Is a .22 Good Enough for Self Defense? Part 2 - Specialized .22 LR Handgun Defensive Ammunition
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- čas přidán 10. 09. 2024
- Testing out the Federal Punch .22 LR and Winchester Silvertip .22 LR from my 2.68" Heritage Barkeep. Follow up on my original video found here: • Is a .22 Good Enough f...
Was a emt for a couple years and when I answered GSW calls, the person did not say “hey what caliber was I shot with?” No the screamed “ IVE BEEN SHOT!”
Thanks for your time and effort in making this video.
This argument will go on forever because most people choose how and what they carry based upon how they've imagined in their minds, that a self defense encounter will go and how they will respond.
I did notice that all but that first 22lr round you fired into the gel, penetrated deeper than either of the 38s.
To say that the size and expansion alone are definitively enough to make the 38 better, you'd have to assume that what you saw in the gel automatically translates to a more deadly or debilitating effect on the recipient.
That, of course, is not something one can automatically assume, because there's too many variables invloved.
I'm not angry, I just think getting shot is getting shot, and unless you're up against an attacker that is determined to fight you to the death, and is better trained and prepared than you are, the caliber argument goes out the window.
If 22lr from a pistol was inadequate for self defense, it would have been abandoned long ago, and you wouldn't have any deadly encounter statistics to compare it to, because everyone would have lived.
I'm certainly not calling it better than or equal to larger calibers, but in most cases, I'm calling it adequate for civilian self defense, if that's what one chooses.
Agree. Also shot placement is very important. Therefore any caliber is better if you actually hit the target.... So multiple shots of 22lr caliber hitting the target.....would seem to be a lot easier to use and hit the target for an average, non-frequent user than higher calibers.
As far you cannot shoot something bigger than 22, it can be better than nothing.
One of the most underrated gems on CZcams! Keep up the good work!
^ totally
Thanks a lot
Agree
@@GunSam anytime brother. Your the first channel I go to for anything handgun related.
@@thevirus6101 Yea he’s one of my favorites
Appreciate the follow up testing with "defensive" loads. 22 is definitely just poking small holes, got to place them precisely for them to be effective.
As with any load, shot placement is the most important thing to worry about. I mean, you can shoot 357 with +700flb and it won't do you any good if you can't hit the side of a barn.
@@randycchavez if you can't hit the side of a barn big as it is you should be shooting anyways
Hey man, I really enjoy your content. You can tell you put a lot of thought and effort into these videos. Very much in my wheelhouse.
Thanks for watching
❤
.22 lr is awesome. My wallet really loves it.
Interesting test, as always. The 22 wouldn’t be a first choice, but you use what you have. For years, my tiny stepmom kept a first gen Ruger standard auto in a kitchen cupboard. Sure it’s no 38 or 45, but she could empty it on target fairly quickly. These days my wife carries a 38 (or two) while I carry a 45. But I often supplement it with a pocket 22 auto (we’re rural, and some chores can be accomplished with a 22). I suspect millions of folks have a 22 around the house, and probably some name brand bulk hi-speed 22LR. It definitely beats harsh language.
Thank you for continueing to makeing great and informative content. You put a lot of thought and effort into what you do. I would have liked to see with denim and m.d.f. as well, adds to the real world results. My take away is don't bother with 22lr hollow points.
Thank you Sam for your integrity & honest reporting of facts. thank you.
Very well done test. Appreciate your candor. Please keep up with your content, there are those of us you truly benefit from what you do. Thank you.
Thanks!
… and saved a lot of us a lot of money buying ammo (or guns) that do not work as advertised! Thanks Sam!
I love .38 special and 22lr
Nobody likes to see their 'sacred cow' get gored. LOL. Excellent test! I really enjoy and appreciate your ammo test/comparison vids. Very thorough and objective tests covering velocity/accuracy, gel test, and then practical accuracy. Thanks for sharing!
Thank you
For what it is worth I enjoy your content and watch em all. It is interesting to see how defensive people get around their firearm/caliber preference. Many years ago I dabbled in IDPA tried several calibers eventually settled on a 9mm. Once had a fellow shooter make a comment about the inadequacy of the 9vs his 45 (again many years ago). Asked if he wanted to square off giving me the first shot. He said hell no you don’t miss. I pointed out that I could control the 9mm better than the 45 so I was happy. For those with a preferred caliber anything else is a waste of time. The 22 is a low power round but if it is what you can control then it is better than a string of unkind words.
You have a good weekend and don’t let the trolls drag you under their bridge.
Thank you, have a good weekend also.
Yes don’t know the exact date but in the very early 1900s the 38 Special went smokeless. So did the 45 Colt and the 44 Special. Because of the extra case capacity that black powder needed it was easy to beef up the case and have a special made into a magnum. Before the magnum was named there was a 38/44 which was a very hot 38 only to be used in N-frame Smith & Wessons. Only problem was they would fit in a standard 38 Special revolver. An error that could end in a explosion. Hense the longer case for the .357.
I stopped using 22LR on jackrabbits because even with a well placed shot they frequently survive long enough to escape down a hole. It's just not humane. Pretty much every other round out there does the trick though. I know this is apples and oranges, and shot placement is what matters, and we are not rabbits, but if 22LR does not drop small game them I would not trust it for self defense. If circumstances force you to use 22LR, head shots, get good at head shots.
Eyebox. 👍
Time for 2 or 3-rounds, the threat will no longer be on a b-line. So they turn and run a bit, well can’t see being threatened any longer? If you want Annihilation, use TNT 🧨.
the FBI standard is based on one time at band camp I hit a guy in the arm and the bullet went through his arm through his upper chest and stopped a 1/2 inch short of his heart and then he killed me. the FBI standard is if I shoot at you 9 times and only manage to hit you once I want you to drop dead and stop killing us. shoots on target are what stops a threat doesn't matter if it's a 22 lr or a 44 mag. if I shoot at you and miss with a damn elephant gun and you shoot back with a 22 and hit me, I lose. if you look at the history of the FBI they have been losing gun fights since they started carrying guns in 1934 and it is never the agent's fault, they always blame it on lack of firepower.
I agree with what you said in the last video. I just do not want to have to shoot someone in the head several times to stop an attack. I much rather have other possible spots to shoot an attacker. However I also understand the other side of the coin. If all you can handle is a 22 for whatever reason then more power to that person. I’ll take a 22 over a rock or sharp stick any day of the week. At the end of the day our 2A is VERY important regardless what your tool of choice is to defend yourself.
I hear ya. You wouldn't believe the number of comments I get on all my .22 videos about dropping livestock with .22 LR. I am so over it lol. I mention the livestock thing when you said shooting someone in the head several times as I thought about a point. I grew up on the farm and I have actually shot large animals in the head, and when it is aimed exactly right with a muzzle press it works, but if you try to shoot something in the head from any distance, the .22 can bounce off, real world experience. So having something with enough power to reliably work is important.
@@GunSam exactly hell the old FBI/police 158 grain lead Round nose load was retired because it was found to deliver glancing blows to the head. Just food for thought 💭 if you can it’s probably wise to get something more powerful then a 22. Furthermore if 22 was sooooo good at defense then we would not have the calibers we have now. 22LR has been around a long time but advancements happen out of necessity.
Yes. Totally adequate. I would want something better for a meffed up assailant, but 90% of the time .22lr will do a fine job.
No it won't and your comment should be deleted so as not to encourage others .
"90% of the time .22lr will do a fine job" -- Statistics from the actual confrontations (not made up for comments on CZcams) show that no, will NOT do a fine job.
@@mountainhobo oh. Okay. Maybe I was wrong.
@@joshuagibson2520 Nobody can question the lethality of the 22lr it has killed more than all others combined ,lots of suicide with 22 lr and a cns hit could stop a attack fast and it is better than nothing ,also just brandishing stops most criminals.
@@mountainhobo stand in front a .22 and take just 5 to the chest. i dare you.
Very good, interesting and informative video. I love shooting .22's (mostly in rifles), but if my life is on the line, I'll take the .38 for sure. Full disclosure, I do carry a small 9mm. Thanks, well done video. Take care.
Thanks a lot! Take care.
If someone complains tell them to do their own test!
Thanks Sam…….22 is not the best option for self defense but if it is all you can handle especially for home defense get a 22 semi auto rifle. 22lr is much more effective out of a rifle and a good semi auto rifle can hold a lot of rounds. My marlin model 60 can hold 18 rounds. There is very few 22lr rounds marketed for self defense most are for squirrels and rabbits and other pest so if you must use 22lr use good ammo.
Another excellent demonstration. There's a term for a person who gets emotionally upset when presented with empirical evidence that a cherished notion is not correct: child.
You keep right on doing what you're doing, sir. The vast majority of us enjoy and appreciate it.
Thanks. While I cannot say whether I proved anything or not, I presented my evidence the best I could along with my opinion about that evidence.
Hi Sam, I think the .22 is more a rancher's round or a survival round, good for pest control, very accurate, won't disintegrate small game, good for sports, it has a lot of virtues. Maybe it can be pressed in the defensive role if needed but ... I'd rather not do it, if possible.
I have a Keltec P17. Nobody wants to get shot 16 time with .22. And Incase his family filing multimillions lawsuit, they won’t get that much because he is only shot 16 times with .22z
@@Jeremyho439 indeed, not even once
I think of the 22lr handgun as a remote controlled ice pick. Good video. Punch looks good.
Thank you, Sam. When I carry 38 Special I load with premium +P rounds and carry two reloading strips.
Sam is correct about the 22’s effectiveness. It’s certainly lethal but does lack a telling impact. Greg Ellifritz conducted his own study on handgun effectiveness. Search for “An alternate look at handgun stopping power”. One data point of interest is the failure rate to stop an attacker regardless of how many rounds are fired. Typical CF calibers will fail at about 9-13%. The 22 fails at a rate of 31%. That’s a big difference. It’s impossible to know the numbers but certainly a conscious decision to quit the fight plays into “stopping power” percentages. This is where the failure rate comes into play and reveals the difference between the 22 and most centerfire calibers.
That being said, use the caliber that best suits your needs and practice with utter competence being your goal. YOUR capabilities are far more important than that of your tools.
So a bigger bullet works better then a tiny bullet. Never would have guessed that.
That is why Dirty Harry carried a44 magnum.
I wonder how many of the haters would volunteer to stand 7 yards and let someone put a single round of 22 lr in their chest?None would be my guess. A hole in the heart is going to be deadly with any caliber unless medical treatment and luck is just around the corner. Ignore those morons and know that you've got Real fans that loves your videos and have a lot of respect for you.
Haters gonna hate, keep up the good work! My only thought is the unavailability of .38 ammo.
For now my 365 providing cover fire for my 357 snubby,but my p22 Walther with a laser always wins at the range,great show
I love my p22. I’d carry it
I sometimes carry my Ruger LCP while doing yard work, walking the pooch, getting the mail, etc.
I keep it loaded with Aguila Hi-vel 40-grain solids. I believe in Ely priming Btw.
Another great ammo test on a fine Friday in October. Thanks Sam...you rock.
Thank you. I will have to try those
As usual great stuff. As i get older the 22lr for carry has become a setious comsideration. I do carry either a lcr or lcpii woth wingman plus for mag base plate while wear gym shorts. A heavier gun would literally pull them down to my knees. Bothe the lcr and lcp carry well in that situation . I want the ability to poke as many holes as i can in a short period of time accurately. There is no way one can even consider a 22lr betterthan a 38 or 9mm for tissue damage or cavitation but they will punch holes. I do feel like 8 to 15 holes in a chest, lungs or heart will make the threat take notice. Will single shot of a 38 or 9mm stop a threat in its tracks? Probably not you still have to wait for the hydraulic effect to fo its job. So 8 to 15 small holes may be comparable to several 38 or 9mm wounds regarding hydraulics. No handgun is a majic resolution to a threat situation and various weapons have their niche uses. We are talking about a civilian defense situation where one is trying to keep a threat a safe distance. This argument will continue but its all relative. One has to make informed decisions regarding their own dress , situation, abilities and skill.
If i could carry a shotgun everywhere i would as i know a slug would definately make a threat stop in its tracks but its not practical. Carrying a 9mm or 38 revolver in gym shorts isnt either. Heck watching videos from actuve self protection demonstrates that a threat being shot via handgun caliber doesnt always stop the threat. That is of course unless the threat has been hit in head or spine. We could go on and on with examples . Again its up to the individual to make their own choice. Again always great info. Oh yeah the 22lr bouncing and or tumbling thing really hasnt been my experience.
Got my daughter the Ruger because she doesn't handle recoil well, like at all. Trust me I've tried but it's just a mental thing with her. But anywho, with the pocket pistol and some range time, I've gotten her to where she has the confidence to use it. We've even worked our way up to where she can dump the mag putting em all center mass. Might not sound like a big deal to someone like me who shoots 45 and 357, but for her, who's so averse to recoil, it's a monumental achievement and I feel MUCH BETTER knowing that she's carrying at least SOMETHING!
It beats a sharp stick but then again so does everything else. Years ago I knew 2 gentlemen that were romantically involved with the same woman. She would go back and forth between the two for many years. Eventually it came to a head and one guy pulled out a 22 snubbie and shot the other once in the chest. The other guy pulled out a G19 and proceeded to empty the entire magazine into the other guy, killing him on the spot. Police come and secure the scene and some time after that, the ambulance gets there, and after the other guy walked over was talking with the medics, suddenly collapses and dies. Turns out both of them had large life insurance policies with her as the benefactor in addition to both of them leaving her their estates. Of course everyone that knew them could tell she was a black widow but there was never any evidence to charge her and she made out like a bandit with millions. Moral of the story is a 22 is definitely lethal. It just stands a higher possibility of it not being immediately lethal.
Wild wild west!!
That 22 snub and G19 were obviously both used on the wrong person ...
Great work. I think it was a fair test. The .22's had similar penetration to your prefered .38 carry ammo, so that tells me they did exactly wharlt they were supposed to do. A .22 IS a bullet, and it CAN kill, but even with a heart shot, a 9mm can still take 30 seconds to drop an attacker (there's video evidence). A .22 will certainly take longer, and 30 seconds is already an eternity. .22 will absolutely do the job, but if you can use something more powerful, you should.
Well for some people it’s better to hit with a .22 than miss with a .38 that’s why they need to practice more but it’s better to have a .22 than nothing at all
Good test , all that matters in many instances is having a gun , any gun . In a close in gun fight the 22 will loose most of the time . Just carry a gun period people . 22-.44 it don't matter . Carry what you shoot well. I carry .22/.22 magnum, .38 and 9mm. The gun that's in my pocket the most consistently is my .22 magnum.
People always talk about the 22 has no recoil, that's true. But a 38 out of medium sized revolver is extremely mild, and much more powerful with 7 and 8 shot options
I would love to see a comparison on super light for caliber Federal punch 29 grain 22lr vs Aguilla 60 grain 22lr in a pistol for self defense, to compare even in a small cartridge, the old light and fast vs heavy and slow argument, I think it would be very interesting.
You cannot keep all the "Key Board Commandos/Experts happy". Some get their jollies writing their "expert" opinions anonymously. Most viewers will view your videos and be satisfied with "it is what it is". and whether they like them or not, be adult enough to not whine about your tests, but be glad they have some good videos to watch. So many video tests/reports start out with a mouth breather, sniffling "What's up guys" and followed by wobbly cameras, poor sound, spaced with way too many silent pauses and "uhhhs". Ignore them...
As always great review. I appreciate that you take the time to do these for us
Awesome GSam《☆》👍🍺🍕If 22LR was the only caliber available I would focus on putting as many rounds as possible into the badguy ie High capacity, speed & accuracy🖖😎☮
Thanks for the demonstration!
One of the largest Grizzly bears ever killed in Canada
was killed wit a .22 LR.
BUT I am not going to hunt Grizzly bears, or defend
myself with a .22 if I can do BETTER! ( ; )
Back in 2007, there was a story about a black bear (not as tough as a grizzly, but still a bear) who was killed by a piece of firewood. The story goes that a family was camping in a national forest and a bear decided to wander into camp and commandeer the family's cooler.
The family's 6-year-old son stupidly threw a shovel at the bear. The bear took umbrage to this and started to charge the boy. The father grabbed the closest thing he had available to him, which was a piece of firewood, and yeeted it at the bear, striking it in the head. The father initially thought that he had just knocked the bear unconscious, but it turns out that the blow was lethal.
And just like your anecdote with the grizzly, just because it worked once doesn't mean that a hunk of firewood is ideal defense against bears, nor should it be considered a preferred implement for hunting them.
I know that Punch will not eject reliably from either of my Bobcats, while Silvertip so far does cycle. The Bobcats won’t reliably ignite CCI Mini Mag primers, but S&W J&K frame revolvers will. I also know that recoil from any .22 round is minuscule compared to anything .380 and up, and a sufficient supply of .22LR to build skills is a whole lot cheaper than any centerfire cartridge from 25 round boxes to 1000 round cases. With that being taken in account, a .22 handgun that is capable of placing a handful of well placed shots rapidly under stress can be a useful defensive tool. A .22 wouldn’t be my primary choice right now, but might be someday. It’s been said for years and I’ll parrot it again, a .22 is both a gun for the expert and novice alike. I wonder what the production numbers are for those Heritage Roughriders because it looks like they’ve been selling the daylights out of them. They might become a source of shooting data and real world .22 LR performance at some point or another.
Good work as always sir. While I would not want to get shot with a .22lr, where possible, I would certainly choose a .38special over .22lr to carry for self defense.
Im sorry you had to deal with unruly comments. People can get really defensive about their gun and ammo choices and want to be confirmed on their choices and biases. Me included.
But i do want to mention one thing. The data points you referenced, there’s a guy by the name of Greg elefits (idk how to spell his last name) D he did a whole story on 1,800 shootings with all ties of ammo.
King story short is; 22lr has a 60% one stop shot rate and a 33.333~ % non-one stop shot rate.
Compared to center fire calibers, they eek out at 65% one stop shot rate. However their non-one stop shot rate is barely in the 10%
Caliber size is like penis size ...
Is it big enough ???
And as they say, its HOW YOU USE IT.
Dude goes to the range with a 9mm or 45 and cant hit the 12 x 14 target 20 ft out for nothing and cant hold the recoil ....
Other dude comes in with his 22LR semi-auto and hits all 17 shots in a 3 inch group at 20 ft ...
interesting results ! Very informative Gun Sam!
I really don't enjoy people when they make hate comments. You test things, at the most equal playing field you possibly can. Like me you don't have a favorite you just like what works. And what is dependable, reliable and accessible
Thanks. Yeah I get weird comment too sometimes. Like "you suck learn how to shoot" because I miss like 2 of 10 rounds from a handgun from 50-75 yards, or miss entirely because it's hyper ammo. I stopped getting stupid trolling like 10 years ago where people would say "one word- fat" lol, I remember something so stupid like that. Now days it's more trolling about my shooting style than anything, and because I don't press both thumbs forward I do not know how to shoot...apparently
@@GunSam yeah I get it when you invite those same people to a contest they never show up. God Bless America long live the republic
I agree. .22LR will probably work, and maybe very quickly. But .38 Spl will more probably work and more probably faster and better.
Taking a ice pick and hammering into a threat, we’ll say hello to the world of .22 caliber rounds.
This is a great video, for people that either cannot afford a bigger gun and ammo. As well as the elderly who both cannot afford a bigger gu n and ammo. Including handling the recoil.
Hi. I don't have a gun, or even permission for owning a gun - yes we must have something stupid like this here. But i like your videos. Greetings from small town in south Poland. Cheers.
I have a .38 special 6 shooter 4" barrel and use the Critical defence. I also have a 2' barrel semi auto 10 shooter .22 and a Diamondback Sidekick 4.5" barrel 9 shooter. I use standard velocity 40 grain in the Semi auto and Federal Punch in my sidekick. I've never had to shoot anyone with either pistol and hope I never do but Always Ready is my motto.
I enjoy your videos. I've seen many people talk about and test various 22lr. Most would say 22 rimfire just isn't reliable enough. However nobody tests anything but box store and bulk crap. I suggest testing the more expensive , much higher manufacturing standards , target ammunition. SK 40 grn LFN , ELEY 40 grn LRN , ect.
Love your channel Sam. .22 is looking a distant second to .38 Special
yep
I like 6our videos, commonly used guns and ammo ,keep up the good job
Thanks!
I appreciate that you did a follow up video. I carry both. I carried a .22 revolver for a long time before I got a S&W 642. That has become my main carry in no small part to your work reviewing the cartridge. I do still like .22, and feel that with these defensive loads reaching minimum penetration out of most two inch barrels they can certainly be effective with the right shot placement. Question is how’s your aim going to be in the heat of the moment?
it's hard to know how well someone's aim will be in the moment as a lot of factors come into play. One person might be spot on, the other not so much. A trained person will lose some accuracy but they can still land at least half those shots. Untrained, well then you might miss altogether. And my definition of trained, is that a person practices a lot regardless of formal training. There's a lot of questions that are hard to answer, but at least with .38 Special if you do make a good shot, it's going to work. People often say shot placement is everything, but I disagree. Yes with adequate calibers it's everything, but with calibers that will either bounce off a skull on a glancing shot, not penetrate deep enough to hit vitals, or even hit vitals but not cause enough damage to stop the threat, I will say shot placement is NOT everything. The old rule that .380 ACP and up is adequate is probably spot on. I have done enough testing in my life to know that you don't start getting consistent penetration from momentum until you start getting around 100 grains in bullet weight whether it be a .32 Long, or a bigger 95 gr .380 ball round and so on. I am not confident in sub 100 gr +/- bullets of any caliber from what I have seen. The 'stopping power' charts line up exactly what I have seen and with bullet weights below 100 gr of any caliber with maybe an exception to solid copper pushed super fast.
Many years ago I bought a Beretta .22 M-21A. I took it out and practiced "panic firing" 3-shot bursts at a head silhouette target at 20 feet or less. The usual result was one hit, one on the paper somewhere and one lost in the ozone. Later I was at a famous soldier/lawman/gun writer's ranch practicing timed double taps on a full-sized silhouette at 7 yards. Goal was two critical hits in 2 seconds or less. I realized everyone in our party but our host was capable of _missing the full-sized target completely_ at that distance. This was many years ago and training levels were lower, but still.
So in answer to the question, how good is your aim going to be in the heat of the moment, the answer is, not very! So use the sights, practice as much as you can, and use the most powerful gun/cartridge combination you can handle.
I'd say Federal Punch is about the best for penetration (it's akin to a 22 cal SWC), but as with any 22lr bullet, it's not going to have that much evidential damage. It's just fractionally the size of an expanded .357 bullet.
Thanks for the work you put in Sam, and it's free for most all the viewers. I can't complain. I make recommendations around social media to come watch your videos for real world application-based testing and estimating. You demonstrate the things that are often missed from conventional testing. Short of buying pork pectorals, a bag of oranges, some t-shirts, leather jacket.... your MDF and gel setup is what I'd call an application estimate that serves well enough.
I agree. I read an article from Shooting The Bull 410. He said the ballistics gel used in FBI tests simulates the density of muscle and bone (he emphasized the word "simulates"). I like to see something more solid placed in the test bullets path. Sam's MDF shows that many hollow points fail to expand. But the followup shot without the MDF, with denim, shows some bullets due expand. I don't know if the FBI protocol is meant to test expansion reliability but adding the MDF really looks to add benefit to bullet testing.
@@mikepond8898 Bones are tough and dense, and that has to be one consideration in performance. I was listening to Joseph Von Benedikt's podcast (The Big Game Hunting podcast) and he was talking about elk and other tough animals. He mentioned that internal organs (not the lungs) are actually far tougher than people realize, they are dense and have tough tissues in them, some organs are muscles after all.
Awesome breakdown!
ANGRY? That's it, now I have to go watch the first one... be back in a sec 😅
I can understand the argument, but with all due respect to the .22 fans, I would call this one case closed. Bigger, heavier bullet and thus more energy. Pure physics.
Your Punch vs. Stinger video ".22 LR For Self Defense? Federal Punch VS CCI Stinger" had good reviews for the Punch so I think it is still up for debate.
Our normal carry is either a .38 or a .22wmr...feel the same about both guns, they work...usually plenty for any problem, some days a ma deuce wouldn't be enough...
So the 22lr barkeep was more powerful than Beretta bobcat?? Thought revolvers were a little less powerful due to cylinder gap????
Lots deny a .22 but none of them will volunteer to be stabbed with an ice pick even though it wont go as deep as a 22---- why?
Because it's lethal the way eating a pound of coke is lethal, very lethal but not instant. Ice pick size holes in an attacker who doesn't even know he's been shot, can still kill you. Him laying down after the fact and dying, well that's not the point here. If you put ice pick size holes in an attacker who's bent on killing you, this will be the likely scenario. Personally, i'd rather blow a hole in his chest with a .357 Magnum so he falls over, whether he survives after being rushed to the hospital or not!
Nice video. Thanks for sharing it.
Here is my opinion:
Yes, I believe you can use a .22lr for self defense.
But I wouldn't recommend it.
JT
Just like the first video. The answer is yes, it is enough. However, a lot of tests go to show that it really is a bit of a last ditch self defense measure. There are plenty of dead people from .22's but even a lot of data that has been collected on shootings and recorded the caliber and averaged out number of rounds needed, .22 LR when used in a handgun was averaging 5-6 shots to stop a threat. There is some old but very good data out there of people using things like .22's and .25's eventually killing the assailant but not before they themselves were killed by them or etc.
I'd still feel confident armed with a .22 in a handgun over nothing at all and I'd much prefer a revolver if it had to be in a handgun. But this of course is one reason I like my .32's as much as I do. Still get low recoil, but a lot better performance.
Great information. Thanks.
Absolutely. Our plumber took one to the stomach and it tumbled and he’s a mess. It can ☠️ maniac shot him on a call.
It's hilarious how upset people get when presented with irrefutable proof. Would .22 be effective, yes probably so. Is it as effective as .38spl, no, certainly not out of a handgun. .22lr vs .25acp vs .32acp would be an interesting test, although kinda pointless based on how badly out of favor .25 and .32 have become.
"kinda pointless based on how badly out of favor .25 and .32 have become" - Yes, and they are more expensive these days than .38 Special.
Umm, .25acp and .32acp have not disappeared...the .32 revolver rounds are becoming more popular, especially. 32 h&r and .327 magnum...not everyone needs, or desires, to blow the bad guy in half...we often carry .22wmr...at home, we do use heavier calibers...
Excellent vid Sam. BTW, you run a fine channel. Later for the trolls Bud. Internet commandos will not be there to save you. Respect
👍😊🎯 people 🤷♂️ some of us aren’t that bright and intelligent. Good testing .
Is there your video where you tested 22 LR vs 25 ACP pine boards penetration? I didn't manage to find it
In my testing clear gel presents significantly reduced damage than traditional ballistics gel. It is great for testing penetration but not for damage paths.
I haven't had any issues seeing damage paths. Might be different than organic gel, but when I hit it with something like .357 Magnum, I certainly see massive damage paths.
@@GunSam And the gel jumps off the table! LMAO
@@pauldunecat It's proof of impact.
@@Fudmottin it's proof of energy transfer. This channel is a dude in the woods not a ammo manufacturer doing a 10k round study on a cartridge performance. Though I would argue for more exploady targets, kinda miss the water jugs. :-)
@@pauldunecat Yeah, I really should look into this channel more.
Question. In your opinion, what would be the level of damage to tissue/organs if the muzzles of both pistols were placed against the skin of an assailant and then fired?
Case closed as far as I'm concerned. Can't believe it's even an argument.
People wanna belive in what they want to. Personally I won't carry nothing under 380 acp it's loaded with leigh high cavatators Philip screw driver heads.
Hum? I wonder how 5.7 x 28 would compare to 38 special?
Wish you could have used some , CCI mini mags too , I bet they would have been good in this test , Thanks for the info and great videos , People underestimate the power of the .22 lr the Manufacturers don't call it , Long Rifle for no reason ! .22 Short , .22 Long and .22 Long Rifle cartridges have been are for a minute , Miss the Arcades as a child !
Great video, I love the 22lr but not for self defense.
oh no .. LOL
Bet you wont stand in front of one ....
It's not good. It's not great! It's just good enough.
Let us all be perfectly honest. In a worst-case self-defense scenario, what would work best? Harsh language, anti-gun political innuendo, or a .22LR revolver or semi auto pistol launching lead, round nose, standard velocity ammo fired into center mass? I would strongly suspect, based on experience as a career LEO, that the .22LR would be the superior choice in such a situation.
Should I keep the 4"barrel on my Charter Arms Pitbull 45acp or put on the spare 2" barrel?
I can't answer that for you. I didn't know such a barrel conversion existed. For .45 ACP it's a pretty low pressured round. Barrel length doesn't increase velocity as significantly as other calibers. Sub 100 FPS velocity loss with 230 gr ammo going from a 4" to 2" revolver barrel is my best guess based on 5" to 3" semi auto velocity numbers.
.32 is an excellent compromise.
Most civilian encounters can be resolved by simply having and not even using a gun.
.38 Spl or .22 Lr regardless of caliber give um plenty and aim for the vitals and the head, and don’t stop until they do. Problem solved.
With the silvertip you need a 3.5 or 4 inch semi auto
Sam, I have 4 inch barrel 357 Magnums. I am looking to get some 38 Special ammo as an option for self defense. I can get good prices on Remington HTP 38 Special. Do you have a preference between their 110 and 125 grain loads for 38 Special?
I can't say that there is a significant difference. Personally I would use the 125 gr because the added momentum could be useful. I usually use 110 gr for smaller guns to reduce the recoil some. The 110 gr in the HTP won't expand better than the 125 gr so I just go for momentum.
@@GunSam Thanks, Sam!! That is kind of what I was thinking also. I just bought 100 rounds of 110 grain the other day when I saw them available for $11.99 a box. And I just saw the HTP 125 grain available online for 54 cents a round. I am going to get a few hundred. Looks like prices are starting to drop a little. Love your channel and all the great advice. Thanks again!
All cartridges are compromises. I love 125 grain.357 magnum out of my 4 inch Smith and Wesson 581. I can't stick it in my pocket. I love my polymer Kahr P40. My arthritic shoulders don't.
I do see a time I might carry a .22lr during convenience.
When practicing/training,Practice shot placement, a pistol is not a shotgun. We had a former local slaughter house that only used 22 shorts to kill the animals for processing. If a 22short can take down a 1000-1500lb animal for processing then a 22lr can stop someone with intent
Did anybody witness somebody being shot by a .22lr and just ignored it?
Looks like I will be looking for Winchester silver tips
With what I've read or saw online they say that with small caliber handguns you should go for the head shot. What's your take on this?
That's probably true for what someone 'should' do with a .22 or small caliber handgun when trying to stop a threat, but the thing is this goes against all normal training of shoot center mass to stop the threat. An average person including a jury would know a head shot is more likely to be lethal than a body shot, so immediately going for a head shot seems not only risky legally, but also it's a small target. You get just one witness that says the 'bad guy' with the knife was 45 feet away when you head shot him -when he was in reality 10 feet away, now you "had time to premeditate and aim to kill him'. Obviously if the 'bad guy' had a gun it's a clean shoot, but still that's a small target. I don't really have a good answer for that hypothetical question as about every option is risky when carrying a small caliber handgun.
Question: .38 +P 110gr Hornady 9mm +P 115gr Hornady. Smaller case of the 9mm gets more velocity than the large case .38cal, why would that be? I use both.
38 special was developed as a black powder round 9mm was developed with smokeless powder (less volume more pressure for the smokeless). When you fill the 38spl case with smokeless it is called a 357 magnum. Make the cases longer so they don’t fit in a 38 special revolver.
@@randallupton3622 But the modern .38 is smokeless.
@@joesheetstheragman7737 yes modern 38 Special is smokeless. It went smokeless in the early 1900s. But because it was developed in the era of black powder it kept the longer case. The longer case was to keep the Special cartridge out of the cylinders of the different predecessors (38 short & long Colt and 38 S&W short & long same cartridges both companies wanted their name on the cartridge). 38 special was a more powerful cartridge that would have over pressured the older guns. There is enough case capacity to make a 357 magnum load in a 38 Special case. They went longer for the 357 for the same reason to protect the 38 revolvers from over pressure. For a time before the 357 became a factory load there was the 38/44 load. It was essentially a 357 in a 38 Special case it was meant to only be fired in revolvers chambered for 38/44 think Smith&Wesson N frame. So more info than you asked for but so it goes. Do a search on the 38 Special lot of history there.
How would 148 Gr. solid wadcutters on 5 Gr. of Accurate No. 5 in 38 Special plus-p perform (843 ft/sec)? I saw you do this with a hollow base in a 357 Magnum but this is a Hodgedon load for a 38 Special revolver. Great channel, always interesting.
Excellent
Fun stuff, thanks...
A .22 rifle really isn't a small game stopper. If the critter ain't shot in the head or spine, it WILL run off.
I used to have better luck with air guns. I used to shoot a lot of squirrels and the .22 LR would pass through, sometimes they ran off. The .177 air gun pellet at 1,000 FPS did better. Pellets rarely passed through and for whatever reason it always dropped them dead instantly. I didn't even think to mention this, but I used to shoot raccoons on the farm I grew up on with .22's all the time. Body shots rarely stopped them, they run off and you got to chase them and shoot them in the head. Anyways, as an adult I shot one with a Critical Defense .38+P and it was much different. One body shot and it was dead, didn't even kick.
@@GunSam Exactly my experience .
Armadillos are another that comes to mind..
If you're old and/or infirm and it's all you can handle? Then it's all you can handle and it's better than bumping them w/ your electric wheelchair. But seriously, try at least to work your way up to .32acp [which has a long history of punching above its weight, hard tho' that may be to believe.] But the first rule of gunfighting always applies...
True, there’s no comparison, but you’d have to be out of your mind to think getting hit between the eyes with that .22 wouldnt stop MOST attacks. I don’t think anyone ever said .22 lr was better than center fired cartridges.
"you’d have to be out of your mind to think getting hit between the eyes with that .22 wouldnt stop MOST attacks" - Are you planning on asking the attacker to wait while you're aiming?
people all the time say online 22lr is better than any centerfire cartidge because they are "so accurate" with it and it has so little recoil.