Your teaching skills were fine by me, I've watched a few vids on this subject and come away confused but not yours as I understood it ok - many thanks as I am in the process of rebuilding my 1275 GT engine at the moment.
Great video that brings back a lot of memories. Many years ago I did the spannering for a mate that raced an MG Midget with a 1275 "A" series engine.with a 649 camshaft and other tweaks that are lost in the mists of time. He eventually sold the car to a guy in Belgium and bought a Formula Ford instead. You did a great job explaining how to set TDC and cam timing with a dial indicator. Thanks.
During the episode you showed several views of the head. As an observation the rockers look miles away from being central on the valves. Years of experience and slightly OCD mentally has proven this is an absolutely critical area to focus on. Many builder are guilty of slapping heads together thinking valve guide tolerances and face's are all that are necessary. Your views are appreciated.
I use 3 gauges in this process, one in the spark plug hole. I also have a jig with one gauge fixed on the intake bucket and one on the exhaust bucket. Then I do as you do, I measure at a certain angle before and after TDC and spilt the difference. Works well, I run around 112 degree on intake and exhaust for as little overlap as possible in turbocharged applications. For all out racing I would go with 114 degree on both cams. Running turbo kits produced by MCXpress in Sweden, I used to double the output of a 150 HP snowmobile (4 stroke Yamaha engines) to 290+ HP. With some additional tune and the cam degreeing I would make 30+ more HP for around 320-325 HP on a 1000cc DOHC Yamaha 4 cylinder engine. My current snowmobile puts out about 315 HP :-) You are spot on, and thank you for your videos, they are great to follow.
The only thing you forgot is to always crank the engine in it's natural direction for anything BTDC to take into account bearing play, chain etc Go all the way around :-) Perfect!
Instructive and timely in the process of doing a up my one owner 1980 Mini 1000HL, 998 engine. Only doing the same with offset woodruff keys to optimise the cam timing as the budget don't allow such luxurious upgrades!!!😩
just remember were not all mechanics and this is fascinating to us that don't know.....so in my opinion your doing right teaching .....simplicity works for me.......thank you
I have always used a positive piston stop set before piston top travel, set zero on the degree wheel then turned the engine reverse direction to the stop and then split the difference on the degree wheel.
Back in the olden days, I was having A Mini block rebored oversize. The owner of the relatively new machine shop called me to get piston rings to so he could accurately bore the engine. I said don"t do anything til I get there. My block and I proceeded to another shop.
Hi lee yeah I was with you all the way, I use to do the kent x-flow and they use to have 10deg dwell 5deg each side and I use to fit the kent cams, bcf3, but going back 30 or 40 years ago I cannot remember the btdc & atdc measurements now but was they fast even with the oem webber 32/34 dtfm. ho and the full janspeed manifold and exhaust system "put it like this, the speedo went up to 115 mph and i was off the end the needle was hitting the peg, I prolly doing about 117mpg for a Cortina mk 2 1600 gt 1969 with the wooden dash and 4 clocks and speedo and tacho
HI, This is an adjustable slotted timing sprocket not a "Vernier" adjustable sprocket . A vernier sprocket would have a centre boss with x number of radial holes the cam boss would have one hole difference to the sprocket (x+1) when the cam and sprocket are timed only one of the radial holes will line upon both parts. a washer with a dowel attached is fitted to the lined up hole and a retaining nut holds it in place.. A stepped flat piece of steel bolted across the cylinder bore that blocks the piston approx 1/4 in. before TDC is the best way to set up the degree disc in my opinion
Love watching all the work you have done I was a mechanic I never did this for setting valves I used to work on trucks mainly Mac trucks Is it a bit over kill ?
Great explanation and I wish the mechanic that set my pinto up new how to do it I had a pinto built many years ago with full group one head and a modified cam Engine ran for a year no problem until a super rally driver / mechanic said have you ever timed it in proper Me being a young guy said no and he started to tell me it needed done He charged me a fortune and spent hours doing it Well after his work the car only got 4 miles before it chewed all the lobes of the cam and went rattle rattle He Blamed the cam saying it was to high a lift My answer was it was ok for the last year The total pillock was just a blow hard and turns out he has knackered many a engine since
Couple of observations.. The indicator deal is fine but you are making it way more complicated than it needs to be, a rigid piston stop is faster and zero guess work, also we degree right off the pushrod, no head needed, ever, roll the cam to max lift, zero the ind, roll clockwise. 02" note the wheel reading, rotate counter clockwise more than .02" on the other side of zero so you can come back to .02" in a clockwise motion to ensure the chain is tight, stop at .02" note wheel, add the 2 wheel # together and divide by 2, this is the int centerline, 100% accurate every time., I do enjoy your videos!
Many years ago mate of mine landed me with his golf and all the parts to make the engine faster long story short I hadn't a clue how to set the adjustable valve timing wish CZcams had been around it was the first time doing it any how I must have got it right it went like a scalded rat after I had finished it lol 😀
I can imagine using a piston stop being quicker though may add lash,but seeing as the cam at full lift is full lift i can't see why you need to install the head to measure it,an old push rod or a dummy rod can be fitted with a washer welded on and a spring held by a holed plate on the top of the block to keep the surfaces together ,oil or assembly lube might cause stiction.
Coming soon to the channel. Warranty claim due to oil contamination with red paint. A pro would paint then face the head. Oil filter mounts full of paint. Rocket case full of paint. All ready to flake off and kill the engine. You also dont need to assemble the head to degree the cam,as you can just put a dial gauge on the pushrod, to find the max lift of the cam and the opening and closing degrees of the cam.
I built a twin turbo 24v 2.9 cosworth v6 a few years ago for a mate who had been shafted by an engine builder as the Pistons on that engine picked up on the dyno, I stripped it and the bores where like banana's hand honed, loads wrong, uprated parts he paid for not in the engine, scrapped the block and started again, I had custom valves made by G&S valves as nothing was available off the shelf, then made adjustable cam pulleys...4 of the buggers. I must of dry built that engine 6 times to work out the valve timing and piston to valve clearance available, time consuming but has to be done and can appreciate the time and effort into setting them up.
@Chris Clarke no stock crank, If I remember correctly it was 94mm pistons, the FBE N/A 300bhp version was a belter though, this turbo engine made 500bhp at low boost, arias coated pistons and wire rung, it was fitted in 2wd mk1 sierra, Turbos flowed enough for 750 but he wanted a reliable engine, so was never pushed as he was happy. there was a guy who ran 900bhp before finally snapping a crank! ...mad
@@Theclarksonmtb they were a good motor, not appreciated enough, in the day they were a rover v8 rival, if not better. We put several into capris with custom management and slide throttle they were brilliant reliable road motor. Their potential was never realised, when considering the block was basically a 2.9 cologne with lifter bores not machined.
Why no solid rocker spacers to stop rocker walk? A positive stop finds tdc more accurately. All that said when we needed a bit more low down torque for the customer on race day giving the exhausts a few more thou on the valve clearance would let it hold power stroke a little longer, giving a bit more punch out of corners (only possible on push rod motors).
@@pauljeffries that makes for a nice A series motor. Our bread and butter used to be ford motors, crossflows, essex v6 and v4 cologne v6 and cosworth 2.0 and 2.9.
You would find precise TDC more easily if you simply used a piston stop either through the spark plug hole or attached to the top of the block and working directly on the piston crown!
From someone who is an educator - absolutely nothing wrong with your explanation. Sincere question: any reason why you use imperial measurement system- is it because this engine would have been built at a time when that was the norm or is it something else? I trained and served my time a long time ago (30 years almost, but not the UK) and even then SI units were the norm. It seems like there are still some hangovers of imperial measurement in some small pockets of industry perhaps? I can use both systems but imperial unit of measurement just doesn't seem to make much sense when standardisation is based on SI units... Thanks for the videos.
Because it's England and we still use Imperial. The lift measurements are irrelevant though, it's all about finding points of rotation which is always degrees.
TDC centring should be checked much further down the bore, ie much more crank angle each side. Get away from the TDC area. People are commenting here about positive stops but in my book TDC should be found via indicator and rotating in the running direction only.
What you have just done is ok for a street boy racer application I guess. You are simply not accurate enough for high end race spec engines. You need to find the true crank TDC from measuring much lower down the stroke BTDC and after ATDC. Also, providing the cams are symmetrical , you should time the camshaft at about 50 thou of lift on each ramp. Full lift position is not so critical. I assume that you have measured the accuracy of the cam profiles.
Agreed positive stop finds tdc more accurately. Checking cam profile is a must especially when base circle been ground for more lift. A cam with polydyne correction can be a pig to time in. I am surprised with all the work being put into that motor that it still using springs for rocker spacers rather than solid spacers to stop rocker walk.
@@chrisclarke6344 a lot of people who do modern engines simply don't know how to tune an A series engine for power, they aren't as easy as some people assume.
@@pauljeffries nope its a dying art, mention a LCB exhaust and they have no clue. We also used to dispense with stem seals on race motors and machine top of guides to let a little oil down stem, never had a guide failure doing that.
@@chrisclarke6344 I've recently purchased a 3 into 1 manifold for mine, I feel that the stage 2 LCB that I have is restricting the engine, I'll see what happens on the dyno once its fitted.
@@pauljeffries will be interesting to find out, we found an LCB worked well with the siamesed port ground to a finer profile. One thing that gave a bit more power was to have the bottom of the header flush with port, and the top above the port, this appeared to stop gas 'rollback' into the port. Another thing we could never get over to people was a shiny smooth inlet port caused fuel drop out where a rougher one didnt.
Nice one Lee 👍 not many fully appreciate the amount of work that goes in to get the best out of an engine.
Keep up the good work.
Your teaching skills were fine by me, I've watched a few vids on this subject and come away confused but not yours as I understood it ok - many thanks as I am in the process of rebuilding my 1275 GT engine at the moment.
Great video that brings back a lot of memories. Many years ago I did the spannering for a mate that raced an MG Midget with a 1275 "A" series engine.with a 649 camshaft and other tweaks that are lost in the mists of time. He eventually sold the car to a guy in Belgium and bought a Formula Ford instead. You did a great job explaining how to set TDC and cam timing with a dial indicator. Thanks.
During the episode you showed several views of the head.
As an observation the rockers look miles away from being central on the valves.
Years of experience and slightly OCD mentally has proven this is an absolutely critical area to focus on. Many builder are guilty of slapping heads together thinking valve guide tolerances and face's are all that are necessary.
Your views are appreciated.
As well as solid spacers not those springs, stops rocker walk, and side swiping valve stem.
Honestly, think how you described the process was bang on. I have a basic understanding of it to start but was able to follow no problem. Great vid.
As a teacher, can I say well done, enjoyed it….many thanks..
I use 3 gauges in this process, one in the spark plug hole. I also have a jig with one gauge fixed on the intake bucket and one on the exhaust bucket. Then I do as you do, I measure at a certain angle before and after TDC and spilt the difference. Works well, I run around 112 degree on intake and exhaust for as little overlap as possible in turbocharged applications. For all out racing I would go with 114 degree on both cams. Running turbo kits produced by MCXpress in Sweden, I used to double the output of a 150 HP snowmobile (4 stroke Yamaha engines) to 290+ HP. With some additional tune and the cam degreeing I would make 30+ more HP for around 320-325 HP on a 1000cc DOHC Yamaha 4 cylinder engine. My current snowmobile puts out about 315 HP :-) You are spot on, and thank you for your videos, they are great to follow.
The only thing you forgot is to always crank the engine in it's natural direction for anything BTDC to take into account bearing play, chain etc Go all the way around :-) Perfect!
Instructive and timely in the process of doing a up my one owner 1980 Mini 1000HL, 998 engine. Only doing the same with offset woodruff keys to optimise the cam timing as the budget don't allow such luxurious upgrades!!!😩
just remember were not all mechanics and this is fascinating to us that don't know.....so in my opinion your doing right teaching .....simplicity works for me.......thank you
Personally I like to use a positive stop on the piston to find true tdc a bit easier.
I was thinking the same ... good explanation, but there is an easier way to find tdc :)
Very good and informative video, the point is clearly made....keep up the good work
I have always used a positive piston stop set before piston top travel, set zero on the degree wheel then turned the engine reverse direction to the stop and then split the difference on the degree wheel.
The A series camshaft should be set up on number 1 inlet, you did it on the exhaust.
Very excellent explanation!
Great explanation of how to setup the engine so it can suck more air and fuel in to get the best
Pro-Formance from it
Back in the olden days, I was having A Mini block rebored oversize. The owner of the relatively new machine shop called me to get piston rings to so he could accurately bore the engine. I said don"t do anything til I get there. My block and I proceeded to another shop.
Hi lee yeah I was with you all the way, I use to do the kent x-flow and they use to have 10deg dwell 5deg each side and I use to fit the kent cams, bcf3, but going back 30 or 40 years ago I cannot remember the btdc & atdc measurements now but was they fast even with the oem webber 32/34 dtfm. ho and the full janspeed manifold and exhaust system "put it like this, the speedo went up to 115 mph and i was off the end the needle was hitting the peg, I prolly doing about 117mpg for a Cortina mk 2 1600 gt 1969 with the wooden dash and 4 clocks and speedo and tacho
Good video and don’t worry I for one understand perfectly, take’s me back to my youth 👍😀
HI, This is an adjustable slotted timing sprocket not a "Vernier" adjustable sprocket . A vernier sprocket would have a centre boss with x number of radial holes the cam boss would have one hole difference to the sprocket (x+1) when the cam and sprocket are timed only one of the radial holes will line upon both parts. a washer with a dowel attached is fitted to the lined up hole and a retaining nut holds it in place.. A stepped flat piece of steel bolted across the cylinder bore that blocks the piston approx 1/4 in. before TDC is the best way to set up the degree disc in my opinion
Thats one of those task's that easier to do than explain!
Great video. Well explained.
Love watching all the work you have done I was a mechanic I never did this for setting valves I used to work on trucks mainly Mac trucks
Is it a bit over kill ?
excellent vid
Great explanation and I wish the mechanic that set my pinto up new how to do it
I had a pinto built many years ago with full group one head and a modified cam
Engine ran for a year no problem until a super rally driver / mechanic said have you ever timed it in proper
Me being a young guy said no and he started to tell me it needed done
He charged me a fortune and spent hours doing it
Well after his work the car only got 4 miles before it chewed all the lobes of the cam and went rattle rattle
He Blamed the cam saying it was to high a lift
My answer was it was ok for the last year
The total pillock was just a blow hard and turns out he has knackered many a engine since
Couple of observations..
The indicator deal is fine but you are making it way more complicated than it needs to be, a rigid piston stop is faster and zero guess work, also we degree right off the pushrod, no head needed, ever, roll the cam to max lift, zero the ind, roll clockwise. 02" note the wheel reading, rotate counter clockwise more than .02" on the other side of zero so you can come back to .02" in a clockwise motion to ensure the chain is tight, stop at .02" note wheel, add the 2 wheel # together and divide by 2, this is the int centerline, 100% accurate every time., I do enjoy your videos!
Very interesting!
Awesome , Thanks
nice! Thank you!
Great video I think 🤔👏👏👏
Many years ago mate of mine landed me with his golf and all the parts to make the engine faster long story short I hadn't a clue how to set the adjustable valve timing wish CZcams had been around it was the first time doing it any how I must have got it right it went like a scalded rat after I had finished it lol 😀
Mini engine looks sweet teaching skills not too bad either 😀👍
I can imagine using a piston stop being quicker though may add lash,but seeing as the cam at full lift is full lift i can't see why you need to install the head to measure it,an old push rod or a dummy rod can be fitted with a washer welded on and a spring held by a holed plate on the top of the block to keep the surfaces together ,oil or assembly lube might cause stiction.
Coming soon to the channel. Warranty claim due to oil contamination with red paint.
A pro would paint then face the head. Oil filter mounts full of paint. Rocket case full of paint. All ready to flake off and kill the engine.
You also dont need to assemble the head to degree the cam,as you can just put a dial gauge on the pushrod, to find the max lift of the cam and the opening and closing degrees of the cam.
My two stroke is out. Ill buy one.
I built a twin turbo 24v 2.9 cosworth v6 a few years ago for a mate who had been shafted by an engine builder as the Pistons on that engine picked up on the dyno, I stripped it and the bores where like banana's hand honed, loads wrong, uprated parts he paid for not in the engine, scrapped the block and started again, I had custom valves made by G&S valves as nothing was available off the shelf, then made adjustable cam pulleys...4 of the buggers. I must of dry built that engine 6 times to work out the valve timing and piston to valve clearance available, time consuming but has to be done and can appreciate the time and effort into setting them up.
Did you take block to +90 and stroke grind crank? You can then get a reliable 300 hp naturally aspirated motor, even more with a turbo.
@Chris Clarke no stock crank, If I remember correctly it was 94mm pistons, the FBE N/A 300bhp version was a belter though, this turbo engine made 500bhp at low boost, arias coated pistons and wire rung, it was fitted in 2wd mk1 sierra, Turbos flowed enough for 750 but he wanted a reliable engine, so was never pushed as he was happy. there was a guy who ran 900bhp before finally snapping a crank! ...mad
@@Theclarksonmtb they were a good motor, not appreciated enough, in the day they were a rover v8 rival, if not better. We put several into capris with custom management and slide throttle they were brilliant reliable road motor. Their potential was never realised, when considering the block was basically a 2.9 cologne with lifter bores not machined.
Yep I used a BOB block and crank which had no lifter bores, knew I guy who had a boa on Jenvey throttle bodies, the induction noise was satisfying
@@Theclarksonmtb the BOEs were a good starting point to, but being a special race version they were like hens teeth to find.
That Mini engine is lovely
Why no solid rocker spacers to stop rocker walk? A positive stop finds tdc more accurately. All that said when we needed a bit more low down torque for the customer on race day giving the exhausts a few more thou on the valve clearance would let it hold power stroke a little longer, giving a bit more punch out of corners (only possible on push rod motors).
I run my A series 1380 with 20 thou valve clearances, that's with a 649 scatter camshaft......that's using MED 1.3 ratio roller tipped rockers.
@@pauljeffries that makes for a nice A series motor. Our bread and butter used to be ford motors, crossflows, essex v6 and v4 cologne v6 and cosworth 2.0 and 2.9.
Should have put a nice high lift roller rocker in at the same time. 😉
What is your dial indicator and magnetic stand? Is both of them the cheap Chinese ones at about £25 and do you think its ok.
Why dont you do a vid on the cosworth engine, and how to measure the lift, thanks really enjoy the vids im 70 and a retired engineer
What engine paint do you use on your engines
Well I learnt something .
Nice one, I imagine it's close to impossible to do without the crank gauge. Are you fitting uprated push rods?
in no no
You would find precise TDC more easily if you simply used a piston stop either through the spark plug hole or attached to the top of the block and working directly on the piston crown!
Thatwastoo much for me.
What do i do in the case of a road engine where i don't need all this coplications?...
From someone who is an educator - absolutely nothing wrong with your explanation. Sincere question: any reason why you use imperial measurement system- is it because this engine would have been built at a time when that was the norm or is it something else? I trained and served my time a long time ago (30 years almost, but not the UK) and even then SI units were the norm. It seems like there are still some hangovers of imperial measurement in some small pockets of industry perhaps? I can use both systems but imperial unit of measurement just doesn't seem to make much sense when standardisation is based on SI units... Thanks for the videos.
Because it's England and we still use Imperial. The lift measurements are irrelevant though, it's all about finding points of rotation which is always degrees.
You need to use a gauge on the push rods
TDC centring should be checked much further down the bore, ie much more crank angle each side. Get away from the TDC area.
People are commenting here about positive stops but in my book TDC should be found via indicator and rotating in the running direction only.
Bit long winded Bridge and bump stop more accurate
I’m not an engineer, but I could give that a good go having watched your video……….. I’ve had worse teachers so don’t beat yourself up about that. 👍🏽
Never did i ever do this .....tdc... counter clockwise to 50' then counter clockwise to 50'.... 1/2 is tdc simple
Yeeharr
Good explanation I think, you’d need a bit of general timing on engines knowledge I think first to truly understand what you mean but good effort 👍.
A lot of setting up work. Not just about fitting a different camshaft. More about getting the most out of it.
BLOODY HELL!!!!!
These are the time sponges that the customer doesn’t see…………..
good enough explaination, buy a cheap tripod lol
The mini engine haven't changed much in 30 years
Cough. Positive stop. Cough
What you have just done is ok for a street boy racer application I guess. You are simply not accurate enough for high end race spec engines. You need to find the true crank TDC from measuring much lower down the stroke BTDC and after ATDC. Also, providing the cams are symmetrical , you should time the camshaft at about 50 thou of lift on each ramp. Full lift position is not so critical. I assume that you have measured the accuracy of the cam profiles.
Agreed positive stop finds tdc more accurately. Checking cam profile is a must especially when base circle been ground for more lift. A cam with polydyne correction can be a pig to time in. I am surprised with all the work being put into that motor that it still using springs for rocker spacers rather than solid spacers to stop rocker walk.
@@chrisclarke6344 a lot of people who do modern engines simply don't know how to tune an A series engine for power, they aren't as easy as some people assume.
@@pauljeffries nope its a dying art, mention a LCB exhaust and they have no clue. We also used to dispense with stem seals on race motors and machine top of guides to let a little oil down stem, never had a guide failure doing that.
@@chrisclarke6344 I've recently purchased a 3 into 1 manifold for mine, I feel that the stage 2 LCB that I have is restricting the engine, I'll see what happens on the dyno once its fitted.
@@pauljeffries will be interesting to find out, we found an LCB worked well with the siamesed port ground to a finer profile. One thing that gave a bit more power was to have the bottom of the header flush with port, and the top above the port, this appeared to stop gas 'rollback' into the port. Another thing we could never get over to people was a shiny smooth inlet port caused fuel drop out where a rougher one didnt.