yeaaa alright.
@@cadambankannan5419 he literally was it from the start though.....he was the reincarnation of the moon alien space child
His destiny was for him to die and he changed it.
Sakura wasn't helping how during the Pain attack? She was literally in charge of the entire medical staff during the attack because neither Shizune nor Tsunade could take charge of it. She was the only other person qualified. She was doing her job as a medical ninja.
Her village was attacked. There are plenty of medical ninja, but non that can crush a rich with their fist. Yes, she might have as well did nothing. Its a Shonen Manga and she wasn't fighting.
@@Cyborg_Lenin Do you not know how to read? She was only one who could lead the medical personnel at that time. What part of that do you not understand? It was literally against the law for her to fight on the front lines as a medical without having mastered the Byakugou yet. Not everyone in Shounen stories have to be fighters either. Healers are just as important.
you miss the entire point congrats.
You didn't watch the video congrats
@@jin4712 the point of the video mentioned was about narutos bad ideology, not his struggles
@@jin4712 You didn't watch the right video clearly then.
@@finnish_hunter I did. The video debunks itself just by watching/reading the series
This dude really said kurama ain’t help naruto in till the war cmon Clyde. Neji? Sasuke? any fight in naruto?
Indeed Naruto would be dead without the fox
Kurama also - made him unable to make a normal clone, which makes him fails the class and also be the lowest skilled student in the class. Walking on water, trees all were also made much harder.
Any jutsu was exponentially harder to learn because of how massive the chakra pools were from Kurama.
Also made Sage learning much much harder because Kurama kept fucking with Naruto's chakra.
Don't rule out convenient stuff just to prove your point. Naruto was trying to be killed by people because of kurama... but hey atleast kurama healed him.. how dumb is that
@@A_000 I don’t remember much of Naruto but if the fox messed up his clones then why was he able to make shadow clones so perfectly besides plot? Heck if I remember right he makes the absurd amount he does because of the fox energy in him.
@@theonewhouploadsnothing1704 So the more chakra you have, the harder the chakra control is.
Normal clone jutsu is given to students because it has very very less chakra consumption, and so needs very little control. Makes sense to give that to students.
But Naruto didn't have a normal students chakra. Because the amount of chakra he had meant he needed to have incredible ridiculous amounts of chakra control to pull it off.
Reason why he fails a lot and comes deadlast in the class, because of student level jutsus he couldn't perform at all. P.S - Also why Rasengan took him years to master.
The shadow clone jutsu is a jonin level jutsu because it consumes high amounts of chakra and needs very very little control. But in exchange you get solid clones.
Okay...and? Kurama taking control still gives him an ultra power boost and basically guarantees him the win, I'm not sure in what universe you can claim this isn't a cop out
Also wdym moronic you can't go "Karama only helped naruto to weaken the seal" then go "if kurama let him die he'd get to respawn", it's contradictory...if anything that just proves kurama was willingly a cop out
Again with this contradictory bullshit "naruto doesn't get shit handed to him" followed by "naruto is insanely talented and learnt the kage bushin in one day"
Do I even need to watch the rest of the vid???
🗑️🚮
@@twtad4551too stupid to debunk stuff i see
my thoughts exactly, after he made that point about naruto mastering the multi-shadow-clone jutsu in one day i just stopped watching and went to the comments 💀
Remember, it’s dog powers
thank you for this! i've been watching Naruto since i were 12, i'm 22 now and this show still makes me cry at times :P
When you started talking about jiraya I started getting tears in my eyes
I love this vid man, when someone verbalizes and gives insight into the heart of the Naruto series it is a powerful thing
having watched both videos, i'm sorry but i'm going to have to side with plague. once you find out about naruto's parents and all the power he has inherited from his bloodline, it no longer matters how hard he works or what he had to overcome. naruto becomes less of a character you can relate and becomes a case study of nature overcoming nurture, which entirely contradicts the theme of starting with nothing and earning what you have through determination and hard work. i appreciate the argument you make on why people should show more sympathy to naruto the planet buster (probably wasnt a good idea to end the video mentioning that), but that's not the issue plague was arguing
Naruto didn't inherit anything from his parents, not Minato's intelligence and certainly not whatever benefits the Uzumaki had (pretty sure large chakra reserves wasn't one but that is also because of Kurama so hard to tell how much of it was effected by him. It was also a double-edged sword as it made his control shit.) Every fight he ever had he eventually won only by using Kurama's chakra.
@@SpaceAustralia wasnt the whole point of this video to debunk the accusation that naruto was only strong because he was dependent on kurama
@@TehSpessPiret Didn't watch the video but if that was the point I'd have to disagree. I was only replying to the part of your comment where you said he inherited all this so called power from his bloodline when he didn't inherit anything. Actually, the only thing he "inherited" was Kurama being sealed inside him.
@@SpaceAustralia Didn't he? Even if you want to say he didn't "inherit" anything from his parents, who his parents were allowed him the opportunity to train with the best ninja in the village. You think Jiraiya's training Kiba or TenTen just cause? Nepotism does play a role in Naruto getting to were he is, do you think he would still be as strong as he is if he only trained with Iruka? Or ended up on team Kurenai? Do you think he would have been Hokage?
but he is or was that red fox beating haku just my imagination? kurama being unfriendly doens't have any relevance
Naruto:Im an underdogObito:WHO DECIDED THAT?!??!???
☀️
☝️
Kishimoto
but naruto only did any serious damage to neji and sasuke after getting some chakra from Kurama.
Sauke had orochimaru's powerup. And for neji he only used the power to reopen the tenketsu not in the final blow which came from underground by tricking Neji.
@@cadambankannan5419 even if sasuke had a powerup that doesn't negate my point. Also, naruto fought for about 2 minutes with neji with a red chakra glow, which means that he was using Kurama's chakra.
@@cadambankannan5419 I agree that the final blow was all him, but without Kurama's chakra he wouldn't be able to get back to the fight and hold his own against Neji for so long.
Well Naruto outsmarted neji. If it weren't for that, who knows how the fight would have ended...
@@Szellah7 doesn't really matter since he could have beaten neji without kurama
Naruto, not just as a character but as a series in general, had a huge impact on me as an Anime fan and a person. The emotional moments, life lessons, and perspective bending ideologies are still top tier in my opinion. Even with the admitted flaws of the series. I had a pretty bad childhood plagued with physical/mental/emotional abuse, a history of mental health issues that spawned from that trauma, addiction in later years, and grew up in a lower class neighborhood. Naruto himself isn't even in my top 5 favorite characters from the series. But I always admired his character, empathy, and stone-like resolve in the face of such adversity and hardships. The very definition of an under-dog 💪🏻As a kid he honestly inspired me when I felt like I was alone and hurting to not give up. Without trying to sound dramatic with all this, I believed in him. A truly great and iconic Anime protagonist 💯 Thanks for reading my book... 😅🤣
STOP USING FILLER EPISODE
this content is solid please drop more I love your work
One of the saddest moments is when Naruto started hyperventilating. It was so sad to see my favourite character struggling this hard after coming so far
After watching this the whole way through im pretty sure you and plague are coming at this from the wrong point
Plague is arguing everytime naruto says that hard work beats nature talent that the show proves him wrong, being born better makes you better, while you are arguing naruto is an underdog because he had to struggle in life like anyone else if not more thanks to his so called destiny, neither of you are disproving the other just arguing on different wave lengths
Plague is wrong is his assumption that the shows theme was hard work beats natural talent when its actually arguing prove those that would call you a failure wrong, and you're wrong because being the child of destiny never meant naruto's life would be easier just that he would be destined to fight indra's reincarnation to the death and while he did change that destiny it never dictated his strength if sasuke got stronger naruto had to get stronger and vice versa naruto could be both an underdog and have a destiny
thank you
@@sakkuyniron9756 dont see why you are thanking me, i can get used to plague pragmatic view of literature and media, i dont agree with his views on FF7R, but when it comes to anime fans defending something they like they tend to ignore the point they should be disproving and turning it into, "everybody suffers so why cant you understand the social commentary that helped me not feel like a loser growing up" like that isnt the point, i dont need your life story of why you relate to naruto just talk about why destiny doesnt matter
@@sdbzfan1 Because you're an actual reasonable person in a Naruto comment section. You're a rarity.
@@sakkuyniron9756 well thanks
Ah yes just like a rich man talking about hard work etc, while his wealth originally were from his father.
"For all we know Rock Lee had parents" yeah, well for all we know he didn't. It works both ways
The Ronin exactly
But he most likely did
Naruto Uzumaki and what makes you believe that??
@@joejames1794 I mean, everyone in the konoha eleven other than Naruto and Sasuke did, so I'm assuming
Naruto Uzumaki can’t just assume things because your on the other side of the argument. If it isn’t in the anime (canon) or manga it doesn’t exist it’s simple.
15:57 wasn’t iruka kinda his father figure?
Exactly
The Legend 27 weren’t they more like brothers till after toad boi died lololol
Not until he was tricked into stealing the scroll, so he was pretty alone until he became a genin.
Fools Fury
In the anime filler only. In canon they were at odds until the scroll thing. So for 12 years of Naruto’s life he only really had the ramen people and the Third. A lot of scenes of him having fun when young are filler and don’t count.
In the last episode of Shippuden Naruto asked Iruka to be his father at his wedding
If you watch Naruto vs Neji, it explains everything on why he's an underdog. Something that especially gets me is when Naruto tells him that he started off with no natural talent, and that he failed the grad exam 3 times because of his now specialty, the shadow clone jutsu.
He only won because of kurama dumbasd
@@Coolguy-or8ex If Kurama's chakra was all Naruto had going for him, he still would've lost because he wouldn't be able to use the Shadow Clone jutsu to get the upper hand at the last possible moment. Remember, in the fallout of their last clash after Naruto powered up, Neji was still left standing, while the Naruto clone was pretty much done. If that had been Naruto himself and not his clone, he very well may have lost that fight as he might've been to exhausted to deliver that last punch to Neji.
I agree with this video, naruto really affected me it’s crazy because u watch this kid change so much and overcome his struggles despite all the hardships that he can’t escape, and this video just reminded me of all the lessons involved
Same here, Naruto has thaught me some pretty memorable lessons on how to not let life let you down
...
No cap that middle part had me like “stfu I’m not crying your crying”
Respect for this response as a Naruto fan
7:05 Actually Clyde, even that is not the case because when Naruto was having his first conversation with Hagaromo, Hagaromo says something like "You didnt gain anything from your parents." or something like that just like Ashura (who Naruto is the reincarnation of) didnt gain anything from Hagaromo but Indra did. Which is something ppl also forgot.
Also in the 4th shinobi war the first hokage even claimed Naruto had even more chakara than himself, more than the guy who could take control of multiple jinchuriki, even without the nine tails chakara.
I think most people don't know what it means to be an underdog. Not having parents has nothing to do with being an underdog, Sauske had everyone taken from him, and being the last of his kind, yet he was seen as the best in the school and the one to beat, which means the opposite of an underdog.
Brian Vigh THANK YOU.
naruto had no parents and everyone hated him so idk what point you’re trying to make
@@imani7979 The point is that he was absurdly overpowered due to his lineage and the 9-tails, and so wasn’t the underdog in terms of power/strength
@@sungod9797 he was emotional a underdog
@@christianpain7380 he had uzumaki chakra reserve and a tailed beast and he was gifted ashura powers that no one else can get through hard work except him
For example what does Rock Lee has that no one else can get through hard work? Nothing he is an underdog without any special powers or tailed beast or special eyes and everyone can get the iner gates if they train hard enough
Basically Naruto was a genius who was depressed and had no parents to push and motivate him. So in a sense he was an underdog in life.
he's not genius tho
@@jamessillon9228 he was in a quirky way
He was not depressed, sad but not depressed. Depression is characterized by a persistent depressed mood and lack of interest in almost everything. Naruto was the exact opposite he was highly motivated and expressed extreme interest in becoming Hokage. Stop throwing that word around, he sad sometimes but not depressed.
@@shawnboahene5231 You know smiling depression is a thing, right?
@@theblackevapilot8096 yes I do but again they still have the symptoms of depression. Meaning no motivation people with smiling depression appear to be motivated but are not. Naruto doesn’t appear to be motivated, he is, unless he is pulling the greatest act ever. Smiling depression is a mask but Naruto is not really wearing one his outlook is always an optimistic he believes he can become hokage even when he was all alone and no one believed in him
Lee - physical underdog
Naruto - Emotional underdog
naruto is both... lee isnt even an underdog
Yes for the first part. Definite no for the second part. It felt like in the first part he succeeded in spite of the plot being against him but in the second part he succeeded because the plot way on his side.
B train thats because at that point most people had already started recognising him which was part of his goal in part 1 and started to get training with stronger people like Jiraiya.
Part 1 was more about his starting as the underdog and working his way up and proving himself to others.
Part 2 was when he had proved to most NOT ALL that he was capable things.
Gabz it has nothing to do with him proving himself. Let’s be honest Naruto got that extra special treatment. A underdog wouldn’t be deemed the child of prophecy. He had a unique cloak unlike killer bee. To top it off he got one of the most bs power ups towards the end.
@@btrain3559 Yeah, no. Maybe if u listened carefully, Naruto's life was shit and had nobody to comfort him. If u somehow think Lee is an underdog, u are just delusional. And complete bullshit, Madara had special treatment. He was fucking OP. Just stop. Plus, Boruto has more special treatment than his father. How did Naruto have any special treatment becuz plot doesn't matter. In fact, the plot itself makes him an underdog so, u are just wrong here.
@@sirmikalus9923 a reincarnation of a god is an underdog? Every single time he "proves" himself its a direct result of his gigantic chakra. Which is a direct result of Kurama. He was never an underdog.
The guy who took him out of his depression died to one of the very students who taught him. In his quest for revenge, he ended seeing one of the few people who was genuinely nice to him gets impaled in front of his eyes and was asked " do you hate me?" The demon fox who had been trying to take over his body for the past 16 years of his life (24/7) saw his oppurtunity and took it all while still bearing the weight of not being able to bring back Sasuke and sensing that Kakashi Sensei had also died from Pains attack.
as someone that has suppressed their emotions, has anxiety and may have depression it is such a good thing to see someone start this conversation in the anitube community.
I hope you’re doing ok now
heres that attention you ordered
@@orangiat3619hahaha you found out his real desires
You said so yourself, Kurama did assist Naruto, for the purpose of having his seal lifted. Regardless of his feelings, he gave Naruto the means to win where Naruto otherwise could not have won. This is the crux of the argument, Naruto does not win by his own hard work, he uses his born gifts (Kurama) and training from those who only saw potential in Naruto due to him possessing Kurama. Also note you mention the many "talents" he possesses due to his lineage, another point made in the gripes video. Yeah so there are points where Naruto does work hard, most of these are in the Shippuden arcs. Naruto's original characterization was as a delinquent who had no drive to learn but nonetheless wanted to become the Hokage. And then blah blah blah depression, that is not pertinent to the discussion as one's mental state is not relevant to evaluating their natural gifts. The reason Naruto is compared to Rock Lee is because Lee has NO NATURAL BORN GIFTS. All of Lee's feats are strictly due to his training. It all comes down to pedigree.
+Nathan Higgins Exactly, Naruto is a fake underdog.
Are you trolling
@@dani09432 you didn't watch the video and it shows
@@mony6847 And you can't accept that Naruto is not the real underdog.
@@dani09432 you're either dense, didn't watch the video, or are trolling. Naruto is the definition of an underdog. Prove me wrong
the fact that people think the 9 tails was a "talent" "destined power". it rarely acted as a help, rather it affected him mentally, if im correct the chakra rapidly damaged his body during jinchuriki mode. the kyuubi became his power, because naruto made it, through his own efforts, he turned the curse that threatened him and his friends into his power.
It is an insane advantage throughout the serie. Literally the reason why Naruto won all of his fights in the first part. Give you more endurance stamina accelerated regeneration more powerful chakra than pretty much everyone. It didn't start back fire until part 2 and even in part 2 Kurama us reason why he could have beat Pain.
@@zombie92110 Kurama ain’t the reason he beat pain lol
@@George-jc3mt It is thanks to Kurama that he broke Pain' s black receivers injured and tired Pain to the point were he started spitting blood in his main body freed himself from the chibaku tensei (witch is almost impossible for a normal ninja as we saw later) and so on. He was stuck before that. Even Hinata intervention felt short. It's also thank to Minato's technic who allowed him to intervene while Naruto was losing control and put him back on the driver sit just in case Naruto didn t have enough help. So yes it is safe to say that if Naruto wasn't a jinchuriki he might have never won this fight.
@@zombie92110
It is also thanks to pain that he couldn't fully use sage mode and had to resort to tricks to increase sage mode time, ma and pa could have been sitting on his shoulders which wouldnt have let him out of sage mode. Pain caught Naruto while he was out of sage mode and actually trying to save Pa. All of this could have been prevented had Kurama not interfered with them.
Plus Naruto's victory was also due to sealing back of Kurama
He’s an outcast not an underdog
Police: Where do you live?
Me: With my parents
Police: Where do your parents live?
Me: With me
Police: Where do you all live?
Me: Together
Police: Where is your house?
Me: Next to my neighbors house.
Police: Where do your neighbors live?
Me: Next to my house.
Police: Where is your neighbors house located?
Me: You won't believe me if I tell you...
Police: TELL ME!
Me: Next to my house!
Waw this video made me cry for some reason. Thank you for your perspective on the series!
you know a scene that pissed me off when sakura was talking to sasuke about how she was disgusted about naruto not having parents
your positives and negatives are very one sided, those characters had those traits at different points in series, therefore compering them as if they were all around at all times is misinforming.
Plague's main point was that Naruto was priviledged through his genetics and due to his inheritance as the 4th Hokage's son. Also Kurama may have used Naruto as a tool but that does not change the fact that indirectly he "saved" him from battles where he should either lose to or die. Also Naruto being "the child of prophecy" is a huge change in direction from the initial narrative of the story.
Of course Naruto had to overcome a lot of struggles and I also agree that the narrative depicts clearly that the strength and wisdom of Naruto's character were major factors for his triumphs. However the narrative also depicts clearly that Naruto wasn't an everyday "normal child" due to genetics, inheritance and ancient prophecies.
You're missing the point of the video. His argument is that Naruto is a MENTAL UNDERDOG
Naruto is a social underdog, and outcast.
To me Naruto is a psychological and societal underdog
@B Jones you can be both
@Saxophone true
@@mony6847 but... that has nothing to do with A Johnson's comment. He was saying that Naruto is an outcast, not saying that Naruto isn't an underdog.
Jessie Chen I know. I just wanted to make it clear
What does that even mean?
12:56 I can’t believe you didn’t mention Iruku. If it weren’t for him Naruto would’ve taken the same path Sasuke & Gaara did. He would’ve been no different from the villains without him. Also you forgot Kakashi
Naruto was handed his special powers to him from bloodlines, but he still had to work for it, like Naruto couldn’t didn’t go into the Chunin exams with KCM or Toad Sage, he worked a FUCKTON for both (Especially these two)
Not gonna lie I kinda used to feel extremely stupid for being so touched by an anime that it drove me to tears. Because as you said people claim to relate but their struggles are often minimal compared. But I have suffered from depression, ptsd, mental issues, mental and physical abuse, foster care, etc. So I totally got how badly depression and abandonment can be an almost immovable hurdle no matter HOW talented or gifted you are. Depression does not care about potential or even about opportunities...it can devastate someone born with a silver spoon as mich as someone poor and having nothing.
Didn't Kurama revive Naruto when he died during Naruto and Sasuke's first fight?
The point of the video was supposed if he was an underdog, which he wasnt, he was literally given kurama, regardless on thier relationship is a major strenght to him, he literally stopped being "weak" during the zabuza ark which was like 20 episodes into the series
One word DESTINY
You're not right in the head too ain't ya
As you said he was destined for many things. He's the son of the 4th Hokage, reincarnation of the son of the sage, bearer of the 2nd most powerful tailed beast and so much more. Did he put in some work? Sure but is he even close to an underdog? Not even remotely close.
Suffering some emotional trauma doesn't automatically make somebody an underdog.
Oh and the 8 gates technique can fight off a 10tailed Madurawhen mastered but it kills the user after it's used. Can't really call that a positive.
2 defs to under dog
you made no sense but its ok.... everything you said is also wrong
@@chidubemnwanisobi6037 of course it wont make sense to u because u r narutard for narugay
"A person who has little status in society." is the type of underdog your going for but that's still a problem. By the time he knocked out Neji he had already earned his classmates respect, most of the villages respect and took down a tailed beast at 13. Rock Lee & Shikamaru were better in my opinion.
Facts right here 💯💯💯👌
naruto still was the person who everyone thought of as a joke
kmphysics it took him 13 years to finally be acknowledged by someone. Do you know what that means? 13 years of mental and emotional abuse, and 13 years of not knowing why that was happening. His very first sensei wanted no parts of him, and it wasn’t until he found Jiraiya that he finally had a parental figure in his life. 13 years of abuse and abandonment, being looked at for nothing more than the monster who attacked the village and killed the 4th hokage, at the most important time of your life, is more than enough to make you a underdog
Shikamaru is a genius. Lee had the best teacher in their group, his undivided attention and didn't need to overcome the same hardships or had the same goals as Naruto. It took Naruto to defeat a TB, put a kid back on track and save the village from annihilation to get respect. That is an underdog. Not even talking about the other missions: saving Sasuke from himself and bringing peace.
@Mr X cause he was a little kid
yeah but him being a reincarnate of ashura litterally meant he was destined for greatness. he didnt work for that.