Why is the Teutonic Order WEAK in EU4?
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- čas přidán 13. 12. 2021
- Why is Teutonic Order WEAK in EU4? In this video we discuss the Teutonic order. In EU4 origins 1.32 the Teutonic order are so weak but have you ever wondered why? Are you ever curious about the eu4 nations?
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next time I'd love to hear about the livonian order, I saw that Livonian, as a language, is going extinct today and I would love to see a little more history from the region, specially after visiting Riga
Truley. Especially as the games representation of the livonians is highly inaccurate. Luckily while livonian did go extinct in the 20th century, modern revitalization efforts seem to be have an effect. There are also some movements working to revitalize old prussian.
@@matthew1863 a bit related, but my own faith took up the name of the burned down old Prussian sacred grove, Romuva
It is extinct. Last native speaker died in 2013. The German monastic fucks went there to convert them, they didn't accept and then came crusades. iirc there were about 300 000 Livonians in Livonia at one point, but then they were brought to less than a hundred thousand by crusaders. The crusaders set up Riga and it quickly started growing, quickly outgrowing all native Livonian settlements, and then the Livonians started just, sort of dying out, they were denied their native land and were pushed to the coast of Courland, where they still lived with their declining population until it just, stopped growing.
I've been extremely interested in them for a long time, as I am in most Finno-Ugric peoples and it's incredibly sad how so many cultures and peoples have already been lost and basically forgotten.
@@dankaroor Its truley sad by the revitalization efforts seem to be fruitful, hopefully it becomes as successful as cornish revitalization efforts.
@@dankaroor Another thing to note is that they called the whole area that is now modern Latvia and Estonia, Livonia, after one specific tribe that was the first the Germans met there. Nowadays you're very likely to not even meet a single Livonian in Latvia.
8:02 - the order was never dissolved, it exists to this day. They only lost control over the land at this date.
The last Old Prussian speaker died in the XVIII century. In 1444, there were enough Old Prussians still alive that it wouldn't be wrong to have some provinces of this culture in EUIV. AFAIK, they were the majority in some regions of the country.
why would you write XVIII and not just 18th lol
@@dankaroor Why not?
@@dankaroor I think it's a thing you do in French, using Roman numerals for centuries, and apparently other Romance languages too.
@@Mimi.1001 Polish too!
@@Mimi.1001 It's a thing you do in any civilized language. So any language except murican...
I don’t think I’ve ever seen the Teutons do anything other than die in my admittedly short playtime of 750 hours.
It’s a 50% chance they take over Poland in my games.
Teutons are the only ones in my games that end up like everyone else’s gamss
@@disparatebroom7705 Does Byzantium kill the Ottomans in your games?
@@coatofarms4439 Yes, then Austria or France kills the ottomans, and then the mamluks have the greatest game ever and just conquer part of the ottomans as well.
Most games they just die to poland or if poland dies, just sits there. I did have a game where the teutons formed prussia and gobbled up 1/3 of germany, all of scandanavia and a good chunk of poland after I dismantled HRE as Italy. Only time ive seen actually scary AI prussia, had 3rd biggest army with discipline that wiped my weak little italians. Obviously never lost a war to them, but every war I had to pretty much do the roman/soviet strategy of raising entire new armies after each battle, losing a quarter million every war.
Funny how Brandenburg later got Prussia and the duke then became king in Prussia (not of prussia), because he wasn't allowed to get the kingdom rank inside the HRE. Then they changed the name to Brandenburg-Prussia and then to Prussia and voilà, the duke of formerly brandenburg was no longer just king in Prussia, but King of Prussia.
Also they were the first nation(?) to embrace protestantism, and used that with the Union of Lubin to break free from their vassallage of Lithuania
@@dark_fire_ice weren't they still a vassal of the commonwealth though?
@@ATemplarIGuess technically not, feudalism is likely the most complicated social system our species can come with.
They were vassals of Grand Duke of Lithuania, under a Catholic oath, and as all good protestants know; papist only tell lies. Seriously look up some of the propaganda of the Reformation, it will be hilarious or horrifying to you, depending on how one looks at our species
Historically, this makes sense for the orders to be weak. They had been fighting a losing war with the pagan Lithuanians for hundreds of years in a failed crusade with tons of uprisings from the native Prussian population.
By 1444, they were on their last leg and with Lithuania officially converting to Christianity a short while back and Poland now siding more with the Lithuanians
Also the assimilation only really began in the late 1500s as records in the 1400s showed that the native culture was quite still alive and there were many in contact with Lithuania requesting for assistance in their resistance. Of course most of these documents didn't really survive given the oppression the locals were put under and the fact that most of the population was peasantry who couldn't really stand up to the rich German merchant/noble class
Poland never liked the order so they benefited from it quite badly
Small nitpick, by 1444 Poland wasn’t “siding with Lithuania” the two were already fully cooperating against the order by 1444 and had previously already been together under the jagilleon dynasty and fought the order (battle of grunwald) and it was the Grand Duke of Lithuania who was crowned King of Poland (and as Poland was the more powerful nation Poland became the senior partner in the union)
But yeah you are right in general
Minor thing, Lithuania accepted Christianity and the Catholic faith in 1387, the Battle of Tannenberg in 1410 happened because the TO found it didn't have anyone left to rob or murder. The Teutonic invasions of Lithuania and Polish Catholic lands, were just German attempts at conquest and nothing to do with the faith.
The ethnic cleansings of the Prussians weren't very nice either, and most Prussians had left the TO lands for Silesia as well as other regions because of the brutality and the purge by the German knighthood. The people who were settled were ethic Germans and they were brought in to replace the people who were being displaced.
@@ericsaxon5736 good thing that the Pope or hre didn’t endorse them and send them men
@@ericsaxon5736 learning a different language over time isn't exactly "ethnic cleansing".
They really need a mission tree!
Just pick religious ideas and rat Russia. Mission trees are just a few permanent claims anywau
totally agree! looking at the mission trees added in the latest update, I forsee great potential for the teutons!
Maybe even a split tree? One towards forming Prussia, one to stay a holy order and retake jerusalem, one to integrate/take over the commonwealth?
@@flimpeenflarmpoon1353 but its satisfying to fulfill these missions
In general the whole Baltic region, Eastern Europe and Scandinavia need new stuff
@@lordpolish2727 Romuva needs to be added, another dying faith that to convert to would be great.
Being born in Gdańsk/Danzig, it’s great to see you do an in depth video about it. Now that I’m living half way across the world from homeland, it’s great to see the history of my birthplace be spoken about and explained, much appreciated!
its worth to add that lihtuania allied poland because teutons raid their northern land and want to anex zemaitja
It depends. Are ypu talking about early XIV century alliance or the Jogaila union
But Lithuania had been pagan and even after officially ceasing their heathen ways they had been providing pagan bands in the order’s territory with material support
If anyone is interested in delving deeper while playing EU4, the BBC did an episode on Baltic Crusaders for "In Our Time" (podcast it) as well as other good episodes on Poland-Lithuania (feat Norman Stone!), Mali and other historical issues/items. The Baltic... definitely an area ripe for an expansion pack and terrorising sword brothers, along with Scandi.
Honestly, the Teutons are pretty strong. Good military ideas and can join the HRE for protection from Poland. Just wait for the right opportunity and attack Poland with Austria/Bohemia/Muscovy/Hungary and then you are smooth sailing
And the Baltic Sea is a very rich and underrated trade node. Build a few ships and vassalise the Livonians, but take Riga, and snake your way to Lubeck. And the moment you hit admin tech 10 you become the undisputed strongest nation in the game, capable of wiping the floor with the Ottomans in the early 1500s
Lubeck is a great trade node, probably the 5th or 6th best in Europe behind the 3 end nodes and constantinople and sevilla
These are my fav vids from you. So nice to just listen and learn 😄
The Teutonic Order and the achievement Baltic Crusader was one the most fun campaigns I've played in the game. Would recommend playing this nation.
I did this already!
@@PKpanzerkrieger yea! It's a fairly interesting achievement if you do it as the Teutons. How was it for you
This was a really excellent video, Tom. More history please!
there's a really fun semi secret event for the teutonic order, after the prussian confed event fires, you can give an estate privilege to the burgers called concede to the prussian confederation, then between 1460 and 1500 there's a mean time to happen event that can fire where you're forced to concede all your power as the teutonic order to danzig, which effectively acts like a tag change decision, you can keep teutonic order ideas, and become a republic called danzig
For me the only "fun" factor of the Teutonic Order in EU4 is the fact that you can form Prussia. Also, the Teutonic Order still exists :P
Very good video, I would like for you to do Lithuania next do to them historically beating the Teutonic Order and just being a interesting nation.
“The teutonic knights where also invited to hungary to defend against the coomers”
Cumans
Admittedly I surprisingly enjoyed this type of video a lot and it made me subscribe, but. 1:27 in and I am wondering wether you will keep narrating the entire time with the very same cadence. :,D
thank you for making this, the teutonic order and the prussians are very interesting. I was playing eu4 today while wondering how did prussia even get germanized and when i looked up on google only cliche german unification things came up
What a great series, thanks
Early on in the EU4 development and I think especially before the switch to polish mission to just vassalize them the Teutons were much more likely to survive the game!
The Danzig event kills them all the time. The Teutons are a nice vassal for reconquest, though.
Danzig shouldn't control that much land at the start of rebellion, they only controlled Kulm historically
Yeah, before the Danzig event they stood a decent chance and the AI would sometimes defeat Poland
For those who like the background music in the video, it is "Die Eisenfaust am Lanzenschaft".
Nice vid bro
I really appreciate how the Teutonic order disaster is historically accurate, but then the results in game with the TO getting annexed completely before Protestantism can occur, making a Brandenburg into Prussia game much harder
I would love to hear Lithuanian part in this, because everyone forgets that at the time Poland and Lithuania wear very close ally’s and there were controlled by Lithuanian rulers.
Its cos after the battle of grunwald/tannenberg 1410 they never fully recovered and have been on the downgrade ever since
"Why is teutonic order so weak?"
Me: went ahead to form prussia and germany in roughly 200 years.
Though it was quite tough, having to fight hre again and again until i finally dismantled hre through religious war
Just ally electors and dismantle in first 50 years after second successful Poland Lithuania war u should be safe enough to do dismantle hre war
@@GAndreC yeah sure, i would have gone that route if austria did not go and select 7 electors, have spain as ally and 3 personal unions
Damn the kingdom come deliverance soundtrack at the end gave me the chills, so nostalgic
Thats CK2 lol
@@dylanroemmele906 i looked for it and its one of sasau themes from kingdom come
@@senekzj That's not the song at the end though lol
Your video could easily be watched by non EU4 players as they are interesting. You clearly deserve more
he predicted 1.34 update lol
How you can rotate the map like that?
did you know that backround song you are playing is the instrumants from a song about the tueton order
If anyone wonders what music was played in the background:
_Die Eisenfaust am Lanzenschaft_ "the iron fist on the lance shaft"
_Palästinalied_ "Palestine song"
And an original soundtrack from _Crusader Kings II_
Could have also mentioned their purpose of being here, what they wanted to do in these lands. Great video nevertheless!
I'm hoping the next dlc focuses on holy orders and introduces the Latin Empire as a formable tag
Can I get the source from the map at 5:51?
The teutonic order was the first nation I did well as. I allied muscovy, repeatedly kicked Polands arse and got a PU over muscovy and France. Sadly I had to get a new laptop before I could annex them both but I was op as hell. I even owned novgorod.
I can’t say how many hours I’ve played as the Teutons as they were the First Nation I played after learning the ropes of eu4 with France. Failure after failure until I was finally able to beat Poland.
Im imagining, like, a nordic dlc bundle of sorts, one for eu4, and one for hoi4.
How are the top 3 starting ideas in the game (Oirat, aq qonyulu and Teutonics) weak?
That use of Hungarian, suprised me.
So underpowered
I just wish they added a bit more too it than just "Oh it exists let's put in an event so that it won't after 1470"
Gonna be honest though, playing the tuetons - Germany was definitely one of my favorite playthroughs of the game
Not what i expected
This is a beautiful rendition of Palestinilied in the background!
3:16 Coomerland for the coomer people.
Want an update on Teutonic Order? Play Flavor Universalis mod.
What are the songs used?
Why do you draw out the last syllable of each word so much?
Palästinalied was a nice touch
North crusade is how they got there
Make a video about the hisn kayfa
It should be emphasized that the German migration into Teuton lands never replaced native populations, it simply subjugated them. The legitimacy of holy orders came from the pope, so when the papacy stopped endorsing them, it was free real estate.
Edit: removed part about polish claims to the land
The shared culture is actual bs. The where slavs but not Polish. Furthermore Nationalism was not a thing during this time.
What a load of rubbish , the natives assimilated with the Germans, learned German, but many continued to speak their own languages way up until 1900. they weren’t „subjugated“ or had anything to do with the polish lol
@@NeoMicy yeah you’re right that was very poor phrasing on my part, like you say the polish monarchs were foreign rulers.
@@heinrich8390 Saying that Slavic Pomeranians had nothing to do with Poles is a bit of an exaggeration. Even after the Polish Pomerania was annexed there were still plenty of Polish knightly houses there as evidenced by the number of knights serving on the principles of Polish chivalry law (hereditary rental law). After all, this land was a Polish fiefdom from the XI century until the fall of Gdańsk in 1308.
Actually it was Lithuania that was thier overlord (nevermind that the Polish king was also the Grand Duke) and that distinction was important when they formed Prussia, as they no longer had a Jagiellon to answer to
emmm no they answered to poland it self because the jagiellons ruled from poland in krakow and lithuania was in the pu with poland not poland with lithuania until the union of lublin which united the both nations. second they didnt form prussia they were forced to make prussia and pay tribute. next they werent answering to the jagiellons they were answering to poland as i said before and they werent actually prussia they were ducal prussia which became normal prussia when brandenburg inherited the prussian dukedome
3:58 that technicly dosn't forbid the knights from having children with them. That just means they don't have to talk with them which is ok in my book.
Bu saatte video mu atılır krdş
my second game was the teutonic and i became overpowered
for some reason i have no sound on this video
Poland
use the flavor universalis mod
Its a shame that the Teutonic Order doesnt have a Mission Tree.
The first time I play EU4 I actually played as the Teutonic Order, I got killed so fast that I need to use cheats for the rest of my Teutonic playthrough
Thinking the Teutons are weak is one of the dumbest thing that can ever exist, their only flaw is the lack of focus tree
When a friend and i bough eu4, we decided to try it not knowing anything of the game, i was the teutonic order and him was brandeburg, we got absolutelly destroyed by our neighbours in like 30 mins
No wonder, since the game starts already after the battle of Grunwald, its already on its last legs.
if a historical beckmesser is allowed to contribute: that flag czcams.com/video/Cq7ehI3SxlQ/video.html is the personal and individual flag of the Hochmeister (the big boss) of the order. The order in general used just a black cross without the coat of arms of the HRE.
By 1444, Livonian Order and Teutonic Order should be once country.
I've done Teutons into Prussia twice now, granted it was just on normal mode ironman. Idk how difficult it is on higher setting though
I have played The Teutonic Order almost 20 times and I must say Grunwald was just a flesh wound.
best country maybe i think its cool needs dlc
It was weak in real history too in 1444. It was cased by lost for the Order battle of Tanenberg, which took place in 1410.
Frederick II is the Emperor who had Muslim bodyguards and kinda received Jerusalem as a gift, because he was cool with Islam.
The Hadji Wilhelm of his time. 😙
wow I love muslim people
btw can I take Arabia?
@@bokonoo77 Bist du ein Kaiser?
@@MS-Holding Bald. Bald....
I like knights
Hmmm yes teutons need a buff
more of this. Bahmani Sultanate?
Forming Germany as Teutonic order is an interesting challenge which I have done by the way it was really challenging and fun I even coloniSden half of America with them and I didn’t sadly Play with dlcs.
where square memel, the birthplace of the meme
Weak Theocracy Mechanics
@Appius I. M. true
It was pretty op when it first came out but then it got nerfed and then forgotten
I don't think the Teutonic Order was dissolved, it their land might have been conquered etc but the order lives on to this date (you can even buy merch from their website)
That's because the parts of the Order located in the Rech refused to accept the dissolvent of the Order.
@@kamilszadkowski8864 so the order in Poland dissolved but not the one in Austria?
@@davidsandin2426 More or less, yes.
It's nice to find out that not only holy orders sucked in eu4 they sucked in real life.
How the hell were Grandmasters illiterate? One would think they need to read the Bible to even qualify for the spot.
Damn, before I knew about their history I found them intriguing and might worth a shot at a campaign, but nah, they are quite shitty tbh
What do u mean weak? I slap poland around as them all the time they are super strong
AI Teutonic Order* is weak. I love fighting Poles/Lithuanians as TO, they have such juicy farmlands for me to take. Poland especially. If TO actually got a mission set, that would be great.
AI TO doesn't even want to convert to protestant, even if they have the requirements.
why would they. they're a catholic theocracy
Palästinalied 👍
Weak? The Teutonic order starts with cav combat ability and discipline, effectively making them stackwipers in the early game.
Romuva religion when? 0_0
cos poland always invades them.. the good thing is the amount of forts they have.. teutonics always reminds me of the movie Blazing Saddles where the guy calls a German woman a
"Teutonic Tw@" lmao
The Teutons were my First Nation and I played it died then didn’t touch eu4 again for a year
Didn't they join the crusade against the ottomans and got their army wiped
what.
Do you mean Teutonic Knights?
I would say they are actually pretty strong but ok
Tbh they need to be buffed
Why? As an AI they get polanded like they're supposed to but as a player they're strong
Everyone talking like Prussia doesn’t exist…. Um Prussia exists in Russia because cathrine the great made a state for Prussian peoples within Russia
2.5k hours. Poland looses every time when they dont choose pu over lithuania. When teutons have good alliance with hungary and bohemia, they usually destroy poland.
^^
They should add the Prussian confedetarion
Just caled "The Baltick Confederation" and have you need to make them happy or they will rice up
Yes i now the thing with Danzig, but is cheap af
“cheap af” que intentaste decir con eso
WEAK?!
Honestly the order is weak because Paradox railroaded them to be weak. Poland is supposed to be one of the "beginner" nations for new players so all their expansion targets have been purposefully weakened or put into impossible situations such as the order's burgher uprising to make new players feel powerful and snowball early
#BlamePoland
Becouse poland is also weak and Developers probably want to make this game historycal so poland can kill them
Most based nation on earth