There’s no entry level for pvp… you just run into smurfs like 80% of time in arena. So the learning curve is basically so steep till you ragequit and go back to pve.
Yeah its often like that:Get lucky find one who guides you and explain stuff or pay someone to do it. Or have enough experience and stress tolerance and brute force your way or just quit:D Legion->Shadowlands i helped a lot of people(fresh or returning gamers like from TBC) just because i was bored got many to 2-2.4k in 1-2 weeks (2s) 1 got glad in the first season and a few in the second or third) Dont know if Blizzard could bring a decent pvp guide into the game that would help.
If there were more stringent bracket locks keeping those that have previously reached 2000CR+ out of games with those that never reached 1800CR+ it might feel better for less experienced players. But even if there was strict bracket locks, making a fresh account just to play Vs players that haven't achieved high ratings would still be done. Great MMO features that keep players interested in wow pvp for decades are the same things new players will struggle because of. Wow pvp is complicated. Dozens of specs that all play differently with dozens of abilities that must be inturupted to survive and dozens of other abilities that *could* be inturupted, but should be ignored or handled in other ways. Players need to know to succeed, what pvp talent and spec abilities are available for every spec, know current specs design and recent tuning changes, what their personal BIS gear is, enchants, embellishments, gems, stat prio, their own specs rotations and the most creative use of tools avaliable. So yeah, it is complicated. A full conquest novice can quite easily get decimated by an expert in mostly honor gear on an alt, but an expert sends their alts conquest gear boxes so they are not wearing honor gear. Ability pruning and increasing "time to kill" I don't recommend, but dying in 2 seconds doesn't increase new pvp player retention. In a pvp dev interview it was said "players have to die" and that's true, but less than exceptional dps players die almost immediately when combat starts. Pressing offensive abilities for 2 seconds when you needed to use a couple defensives instead is a death sentence, and I'm fine with that, but new players are not. On the rewards topic for Solo BGs and non-rated play. Just better looking honor and conquest sets would be nice, a lot of players like earning titles, pvp rewards that don't actually help pvp but are still desired would be nice, like drake or better crests, real sad getting whelping crests in the pvp endgame, especially in rated combat. Raise gold earned for pvp quite a bit, we could buy our own rewards for success in pvp from the AH if we could actually earn gold. Have a good week of Solo BGs, bam, you earned enough currency to buy enchants or maybe a mount. Doing it just for rating or "fun", isn't enough for a lot of ppl.
@blubbobbelo I casually coached guildmates who wanted to dps like me in raid if they asked to learn more about Retribution. Taught my gf what little I knew about the game when I got her an account. One of my favorite ways to help was tanking for strangers in SL. I'd join a pug group for a M2, and help them push the key as high as they were willing. Didn't need the gear myself, so I'd hand it to whoever wanted it. Felt good to help players out. A lot of the pvp basics can be learned from CZcams and WoWhead, but to start knowing nothing and need to know most things to succeed would take months of dedication studying WoW pvp like you're in College. Anyone is welcome to wing it and learn as they go, but it wouldn't be easy to learn without capitalizing on online resources.
@@bastian3938that’s not an answer, i could be a goated uh dk, and try to play a healer or even a caster in PvP and it would end miserably. Not because healing/range dps is harder per se, but because the roles all have diffrent play styles in PvP and what they need to watch for.
yeah you are right, wish we had more cool little rewards for solo shuffle / 2s / 3s. why not make rewards for each bracket 1400-1500-1600-1700-1800 etc, that way more people play.
In regards to healers not healbotting: Take a vein from Overwatch. The healers aren’t “healers”. They are supports. Yes they heal, but they’re also expected to do significant damage and use their utility to turn team fights.
id love this but we need better targeting the reason it works for supports to do damage in other game is because there isn't friction (or as much) doing it. it feels natural. needing more macros or keybinds to target swap often is what kills pvp healing for people
@@Vooz_WoWthat would actually be a really cool idea, the aura would have to be pretty sizable so they still have SOME range but it’s a really cool idea
Cosmetics I don’t care about… Answer for solo shuffle que times is to do what they did in overwatch. If you queue as a healer you get dps tickets. Meaning go play five matches as healer, then swap to any dps spec on any character and have five faster que tickets. It would up the amount of healers that play. It would reward people who help increase healer numbers this creating a faster environment .
Im starting to think there is always one random rookie employee in blizzard who do the pvp balance job. Because noone wants to do this and noone gives a damn about PVP. I guess it fits the logic that the most competent employees are busy with raids and m+ stuff.
There are literally next to zero reward after 1,8k cr in pvp and after keystone hero in m+. I am not a pro, I did 2,4k cr in shuffle (As a dps) once and 3,3k rio once in m+ (both in dragonflight). Never again, so much grind for literally nothing.
You’re right on the money. What Blizzard seems to failing to understand is that PvP is the most replay-able content wow has to offer. If they catered a bit more to PvP and simply just gave cosmetics, for all rated play - it would be a game changer. Good video, man. Thanks for putting this out there!
Hey Markers I'd like Blizzard to move towards making solo shuffle the official 'main' PVP bracket and tune the game around it rather than organized rated 3v3. It isn't easy for me to say that as 3's has always been my favourite bracket since OG Wrath, but I think that the usual model for having players organize themselves to get games is provably *not* a model for growth and only worsens as the game develops and social ties weaken. There are major changes they could make to improve solo shuffle, have you considered doing a longform video addressing possible changes that would improve the game mode? I think primarily the quality of matches and the queue times need to be improved first and foremost. My view is that by enforcing a melee/ranged/healer constraint on matchups you could reduce the number of rounds played in a 6 player shuffle lobby from 6 down to 4. Firstly this would reduce the overall length of shuffle games, making them less taxing and easier (more fun) to chain-queue for healers and increase the rate at which the same healers can be recycled for different DPS players who are sitting in queue. Secondly, I strongly feel that the quality of 3v3 games is best in a melee/ranged/healer comp (on both sides) and that while Wizard and (sometimes even...) Melee cleaves can be fun, that they more often than not tend to lead to more degenerate (for lack of a better term) lower quality gameplay that focuses more on sustained throughput or zerging than coordinated dynamic play. Anyway, there are many, many areas to improve and this is just one of many suggestions floating in the ether. Thanks.
I'm not sure if it'll still be like this in the new expansion, but those Tiersets really killed my pvp experience (especially on alts, or if you haven't played in a few weeks and have to catch up)... Having to grind other content for a chance to get the gear, or get lucky in the vault. Why not just have the crafted pvp gear, honor pvp gear and conq pvp gear? Makes so much more sense, so you can just play pvp instead of the second job type grinding to be able to start to be competitve. Great video with super valid points!
Man, after almost 20 years of playing the game, I've learned that you just gotta roll with the punches. I find this is the best it's been in a very long time for casual dads like myself.
wow is actually the best game ever made. But people just dont see it. Not only the gameplay but the social aspect aswell. I met some of my best reallife friends on wow. I will ride this train to the last station 100%
Imagine this: they reimagine the grand Marshal and high warlord gear in HD with updates like tier 6 got with the legion raid and release that as a bg rating reward for blitz
This might be alittle of topic but i remember having that hollow glow in mist of pandaria from 2300 cr in arenas, how do you get that glow now? Just returned to retail. (Your dark enchant)
Big agree, i got into healing in BFA as rdruid as well because of the damage. Felt like i could actually make a difference. I will always advocate for that. GIVE HEALERS MORE DAMAGE!!
It’s the same thing over and over pvp will never be their main focus everyone will complain about the same things it will not change, it sucks but they don’t and will not cater to the pvp players . You will roll with the changes and adapt that’s how it works it’s simple and it will never change
I get wanting PvP to be back in focus some what, but even if you look at Arena Championship, no one watches it compared to MDI and RWF. So the devs are going to put their time towards what brings people into the game. WoW PvP is not friendly to new players or even Veteran players.
i was a peak casual player up until legion when i joined my first pve guild and started goin for aotc every patch pre legion, i was the slightly above average rsham quing up random bgs all day inbetween old raids chasing rare mounts, i have not touched pvp since legion
Couldn’t agree more about healers, they need to be impactful on the game for it to feel worth playing. They need damage and utilities to get people interested.
Great video, would love for blizz to put in some effort, but all these years of neglect makes it very hard to be hopeful. The PvP community also isn't the most welcoming one, a lot of the old guard don't want any change and don't realize that their favourite playstyle is dying because there is a lot of gatekeeping and toxicity. Still, love wow pvp and it stays my favourite mode, PvE doesn't even compare
A little extra rewards for solo would be nice, the litte delves mount is a good opportunity for that. Maybe if they made running 3 not be such a challenge would be nice.
I always wondered why they reworked smite/mindblast to no longer reduce incoming damage coming from that enemy.. I think something along the line of this should be implemented for all healers personally. Also damage abilities costing so much mana on certain healing specs feels really bad. It’s a buzzkill when I’m forced to play hyper defensive in all longer games because I know I’ll OOM if I cast too many wraths or crusader strikes during to help land kills (Far less of an issue in SS, I know)
Here's what I wanna know: How come I can go back and farm every single dungeon and raid set and mount and pets (handful of exceptions) across all difficulties, but I can't go and get the old elite sets? How come there isn't a token or something I get for hitting duelist that allows me to go back and buy the old sets or illusions? If you say "muh prestige" "muh I did it 15 years ago" kick rocks
My take on healers doing damage. The mana cost of doing damage was actually counterproductive. Mana cost for healers damage abilities need to be basically zero or return mana. Master shapeshifter is an excellent design on this. Something like this should be a part of all healer kits. DPS for damage and mana while keeping the game very fast paced. The healers that can heal chaotic healing scenarios and then whoever can weave in free damage the most should win the games more average. Then after that has been established look at more options to convert damage to healing on cd very similar to heart of the wild dream of cenarious, melee wings, crane style, atonement etc. Take away drinking and make mana regen about doing damage. Edit, lol you said something similar to this like 10 seconds after where I paused the video.
What will save shuffle is don't let any healer be in the game type. Why make 90% people suffer for a 1% gameplay style. Don't make people play something that's not fun. Make the game twice as fun by taking away the healer. Worst part about PVP is how long people survive take away the healer and boom game is fun again.
Blizzard doesn't 'fix' and add content is because they know if they do it all at once then there's nothing to look forward too. In a live service game they have to trickle content in and save the most impactful ones for when they really need to bring people back to the game. They know all of this. It's all content they can drip feed in.
Everyone would just mirror the same busted 2s group, no skills what so ever. No reward for that. I know most would disagree but that’s how I feel about it. I do agree with you on the enchants with more colors.
They really need to give DPS a conquest reward for losing at solo shuffle. How are you supposed to win since you don't have the conquest gear since you can't WIN???
Then people would just feed to get the game over with, just run your daily blitz epic and normal bg, the quests they hand out also give you conquest. Idk if losing and still gaining would work the way you want it to
If you play on your main and gear it at the start of the season you have roughly the same item level as everybody else. If you see any success you can mail conquest gear from that character to your alts. It's not a perfect system, but it is a time gated system that allows an expert player to cap conquest on one character in 2 hours or so. If that is tripled for a bad player, they can still cap conquest on several characters weekly. Gearing isn't too slow for anyone if they start playing when the season starts.
they gave us solo shuffle and solo rbgs... that's proof they are listening. honestly, i hope they are working on a separate wow arena game they can focus on. they wanted that with HOTS but should have stayed within their own lane of wow pvp instead of trying to branch out into mobas.
I genuinely believe that they've already discovered their solution and haven't realized it- mana return on doing damage. We see it with rdruid wraths with master shapeshifter. We've seen it since inception in energy loop for prevokers pressing disin, and lo and behold, many people consistently find prev to be the fun most fun healer. Mindgames now returns 2% mana. Crackling jade lightning returns 0.1% base mana per tick. Lava burst and lightning bolt now return 2% mana (i dont think flame shock should return mana, thatd be way too passive and pad, i just think lava burst returning mana acts as an incentive to take lava surge and press flame shock, and I like that being incentivized) Literally just allow damage to be a skill expression in a meaningful way. Everyone at their core wants to press buttons and see healthbars reduce to 0. Even more than they wanna see healthbars go back up to 100. I swear theyre sitting on their own answer, looking around not finding it because its beneath their feet.
The issue is that PvPers are only a minority of players. And Blizzard have finite resources to allocate. The way for Blizzard to maximise profits is to provide content to a majority of players with as little risk as possible. New zones, new dungeons, etc. These are risk-free additions that will please a majority of the players in a cost-effective way. By contrast, PvP is a gamble. A new battleground is a risk. PvPers could end up hating it (think Strands of the Ancients, Seething Shore), and that's money down the drain just to please a small minority of players. Class balance is also way more risky in PvP. Think of how Cyclone shattered the PvP meta when it came out, compared to how little it impacted PvE. What I am trying to say is: investing in PvP seems risky with little returns. Whereas focusing on PvE is less risky and have bigger returns.
Love the comp stomp 3v3 idea I talked to friends about playing after getting a little indept on pvp they just don't even want to try but having a ez way to get in practice and talk about it I feel like would be amazing heck I think i would do a quick one here and there just to warm up on my keys between solo shuffle games
You have to put yourself in their shoes: In the same way that you don't get incentives for climbing in PVP, I guarantee the PVP developers don't get incentives from their employer for improving PVP, so they just don't care and do the bare minimum to get the same paycheck as they would if it was incredible.
Great video - ty for covering this topic! LOL about the flag. I am a healer/dps'r too - if I can't dps while healing, then just ugh. Love that journal idea and practice Arena (OMG-Yes)!!
@MMARKERS ya i heard about the plus 4 more spells but i want moonkin option convokes so fluid form has a purpose but ya il definitely be watching your convoke builds.
adding mounts to all brackets, adding some more illusions and buffing mmr alot sooner just instantly doubles the player base for pvp, crazy that they just do fck all :(
Blizz should add tokens for tabard/illusions/Gladiator mounts from the past. Like Dragonflight mounts will be exclusive for Dragonflight+TWW and after that you can earn tokens for old mounts like after receiving your Gladiator wins 50-150 wins more will give you a token. Mounts are accwide anyway today i wouldnt care if we get new players into pvp that way. And maybe add some beginner queue where players with 2.4k+ acms cant get into even with alt characters. (But maybe thats not great either because people will not improve if the gameplay is to wild;D)
Healers should heal -> it's low-rated mentality. In a good team healer coordinates the team, communicates when dps can push in, call out defcds (dps presses it actually), and keeps track of DR to start a cc chain during go ( rmpally ) or goes in and fears on DR or cc off dps to get off pressure from your caster..etc. One thing that nobody talks about how the MMR was artificially was fucked on EU by boosters and from 2.3 to 2.5 you were only facing pilot boosters but after 2.5 games were fine...
I definitely care more about the latter parts of the video vs cosmetics. Why can't I see what a spell does in PVP with a hover over?!? You have to read patch notes galore to find out how a spell works in PvP
I think community 2v2/3v3/SS tournaments could be fun. Or just 2v2 tournaments that anyone can come and try for. Woukd be fun to open 2v2 to more veiwership and importance. 2v2 is a dead bracket at higher cr even lower cr sometimes. It'd be cool to see people who never play awc to see how good they are at the game in other areas like Duo
The problem with 2v2 is that healing can be too oppressive depending on balance. If 2xDPS has a hope to beat Heal/DPS then its ok, but when that isn't the case it makes 2s annoying. No one wants 30 minute dampening 2v2s. Maybe just make the option to only que 2x dps vs other 2x dps teams.
I dont like the idea of healers doing damage because then they become unkillable in Wpvp. Its already bad enough that some healers can use one spell and tops their health back up. same with arenas that's why we have damping because fights would last way too long and pretty much a stalemate.
I feel like if they could bring back past elite sets that would be some massive motivation considering vast majority of the players from back then that have it are all gone and the last of them dont use them. That and class balance im so dam tired of which class has the strongest one shot, i play feral and just get trained entire rounds hopelessly, it is a wet dream for a marksmanhunter to see me to just hit 3 buttons and im instant dead through my defenses.
So the guy with the Rogue "bias" nerfed Kidney Shot CD to the longest its ever been, dating back to vanilla. Don't even need Myth-busters for this one.
Always felt like PvPers kinda get shafted with rewards. You can give 6 straight hours of your time to the game in arenas and walk away with 0 gold. Do one terrible dungeon and you can earn gold? It has always been slanted towards PvE man, but I hope it changes!
Been saying it for years all brackets need Glad mount recolor rewards not only 3s or it just kills most insentives to push harder in everything that isn't 3s
When mmr sticks from last season is also bad. I joined solo shuffle after a 6 month break on 2.8 MMR on ZERO rating with GREEN honor gear at end of season where every1 is bis and I have not even tested the current rotation for my class. Safe to say it was a disaster.. I had to go 0-40 to fix my MMR down to the point where I could try and play while I get back in shape
Giving healers damage is only good if when they get kicked they are actually heavily punished and can die. When healers can spam damage and not worry about getting locked out the game sucks
I still think resilience was better than versatility. Just remove the itemization of resilience which (as far as i remember) is why they removed it to begin with. Edit: all really good points, liked, subscribed, following on twitch, still think boomkins are dumb. =^]
1 hd remake of everything pre legion cosmetically. Remixes even. Same with mounts. 2 usable in pvp only rewards/cosmetics 3 pvp gear sets 4 just seperate pvp abilities and pve... Starting with. 5 less abilities, specifically CC... 6 give us 2s dps vs dps.. Or.. 7 make healees support style like other games, obviously this is a much bigger thing.. Aug is a start and the whole targeting and ui would need some work but hey come on blizzard.. We still watching healthbars in 2024. 8 man there are so few maps and game types for pvp.. Again.. 20 years blizzard. Overall and pve wise, the game is in amazing place.. I don't feel like pvp potential had been scratched yet.
It's PvP and has ZERO value to the majority of players... really. That's half the problem with SoD they over focused on PvP and its made people leave in droves.
TWW will be the most bug-imbalance-explosive-burst-fiesta expansion ever made... and that's why perhaps it will be the funniest of all, at this point just embrace chaos, blizzard don't care anymore about pvp so why bother, pick two or three specs that perform well on blitz and just have fun guys, the game is completely alt friendly now so you can role and play whatever you want at any moment
I always f*cking knew they rigged balance for rogues in PvP. Yup Blizzard you struck gold with cheap shot in 2006 in TBC. No need for a cooldown on instant cast and undispellable cheap shot, and f it, let’s give rogues 2 shadow dances, 2 vanishes, 6 second subterfuge and shadowy duel it so it’s all they do is cheap shot and burst, or run away till they can do it again
There's definitely way too much stuff in wow and still an insanely high proportion of passive stuff which is literally just wasted pixels on the screen as it gets countered by all the other classes passive stuff. I get that it's an MMO and you need to feel like you're progressing and getting stronger, but having a bunch of passive crap flying around and secretly modifying rotational things just seems like a waste. Look at plunderstorm, very few abilities but still a lot of combinations to outplay and very easy to pick up as a new player. I think they definitely need to do another Legion style ability cull but I am also in my 30s so nostalgia is strong with how the game used to be.
The only way pvp becomes popular again is with gameplay that is not only engaging but also easy to engage. If wow introduced a moba-esque 5v5 game mode like the game everyone loves to mention, LoL, you'd see spike in pvp retention and then halfway through and xpac you'd see a steady decline in pop unless the targeting and kit bloat is addressed. This is why most 3rd person trifecta based games don't use tab targeting and opt for smart healing, less time cycling through targets & macros will always retain more players because the game is no longer a rubix cube to the noobs and 30 sec tiktok addicts and the gameplay becomes more fluid. Appealing to the zoomer mindset of "healers can do dmg too" you're also asking for dmg to do healing as well which I don't think is the best path, same as catering to the boomer "cloth only heals" mindset shackles you to endless class balancing & power creep. Imo once the targeting becomes less classic and more modern action based everything else will begin to fall into place. And if you LIKE classic targeting and macros, well I got news for ya. That means your old... . . . and gay.
Wow is the only game I loved playing. If I’m not playing wow then I go months without playing any video games. It sucks that the game isn’t what it used to be ):
I think when they added War Mode it stoped many people from ever expierencing pvp. A world pvp encounter is usually what brings people into PVP. Without this many people dont get the taste or desire to start Qued PVP.
World of Warcraft is the best game ever made. always people be like "this is the worst pvp expansion/season/patch/change ever" its been going for decades, always the same x)
Shadowshitlands was the worst xpac by far. I have a feeling that this wont be the worst, but probably will be the most buggy and imbalanced Half the shit on beta isnt even working
I personally believe that pvp in wow should be a separate game client. They can break the game in that client for all I care. Let's face it dude, Blizz has its hands full with the new TWW launch incoming. Your pvp will have to take the backseat until after the smoke settles. They're having enough trouble balancing pve, now you want to add pvp in the mix--pheww!
Reskin popular bgs. Imagine wsg but it's human and undead themed in the foothills. Or goblin and gnome themed. The game mode is great, we don't need new modes engineered. Just give us fun changes of scenery with the modes we love!
Preach. Also on the topic of tabards, can we all agree that it's GODAWFUL how Blizzard intentionally invests time into making shit looking equipment, colored with the most awful tints of brown, teal and everything that doesn't match the overall vibe of the game. They clearly do this intentionally in order to make the different tiers of armors/weapons pop out more, but it also fills the game with just a bunch of garbage that doesn't look nice. Vanilla and TBC were different. There were items from all level ranges that are cult classics. The red defias mask was the most iconic and sought after item by rogues and drakedog impersonators. That's because all items were specifically designed with a single intention: to be cool as fuck. None of the items you pick up while progressing your character in the early phases of the game feel visually rewarding.
Tons of great ways mentioned here to make it better. I freaking live and die for WoW pvp bro, like you put it at the start - i've tried so many diff options over the years and NOTHING comes close to scratching that itch I often times just loop back to at this point wishin if anything wow pvp didnt need to be attached to an mmo. Love wow - i dont love it as much as its pvp at this point tho. PvE and story can be fun - but again its not why im leveling a character, its to queue arenas with my boys. For me personally WoW arenas and even bgs do stand on their own two legs - they're why i play. It just such a fun complex, and incredibly dynamic form of pvp game. just so crippled by the fact of barrier to entry. Low incentives dont bring in people on the fence that are playing wow for other reasons, The community has a self mutilating issue not realizing it pushes its future gens away. This is all without mentioning the real barriers to entry being attached to an mmo inherently makes it much harder to get the game to be more popular as a competitive pvp game, (sub fee, leveling, gearing, subscription). And like mentioned in the vid, Where is the learning tools for someone that does go through all the previous hurdles? Nothing, There is no good learning tools, and in fact what we do have is actually bad learning tools. That being the pve, and leveling content. Say a brand new player finds their way to wow, and then pvp. What would they know without any external assistance online? Well for starters they know when they get CC'd its because they failed a mechanic, and best case scenario know how to Kick things that are casting, and hopefully know their core dmg rotation, and maybe know 1 or 2 other classes from leveling them casually as well. Not a lot of help there going into pvp huh. I can't fathom how tough it would be in this day what it has to feel like not only being new to this game but esspecially trying to get into wow pvp at this point. A lot of us have been playing for over a decade in this aspect of the game - with not a crazy turnover of new faces. A lot of ppl mention the competiton of wow and how much better they do it ad nauseum, but its really kinda true. Does it make me swap, not cus im straight addicted to wow pvp, but Blizz could learn a thing or two about they little things that help. League is built from the ground up as a pvp model game, and does a lot in the way before you can send queues as a newbie. First you have a full tutorial, which albeit doesnt teach you a ton about the pvp gameplay itself much, but at the least teaches you how to play the game (at the end point of the game mind you) Wow new exiles reach is decent as far as prepping a lvl 10. but guarentee and ive seen it first hand, lvl by lvl adding more and more to you bars with no new tutorial as a new player gets incredibly confusing. League then makes you play against AI matches in an environment familiar to what every pvp version will be beyond that. Like you said, why is there no arena comp stomp? On top of all of that. It has a pretty damn good private match Testing gamemode just to test things. AND this is a big one and also similar to what you suggested with the spellbook idea. If i dont know something about a champ, boom i can in game. look it up, see all of their abilities, even with a DEMO VIDEO of how whatever spell works. again im not saying wow could be where league is at - the compeition is stacked due to wow being an MMO, and league being built from the ground up as a free to play pvp centered game. But there is a lot there that could help at least ease the gap ya? like learning tools, in game utilities and better guides and tutorials that dont require 3rd party. adding some UI changes and so on. Though...im also a complete wow pvp radical :) as someone that fkn hates leveling 16 toons so my 3s buddies and i have more comps to pick from. Give me a detached version of the game with 0 lvl require 0 gear require, give me a stat pool of points i can allocate as i wish before a queue and let me send it - give me purely cosmetic bonuses for IT and maybe mainline game. It'll never happen but i bet i could get more of my discord bros to try it out in scenario like that lol
I think, for me personally. Pvp is so fast paced compared to when I started. It feels like a pve dps fest. I even tried tww beta shuffle and still feels like it's about maxing out pve rotation. Secondly, I've played longer than most known gladiators. Ven, Pika etc. Yet I have not once been a gladiator. I know it's a skill issue, but you lose the will to try after 20 years. And outside of gladiator mount, which I can't get, there isn't much incentive. I lose all titles and I have no mounts. So it feels like a waste of time. About the healers. Like, i know my wife is one of those who is "old". But i think you guys are narrowminded. Why not make them like monk? You could literally build it to dps for healing or stationary healer. Maybe give all healers the potential to be build different?
There’s no entry level for pvp… you just run into smurfs like 80% of time in arena. So the learning curve is basically so steep till you ragequit and go back to pve.
Yeah its often like that:Get lucky find one who guides you and explain stuff or pay someone to do it. Or have enough experience and stress tolerance and brute force your way or just quit:D Legion->Shadowlands i helped a lot of people(fresh or returning gamers like from TBC) just because i was bored got many to 2-2.4k in 1-2 weeks (2s) 1 got glad in the first season and a few in the second or third) Dont know if Blizzard could bring a decent pvp guide into the game that would help.
If there were more stringent bracket locks keeping those that have previously reached 2000CR+ out of games with those that never reached 1800CR+ it might feel better for less experienced players.
But even if there was strict bracket locks, making a fresh account just to play Vs players that haven't achieved high ratings would still be done.
Great MMO features that keep players interested in wow pvp for decades are the same things new players will struggle because of.
Wow pvp is complicated. Dozens of specs that all play differently with dozens of abilities that must be inturupted to survive and dozens of other abilities that *could* be inturupted, but should be ignored or handled in other ways. Players need to know to succeed, what pvp talent and spec abilities are available for every spec, know current specs design and recent tuning changes, what their personal BIS gear is, enchants, embellishments, gems, stat prio, their own specs rotations and the most creative use of tools avaliable.
So yeah, it is complicated. A full conquest novice can quite easily get decimated by an expert in mostly honor gear on an alt, but an expert sends their alts conquest gear boxes so they are not wearing honor gear.
Ability pruning and increasing "time to kill" I don't recommend, but dying in 2 seconds doesn't increase new pvp player retention. In a pvp dev interview it was said "players have to die" and that's true, but less than exceptional dps players die almost immediately when combat starts. Pressing offensive abilities for 2 seconds when you needed to use a couple defensives instead is a death sentence, and I'm fine with that, but new players are not.
On the rewards topic for Solo BGs and non-rated play. Just better looking honor and conquest sets would be nice, a lot of players like earning titles, pvp rewards that don't actually help pvp but are still desired would be nice, like drake or better crests, real sad getting whelping crests in the pvp endgame, especially in rated combat. Raise gold earned for pvp quite a bit, we could buy our own rewards for success in pvp from the AH if we could actually earn gold. Have a good week of Solo BGs, bam, you earned enough currency to buy enchants or maybe a mount. Doing it just for rating or "fun", isn't enough for a lot of ppl.
Account MMR! Thats what we need. A Global MMR.
@blubbobbelo I casually coached guildmates who wanted to dps like me in raid if they asked to learn more about Retribution. Taught my gf what little I knew about the game when I got her an account.
One of my favorite ways to help was tanking for strangers in SL. I'd join a pug group for a M2, and help them push the key as high as they were willing. Didn't need the gear myself, so I'd hand it to whoever wanted it. Felt good to help players out.
A lot of the pvp basics can be learned from CZcams and WoWhead, but to start knowing nothing and need to know most things to succeed would take months of dedication studying WoW pvp like you're in College. Anyone is welcome to wing it and learn as they go, but it wouldn't be easy to learn without capitalizing on online resources.
@@bastian3938that’s not an answer, i could be a goated uh dk, and try to play a healer or even a caster in PvP and it would end miserably. Not because healing/range dps is harder per se, but because the roles all have diffrent play styles in PvP and what they need to watch for.
yeah you are right, wish we had more cool little rewards for solo shuffle / 2s / 3s. why not make rewards for each bracket 1400-1500-1600-1700-1800 etc, that way more people play.
100%
In regards to healers not healbotting:
Take a vein from Overwatch. The healers aren’t “healers”. They are supports. Yes they heal, but they’re also expected to do significant damage and use their utility to turn team fights.
The direction i hope they go with wow
@@MMARKERS let disc just have an aura of atonement so we can pump dmg and heal like a casted fistweaver 🙏🙏🙏
id love this but we need better targeting the reason it works for supports to do damage in other game is because there isn't friction (or as much) doing it. it feels natural. needing more macros or keybinds to target swap often is what kills pvp healing for people
@@Vooz_WoWthat would actually be a really cool idea, the aura would have to be pretty sizable so they still have SOME range but it’s a really cool idea
Can confirm: There isn't an MMO or other game that captures the essence of competitive arena.
There‘s Ring of Titans, but it has no players
You try fighting games?
Been playing MMOs for nearly 25 years and nothing compares with wow arena, and I have tried most other games.
@@naquan59 I fight only players!!
Cosmetics I don’t care about…
Answer for solo shuffle que times is to do what they did in overwatch. If you queue as a healer you get dps tickets. Meaning go play five matches as healer, then swap to any dps spec on any character and have five faster que tickets. It would up the amount of healers that play. It would reward people who help increase healer numbers this creating a faster environment .
This is a great idea
So any awful healer can just afk a match and then roll dps after..... sounds good.
Fair point!
@@cs4mo utilize the report button. Yes there would be some negatives BUT overall I think would be good for the game.
Genius.
Big shout-out for Mvq, his points are very valid.
Mvq is the last person on this planet who needs praise. He’s an awful person
@@messybuttons7525 I know nothing about that, but this post was 100% true.
@@palfotta Well now you know.
Solo shuffle 2v2 dps would have been great. But no only 3s and forcing a healer to be available.
1s, 2s, 3s, 4s, 5s. It doesn't make sense. That doesn't reduce the queues either.
Im starting to think there is always one random rookie employee in blizzard who do the pvp balance job. Because noone wants to do this and noone gives a damn about PVP. I guess it fits the logic that the most competent employees are busy with raids and m+ stuff.
Sad but the truth, there is no game hooking me like WoW and I´ll try getting better in PvP and enjoying your content
There are literally next to zero reward after 1,8k cr in pvp and after keystone hero in m+. I am not a pro, I did 2,4k cr in shuffle (As a dps) once and 3,3k rio once in m+ (both in dragonflight). Never again, so much grind for literally nothing.
You’re right on the money. What Blizzard seems to failing to understand is that PvP is the most replay-able content wow has to offer. If they catered a bit more to PvP and simply just gave cosmetics, for all rated play - it would be a game changer.
Good video, man. Thanks for putting this out there!
Hey Markers I'd like Blizzard to move towards making solo shuffle the official 'main' PVP bracket and tune the game around it rather than organized rated 3v3. It isn't easy for me to say that as 3's has always been my favourite bracket since OG Wrath, but I think that the usual model for having players organize themselves to get games is provably *not* a model for growth and only worsens as the game develops and social ties weaken.
There are major changes they could make to improve solo shuffle, have you considered doing a longform video addressing possible changes that would improve the game mode? I think primarily the quality of matches and the queue times need to be improved first and foremost. My view is that by enforcing a melee/ranged/healer constraint on matchups you could reduce the number of rounds played in a 6 player shuffle lobby from 6 down to 4. Firstly this would reduce the overall length of shuffle games, making them less taxing and easier (more fun) to chain-queue for healers and increase the rate at which the same healers can be recycled for different DPS players who are sitting in queue. Secondly, I strongly feel that the quality of 3v3 games is best in a melee/ranged/healer comp (on both sides) and that while Wizard and (sometimes even...) Melee cleaves can be fun, that they more often than not tend to lead to more degenerate (for lack of a better term) lower quality gameplay that focuses more on sustained throughput or zerging than coordinated dynamic play.
Anyway, there are many, many areas to improve and this is just one of many suggestions floating in the ether. Thanks.
I'm not sure if it'll still be like this in the new expansion, but those Tiersets really killed my pvp experience (especially on alts, or if you haven't played in a few weeks and have to catch up)... Having to grind other content for a chance to get the gear, or get lucky in the vault. Why not just have the crafted pvp gear, honor pvp gear and conq pvp gear? Makes so much more sense, so you can just play pvp instead of the second job type grinding to be able to start to be competitve. Great video with super valid points!
Man, after almost 20 years of playing the game, I've learned that you just gotta roll with the punches. I find this is the best it's been in a very long time for casual dads like myself.
wow is actually the best game ever made. But people just dont see it. Not only the gameplay but the social aspect aswell. I met some of my best reallife friends on wow. I will ride this train to the last station 100%
Me too ❤
Imagine this: they reimagine the grand Marshal and high warlord gear in HD with updates like tier 6 got with the legion raid and release that as a bg rating reward for blitz
This might be alittle of topic but i remember having that hollow glow in mist of pandaria from 2300 cr in arenas, how do you get that glow now? Just returned to retail. (Your dark enchant)
Bg blitz hype
Which class spec do you think too op? Im thinking to gear up my ele shaman when the season starts..
Big agree, i got into healing in BFA as rdruid as well because of the damage. Felt like i could actually make a difference. I will always advocate for that. GIVE HEALERS MORE DAMAGE!!
It’s the same thing over and over pvp will never be their main focus everyone will complain about the same things it will not change, it sucks but they don’t and will not cater to the pvp players . You will roll with the changes and adapt that’s how it works it’s simple and it will never change
I get wanting PvP to be back in focus some what, but even if you look at Arena Championship, no one watches it compared to MDI and RWF. So the devs are going to put their time towards what brings people into the game. WoW PvP is not friendly to new players or even Veteran players.
I’ve been thinking the same damn thing about illusions for years. JUST RECOLOR LEGION AND MOP ONES FOR THE LOVE OF GOD
i was a peak casual player up until legion when i joined my first pve guild and started goin for aotc every patch
pre legion, i was the slightly above average rsham quing up random bgs all day inbetween old raids chasing rare mounts, i have not touched pvp since legion
Couldn’t agree more about healers, they need to be impactful on the game for it to feel worth playing. They need damage and utilities to get people interested.
Great video, would love for blizz to put in some effort, but all these years of neglect makes it very hard to be hopeful. The PvP community also isn't the most welcoming one, a lot of the old guard don't want any change and don't realize that their favourite playstyle is dying because there is a lot of gatekeeping and toxicity. Still, love wow pvp and it stays my favourite mode, PvE doesn't even compare
A little extra rewards for solo would be nice, the litte delves mount is a good opportunity for that. Maybe if they made running 3 not be such a challenge would be nice.
I always wondered why they reworked smite/mindblast to no longer reduce incoming damage coming from that enemy..
I think something along the line of this should be implemented for all healers personally.
Also damage abilities costing so much mana on certain healing specs feels really bad. It’s a buzzkill when I’m forced to play hyper defensive in all longer games because I know I’ll OOM if I cast too many wraths or crusader strikes during to help land kills
(Far less of an issue in SS, I know)
Here's what I wanna know: How come I can go back and farm every single dungeon and raid set and mount and pets (handful of exceptions) across all difficulties, but I can't go and get the old elite sets? How come there isn't a token or something I get for hitting duelist that allows me to go back and buy the old sets or illusions? If you say "muh prestige" "muh I did it 15 years ago" kick rocks
My take on healers doing damage. The mana cost of doing damage was actually counterproductive. Mana cost for healers damage abilities need to be basically zero or return mana. Master shapeshifter is an excellent design on this. Something like this should be a part of all healer kits. DPS for damage and mana while keeping the game very fast paced. The healers that can heal chaotic healing scenarios and then whoever can weave in free damage the most should win the games more average. Then after that has been established look at more options to convert damage to healing on cd very similar to heart of the wild dream of cenarious, melee wings, crane style, atonement etc. Take away drinking and make mana regen about doing damage. Edit, lol you said something similar to this like 10 seconds after where I paused the video.
My dream is shockadin being viable again, you lost a lot of healing power but gain some good dps, but they’re just too lazy to make it work
What will save shuffle is don't let any healer be in the game type. Why make 90% people suffer for a 1% gameplay style.
Don't make people play something that's not fun.
Make the game twice as fun by taking away the healer. Worst part about PVP is how long people survive take away the healer and boom game is fun again.
You’re right. I have tried a bunch of PvP games over the past 20 years and I either come back to WoW or just play Heroes of the Storm.
Blizzard doesn't 'fix' and add content is because they know if they do it all at once then there's nothing to look forward too. In a live service game they have to trickle content in and save the most impactful ones for when they really need to bring people back to the game. They know all of this. It's all content they can drip feed in.
Everytime you see that red enchant you’re like damn he’s a pvper
Everyone would just mirror the same busted 2s group, no skills what so ever. No reward for that. I know most would disagree but that’s how I feel about it. I do agree with you on the enchants with more colors.
They really need to give DPS a conquest reward for losing at solo shuffle. How are you supposed to win since you don't have the conquest gear since you can't WIN???
Then people would just feed to get the game over with, just run your daily blitz epic and normal bg, the quests they hand out also give you conquest. Idk if losing and still gaining would work the way you want it to
If you play on your main and gear it at the start of the season you have roughly the same item level as everybody else. If you see any success you can mail conquest gear from that character to your alts.
It's not a perfect system, but it is a time gated system that allows an expert player to cap conquest on one character in 2 hours or so. If that is tripled for a bad player, they can still cap conquest on several characters weekly. Gearing isn't too slow for anyone if they start playing when the season starts.
Scapegoat - the word you were thinking of.
Ppl forget how big wow pvp once was back in the day… until blizzard doubled down on not giving a shit.
they gave us solo shuffle and solo rbgs... that's proof they are listening.
honestly, i hope they are working on a separate wow arena game they can focus on. they wanted that with HOTS but should have stayed within their own lane of wow pvp instead of trying to branch out into mobas.
I genuinely believe that they've already discovered their solution and haven't realized it- mana return on doing damage. We see it with rdruid wraths with master shapeshifter. We've seen it since inception in energy loop for prevokers pressing disin, and lo and behold, many people consistently find prev to be the fun most fun healer.
Mindgames now returns 2% mana.
Crackling jade lightning returns 0.1% base mana per tick.
Lava burst and lightning bolt now return 2% mana (i dont think flame shock should return mana, thatd be way too passive and pad, i just think lava burst returning mana acts as an incentive to take lava surge and press flame shock, and I like that being incentivized)
Literally just allow damage to be a skill expression in a meaningful way. Everyone at their core wants to press buttons and see healthbars reduce to 0. Even more than they wanna see healthbars go back up to 100. I swear theyre sitting on their own answer, looking around not finding it because its beneath their feet.
I'd quit my job and help create that player vs computer arena scenario if it'd get into the game. Im 100% for that for trying out new specs in pvp
The issue is that PvPers are only a minority of players. And Blizzard have finite resources to allocate. The way for Blizzard to maximise profits is to provide content to a majority of players with as little risk as possible. New zones, new dungeons, etc. These are risk-free additions that will please a majority of the players in a cost-effective way. By contrast, PvP is a gamble. A new battleground is a risk. PvPers could end up hating it (think Strands of the Ancients, Seething Shore), and that's money down the drain just to please a small minority of players. Class balance is also way more risky in PvP. Think of how Cyclone shattered the PvP meta when it came out, compared to how little it impacted PvE. What I am trying to say is: investing in PvP seems risky with little returns. Whereas focusing on PvE is less risky and have bigger returns.
Love the comp stomp 3v3 idea I talked to friends about playing after getting a little indept on pvp they just don't even want to try but having a ez way to get in practice and talk about it I feel like would be amazing heck I think i would do a quick one here and there just to warm up on my keys between solo shuffle games
Solo shuffle tournament would be cool. No teams, everything random.
You have to put yourself in their shoes: In the same way that you don't get incentives for climbing in PVP, I guarantee the PVP developers don't get incentives from their employer for improving PVP, so they just don't care and do the bare minimum to get the same paycheck as they would if it was incredible.
I think we can live in a world where we can have healers that want to just heal and one's that want to dps as well
Bold of you to assume Riot Cares about league balance or health
Great video - ty for covering this topic! LOL about the flag. I am a healer/dps'r too - if I can't dps while healing, then just ugh. Love that journal idea and practice Arena (OMG-Yes)!!
Even back in tbc I used to dive in on resto druid to stun etc. Definitely the way togo.
Same, and they took moonkin away from resto. And rip and rake feel worthless and convoke doesnt even compare to tree now.
Convoke actually feels good on beta! Try it again after patch today :)
@MMARKERS ya i heard about the plus 4 more spells but i want moonkin option convokes so fluid form has a purpose but ya il definitely be watching your convoke builds.
PREACH brother!
adding mounts to all brackets, adding some more illusions and buffing mmr alot sooner just instantly doubles the player base for pvp, crazy that they just do fck all :(
and i very much would like to ask those workers: why they increased HPs to millions?
Blizz should add tokens for tabard/illusions/Gladiator mounts from the past. Like Dragonflight mounts will be exclusive for Dragonflight+TWW and after that you can earn tokens for old mounts like after receiving your Gladiator wins 50-150 wins more will give you a token. Mounts are accwide anyway today i wouldnt care if we get new players into pvp that way. And maybe add some beginner queue where players with 2.4k+ acms cant get into even with alt characters. (But maybe thats not great either because people will not improve if the gameplay is to wild;D)
Thank you for this.
The only reason I stopped playing wow pvp was because the class design went to shit. That is the fundamentally most important thing to fix.
💯 agree on having ai bots as target dummies. I’ve mentioned this to friends in game. That would really help for practicing pvp etc
Healers should heal -> it's low-rated mentality. In a good team healer coordinates the team, communicates when dps can push in, call out defcds (dps presses it actually), and keeps track of DR to start a cc chain during go ( rmpally ) or goes in and fears on DR or cc off dps to get off pressure from your caster..etc.
One thing that nobody talks about how the MMR was artificially was fucked on EU by boosters and from 2.3 to 2.5 you were only facing pilot boosters but after 2.5 games were fine...
I definitely care more about the latter parts of the video vs cosmetics.
Why can't I see what a spell does in PVP with a hover over?!? You have to read patch notes galore to find out how a spell works in PvP
I think community 2v2/3v3/SS tournaments could be fun. Or just 2v2 tournaments that anyone can come and try for. Woukd be fun to open 2v2 to more veiwership and importance. 2v2 is a dead bracket at higher cr even lower cr sometimes. It'd be cool to see people who never play awc to see how good they are at the game in other areas like Duo
WoW PvP is simply amazing. Fingers crossed more people give it a fair shot!
We are getting a Battleground Blitz mode or something like that soon! I hope we get a new BG!
There is a new bg in TWW
This was an amazing video with great ass suggestions I hope someone at blizzard listens to this
Markers the Assassin Druid = very fun 2v2.
The problem with 2v2 is that healing can be too oppressive depending on balance. If 2xDPS has a hope to beat Heal/DPS then its ok, but when that isn't the case it makes 2s annoying. No one wants 30 minute dampening 2v2s. Maybe just make the option to only que 2x dps vs other 2x dps teams.
Even if its not "balanced" its a competitive bracket with 0 no unique rewards. Makes players think..whats the point?
@MMARKERS best option for 2v2 is just make healers do burst so a well coordinated team is rewarded? I 100% agree there needs to be improved rewards
I dont like the idea of healers doing damage because then they become unkillable in Wpvp. Its already bad enough that some healers can use one spell and tops their health back up. same with arenas that's why we have damping because fights would last way too long and pretty much a stalemate.
I feel like if they could bring back past elite sets that would be some massive motivation considering vast majority of the players from back then that have it are all gone and the last of them dont use them. That and class balance im so dam tired of which class has the strongest one shot, i play feral and just get trained entire rounds hopelessly, it is a wet dream for a marksmanhunter to see me to just hit 3 buttons and im instant dead through my defenses.
what addons for that dark line around your UI?
Uber ui
So the guy with the Rogue "bias" nerfed Kidney Shot CD to the longest its ever been, dating back to vanilla. Don't even need Myth-busters for this one.
Always felt like PvPers kinda get shafted with rewards. You can give 6 straight hours of your time to the game in arenas and walk away with 0 gold. Do one terrible dungeon and you can earn gold? It has always been slanted towards PvE man, but I hope it changes!
Been saying it for years all brackets need Glad mount recolor rewards not only 3s or it just kills most insentives to push harder in everything that isn't 3s
Don't think Realz is working on rogue anymore from what I've seen on the rogue disc
i played WoW since beta. AND HELL YEA. I love Druide and Disci. Because u can u DMG. It is so true.
I can watch 50 youtube videos a day. This was the best so far this month. GJ!
Man I wish they had the option to practice in arena, that would be nice
When mmr sticks from last season is also bad. I joined solo shuffle after a 6 month break on 2.8 MMR on ZERO rating with GREEN honor gear at end of season where every1 is bis and I have not even tested the current rotation for my class. Safe to say it was a disaster.. I had to go 0-40 to fix my MMR down to the point where I could try and play while I get back in shape
Giving healers damage is only good if when they get kicked they are actually heavily punished and can die. When healers can spam damage and not worry about getting locked out the game sucks
I still think resilience was better than versatility. Just remove the itemization of resilience which (as far as i remember) is why they removed it to begin with.
Edit: all really good points, liked, subscribed, following on twitch, still think boomkins are dumb. =^]
1 hd remake of everything pre legion cosmetically.
Remixes even. Same with mounts.
2 usable in pvp only rewards/cosmetics
3 pvp gear sets
4 just seperate pvp abilities and pve... Starting with.
5 less abilities, specifically CC...
6 give us 2s dps vs dps.. Or..
7 make healees support style like other games, obviously this is a much bigger thing.. Aug is a start and the whole targeting and ui would need some work but hey come on blizzard.. We still watching healthbars in 2024.
8 man there are so few maps and game types for pvp.. Again.. 20 years blizzard.
Overall and pve wise, the game is in amazing place.. I don't feel like pvp potential had been scratched yet.
1000% agree on healer comments its also why I heal too
It's PvP and has ZERO value to the majority of players... really. That's half the problem with SoD they over focused on PvP and its made people leave in droves.
TWW will be the most bug-imbalance-explosive-burst-fiesta expansion ever made... and that's why perhaps it will be the funniest of all, at this point just embrace chaos, blizzard don't care anymore about pvp so why bother, pick two or three specs that perform well on blitz and just have fun guys, the game is completely alt friendly now so you can role and play whatever you want at any moment
I always f*cking knew they rigged balance for rogues in PvP. Yup Blizzard you struck gold with cheap shot in 2006 in TBC.
No need for a cooldown on instant cast and undispellable cheap shot, and f it, let’s give rogues 2 shadow dances, 2 vanishes, 6 second subterfuge and shadowy duel it so it’s all they do is cheap shot and burst, or run away till they can do it again
There's definitely way too much stuff in wow and still an insanely high proportion of passive stuff which is literally just wasted pixels on the screen as it gets countered by all the other classes passive stuff.
I get that it's an MMO and you need to feel like you're progressing and getting stronger, but having a bunch of passive crap flying around and secretly modifying rotational things just seems like a waste.
Look at plunderstorm, very few abilities but still a lot of combinations to outplay and very easy to pick up as a new player. I think they definitely need to do another Legion style ability cull but I am also in my 30s so nostalgia is strong with how the game used to be.
The first season of every xpac is always extremely alive, but it usually dies out after season 1..
The only way pvp becomes popular again is with gameplay that is not only engaging but also easy to engage.
If wow introduced a moba-esque 5v5 game mode like the game everyone loves to mention, LoL, you'd see spike in pvp retention and then halfway through and xpac you'd see a steady decline in pop unless the targeting and kit bloat is addressed.
This is why most 3rd person trifecta based games don't use tab targeting and opt for smart healing, less time cycling through targets & macros will always retain more players because the game is no longer a rubix cube to the noobs and 30 sec tiktok addicts and the gameplay becomes more fluid.
Appealing to the zoomer mindset of "healers can do dmg too" you're also asking for dmg to do healing as well which I don't think is the best path, same as catering to the boomer "cloth only heals" mindset shackles you to endless class balancing & power creep.
Imo once the targeting becomes less classic and more modern action based everything else will begin to fall into place.
And if you LIKE classic targeting and macros, well I got news for ya.
That means your old...
.
.
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and gay.
I like the s4 Illusion
I'm coming back this xpac with high hopes it will be better 😢
Wow is the only game I loved playing. If I’m not playing wow then I go months without playing any video games. It sucks that the game isn’t what it used to be ):
I think when they added War Mode it stoped many people from ever expierencing pvp. A world pvp encounter is usually what brings people into PVP. Without this many people dont get the taste or desire to start Qued PVP.
I miss wpvp
World of Warcraft is the best game ever made.
always people be like "this is the worst pvp expansion/season/patch/change ever"
its been going for decades, always the same x)
Shadowshitlands was the worst xpac by far.
I have a feeling that this wont be the worst, but probably will be the most buggy and imbalanced
Half the shit on beta isnt even working
I personally believe that pvp in wow should be a separate game client. They can break the game in that client for all I care. Let's face it dude, Blizz has its hands full with the new TWW launch incoming. Your pvp will have to take the backseat until after the smoke settles. They're having enough trouble balancing pve, now you want to add pvp in the mix--pheww!
For shuffle they only need to queue dps together vs other dps. Who cares if there is a healer or no
yeah, warhammer online was best pvp mmo for me (massive pvp ) 50vs50 100vs100 , small scale 3v3 5v5 wow is king , forever
Reskin popular bgs. Imagine wsg but it's human and undead themed in the foothills. Or goblin and gnome themed. The game mode is great, we don't need new modes engineered. Just give us fun changes of scenery with the modes we love!
Preach.
Also on the topic of tabards, can we all agree that it's GODAWFUL how Blizzard intentionally invests time into making shit looking equipment, colored with the most awful tints of brown, teal and everything that doesn't match the overall vibe of the game. They clearly do this intentionally in order to make the different tiers of armors/weapons pop out more, but it also fills the game with just a bunch of garbage that doesn't look nice.
Vanilla and TBC were different. There were items from all level ranges that are cult classics. The red defias mask was the most iconic and sought after item by rogues and drakedog impersonators. That's because all items were specifically designed with a single intention: to be cool as fuck. None of the items you pick up while progressing your character in the early phases of the game feel visually rewarding.
Why I quit. They don’t give af about pvp and haven’t for a long time.
Tons of great ways mentioned here to make it better.
I freaking live and die for WoW pvp bro, like you put it at the start - i've tried so many diff options over the years and NOTHING comes close to scratching that itch
I often times just loop back to at this point wishin if anything wow pvp didnt need to be attached to an mmo.
Love wow - i dont love it as much as its pvp at this point tho.
PvE and story can be fun - but again its not why im leveling a character, its to queue arenas with my boys.
For me personally WoW arenas and even bgs do stand on their own two legs - they're why i play. It just such a fun complex, and incredibly dynamic form of pvp game. just so crippled by the fact of barrier to entry. Low incentives dont bring in people on the fence that are playing wow for other reasons, The community has a self mutilating issue not realizing it pushes its future gens away. This is all without mentioning the real barriers to entry being attached to an mmo inherently makes it much harder to get the game to be more popular as a competitive pvp game, (sub fee, leveling, gearing, subscription).
And like mentioned in the vid, Where is the learning tools for someone that does go through all the previous hurdles? Nothing, There is no good learning tools, and in fact what we do have is actually bad learning tools. That being the pve, and leveling content.
Say a brand new player finds their way to wow, and then pvp. What would they know without any external assistance online? Well for starters they know when they get CC'd its because they failed a mechanic, and best case scenario know how to Kick things that are casting, and hopefully know their core dmg rotation, and maybe know 1 or 2 other classes from leveling them casually as well.
Not a lot of help there going into pvp huh.
I can't fathom how tough it would be in this day what it has to feel like not only being new to this game but esspecially trying to get into wow pvp at this point. A lot of us have been playing for over a decade in this aspect of the game - with not a crazy turnover of new faces.
A lot of ppl mention the competiton of wow and how much better they do it ad nauseum, but its really kinda true. Does it make me swap, not cus im straight addicted to wow pvp, but Blizz could learn a thing or two about they little things that help. League is built from the ground up as a pvp model game, and does a lot in the way before you can send queues as a newbie. First you have a full tutorial, which albeit doesnt teach you a ton about the pvp gameplay itself much, but at the least teaches you how to play the game (at the end point of the game mind you) Wow new exiles reach is decent as far as prepping a lvl 10. but guarentee and ive seen it first hand, lvl by lvl adding more and more to you bars with no new tutorial as a new player gets incredibly confusing.
League then makes you play against AI matches in an environment familiar to what every pvp version will be beyond that.
Like you said, why is there no arena comp stomp?
On top of all of that. It has a pretty damn good private match Testing gamemode just to test things.
AND this is a big one and also similar to what you suggested with the spellbook idea.
If i dont know something about a champ, boom i can in game. look it up, see all of their abilities, even with a DEMO VIDEO of how whatever spell works.
again im not saying wow could be where league is at - the compeition is stacked due to wow being an MMO, and league being built from the ground up as a free to play pvp centered game.
But there is a lot there that could help at least ease the gap ya? like learning tools, in game utilities and better guides and tutorials that dont require 3rd party.
adding some UI changes and so on.
Though...im also a complete wow pvp radical :) as someone that fkn hates leveling 16 toons so my 3s buddies and i have more comps to pick from. Give me a detached version of the game with 0 lvl require 0 gear require, give me a stat pool of points i can allocate as i wish before a queue and let me send it - give me purely cosmetic bonuses for IT and maybe mainline game. It'll never happen but i bet i could get more of my discord bros to try it out in scenario like that lol
I think, for me personally. Pvp is so fast paced compared to when I started. It feels like a pve dps fest. I even tried tww beta shuffle and still feels like it's about maxing out pve rotation. Secondly, I've played longer than most known gladiators. Ven, Pika etc. Yet I have not once been a gladiator. I know it's a skill issue, but you lose the will to try after 20 years. And outside of gladiator mount, which I can't get, there isn't much incentive. I lose all titles and I have no mounts. So it feels like a waste of time.
About the healers. Like, i know my wife is one of those who is "old".
But i think you guys are narrowminded.
Why not make them like monk? You could literally build it to dps for healing or stationary healer. Maybe give all healers the potential to be build different?
we should have separate servers for pvp tbh, with it own settings/balance aka tournement realms!!!!