It's pretty smart, he's letting him know it's a pile of shit that he needs to get rid of and is happy to sell cheap, but the other guy can sell it on at a more normal price to someone who doesn't know.
@@suprcrzy about that, I always wonder why everyone keeps mentioning about the band playing till the end, but nobody's mentioning the engineers that stays behind trying to keep the lights on as long as possible to ensure as many people as possible could flee
Indeed, these phone calls really accentuates his quickness, confidence and ruthlessness, standing apart from his otherwise everyday good buddy persona.
"Listen, you're a friend so I'm coming to you first; Jennifer is making me clean out the garage and I'm getting rid of my old Bowflex that's missing a few weights and pieces so today it looks like my loss is your gain. What do you say at $80?"
@@jasonli7960 Lol whatever dude. And when you bid on a house what do you say? You say you make the seller an offer. Technically yes you are still bidding but who cares man get outside, if you were half as good as slamming pussy as you are with vocabulary you wouldn't be on youtube calling people out on technicalities LMFAO.
Před 6 lety+4307
Dear Deutsche Bank, you should *not* advertise before this video. :-)
I like how this scene shows that even though the firm was clearly taking advantage of the buyers, the buyers were also partially culpable. Despite having some misgivings about what was going on, they were still happy to make the trade if the price was good enough. Fear and greed on a balance beam, and all that.
Well dude a financial company has a fiduciary responsibility by law... So they have to sell the assets. Otherwise they would could be sued or worse. That's what this moviefaila to explain but the movie never explains anything. The movie only explains that one dude found something. Lol one manager said be careful... So overdramatic and nof realistic. When you see selloffs, people are buying those assets.
The guy that bought in the 60% range might have ended up turning that for a profit. If his trading firm didn't collapse from their own negative weight. Afterall, the u.s. taxpayers made money from the TARP bailout. Sure, the losers who stood outside at Occupy Wall Street never mentioned that, probably because they were too dense to know.. Things are grey and in the grey can be both good and bad.
that’s the buyers job as market makers. they’re just looking to flatten their risk or flip it anyway. so the buyers in this scene may not have gotten stuck with it.
Don't you love how all the bad guys on Wall Street were portrayed in this Hollywood production by gentiles, when we know full well who runs the banks. This film was about reshaping the narrative for damage control, and when the 1% movement started they made sure to use the media control to ensure that 99% was broken up into all the demographics fighting with one another.
@@BoopSnoot everything you dipshits say about Jews applies to WASPs just the same, with the caveat that WASPs weren't forced by their rulers to become merchants and bankers for hundreds of years.
Paul Bettany really knocked it out of the park with this role. He also has the single best monologue of the entire movie (speaking about the 'Live like Kings' monologue).
I worked with city traders for many years and Paul Bettany played this perfectly, I knew plenty of guys just like this character. I also knew plenty of city senior management and Jeremy Irons played his role perfectly too.
Sam's prediction of how the day went was pretty damn accurate. He said they'd be selling at 65 cents on the dollar by 2 PM, and that's the price Will's 3 PM trade filled at.
@Stephen Ward he meant that the only way Tuld would pull the trigger on a fire sale like this that would torpedo the company's profits AND (more importantly) their reputation and connection on the street was if he knew something that Sam didn't (like the bail out packages that came, super supportive Federal Reserve etc...). That's basically why in their 1:1 after the fire sale Tuld basically says there's a ton of money to be made following this, just as there had been in every prior financial shock. And he was right. 2009 onward markets across the board delivered very strong returns.
Since most of us only know him as Jarvis, it's strange to see that voice coming out of a person's mouth. It just doesn't feel like it should belong to a real person.
Imagine paying 65 cents on the dollar and thinking "holy smokes I landed a hell of a deal" only to find out next morning that it's now worth less than 5 cents. Jesus christ! Don't even want to imagine that feeling.
Mr. Ted I doubt his counterparts cared much about what he was saying, for them it was about the price. Selling off some assets isn't that out of the ordinary so he didn't have that much convincing to do. This is more evident in the last bit, where they drop all the small talk and get right to the price.
@@ParabolicGains I guess when I was watching the most recent season of Billions when Axe Capital was hacked and they had to get out burner phones to make the trades, the young guys didn't know how to do it. Axe and Wags had to show them how it was done. It made me wonder how much anyone gets on the phone anymore.
That reminded me of an old joke: A boy, whose name was Bernie, moved to the country and bought a donkey from an old farmer for $100. The farmer promised to bring the donkey over the next day. The next day the farmer drove to the farm and said, "Sorry boy, I have bad news for you. The donkey is dead." Bernie replied, "All right, give me my money back." The farmer shrugged: "Can't do it. I've already spent the money." Then Bernie: "OK, just unload the donkey." The old farmer asks: "What are you doing with that?" Bernie: "I'll give it away in a lottery." Farmer: "Nonsense, you can't give away a dead donkey." Bernie: "Of course I can. I just don't tell anyone that he's dead." A month later, the old man meets Bernie again and asks him: "How did that go with the dead donkey?" Bernie: "I raffled it off. I sold 500 tickets at $2 each and made a profit of $998, which isn't in the books. The loss of $100 for a dead donkey is in there, though." Farmer: "Has nobody complained?" Bernie: "Sure, the guy who won the donkey. So I gave him his $2 back."
When I first saw this movie I hardly understood a damn thing they were talking about, just knew it was a really good script. Now that I'm more educated on the subject I see the brilliance of it. The writer just decides to put you straight into this world, with all its jargon, and isn't interested in explaining it to the viewer (like the big short or too big to fail do) because the characters don't need it explained to them.
Perhaps they wanted you to make the effort to research so you'd learn and build a new perspective on what happened. Left to our own devices, most of us wouldn't even bother and would just stop watching. Which is a shame because this is a brilliant movie.
"All its jargon?" You mean worn-out lines like "My loss is your gain...."? That's the most effective pitch a trader making six figures plus bonus could come up with that morning? Yeah, the trading floor manager really lit a fire under their asses, eh?
@@russg1801 You either haven't watched the movie or you're being obtuse, so shut up. OP is clearly referring to the rest of the film, for example where they're explaining to the executives what went wrong.
What are you talking about? The Big Short was universally praised for breaking down the housing market crash in layman's terms. They even brought in Margot Robbie, Anthony Bourdain, and Selena Gomez to break it down for you!
Being first definitely helps in this scenario since you can flip it if you have enough wiggle room early. Later in the day obviously it looks a lot worse once word gets out
@@user-gc9qk7fo1w True enough considering everything and his orders from his boss going to those first few people are his actual friends in the trading world. Since they can still survive the hit and not be ruined potentially.
Ex-WS soldier here; including being a market maker in fixed income. This is the best financial movie I've seen so far. The script and characters are so real.
@@Eddie_3607 I see something different. More like 79-81. Negative real borrowing cost encourages people to borrow. Biggest borrowers are governments, except this time I don't see a Paul Voelker on the horizon for now anyway.
@@arkrazor354 go long on physical Silver 17.3 Billion ozt in global reserve, 2.4 mill used every day, natural deposits almost used up, 75% of production inelastic (byproduct of other mining), ~10 years left at current usage (which will increase) besides hedge against infl., massive price discovery coming soon. paper futures to physical ratio is 352:1. dollar to physical ratio $2,547:1 ozt once price is discovered it will jump to $12,500 : 1 ozt in 2022 dollars. thank me later. tell your friends and family.
Someone broke it down based on the times, how much he was selling, times 50 for the number of brokers and estimated the company lost $27 billion in about 4 hours. If they hadn't the loss would've been upwards of $800 billion.
The 800 billion figure is based on the entire Wall Street, LB lost was 3.9 billion and investors ran for the door withdrawing $196b that left it with 1b and it filed for Bankruptcy shortly after.
@@davidmoss2576 damn epic. One of worst time in our recent lives but how they handled it…I don’t want to say it was right call but if I was there, I would have made same decision.
Somebody trying to sell you something where they will take over a hundred million loss. It might be time to question that purchase. They aren't selling it out of the kindness of their heart.
He claims that he is being forced to sell because of risk management regulations, so he'd be forced to take the loss. Thats why the buyers believed him
Not quite. The people he's selling to in this scene buy and sell the exact same "shit" on a daily basis. They're his peers, not victims. His company is simply the first to recognize it for it is and do something about it.
Changes his tone with each prospect to match their demeanor. This is why sales is the highest (and lowest) paying profession that can never be automated at the high levels. It can be a performance and an art.
@@blaxicanx What do you mean? Nobody is going to buy a luxury yacht or anything like that because of some chatgpt text. The man's comment is still perfectly applicable.
@@emerald39 I disagree. In 10-20 years time, AI will be sophisicated enough to evaluate risk vs. reward better than humans and will be programmed accordingly to make purchases on its own for financial services companies.
@@asuk218ablenot even years. 2 months and go check out the presentation of GPT-o. The tone, the language, the intonation of GPT is better than mine :)
Like a lot of people I came across this movie by accident one night at home watching television. Now watched it four or five times! Just a incredible storyline with incredible acting by most in the movie. A movie from the reality of 2008.
@@mlc4495 we're already there. Gas knocking on 6.50 a gallon here. Diesel near 7. No food in the stores to buy. Stores closed on both sides of the road everywhere you go. The only thing movies like this miss... is the horror of us working class starving to death in the south because our very small amount of money is no longer worth anything.
@@PwnyDwn Currency. Your very small amount of currency is no longer worth anything. Only gold and silver are money. czcams.com/video/DyV0OfU3-FU/video.html
Sodiumreactor He didn’t. He agreed to an 85 cents on a dollars sale before lunch. He kissed that bonus goodbye. However, I think that he knew that no one could get the bonus anyways. He just did his job.
I think price only mattered when it hits south of 65. As Sam said in the meeting and their conversation right before the last transaction. So they got their bonus since the primary objective is to dump all toxic assets by COB. But we all know what happened next after they got their bonus
"I don't cheat," says Tuld in the Sr. Partners meeting. I've seen a lot of mockery of that line. This scene shows he's not cheating; he is, as he says, selling to willing buyers. It's not cheating BY THE RULES OF THE GAME HE IS PLAYING. Every one of the traders answering the phones here works for somebody like Tuld, and they all are playing according to the rules. Arguably unethical, in its way, but not cheating, and nothing any of these guys wouldn't be doing in the same position. They all in fact suspect something's fishy, but they play anyway. According to the rules.
@Jimmy Two Times they wouldn't if US government haven't been listening to BlackRock executives (who are made up of former government officials btw) that are managing and responsible for those firms/banks and telling US govt "we gotta bail 'em out"
Cheating would be scamming or forcing them to take it. They are offering and they arent even asking why they would sell it. Its like overfeeding a shark with raw meet until he cant move and drown...
why does everyone in CZcams comments have to exaggerate so hard every time? "This is the best XY i have seen in MY LIFE!!" etc. Is this a decent movie? Yes But its definitly NOT one of THE BEST in the last 30(!!) years... Its not even one of the best of 2011 where movies like Drive and The Artist came out. 7.1/10 on IMDb btw.
@@FckPooTN Very good comment. Also, CZcamsrs seem infatuated with the word "underrated". Every movie, actor, singer, guitarist, drummer etc etc is "criminally UNDERrated". I read once where a guy said that "Jimmy Page was an underrated guitarist"... and the dunce was NOT just joking.
@@donarthiazi2443 So true man! Read that all the time. I think the reason why everyone saying that and everyone liking it is: When you say someone is "underrated" that makes YOU the cool expert who see the "true" potential/rating in a person while everyone else is a pleb because they "rate" him wrong/UNDER-rate him. And everyone who like that comment can feel special too. "Yay! I also like Denis Villeneuve hihi! I agree, he is CRIMINALLY UNDERRATED!!"
This was a very good film and if you watch this, The Big Short and Too Big to Fail you can get an excellent idea as to how it all fell apart in 2008. Each film focuses on different areas of the collapse. Maybe one of the best parts of this film probably went unnoticed by many and it's the fact that Jeremy Irons' character was correct when he said it's better to be first. When he says they have to dump it all Kevin Spacey's character objects because it means selling the worthless investments to their peers, which he fears will be remembered and eventually come back to them in spades but the truth is those who will get burned won't be around to exact revenge and if there is one thing Wall Street respects it's the ability to make money and survive. Those who get burned will perish and when the dust settles and profits return the next generation will work for and/or respect the fact that Irons' character made the smart choice and it paid off.
It is not only that. Kevin Spacey's character understands that if they do it, they pull the trigger that kills the market. Even if it would have survived otherwise. But of course, we know today it was the right call
@@elagrion Jeremy Ironside's character said you can be first, smarter or cheat. And he doesn't cheat. Some other firm would have been first if they weren't.
One of the things that I really enjoyed about the film was it showed well how behind the curtains, the C-suite/VP level is a very different breed than the lower level brass and aren’t afraid to speak their minds, The way Will gets mad at Sam on the phone encapsulates this so well. There are other examples of this in the film.
It's a common trader phrase that means all or nothing. The entire order must be "filled" or you "kill" the deal. "Fill or kill at 65" means fill the entire order at $0.65 on the dollar or no deal at all.
FoK is *not* AoN. FoK has to fill immediately once you press the trade. AoN means the order can still be queued, it just has to fill for the entire quantity of the trade.
If you had a warehouse full of bananas and they're turning brown, what would you rather get for them, 15 cents a lb, or get STUCK with them and throw them in the trash? And, THAT is why his boss approved the lower price.
@@fitrianhidayat The people who bought it had to have known that those issues might not be as fruitful as they were seeing. By 3:04, in the trading world, the globe has been circumnavigated multiple times
The boss said yes because the bananas were mostly brown at that time and worth nothing. It’s just that the rest of the market didn’t know it wasn’t worth anything.
"Haha well alright then stay on the line!" "Sam pick up the phone. SAM GET ON THE LINE!" I love the small change between these two lines. He's all salesman and cool as a cucumber with the other trader, but you can feel the stress as soon as he checks the trade with Sam as he pushes so urgently for him to pick up. Brilliant acting!!
Yea when someone tells you they'll be paying 8% less in 5 minutes, of course you've gotta play it cool but especially at that level of money, the 8% meaning $30 mil difference is crazy. And of course through this he probably realizes the reverse, that despite how much he was getting paid, he was making money for the company hand over fist when things were good to be able to withstand these kinds of losses on these trades.
I love how Deutsche bails but the closing trade is with Merrill who ended up getting absorbed by BoA … kinda interesting quirk to the film. FOK at 65…. Absolute balls of steel
This is sales 101. The moment you hear objection or suspicion at 0:55. You press the attack and close the deal. This is how shark salesman work their deals.
In 2007 the firm handling my retirement accounts had purchased several of these financial tranches. I had been interested in the housing mortgage market for some time, and saw that too many houses were being sold to too many people who could not possibly afford the mortgages. The housing market was a huge bubble, and I was lucky enough to see that this bubble would soon burst and all kinds of nastiness on the market, and severely affect, and even bankrupt a lot of people's retirement accounts. I was lucky, on January 3 of 2008 I had my financial management company sell everything.
I was in las vegas working building construction. We '"construction workers" knew about the housing downturn Summer of 2006. Just glad I didn't buy a sub prime home. pretty much allowed me to.... I don't know.... not be worse off than losing everything? ~Brian
This is so fucking beautifully put together, the music, shots, and script are just perfect. So fucking eerie to think this actually was happening and it was a small part of a bigger problem that ruined hundreds of thousands of lives. It changed EVERYONE's life. "I understand... Hit it." & "It's filled" followed by the closing bell, are my favorite lines of all time. I can watch movies like this all fucking day.
I realized the term 'fire sale' is sometimes misunderstood... the original meaning is selling all goods present in a depot that is on fire already and it is impossible to extinguish it. This is a logical decision and there is nothing bad about it. During a fire sale if you sell too slowly the flames of the burning building will destroy the valuable goods. So you must be quick enough, selling them quicker than the spreading flames destroy them, reducing the risk of a complete loss. A more common less grave situation is the closing out sale. At the end of a season you want to get rid of 'old' goods and sell them at least with zero loss to make room for the new season's goods. But by keeping those goods you would realize a far greater loss... maybe those goods might even become worthless (e.g. food products like grapes). Or in this case: mortages 😉 What makes this Operation Firesale so unique is that all the depots of the direct competitors buying and selling the same goods were burning as well but they did not know it yet; the firealarms were not ringing yet but it was just a matter of time.
They're not even calling the fire fighters cuz they know the fire fighters won't be able to put this out. So they're selling their sht to others in the same warehouse while running for the doors.
Not to be picky, but I'm pretty sure the origin of the phrase "fire sale" was the sale of good that had been damaged by a fire at a deep discount. Not wasting time selling things that might catch fire at any moment.
The only scene in the entire movie that actually mentions the underlying asset being traded and it uses terminology that only people familiar with mortgage backed securities would know.
Zachary Quinto says in the meeting with Jeremy Irons that “these are essentially just mortgages,” they use the acronym “MBS” at least a few times, and Demi Moore says in the earlier meeting that to value the assets without an active market “you'd have to go block by block” - but yes overall it's a smart choice by the screenwriter to treat the underlying asset as basically irrelevant to the plot, underscoring Irons' point to Spacey that the constant cycle of speculative bubbles bursting and leading to economic recessions is an unavoidable feature of capitalism.
@@willg-r3269 Can we stop telling lies by conflating utterly deregulated republicanism with capitalism? Thanks? Notice how many bribes were needed to get Bush into office so he could cancel Clinton's regulations against exactly there sort of bubbles.
@@nvelsen1975 Not to burst your bubble or anything (lol) but financial deregulation in the US has been an extremely bipartisan project, and many of the most important thrusts (particularly the Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999, widely known for tearing down the Glass-Steagall “firewall” between commercial banks and investment banks) took place during Clinton's presidency. Also, the conversation I'm referring to between Irons and Spacey is the one where Irons rattles off the years of major economic bubbles/downturns going back as far as the 17th century, and it's extremely clear that he's talking about the history of capitalism per se, not just a particular “version” of capitalism, let alone a version whose boundaries are defined by the mindless horse blinders of mainstream US electoral partisanship.
@@willg-r3269 Yes I'm aware that Republicans lie and claim Glass-Steagal proves it was all those evil evil demonic Demoncrats who did it. We were discussing your incorrect use of terminology however.
@@nvelsen1975 So you're saying that members of the US Republican Party secretly gained access to a time machine, traveled back in time hundreds of years before the Republican Party even existed, and engineered the creation of global capitalism as a system inherently prone to speculative financial bubbles? Your version of world history sounds like a truly fascinating narrative, please tell me more! If you want a serious answer, both major political parties in the US are gangs of irredeemable crooks who collaborated in fully bipartisan fashion to help bring about the financial crisis depicted in this movie, and I have no interest in trying to smear lipstick on either one of those pigs in orderto shift the blame entirely onto the other.
I bet Lawrence actually did pretty well in the long run. 65 cents on the dollar of 30 year mortgages. Even the worst class of mortgages (the subprime ARMs) were defaulting at 40% in 2009. Plus Lawrence probably got some government money for holding them. Seems like a winnable trade.
worked in a first tier wall street bank during those times, on the capital market trading floor. how a trade goes down especially for mbs/cdos are pretty similar but slower since traders will need to run the numbers, and the pricing for a what i assume triple a rated securities at that day of the trade (when they try to unload before everyone finds out) is not negotiate at single digit percentage level more like 1/100 percentage level. in real life these trade probably took anywhere from 5min to a few hours.
While everyone is talking about how the buyers of the toxic assets got screwed, it's not that simple. Most of the toxic assets paid off and there was a lot of profit made from the depths of the crisis to the recovery. The problem was they were difficult to value and became illiquid. In the crisis there was no market, no price, and therefore no value, but once the market recovered, most were valuable. Just not as valuable as originally expected.
True, they sold it as it already breach their projected volatility and just to be safe sold it as a loss but it doesn't mean it wouldn't be a gain in the future. Market tend to do a cycle, actually the buyers were lucky as the price was too low already. It could go down further than projected but compare it to the actual market value, its still cheap and still be a gain remember that mortgages and bonds matures.
All voice over and effective as hell -- fucking chilling. Bettany is terrific: e.g., the rhyming slang to the first customer, er, sucker. How an entire economy comes crashing down and people lose their homes in two minutes. By the end of one two-minute shot, it's 65 cents on the dollar. Welcome to the connected world.
You realize most people on the floor are busting ass to move $1M trades while Will Emerson (Paul Bettany) is moving $100M+ in single trade to City, Deutsche, Merrill, Trading, etc. That is the reason why he is the head of trading.
It's like a viral outbreak on the monetary level. And leading to the economic downfall of 07-08. Amazing movie that people who talk about the economy should watch and re-watch
2007-08 was a quake that governments quelled by throwing a lot of printed money at it like a giant quantatively-eased sticking plaster. We kicked the can down the road by about a decade and we're probably just about to catch up to that can again except this time around there's no more leeway left to use as a sticking plaster.. lockdowns are part of the fake economic collapse being engineered to cover up the real reasons for outright financial and monetary collapse behind the scenes.
It’s not safe to assume that the last buyer didn’t get stuck holding the bag. As they could have flipped it to another buyer real quick for a % mark up. If he think he got a deal at 65%, maybe he sold to next bank for 5% more with them thinking they got a deal as well. It could continue to repeat until someone gets stuck with it
Can we take a second to appreciate the little detail that Sam, during that infamous board meeting with Tuld, predicted they'd end up at .65 and that is exactly how things ended up? This movie is so incredibly well written.
honestly most people in these sorts of positions know exactly what will happen because they not only know the situation, but the people on the other end of the phone - you don't work 34 years without getting experience.
I love how Sam called it in the executive meeting, that by 1 PM they'd be selling 65 on the dollar if they were lucky which is exactly what Will had to push for on the last trade.
Two negotiation tactics that weren’t mentioned: Smart to show the size of the trade in the screen, rather than say it out loud. This keeps it a low profile. Smart to negotiate, even if you would sell it for almost nothing. This way, the buyer thinks he got something good
Negotiating is just smart in general. Ask high with some cushion to negotiate because the buyer will offer low, also with room to negotiate, and they each try to weasel their way to the middle in a way that will favor themselves more. If you ask in that middle area, the buyer will still offer low and then you've got nowhere to go without losing more than you have to.
To add to the horror here, remember that every bit of "risk" bought needs to be kept on a firm's books for 'x' amount of time before it can be sold again, so they couldn't just immediately dump it on someone else.
The people portrayed in this movie are pretty damn good at maths, is this how traders actually are? Will figured out .35*375=131 in like 2 seconds, without a calculator I presume.
It just stylised in the film. Real traders are generally quite good at mental math though, they would probably just divide 375 by 3, add a few mil to make up the 0.02, and get 130 mil.
pretty much, however not many trades are done via phone nowadays. They all have a bloomberg in the movie, hence trades are done via IB chat and BBG trading functionalities (FIET, EMS etc)
Authur Pendragon You seriously can't do this simple arithmetic calculation in your mind?? It's really simple, it's roughly 1/3 of the total (125) plus 1/7 of the result of the first operation, that brings you to slightly above 130 which is by guess 131/132.
And all in one night, and sold their entire MBS position in half a day, lol. John Told was right, he will come out of this making an absolute killing .
"Fuck you, you limey bastard." Love that line. And I'm a limey. I worked in that industry for many years, and this film really captures what the culture was actually like. Definitely worked with all of those personalities, and many more besides (a few were far more ruthless and quietly sociopathic than anyone shown here).
One could argue that the leftover animosity between them could've been from a prior trade that ended poorly for the DB trader, but to me it totally reeks of something along the lines of "Will banged his wife".
Last thing the DB trader says is “Word is out. I’m hanging up.” This definitely wasn’t about some prior shit between them. It was about Will’s firm dumping garbage. The DB guy clearly knew - or was ordered- to have nothing to do with it. Also, as Sam says earlier in the film, unloading that much MBS at a loss in one day will destroy the market. Some of the firms at least would have realized that by buying at such a discount they would be damaging the value of their own MBS assets.
“My loss is your gain.”
You have now gained my loss.
That’s a powerful piece of word tract
haha literally make sense
That´s savage.
It's pretty smart, he's letting him know it's a pile of shit that he needs to get rid of and is happy to sell cheap, but the other guy can sell it on at a more normal price to someone who doesn't know.
Damn nice one
Will : literally sitting in that meeting with the CEO
also Will : You think they tell me anything?
Ignorance is his ammunition in the trade conversations.
@@a_velis well said
He doesn't say "they don't tell me anything" (definitive statement) he merely leaves an open-ended question. He MISLEADS... but does NOT lie.
Yeah, they told you to sell off on purpose so they could hit reset with the Fed
@@darthkek1953 snake 😂
That awkward moment on the Titanic when everyone's still listening the music and you're quietly lowering an empty life-boat...
"And the band was playing as the ship went down"
Summed it up nicely
The best analogy ever.
I laughed so hard
@@suprcrzy about that, I always wonder why everyone keeps mentioning about the band playing till the end, but nobody's mentioning the engineers that stays behind trying to keep the lights on as long as possible to ensure as many people as possible could flee
I like how throughout the movie, you can’t quite tell why Will is the head of trading. Then you see this scene.
Indeed, these phone calls really accentuates his quickness, confidence and ruthlessness, standing apart from his otherwise everyday good buddy persona.
I had watched the movie long time ago and at that time I didn't realize it was Will (The person who's speaking on the phone) speaking the whole time.
@@robrick9361 tell that to the investors of Dogecoin ;-)
Indeed, one of Paul Bettany’s best roles
Always why the Quants and the geniuses will always be backend and make decent money but not like the sales guys! They fucken ruthless!
"Do you care?"
"No, not really"
Sums up the whole crisis.
Because she will dump on someome else.
"Paulson and Bernanke just left the White House - there's going to be a bailout... They weren't being stupid, they just didn't care." - The Big Short
"You're a friend, so I'm coming to you first."
In capitalism bread waits for people, in communism people wait for bread.
In capitalism, people rip people off financially. In communism, people murder each other for saying something wrong.
Dunno. Pseudo-capitalism/Communism hasn't collapsed on the Chinese yet.
The first people they go to get fucked the most
It did work so well, that in most cases capitalism used military force to stop it.
I could listen to Paul Bettany selling junk all day long.
I'd rather listen to him spouting out diagnostics on palladium-based power reactors, but this is good, too!
"Listen, you're a friend so I'm coming to you first; Jennifer is making me clean out the garage and I'm getting rid of my old Bowflex that's missing a few weights and pieces so today it looks like my loss is your gain. What do you say at $80?"
He had good training in A Knight's Tale for this role!
His best role was getting Jennifer Connelly
His best role was getting Jennifer Connelly.
“It might be .55 at 5.”
Savage counter to the hard sell.
"It might be .55 in 5" as in he may lower his offer in 5 minutes.
Mister Burkes that’s a bid, not an offer.
@@jasonli7960 Too funny, but true. You Offer to sell, and Bid to buy. Seems easy, but the lingo isn't.
Well alright then stay on the line!
@@jasonli7960 Lol whatever dude. And when you bid on a house what do you say? You say you make the seller an offer. Technically yes you are still bidding but who cares man get outside, if you were half as good as slamming pussy as you are with vocabulary you wouldn't be on youtube calling people out on technicalities LMFAO.
Dear Deutsche Bank, you should *not* advertise before this video. :-)
Citibank, Merrill Lynch, Deutsche etc. were all in it...
As I recall, in the clip, Deutsche's trader is the only one who doesn't buy the crap Will's selling. They come off as the smart ones.
@@griffithchung9377 In the big short, Greg Lippmann from deutsche shorted the MBS these guys are dumping. Seems consistent enough.
Deutsche Bank are the only ones not buying in this clip :)
ha ha
I like how this scene shows that even though the firm was clearly taking advantage of the buyers, the buyers were also partially culpable. Despite having some misgivings about what was going on, they were still happy to make the trade if the price was good enough.
Fear and greed on a balance beam, and all that.
Well dude a financial company has a fiduciary responsibility by law... So they have to sell the assets. Otherwise they would could be sued or worse.
That's what this moviefaila to explain but the movie never explains anything.
The movie only explains that one dude found something.
Lol one manager said be careful... So overdramatic and nof realistic.
When you see selloffs, people are buying those assets.
The guy that bought in the 60% range might have ended up turning that for a profit. If his trading firm didn't collapse from their own negative weight. Afterall, the u.s. taxpayers made money from the TARP bailout. Sure, the losers who stood outside at Occupy Wall Street never mentioned that, probably because they were too dense to know.. Things are grey and in the grey can be both good and bad.
@The re- they don't cut to the state attorney general office switchboard either! Lol.
that’s the buyers job as market makers. they’re just looking to flatten their risk or flip it anyway. so the buyers in this scene may not have gotten stuck with it.
@@joelwillems4081 He could even have sold them the next day for 70 cents on the dollar he still would've made almost $20 million on the trade.
"Deutsche?"
"It's Will Emerson...."
"FUCK YOU!!!.......YOU LIMEY BAAASTARD!!!!!!" LMAO
CLASSIC!!!!!!
"That's a 131m $ loss on a single trade." That was your pension, your kids college fund and your entire town.
Don't you love how all the bad guys on Wall Street were portrayed in this Hollywood production by gentiles, when we know full well who runs the banks. This film was about reshaping the narrative for damage control, and when the 1% movement started they made sure to use the media control to ensure that 99% was broken up into all the demographics fighting with one another.
@@BoopSnoot Lol based
@@BoopSnoot everything you dipshits say about Jews applies to WASPs just the same, with the caveat that WASPs weren't forced by their rulers to become merchants and bankers for hundreds of years.
No it wasn't
@@billklaxx19827 racism is based? Lol ok dude
Paul Bettany really knocked it out of the park with this role. He also has the single best monologue of the entire movie (speaking about the 'Live like Kings' monologue).
Jeremy Irons has the best dialogue & delivery in the movie
The "fuck normal people" is fantastic.
@@OldManNutcakez That's a good claim.
A I know about Paul Bettany is that I have had a crush on his wife for decades...
I worked with city traders for many years and Paul Bettany played this perfectly, I knew plenty of guys just like this character. I also knew plenty of city senior management and Jeremy Irons played his role perfectly too.
Sam's prediction of how the day went was pretty damn accurate. He said they'd be selling at 65 cents on the dollar by 2 PM, and that's the price Will's 3 PM trade filled at.
Its a movie which comes with a script?
Wasn't a real prediction lol.
@@charliedominguez8069 A movie that's based off of real life events.
@@BrianHSC Sam was the one who said to bring the buyer up to 65 😂
Not that impressive considering Sam had the final say on all priced trades. Idiot.
They were selling to willing buyers at Current Fair Market Price , so that THEY MAY SURVIVE !
Powerful line.
Jeremy Irons always told them to be prepared for the coup of the century
lewl ok
@Stephen Ward maybe he knew bailouts would come if things got too dire?
@Stephen Ward he meant that the only way Tuld would pull the trigger on a fire sale like this that would torpedo the company's profits AND (more importantly) their reputation and connection on the street was if he knew something that Sam didn't (like the bail out packages that came, super supportive Federal Reserve etc...). That's basically why in their 1:1 after the fire sale Tuld basically says there's a ton of money to be made following this, just as there had been in every prior financial shock. And he was right. 2009 onward markets across the board delivered very strong returns.
This is some incredible voice acting right here
That why he was awesome as Jarvis
Since most of us only know him as Jarvis, it's strange to see that voice coming out of a person's mouth. It just doesn't feel like it should belong to a real person.
we're fill or kill at 65 -- It's Filled.
Are you with me on this?
I had a hard time trying to guess if Paul Bettany’s character was British or not since his accent slips out
Imagine paying 65 cents on the dollar and thinking "holy smokes I landed a hell of a deal" only to find out next morning that it's now worth less than 5 cents. Jesus christ! Don't even want to imagine that feeling.
"These Bs, dog shit! triple Bs, dog shit! No income verification, Dog shit! Then this whole thing comes crumbling down!!"
@@d33763 I’m jacked! I’m jacked to the tits!
@@d33763 What's that?
@@painiscupcake5433 a quote from ‘Big Short’, another movie on the crisis
@@sauluxville I know. Try again.
I love this scene....not destroying people life's...but art of the sale .... "my loss is your gain"....what great salesman 👨💼
Yeah, real believable line there; nobody EVER saw THAT coming! He won over the buyer by sheer originality!
Mr. Ted I doubt his counterparts cared much about what he was saying, for them it was about the price. Selling off some assets isn't that out of the ordinary so he didn't have that much convincing to do. This is more evident in the last bit, where they drop all the small talk and get right to the price.
Mr. Ted does everyone make the trades via Bloomberg these days or do any of them get on the phone once in a while?
@@Rheinmeister09 depends on the size - evne in 2008 they would push trades through terminals but use the phones to pitch it (as you can see)
@@ParabolicGains I guess when I was watching the most recent season of Billions when Axe Capital was hacked and they had to get out burner phones to make the trades, the young guys didn't know how to do it. Axe and Wags had to show them how it was done. It made me wonder how much anyone gets on the phone anymore.
"Now you're a friendly so I come to you first."
That's savage.
This movie and Big Short should be mandatory viewing in every high school in the nation.
You think high school kids would understand it ? Most of them only learned to use tik tok 😂
@@likeicare300 no worries, the vast majority of adults don't get it either so let's see if at least this next generation is salvageable
Which nation are you referring to?
Probably the United States. But it could also mean every nation in the world
Instead they get Schindler's List. No education about the Communist Revolution in history class either. Always, the Germans bad, the Germans bad.
That reminded me of an old joke: A boy, whose name was Bernie, moved to the country and bought a donkey from an old farmer for $100. The farmer promised to bring the donkey over the next day. The next day the farmer drove to the farm and said, "Sorry boy, I have bad news for you. The donkey is dead." Bernie replied, "All right, give me my money back." The farmer shrugged: "Can't do it. I've already spent the money." Then Bernie: "OK, just unload the donkey." The old farmer asks: "What are you doing with that?" Bernie: "I'll give it away in a lottery." Farmer: "Nonsense, you can't give away a dead donkey." Bernie: "Of course I can. I just don't tell anyone that he's dead." A month later, the old man meets Bernie again and asks him:
"How did that go with the dead donkey?" Bernie: "I raffled it off. I sold 500 tickets at $2 each and made a profit of $998, which isn't in the books. The loss of $100 for a dead donkey is in there, though." Farmer: "Has nobody complained?" Bernie: "Sure, the guy who won the donkey. So I gave him his $2 back."
Tldr.
Love this.
@@_RDMPTN You should try.
@Kit Taylor
I don't get why people treat a CZcams comment a paragraph long as if it were the same as a 15,000 word thesis ...
@@_RDMPTN The fact you're not able to read a paragraph because it's to long is frightening. I can already tell you're American.
The way Spacey says I understand gives me chills. Just the ruthlessness of it.
because he knows they're only going to lose 125 million on that trade, not 375 million if they keep it.
Same phrase and context in which Tuld says to him as well.
"I understand."
"Do you?"
Ironically that's exactly what Kevin Spacy told Jeremy Irons, "and by 3pm you'll be selling at 65 cents on the dollar IF you're lucky"
@@ssgpentland8241 The film is full of little gems like this.
I love the “my loss is your gain” line
I’ve used it when I sell stuff on eBay 🤣
it's so easy to get mixed up though, like "today your loss is my gain! wait.." *customer gone*
Whenever I hear that line or read it, I'm out
@@leizdutra9377 hopefully you're not a trader then lol
Ahh yes the crucial trade of 14$ crap ipod
Lol!!
margin call is the most underrated film in movie history, period.
Peyton Manning Nationwide ad right before the video, and a Vols logo is top comment. Illuminati confirmed.
Rubbish
@@ilovebrandnewcarpets Ha ha ha ha ha - naive commenter confirmed.
ТурбоТОП good movie ..glad UT picked up a W today
Take a breath.
It's very good.
When I first saw this movie I hardly understood a damn thing they were talking about, just knew it was a really good script. Now that I'm more educated on the subject I see the brilliance of it. The writer just decides to put you straight into this world, with all its jargon, and isn't interested in explaining it to the viewer (like the big short or too big to fail do) because the characters don't need it explained to them.
Perhaps they wanted you to make the effort to research so you'd learn and build a new perspective on what happened. Left to our own devices, most of us wouldn't even bother and would just stop watching. Which is a shame because this is a brilliant movie.
"All its jargon?" You mean worn-out lines like "My loss is your gain...."? That's the most effective pitch a trader making six figures plus bonus could come up with that morning? Yeah, the trading floor manager really lit a fire under their asses, eh?
@@russg1801 You either haven't watched the movie or you're being obtuse, so shut up. OP is clearly referring to the rest of the film, for example where they're explaining to the executives what went wrong.
Its not a really good script if you can't understand a damned thing, you stupid fuck.
What are you talking about? The Big Short was universally praised for breaking down the housing market crash in layman's terms. They even brought in Margot Robbie, Anthony Bourdain, and Selena Gomez to break it down for you!
"Just a little Spring cleaning." lol
well I thought it was funny
Brian Carpenter
It is funny (:
@@briancarpenter6413 For the May Queen !!! 😁🤣
words you never want to hear in the world of Finance
technically the truth, they simply spring cleaned all of their assets lmao
"You're a FRIENDLY so I'm coming to you first!!
"Fuck you! You limey bastard"
Haha so good
Being first definitely helps in this scenario since you can flip it if you have enough wiggle room early. Later in the day obviously it looks a lot worse once word gets out
@@user-gc9qk7fo1w True enough considering everything and his orders from his boss going to those first few people are his actual friends in the trading world. Since they can still survive the hit and not be ruined potentially.
Ex-WS soldier here; including being a market maker in fixed income. This is the best financial movie I've seen so far. The script and characters are so real.
100% correct.
So with today’s conditions do you see a repeat of 08 or something worse?
@@Eddie_3607 I see something different. More like 79-81. Negative real borrowing cost encourages people to borrow. Biggest borrowers are governments, except this time I don't see a Paul Voelker on the horizon for now anyway.
@@arkrazor354 go long on physical Silver
17.3 Billion ozt in global reserve, 2.4 mill used every day, natural deposits almost used up, 75% of production inelastic (byproduct of other mining), ~10 years left at current usage (which will increase) besides hedge against infl., massive price discovery coming soon. paper futures to physical ratio is 352:1. dollar to physical ratio $2,547:1 ozt
once price is discovered it will jump to $12,500 : 1 ozt in 2022 dollars. thank me later. tell your friends and family.
@@arkrazor354 Which will of course draaaag it all out rather than just ripping off the bandaid?
If he told the truth "My loss is your ruin"
propjam2 and then no one would buy
Haha that's awesome
the greed in Alexis' voice, in just the one word... "Done."
And next day Alexis was done
Someone broke it down based on the times, how much he was selling, times 50 for the number of brokers and estimated the company lost $27 billion in about 4 hours. If they hadn't the loss would've been upwards of $800 billion.
wow
The 800 billion figure is based on the entire Wall Street, LB lost was 3.9 billion and investors ran for the door withdrawing $196b that left it with 1b and it filed for Bankruptcy shortly after.
@@davidmoss2576 damn epic. One of worst time in our recent lives but how they handled it…I don’t want to say it was right call but if I was there, I would have made same decision.
@@davidmoss2576 what are you talking about?
Someone.. lol 🤣
Somebody trying to sell you something where they will take over a hundred million loss. It might be time to question that purchase. They aren't selling it out of the kindness of their heart.
"If you want a friend, get a dog."
The person buying doesn't know how much the person selling is losing.
Great point.
with 65 cents on the dollar and knowledge ofthe total price.. i think he might be able to do the math...
He claims that he is being forced to sell because of risk management regulations, so he'd be forced to take the loss. Thats why the buyers believed him
For those of you who do not understand what is going on, They are basically selling music albums to deaf people
GoonaTV so you’re clearly another one of those people that has no idea what is happening then?
Carl Sagan I laughed when I read his comment. I was confused but then I remembered
nice one brutha!
LOL
Not quite. The people he's selling to in this scene buy and sell the exact same "shit" on a daily basis. They're his peers, not victims. His company is simply the first to recognize it for it is and do something about it.
Changes his tone with each prospect to match their demeanor. This is why sales is the highest (and lowest) paying profession that can never be automated at the high levels. It can be a performance and an art.
This post definitely didn't age well now that ChatGPT is out lmao.
@@blaxicanx What do you mean? Nobody is going to buy a luxury yacht or anything like that because of some chatgpt text. The man's comment is still perfectly applicable.
@@blaxicanx the fk are you talking about lmao
@@emerald39 I disagree. In 10-20 years time, AI will be sophisicated enough to evaluate risk vs. reward better than humans and will be programmed accordingly to make purchases on its own for financial services companies.
@@asuk218ablenot even years. 2 months and go check out the presentation of GPT-o. The tone, the language, the intonation of GPT is better than mine :)
Like a lot of people I came across this movie by accident one night at home watching television. Now watched it four or five times! Just a incredible storyline with incredible acting by most in the movie. A movie from the reality of 2008.
They'll be making another one in 2024, stay tuned.
The Big Short is fantastic too. Alas nothing was learnt from the 2008 collapse and I fear another one is headed our way soon, if not already.
@@mlc4495 No one went to jail and the banks got subsidies... soo yeah the criminals just started all over again.
@@mlc4495 we're already there. Gas knocking on 6.50 a gallon here. Diesel near 7. No food in the stores to buy. Stores closed on both sides of the road everywhere you go. The only thing movies like this miss... is the horror of us working class starving to death in the south because our very small amount of money is no longer worth anything.
@@PwnyDwn Currency. Your very small amount of currency is no longer worth anything. Only gold and silver are money.
czcams.com/video/DyV0OfU3-FU/video.html
I am guessing Emerson got his 1.4 million dollar bonus lol
Sodiumreactor He didn’t. He agreed to an 85 cents on a dollars sale before lunch. He kissed that bonus goodbye. However, I think that he knew that no one could get the bonus anyways. He just did his job.
@@kanemauricezhu6655 it doesnt matter what the price was it mattered how much of it they moved
I am not sure why you think the price had anything to do with the bonus. They said sell the stock. There was no price specified.
2.7 combining the floor bonus
I think price only mattered when it hits south of 65. As Sam said in the meeting and their conversation right before the last transaction.
So they got their bonus since the primary objective is to dump all toxic assets by COB.
But we all know what happened next after they got their bonus
"I don't cheat," says Tuld in the Sr. Partners meeting. I've seen a lot of mockery of that line. This scene shows he's not cheating; he is, as he says, selling to willing buyers. It's not cheating BY THE RULES OF THE GAME HE IS PLAYING. Every one of the traders answering the phones here works for somebody like Tuld, and they all are playing according to the rules. Arguably unethical, in its way, but not cheating, and nothing any of these guys wouldn't be doing in the same position. They all in fact suspect something's fishy, but they play anyway. According to the rules.
@Jimmy Two Times they wouldn't if US government haven't been listening to BlackRock executives (who are made up of former government officials btw) that are managing and responsible for those firms/banks and telling US govt "we gotta bail 'em out"
And even Tuld and his people have know that the game is souring for a year or two. They were just making too much money to care.
Cheating would be scamming or forcing them to take it.
They are offering and they arent even asking why they would sell it. Its like overfeeding a shark with raw meet until he cant move and drown...
yep, so does the guy selling you apples or socks or your house...it's business and we either play the game or we don't.
@Jimmy Two Times "fuck normal people"
One of the greatest movies in the last 30 years everybody in this film did a great job portraying their characters
why does everyone in CZcams comments have to exaggerate so hard every time?
"This is the best XY i have seen in MY LIFE!!" etc.
Is this a decent movie? Yes
But its definitly NOT one of THE BEST in the last 30(!!) years...
Its not even one of the best of 2011 where movies like Drive and The Artist came out.
7.1/10 on IMDb btw.
@@FckPooTN
Very good comment. Also, CZcamsrs seem infatuated with the word "underrated". Every movie, actor, singer, guitarist, drummer etc etc is "criminally UNDERrated".
I read once where a guy said that "Jimmy Page was an underrated guitarist"... and the dunce was NOT just joking.
@@donarthiazi2443 So true man!
Read that all the time. I think the reason why everyone saying that and everyone liking it is:
When you say someone is "underrated" that makes YOU the cool expert who see the "true" potential/rating in a person while everyone else is a pleb because they "rate" him wrong/UNDER-rate him.
And everyone who like that comment can feel special too.
"Yay! I also like Denis Villeneuve hihi! I agree, he is CRIMINALLY UNDERRATED!!"
@@donarthiazi2443 just came to say that I’ve found the first positive public discourse in a comment section you two have done it
Totally under-rated as a film - compelling - great acting by great actors - totally believable because it's based on true events.
That *does* tend to up the credibility factor, don't it?
No its not. No firm cleared their decks at the expnse of others. Never happened. Stop being so gullible.
@@motley331 like what? This comment section is just people who THINK they have a grasp on the financial happenings of 2008
@@dio5731 - I do.... I was part of it.
@@motley331 There is a scene in the Big Short where many of the players basically stall while they secure net short positions themselves.
"Today's moving day!"
No truer words were spoken on that day.
"You think they tell me anything?" Genius tactic
"Are you with me on this?"
the opening and closing bell is incredibly ominous in this scene. i cant unhear it in real life
Yeah, i always felt like this movie had such an eerie and unsettling tone throughout that really fit the narrative well.
Ringing the bell before the fight.
This was a very good film and if you watch this, The Big Short and Too Big to Fail you can get an excellent idea as to how it all fell apart in 2008. Each film focuses on different areas of the collapse. Maybe one of the best parts of this film probably went unnoticed by many and it's the fact that Jeremy Irons' character was correct when he said it's better to be first. When he says they have to dump it all Kevin Spacey's character objects because it means selling the worthless investments to their peers, which he fears will be remembered and eventually come back to them in spades but the truth is those who will get burned won't be around to exact revenge and if there is one thing Wall Street respects it's the ability to make money and survive. Those who get burned will perish and when the dust settles and profits return the next generation will work for and/or respect the fact that Irons' character made the smart choice and it paid off.
i loved the big short , so i added Too Big to Fail and margin call to my watch list's for this weekend's movies , thanks for the tips
It is not only that. Kevin Spacey's character understands that if they do it, they pull the trigger that kills the market. Even if it would have survived otherwise. But of course, we know today it was the right call
@@elagrion Jeremy Ironside's character said you can be first, smarter or cheat. And he doesn't cheat. Some other firm would have been first if they weren't.
Too big to fail is absolutely pathetic compared to the other two
So true! And then sadly we the taxpayers were called on to bailout out these failing corporations. Doesn't sound like true Capitalism to me.
One of the things that I really enjoyed about the film was it showed well how behind the curtains, the C-suite/VP level is a very different breed than the lower level brass and aren’t afraid to speak their minds, The way Will gets mad at Sam on the phone encapsulates this so well. There are other examples of this in the film.
What a movie. One of my all time favs. The senior partners meeting is one of the best scenes of all time.
"Listen, I just got the tap on my shoulder"
Yeah I can confirm that everyone in finance jokes about (but also does fear) the dreaded tap on the shoulder ! 🤣
@@Sharky165 what's the tap on the shoulder?
@@timnergaard3831 Presumably it means the boss taps you on the shoulder and hands you a pile of shit to get rid of.
@@gavpowell1981 It more commonly means that you're being binned.
@@g13flat There was an implication it was something specific to the finance world though.
CZcams algorithm, start recommending this video ASAP. Time is of the essence.
"Hey, Lawrence, we're fill or kill at 65."
I have been watching this scene for years and never could understand the expression he uses here
Thank you!!! (not english speaking native)
"Fill or Kill" means: Buy at the that exact price (Fill), or back out of the deal (Kill)
It's a common trader phrase that means all or nothing. The entire order must be "filled" or you "kill" the deal. "Fill or kill at 65" means fill the entire order at $0.65 on the dollar or no deal at all.
"Done"
FoK is *not* AoN.
FoK has to fill immediately once you press the trade.
AoN means the order can still be queued, it just has to fill for the entire quantity of the trade.
If you had a warehouse full of bananas and they're turning brown, what would you rather get for them, 15 cents a lb, or get STUCK with them and throw them in the trash?
And, THAT is why his boss approved the lower price.
When you have brown bananas, it's time to make banana bread!
Thanks for this, I was looking for an easy way to explain this to friends without the technical stuff.
But it wasn't just brown bananas, it was poisonous, and they're poisoning the people who bought it
@@fitrianhidayat The people who bought it had to have known that those issues might not be as fruitful as they were seeing. By 3:04, in the trading world, the globe has been circumnavigated multiple times
The boss said yes because the bananas were mostly brown at that time and worth nothing. It’s just that the rest of the market didn’t know it wasn’t worth anything.
"Haha well alright then stay on the line!"
"Sam pick up the phone. SAM GET ON THE LINE!"
I love the small change between these two lines. He's all salesman and cool as a cucumber with the other trader, but you can feel the stress as soon as he checks the trade with Sam as he pushes so urgently for him to pick up. Brilliant acting!!
Yea when someone tells you they'll be paying 8% less in 5 minutes, of course you've gotta play it cool but especially at that level of money, the 8% meaning $30 mil difference is crazy. And of course through this he probably realizes the reverse, that despite how much he was getting paid, he was making money for the company hand over fist when things were good to be able to withstand these kinds of losses on these trades.
I love how Deutsche bails but the closing trade is with Merrill who ended up getting absorbed by BoA … kinda interesting quirk to the film. FOK at 65…. Absolute balls of steel
"Hit it"
+Edmund B.
That's what your mom told me
Edmund B. ,,,,, LOVE IT
“…Sam get on the line!” 1:45 The pressure is palpable.
This is sales 101. The moment you hear objection or suspicion at 0:55. You press the attack and close the deal. This is how shark salesman work their deals.
So suspenseful, the whole 2nd act builds to this scene and if traders like Will they can pull it off. And in 2 minutes it’s settled.
Watch, watch and watch again. Raw, tight, tense & well scored - a great scene. All with the actor's voices over a generic Wall Street backdrop.
In 2007 the firm handling my retirement accounts had purchased several of these financial tranches. I had been interested in the housing mortgage market for some time, and saw that too many houses were being sold to too many people who could not possibly afford the mortgages. The housing market was a huge bubble, and I was lucky enough to see that this bubble would soon burst and all kinds of nastiness on the market, and severely affect, and even bankrupt a lot of people's retirement accounts. I was lucky, on January 3 of 2008 I had my financial management company sell everything.
Good for you. I hope you took advantage of the crash to buy at lower prices.
bulllllllll shit lmao. GTFOH with your nonsense
I was in las vegas working building construction. We '"construction workers" knew about the housing downturn Summer of 2006. Just glad I didn't buy a sub prime home. pretty much allowed me to.... I don't know.... not be worse off than losing everything? ~Brian
This is so fucking beautifully put together, the music, shots, and script are just perfect. So fucking eerie to think this actually was happening and it was a small part of a bigger problem that ruined hundreds of thousands of lives. It changed EVERYONE's life. "I understand... Hit it." & "It's filled" followed by the closing bell, are my favorite lines of all time. I can watch movies like this all fucking day.
I rewatch this scene over and over and over again even though I have no clue or interest in economics. That's art.
this scene is worth the entire movie.
I realized the term 'fire sale' is sometimes misunderstood... the original meaning is selling all goods present in a depot that is on fire already and it is impossible to extinguish it. This is a logical decision and there is nothing bad about it.
During a fire sale if you sell too slowly the flames of the burning building will destroy the valuable goods. So you must be quick enough, selling them quicker than the spreading flames destroy them, reducing the risk of a complete loss.
A more common less grave situation is the closing out sale. At the end of a season you want to get rid of 'old' goods and sell them at least with zero loss to make room for the new season's goods. But by keeping those goods you would realize a far greater loss... maybe those goods might even become worthless (e.g. food products like grapes). Or in this case: mortages 😉
What makes this Operation Firesale so unique is that all the depots of the direct competitors buying and selling the same goods were burning as well but they did not know it yet; the firealarms were not ringing yet but it was just a matter of time.
They're not even calling the fire fighters cuz they know the fire fighters won't be able to put this out. So they're selling their sht to others in the same warehouse while running for the doors.
Love the analysis. Give this one a medal 👍
Not to be picky, but I'm pretty sure the origin of the phrase "fire sale" was the sale of good that had been damaged by a fire at a deep discount. Not wasting time selling things that might catch fire at any moment.
They all knew by the end of day.
lol this isn't even remotely true, but it's really funny so I'm going to start saying it too.
"You're a friendly so I come to you first." - I'll run when a salesman says this to me.
The only scene in the entire movie that actually mentions the underlying asset being traded and it uses terminology that only people familiar with mortgage backed securities would know.
Zachary Quinto says in the meeting with Jeremy Irons that “these are essentially just mortgages,” they use the acronym “MBS” at least a few times, and Demi Moore says in the earlier meeting that to value the assets without an active market “you'd have to go block by block” - but yes overall it's a smart choice by the screenwriter to treat the underlying asset as basically irrelevant to the plot, underscoring Irons' point to Spacey that the constant cycle of speculative bubbles bursting and leading to economic recessions is an unavoidable feature of capitalism.
@@willg-r3269
Can we stop telling lies by conflating utterly deregulated republicanism with capitalism? Thanks?
Notice how many bribes were needed to get Bush into office so he could cancel Clinton's regulations against exactly there sort of bubbles.
@@nvelsen1975 Not to burst your bubble or anything (lol) but financial deregulation in the US has been an extremely bipartisan project, and many of the most important thrusts (particularly the Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999, widely known for tearing down the Glass-Steagall “firewall” between commercial banks and investment banks) took place during Clinton's presidency.
Also, the conversation I'm referring to between Irons and Spacey is the one where Irons rattles off the years of major economic bubbles/downturns going back as far as the 17th century, and it's extremely clear that he's talking about the history of capitalism per se, not just a particular “version” of capitalism, let alone a version whose boundaries are defined by the mindless horse blinders of mainstream US electoral partisanship.
@@willg-r3269
Yes I'm aware that Republicans lie and claim Glass-Steagal proves it was all those evil evil demonic Demoncrats who did it.
We were discussing your incorrect use of terminology however.
@@nvelsen1975 So you're saying that members of the US Republican Party secretly gained access to a time machine, traveled back in time hundreds of years before the Republican Party even existed, and engineered the creation of global capitalism as a system inherently prone to speculative financial bubbles? Your version of world history sounds like a truly fascinating narrative, please tell me more!
If you want a serious answer, both major political parties in the US are gangs of irredeemable crooks who collaborated in fully bipartisan fashion to help bring about the financial crisis depicted in this movie, and I have no interest in trying to smear lipstick on either one of those pigs in orderto shift the blame entirely onto the other.
I bet Lawrence actually did pretty well in the long run. 65 cents on the dollar of 30 year mortgages. Even the worst class of mortgages (the subprime ARMs) were defaulting at 40% in 2009. Plus Lawrence probably got some government money for holding them. Seems like a winnable trade.
The bond would have still been a huge loss. He got a discounted price but within a few months that bond would be entirely worthless.
It's not like he could hold onto them. Either he would find another buyer that day or take a huge loss.
Did the traders make the 93% quota and get the bonuses? I don't recall if they said.
@@moeball740 Dude it was a MOVIE.
@@moeball740 It's implied that they did.
They make Gordon gecko seem like mother Theresa
Eh... not sure your anology makes sense. You do know that Mother Theresa was a tyrant and a sadist?
worked in a first tier wall street bank during those times, on the capital market trading floor. how a trade goes down especially for mbs/cdos are pretty similar but slower since traders will need to run the numbers, and the pricing for a what i assume triple a rated securities at that day of the trade (when they try to unload before everyone finds out) is not negotiate at single digit percentage level more like 1/100 percentage level. in real life these trade probably took anywhere from 5min to a few hours.
This is such an amazing film! Criminally underated!
It's a civil matter.
While everyone is talking about how the buyers of the toxic assets got screwed, it's not that simple. Most of the toxic assets paid off and there was a lot of profit made from the depths of the crisis to the recovery. The problem was they were difficult to value and became illiquid. In the crisis there was no market, no price, and therefore no value, but once the market recovered, most were valuable. Just not as valuable as originally expected.
True, they sold it as it already breach their projected volatility and just to be safe sold it as a loss but it doesn't mean it wouldn't be a gain in the future. Market tend to do a cycle, actually the buyers were lucky as the price was too low already. It could go down further than projected but compare it to the actual market value, its still cheap and still be a gain remember that mortgages and bonds matures.
So the guy in the end who buys the last stuff up for the cheapest actually won if he kept his cool until the recovery?
Yes, no, and maybe. Always it depends on the cost, but yeah, if the firm itself didn't go under they stood to gain a profit when the market returned.
Everything is liquid if the price is low enough!
@@wronggg Presumably, if the seller pays the buyer to purchase, this must be so. But that's stretching the definition of price a bit.
Such a haunting scene. Knowing what they're doing with the addition of the bells and music makes this great.
All voice over and effective as hell -- fucking chilling. Bettany is terrific: e.g., the rhyming slang to the first customer, er, sucker. How an entire economy comes crashing down and people lose their homes in two minutes.
By the end of one two-minute shot, it's 65 cents on the dollar. Welcome to the connected world.
People were not losing their homes because of this....this was happening because people were losing their homes.
@@tendrams Ya got that right.
People bought beyond their means thinking they could always finance the debt higher.
That is being a fool.
You realize most people on the floor are busting ass to move $1M trades while Will Emerson (Paul Bettany) is moving $100M+ in single trade to City, Deutsche, Merrill, Trading, etc.
That is the reason why he is the head of trading.
Thats why he makes the "big bucks".
"They don't tell me anything" 😂
It's like a viral outbreak on the monetary level. And leading to the economic downfall of 07-08.
Amazing movie that people who talk about the economy should watch and re-watch
2007-08 was a quake that governments quelled by throwing a lot of printed money at it like a giant quantatively-eased sticking plaster.
We kicked the can down the road by about a decade and we're probably just about to catch up to that can again except this time around there's no more leeway left to use as a sticking plaster.. lockdowns are part of the fake economic collapse being engineered to cover up the real reasons for outright financial and monetary collapse behind the scenes.
Watch the big short then this one after to get the full scope of that crisis
@@DM-uz7lf I tell people that The Big Short is the best fucking horror movie that I've ever seen.
my heart rate is not good after watching this... WOW great story telling
"You're a friendly, so I come to you first." Slick.
I like that everyone gets to go home at
3.59 pm on Wallstreet.
As a former telemarketer I could listen to hours of this 😜
It’s not safe to assume that the last buyer didn’t get stuck holding the bag. As they could have flipped it to another buyer real quick for a % mark up. If he think he got a deal at 65%, maybe he sold to next bank for 5% more with them thinking they got a deal as well. It could continue to repeat until someone gets stuck with it
Can we take a second to appreciate the little detail that Sam, during that infamous board meeting with Tuld, predicted they'd end up at .65 and that is exactly how things ended up? This movie is so incredibly well written.
honestly most people in these sorts of positions know exactly what will happen because they not only know the situation, but the people on the other end of the phone - you don't work 34 years without getting experience.
I love how Sam called it in the executive meeting, that by 1 PM they'd be selling 65 on the dollar if they were lucky which is exactly what Will had to push for on the last trade.
It is quite amazing how that works out when they're reading from a script.
"You're a friendly so I'm coming to you first."
Geeze I'd hate to see how he treats his enemies
Exactly the same - true trader
Two negotiation tactics that weren’t mentioned:
Smart to show the size of the trade in the screen, rather than say it out loud. This keeps it a low profile.
Smart to negotiate, even if you would sell it for almost nothing. This way, the buyer thinks he got something good
Negotiating is just smart in general. Ask high with some cushion to negotiate because the buyer will offer low, also with room to negotiate, and they each try to weasel their way to the middle in a way that will favor themselves more. If you ask in that middle area, the buyer will still offer low and then you've got nowhere to go without losing more than you have to.
I've been watching the Big Short over and over and nobody told me this movie existed!
Big Short. Margin Call. Too Big To Fail. All worth watching. Oh and make sure to also check out Wall Street from 1987 :)
..well looks like you got a great looking portfolio goin for you here..I’ll just finalize that real quick ..AAAAND ITS GONE.
What do you mean GONE ?? hahaha poor Kyle.
This is the kinda tension I want on hedgy floors when MOASS begins.
😊 apeeees lesgo
This is a perfect demonstration of the power of cinema still can achieve
65 cents on the doller is an insanely good deal for the seller. That crap was worth close to zero.
To add to the horror here, remember that every bit of "risk" bought needs to be kept on a firm's books for 'x' amount of time before it can be sold again, so they couldn't just immediately dump it on someone else.
Who else is watching this in lieu of the SVB stuff?
Will has the makings of a varsity athlete.
Will was selling webistics
Quasimodo predicted all of this
The people portrayed in this movie are pretty damn good at maths, is this how traders actually are? Will figured out .35*375=131 in like 2 seconds, without a calculator I presume.
Authur Pendragon Kevin Spacey isn't good at math
They have calcs in front of them sometimes and also terminals that do the math for them, but yes traders tend to be really really good at math.
It just stylised in the film. Real traders are generally quite good at mental math though, they would probably just divide 375 by 3, add a few mil to make up the 0.02, and get 130 mil.
pretty much, however not many trades are done via phone nowadays. They all have a bloomberg in the movie, hence trades are done via IB chat and BBG trading functionalities (FIET, EMS etc)
Authur Pendragon
You seriously can't do this simple arithmetic calculation in your mind??
It's really simple, it's roughly 1/3 of the total (125) plus 1/7 of the result of the first operation, that brings you to slightly above 130 which is by guess 131/132.
Throughout the movie the Whole firm knew what was going to Happen. Even the audience.
Except the Buyers.
Which made this Scene Epic
And all in one night, and sold their entire MBS position in half a day, lol. John Told was right, he will come out of this making an absolute killing .
OH MY GOD! WE'RE HAVING A FIRE
sale
10/10 reference
Aaaamaaazzzzing grace...
Good reference
svennie pennie LOL. who wants a banger in the mouth?
I understood that reference!
So it's a Wall Street meltdown, with almost the exact same soundtrack as the 2019 series "Chernobyl"
NICE
"Fuck you, you limey bastard."
Love that line. And I'm a limey.
I worked in that industry for many years, and this film really captures what the culture was actually like. Definitely worked with all of those personalities, and many more besides (a few were far more ruthless and quietly sociopathic than anyone shown here).
Working here on the west coast, near as I can tell New Yorkers tend to swear and smoke more, right?
One could argue that the leftover animosity between them could've been from a prior trade that ended poorly for the DB trader, but to me it totally reeks of something along the lines of "Will banged his wife".
@@sanford198 Have any stories? Always love the insight into that scene
When he says "you still angry about that?" Is he referring to a previous trade he screwed him on?
Last thing the DB trader says is “Word is out. I’m hanging up.” This definitely wasn’t about some prior shit between them. It was about Will’s firm dumping garbage. The DB guy clearly knew - or was ordered- to have nothing to do with it. Also, as Sam says earlier in the film, unloading that much MBS at a loss in one day will destroy the market. Some of the firms at least would have realized that by buying at such a discount they would be damaging the value of their own MBS assets.
It is one of the best scenes ever made. The voice and the text are gorgeous!!!
How’s the trouble & strife?
That rush.. Everytime I watch this scene..damn!
You think they tell me anything
Was part of every meeting start to end 🤣
"My loss is your -gain- even *bigger* loss." 😂
Oh fuck you I'm hanging up.
I come back to this every now and then 😂