✔️FINALLY! .22 LR Specifically for Self Defense - Federal Punch (.22 LR Flat Nose VS .38 SPL LSWC)
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- čas přidán 7. 06. 2021
- Testing out the Federal Punch ammunition in .22 Long Rifle, and comparing it to .38 Special. The reason to compare such rounds is that both a small .38/.357 pocket (snub nose) revolver can fill the same role as a .22 LR pocket pistol. The Federal Punch .22 LR is a 29 gr flat nose bullet with an advertised velocity of 1,080 FPS from a 2" barrel (previously listed as 1,070 FPS), and I am testing through my 2.4" Beretta Bobcat 21A. The .38 Special is a 158 gr LSWC bullet that is my own hand load (4.5 gr Universal) and I am testing that through my 2" Taurus 605. Testing by shooting into 10% Clear Ballistics and also doing a 25 yard accuracy drill. Always appreciative of any channel help :) www.patreon.co...
- Sport
So I wanted to mention that Caldwell's light system is not very good. This is the second one I have had because the original quit working and Caldwell replaced it, now the replacement does not work. After some investigation by messing with all of it, basically the on/off switches are faulty. I just direct wired around the switch and they work fine, you just have to unplug the power unit rather than turn it off. If you happen to have two power units you could just use one per light bar too if you wanted to not do any wire cutting. I got it working and on a different video (The Argument is OVER! 💩9mm Does NOT and CANNOT Rival 💣.357 Magnum! (😔Even with 9mm +P+😪) I had issues at first with test reads that day, THEN I hooked up the lights I spliced together and had no misreads in that video. I hope this info might help someone.
I have the same chronograph. It is definitely very light sensitive especially with smaller projectiles. With the lights it usually works pretty well.
You should compare punch vs. cci stinger in gel so everyone can see that punch is not worth the premium price you pay when the box says self defense.
Stingers will give same penetration with more expansion and cost less. Nuff said.
What is semi wadcutter the difference between full waddcuter
@@fredmiller4110 that is untrue.
9mm better. 357 is boomer fudd nonsense. 🤣
Remember folks A wise man once said a hit with a 22 is always better than a Miss with a 44
Do two hits with a 22 equal one with a 44?
Yes a hit with anything better than nothing.
But it make sense to us a caliber in-between the 2 extremes. To give you the best chance for a hit and hopefully give you a good chance to stop your attacker.
@James D, and Hal Weiss.................just don’t miss with the .44🤷🏻♂️ Lol just kidding
@@craigcook1571 not bad advice.
I actually carry a little 5 shot subnosed 44. If its got mag. Ammo in it its the 180gr full power federal or winchester in it.
I do often carry with specials in it luckily the 200 gr silver tip hp hits to the same point at 15 yds.
I really don't recommend the mags for most people. It takes a lot of time to get ustp it out of a carry gun.
But for me I used it. Because I more than likely to need it for hogs or coyotes.
@@tbjtbj4786 👍🏻
Couple of things Sam
1.) I and many others really appreciate the time and effort you put into these productions - not everyone, but I suspect a lot of people realize the work involved in making these videos, and that isn't even including the cost or the time. It is a LOT of work to put out quality content such as what you do.
2.) I know it has to be very frustrating, but I hate to see you get defensive over the chronograph. Folks seem to expect a "Hollywood" version of everything. One of the best parts about your videos are when things don't go as planned - seems more real and honest to me. And, maybe I am being naive here, but those that choose to point those things out are (hopefully) just trying to help.
Thanks for what you do Sam, and especially HOW you do it!
👏 yes!!!!! Well spoken
^ totally
This is basically my edc rig. Only a ruger lcp 2 22lr loaded with the federal punch. Not because im crippled up, or recoil sensitive. It is so compact i can carry it with zero changes to anything i did before i carried every day, i had to make it reliable but thats another story, it is reliable, and i can hit with it. Seeing this test confirmed what ive thought all along. The 22 is grossly underestimated by most. Are there more capable cartridges out there? Yes, almost all of them. Will this fit alot of peoples needs and allow them to have tools on their person to defend themselves if need be? Yes. I have caught so much crap for being a big burly man with a mouse gun in my pocket i am might near surgical with, from my friends with their 45’s, 357’s, 9mm’s in the glove box of their truck or 5 hours away in their nightstand. It blows my mind. Sure its not macho or even beastly, but ive never seen anyone shot by one having a good day, or doing too much of anything other than seeking medical treatment, or taking the environmental temperature challenge.
What did you do to get it running punch ok??
Bro yeah what did you do to make your 22 lcp reliable? I kept getting light striker hits with both of mine so I eventually sold em' and got a keltec P17. It runs literally anything all day it's so much more reliable than either one of my lcp22lrs were
I made a mistake with my .38 Special penetration quotes at 7:57 and 10:05. I got the first one right when I said 18" as it stopped at 16" in gel and adding the MDF would make it 18", but without the MDF it penetrated a straight 19" and had enough to punch the jug, so I will still say that one was 21". Even though the diameter of the recovered MDF bullet was smaller than the plain gel bullet, the MDF bullet (which you cannot see from the top), had a much more deformed nose so I think this accounts for the "three inch" difference instead of "2 inch". We also should probably deduct the 1/4" of MDF off, but I sort of left that part alone as adding 1/4" to everything makes it a lot more complicated than it needs to be for an amount that's not even note worthy.
22 is one of the most underestimated rounds ever and the high count of bodies tied to it has proven that it punches a hole and is small enough for anyone to use so it has a place now more then ever with new ammo i carry bigger but in a pinch it would do
Good job reviewing the .22 for self-defense! I carried a Ruger SR.22 for a long time!
I was taught aim small miss small It is call shot placement
@@jamesberry1349 A squirrels head is small, I never missed! 😁
My wife carries the SR.22 and has for a few years. Great little gun and she is dead accurate with it (better than me). Although she has decided to pick up an LCP .380. I may just aquire that SR for a backup to my .38
A friend gave me a modern reprint of Maj Julian Hatcher’s Pistols and Revolvers and Their Use. It came out in 1927 and had a lot of famous tests that couldn’t be repeated today. They shot cadavers and measured the swing of a limb and steers at a slaughterhouse. It most certainly dealt with the stopping power of small and large bore handguns of the day, but in dealing with leathality, he mentioned the .22lr as not necessarily a “stopper”, but an almost certain killer in the border fighting over bootleg liquor during prohibition. The remote areas and medicine of the day made pulling out someone’s intestines and plugging holes was not something easily survived! I don’t want someone mag dumping a 10-22 on me out in front of the best hospital in the country today!
Great test and comparison! After you pointed it out I do see the similarity between the two bullet designs. Very interesting. Impressed by the velocity numbers for the Punch out of the Bobcat. Also, you hitting at 25 yards with both guns - nice. I need to find some Punch for my 21A. Thanks for this test.
You might want to try comparing this .22 ammo to a few popular .22 loads. Thanks for posting.
Great video....
I like your quote : "it's better to have a skill and not need it than to need a skill and not have it".
I feel the same way: "proper planning prevents poor performance"
Slainte 🇺🇲🇮🇪
Cci stingers have been around since the early 80s or before. Also federal yellow jackets. Aguila has been making hyper velocity ammo for some time as well
I'll take the extra bullet weight of a CCI Velocitor. 40gr vs 32gr
Remington makes the yellow jacket not Federal
@@gregoryjsnyder8150 Yeah, 32 grain is awful light. imho.
Once in a blue moon I would see Remington Viper ammunition for sale, but not for a very long time. The Viper ammo seems to have preceeded the new Federal load by a large margin.
I was just thinking this isn't "new".
Another great and educational video! My view on the 22 has definitely changed a little bit thanks to this awesome video. Keep up the great work and thank you!
Something I never see with these gel test of pocket pistols is shots right against the gel to simulate a 'get off me' like scenario.
Would be a good idea for some of these aging blocks. I think a lot of people don't do it with Clear Ballistics as it will burn a huge hole in it and then they have to throw away a good chunk rather than melt it again, but like I said that's an excellent idea for an older block like what I have in this video.
@@GunSam It's just a thought. I can see all the reasoning behind shooting at say 5 to 10 yards. But we are wider than we are deep. And this last ditch scramble is after all what these tiny pistols are about. Thank you for taking the trouble to reply.
That would be a good one.
I’ve never seen any tests relative to a triple-tap from a semi-auto 22 or 25 acp. , but I would think that the total wound channel surface area would be enough to instantaneously produce significant blood loss, and impart energy and subsequent trauma that is the simple arithmetic sum of all three rounds, and even the most minimally skilled person can easily squeeze off 3 shots inside of 2 seconds, and 95% of them can do it inside of one. I noticed the precious Baretta 22 jammed, but my little $80 Phoenix Arms (Raven) .25 ACP has never jammed.
@@thatfeeble-mindedboy Thank you for detailed and long reply. What you say makes me think of stabbing.
Your 1041 fps with those 22 Punch from the 2.4" barrel pretty well confirms my 1084 fps average from the Ruger's 2.75" barrel.
Your ability to consistantly hit the 1 or 2 inch hold to put your second and third shots into your gel is crazy. You haven't missed any on all the videos I watch!
Now, the bullet doesn't always do what you want it to, but, the initial impact of the round is spot on.
I still think you are crazy when you shot your water jugs in winter. Because I can feel the cold water hitting me while freezing cold. Lol.
Great video with some unexpected results in my mind. Was not thinking such small bullet would pass through the 4 layers of denim and the 3 inches of gel and 1/4 inch board and end up with 13 inches of penetration. 29 grains just did seem in my mind have enough mass to push past all that. So I learned something for sure.
As usual another outstanding experiment. I like that you’re not so absolutely anti .22 lr for self defense. My wife will occasionally carry her .22 with me and my .357 edc. We’ve always felt that getting hit with a few unexpected .22’s would definitely change an assailant’s plan for that day. My only hang up with a .22 as a stand alone defensive round is that rimfire reliability. Sure, I’ve shot 400 to 500 rounds in a row without a failure to fire, but there’s always that 1 and if it happens to be the 1 that counts, the result could be quite the pickle. Keep up your fine work and I look forward to seeing what you try next.
Revolvers (and quality ammo) solve that.. just pull the trigger again. The new snubby .22s give you 8 rounds.
Really like my lightweight 8 shot revolvers for concealed carry:. Ruger LCR 22 snubbed and S&W 43c 22lr snubbed. Both outstanding. Each has its own very different trigger experience--i use Winchester SilverTip ammo. In multifamily setting and would no want over penetration.
Thanks for testing the merits of 22 LR personal defense.
Thanks for watching! My subscribers make it that much more fun for me, as i'd be doing these tests with or without youtube.
In my limited experience of shooting, if I were relying on a rimfire cartridge for self defence I would prefer a revolver. I'm a sports shooter (.22) and have had occasional failures to eject, feed.
I think it depends of a few factors. I would generally agree, but if we were to compare lets say a little longer barrel revolver I would say that the Ruger 22/45's are a hard to beat semi auto. I used to run 500 round boxes of ammo through that thing with no malfunctions.
@@GunSam Great vid, Sam! I want a 22lr revolver very badly, but have heard such terrible things about heavy triggers. I'd love an LCR, but I've heard the rimfire models' triggers are hit or miss (some are great & some are so horrific that the owner gets rid of it). Any thoughts?
Another concern with those occasional misfires is what it takes to clear a Beretta (or Taurus) tip-up barrel, since racking the slide won't do it. I actually own the 21A and the PT22, though I carry neither. But, were I to carry a pocket rimfire, the LCP-II Lite-Rack is looking pretty good.
@@sissydreams7494 Take snap caps and dry fire before you buy. But do buy one!
@@sissydreams7494 I have an LCR and LCR X both in .22lr. The trigger on both Is excellent, very smooth. I’ve e never had a failure of any kind with either, can’t say the same about my autos.
Sam;
Any testing is valuable as it adds to the collective knowledge. I conclude that some are better than others, any are better than nothing, and most are good enough. Just for us old dogs perhaps you could try some 158 RNL 38 Spl standard nostalgia loads.
Great test Sam. If you were looking for a 22lr round for self defense I think this would be a good one and I've always liked semi wadcutters and wadcutters out of the 38 special. Especially the ones not rated for +p ammo. Both of these work well.
Thanks. I found that the Punch and Aguila Interceptor are the only two good rounds for this pistol thus far, or any short barrel pistol I should say as i'm going by terminal ballistics.
absolutely!
Wow! Eye opening validation of the right 22LR ammo and the options for damage factor. A fast trigger and a heavy round speaks the talk and delivers. talk to my 25 round mag of 22LR!
Glad you did this. Both are great rounds. I am planning on adding my ruger lcrx 357 with 38 special loads to my rotation. My 22lrs will be for super light carry during exercise sessions and when I get too old to shoot 9mm or 38.
When I'm gone for the night my wife keeps a 15-22 loaded with 26 rounds of CCI stinger's, along with her 9mm handgun, beside the bed. She can handle the 22 better than one of our bigger rifles and it's not as loud inside the house. With the 9mm backup she should be able to handle about anything.
I had a very high FTE and FTF rate in my Beretta 21A with Federal Punch. I gave up and went back to CCI Mini Mags. Glad to see it worked for you.
Have you tried Winchester SilverTip in 22lr--marketed as a segmented SD round
Great video. Thanks for showing the new Federal 22 load. Glad to see it cycled well, albeit the one FTF. Looking to use with M&P 22 and 22 Compact. Subscribed.
This ammo's velocity in an LCP! czcams.com/video/z9FHrDLnjCM/video.html&t
I had to smile when you said it's better to have the skill and not need it than to need it and not have it. From the time I was a small boy my dad taught me the exact same thing. He called it "the camping rule". Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
Another most excellent video! Thank you for the quality…
My go-to carry load for the Bobcat was the Remington 40-grain golden bullet solid. I don’t know the velocities or how well they would have penetrated; but the Golden Bullet was reliable and relatively accurate from the Bobcat. I had also fired a number of bricks of REM Viper hyper velocity down the pipe. It too was reliable, but I figured a little too strong when a rolled pin on my first 21A started working out in the first mag or two of a range session. I ended up getting a 2nd Bobcat because of that. There was a CCI load, probably the Stinger that didn’t work well, but I found these little guns to be reliable when I kept the chambers brushed out ever 50 rounds or so. I don’t know the status of the Remington Golden Bullet at this time, and most of us are just happy with whatever ammo we can get.
I also noticed that the Aguila Interceptor 40 gr was one of the most reliable, and that was over 1,000 FPS in the Bobcat, so very hot. Seems like the hotter the better for my pistol for reliability.
The big question is how the Punch compares to conventional 40gr RN .
@@GunSam give it time and it will break in. I have some 40 grain Aguila that I haven’t shot out of a Bobcat, but I experienced misfired from a Smith Model 34. Worked fine from a 10/22 however. As I may have said somewhere, both of mine are at a Beretta authorized service center presently getting refreshed after years of carrying and shooting. Wasn’t sure if it was worth it, but then I realized how much a new 21A costs. My first one was made around 1985 and I bought it new. That one got the most abuse. The second one was purchased around three years later cause I wanted a reliable carry gun. Should have had the first one fixed then. Anyway, these little guns are just about the neatest thing since sliced bread - at least in the .22LR world.
Really liking these new versions of your tests. Great watch
Thanks. I plan some jug-or-not and bologna tests periodically still.
The 22 penetration is right in the zone. The 38 SWC was good too see. A heavier Keith Type SWC (typically about 173 gr at probably 800-850 fps from a 4" or longer barrel) is known as a good game bullet and is often used for hunting or animal defense. It is said that SWC's and WC's have a tendency to crush tissue rather than just pushibg through it as RN bullets do, thus making them more effective. I would think that a good SWC cast somewhat soft would be effective at medium velocity. There are SWCHP bullet moulds out there too. And of course we know that the 38+p LSWCHP has been stopping bad guys since 1972. Any 22, even the 22 WMR, is not the first choice for self defense, but you may not have a choice. Lots of people carry 22's as kit/trail/tackle box guns. So the Punch looks like a good choice for that.
Always a good video. Thanks for the work you put into the shooting comparisons and finalizing a video results. Take care.
Thank you.
I love your videos I get excited when I get the notifications.
Thank you.
Wife’s had a Bobcat since 1990, CCI stingers have been the round of choice.
Great test as always. Good to know that if you do have one of these pocket .22s you're not losing performance over a full length barrel.
I think that was because his longer barrel was a revolver. Paul Harrel had them going faster from his 5 inch. I think by a few hundred fps.
Beretta Bobcat is a wicked fun little gun and super easy to carry. Thank you for a great presentation.
Thanks. Yeah I have found that the nylon generic ankle holster is hard to beat for it. Weighs the same as my .380 LCP loaded.
I agree, as long as it's reliable. I wish mine was.
@@GunSam I use a Crossbreed Pocket Rocket holster but I'm considering a belly band for summer. I would like to ask your opinion on summer carry options. Maybe it would be a good video subject?
@@Just1American1966 I have found mine likes CCI Mini mags and Remington golden bullet so far, havent tried lead nose yet though.
Two things in the video I noticed about using a semi-auto for self-defense -- 1) failure to feed and 2) safety switch on. The S&W 43C might fill the self-defense role a little better.
Also, to minimize overpenetration with the .38 SPL, I use COR®BON’s DPX® +P all-copper hollow point, 110 gr., 1050 fps (from a snub nose), 269 fpe. Nice round, but not fun to shoot from a 15 oz handgun.
I have a 43c 8 shot s&w already and going to buy its big brother 442 in the morning for a back up gun😁
@@truthseeker1833 I've got a 642 with a Sticky Holster for concealed carry. It's got a heavy trigger, but you're used to that. The recoil, however, with +P ammo is brutal. I love the gun but it's not fun to shoot.
Speaking of self-defense ammo. I did some research and found that generic .38 spl hollow-point ammo doesn't want to expand when shot from a 1-7/8" barrel. Going too slow. 4" barrel, fine.
So I use the all-copper Cor-Bon DPX round. 110gr / 1050fps / 269ftlbs. Expensive, but it does the job. So they say.
You make so many video. I freaking love it! Thank you!!
Thank you.
Elmer Keith came up with the best hand gun bullet I'm glad a 22 Long Rifle is using a SWC you got to love it thx.
That Taurus is our bedside table gun, and my wife's ccw. Never fails to fire, and can handle any ammo it is fed. At just over 200 bucks. Every home needs one like it.
I wonder why you did chose a 22 auto not a 22 snubnose. Especially with rimfire I would prefer a revolver.
Go back a few videos to see where he brings it out for the first time and listen to the explanation.
I wanted a small .22 auto, plus there were not many options at my store plus the LCR they had was like $550, so I just went with what I been wanting for awhile, as I wanted to fit it into my revolver VS auto type of testing.
@@GunSam I got a LCR in .22 mag used plus I traded something else in. I saw a LCR in .22 lr new for about that. Yeah. Not worth it to me
@@GunSam I have seen your older video about your experience with Taurus .22 revolvers. But now you again have a Taurus revolver. Didnt you consider the 942? Its a newer model mabe they dont have that transferbare problem.
Definitely need to get some punch for my 21A. That’s my gym gun and it’s an extremely easy carry option for any scenario.
When I heard that Federal had come out with .22 "self-defense ammo" I was expecting something a little more exotic.
The older I get the less impressed I am with "exotic". Simple and effective is my jam.
@@mkshffr4936 The thing is, I don't really see how this would be any more effective than a pack of CCI Mini-Mags. But it sure as hell costs more. I saw a box of Federal Punch at the gun store the other day. $9.99 for 50 rounds.
@@sorenpx Agreed 100%, or even more so, 40 grain Velocitors which are minimags + 200 fps. Although, the latter aren't cheap either.
@@grandinquisitor1522 Velocitors were actually the first .22 round I ever bought. I went into the gun store and that's all they had.
I think I actually need to amend my previous statement though. If I'm remembering correctly, Paul Harrell did a test with the Punch and they DID penetrate more than the Mini-Mags, and I believe the velocity from short barrels was higher, so I guess the Punch does carry some advantages.
@@sorenpx That may be, but I think the 40 grain CCIs minimag or greater do hit the 12 inches. I'm not sure I trust 29 grains for barrier or bone.
You have the best theme song than all the other gun channels!
Winchester has also started making Silvertips in 22lr! I’d love to see a video on those if you can get them!
czcams.com/video/-PahJnzpasU/video.html
I missed that video! Thanks!
The video on the Silvertips DID NOT appear in CZcams listings! Not in "all" or in "recently posted" or in "my subscriptions." Your link here does work though, so maybe post it above, as apparently nobody else saw it either...........................elsullo
Thank you for the quality work/testing.
How is the trigger pull on the .22? My S&W .38 kicks like a SOB and as I get older, it has become too much for me.
Bro good at his measurements always been impressed by that even when you did just water jugs his figures 99% of the time matched what rounds did in gel
Two of the best rounds on earth.
chronys dont like silver color shinny projectiles, i had them since 1995 and they are fussy with them silver type colors including bbs from air guns even with sensor windows clean, other then that being to close with smoke from gun or CO2 from airguns can sometimes mess up readings
Good test. I never expected the 22's to do so well.
We got 30 - 40 lbs. bobcats on the creek here and that’s about as big a critter as I would try to run off with a 22 handgun . But hey in self defense mode it might save your neck . From what testing and hunting I’ve done over the years I would shoot twice and call it one hit . Short of hitting cns or a sweet spot I suspect it might take multiple rounds to equal the old 38
4:10. Ricochet nearly took out the camera.
Thanks for taking the time to do this, very useful info.
Great vid & test. Thanks👍!
Thanks!
What's that .38 loaded with, coal! Damn smokey cartridge!!
4.5 gr Universal. Probably a CCI 500 primer. That's the max charge for this load, so probably why so smoky.
@@GunSam Thought you had some charcoal left over from the BBQ! 😁
Those chronographs can be finicky about lighting. Mine completely failed to read once because I was using it indoors under a fluorescent light that apparently had a tiny bit of transformer flicker. I moved it to an incandescent light and it worked fine.
I am suprised your semi-auto fed the punch, works great in revolver.
It failed to feed or eject at least once that I saw but otherwise solid. Mossad ran those beretta 22lrs for a while for assassination work with supressors.. they were very effective. Israel doesn't mess around
200+ rounds through my Kel Tec P17 without a problem. Good stuff.
@ Gun Sam _Revolver Aficionado_
With your .22lr tests, did you notice any problems with the minimal longer stangers and velocitors based on some chambers? I've read about it concerning specific sport rifle chambers.
I don't think I shot the stingers yet, but the velocitors seemed fine.
Here’s ballistics for people. My wife and more or less all her friends are in the world of trauma.
They get people just as dead when shot by a 22lr as they do shot by a 45.
Getting shot is getting shot. In the grand scheme of things when talking about bullet size, the smallest bullet size compared to the largest is, what, 1/16 of an inch? I’m not really worried about that.
If you own a 22lr for self defense. Get ammo. Shoot it. Understand it.
If you own a 45. I promise you won’t shoot it nearly as much as the person shooting with a 22lr.
500 rounds for $40
Or
500 rounds for $550.
People,argue that center fired cartridges are markedly more reliable. What’s more, it’s not the diameter they’re talking about, but grains and energy. I agree with your point though to an extent, but if a pit bull attacked you, would you still argue for the .22? A human being is more rational and will break off an attack faster than a dog.
You might want to try .38 spc semi wadcutter hollow points they should illuminate any over penetration issuses.
I have many times. Issue with those is they over expand, but the reason for what I used is because the .22 is not a hollow point, so I wanted to make the test similar.
It would be interesting to see how this ammo performs out of a snubnose revolver, like a Ruger LCR. Speaking of which, don't know if you used one in .22, people say that the trigger is much worse than in centerfire versions, like the .327 you carry. I am curious how much worse it is, and would it impede normal operation by an average person (older, woman, etc).
All the 22 revolvers I tried had a very heavy da trigger. 22 rounds need a heavy hammer strike for reliable ignition. You will see the difference between the 38 ruger lcr and the 22 lcr .
I have an LCR. 16lbs trigger and it's bad. I wanted the S&W but it was out of stock. The Smith weighs just 10 oz. The Ruger 15 oz. You don't need that heavy of a trigger pull, you need a firing pin with less blunt profile. If there is priming under the crushed part of the rim, it will fire. Making the surface area of the tip of the firing pin broad is a mistake. For a 16lbs trigger pull, I would like to see a firing pin that double strikes, at opposite sides of the rim, greatly improving reliability of ignition. The Smith is easily tuned also with it's flat mainspring and coil trigger return spring. The Ruger is a pain in the butt to replace the torsion mainspring. The s&w is worth every penny extra. 10 oz compared to 15oz you almost don't know it's there.
👍 that was good shooting at 25yd for little guns. I’m looking forward to trying some of the Punch in my Browning Camp.
Thank you.
If a .22LR can be used for personal/home defense then my semiautomatic/full automatic.25 caliber LCS SK-19 could be used in a pinch also. It has 19 rounds of 38.5 grain HP slugs that it pushes @ 1000 FPS @ 85 FPE. It is regulated and is filled to 3650 PSI. never leaks, and shoots the same constant speed within 8 FPS over 50 shots. Granted the .22 or even the .38 is a hell of a lot cheaper option and doesn’t cost 2.1K$ but still….I wouldn’t want hit with it for sure or anything for that matter.
I'll bet it's bigger than a pocket pistol!
@@GunSam yes sir…it’s about 34” or so🥴☺️.
@@heathhalfhill6867 I have always respected airguns that don't use spring compression. I grew up on pneumatic ones and what always stood out was that you can literally shoot anything from them that fits the bore. So, something not dependent on a spring is definitely a good survival tool, as if times get bad you can experiment on what it will shoot.
@@heathhalfhill6867 speaking of springers... I want to ask you somethin since I see ya around a lot. What do you think the life is of a Gamo spring? I've read anywhere from 1000-3000. Seems kinda low to me. I've probably put 2000 through mine in the last month. I inherited the gun (used) as a gift and it seemed to have more power when I first got it last year. On occasion it won't cock and actually lock ( maybe 2 or 3X out of 100) I think it has a broken coil honestly, but do you have any eperience or insight on spring life?
The .22 has a surprising amount of muzzle flash
Yep. That's what you get when shooting a round designed for a rifle barrel from one barely over twice its length. I noticed how stark the difference is indeed when I shot a Taurus P22 alongside a PT25 at the range. The rimfire definitely showed its greater "bark-n-spark."
Not really suprising. Pretty common when shooting rifle rounds in extremely short barrels.
i'm pretty sure that's the excess gasses escaping from the barrel.
it's almost impossible to ustalize a high velocity round in such a small barrel because the gasses don't have enough space to push the bullet forward, so most of it is wasted through the muzzle.
the idea of using high powered rounds in miniscule guns is pointless, and has little benefit apart from feeling more powerful, despite not haveing significantly as much power as it would suggest.
@@TheCowboyfromhell87 or a .357 magnum from a two inch barrel.
@@grzegorzbrzeczyszykiewic3338
We're talking about the .22 Long Rifle cartridge here. Hardly a "high-powered" round, no matter what gun from which it's fired. No one uses it to "feel more powerful."
Are you familiar with the .22LR round at all?
Thanks again. Appreciate your videos and your quick replies. Have a great night.
Thanks, you too!
CCI minimags,get them.
Very interesting results from both those loads. It would be interesting to see the punch bullet loaded in .22 mag.
it would be interesting, however if they did release it I have my doubts about what bullet they would use. Personally, i'd like to see something like a 50 gr hollow point so we don't over-expand but still maybe expand a little, plus heavier makes more sense when you want some good pressure with not a lot of barrel length to burn powder.
This is one of the best videos you have ever done. Thank you so much !!
Thank you. May I ask what I did that makes it good? It seemed similar to some of the others, other than a slight angle change at the 25 yard shooting.
I really love the new simulated organic target, it really seems to be as similar as possible to a real life organic threat. This also happens to be nearly an identical comparison to the types of guns and ammunition that I needed.
@@GunSam The only other thing I could see adding might be a second test adding one more piece of medium density fiberboard after another 2-4 inches to simulate striking a hand bone or an arm/shoulder bone striking a target from either side of their body. So have it pass through 2 pieces of medium density fiberboard for a second test.
@@GunSam you know for those Miami Dade FBI types 😉
@@327Federal I had thought about putting MDF on the back side of the block to fully cover it, because a body has back ribs, and the whole over penetration thing I hear about is always shown through a bullet exiting a gel block. I feel like rear ribs simulation would be better.
I love my 38 special. I prefer to carry mi 4" barrel 38 but I have a snub nose for work and have the 38+P HST rounds that look like hollow point wad cutters. I would love to see a test of those. They are made for short barreled guns.
I have tested them many times. I don't care for them as they shoot slower in a 4" barrel than a 2" barrel and penetrate half as well as what is adequate.
@@GunSam Shouldn't they shoot faster in a longer barrel?
A lot of chronys wont pickup shiny lead pistol bullets. Try coloring them with a marker
I left in the middle of Hickok45's Max 9 video to watch this. Just sayin'!
I mean, his stuff is good but.....
@@GunSam but he rambles a lot lol
25 ACP test request with punch ?, great video, thanks Sam.
Thanks, but Federal does not make a .25 ACP Punch, and I don't have a .25 ACP pistol.
impressed with the kinetic hitting power of these .22lr
loads......
The lsraeli hit squad used a Beretta model 71 pistol in .22 LR..
must be effective, considering a plethora of handguns in various calibers at their disposal and they chose this combination
Great video. I noticed at 9:16 you tried to fire a round and nothing happens. Then you realized that the safty was still on. I can't tell you how many times I've seen experienced shooters, who would swear that they would never do that under a stressful situation, because they train. Even if you train constantly, which most people won't or can't, we are still flawed human beings and make mistakes especially under stress. Before any keyboard commandos start typing train train train, ask yourself, "do i know anyone who is overweight, doesn't exercise enough or doesn't eat well enough?" People don't always do what they should. In my humble opinion, I only carry Da/SA revolvers or semi's with no external safty. My edc is a Beretta px4 storm with decock only. I'm not telling anyone what they should carry, just something to think about. Keep the great videos coming 👍
I frequently carry North American Arms mini-revolver in .22Mag (Pug and Ranger II). I use Speer GD for short barrel. Both guns and the round are extremely handy for what they are designed to do: “get off me” self-protection. Believe me, no one want 3 .22Mag heading through center chest and 2 rounds at your face.
...if it rings when you hit it - it's a "GONGGG!!!"
Magnum versus lightweight...lol. I love .22 revolvers though. Thank you!
You have upset the chipmunk,🤣 I hear that little bastard chirping almost the whole time.
My Taurus PT-22 likes Punch and shoots it very well. I carry it as a 2nd gun occasionally or when its difficult to conceal something bigger.
I have often wondered what the minimum velocity would have to be to get a 148 bbwc or a 158 swc to go 12 inches in a test set up like yours?
Probably about an even 600 FPS would do it.
Hey Sam. well IF WE wanted to WE could open up a huge can of Worms. IMHO the .22lr has a place in self defense BOTH in Handguns and Rifles. The new Federal Punch seems to have been slightly Inspired by the CCI Stinger. I do think a swc profile is FAR superior to a Hollow Point in .22lr! In fact when I bought my wife a Walther p22 back in the day I loaded it exclusively with cci Mini mag SOLIDS. In fact that Walther HATED any other .22lr load. My favorite ,38 special loads for defense are (do not laugh) the 148 mid range wadcutter and the 158 grain swc hollowpoint +p. Still coming in a CLOSE second is ANY semi wadcutter. The reasons are obvious. Incidentally Jimmy Cirillo of the NYPD stakeout squad started experimenting with cast projectiles in .38 caliber that very extremely similar to the wasp waisted Pellets used in airguns except he cast em HARD! the results were amazing. They would not only impart energy better when they connected with even a piece of a target they were devastating!
That 38 is clearly hydrophobic and froze as soon as he saw the water jugs!
like you said, could be the lighting due to hit and miss readings...i was just at the range and tested 223 & 556 & 22 wmr and all read perfectly fine but...when I went to test some 9mm Sierra HP V-Crown loads, i made 15 of them, they would not read and I dont know know y...all the conditions were the same...i just didnt get it
I get the chronograph thing. I've got the same one. It works fine then a cloud goes over or a butterfly flaps it's wings and it's a no go.
I kinda miss the juggernaut box.
Excellent video!, thanks for this bro! 👍🏽
What on earth makes these things penetrate so far? Tool and Targets has been running Punch test and has been getting the same results. Amazing stuff.
Man, I saw a little Berretta Bobcat like that about a week before I bought the Ruger LCP II in 22 LR, and I almost bought it. Still looks like fun.
I also looked all over for the LCP .22, but ultimately when I was at my favorite store, they happened to have this or the SR22, and I was really preferring getting into pocket pistols.
The Beretta is an objectively superior pistol.
@@smartacus88 as I am learning!
The trigger is bad on the LCP .22. Feels like the button on a barbecue lighter. It’s like you’re just mashing the trigger down, no break. Sights are basic.
I'd like to see someone test 500 rounds of Federal Punch and see if they all ignited, or if they had any misfires. Compared to say 500 Mini Mags.
Good video as usual 👌
When cronos first came out, less than ideal lighting resulted in misreads. Solution was to cast artificial light on the screens. Don't know how practical that would be for you, but since you are shooting in the timber, that might be the issue.
99% of the time there's no issue out there, it's only on really overcast days in addition to the forest that give trouble. I have tried everything, and even when the lights work it's hit or miss. But then I will go onto doing like 10 videos in a row with zero misreads. No one ever comments on that lol, but I have one where it misreads and all hell breaks loose with chronograph comments.
Also surprised how far the Punch penetrated the gel. Cool test.
Thanks!
'A little different in size!'like comparing a puma running after you with a Bengal Tiger!mind either way you might be doomed although a Tiger will greatly increase the chance of expiring!
You showed us what the Punch can do, thank you. As long as you have wood and gel penetration tests, I can do without the chronograph test.
Question: Would you rather carry the .22lr Punch in a NAA Black Widow revolver or the Beretta? Is the Beretta fumble prone? Thanks, Steve.
I don't know. Both of those seem like an even choice. Now, if I go and buy the ridiculously priced 21A magazines for $50 so I have more than one, I would say the Bobcat is better. As it sits the Black Widow might be better, but I never shot an NAA beyond the old 1" mini I used to have.
@@GunSam From what I understand, once you get to the two inch barrel on the NAA it is much better ballistics. I don't want any pistol with a magazine that expensive.
Thanks for your opinion, I know you know what you are talking about and give an honest answer!
I really like pocket pistols and if I had a new .22lr I favor the Black Widow. Right now it is not in my plans.
The Kel-Tec .32 ACP seems interesting, however, I don't know about their reliability. Hardball only to prevent rim lock. Steve
Punch is fine for a revolver, but it has not been very reliable in my 22 LR semi-autos, Ruger and Walther.
I got a Caldwell G2 chrono with the lighted screens and it almost never misses a reading. I use it in the middle of the night quite often when I’m reloading late and has no problem reading even on a moonless night.
You're good with that snubbie.
Not averse to .22, but I'll stick to minimags or if I want to ramp it up, CCI 40 grain Velocitors.
Both great options as well! Funny enough, punch is cheaper and more available for me to find. But I love my minimags stingers and would love to try velocitors some day but can never find them!
So to put this video in perspective.... would you carry the Ruger LCR (six shots) in 327 .... or the Tom Cat(reliability) or the Taurus (5 shot) ?? I think it would be the LCR in 327... now if you owned a LCR in 22LR it would have 8 shots and now with Punch ammo that could be very impressive for self defense...Still I think the versatility of the LCR in .327 Fed Mag with hollow points can be an attack stopper... Problem always with 22LR you need to be able to take head shots to turn out the lights. Center mass shots with any 22LR even with a great heart shot could go right thru and allow an attacker to do you harm before he dies. Federal Punch in 22LR is impressive for sure...What Brand of 38 special has similar features to your hand loads... while I have not seen any available recently it looks like a great performer.
I do carry the LCR .327 daily, but because I lost a part cleaning it I have to send it into Ruger, so now I carry the Taurus 5 shot. As far am ammo like my .38 Special ammo, that's tricky. Basically all of your target ammo like Winchester, Federal, Remington etc are going to push this bullet at 650 FPS from a 2" barrel, and your hotter stuff like Buffalo Bore or Underwood will have it going well over 1,000 FPS.