Man... I grew up in a rough(ish) country and knew multiple people who were kidnapped. Some were released, some weren't and lost their lives violently. Living in a safe place can give you a distorted feeling about the world. Sometimes there is no 911, nobody to help you.
@@TheTrevelyansway Some may be spoiled and entitled, but many people who grew up in the US, Canada, Western Europe, Australia, NZ, and maybe Japan, are just nieave and unaware that there are dangerous people, and think they can wander around the streets of a distant city as if they were walking around the neighborhood where they live, or hike into the wilderness or jungle as if they were in a city park near their home.
The problem with "living on the edge" is that it's on the edge". Magical thinking ( bad things happen to other people) can't save one from disasters.Thank you as always Dr Grande 🌷
They were thrill seekers and lived their passion, naively perhaps. OTOH they did not live long enough to lead long boring half lives as corporate drones only to retire, get old, infirm and end up painfully pushing walkers. Is it better to live passionately and die young doing what you love or to live a long boring life devoid of any meaning because all risk was avoided.
Four of the five men who murdered this couple were killed by Tajik security forces. The 5th, Hussein Abdusamadov, believed to be the ringleader, was sentenced to life imprisonment and died in in prison shortly afterwards.
The worst part of this is that those men THOUGHT they were doing good! The concept of retaliation is so ingrained in some cultures as to be more important than life! What can be done with that reality!?
@@bthomson And that 'concept of retaliation' is _deeply_ embedded in the U.S., there's really no disputing that. To give just one example, when the Bush 43 regime was in charge, and launched its invasion of Afghanistan, the Taliban in Afghanistan were prepared to surrender pretty much immediately. Rumsfeld and his sinister cronies weren't interested in that. We were sent there to intimidate, brutalize and show off our tremendous military might. Anything less than that was unacceptable.
I understand their desire to break away from the drudge of the 9-5/staring at a screen all day, but I don't see how 'worldwide bike trip through dangerous territory' is the logical conclusion. Even so, they died in a terrible way that I would never wish on anyone, and I hope they may rest in peace.
We can all empathize with someone who didn't want to be stuck doing the 8 to 5 thing while they're going and vital. Wow, do I! But the majority of us make the responsible choice of doing it to support our lifestyles and families. Jay was so possessed of that that he headed off without adequate funds or supplies (or knowledge) on a worldwide trip and dragged along a person who was there only because she was in love with him. After hearing the full story, I almost have less sympathy for them even if no one ought to die like that.
One thing that Dr. Grande doesn't convey well is that Tajikistan wasn't actually considered dangerous territory then. At the time of their trip the US government listed it as Level 1 travel advisory, which is the lowest level (it's since been changed). The group was even interviewed on Tajik news because the government wanted to attract more tourism and Islamic extremists didn't have a huge presence there! This really is kind of more equivalent to the San Bernardino shooting or Boston Marathon bombing that happened in the United States. Jay and Lauren took risks and were not perfect people, but the particular attack that killed them really was just bad luck. You can decide that this isn't a risk you want to take for yourself...that's perfectly fine. Heck, it's a decision I'd make for myself! I wouldn't personally go on that trip because I don't like discomfort and traveler's diarrhea. But have no sympathy for the mean commenters. On Jay's blog or on this video. As far as I'm concerned all the people writing self-righteous comments about this couple's death are just miserable, nasty people trying to feel better about their sad, pathetic lives! Even if you're right that these people were the dumbest humans to ever live, how did they ever hurt you? They didn't. How does their death make your life better? It doesn't in any material way, it just gives you the chance to self-congratulate over something that doesn't even involve you, because smug self-satisfaction is all you actually have! I'd take being friends with Jay and Lauren over spending even 5 minutes with one of you!
Exactly this! Especially if you are travelling through a known warzone where one side wants to kill westerners... If any random person there asks where you came from, that is already a severe red flag that you are in extreme danger from one side or the other.
Ireland is always a safe answer no one has a beef with the Irish we mind our own business however the UK and USA are targets all over the bloody world they created with colonisation wars and invasions.
Mark Twain once said, "I never let my schooling interfere with my education ". How two Georgetown alumni embarked on this disaster is beyond me. There are also many camping and hiking trips that start as dreams and end up as nightmares. Thanks Dr. G.
do not leave your house under any circumstances. you might have a traffic accident. being knifed by robbers. an earthquake, floods, ........ no matter what your education.
It just goes to show you that education doesn't equal smarts. IMHO, you'd have to be really "not smart" (The Tube doesn't let me use the other 'S' word) to be that naive.
Well put. Washington Phillips refers to the "educated fools" (NO disrespect intended.) Good people often struggle to understand and believe what uneducated Bible readers understand, which is that not everyone is to be trusted, and people can be extremely evil. Sad, such beautiful, people. . .. But it sounds like at least he was not grounded in Biblical teaching.
@Carol Reeves I am not sure what you are referring to, what is your point, Perhaps you misunderstood my comment, bc I am not relating to what you are saying ..
I have never understood how any adult can say evil isn't real. Rape, murder, and genocide are real. Ergo, evil is real. I guess I spent too much of my academic life studying history. However, I agree with the sentiment that people use the word too liberally, such as characterizing someone as evil because they have different opinions.
Jay Austin was a fool, he lived in Washington, D.C. where violent crime is a certainty. Yet he deliberately chose to ignore the existence of evil. He paid a fool's price, and sadly took his girlfriend with him.
@Joey Joe The comment is referring to the naïveté of these people who believed the entire world is like Scandanavia. Their privilege of growing up in a wealthy, peaceful society where everyone is nice, kind, and caring like them. They didn’t believe there are people in the world who are absolute savages, they thought that was just a racist myth propagated by people who aren’t as enlightened as them.
I travelled often by hitch hiking mostly in my homecountry the Netherlands but also to Spain and back. It is true that i encountered the nicest people and was 99% of the time really surprised by the generocity of strangers. I also encountered the remaining 1% . Do not be naive and protect yourself. Don't gamble with your life by thinking that you would'nt come across the psycho's outthere.
The difference is the locations in which you traveled. Those are generally safe countries. I lived in Europe and traveled most of it and never felt unsafe. There are certain countries that I avoided (outside of Europe) intentionally because of several stories like this one. This kind of thing happens in many middle eastern countries, but only a handful make the news in the US.
When I heard his naïveté philosophy of the human condition, and how he assumed people are naturally good (which is not true ), I knew it wouldn’t end well for him and his girlfriend. Tragic. We need to be realistic about the prevalence of evil in this world.
Bicycle from South America all the way back to the United States 👁👄👁…. Meanwhile I literally convince myself that grocery shopping is too much physical effort
Jay’s adventurous and positive outlook and perspectives toward humanity were commendable. How terrible they faced such an awful outcome. May they and their families be in peace. I traveled the world alone in my 30’s, and people used to ask me if I weren’t afraid of possible dangers. Looking back, I wasn’t even concerned about my safety. I guess I was naive and somewhat foolish, but no matter where I would travel to, I always felt right at home. I remember one of my friends telling me, “it’s okay. No one will bother you when they see your US passport.” But time has changed. Just like in Jay and Lauren’s situation, now people in some countries actually are looking to harm the westerners. Thanks for the video, Dr. Grande!
Not sure I agree with the word "cultivate?". Maybe not even " savages?". Seems to me that bad feelings (again to put it mildly!) can be generated by many factors. Inequality and our good 'ole military industrial complex do not endear us to much of the world!
Traveling the world in that fashion is fine, but not having any street smarts about it, and assuming the best in strangers in strange places is just plain stupid. Going to rural Tajikistan, where elements of ISIS/Taliban hid as it borders Afghanistan (this is before Afghanistan fell), kind of baffles me. Why would you choose places like that? This couple screams of 'naive Western tourists travel around expecting special treatment and protection because of who they are' type. I'm sure if there was a map of where they travelled, there'd several dangerous places that they unnecessarily went through.
Well stated. Reminds me of the romantic naivety of Christopher McCandless; I get it, but at some point your luck will run out. Maybe there's a subconscious death drive at play here too with these types of misadventures.
It's not just "special treatment", it's a failure to recognize that there are people in a number of areas of the world who don't distinguish between the actions of the US government, especially acting through their armed forces, and the responsibility of individual US citizens. In other words, as happened in this case, some people are happy to take revenge on US citizens for things that the US government has done. When it comes to the risk of an individual being attacked because of hatred for the government of the country they come from, I suspect that British citizens are second in line, right behind Americans.
When you said "They started their trip in... South Africa" my heart immediately sank. Thank goodness the only problems they had here were flat tires. It could have been much worse. You can't go for a walk alone here. The fact that they survived SA the way they were approaching this is rare in itself... the fact that they made it as far as they did, shows how much luck they must have had. Watching this for the second time, this guy reminds me of the bear guy, Treadwell.
I am a South African. As long as you are sensible and take appropriate precautions, you should be able to travel around without incident. I have walked hundreds of km on mountain and scenic trails in SA and I am still alive. Whereas is London, Uk as opposed to London USA I have had at least 2 dangerous encounters!
Treadwell, John Allen Chau, Sebastian Woodroffe (I am sure there are more) ..... it's quite a list with the same thread running through it : "magical thinking"
Sometimes it's good to be skepitcal and weary of people, especially in areas close to literal warzones. Believing people are inherently good will lead to some kind of misfortune or worse.
No one is immune from harm just because they are nice. Did they recognize the risks involved?! This seems quite naive to me. Really sad. I agree with your analysis; however, I think it is important to consider the political upheaval and desperation that influences the destructive behaviors of the inhabitants of a certain territory. This is so tragic. Thank you for this thought-provoking case.
I think he was selfish too, he risked his partner's life for his enjoyment and probably never asked her if she really wanted to complete the "adventure" or do it in the first place... That's what I call reckless.
Regardless, she made the decision to go along, letting her fear of losing him guide her. Then ignored her feelings of doubt about going home and rejoining him later on.
@@mortishanocturnal71 millions of people visit the park, and so when you apply statistical expectations, you would expect that some of the people will go missing, there will be violence at normal rates, theft, and all kinds of things. Going on to a national park does not remove you from the dangers of being human. However, there are no organized groups of terrorists driving around and murdering people on the park, at least so far.
As Dr Grande said this was an expectional crime. Maybe she was right and statistically it's way more likely to get killed in New York than in Tajikistan.
While I do love the idea of travelling the world and connecting with different cultures, as a Filipino I personally find it tasteless when backpackers visit third world countries and rely on the kindness of locals. Like, why would you travel the world if you have no money. Why not just take out a loan or even max out your credit card.
Omg, so sad. Not everyone is good. Traveling near Afghanistan after 9/11 was a mistake, to say the least. Her anxiety and instincts were right, but she let her fear of loss over-ride them, which is ironic.
Toxic romanticism. They rejected material "excess" but the irony is that they're choice to quit their jobs and travel anywhere in the world they pleased is privilege and a luxury. Their ignorance is offensive
I knew a woman like this. I believe in her case it was hippie religious beliefs that made her believe stuff like this even though bad things had happened to her. She believed if bad things happened it was because you manifested them with negative thoughts.
There is a difference between ignorance and naïveté. I think they were simply naive and believed the best about people. Unfortunately, they found out the hard way that this is dangerous.
@@Catlily5 OMG. Yes those LOA nuts. Manifesting is bs. Tell the starving kids in Africa they need to think more positive, all their fault. So callous & victum shaming😑😣😓😡
My wife and I used to travel to many countries and remote areas where risks were medium to high, but mostly before 2012. Right now, in 2021, we barely go out at all unless we absolutely have to. I reached a point where I don't trust anybody that I don't know any more. The world has gotten infinitely more dangerous since the turn of the millennium.
This isn't true; you're romanticizing the past, the vast majority of which you were never there for. The world has always been full of evil. We just didn't have the hyper-focus of the media we have now. Shitty things have been happening since the beginning of time. Look at the holocaust. The crusades. Slavery. And those are just things we know about. Think about all the things that just weren't documented.
Currently 6 months/6,000 miles into a similar trip on bicycle. Of course I'm worried something might happen, but I'd still rather take the risk than sit at home in comfort. Hopefully I have better luck. Thousands of people have cycled a similar route to this couple and been fine. Meanwhile, my local grocery store in Boulder, CO was shot up by a maniac, killing 10 people. I definitely believe there is evil in the world though, I just hope I'm lucky enough to not encounter it.
Some people stay close to home and never get a passport (I'm thinking Grande is in this closed minded category). Some folks get a passport & fly to Cancun. Some choose to take the path less travelled (as tens of thousands have done over the years). Sure you take a chance but you also live life while exploring the world. I'd rather die doing what I love than wither away in an old folks home connected to tubes and wires! Have fun on your travells. I leave next fall on a round the world overland trip beginning with North & South America.
I’m in the first category: They were too naïve for their own good. To deny that some people are evil is almost insulting to all those who’ve perished due to the actions of cruel and murderous people. I’m sorry, of course, that these four people were killed. And, as a lifelong Brooklynite, I’m sick of people using NYC as a measurement of where people are endangered by crime. I’ll take my city over most any day! 🤠
I'd think that Chicago would take the top spot there are four murders committed there every day I'm pretty sure it's estimated and there could be more or less on a given day
Younger people are usually bigger risk takers. I felt like I was semi invincible in my teens and early 20’s. I used to hitchhike everywhere, go to parties and leave for other parties with complete strangers. Stupid, I know. Once I became a parent my mindset shifted - I had to be there for my family. Maybe I would have matured anyway, but for me, the catalyst was having people need me.
To believe evil is a made up concept..... must have had a pretty easy life up until then if that's the case. I remember when I was a kid I was trick or treating and this old man tried to invite me into his house for the candy. My mom was luckily watching and intervened. She has always made me aware that there are evil people out there. She wouldn't even honk at people because she lived in San Diego and knew it could cost your life
3:50 The narrator says "a man stopped by with his truck…. and took their clothes and put them into the dryer… " I thought that was going to be the beginning of the bad part of the saga. You know, those backpacking Danish gals who were killed in Morocco in 2019 or so, Alexander Supertramp and his Alaskan trip in the early 1990s, The 2 gals who went missing in Panama, Lisanne and Kris, all hark back to this current story. The Idealization of their own abilities, and the perceived abundance of good in the world, can lead to those ppl finding themselves in unrecoverable situations.
Well, evil IS a made up concept, there is no such thing. There are, however, many people who, for different reasons, have severe issues, are dangerous and harm others. It's not evil, it's worse, because it's real. The world is full of abuse of all kinds and to pretend that nothing bad can happen to you when you are in an objectively dangerous territory is naive and also irresponsible. They of course didn't deserve any of this and in the grand scheme of things it was a freak attack but that blog post from Jay was still detached from reality. (I know I it seems like it's just semantics, but it's equally as naive to think it's just some random "evil" that makes people do bad things. It isn't.)
I love traveling. I hope to visit my sister in Kenya in February. I realize they were trying to have a life fulfilling trip, but the way they went through this was so irresponsible and selfish. They didn't deserve what happened to them. Yet... They had to constantly burden other people for their trip. I could understand something bad happening and needing help. But, this isn't that.
Brian - Getting the same vibe from the hermit video! Not really fair to depend on others instead of being self-sufficient. Puts to much pressure on whatever balances the responsibility scales!
This, this right here. Well said. Jay was so selfish as to quit his job and head off without adequate funding or supplies. "I just want do this, so I'm doing it" when you don't have the cash or supplies is something a child would do. And he dragged along a lover, taking advantage of her too, refusing to consider her physical condition and the danger he was putting her in. Knowing the entire context of the story makes me go from pitying Jay for being foolish to despising him.
Yeah this I agree with. Honestly, I'm disgusted by how people are almost revealing their deaths but I recognize that Jay and Lauren were flawed individuals who made some pretty bad decisions at times, and over-relied on others. I just don't think their actions deserved a death sentence, nor deserved for their deaths to be smugly celebrated. They didn't deserve to be killed for it. However, they should have done better in their travels.
I refuse to travel to countries or regions of countries that have significant crime or civil unrest or antiAmerican sentiments. My daughter also has traveled even more than I, and I have convinced her to listen to American State Department warnings before going to anywhere. Research where you are headed- that advice goes for your next adventure in a large city or foreign country.
@@TDubya811 According to Fauxnews, I am not safe in any city controlled by a Democratic mayor or any state with a democratic governor. According to CNN I am not safe in any city or state controlled by a Republican. According to OANN I am not safe in any area with a minority population higher than 1%. According to MSNBC I am not safe in any area not controlled by LBGT politicians. And according to PETA I am not safe traveling in any area not controlled by dogs or cats.
Additionally, some countries have almost medieval cultures. I was married to a Middle Eastern man and I was always surprised how different his culture was from modern America. I said in my own comment here that I, as a female, would not want to traverse a strictly Muslim country wearing the tight, skimpy clothing worn by bikers. Especially not any of the countries with a high level of ISIS or other fundamentalists.
I live in Cape Town and I can tell you that they were lucky not to be killed on day 1!! I don't think anybody who lives here would willingly sleep on the side of a highway and feel safe...
It depends on the country. I visited a country several years ago where I was told you don't want the people to think you are a Russian; tell them you're an American! I don't know if that is still the situation there; they may have realized that most Americans don't give a damn about them.
Just so there is no confusion, Dr. Grande is not diagnosing anyone in this video, he is only speculating what could be happening in a situation similar to this.
Great analysis Dr Grande. I found Jay story sad and inspiring . He got the lifestyle he wanted . He and his girlfriend, shares so many adventures, they found the kindness of strangers .The sad part was their fatal outcome . Thank you Dr Grande. Great topic.
Thank you for your kind words Lauren was my cousin and a wonderful human being. It's different when the story is about your family and so many of these comments hurt my heart. We are still grieving.
@@user-cs1un6sp1wRennata That's the thing, though, you don't hear about all the times when nothing bad happens. If you successfully complete an adventurous trip, then, yeah, maybe you're lucky enough to be Cheryl Strayed and have the talent and connections to get interest in your story and a movie deal. But it's far more likely you'll be any of the thousands of hikers who complete the PCT without any major misfortune, and only ever get a dozen or so messages of congratulations from friends and family. If you get murdered on a big adventurous trip, though...you have a much better chance of everyone hearing about it! National news, maybe international depending on where it happened, then for years after True Crime TV shows and podcasts doing episodes covering your life and, of far more interest to their audiences, your tragic end. Then spin-off analyses and discussion by people like Dr. Grande. You see what I mean? The fact that we only tend to hear about bad outcomes gives a skewed perception of bad always winning, and we forget that the very reason we're so interested when we hear about bad outcomes is because they're unusual!
There's nothing wrong promoting peace, cultural awareness and all that stuff but there are times that you need to use your head. Those terrorists can't be reasoned with or bargained, totally heartless people so to speak. Yes, there's such a thing as a bunch of evil people in this planet. When I heard the deaths of this couple, my feelings were a mix of a pinch of sympathy and more on "what did they expect from a group of heartless killers?" Let this be a lesson to idealists living in their own reality. Actual reality is going to hit you hard like a moving train when sheet hits the fan.
Listen, and understand. That Terrorist is out there, it can’t be bargained with, it can’t be reasoned with, it doesn’t feel pity or remorse or fear, and it absolutely will not stop…EVER, until you are dead!
Great analysis as always. Epicurus and John Dewey, two philosophers with a gulf of thousands of years between them, both say that thrill-seeking is abnormal behavior, probably a symptom of an individual not feeling like a meaningful part one's own society. Edit: I agree with Dr. Grande's assessment that Jay and Lauren are not responsible for what happened to them. I'm not blaming the victims. The sick individuals who slaughtered them and 2 others are wholly to blame. My comment was more a criticism about seeking fulfilment outside of one's self and doesn't really have anything to do with the crime committed.
Humans (mostly men, as you can see in this story) are natural explorers/discoverers. It's why we have developed so many new technologies, settled the entire Earth and are wanting to travel through space. You wouldn't want to live without the "daredevil gene."
Dr. Grande, Your analysis and presentation is fascinating. I appreciate your ability to pare down the complexities of a situation into readily digestible components. I haven’t donated to your patreon yet, but I will, I promise.!!!!! Thank you! ❤️
Loved your narration in this. Of all the ways the couple could’ve met their downfall, I was not expecting death by terrorists. They seemed like a nice couple.
One time, I rode 35 mph away from a hungry German Sheppard and finally outran him. After that, I attached a quick draw canister of mace to my handlebars. After being sprayed, no dog bothered me again. I was a Pollyanna until my mid-thirties. Ignorance is bliss until something bad happens. If people plan to travel into areas unknown to them, they should learn the best ways to stay safe in that culture. The childhood adage “don’t talk to strangers” might have saved their life.
Cute part of the movie "Get Shorty" is the conversation in the barber chairs when the sidekick says he will sleep in a chair because most people die in bed!
@@ursodermatt8809 yes, I agree with you. Of course I talk to strangers. I was just musing on possibilities of strangers in a place that might not like Americans. When I first realized there was true evil in the world, it was at the hands of the man I loved for most.
I got to hand it to them though just head out on an adventure like that. I dont have that in me sure i may have had some dreams earlier to travel more but it has not come to pass. Its just the way it is you meet nice people but there will always be bad apples in any part of the world.
Thank you Dr. Grande for placing the blame directly where it should be - on the shoulders of the sick men who killed these people. Jay was naive and impulsive, but, as you said, this act of violence was out of place even in that country, dangerous as it is. He and the others did nothing to bring their deaths oupon themselves then to cross paths with a group of murderers.
Tajikistan is one of the most corrupt nations out there. Their record for human rights violation is disgusting. Did Jay and Lauren check with the State Department about which countries to avoid? This info is readily available. Even reading the first few paragraphs on Wikipedia would turn most people off from going there. These were sad but avoidable deaths. Instead of weighing their toothbrushes in preparation, maybe they should have spent more time laying out the safest route. RIP Jay and Lauren, RIP.
I’ve never heard of this case. It’s so tragic. We helped some “kindness of strangers travelers” one night in Washington DC giving them a place to stay and some food and supplies for their journey. They where such nice people and we really like following their journey online afterward. They were traveling musicians and they called themselves “the love sprockets”.
I can't help but be reminded of the two young European girls who were murdered in Morocco. Reading the story felt like a punch in the gut. Having returned from Morocco shortly before the girls had arrived, and having explored some of the more "rural" areas with a Moroccan by birth female companion who lived in Amsterdam since childhood, I appreciated how pieced together the country was and how that could be easily misunderstood by a young Westerner thinking it's "safe" because kids post videos shopping in Marrakesh, the Disney world of Morocco. Simply put, It's not like a "country" the way we think of it, and that applies to many countries. Some regions are isolated enclaves of "traditions" that are barbaric to Western sensibilities. For example, I had to make my Moroccan friends stay in the car in a village to go shopping because there were no women around amongst the men. Similarly, she accompanied me to a coffee shop and all eyes were on us. Same thing happened because she had worn shorts when we went for an outing. The reaction from people compelled me to have her change clothes. When you travel you learn to spot things and not rock the boat. Chuck Norris only exist in the movies, and you don't want to find yourself in the "justice system" of some of these places or worse some informal mob or jungle justice. Yeah, these two took risk. Yeah, the guy was a thrill seeker. Ultimately, though, every individual must decide if they believe they are entitled as a human to enjoy this planet. My answer is yes. I'm worthy. That does not mean ignoring precautions or walking around trying to impose my world view on others. It means understanding the systems in place in the world during our time on the planet and navigating it the best we can to live a full life. Cowering in your living room, fearful of every sound, watching every on the news doesn't guarantee a happy long life either.
Same I go ever further and assume the worst outcomes for most people, situations, events, activities etc, this way anything else is a bonus. My life is filled with infinite little moments of gratitude surprise and elation because 99.99% of the time nothing bad ever happens. It's an odd concept/lifestyle choice but its really fascinating. I wonder if there's a word for this?
@@listenanonymous 😂😂 I dunno maybe maybe. I think cynical but I'd rather be a cynic than chopped up with meat cleavers or raped in the back of van or whatevers popular these days
So if almost no percentage of the time bad things happen, then you are living your life in a guarded way for that 1%! Not sure that is reasonable? Glad that mom intervened though!
This couple went travelling the world, they didn’t count on the element of danger that is implied in the word adventure. You set foot outside your home, you might make it back or you might not. At least they tried to live the best lives they could.
I think they were right in that most people try to be good. Most is not all, leaving plenty to do the bad stuff. The more you're out there, the more you will see of everything the world has to offer. They seemed naive about this. Taking precautions is not evil or imperious IMO. It's just smart.
You don’t have to travel to be in danger, plenty of people have had fatal accidents in their own home. You don’t have to go on an adventure to accidentally overdose on drugs or be killed by carbon monoxide poisoning, a fall, choking, drowning, electrical shock, burns or smoke inhalation. You can even be killed in a traffic accident on the way to work.
@@angelatheriault8855 True but when going about my daily life I dont take for granted that I'm safe. I take precautions. I personally admire them for going off on their adventure. While I agree with Dr Grande that the blame is on the killers, there are places in the world we are more likely to find them. I only wish theyd been a bit more careful. More so, I wish Austin had been right and that the idea of bad people was only a myth.
It is statistically more dangerous to commute to work and die in a car crash than dying from a terrorist attack, but it’s a fact that not pondering the dangers of traveling the parts of the world that see more extremists roaming their country looking for innocent/naive westerners to kill is in the realm of being extremely stupid.
I'm from Yemen, but now live in Canada. I will never take this sort of risk in my own country. The first thing western young and old people with this risky plan should know is, the whole world isn't bad, the whole world isn't good either. You have to take extreme safety measures if you are planning to travel anywhere outside your comfort zone. For example in Yemen, when I was little I remember small town leaders and their soldiers kidnapping some oil company workers (mainly if you are a whiteMan or woman of any country, you are a target) to get the government's attention. Some times they kidnapped tourists, but it's rare, because they know tourists come see the city and go home. But the oil workers, they are seen because they were stealing the oil from locals , some locals unlike America own oil rigs and the Americans, and Shell/Europeans have massive plant that they were stealing everything leaving them dry without a single pay to locals. These people are fighting for self preservation. And the western world (mass public) doesn't know anything about this fact because we live in a controlled media society. The middle East self preservation tactics are not court rooms and lawyers... it's their guns and if they see you a threat to their community, they will end you. Unfortunately, the American governance system corrupted the morality of third world nation's leaders by offering money to steal trillion dollars worth of natural resources. This is not spoken about in the media in western society (Biden is forcing OPEC to extract more oil, is one of the problem). It will create another war in the future. USA Created hostility around the world and tensions had began right after WWII because of greed and hoarding for natural resources. That's why you see cheaper gas/food availability in US than anywhere else. As ridiculous as it sounds it's even cheaper than Canada even though Canada has a large oil extraction plant. Another thing is, the Muslim culture is conservative, and if they see a woman traveling with a man, and not dressed as a woman should in their own countries, they immediately assume that these people are coming to change their culture, ruin their morals, or their women and children. You see, you need to understand the culture, politics, and language also to be able to communicated with people. And when you travel in large group your threat will be higher, because they think you came to invade their country, so they take measures with their weapon. Understand that America is the enemy of the world. Next time if you are asked just say Canadian or Germany. or someshit... If you get lucky you'll make it Please be aware, inform yourself about the culture, and understand the language as well before you travel. It's sad ending and senseless killing.
Dr. Grande: Very interesting case! I absolutely agree with your analysis and thought process. This couple seemed naive, and put their faith and luck in the hands of others. They did not calculate the risk to benefit ratio precisely. Thank you again for covering interesting cases like this, where we all can learn from their experiences.
I think their deaths in that place were absolutely the epitome of being a result of their risk taking behaviours. They went to a country which is next door to one with which their own nation has been engaged in an invasive war for 20 years. There is no doubt that every nation bordering Afghanistan has had experience with bombs and drones falling on them and their people because that shit just happens in every single warzone ever since bombing has been a thing in warfare. Surprisingly enough, dropping big splodey objects from several thousand feet in the air isn't always as precise as it's made out to be in terms of who gets damaged. Then they go and tell people they're from the very country with which these people's nearest neighbours are at war. As if the only reaction they expected was possible to that information would be "Oh wow I always wanted to meet some of you people and invite you back to mine for cous-cous and tea" What these fools failed to understand is that people are not basically good or bad. People wherever you meet them re basically the same. Some are just lovely, some are utter b@stards and most of them believe that any war their nation is involved in has them fighting on the side of goodness and rightness and far too fucking often, of god. Everyone must be definition believe that their enemy is evil. Someone to be feared, attacked and vanquished for the purposes of self preservation. That belief is essential or no bugger would support the friggin' wars. What reaction do you think that a couple of Afghanis in traditional dress, cycling through the backblocks of Cousenfucken Falls Kentucky might get then? Yeah not exactly a welcome wagon, right?
Actually most people in Kentucky are very polite, and they wouldn’t do anything to a couple of Afghans on bicycles. Much more likely to get attacked and murdered in a big city with high crime.
With all his book smarts, he acually believed there was no evil in world? I feel so terrible for how that all turned out for them, but planning and research is absolute key! Such a great analysis and thought you put into this, Dr. Grande!! Dr. Grande
This video just popped up in my recommended section today and had me very surprised to see Jay's face. My wife worked with Jay in DC and I was the person that helped him design his tiny house. To add context to this discussion, Jay figured out that he would rather "retire a little each year" instead of wait until his late 60's to see the world. The smaller trips mentioned at the beginning we part of his efforts to see the world but also test his ability to rely on himself. Part of that testing included a one-day hike from DC to Harper's Ferry (roughly 65 miles) to test how long he could walk in a day without series issues or negative effects in the following days. Jay was always willing to take help from strangers and to offer help in return, but most of his exploring and adventures were about pushing himself. The description of planning the trip as a way to "live on the edge" is only half true. Yes, Jay tried to push himself, but planning to make it so that he would rely on others for help or to "save him" is about as farm from the truth as I can imagine. I do appreciate you pointing out that so many people pointed to him and Lauren as being "dumb Americans" who knew nothing before deciding to bike through a "third-world country." The attack was the first ISIS attack in the entire country and resulted in the government erecting a memorial in honor of the four killed. Tajikistan was not even on the US radar as a travel advisory at the time and was seen as the harder bike route, but the safer path to bypass the exact safety issues most people on the internet accused them of seeking out or being blissfully unaware of. For those wondering exactly where the attack took place, here is the Google Maps link to the location (the small memorial site can be seen as a bump out on the side of the road when viewing the satellite image) - maps.app.goo.gl/kudnuWkas8AV5oUm6. Just south of the site is the Kayonush Market where the cyclists were first spotted by the ISIS extremists and just a little south of that is the village where Jay and Lauren spent the night with a wonderful family on an olive farm just east of the small town of Sargazon.
It's so sad to hear about these trusting ppl. Who are intelligent as well, finding themselves in these positions 🤔 not the first couple won't be the last. But still very sad none the less. I get it, I love to travel.. but you do need to be very aware and careful. Great coverage 👏
Robert Baker : thank you for providing this valuable and informative follow-up information. As a regional and would-be world bicycle adventurer myself as well as a student of the history of bicycle travel I want to yell from the rooftops that travel by bicycle is one of the safest and most rewarding ways anyone can see the world and that the bicycle itself can act as a peace ambassador.
This couple may have had a safer, more comfortable trip, if they planned and prepared better for it. However, if they were intent on going to a country where Americans are hated, this would have happened, anyway. They should have stayed away from there. Thanks for this very interesting analysis, as always. Dr Grande, you've done it again! 🤗❤
These men felt that they had reason to exact retaliation on US citizens because of damage done by the US government. An eye for an eye may be their belief system? I absolutely do NOT agree with that but the cyclists were in their country.
It's one thing to take a measured risk occasionally, but another to be constantly taking unknown risks. Their luck had to run out sooner or later. She knew this but decided to die with her love anyway.
Great analysis 💯. I am happy that number of Doctor Grande’s subscribers are growing so fast and hopefully more young people watch these videos to learn best of life lessons. Thank you so much doctor 🧡.
Wow, this was very interesting. I agree more with the second opinion from people. There is evil everywhere but we can’t let that stop us from actually living. Of course be as informed and prepared as possible but I also believe things do “happen”. Sending my condolences to all the families. Peace. 🙏🏻🙏🏻✌️✌️
Wow what a frightening case! I get wanting to experience nature- you do miss so much when you have to go to work. I myself would have stayed in the USA for the trip. There is plenty to see here. I’m not saying it’s not dangerous here- but maybe not as bad? Thanks for bringing to light another fascinating story I never knew about!🤠💕
As someone who has lived abroad, including the Middle East, I can relate hard to their philosophy. Most people around the world showed me amazing kindness. Unfortunately, there are still damaged and sadistic people everywhere too.
Many people of this kind are thinking that " unprovoked and assertive love" will go a long way to secure a better world when sometimes it irritates radicals who don't want to be manipulated into a loving kindness kind of lifestyle...
Ron - Very true! As middle class Americans ( which most of us are!) We sometimes (often!) believe the best and forget that much of the rest of the world is not rosy and well fed! There is obvious resentment of inequality!
People please remember our family is still grieving. Lauren is so loved and deeply missed. I know everyone likes to have a take but it's important to remember the people who died here died a public horrifying death. I remember my family asking if there was any way to get the news to stop playing the video of their death, it was awful.
sorry for your loss. The only thing I dont like about these videos is the jokes. its disrespectful in my eyes but the info conveyed is what keeps me coming back. again, so sorry for you loss. she seemed like a great person
Danger aside, this kind of traveling sometimes doesn't sit right with me morally. Quitting a job to go traveling for months, or years, is not something most people in the world have the luxury of doing. So to travel through regions like that, and on a budget that almost certainly requires reliance on the kindness of strangers for survival, that feels to me like flaunting of privilege.
exactly, and even if this had been a "close call" instead of the end, two more years of the trip remained. Their friends and relatives would have been put though a lot of concern. Seems way to long to be exposed to any kind a minimalistic lifestyle. "Low in conscientiousnes" would that be the right application?
I don't understand how this is immoral or flaunting of privilege. They were doing things they enjoyed. Also I'm pretty sure many people who aren't extremely wealthy can do what they did. Yes plane ticket was expensive, but they traveled on a bike, not a private jet. And it sounded like they were pretty limited on what they could spend. But more, who cares if someone uses money they make to enjoy life? Just because someone takes a different path that is not expected, doesn't mean they're harming someone else. I'm happy for them, ( except for the murder part. ). And I hope more people in the world can escape their desk jobs if they desire to. I also hope more people can become wealthy. I don't care if someone has more than me, I'm still happy for them. And if I'm not happy with my life, I'm going to work on improving my own situation, and find a way to surpass my own personal limitations. I don't care that I was dealt a worse hand. It's simply a reality I have to be crafty enough to overcome. Envy helps noone, and especially harms the person feeling it. No matter how poorly you're doing, there's always someone who has it worse. So while you shame someone else for having what you perceive as a better life, there's always someone else who could shame you for the exact same reason. So essentially you're always being a hypocrite by being like this. There are people who live in terrible situations where they don't have the luxury of even being able to have a job at all. Forget access to the internet. And where every day they fight to just survive. They would give anything just to have the chances that many of us likely have if we live in western society. And they would laugh at us complaining. Does that mean we shouldn't complain? No. We all have a right to complain. But it does mean we're being sorry hypocrites when we blame someone else for being luckier in life.
I agree with your perspective of this situation. It’s truly sad that these two adventurous people were so violently taken from the world. I pray God be with their families. 🙏🏻
So sad. There are no words for those who hate. We must be adventurous but cautious and informed. Do not travel to known hot spots in our World in such a vulnerable situation.
@@JennyofOldStones713 yes but life gives no guarantees..when it’s your time to go , death finds his way ..all those freak accidents that happen prove that..
@@JennyofOldStones713 True but also each new day is not guaranteed. I had a young “healthy” friend drop dead a few months ago. No warning, no signs. His heart just gave out. If they had survived this trip or not gone, doesn’t mean they would have lived to a ripe old age anyway.
It would be interesting to ask the dead couple which they would rather have-their lives back or their experiences (including being brutally hacked to pieces)?
I’ve always hated victim blaming. To blame the victim for what they wear or what they say or do when an evil person assaults or murders them is beyond ridiculous. Sure we could all cower inside our homes and never leave the house, but then the evil breaks into the house and assaults or murders you there, too. Blame the murderer, someone was going to be their victim one way or another.
Good analysis. I still think that most people are "good" in the sense that they tend most often to mean well in their actions. But yes, there are those who dedicate themselves to evil. To me, risk-taking of the kind Jay and Lauren took is at best ill-advised. Far too much was left to chance. They seemed to invite catastrophe (though perhaps not create it). It's the kind of thing a much younger person might do on a smaller scale. Jay's view of evil is distressingly naive, to say the least. And I agree that biking in a dangerous area leaves you too vulnerable.
Oh, how sad that two sweet, young people had to find out the hard way that evil is very real. At least they had an amazing adventure-but I wonder if they would have traded that adventure for a longer life. I've known many reckless people who have, at times, regretted those choices.
Exactly. If you could bring them back to life it’d be interesting to ask them which they’d prefer-their lives back and a sort hum drum existence or living all their experiences including being hacked to pieces? We’ll never know.
Wonderfully said at the end, I really enjoyed your perspective on how we shouldn’t act as if evil doesn’t exist but not to let it guide us from experiencing new adventures.
"They were living their adventure, and ran into some bad luck." Yes. But it's worth noting that during a sufficiently long adventure through many different countries and circumstances, encountering bad luck becomes a near certainty.
Interesting coincidence, i am also on a world trip lasting two years so far, and i do have a bicycle but i only use it for urban areas with better traffic safety, not moving from one country to another. I do believe theres some risk in traveling because we arent familiar with the area, roads, people, culture, language etc. ive factored this into my planning and tend to keep the risks a bit lower, for example i wear a helment and cycle at 6 too 8 mph near the sidewalk. crime is also a factor i assess.
As careful as someone maybe in planning the myriad of details of a bicycle tour (or a hiking trip?) there are bound to be variables you can not control..the weather, mechanical problems and other peoples behavior. While not the 1st to seek adventure by travel it is not as common to hear of the adventurers that don't believe there aren't any evil people. Yet let's look at where they chose to tour. Not in the scary neighborhoods of Chicago or NYC. Sadly violence can occur anywhere.
RIP to them. What a horrible way to go. They sounded like compassionate thoughtful people. The world needs more people like these. I'm sure their loss is deeply felt by their family and friends.
@$$ Wagy $$ Saying all of over 300 MILLION people think exactly the same as saying all muslims are bad AND is the anti thesis to common sense and decency.
I am of the opinion that if you go on such an adventure, you have to expect the unexpected. For some reason I constantly think of my safety, I think women do more often then men. I would deliberately avoid dangerous scenarios, like walking around alone at night. Probably, just like the couple at first, I guess nothing at all would happen to me. Yet we know that doing this action brings up the odds much higher than just staying at home for example. Riding alone as Westeners in an area that is 97% muslim whilst they knew isis is a thing, is akin of me walking around at night near a hostel containing sex offenders. Actually the chance of the couple being attacked is slightly higher than as if I were to walk home. Yes I think they were naive. At the time they were doing their trip I would have avoided quite a few countries for various reasons just to be on the safe side and common sense. It was incredibly naive to think that no bad person would ever come to hurt them, let alone not being prepared for such an event.
They would have been better off staying in Europe. I have travelled through quite a few countries in Europe on my own. Just was careful. What a sad story
I agree. Women have their antennae up for danger far more than males do, because it's the danger some males pose to us that make it necessary. Women's intuition is there for a reason.
When a person takes life threatening risks the law of averages is stacked up against them. This couple had a lot of close calls which for most people would have been enough to end the trip. But these were an eccentric couple and the law of averages finally caught up with them if not in an unexpected way.
First I wanted to mention that your most recent video on Patreon was excellent!👌🏼It kept me reflecting about it for the whole day. Regarding this video- it seems exciting to visit different places and learn about different cultures and people, but the reality of it can be very different from the fantasy. While there are many good people in the world, the opposite is also true, imo. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us Dr. Grande.❤️
Not slim at all. I live in a "good" area in WNY near Niagara Falls and I run into nutters all the time who seem normal at first, dressed nice, have a job and a car, and when I start to get to know them, they start to creep me the fuck out! Not kidding! There is something wrong with people. I strictly keep to myself now.
Man... I grew up in a rough(ish) country and knew multiple people who were kidnapped. Some were released, some weren't and lost their lives violently. Living in a safe place can give you a distorted feeling about the world. Sometimes there is no 911, nobody to help you.
Thank you for sharing that perspective. There are a lot jaded, spoiled and entitled people in the US.
Yes it’s horrifying some are unaware of the privileges they have… some all too aware
@@TheTrevelyansway Some may be spoiled and entitled, but many people who grew up in the US, Canada, Western Europe, Australia, NZ, and maybe Japan, are just nieave and unaware that there are dangerous people, and think they can wander around the streets of a distant city as if they were walking around the neighborhood where they live, or hike into the wilderness or jungle as if they were in a city park near their home.
@@TheTrevelyansway I am jaded but i don't feel entitled..just fortunate
Well, he lived in the country with most serial killers per Capita, so... No,no way near pacific country
The problem with "living on the edge" is that it's on the edge". Magical thinking ( bad things happen to other people) can't save one from disasters.Thank you as always Dr Grande 🌷
They were thrill seekers and lived their passion, naively perhaps. OTOH they did not live long enough to lead long boring half lives as corporate drones only to retire, get old, infirm and end up painfully pushing walkers. Is it better to live passionately and die young doing what you love or to live a long boring life devoid of any meaning because all risk was avoided.
I like the best of both worlds! Do adventure carefully and responsibly and grow old with great memories!
Too many unwatched thunderstorms ⛈
But worse than that and glowing rectangles
Too Many held in Farts 💨
Just like the song
from Disney’s Frozen movie
Some times you have to “Let it go” 🎶
Not hold it in
That goes for Life not just farts 💨
@@3dguy839 Life ain't all sunshine, rainbows and candy cane-scented unicorn farts.
Four of the five men who murdered this couple were killed by Tajik security forces. The 5th, Hussein Abdusamadov, believed to be the ringleader, was sentenced to life imprisonment and died in in prison shortly afterwards.
Thanks for the info! I wad wondering what happened with the murderers
The worst part of this is that those men THOUGHT they were doing good! The concept of retaliation is so ingrained in some cultures as to be more important than life! What can be done with that reality!?
Good
@@bthomson And that 'concept of retaliation' is _deeply_ embedded in the U.S., there's really no disputing that. To give just one example, when the Bush 43 regime was in charge, and launched its invasion of Afghanistan, the Taliban in Afghanistan were prepared to surrender pretty much immediately. Rumsfeld and his sinister cronies weren't interested in that. We were sent there to intimidate, brutalize and show off our tremendous military might. Anything less than that was unacceptable.
@@edgarcayce2.02 Both sides of the isle are good at this sort of thing, as it’s very profitable.
I understand their desire to break away from the drudge of the 9-5/staring at a screen all day, but I don't see how 'worldwide bike trip through dangerous territory' is the logical conclusion. Even so, they died in a terrible way that I would never wish on anyone, and I hope they may rest in peace.
We can all empathize with someone who didn't want to be stuck doing the 8 to 5 thing while they're going and vital. Wow, do I! But the majority of us make the responsible choice of doing it to support our lifestyles and families. Jay was so possessed of that that he headed off without adequate funds or supplies (or knowledge) on a worldwide trip and dragged along a person who was there only because she was in love with him. After hearing the full story, I almost have less sympathy for them even if no one ought to die like that.
It's like families who try to drive a compact car across the outback
Exactly the USA has such beautiful places for hiking visting. Plus more safety being in own country knowing how things work
One thing that Dr. Grande doesn't convey well is that Tajikistan wasn't actually considered dangerous territory then. At the time of their trip the US government listed it as Level 1 travel advisory, which is the lowest level (it's since been changed). The group was even interviewed on Tajik news because the government wanted to attract more tourism and Islamic extremists didn't have a huge presence there!
This really is kind of more equivalent to the San Bernardino shooting or Boston Marathon bombing that happened in the United States.
Jay and Lauren took risks and were not perfect people, but the particular attack that killed them really was just bad luck.
You can decide that this isn't a risk you want to take for yourself...that's perfectly fine.
Heck, it's a decision I'd make for myself! I wouldn't personally go on that trip because I don't like discomfort and traveler's diarrhea.
But have no sympathy for the mean commenters. On Jay's blog or on this video.
As far as I'm concerned all the people writing self-righteous comments about this couple's death are just miserable, nasty people trying to feel better about their sad, pathetic lives! Even if you're right that these people were the dumbest humans to ever live, how did they ever hurt you? They didn't.
How does their death make your life better? It doesn't in any material way, it just gives you the chance to self-congratulate over something that doesn't even involve you, because smug self-satisfaction is all you actually have!
I'd take being friends with Jay and Lauren over spending even 5 minutes with one of you!
Everybody by now should really know that when somebody asks you, “Where are you from?” it’s probably time to lie and/or run.
Exactly this! Especially if you are travelling through a known warzone where one side wants to kill westerners... If any random person there asks where you came from, that is already a severe red flag that you are in extreme danger from one side or the other.
I am from the US ...I wear a Canada t-shirt when I travel..
Canada is less inflammatory, I believe..
@@lmb4876 smart!
Ireland is always a safe answer no one has a beef with the Irish we mind our own business however the UK and USA are targets all over the bloody world they created with colonisation wars and invasions.
Canada!
Jay was like the grizzly man who misunderstood grizzly bears as teddie bears and wound up being eaten by one. The world IS treacherous.
Thought same thing. He's like grizzly man who drug his poor girlfriend into his dangerous nonsense with terrible results
Mark Twain once said, "I never let my schooling interfere with my education ". How two Georgetown alumni embarked on this disaster is beyond me. There are also many camping and hiking trips that start as dreams and end up as nightmares. Thanks Dr. G.
do not leave your house under any circumstances. you might have a traffic accident. being knifed by robbers. an earthquake, floods, ........ no matter what your education.
Mark Twain once set the forest on fire near Lake Tahoe. It was probably not his most dangerous adventure.
It just goes to show you that education doesn't equal smarts. IMHO, you'd have to be really "not smart" (The Tube doesn't let me use the other 'S' word) to be that naive.
Well put. Washington Phillips refers to the "educated fools" (NO disrespect intended.) Good people often struggle to understand and believe what uneducated Bible readers understand, which is that not everyone is to be trusted, and people can be extremely evil. Sad, such beautiful, people. . .. But it sounds like at least he was not grounded in Biblical teaching.
@Carol Reeves I am not sure what you are referring to, what is your point, Perhaps you misunderstood my comment, bc I am not relating to what you are saying ..
I have never understood how any adult can say evil isn't real. Rape, murder, and genocide are real. Ergo, evil is real. I guess I spent too much of my academic life studying history. However, I agree with the sentiment that people use the word too liberally, such as characterizing someone as evil because they have different opinions.
Jay Austin was a fool, he lived in Washington, D.C. where violent crime is a certainty. Yet he deliberately chose to ignore the existence of evil. He paid a fool's price, and sadly took his girlfriend with him.
Some idiotic sociology professor told him evil behavior was made up like gender and reality.
I’m too cynical to be an idealist. There’s too many idealists in this day and age.
@@flyoverkid55 play stoooopid games win the prize
Being wealthy and privileged gave the two the illusion that everyone in the world would always treat them like royalty
It's ironic that people who traveled the world would have such a sheltered view on it. Privilege can be a killer.
@Joey Joe racist??? Where
Not privilege, that's not the answer to everything. Unhealthy optimism about what pos some humans can be.
@Joey Joe found the triggered right-wing nutjob!
@Joey Joe The comment is referring to the naïveté of these people who believed the entire world is like Scandanavia. Their privilege of growing up in a wealthy, peaceful society where everyone is nice, kind, and caring like them. They didn’t believe there are people in the world who are absolute savages, they thought that was just a racist myth propagated by people who aren’t as enlightened as them.
@Joey Joe they're not talking about white privilege; there are other types of privilege (such as 1st world socio-economic) you absolute mouth-breather
I travelled often by hitch hiking mostly in my homecountry the Netherlands but also to Spain and back. It is true that i encountered the nicest people and was 99% of the time really surprised by the generocity of strangers. I also encountered the remaining 1% .
Do not be naive and protect yourself. Don't gamble with your life by thinking that you would'nt come across the psycho's outthere.
The difference is the locations in which you traveled. Those are generally safe countries. I lived in Europe and traveled most of it and never felt unsafe. There are certain countries that I avoided (outside of Europe) intentionally because of several stories like this one. This kind of thing happens in many middle eastern countries, but only a handful make the news in the US.
well, you gamble your life every day. and eventually you will lose it.
@@ursodermatt8809 Don't gamble your life everyday, and eventually you will lose it.
True!💀
@@ursodermatt8809 let's say not all gambles are the same, not all gambles have the same odds
When I heard his naïveté philosophy of the human condition, and how he assumed people are naturally good (which is not true ), I knew it wouldn’t end well for him and his girlfriend. Tragic.
We need to be realistic about the prevalence of evil in this world.
The vast majority of people are good , unfortunately there are a small percentage are bad
Yes! This! And unfortunately that small percentage does a LOT of damage! But we must not let it ruin our lives!
you knew nothing. everybody knows after the fact.
Maybe a slight translation. Hindsight is 20/20.
Tragikstan.
Bicycle from South America all the way back to the United States 👁👄👁…. Meanwhile I literally convince myself that grocery shopping is too much physical effort
SO TRUE! (and sad!😓)
Lol truth
Jay’s adventurous and positive outlook and perspectives toward humanity were commendable. How terrible they faced such an awful outcome. May they and their families be in peace.
I traveled the world alone in my 30’s, and people used to ask me if I weren’t afraid of possible dangers. Looking back, I wasn’t even concerned about my safety. I guess I was naive and somewhat foolish, but no matter where I would travel to, I always felt right at home. I remember one of my friends telling me, “it’s okay. No one will bother you when they see your US passport.” But time has changed. Just like in Jay and Lauren’s situation, now people in some countries actually are looking to harm the westerners.
Thanks for the video, Dr. Grande!
Some of the US policies have not been the greatest(to put it mildly!)
@@bthomson And some areas cultivate many savages
Not sure I agree with the word "cultivate?". Maybe not even " savages?". Seems to me that bad feelings (again to put it mildly!) can be generated by many factors. Inequality and our good 'ole military industrial complex do not endear us to much of the world!
Nothing has changed, never in the history american passport would save anybody, maybe just for some time to demand ransom, but that's it.
@SurplusQuintet very similar to the guy that brought his gal to Alaska to get killed by bears
Traveling the world in that fashion is fine, but not having any street smarts about it, and assuming the best in strangers in strange places is just plain stupid. Going to rural Tajikistan, where elements of ISIS/Taliban hid as it borders Afghanistan (this is before Afghanistan fell), kind of baffles me. Why would you choose places like that? This couple screams of 'naive Western tourists travel around expecting special treatment and protection because of who they are' type. I'm sure if there was a map of where they travelled, there'd several dangerous places that they unnecessarily went through.
Very good point about the expectation to be treated differently.
Well stated. Reminds me of the romantic naivety of Christopher McCandless; I get it, but at some point your luck will run out. Maybe there's a subconscious death drive at play here too with these types of misadventures.
It's not just "special treatment", it's a failure to recognize that there are people in a number of areas of the world who don't distinguish between the actions of the US government, especially acting through their armed forces, and the responsibility of individual US citizens. In other words, as happened in this case, some people are happy to take revenge on US citizens for things that the US government has done.
When it comes to the risk of an individual being attacked because of hatred for the government of the country they come from, I suspect that British citizens are second in line, right behind Americans.
@@pulaski1 they blame the USA when we intervene. And they blame us when we don’t
So true! Damed if you do, damned if you don't!
When you said "They started their trip in... South Africa" my heart immediately sank. Thank goodness the only problems they had here were flat tires. It could have been much worse. You can't go for a walk alone here. The fact that they survived SA the way they were approaching this is rare in itself... the fact that they made it as far as they did, shows how much luck they must have had.
Watching this for the second time, this guy reminds me of the bear guy, Treadwell.
i watched District 9 not too long ago and was surprised that the living quarters of the aliens were real houses in SA 😳
I am a South African. As long as you are sensible and take appropriate precautions, you should be able to travel around without incident. I have walked hundreds of km on mountain and scenic trails in SA and I am still alive. Whereas is London, Uk as opposed to London USA I have had at least 2 dangerous encounters!
They could have filmed District 9 in any ghetto in the USA
Treadwell, John Allen Chau, Sebastian Woodroffe (I am sure there are more) ..... it's quite a list with the same thread running through it : "magical thinking"
Sometimes it's good to be skepitcal and weary of people, especially in areas close to literal warzones. Believing people are inherently good will lead to some kind of misfortune or worse.
“It’s a dangerous business Frodo, walking out your door”
Good quote!
No one is immune from harm just because they are nice. Did they recognize the risks involved?! This seems quite naive to me. Really sad. I agree with your analysis; however, I think it is important to consider the political upheaval and desperation that influences the destructive behaviors of the inhabitants of a certain territory. This is so tragic. Thank you for this thought-provoking case.
Agreed.
And the very thought -provoking comment!
I think he was selfish too, he risked his partner's life for his enjoyment and probably never asked her if she really wanted to complete the "adventure" or do it in the first place... That's what I call reckless.
Regardless, she made the decision to go along, letting her fear of losing him guide her. Then ignored her feelings of doubt about going home and rejoining him later on.
Horribly risky. Get a job working at Yellowstone if you want to see beauty. Don't bicycle through Tajikistan.
But the caldera!
And the bison... enormous!!!
Wasnt a woman murdered there also?
@@mortishanocturnal71 millions of people visit the park, and so when you apply statistical expectations, you would expect that some of the people will go missing, there will be violence at normal rates, theft, and all kinds of things. Going on to a national park does not remove you from the dangers of being human. However, there are no organized groups of terrorists driving around and murdering people on the park, at least so far.
As Dr Grande said this was an expectional crime. Maybe she was right and statistically it's way more likely to get killed in New York than in Tajikistan.
While I do love the idea of travelling the world and connecting with different cultures, as a Filipino I personally find it tasteless when backpackers visit third world countries and rely on the kindness of locals. Like, why would you travel the world if you have no money. Why not just take out a loan or even max out your credit card.
I love how you describe all the kindness of people too.
He is always fair and positive!
The world isn't inhabited by sitcom side characters, as they tragically learned.
Life ain't all sunshine, rainbows and candy cane-scented unicorn farts.
I meant, exciting in seeing the world together. They sound like Lovely People. RIP to All Four.💐💐💐💐
Stupidly Naive
@@svenhoek Well, no. One was stupidly naïve. The other three were in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Omg, so sad. Not everyone is good. Traveling near Afghanistan after 9/11 was a mistake, to say the least. Her anxiety and instincts were right, but she let her fear of loss over-ride them, which is ironic.
Right?
Not ironic.
It was like she didn’t want to disappoint him, so she pretended she was ok. SMDH!
yes her anxiety and fear was warning her but she override it with justifying and it ended badly.
You have been there
Toxic romanticism. They rejected material "excess" but the irony is that they're choice to quit their jobs and travel anywhere in the world they pleased is privilege and a luxury. Their ignorance is offensive
I hear you. I often notice that it’s often people of means and privilege that do this sort of thing and want to tell the world about it online.
I knew a woman like this. I believe in her case it was hippie religious beliefs that made her believe stuff like this even though bad things had happened to her. She believed if bad things happened it was because you manifested them with negative thoughts.
Key word: jobs. That means they worked hard and saved money so they could do this.
There is a difference between ignorance and naïveté. I think they were simply naive and believed the best about people. Unfortunately, they found out the hard way that this is dangerous.
@@Catlily5 OMG. Yes those LOA nuts. Manifesting is bs. Tell the starving kids in Africa they need to think more positive, all their fault. So callous & victum shaming😑😣😓😡
My wife and I used to travel to many countries and remote areas where risks were medium to high, but mostly before 2012. Right now, in 2021, we barely go out at all unless we absolutely have to. I reached a point where I don't trust anybody that I don't know any more. The world has gotten infinitely more dangerous since the turn of the millennium.
Social medias, news did that to you.
@@stephanea5364 "Media" is already plural.
eb - Your world is nicely precise (and correct!)🌎
Same
This isn't true; you're romanticizing the past, the vast majority of which you were never there for. The world has always been full of evil. We just didn't have the hyper-focus of the media we have now. Shitty things have been happening since the beginning of time. Look at the holocaust. The crusades. Slavery. And those are just things we know about. Think about all the things that just weren't documented.
By far out of all of your videos I can agree with your analysis 100%. Only those that have survived evil know that it exists.
Currently 6 months/6,000 miles into a similar trip on bicycle. Of course I'm worried something might happen, but I'd still rather take the risk than sit at home in comfort. Hopefully I have better luck. Thousands of people have cycled a similar route to this couple and been fine. Meanwhile, my local grocery store in Boulder, CO was shot up by a maniac, killing 10 people. I definitely believe there is evil in the world though, I just hope I'm lucky enough to not encounter it.
Lucky you! Living life on your own terms!
Avoid ISIS, the Taliban and Chicago and you'll be fine.
Some people stay close to home and never get a passport (I'm thinking Grande is in this closed minded category).
Some folks get a passport & fly to Cancun.
Some choose to take the path less travelled (as tens of thousands have done over the years). Sure you take a chance but you also live life while exploring the world. I'd rather die doing what I love than wither away in an old folks home connected to tubes and wires!
Have fun on your travells. I leave next fall on a round the world overland trip beginning with North & South America.
@@TerryManitoba Have a wonderful trip and stay safe.
Terry B - Closed minded might be the LAST terms I would use for Dr. Grande!
I’m in the first category: They were too naïve for their own good. To deny that some people are evil is almost insulting to all those who’ve perished due to the actions of cruel and murderous people. I’m sorry, of course, that these four people were killed.
And, as a lifelong Brooklynite, I’m sick of people using NYC as a measurement of where people are endangered by crime. I’ll take my city over most any day! 🤠
True. I’m Canadian and even I know that NYC is nowhere NEAR as dangerous as some other cities in the US.
Or the world!🌎
Indeed!!!❤❤
It'd be worse if they had been professional historians. I'm gonna give them the benefit of a doubt and assume they just weren't that in to history.
I'd think that Chicago would take the top spot there are four murders committed there every day
I'm pretty sure it's estimated and there could be more or less on a given day
so true..."there are definitely people in the world that choose evil" - "one should not underestimate evil in the world" - Grande
Younger people are usually bigger risk takers. I felt like I was semi invincible in my teens and early 20’s. I used to hitchhike everywhere, go to parties and leave for other parties with complete strangers. Stupid, I know. Once I became a parent my mindset shifted - I had to be there for my family. Maybe I would have matured anyway, but for me, the catalyst was having people need me.
To believe evil is a made up concept..... must have had a pretty easy life up until then if that's the case. I remember when I was a kid I was trick or treating and this old man tried to invite me into his house for the candy. My mom was luckily watching and intervened. She has always made me aware that there are evil people out there. She wouldn't even honk at people because she lived in San Diego and knew it could cost your life
Smart mom!
@@usernameisusername maybe it's because I'm on the spectrum but I just don't get your joke if that's what that is
3:50 The narrator says "a man stopped by with his truck…. and took their clothes and put them into the dryer… " I thought that was going to be the beginning of the bad part of the saga. You know, those backpacking Danish gals who were killed in Morocco in 2019 or so, Alexander Supertramp and his Alaskan trip in the early 1990s, The 2 gals who went missing in Panama, Lisanne and Kris, all hark back to this current story. The Idealization of their own abilities, and the perceived abundance of good in the world, can lead to those ppl finding themselves in unrecoverable situations.
Yes if people are sheltered sometimes they haven't encountered evil in their daily life....
Well, evil IS a made up concept, there is no such thing. There are, however, many people who, for different reasons, have severe issues, are dangerous and harm others. It's not evil, it's worse, because it's real. The world is full of abuse of all kinds and to pretend that nothing bad can happen to you when you are in an objectively dangerous territory is naive and also irresponsible. They of course didn't deserve any of this and in the grand scheme of things it was a freak attack but that blog post from Jay was still detached from reality. (I know I it seems like it's just semantics, but it's equally as naive to think it's just some random "evil" that makes people do bad things. It isn't.)
I love traveling. I hope to visit my sister in Kenya in February. I realize they were trying to have a life fulfilling trip, but the way they went through this was so irresponsible and selfish. They didn't deserve what happened to them. Yet... They had to constantly burden other people for their trip. I could understand something bad happening and needing help. But, this isn't that.
Brian - Getting the same vibe from the hermit video! Not really fair to depend on others instead of being self-sufficient. Puts to much pressure on whatever balances the responsibility scales!
@@bthomson Yes and they could have done the same thing with just better preparation and planning. And taking into consideration various dangers.
Agreed!
This, this right here. Well said. Jay was so selfish as to quit his job and head off without adequate funding or supplies. "I just want do this, so I'm doing it" when you don't have the cash or supplies is something a child would do. And he dragged along a lover, taking advantage of her too, refusing to consider her physical condition and the danger he was putting her in. Knowing the entire context of the story makes me go from pitying Jay for being foolish to despising him.
Yeah this I agree with.
Honestly, I'm disgusted by how people are almost revealing their deaths but I recognize that Jay and Lauren were flawed individuals who made some pretty bad decisions at times, and over-relied on others.
I just don't think their actions deserved a death sentence, nor deserved for their deaths to be smugly celebrated.
They didn't deserve to be killed for it. However, they should have done better in their travels.
I refuse to travel to countries or regions of countries that have significant crime or civil unrest or antiAmerican sentiments. My daughter also has traveled even more than I, and I have convinced her to listen to American State Department warnings before going to anywhere. Research where you are headed- that advice goes for your next adventure in a large city or foreign country.
Based on those criteria you must avoid travel to the US at all costs.
@@TDubya811 According to Fauxnews, I am not safe in any city controlled by a Democratic mayor or any state with a democratic governor. According to CNN I am not safe in any city or state controlled by a Republican. According to OANN I am not safe in any area with a minority population higher than 1%. According to MSNBC I am not safe in any area not controlled by LBGT politicians. And according to PETA I am not safe traveling in any area not controlled by dogs or cats.
Additionally, some countries have almost medieval cultures. I was married to a Middle Eastern man and I was always surprised how different his culture was from modern America. I said in my own comment here that I, as a female, would not want to traverse a strictly Muslim country wearing the tight, skimpy clothing worn by bikers. Especially not any of the countries with a high level of ISIS or other fundamentalists.
@@TDubya811
even during the troubles in northern ireland there was much less homicide there than in america.
@@briangarrow448 Good points and well stated👍🏽
I live in Cape Town and I can tell you that they were lucky not to be killed on day 1!! I don't think anybody who lives here would willingly sleep on the side of a highway and feel safe...
Never tell anyone your American while abroad. I always say I’m from Canada. Although in this case it probably wouldn’t have made a difference.
yeah they were just looking for westerners periodt
It depends on the country. I visited a country several years ago where I was told you don't want the people to think you are a Russian; tell them you're an American! I don't know if that is still the situation there; they may have realized that most Americans don't give a damn about them.
Go one better, learn Spanish and say you are from Mexico.
Scroo you. I tell them I'm an American. And don't give a fukk what they think about it. And I don't go to places like these people did.
@@kevinh5349 wow how very 'merican of you. everyone's really impressed. so patriotic and tough and ballsy. very cool!
Always listen to your gut feeling, it's there to protect you. Ignoring it can be hazardous.
Recognizing the risk should mean avoiding likely or unlikely risk. Ur analysis is so spot on.
Just so there is no confusion, Dr. Grande is not diagnosing anyone in this video, he is only speculating what could be happening in a situation similar to this.
Great analysis Dr Grande. I found Jay story sad and inspiring . He got the lifestyle he wanted . He and his girlfriend, shares so many adventures, they found the kindness of strangers .The sad part was their fatal outcome . Thank you Dr Grande. Great topic.
Thank you for your kind words Lauren was my cousin and a wonderful human being. It's different when the story is about your family and so many of these comments hurt my heart. We are still grieving.
Seems like evil is constantly stronger than good...Sad case... Your analysis is great Dr. Grande, thank you very much 🚲
So much do not agree! I think good is always stronger because bad acts do not engender any good outcomes.
@@bthomson That's exactly what happened in this case, a bad outcome
@@user-cs1un6sp1wRennata That's the thing, though, you don't hear about all the times when nothing bad happens.
If you successfully complete an adventurous trip, then, yeah, maybe you're lucky enough to be Cheryl Strayed and have the talent and connections to get interest in your story and a movie deal. But it's far more likely you'll be any of the thousands of hikers who complete the PCT without any major misfortune, and only ever get a dozen or so messages of congratulations from friends and family.
If you get murdered on a big adventurous trip, though...you have a much better chance of everyone hearing about it! National news, maybe international depending on where it happened, then for years after True Crime TV shows and podcasts doing episodes covering your life and, of far more interest to their audiences, your tragic end. Then spin-off analyses and discussion by people like Dr. Grande.
You see what I mean?
The fact that we only tend to hear about bad outcomes gives a skewed perception of bad always winning, and we forget that the very reason we're so interested when we hear about bad outcomes is because they're unusual!
There's nothing wrong promoting peace, cultural awareness and all that stuff but there are times that you need to use your head. Those terrorists can't be reasoned with or bargained, totally heartless people so to speak. Yes, there's such a thing as a bunch of evil people in this planet. When I heard the deaths of this couple, my feelings were a mix of a pinch of sympathy and more on "what did they expect from a group of heartless killers?"
Let this be a lesson to idealists living in their own reality. Actual reality is going to hit you hard like a moving train when sheet hits the fan.
It's usually the shit that hits the fan.
A sheet might actually bring down the fan. Lol
Sad story. Naive or not, nobody deserves that fate.
Listen, and understand. That Terrorist is out there, it can’t be bargained with, it can’t be reasoned with, it doesn’t feel pity or remorse or fear, and it absolutely will not stop…EVER, until you are dead!
Dr. Grande, the way you broke this down for us was splendid. I remember this case vividly and I feel you did the victims justice.
Great analysis as always. Epicurus and John Dewey, two philosophers with a gulf of thousands of years between them, both say that thrill-seeking is abnormal behavior, probably a symptom of an individual not feeling like a meaningful part one's own society.
Edit: I agree with Dr. Grande's assessment that Jay and Lauren are not responsible for what happened to them. I'm not blaming the victims. The sick individuals who slaughtered them and 2 others are wholly to blame. My comment was more a criticism about seeking fulfilment outside of one's self and doesn't really have anything to do with the crime committed.
The "dare devil" gene!
Thrill-seeking may be a form of adrenaline addiction.
Humans (mostly men, as you can see in this story) are natural explorers/discoverers. It's why we have developed so many new technologies, settled the entire Earth and are wanting to travel through space. You wouldn't want to live without the "daredevil gene."
Dr. Grande, Your analysis and presentation is fascinating. I appreciate your ability to pare down the complexities of a situation into readily digestible components. I haven’t donated to your patreon yet, but I will, I promise.!!!!! Thank you! ❤️
If only he had listened to his gut feeling of impending doom he wrote about in his diary.
He was likely compelled to ignore his fear by his powerful ambition.
@@bellyfulochelly4222 You mean his incredible sense of entitlement.
@@mac_and_cheeze_pleeze6472 Yes, that, too.
He felt it, he feared it, but he pushed on. That is the definition of idiot.
@@rebeccagarrett1514 Allowing intellect, theories, words and ideas to override intuition. Mistake.
Loved your narration in this. Of all the ways the couple could’ve met their downfall, I was not expecting death by terrorists. They seemed like a nice couple.
One time, I rode 35 mph away from a hungry German Sheppard and finally outran him. After that, I attached a quick draw canister of mace to my handlebars. After being sprayed, no dog bothered me again.
I was a Pollyanna until my mid-thirties.
Ignorance is bliss until something bad happens.
If people plan to travel into areas unknown to them, they should learn the best ways to stay safe in that culture. The childhood adage “don’t talk to strangers” might have saved their life.
i suggest, you are not talking to anybody. most killings are done by people you know. and most importantly don't talk to your partner.
Is this in jest? We can not escape all danger but we must trust in order to live! Take care but don't live in fear.
Cute part of the movie "Get Shorty" is the conversation in the barber chairs when the sidekick says he will sleep in a chair because most people die in bed!
@@ursodermatt8809 yes, I agree with you. Of course I talk to strangers. I was just musing on possibilities of strangers in a place that might not like Americans.
When I first realized there was true evil in the world, it was at the hands of the man I loved for most.
@@bthomson yes, I said to another comment, it was only musings. I talk to strangers all the time.
If only we were all so lucky to pass in our sleep 😊
I got to hand it to them though just head out on an adventure like that. I dont have that in me sure i may have had some dreams earlier to travel more but it has not come to pass. Its just the way it is you meet nice people but there will always be bad apples in any part of the world.
We shouldn't let them ruin things though!🌎😇>👹
I’m a bit of a homebody too. I got older and more risk averse..
Thank you Dr. Grande for placing the blame directly where it should be - on the shoulders of the sick men who killed these people. Jay was naive and impulsive, but, as you said, this act of violence was out of place even in that country, dangerous as it is. He and the others did nothing to bring their deaths oupon themselves then to cross paths with a group of murderers.
My heck Doc, you're a busy man. Thanks for your great work.
Tajikistan is one of the most corrupt nations out there. Their record for human rights violation is disgusting. Did Jay and Lauren check with the State Department about which countries to avoid? This info is readily available. Even reading the first few paragraphs on Wikipedia would turn most people off from going there. These were sad but avoidable deaths. Instead of weighing their toothbrushes in preparation, maybe they should have spent more time laying out the safest route. RIP Jay and Lauren, RIP.
I suspect they went because of such things, rather than despite them. What better way to prove the warnings wrong?
What a terrible, terrible tragedy. 😞
Bitter irony that this case proves evil does exist.
Not to my mind. It does, however, seem to prove that there are differences in people's motivations that have to be taken into account to stay safe!
I’ve never heard of this case. It’s so tragic. We helped some “kindness of strangers travelers” one night in Washington DC giving them a place to stay and some food and supplies for their journey. They where such nice people and we really like following their journey online afterward. They were traveling musicians and they called themselves “the love sprockets”.
I can't help but be reminded of the two young European girls who were murdered in Morocco. Reading the story felt like a punch in the gut.
Having returned from Morocco shortly before the girls had arrived, and having explored some of the more "rural" areas with a Moroccan by birth female companion who lived in Amsterdam since childhood, I appreciated how pieced together the country was and how that could be easily misunderstood by a young Westerner thinking it's "safe" because kids post videos shopping in Marrakesh, the Disney world of Morocco. Simply put, It's not like a "country" the way we think of it, and that applies to many countries.
Some regions are isolated enclaves of "traditions" that are barbaric to Western sensibilities. For example, I had to make my Moroccan friends stay in the car in a village to go shopping because there were no women around amongst the men. Similarly, she accompanied me to a coffee shop and all eyes were on us. Same thing happened because she had worn shorts when we went for an outing. The reaction from people compelled me to have her change clothes.
When you travel you learn to spot things and not rock the boat. Chuck Norris only exist in the movies, and you don't want to find yourself in the "justice system" of some of these places or worse some informal mob or jungle justice.
Yeah, these two took risk. Yeah, the guy was a thrill seeker. Ultimately, though, every individual must decide if they believe they are entitled as a human to enjoy this planet. My answer is yes. I'm worthy.
That does not mean ignoring precautions or walking around trying to impose my world view on others. It means understanding the systems in place in the world during our time on the planet and navigating it the best we can to live a full life. Cowering in your living room, fearful of every sound, watching every on the news doesn't guarantee a happy long life either.
This is an important comment! So many illuminating instances! Agree 💯
Very interesting- thanks for sharing!
Very sensible remarks
Thank you for a great video Dr Grande.
If you ever get the chance to analyze the case of Lorne Armstrong, that would be super interesting to see.
I always assume people are out to get me, not help me. I’m weary and suspicious of people; the fact they were so naive and trusting is baffling 🤷🏻♀️
Same I go ever further and assume the worst outcomes for most people, situations, events, activities etc, this way anything else is a bonus. My life is filled with infinite little moments of gratitude surprise and elation because 99.99% of the time nothing bad ever happens.
It's an odd concept/lifestyle choice but its really fascinating. I wonder if there's a word for this?
@@graytoby1 Yes. The word you're looking for is "intelligence".
Good. We are.
@@listenanonymous 😂😂 I dunno maybe maybe. I think cynical but I'd rather be a cynic than chopped up with meat cleavers or raped in the back of van or whatevers popular these days
So if almost no percentage of the time bad things happen, then you are living your life in a guarded way for that 1%! Not sure that is reasonable? Glad that mom intervened though!
This couple went travelling the world, they didn’t count on the element of danger that is implied in the word adventure. You set foot outside your home, you might make it back or you might not. At least they tried to live the best lives they could.
I think they were right in that most people try to be good. Most is not all, leaving plenty to do the bad stuff. The more you're out there, the more you will see of everything the world has to offer. They seemed naive about this. Taking precautions is not evil or imperious IMO. It's just smart.
It’s 80s horror movie stuff, baby
You don’t have to travel to be in danger, plenty of people have had fatal accidents in their own home. You don’t have to go on an adventure to accidentally overdose on drugs or be killed by carbon monoxide poisoning, a fall, choking, drowning, electrical shock, burns or smoke inhalation. You can even be killed in a traffic accident on the way to work.
@@angelatheriault8855 True but when going about my daily life I dont take for granted that I'm safe. I take precautions. I personally admire them for going off on their adventure. While I agree with Dr Grande that the blame is on the killers, there are places in the world we are more likely to find them. I only wish theyd been a bit more careful. More so, I wish Austin had been right and that the idea of bad people was only a myth.
It is statistically more dangerous to commute to work and die in a car crash than dying from a terrorist attack, but it’s a fact that not pondering the dangers of traveling the parts of the world that see more extremists roaming their country looking for innocent/naive westerners to kill is in the realm of being extremely stupid.
I'm from Yemen, but now live in Canada. I will never take this sort of risk in my own country.
The first thing western young and old people with this risky plan should know is, the whole world isn't bad, the whole world isn't good either.
You have to take extreme safety measures if you are planning to travel anywhere outside your comfort zone.
For example in Yemen, when I was little I remember small town leaders and their soldiers kidnapping some oil company workers (mainly if you are a whiteMan or woman of any country, you are a target) to get the government's attention.
Some times they kidnapped tourists, but it's rare, because they know tourists come see the city and go home. But the oil workers, they are seen because they were stealing the oil from locals , some locals unlike America own oil rigs and the Americans, and Shell/Europeans have massive plant that they were stealing everything leaving them dry without a single pay to locals. These people are fighting for self preservation. And the western world (mass public) doesn't know anything about this fact because we live in a controlled media society.
The middle East self preservation tactics are not court rooms and lawyers... it's their guns and if they see you a threat to their community, they will end you.
Unfortunately, the American governance system corrupted the morality of third world nation's leaders by offering money to steal trillion dollars worth of natural resources. This is not spoken about in the media in western society (Biden is forcing OPEC to extract more oil, is one of the problem). It will create another war in the future.
USA Created hostility around the world and tensions had began right after WWII because of greed and hoarding for natural resources. That's why you see cheaper gas/food availability in US than anywhere else. As ridiculous as it sounds it's even cheaper than Canada even though Canada has a large oil extraction plant.
Another thing is, the Muslim culture is conservative, and if they see a woman traveling with a man, and not dressed as a woman should in their own countries, they immediately assume that these people are coming to change their culture, ruin their morals, or their women and children.
You see, you need to understand the culture, politics, and language also to be able to communicated with people. And when you travel in large group your threat will be higher, because they think you came to invade their country, so they take measures with their weapon.
Understand that America is the enemy of the world. Next time if you are asked just say Canadian or Germany. or someshit... If you get lucky you'll make it
Please be aware, inform yourself about the culture, and understand the language as well before you travel.
It's sad ending and senseless killing.
You sound just like my Egyptian friend..... don't say you're Canadian and ruin our good reputations!!
Those places were uncivilized long before USA and will remain so long after it.
Dr. Grande: Very interesting case! I absolutely agree with your analysis and thought process. This couple seemed naive, and put their faith and luck in the hands of others. They did not calculate the risk to benefit ratio precisely. Thank you again for covering interesting cases like this, where we all can learn from their experiences.
I think their deaths in that place were absolutely the epitome of being a result of their risk taking behaviours. They went to a country which is next door to one with which their own nation has been engaged in an invasive war for 20 years. There is no doubt that every nation bordering Afghanistan has had experience with bombs and drones falling on them and their people because that shit just happens in every single warzone ever since bombing has been a thing in warfare. Surprisingly enough, dropping big splodey objects from several thousand feet in the air isn't always as precise as it's made out to be in terms of who gets damaged.
Then they go and tell people they're from the very country with which these people's nearest neighbours are at war. As if the only reaction they expected was possible to that information would be "Oh wow I always wanted to meet some of you people and invite you back to mine for cous-cous and tea"
What these fools failed to understand is that people are not basically good or bad. People wherever you meet them re basically the same. Some are just lovely, some are utter b@stards and most of them believe that any war their nation is involved in has them fighting on the side of goodness and rightness and far too fucking often, of god. Everyone must be definition believe that their enemy is evil. Someone to be feared, attacked and vanquished for the purposes of self preservation. That belief is essential or no bugger would support the friggin' wars.
What reaction do you think that a couple of Afghanis in traditional dress, cycling through the backblocks of Cousenfucken Falls Kentucky might get then? Yeah not exactly a welcome wagon, right?
Well stated.
Agreed. Cousenfukenfalls Kentucky,lmao
very well said even dr grande fails to see this smh
Actually most people in Kentucky are very polite, and they wouldn’t do anything to a couple of Afghans on bicycles. Much more likely to get attacked and murdered in a big city with high crime.
Probably a good dose of calm Southern Hospitality actually, unlike what they would get in a NYC or DC ghetto.
With all his book smarts, he acually believed there was no evil in world?
I feel so terrible for how that all turned out for them, but planning and research is absolute key!
Such a great analysis and thought you put into this, Dr. Grande!! Dr. Grande
This video just popped up in my recommended section today and had me very surprised to see Jay's face. My wife worked with Jay in DC and I was the person that helped him design his tiny house. To add context to this discussion, Jay figured out that he would rather "retire a little each year" instead of wait until his late 60's to see the world. The smaller trips mentioned at the beginning we part of his efforts to see the world but also test his ability to rely on himself. Part of that testing included a one-day hike from DC to Harper's Ferry (roughly 65 miles) to test how long he could walk in a day without series issues or negative effects in the following days.
Jay was always willing to take help from strangers and to offer help in return, but most of his exploring and adventures were about pushing himself. The description of planning the trip as a way to "live on the edge" is only half true. Yes, Jay tried to push himself, but planning to make it so that he would rely on others for help or to "save him" is about as farm from the truth as I can imagine. I do appreciate you pointing out that so many people pointed to him and Lauren as being "dumb Americans" who knew nothing before deciding to bike through a "third-world country." The attack was the first ISIS attack in the entire country and resulted in the government erecting a memorial in honor of the four killed. Tajikistan was not even on the US radar as a travel advisory at the time and was seen as the harder bike route, but the safer path to bypass the exact safety issues most people on the internet accused them of seeking out or being blissfully unaware of.
For those wondering exactly where the attack took place, here is the Google Maps link to the location (the small memorial site can be seen as a bump out on the side of the road when viewing the satellite image) - maps.app.goo.gl/kudnuWkas8AV5oUm6. Just south of the site is the Kayonush Market where the cyclists were first spotted by the ISIS extremists and just a little south of that is the village where Jay and Lauren spent the night with a wonderful family on an olive farm just east of the small town of Sargazon.
The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.
It's so sad to hear about these trusting ppl. Who are intelligent as well, finding themselves in these positions 🤔 not the first couple won't be the last. But still very sad none the less. I get it, I love to travel.. but you do need to be very aware and careful. Great coverage 👏
Robert Baker : thank you for providing this valuable and informative follow-up information. As a regional and would-be world bicycle adventurer myself as well as a student of the history of bicycle travel I want to yell from the rooftops that travel by bicycle is one of the safest and most rewarding ways anyone can see the world and that the bicycle itself can act as a peace ambassador.
This couple may have had a safer, more comfortable trip, if they planned and prepared better for it. However, if they were intent on going to a country where Americans are hated, this would have happened, anyway. They should have stayed away from there. Thanks for this very interesting analysis, as always. Dr Grande, you've done it again! 🤗❤
Their death is still because of poor impulse control and judgement. They should not have been in that country in the first place
Sounds like an amazing adventure they were on, but sadly evil was on the lookout for victims.
Can't go with this idea! Bad luck yes! An evil with intent? NO!
@@bthomson when someone asks where you from to find out if he likes d country or not and then you it’s not intentionally looking to do evil?
These men felt that they had reason to exact retaliation on US citizens because of damage done by the US government. An eye for an eye may be their belief system? I absolutely do NOT agree with that but the cyclists were in their country.
@@bthomson it was supposed to be safer than New York,...so what they were in their country? not sure what you mean with that??
It's one thing to take a measured risk occasionally, but another to be constantly taking unknown risks. Their luck had to run out sooner or later. She knew this but decided to die with her love anyway.
Great analysis 💯. I am happy that number of Doctor Grande’s subscribers are growing so fast and hopefully more young people watch these videos to learn best of life lessons. Thank you so much doctor 🧡.
Wow, this was very interesting. I agree more with the second opinion from people. There is evil everywhere but we can’t let that stop us from actually living. Of course be as informed and prepared as possible but I also believe things do “happen”. Sending my condolences to all the families. Peace. 🙏🏻🙏🏻✌️✌️
Thank you, we are still grieving. It's been very hard for our family especially with the video of their deaths out there.
@@JulesBiscuits Oh, no! I'm sorry to hear about the video.
Please accept my sincerest condolences as well. 😔
Wow what a frightening case! I get wanting to experience nature- you do miss so much when you have to go to work. I myself would have stayed in the USA for the trip. There is plenty to see here. I’m not saying it’s not dangerous here- but maybe not as bad? Thanks for bringing to light another fascinating story I never knew about!🤠💕
As someone who has lived abroad, including the Middle East, I can relate hard to their philosophy. Most people around the world showed me amazing kindness. Unfortunately, there are still damaged and sadistic people everywhere too.
Many people of this kind are thinking that " unprovoked and assertive love" will go a long way to secure a better world when sometimes it irritates radicals who don't want to be manipulated into a loving kindness kind of lifestyle...
Yup
Ron - Very true! As middle class Americans ( which most of us are!) We sometimes (often!) believe the best and forget that much of the rest of the world is not rosy and well fed! There is obvious resentment of inequality!
People please remember our family is still grieving. Lauren is so loved and deeply missed. I know everyone likes to have a take but it's important to remember the people who died here died a public horrifying death. I remember my family asking if there was any way to get the news to stop playing the video of their death, it was awful.
sorry for your loss. The only thing I dont like about these videos is the jokes. its disrespectful in my eyes but the info conveyed is what keeps me coming back. again, so sorry for you loss. she seemed like a great person
Danger aside, this kind of traveling sometimes doesn't sit right with me morally. Quitting a job to go traveling for months, or years, is not something most people in the world have the luxury of doing. So to travel through regions like that, and on a budget that almost certainly requires reliance on the kindness of strangers for survival, that feels to me like flaunting of privilege.
exactly, and even if this had been a "close call" instead of the end, two more years of the trip remained. Their friends and relatives would have been put though a lot of concern. Seems way to long to be exposed to any kind a minimalistic lifestyle. "Low in conscientiousnes" would that be the right application?
I don't understand how this is immoral or flaunting of privilege. They were doing things they enjoyed. Also I'm pretty sure many people who aren't extremely wealthy can do what they did. Yes plane ticket was expensive, but they traveled on a bike, not a private jet. And it sounded like they were pretty limited on what they could spend.
But more, who cares if someone uses money they make to enjoy life? Just because someone takes a different path that is not expected, doesn't mean they're harming someone else. I'm happy for them, ( except for the murder part. ). And I hope more people in the world can escape their desk jobs if they desire to. I also hope more people can become wealthy. I don't care if someone has more than me, I'm still happy for them. And if I'm not happy with my life, I'm going to work on improving my own situation, and find a way to surpass my own personal limitations. I don't care that I was dealt a worse hand. It's simply a reality I have to be crafty enough to overcome. Envy helps noone, and especially harms the person feeling it.
No matter how poorly you're doing, there's always someone who has it worse. So while you shame someone else for having what you perceive as a better life, there's always someone else who could shame you for the exact same reason. So essentially you're always being a hypocrite by being like this.
There are people who live in terrible situations where they don't have the luxury of even being able to have a job at all. Forget access to the internet. And where every day they fight to just survive. They would give anything just to have the chances that many of us likely have if we live in western society. And they would laugh at us complaining. Does that mean we shouldn't complain? No. We all have a right to complain. But it does mean we're being sorry hypocrites when we blame someone else for being luckier in life.
I agree with your perspective of this situation. It’s truly sad that these two adventurous people were so violently taken from the world. I pray God be with their families. 🙏🏻
So sad. There are no words for those who hate. We must be adventurous but cautious and informed. Do not travel to known hot spots in our World in such a vulnerable situation.
Condolences and prayers for family and friends
At least they lived their lives and in a short time experienced more than most people ever will in a lifetime.
Wouldn’t it be nice if they could have grown old to reflect on the memories though?
Good point
@@JennyofOldStones713 yes but life gives no guarantees..when it’s your time to go , death finds his way ..all those freak accidents that happen prove that..
@@JennyofOldStones713 True but also each new day is not guaranteed. I had a young “healthy” friend drop dead a few months ago. No warning, no signs. His heart just gave out.
If they had survived this trip or not gone, doesn’t mean they would have lived to a ripe old age anyway.
It would be interesting to ask the dead couple which they would rather have-their lives back or their experiences (including being brutally hacked to pieces)?
I’ve always hated victim blaming. To blame the victim for what they wear or what they say or do when an evil person assaults or murders them is beyond ridiculous. Sure we could all cower inside our homes and never leave the house, but then the evil breaks into the house and assaults or murders you there, too.
Blame the murderer, someone was going to be their victim one way or another.
Wonder when that shift will finally come? When the perpetrator of rape will actually bear all the burden!
Thank you for covering this very interesting case 🧨
Good analysis. I still think that most people are "good" in the sense that they tend most often to mean well in their actions. But yes, there are those who dedicate themselves to evil. To me, risk-taking of the kind Jay and Lauren took is at best ill-advised. Far too much was left to chance. They seemed to invite catastrophe (though perhaps not create it). It's the kind of thing a much younger person might do on a smaller scale. Jay's view of evil is distressingly naive, to say the least. And I agree that biking in a dangerous area leaves you too vulnerable.
Evil is Real!! Thank You, Dr Grande. Perfect timing, again!
Oh, how sad that two sweet, young people had to find out the hard way that evil is very real. At least they had an amazing adventure-but I wonder if they would have traded that adventure for a longer life. I've known many reckless people who have, at times, regretted those choices.
Exactly. If you could bring them back to life it’d be interesting to ask them which they’d prefer-their lives back and a sort hum drum existence or living all their experiences including being hacked to pieces? We’ll never know.
Wonderfully said at the end, I really enjoyed your perspective on how we shouldn’t act as if evil doesn’t exist but not to let it guide us from experiencing new adventures.
"They were living their adventure, and ran into some bad luck."
Yes.
But it's worth noting that during a sufficiently long adventure through many different countries and circumstances, encountering bad luck becomes a near certainty.
Interesting coincidence, i am also on a world trip lasting two years so far, and i do have a bicycle but i only use it for urban areas with better traffic safety, not moving from one country to another. I do believe theres some risk in traveling because we arent familiar with the area, roads, people, culture, language etc. ive factored this into my planning and tend to keep the risks a bit lower, for example i wear a helment and cycle at 6 too 8 mph near the sidewalk. crime is also a factor i assess.
As careful as someone maybe in planning the myriad of details of a bicycle tour (or a hiking trip?) there are bound to be variables you can not control..the weather, mechanical problems and other peoples behavior. While not the 1st to seek adventure by travel it is not as common to hear of the adventurers that don't believe there aren't any evil people. Yet let's look at where they chose to tour. Not in the scary neighborhoods of Chicago or NYC.
Sadly violence can occur anywhere.
They chose a pretty dangerous spot
RIP to them. What a horrible way to go. They sounded like compassionate thoughtful people. The world needs more people like these. I'm sure their loss is deeply felt by their family and friends.
I just want to add that Dr. Grande has a nice sense of humor!
I think it would be really interesting if you analyzed the movie “What About Bob?” from a clinician’s perspective.
It's one of my favourite movies!
That would be great😂
Filmed in my home town!
Movies are fiction unless it's a biography.
What's the point on analyzing fiction ?
Only americans believe their movies are real
@$$ Wagy $$
Saying all of over 300 MILLION people think exactly the same as saying all muslims are bad
AND is the anti thesis to common sense and decency.
I am of the opinion that if you go on such an adventure, you have to expect the unexpected. For some reason I constantly think of my safety, I think women do more often then men. I would deliberately avoid dangerous scenarios, like walking around alone at night. Probably, just like the couple at first, I guess nothing at all would happen to me. Yet we know that doing this action brings up the odds much higher than just staying at home for example.
Riding alone as Westeners in an area that is 97% muslim whilst they knew isis is a thing, is akin of me walking around at night near a hostel containing sex offenders. Actually the chance of the couple being attacked is slightly higher than as if I were to walk home.
Yes I think they were naive. At the time they were doing their trip I would have avoided quite a few countries for various reasons just to be on the safe side and common sense. It was incredibly naive to think that no bad person would ever come to hurt them, let alone not being prepared for such an event.
They would have been better off staying in Europe. I have travelled through quite a few countries in Europe on my own. Just was careful. What a sad story
I agree. Women have their antennae up for danger far more than males do, because it's the danger some males pose to us that make it necessary. Women's intuition is there for a reason.
When a person takes life threatening risks the law of averages is stacked up against them. This couple had a lot of close calls which for most people would have been enough to end the trip. But these were an eccentric couple and the law of averages finally caught up with them if not in an unexpected way.
First I wanted to mention that your most recent video on Patreon was excellent!👌🏼It kept me reflecting about it for the whole day.
Regarding this video- it seems exciting to visit different places and learn about different cultures and people, but the reality of it can be very different from the fantasy. While there are many good people in the world, the opposite is also true, imo.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us Dr. Grande.❤️
the chances of these cyclists running into these nutters was extremely slim, they just got very unlucky and it cost them , RIP
Not very slim in a country that borders ISIS...
It's not slim at all, especially in 2021.
Not slim at all. I live in a "good" area in WNY near Niagara Falls and I run into nutters all the time who seem normal at first, dressed nice, have a job and a car, and when I start to get to know them, they start to creep me the fuck out! Not kidding! There is something wrong with people. I strictly keep to myself now.
@@judaspreistvlct
i am absolutely sure homicide is worse in the USA than tajikistan
Informative and balanced view. Couldn't ask for a better presentation
If you assume everyone has the best intentions, you will find out the hard way that you're wrong. There are evil people in this world.
You are spot on as per usual!