I've been looking forward to this video for a while. Thanks for posting it. I have the carbon, and I assumed it's edge retention would be better than others. I'm glad you included fit/finish and feel in your assessment because that is why I reach for this knife so often.
Great video...Through a series of circumstances. I ended up with a 10" Damascus. Long story short, I wasn't looking for one but ended up with one. I have been very happy with it and looking to enjoy it of years to come
M D can u do a video of cutting test? Of the carbon kramer pr a beautiful video only to aprreciate in all details because there is not to much video of that knife
Thanks to you I changed completely my approach to sharpening knives and which knives to acquire. I would love to get my hands on a Bob Kramer knife (any size) so if you are going to give them away, count me in!!! Thanks for your good work and let us know how your little daughter is doing healthwise.
Loving my Carbon Kramer! Not noticing much stickiness when cutting thicker items (large root vegetables and the like) even with the patina (and I enjoy a bit of asymmetry in my life; nothing is perfect, don't let it be the enemy of excellent)
wow, it's now been around two months since researching these knives. I ended up going for two Zwilling/Kramer Stainless Damascus knives and one of their Stainless Steel knives.
This is an excellent, unbiased review. I knew that the Damascus knife would out-perform the others, in spite of its handle not being quite as comfortable as the carbon version. I know this, because I got the chance to demo the Damascus, and compare it to other knives. The Damascus just handled better, and did a better job overall. The stainless version is a great budget knife, so I wouldn't pass on that if my means are limited. But if you want the best regardless of price, then my opinion is that the Damascus wins hands down.
Question I am pretty new to sharping only been doing it for a couple of months and watched a video by Justin Kahna and he sharpened his knives differently. He did 2 pennies on one side and 3 on the other so it turned out that 30% of the blade was on the side the food touched and 70% away from the food. Can I have your opinion on this and their way of sharpening. Also can you recommend some Japanese knife brands that are quality and cost 100 to 200 dollars, or should I go to a store try the knives their and buy their instead of online. Thanks so much keep up the good work
Nice video, I have the cheff stainless version for 2+ years and either strop it or even put it on a hone(metal or ceramic) and so far i did not find the need to sharpen it yet. I use this one 80% of the time, strangely I have to sharpen everything else in my kitchen at least every 6 months. Usually x50crmov15 steel. I also have a stainless santoku by Kramer and have just sharpened and polished up to a mirror finish, not sure about the grit 10/15K approximately. In real time use I still prefer the chef with the edge from the factory. I guess that going as high up with the grit on a chef knive might actually be less beneficial then keeping a micro serration at a lower grit level. Hope to save up for the SG2 some day. When I tried it in a shop I thought the balance was a bit different compared to the stainless. What was your observation, was there a difference in balance/handling of those 3?
As a steel nerd and knifemaker myself, I found it a somewhat amusing that you were so shocked that stainless was as good as carbon. I'd be shocked if it were the reverse, there are very few carbon steels that can hold a candle to modern stainless alloys. Not that there is anything wrong with carbon steel of course. I'm new to this channel but I'm enjoying what I'm seeing so far!
There's no inherent benefit to carbon over stainless in general, it really comes down to exact steel types. If the choice was say between a 420HC Stainless and a W2 Carbon tool steel then the carbon steel wins by far. There are some carbon alloys (or more accurately "Non-Stainless" because believe it or not most stainless steels actually have more carbon in them than carbon steels) that outperform most stainless alloys in areas such as edge retention, alloys like CPM rex121 or CTS Micromelt Maxamet. But these steels while top tier in edge retention are somewhat unbalanced, they often have structural downfalls like brittleness/ reduced toughness, and extreme difficulty in sharpenability. The best you can do is just research the specific steel and then compare, you want something with a good balance of toughness, edge retention and stability, and corrosion resistance (if you want corrosion resistance). Carbon steels were better for a long time, they held their edge and they were tough. Easy to work and cheap. So for generations we've just developed this kind of ingrained perception that carbon always equals better. But Metallurgy has really come a long way in recent decades. Nitrogen based alloys that have little to no carbon is where it's going currently, Those are the alloys I'll be working with. They only time i use a carbon steel is if I want the beauty of a hamon, San Mai or a layered Damascus. but there are even full stainless damascus steels these days.
No problem! yes it can become very convoluted very quickly. there's a lot of buzz words and marketing BS thrown around buy companies of course, they aren't going to point out the negatives of their products. As I said before your best bet is to dig deep and look into the materials before committing to a purchase. But it's a slippery slope, you don't want to go down the road of steel snobbery, just because a certain steel holds an edge for less time than another, doesn't mean it's not worth a purchase. ZDP 189 is a fantastic steel for sure, I haven't used it personally but it is on the harder side when it comes to sharpening, possibly prone to chipping. That isn't to say a ZDP knife would be a bad knife, it's all relative to your experience I guess. There are so many nuances like you said, even nuances between manufacturers and heat treatments of the same steel. One knife in a certain steel isn't guaranteed to perform the same as another with the same steel, which makes it even more difficult... On the nitrogen steels, yeah there are a couple of variants being used: LC200N is one, they are very balanced I feel. They offer many of the pros and not really any cons of the best steels. I would say ideal for kitchen usage, I plan to make my next few knives in Nitro-V steel, the knives in question are aimed at kitchen and outdoor usage around the ocean mainly. They look like any other steel, surface finish and aesthetics are up to the maker/manufacturer.
@Joshua Watson I believe the benefit is carbon is easier to sharpen and, more importantly, most "carbon" steels used in Japanese knife making can be heat treated to a far higher Rockwell rating then most stainless steels (even the newer ones) without becoming as brittle. So, in theory, carbon should be able to be sharpened to a more refined edge. That wasn't the case in this "test" but, then again, this test is far from reliable. Would be interesting to see this test performed 5 times and then get an average. Or, thin the bevel angles even more and go even higher with the grit. At some point the stainless and SG2 would probaby be beaten by the carbon but that doesn't mean the carbon steel one is better because the edge at that point would be too thin and brittle to be useful in the real world.
I have the Shun Classic and the Kramer SS and I love them both. I also have a few beaters like the Victorinox and the Mercer Millennium. I find that the Shun is good for super thin slicing . I like making Sushi occasionally and prefer the Shun, makes sense being that both are Japanese but for other tasks such as chopping, mincing. and making paste from garlic cloves the Kramer is hands down the better knife and the fact that it is so tall it makes a great scooper. I have a total of 8 chefs knives and use each in different tasks.
Mike Joseph do you have the 8” or 10” Kramer stainless steel? Do you find the 8” enough of a working blade length if that’s what you have. Hard to decide between the two sizes.
I have a Shun premier 8". Just bought the Kramer carbon 8". Both amazing. Out of the box the shun destroyed the Kramer in sharpness. In terms of feel, the Kramer is on another level. It feels way better in my hand. I have massive hands though. I didn't expect the weight of the Kramer carbon. I loved that it had the heft of a western knife, but the tip of a japanese. It's all preference of course.
Very interesting! I have the 8 inch carbon version and was thinking about buying the stainless as a present for my mom but I might have to pick up the stainless utility or 6 inch chef knife for myself as well! By the way I love my carbon Kramer knife, but I am pretty anal about wiping it dry each and every time. I’ve had it for 5 months now and it has developed a lovey patina. Very informative, thanks!
I have the carbon and Damascus versions. The carbon is my favourite because of the handle comfort, and the Damascus is in second place because I find the blade too sticky. Maybe I just haven't used the Damascus enough. Thanks for an excellent review.
I’d love to know how the sg2 and stainless compare to the MAC mth-80 in terms of edge retention and ease of sharpening? This was by far the best and most insightful review on the three Kramer knives i’ve come across, thanks for your hard work!
I did have a choice: I wanted all the convenience of a stainless knife and all the design of Bob Kramer. Sandvik 13-c26/AEB-L is fantastic kitchen knife steel. And I got it with the cheapest of the three. I have absolutely no regrets.
I know i'm asking something out your normal zone but could you show a Shun knife vs a Kyocera ceramic knife? I would love to see the rope tests or something
Though I do not find Shun the sharpest of knives, they will start out sharper than the ceramics; but the hardness of the ceramic (and probably larger angle of the edge) will eventually make the ceramics sharper.
Hey RyKy! Just found the channel a couple weeks ago, and already you've helped me put an edge on my knives that's probably sharper than factory, so thanks for all the great info! You've also but a fierce desire for a Dalstrong Shogun Kiritsuke, which is sadly impossible to acquire in Canada for a reason price at the moment. Anyway, I just have a quick question for ya; I don't think I've ever seen a Global knife on your channel! I was just wondering what your thoughts on the brand as a whole are, and if there was a reason why you've avoided them up till now? Any way, thanks for all the great content, and I look forward to your continued content!
I have two of the three. One Damascus carving knife and several carbon Kramer eurolines. Everyone raves about them, but I’ve been mostly annoyed with them. They just don’t seem as sharp as my old knives no matter how much I work them. The biggest frustration is that I hate having to care for the carbon like a needy toddler. It’s constantly rust or patina prone. That’s fine I suppose, and I don’t mind taking time sharpening, but you really have to use an eraser and clean them and oil them after nearly every use. It’s more of a pain than I thought it would be, and for sharpness that just doesn’t seem as perfect as the hype
I have the Damascus in 8” and is a work horse, very comfortable and it’s feels more secure doing heavy cutting like squash, pumpkins or potatoes. For mor delicate stuff like tomatoes I prefer my Miyabi rocking santoku black edition. Nice comparison!
I'd love to get the kramer damascus (sg2) purely to admire its aesthetic features. For a knife to be used for my daily meal preps, I'd love to get the kramer stainless steel knife. However, my dream knife is the miyabi birchwood... but that's a different topic i guess hahaha :)
I have the miyabi bichwood, strangly it is cheaper here in the Netherlands than the Kramer damast. The kramer damast is € 459,00, the miyaby birch is €290. But i love my Miyabi, doubting if any other knife outperforms it. have it for 3 years now.
Great video my friend. I personally would love the sg2 but for everyday use I prefer stainless steel. Carbon steel is great but if the patina is not even it drives me nuts. A lot of these new stainless steels are amazing I heard of a knife made out of this steel called rex121 that has a Rockwell over 70 best estimates are that it's hardness is around 72.
SG2 is stainless, the Damascus pattern is made out of stainless and nickel steel, so it shouldn't react either. CPM Rex 121 is crazy hard and will retain an edge for a long time, but it's not something an ordinary person would ever want to sharp. Most whetstones are Aluminum Oxide, and while harder than the Rex 121, it's going to take a long time, and you risk carbide tearout. The best bet is to sharpen on diamond or cbn.
I missed that you were thinking Rex 121 was stainless. It is not, none of the Rex line of steels are. CPM Rex 121 is related to Rex 45. The former has 3x more carbon and vadium, and almost 2x more tungsten than the latter. CPM Rex 45 is of interest because it's very similar to HAP 40, a Japanese steel that is occasionally made into chef knives.
FC61 is Aeb-l by another name, good to see it performing about as well as 52100, that's what many people have said it should behave like over the years.
you should test selcuk kardesler yatagan knives. also many other turkish knives like surmene or bursa bicak. they rival these and have a way more reasonable price.
Paul, that's my conclusion too! It's a piece of art in my newly remodeled kitchen. I'm guessing I won't notice the cutting difference if it's the only knife set that I have. 🙂
Someone correct me if I’m wrong but the only benefit of utilizing a carbon steel knife is that it can be stroped back to an edge easier and quicker than other metals. That’s why straight razors were and still are made out of carbon steel. I have numerous carbon steel razors and very few stainless steel straight razors due to they don’t hone and strop as easily and quickly. Other than that if I had to buy a Kramer to add to my 200 plus high end kitchen knives I’d get the stainless but I never liked the profile of them. That’s why I don’t own a Kramer.
Thanks, so the differences are very minor, I would imagine the sharpness would bout similar, to me spending extra $100 is literally for looks of the knife?
That extra $100.00 is not just for looks. There is a distinct difference between the feel of the Damascus and the stainless steel. The Damascus retains its sharpness better, and it also has a stiffer feel to it. Cuts are more accurate with the Damascus, in my opinion. I can work faster with a Damascus blade than I can a standard stainless steel. So if performance is what you are aiming for, go with the Damascus. But if you are looking for more value and can sacrifice some performance and are willing to have the knife sharpened more often, then go with the stainless steel. I would say that over a 20 year period, and the possibility of the knife being handed down through several generations, that $100.00 is not really much of a difference. But that's my opinion. If others want more bang for the buck, then I can understand their reasoning as well.
Now on the carbon compared to the stainless: The more comfortable handle, and the patina over time would satisfy a purist more. It would serve testimony towards the care and maintenance given by the owner. For the rest of us, stainless would be better in spite of the differences in the handle. But I would still select the Damascus over either the stainless or the carbon, simply because of its durability, stiffness, and faster cutting. That SG2 steel and Damascus layering represent the state of the art in design.
Well, the fact that the carbon knife did not outperformed the stainless is normal. Carbon has a great quality of edge for the price. It's not better than most modern supersteels (powdered steels) but its way cheaper and easier to sharpen.
I have a 10" Kramer Zwilling Damascus chef's knife. Although it's a very pretty knife, it's a totally disappointing knife in cutting performance. The problem is the damascus pattern with heavily etched damascus texture and ridges, along with a surface that looks like flat paint, gives the knife a great deal of friction when cutting through harder vegetables. Edge profile probably has something to do with the poor performance also, but mostly it's the rough damascus that's at fault. Instead of the blade gliding effortlessly through the harder vegetables, the blade resists gliding all the way. This is true despite the edge being hair-shaving sharp. I now only use this Kramer chef's knife as a passable cleaver to hack open squashes and melons. It's certainly got enough heft and blade strength for that kind of job.
Steve W I was wondering about the friction issue. Yesterday I bought the carbon precisely because some reviews mentioned that finicky people find the Damascus too sticky. Thank you for mentioning this point and vindicating my purchase!
@@p.w.4203 If wish I had gone for the carbon version. To compare a pretty stainless damascus pattern knife vs a carbon steel knife if like comparing a hot looking bimbo with a hollow head vs. an intelligent woman with a heart of gold. I still go for the pretty damascus occasionally, but more often than not, my kitchen knife purchases now are usually carbon steel knives.
Interesting to hear you say what I’ve been experiencing: I have been less than impressed with the edge on the carbon and HATE the rust that it gets almost instantly
Hey brother, I know it's a long shot that this will get to you; I have a question/ favor to ask I'm a veteran and a truck driver, my cold steel knives are all I have on the truck for cooking and all I trust for protection. Would you be able to show me off the record or on how sharpen them 1 is powder coated 12" fixed blade gi tanto the other is an older version of the Kraton it's been through hell and back since I started basic training in 2007 all my missions expeditions and needs since. if you could and would like the challenge I would be forever grateful.
There are some pretty straightforward sharpening systems out there that you could keep in your truck and just sharpen on the go. I've always had good results with a diamond lansky sharpening system.
Yaren Red i have the cheapest version the stainless steel version and its amazing stays sharp for such a long time iv never used something similar and i have purchased expensive knife sets in past but none of them stay sharp like this i just wish i would invested in quality knife many years ago i use it everyday and it always makes me smile when i get to use it😁
I live in Australia, knives such as this you can only buy it in US, then ship to Aus. I currently have a 8 inch Global G2 and 7 inch Victronix 7 inch santoku, looking for bit of upgrade but don't want to spend too much lul. I have seen some bad reviews on Amazon about this knife, so I am hesitating, may I ask you if you got the 8 inches or the 10 inches? thx :)
Yaren Red i got the 10inch cut alot of big veg slices cabbage so well not even worth taking out food processor the shape is unique nothing else like it spine is smooth and rounded no sharp edgdes that gives hard callis from tons of prepping i even use it to cut bread lol
Hey Marc, I really like the shape of knife making it very versatile for all sorts of cuttings, you know when you have a thin japanese blade, it is not comfy as something like this, do you know if they ever go on sales? thx
Interesting data, but I think it would be easier to understand if presented graphically. Or, at the very least, reduce the column widths is much as you can and increase the font size.
the carbon knive you have is way to expensive for what it provides..I have never seen you do a unbox of a fujiwara or a tojiro handcrafted or Mr.Ito that would be amazing..
I dont know if you get to read this but you do I wanna challenge you to do something i couldn't do my self! Im a knife collector and i have a few high end tamahagane, aogami AS, zdp 189 etc knives from legends such as fujiwara, yasha yukava. and yoshimitsu. my stones are also up to the part all the way up to 12000 grit,. yet i never could get any of my knives to that true hair popping sharp level (you run a single hair by their age the hair pop). SHOW ME YOU POWWWAAHHHH, can you get a knife that sharp as you rub a single hair on the knife and the hair pop?
hey knives lovers ! im coming here for help/tricks ! I just did a really funny or stupid thing. I was sharpening a french Opinel, which is a small pocket knife, high carbon steel. Im using some cheap whetstones with water (400/1000 and 2000/6000). But this knife was corroding during the process, i couldnt polish it great cause of the natural corrosion. So I decid to end the process of polishing and sharpenning with Oil, to not make it corrode. Well, it worked, it didnt corrod. But the real funny thing is : my water stone is now full of oil. Still waiting for the thing... Oil is hydrphob, so now my water stone in waterproof !!!!!!!! So my question is : is my stone screwed ? Now i've put the stone in very hot water, i hope the oil to loquified and come out of the stone. Seems to work, but im asking of the consequence for the stone to stay in hot water, then gets cold: will it be damaged ?
edge retention is interesting, but if i rember correclty, in your vegetable cutting test, the damascus seemed to stick more than the carbon.. so, if that holds true, then the damascus has a sharper edge but is held back compared to the carbon... i would not say the testing is done and concluded as those factors will impact feeling of working with the knife.. how useful i a sharp edge if the blade sticks - compared to one the glides through.. and this is tall blades... theory vs. actual use is not always the same.. depending on how testing is done thanks for the great content :-) on ista i'm jacobs_wine_world cheers
Found this video after my other post on your unboxing. I still don't understand why a person would spend $300 on a knife that will rust and degrade. To me that beautiful finish is wasted on the Carbon.
It is a myth that high carbon steel is better than the new high carbon stainless steels. Chromium carbide is considerably much harder than Ferrite or iron carbide. Then add in the Molybdenum carbides, Tungsten carbides and the king of wear resistance, Vanadium Carbide and you have a heck of a hard wearing knife. I will not even go into the exotic and hard wearing Niobium or Nitrogen. Simple rule of thumb is, the easier a knife is to sharpen, the quicker it is to go dull.
I've been looking forward to this video for a while. Thanks for posting it. I have the carbon, and I assumed it's edge retention would be better than others. I'm glad you included fit/finish and feel in your assessment because that is why I reach for this knife so often.
Great video...Through a series of circumstances. I ended up with a 10" Damascus. Long story short, I wasn't looking for one but ended up with one. I have been very happy with it and looking to enjoy it of years to come
Love my carbon!!! fit and finish is awesome and now with the patina it just has a character of its own!!! Great video and info, thank you!!!
M D can u do a video of cutting test? Of the carbon kramer pr a beautiful video only to aprreciate in all details because there is not to much video of that knife
Thanks to you I changed completely my approach to sharpening knives and which knives to acquire. I would love to get my hands on a Bob Kramer knife (any size) so if you are going to give them away, count me in!!! Thanks for your good work and let us know how your little daughter is doing healthwise.
I love this detailed content! Absolutely a great thing to do every once in a while. Keep up the innovation! :D
Your channel has been amazingly helpful
Loving my Carbon Kramer! Not noticing much stickiness when cutting thicker items (large root vegetables and the like) even with the patina (and I enjoy a bit of asymmetry in my life; nothing is perfect, don't let it be the enemy of excellent)
Holy moly I bought the damascus version last night! What a coincidence!
Great video and info thanks
For myself, if I ever came around to getting one, it would more than likely be the carbon steel guy with the wooden handle. Thanks for these videos !
yeah, me too
wow, it's now been around two months since researching these knives. I ended up going for two Zwilling/Kramer Stainless Damascus knives and one of their Stainless Steel knives.
This is an excellent, unbiased review. I knew that the Damascus knife would out-perform the others, in spite of its handle not being quite as comfortable as the carbon version. I know this, because I got the chance to demo the Damascus, and compare it to other knives. The Damascus just handled better, and did a better job overall. The stainless version is a great budget knife, so I wouldn't pass on that if my means are limited. But if you want the best regardless of price, then my opinion is that the Damascus wins hands down.
How is the stickiness on the damascus version now?
Question I am pretty new to sharping only been doing it for a couple of months and watched a video by Justin Kahna and he sharpened his knives differently. He did 2 pennies on one side and 3 on the other so it turned out that 30% of the blade was on the side the food touched and 70% away from the food. Can I have your opinion on this and their way of sharpening. Also can you recommend some Japanese knife brands that are quality and cost 100 to 200 dollars, or should I go to a store try the knives their and buy their instead of online. Thanks so much keep up the good work
Nice video, I have the cheff stainless version for 2+ years and either strop it or even put it on a hone(metal or ceramic) and so far i did not find the need to sharpen it yet. I use this one 80% of the time, strangely I have to sharpen everything else in my kitchen at least every 6 months. Usually x50crmov15 steel. I also have a stainless santoku by Kramer and have just sharpened and polished up to a mirror finish, not sure about the grit 10/15K approximately. In real time use I still prefer the chef with the edge from the factory. I guess that going as high up with the grit on a chef knive might actually be less beneficial then keeping a micro serration at a lower grit level.
Hope to save up for the SG2 some day. When I tried it in a shop I thought the balance was a bit different compared to the stainless. What was your observation, was there a difference in balance/handling of those 3?
As a steel nerd and knifemaker myself, I found it a somewhat amusing that you were so shocked that stainless was as good as carbon. I'd be shocked if it were the reverse, there are very few carbon steels that can hold a candle to modern stainless alloys. Not that there is anything wrong with carbon steel of course. I'm new to this channel but I'm enjoying what I'm seeing so far!
There's no inherent benefit to carbon over stainless in general, it really comes down to exact steel types. If the choice was say between a 420HC Stainless and a W2 Carbon tool steel then the carbon steel wins by far. There are some carbon alloys (or more accurately "Non-Stainless" because believe it or not most stainless steels actually have more carbon in them than carbon steels) that outperform most stainless alloys in areas such as edge retention, alloys like CPM rex121 or CTS Micromelt Maxamet. But these steels while top tier in edge retention are somewhat unbalanced, they often have structural downfalls like brittleness/ reduced toughness, and extreme difficulty in sharpenability. The best you can do is just research the specific steel and then compare, you want something with a good balance of toughness, edge retention and stability, and corrosion resistance (if you want corrosion resistance).
Carbon steels were better for a long time, they held their edge and they were tough. Easy to work and cheap. So for generations we've just developed this kind of ingrained perception that carbon always equals better. But Metallurgy has really come a long way in recent decades. Nitrogen based alloys that have little to no carbon is where it's going currently, Those are the alloys I'll be working with. They only time i use a carbon steel is if I want the beauty of a hamon, San Mai or a layered Damascus. but there are even full stainless damascus steels these days.
No problem! yes it can become very convoluted very quickly. there's a lot of buzz words and marketing BS thrown around buy companies of course, they aren't going to point out the negatives of their products. As I said before your best bet is to dig deep and look into the materials before committing to a purchase. But it's a slippery slope, you don't want to go down the road of steel snobbery, just because a certain steel holds an edge for less time than another, doesn't mean it's not worth a purchase. ZDP 189 is a fantastic steel for sure, I haven't used it personally but it is on the harder side when it comes to sharpening, possibly prone to chipping. That isn't to say a ZDP knife would be a bad knife, it's all relative to your experience I guess.
There are so many nuances like you said, even nuances between manufacturers and heat treatments of the same steel. One knife in a certain steel isn't guaranteed to perform the same as another with the same steel, which makes it even more difficult...
On the nitrogen steels, yeah there are a couple of variants being used: LC200N is one, they are very balanced I feel. They offer many of the pros and not really any cons of the best steels. I would say ideal for kitchen usage, I plan to make my next few knives in Nitro-V steel, the knives in question are aimed at kitchen and outdoor usage around the ocean mainly. They look like any other steel, surface finish and aesthetics are up to the maker/manufacturer.
for me its the look, feel and the easy sharp-ability that makes carbon steel superior to me.
@Joshua Watson I believe the benefit is carbon is easier to sharpen and, more importantly, most "carbon" steels used in Japanese knife making can be heat treated to a far higher Rockwell rating then most stainless steels (even the newer ones) without becoming as brittle. So, in theory, carbon should be able to be sharpened to a more refined edge. That wasn't the case in this "test" but, then again, this test is far from reliable. Would be interesting to see this test performed 5 times and then get an average. Or, thin the bevel angles even more and go even higher with the grit. At some point the stainless and SG2 would probaby be beaten by the carbon but that doesn't mean the carbon steel one is better because the edge at that point would be too thin and brittle to be useful in the real world.
Still enjoying the videos! I second a video going over how to care for this Kramer Carbon or just carbon knives in general.
I appreciate your work. Have you done a video on the sharpest you've gotten a knife using the measuring scale? Stoker
I have the Damascus.
It looks so nice! I am really happy to have it!
Excellent! Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
Very good video and testing methodology
I have the Shun Classic and the Kramer SS and I love them both. I also have a few beaters like the Victorinox and the Mercer Millennium. I find that the Shun is good for super thin slicing . I like making Sushi occasionally and prefer the Shun, makes sense being that both are Japanese but for other tasks such as chopping, mincing. and making paste from garlic cloves the Kramer is hands down the better knife and the fact that it is so tall it makes a great scooper. I have a total of 8 chefs knives and use each in different tasks.
Mike Joseph do you have the 8” or 10” Kramer stainless steel? Do you find the 8” enough of a working blade length if that’s what you have. Hard to decide between the two sizes.
I have a Shun premier 8". Just bought the Kramer carbon 8". Both amazing. Out of the box the shun destroyed the Kramer in sharpness. In terms of feel, the Kramer is on another level. It feels way better in my hand. I have massive hands though. I didn't expect the weight of the Kramer carbon. I loved that it had the heft of a western knife, but the tip of a japanese. It's all preference of course.
hey man just gotten into sharpening recently and absolutely love your videos!!
please try the Kuma Damascus premium chef knife
what happend to the $30 Victorinox Fibrox rope test?
Very interesting! I have the 8 inch carbon version and was thinking about buying the stainless as a present for my mom but I might have to pick up the stainless utility or 6 inch chef knife for myself as well! By the way I love my carbon Kramer knife, but I am pretty anal about wiping it dry each and every time. I’ve had it for 5 months now and it has developed a lovey patina.
Very informative, thanks!
Very cool. If you put the results in graphs, it will be easier to digest. Hard to read and listen at the same time. Great data! Thank you!
MÄNN KITCHEN that's a good idea, he should totally do it. We would be grateful
my favorite video so far!
When are you going to do more videos with the nexus bd1n knife
I have the carbon and Damascus versions. The carbon is my favourite because of the handle comfort, and the Damascus is in second place because I find the blade too sticky. Maybe I just haven't used the Damascus enough. Thanks for an excellent review.
holy crap i just watched the Kramer comparison video half an hour ago i cant believe this just came out
Hope i could buy a Kramer one day
Can you test some Shibata knives? I heard that they are amazing. I'm about to buy one.
I loved it. Please make one for yanagiba 😁
Rikki, excellent review, I'd get the SG2, well, or... I Did purchase the SG2, yeah, sucker for the Damascus steel.
How do they compare to miyabi black or birch wood
So the SG2 is hardest, and has the least chip resistance?
I’m here bc I have the carbon but was considering going with the damascus. Still not sure. But the review was what I was looking for.
I’d love to know how the sg2 and stainless compare to the MAC mth-80 in terms of edge retention and ease of sharpening?
This was by far the best and most insightful review on the three Kramer knives i’ve come across, thanks for your hard work!
Do the Karmer knives come with a blade/edge guard? Just wondering.
Alistair Spence - No
I tried getting the super blade on your patreon but it wouldn't let me it kept freezing....
What about 8 inch versus 10 inch blade?
I did have a choice: I wanted all the convenience of a stainless knife and all the design of Bob Kramer. Sandvik 13-c26/AEB-L is fantastic kitchen knife steel. And I got it with the cheapest of the three. I have absolutely no regrets.
can you make video about how to carry carbon steel ?
I know i'm asking something out your normal zone but could you show a Shun knife vs a Kyocera ceramic knife? I would love to see the rope tests or something
Though I do not find Shun the sharpest of knives, they will start out sharper than the ceramics; but the hardness of the ceramic (and probably larger angle of the edge) will eventually make the ceramics sharper.
Hey RyKy! Just found the channel a couple weeks ago, and already you've helped me put an edge on my knives that's probably sharper than factory, so thanks for all the great info! You've also but a fierce desire for a Dalstrong Shogun Kiritsuke, which is sadly impossible to acquire in Canada for a reason price at the moment. Anyway, I just have a quick question for ya; I don't think I've ever seen a Global knife on your channel! I was just wondering what your thoughts on the brand as a whole are, and if there was a reason why you've avoided them up till now?
Any way, thanks for all the great content, and I look forward to your continued content!
I have two of the three. One Damascus carving knife and several carbon Kramer eurolines. Everyone raves about them, but I’ve been mostly annoyed with them. They just don’t seem as sharp as my old knives no matter how much I work them. The biggest frustration is that I hate having to care for the carbon like a needy toddler. It’s constantly rust or patina prone. That’s fine I suppose, and I don’t mind taking time sharpening, but you really have to use an eraser and clean them and oil them after nearly every use. It’s more of a pain than I thought it would be, and for sharpness that just doesn’t seem as perfect as the hype
Saving for the 52110 steel
Question on these knives, would you still use the Shogun X over the Kramer based on the price?
if you can afford it, the Kramer is a better knife.
I would love to have the SG2 knife!
100k by the end of the year👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
I have the Damascus in 8” and is a work horse, very comfortable and it’s feels more secure doing heavy cutting like squash, pumpkins or potatoes. For mor delicate stuff like tomatoes I prefer my Miyabi rocking santoku black edition. Nice comparison!
Is Bob Kramer the best knife you ever had?
One of the best
No complains in the testing method, shows all the data and minimizes variants perfectly.
In the zwilling store in sawgrass mall the damascus version cost 200 dollars, y bougth the knife and the stones kit for 430 dollars 😱
I'd love to get the kramer damascus (sg2) purely to admire its aesthetic features. For a knife to be used for my daily meal preps, I'd love to get the kramer stainless steel knife. However, my dream knife is the miyabi birchwood... but that's a different topic i guess hahaha :)
I have the miyabi bichwood, strangly it is cheaper here in the Netherlands than the Kramer damast. The kramer damast is € 459,00, the miyaby birch is €290. But i love my Miyabi, doubting if any other knife outperforms it. have it for 3 years now.
Love my Shun Hiro Knives WITH SG2 64HRC
Great video my friend. I personally would love the sg2 but for everyday use I prefer stainless steel. Carbon steel is great but if the patina is not even it drives me nuts. A lot of these new stainless steels are amazing I heard of a knife made out of this steel called rex121 that has a Rockwell over 70 best estimates are that it's hardness is around 72.
SG2 is stainless, the Damascus pattern is made out of stainless and nickel steel, so it shouldn't react either. CPM Rex 121 is crazy hard and will retain an edge for a long time, but it's not something an ordinary person would ever want to sharp. Most whetstones are Aluminum Oxide, and while harder than the Rex 121, it's going to take a long time, and you risk carbide tearout. The best bet is to sharpen on diamond or cbn.
CPM Rex 121 isn't a stainless steel.
I missed that you were thinking Rex 121 was stainless. It is not, none of the Rex line of steels are. CPM Rex 121 is related to Rex 45. The former has 3x more carbon and vadium, and almost 2x more tungsten than the latter. CPM Rex 45 is of interest because it's very similar to HAP 40, a Japanese steel that is occasionally made into chef knives.
FC61 is Aeb-l by another name, good to see it performing about as well as 52100, that's what many people have said it should behave like over the years.
AEB-L is a great steel, really good all rounder. There's an "Upgraded" nitrogen-Vanadium version by the name of Nitro-V which I'm very interested in.
thanks goku
you should test selcuk kardesler yatagan knives. also many other turkish knives like surmene or bursa bicak. they rival these and have a way more reasonable price.
I'd pick the Damascus. Because it's just so beautiful.
Paul, that's my conclusion too! It's a piece of art in my newly remodeled kitchen. I'm guessing I won't notice the cutting difference if it's the only knife set that I have. 🙂
Someone correct me if I’m wrong but the only benefit of utilizing a carbon steel knife is that it can be stroped back to an edge easier and quicker than other metals. That’s why straight razors were and still are made out of carbon steel. I have numerous carbon steel razors and very few stainless steel straight razors due to they don’t hone and strop as easily and quickly. Other than that if I had to buy a Kramer to add to my 200 plus high end kitchen knives I’d get the stainless but I never liked the profile of them. That’s why I don’t own a Kramer.
I have the carbon and damascus knives and I do love them and I recommend the carbon if you just want one work hoarse.
Is carbon better than stainless steel?
Stainless is better because it retains its edge as well as the carbon, and is easier to maintain. The carbon just has a more comfortable, wood handle.
Thanks, so the differences are very minor, I would imagine the sharpness would bout similar, to me spending extra $100 is literally for looks of the knife?
That extra $100.00 is not just for looks. There is a distinct difference between the feel of the Damascus and the stainless steel. The Damascus retains its sharpness better, and it also has a stiffer feel to it. Cuts are more accurate with the Damascus, in my opinion. I can work faster with a Damascus blade than I can a standard stainless steel. So if performance is what you are aiming for, go with the Damascus. But if you are looking for more value and can sacrifice some performance and are willing to have the knife sharpened more often, then go with the stainless steel. I would say that over a 20 year period, and the possibility of the knife being handed down through several generations, that $100.00 is not really much of a difference. But that's my opinion. If others want more bang for the buck, then I can understand their reasoning as well.
Now on the carbon compared to the stainless: The more comfortable handle, and the patina over time would satisfy a purist more. It would serve testimony towards the care and maintenance given by the owner. For the rest of us, stainless would be better in spite of the differences in the handle. But I would still select the Damascus over either the stainless or the carbon, simply because of its durability, stiffness, and faster cutting. That SG2 steel and Damascus layering represent the state of the art in design.
And the meiji lines?
ive had the chance to sharpen the carbon version several times and it's great! i havent put hands on the other two models yet
Well, the fact that the carbon knife did not outperformed the stainless is normal. Carbon has a great quality of edge for the price. It's not better than most modern supersteels (powdered steels) but its way cheaper and easier to sharpen.
I would choose the Damascus SG2, if I had could afford it.
Do an arcos knife test and review
I have a 10" Kramer Zwilling Damascus chef's knife. Although it's a very pretty knife, it's a totally disappointing knife in cutting performance. The problem is the damascus pattern with heavily etched damascus texture and ridges, along with a surface that looks like flat paint, gives the knife a great deal of friction when cutting through harder vegetables. Edge profile probably has something to do with the poor performance also, but mostly it's the rough damascus that's at fault. Instead of the blade gliding effortlessly through the harder vegetables, the blade resists gliding all the way. This is true despite the edge being hair-shaving sharp. I now only use this Kramer chef's knife as a passable cleaver to hack open squashes and melons. It's certainly got enough heft and blade strength for that kind of job.
Steve W I was wondering about the friction issue. Yesterday I bought the carbon precisely because some reviews mentioned that finicky people find the Damascus too sticky. Thank you for mentioning this point and vindicating my purchase!
@@p.w.4203 If wish I had gone for the carbon version. To compare a pretty stainless damascus pattern knife vs a carbon steel knife if like comparing a hot looking bimbo with a hollow head vs. an intelligent woman with a heart of gold. I still go for the pretty damascus occasionally, but more often than not, my kitchen knife purchases now are usually carbon steel knives.
Interesting to hear you say what I’ve been experiencing: I have been less than impressed with the edge on the carbon and HATE the rust that it gets almost instantly
Glad you find my review helpful and hopefully honest as well
Hey brother,
I know it's a long shot that this will get to you;
I have a question/ favor to ask
I'm a veteran and a truck driver, my cold steel knives are all I have on the truck for cooking and all I trust for protection.
Would you be able to show me off the record or on how sharpen them 1 is powder coated 12" fixed blade gi tanto the other is an older version of the Kraton it's been through hell and back since I started basic training in 2007 all my missions expeditions and needs since.
if you could and would like the challenge I would be forever grateful.
Jon Anderson that would be awesome but I'd like to be walked through hands on so I can on my off duty time not sure how to PM though
There are some pretty straightforward sharpening systems out there that you could keep in your truck and just sharpen on the go. I've always had good results with a diamond lansky sharpening system.
Jimmy Grey thank you I'll definitely look into that
You should try to sharpen a knife on a flatting stone and also great video
Luv the Kramer but for the money still gotta go with the Victorinox .... hint hint
I will be those the SG2 version. End I am going to baying this tomorrow.
I just bought a Carbon Steel version. If I had known this, I might have purchased the Stainless Steel version. Just as sharp and easier to maintain.
The carbon steel should develop some nice character and patina over time though, that's a plus at least.
I would actually pick the carbon one, over the other two.
I have stainless and i love it can prep veg all day I cant use anything else now im spoiled lol
These knives are really expensive, are they worth it?
Yaren Red i have the cheapest version the stainless steel version and its amazing stays sharp for such a long time iv never used something similar and i have purchased expensive knife sets in past but none of them stay sharp like this i just wish i would invested in quality knife many years ago i use it everyday and it always makes me smile when i get to use it😁
I live in Australia, knives such as this you can only buy it in US, then ship to Aus. I currently have a 8 inch Global G2 and 7 inch Victronix 7 inch santoku, looking for bit of upgrade but don't want to spend too much lul. I have seen some bad reviews on Amazon about this knife, so I am hesitating, may I ask you if you got the 8 inches or the 10 inches? thx :)
Yaren Red i got the 10inch cut alot of big veg slices cabbage so well not even worth taking out food processor the shape is unique nothing else like it spine is smooth and rounded no sharp edgdes that gives hard callis from tons of prepping i even use it to cut bread lol
Hey Marc, I really like the shape of knife making it very versatile for all sorts of cuttings, you know when you have a thin japanese blade, it is not comfy as something like this, do you know if they ever go on sales? thx
I am a Carbon fan , but only high HRC Japanese versions
The Carbon is 61HRC, about the same as what you'd get. 52100 steel is similar to shironiko steel.
Interesting data, but I think it would be easier to understand if presented graphically. Or, at the very least, reduce the column widths is much as you can and increase the font size.
the carbon knive you have is way to expensive for what it provides..I have never seen you do a unbox of a fujiwara or a tojiro handcrafted or Mr.Ito that would be amazing..
i would love to win a bob kramer knife
I dont know if you get to read this but you do I wanna challenge you to do something i couldn't do my self! Im a knife collector and i have a few high end tamahagane, aogami AS, zdp 189 etc knives from legends such as fujiwara, yasha yukava. and yoshimitsu. my stones are also up to the part all the way up to 12000 grit,. yet i never could get any of my knives to that true hair popping sharp level (you run a single hair by their age the hair pop). SHOW ME YOU POWWWAAHHHH, can you get a knife that sharp as you rub a single hair on the knife and the hair pop?
hey knives lovers ! im coming here for help/tricks ! I just did a really funny or stupid thing. I was sharpening a french Opinel, which is a small pocket knife, high carbon steel. Im using some cheap whetstones with water (400/1000 and 2000/6000). But this knife was corroding during the process, i couldnt polish it great cause of the natural corrosion. So I decid to end the process of polishing and sharpenning with Oil, to not make it corrode. Well, it worked, it didnt corrod. But the real funny thing is : my water stone is now full of oil. Still waiting for the thing... Oil is hydrphob, so now my water stone in waterproof !!!!!!!!
So my question is : is my stone screwed ? Now i've put the stone in very hot water, i hope the oil to loquified and come out of the stone. Seems to work, but im asking of the consequence for the stone to stay in hot water, then gets cold: will it be damaged ?
edge retention is interesting, but if i rember correclty, in your vegetable cutting test, the damascus seemed to stick more than the carbon.. so, if that holds true, then the damascus has a sharper edge but is held back compared to the carbon... i would not say the testing is done and concluded as those factors will impact feeling of working with the knife.. how useful i a sharp edge if the blade sticks - compared to one the glides through.. and this is tall blades... theory vs. actual use is not always the same.. depending on how testing is done
thanks for the great content :-) on ista i'm jacobs_wine_world
cheers
Found this video after my other post on your unboxing. I still don't understand why a person would spend $300 on a knife that will rust and degrade. To me that beautiful finish is wasted on the Carbon.
Hi can u plz send one knife tome
If its slightly damaged also no prob.
Do a blindfold vid where you are touching stones and you must say which stone it is you're touching
Stones not knives
It is a myth that high carbon steel is better than the new high carbon stainless steels. Chromium carbide is considerably much harder than Ferrite or iron carbide. Then add in the Molybdenum carbides, Tungsten carbides and the king of wear resistance, Vanadium Carbide and you have a heck of a hard wearing knife. I will not even go into the exotic and hard wearing Niobium or Nitrogen.
Simple rule of thumb is, the easier a knife is to sharpen, the quicker it is to go dull.
Odlicno