Marvel vs. Capcom 2 - Was It The Ultimate Dream Game !?

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  • čas přidán 31. 05. 2023
  • In today's video, we revisit Marvel vs Capcom 2 : New Age of Heroes. This cross over game was a dream come true, but what is it that made it so special and never to be topped?
    #marvelvscapcom #streetfighter #retrogaming
    Support my show on Patreon : www.patreon.com/user?u=4432923
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  • Hry

Komentáře • 402

  • @gonzaloNMF
    @gonzaloNMF Před rokem +229

    The late 90's and early 2000's was the golden era of 2D fighting games.

  • @wizardseven
    @wizardseven Před rokem +32

    To this day, I still can't get over how much I love the artstyle of this game

  • @Purplepunch813
    @Purplepunch813 Před měsícem +21

    We’re so back

    • @raabdj
      @raabdj Před měsícem +3

      We were so due.

  • @mr.checkyourself4672
    @mr.checkyourself4672 Před rokem +258

    Marvel vs Capcom 2 had the largest roster until Mortal Kombat Armageddon beat it out for most characters in a fighting game but MVC2 a top 5 fighting game of mine it should remastered and release again.

    • @francisvebert5830
      @francisvebert5830 Před rokem +19

      Don't forget budokai tenkaishi 3 with a roster of nearly 100 fighters

    • @ninjax1983
      @ninjax1983 Před rokem +11

      The only difference Is that Marvel vs Capcom 2 is a versus 3 on 3 tag team fighting game not a traiditional 1 vs 1 fighting game.

    • @MichaelTaylor-qp2xf
      @MichaelTaylor-qp2xf Před rokem +24

      And yet, MVC2 is considered one of the greatest fighters of all time yet Mortal Kombat Armageddon has been forgotten by history.

    • @danbauer3669
      @danbauer3669 Před rokem +10

      @@MichaelTaylor-qp2xf I remember Armageddon. Kreate-A-Fighter, Kreate-A-Fatality, Motor Kombat. 2 legs Motaro.
      ...And I'm not the only one.

    • @eviljigglypuff2254
      @eviljigglypuff2254 Před rokem +12

      ​@danbauer3669 Ahhh yes. Who can forget "Motor Kombat"?

  • @hyper_candy576
    @hyper_candy576 Před měsícem +7

    Literally got this video recommended as soon as the announcement came out 😁😁

  • @RandomPNW
    @RandomPNW Před rokem +26

    "Gonna take you for a ride..."

  • @thecunninlynguist
    @thecunninlynguist Před rokem +30

    Yes, yes it was. I pumped so many quarters into this baby.
    My team was jill spidey venom.

  • @jeremybowers3181
    @jeremybowers3181 Před rokem +22

    "wanna take you for a ride!"I still have this saved on my Xbox 360 and play it with my kids regularly! The pinnacle of crazed 2d fighting games!!

  • @OneCentWonder
    @OneCentWonder Před měsícem +3

    As a little kid whenever I'd see this game either in an arcade or a laundromat I had to play it. I wasn't aware it was on consoles at the time and loved how this game played and how colorful it was. Spider-Man and Venom were always my favorites

  • @JDDK28
    @JDDK28 Před rokem +113

    MVC2 is a truly perfect fighting game. To this day, I’ll stop and play it when I see it in an arcade or elsewhere. Arcade 1up outdid themselves with the VS compilation cabinet they recently made. Worth every penny.

    • @troymcclure681
      @troymcclure681 Před rokem +4

      If they got rid of sentinel it would be

    • @KamisamanoOtaku
      @KamisamanoOtaku Před rokem +5

      I love Marvel Vs Capcom 2, but perfect it ain't. ;)

    • @zinzeta
      @zinzeta Před rokem +2

      @@KamisamanoOtaku What fighting game is perfect?

    • @brandonmuse5532
      @brandonmuse5532 Před rokem +1

      Amazing game. The music was not great

    • @KamisamanoOtaku
      @KamisamanoOtaku Před rokem

      @@zinzeta Did you not read the FIRST COMMENT IN THIS THREAD? XD @JDDK28 Said MvC2 was "perfect", hence me feeling the need to point out it wasn't. ;)

  • @kamenrider64
    @kamenrider64 Před rokem +50

    I think Marvel vs Capcom 2 was the Smash Bros Ultimate of the franchise at the time as it brought back everyone was playable in previous games while adding in a few new characters

  • @rachelespiritu4215
    @rachelespiritu4215 Před rokem +11

    Forgotten detail: MvC2 was also Guile's debut in the VS series. Everyone seems to assume that as one of the World Warriors, he would have already been there, but the previous entries in the series only featured Charlie.

  • @Off_Brand_Mex
    @Off_Brand_Mex Před rokem +23

    I feel it's still the greatest fighting game ever, and one of the best games period.

  • @campampates
    @campampates Před rokem +5

    Bro the art...damn...the game and the fanservice was PHENOMENAL...

  • @RamzaBeo
    @RamzaBeo Před 10 měsíci +5

    I loved this game man, I remember leaning my first amingo combo lol

  • @TrillyThough
    @TrillyThough Před rokem +8

    Man, this game is timeless. Can still play it to this day without skipping a beat.

  • @BaronLector
    @BaronLector Před rokem +5

    I own the Dreamcast version of this game. I unlocked all the costumes and characters by setting up Training mode before I went to bed and collecting the points in the morning.

  • @MichaelTaylor-qp2xf
    @MichaelTaylor-qp2xf Před rokem +3

    "What made this so special?"
    "I'm gonna take you for a ride! I'm gonna take you for a ride! I'm gonna take you for a ride! I'm gonna take you for a ride!"

  • @ryutou-ki4dl
    @ryutou-ki4dl Před rokem +24

    honestly mvc2 is up there in the convo of best games of all time as far as how well its made, the feel of it, the systems it uses, the roster, and replayability. its a fighting game that got non fighting game fans to play it. its such a great game.

  • @linewalker
    @linewalker Před 11 měsíci +5

    One of its many strengths is the character designs and animations. 👏👏👏

  • @jenniferbrandt4782
    @jenniferbrandt4782 Před rokem +25

    I wish we could get a Marvel vs Capcom collection with all the vs games up til MvC2

    • @dieseldust27
      @dieseldust27 Před rokem +7

      Possible but difficult because of Disney

    • @tonymatt225
      @tonymatt225 Před rokem +3

      @@dieseldust27 Disney acting like some bitc….😂

    • @dieseldust27
      @dieseldust27 Před rokem +2

      @@tonymatt225 Haha true. Wish Marvel was still indie

    • @cyberpsychosis5367
      @cyberpsychosis5367 Před rokem

      Disney says "stop meme"

    • @TheHistorianKing
      @TheHistorianKing Před 5 měsíci

      The contracts between Capcom and marvel (now Disney) has expired since 2013. Won't happen unless they negotiate a new contract settlement.

  • @CharT335
    @CharT335 Před rokem +12

    Yes, it is the ultimate dream fighting game, as it had a massive roster and all of the sprites and animation looked exactly as it came out of Marvel comic books. Perfect graphics, perfect sound, percent soundtrack. A staple at tournaments for a reason. Capcom should rerelease the PS3 digital version for modern consoles. Can't wait for MvC4 someday...

  • @Bingo_the_Pug
    @Bingo_the_Pug Před rokem +45

    I love how the story is extremely vague, virtually no dialogue that discusses what’s happening. Ruby Heart discovers a strange sphere, unleashes a powerful entity known as Abyss, and all the characters must stop it. Simple & sweet.

    • @Ginga
      @Ginga Před rokem +8

      And the ending is just everyone chilling on her ship. Sweet and simple.

  • @Lieutenaantdan
    @Lieutenaantdan Před 6 měsíci +2

    I can’t explain it but this game is just absolutely amazing. It’s so good even after all these years. I have just as much fun with it as I did when I was a kid. Such a rare thing

  • @mrgonzalez4583
    @mrgonzalez4583 Před rokem +3

    Mvc2 will always be my favorite fighting game ever so many memories playing with my family and friends

  • @otakuking10
    @otakuking10 Před rokem +21

    I hope capcom will release the marvel vs capcom collection! It’ll include X-men vs street fighter, marvel vs capcom and marvel vs capcom 2 plus other capcom marvel games..

    • @warrenrohr
      @warrenrohr Před rokem

      Sorry for newbie question but i have a ps4 and my son has been trying to find it and is there a digital version or compatible version for ps4?

    • @TheHistorianKing
      @TheHistorianKing Před 5 měsíci +1

      The contracts between Capcom and marvel (now Disney) has expired since 2013. Won't happen unless they negotiate a new contract settlement.

    • @chriskeepit100
      @chriskeepit100 Před měsícem

      ​​@@warrenrohrunfortunately no MVC 2 hasn't been digital since like 2013 or so

    • @kevinfreire1
      @kevinfreire1 Před měsícem

      Haha you predicted the future

    • @brandenhercules9503
      @brandenhercules9503 Před 27 dny

      ​@warrenrohr you will soon now

  • @jarrellmason9080
    @jarrellmason9080 Před rokem +7

    I have my Dreamcast copy somewhere. I used to spend all my quarters on this at the arcade. It's in my top 5 of fighting games of all time.

  • @sdj0914
    @sdj0914 Před rokem +3

    We really need marvel vs capcom series collection soon

  • @theuncommonangel8032
    @theuncommonangel8032 Před rokem +11

    Marvel vs Capcom 2 is such a masterpiece of a game I love Capcom put obscure characters from the Marvel side like Shuma Gorath, Silver Samurai, Spiral, Marrow etc had no idea who those characters were until later years.

  • @user-ug2jb6jd8i
    @user-ug2jb6jd8i Před rokem +4

    I had it on a dreamcast and played alot...got really good and had so much fun, nooow i realize the lucky i was to have that work of art and so much free time

  • @kainyfrancois9184
    @kainyfrancois9184 Před 2 měsíci +4

    This game is my childhood 💎gem I love this game and play till this day on my Dreamcast

  • @david-TheRave
    @david-TheRave Před 10 měsíci +6

    I missed this back in the day, they need to bring a collection out for the ps4/5

  • @TheDaggerman30
    @TheDaggerman30 Před rokem +5

    There is so many things that would take me hours if not days to talk about the pros and cons on this masterpiece

  • @tommystrawnarm2810
    @tommystrawnarm2810 Před rokem +20

    I wish they’d go ahead an release a compilation of MvsCap releases on Switch. Like nows the time to do so.

    • @lushomomunsaka3530
      @lushomomunsaka3530 Před měsícem +1

      You're the one I should thank for this miracle right?🙏

    • @tommystrawnarm2810
      @tommystrawnarm2810 Před měsícem

      @@lushomomunsaka3530 The dream has finally become a reality. We can all keep rejoicing 🙌

  • @michelvanderlinden8363
    @michelvanderlinden8363 Před měsícem +3

    It had a store where you could unlock so much stuff. Thats really a main reason it was so great. Costumes, new characters, artwork etc. It was insane how much unlockable content it had. Today, companies just shit out all that stuff as "DLC" and "seasonal content". Its good money afterall; ask people to pay up 20 bucks to get 5 characters in a few months, instead of just bringing out a full, complete game.
    Honestly, I miss games where you could unlock characters and other fun stuff. DLC or cheatcodes just dont do it for me.

    • @OnkelCthulhu
      @OnkelCthulhu Před měsícem +1

      I remember, you could get half the secret characters free on dreamcast, and the arcade has a slot for dreamcast safecard, where you could get the other half free. but the arcade was only in japan and maybe in the US, it was a pita to got a savegame for my dreamcast in europe.

  • @mafiousbj
    @mafiousbj Před rokem +6

    At least in Waifu quality few or no games come close.
    I mean Morrigan, Chun-Li, Psylocke, Cammy and 90's Rogue and Storm with the huge success of the X Men animated series at the time.
    Add to that Jill Valentine of a new and popular genre creating franchise and some others I may be forgetting and save for some Namco or Virtua Fighter guest character you couldn't have asked for more back then!

  • @o8thnaspliff
    @o8thnaspliff Před rokem +23

    Marvel vs Capcom 2 defines a 💎

  • @playtimewrestlingfederation

    I remember getting this game for Dreamcast and I got the Arcade stick! Awesome!!

  • @RamblyBear
    @RamblyBear Před rokem +6

    Not surprised you didn't call out the Star Gladiator character, this game just has so much content. I remember at the time being so surprised to see them bring a 3D fighting game charscter back down into a 2D fighting world.

  • @Unquestionable
    @Unquestionable Před rokem +8

    At the time, and for quite a few years after, MvC2 was an absolute highlight of the genre. Fast forward a few years later I still love it but the flaws are more obviously. But no matter what it has cemented it's place in history as one of the greatest of all time, if only for sheer scope and the fun factor.

  • @batman369able
    @batman369able Před 4 měsíci +2

    I had this game when they released the remaster back in the late 2000s. Soon much fun and sooooooo many characters. Spidey, Rogue and War Machine were my go to team.

  • @nweditor875
    @nweditor875 Před rokem +7

    I amore MVC2 as a gamer having a physical copy in my collection is an amazing feeling.

    • @philiphanan1493
      @philiphanan1493 Před rokem +1

      I don’t own it on 360, but own the PS3 version with case plus a loose PS2 disc I keep in it plus complete copies of the DC and Xbox ports.

    • @nweditor875
      @nweditor875 Před rokem +2

      @@philiphanan1493 I still have my copy of PS2.

    • @trapdagoat8669
      @trapdagoat8669 Před rokem

      @@nweditor875 me too

  • @Turnpost2552
    @Turnpost2552 Před rokem +2

    I cant imagine RDJ and Tobey Macguire and Hugh Jackman playing this game.
    Yet there so relevant to this.

  • @BEAVISKORNHOLIO69
    @BEAVISKORNHOLIO69 Před rokem +6

    I love MVC 2 it's one of the best fighting games for sure

  • @blackflame4506
    @blackflame4506 Před rokem +6

    I had this game on the PS2 and I regretfully sold it... wish I still had it though because I play a crap ton of it back in the day.

  • @Blindy_Sama
    @Blindy_Sama Před rokem +3

    I had the first marvel versus Capcom played ridiculously.

  • @LowellLucasJr.
    @LowellLucasJr. Před rokem +4

    Ahh Marvel vs Capcom 2! Easily one of the greatest fighters ever made and still beloved classic for a reason!❤

  • @TUBERO2024
    @TUBERO2024 Před 8 měsíci +3

    MVC2 is the best 2D fighting game of all TIME.

  • @andrewfalconer8599
    @andrewfalconer8599 Před rokem +2

    The best fighting game mash up ever. One of the best fighting games ever.

  • @drfunkenstein2k
    @drfunkenstein2k Před 7 měsíci +2

    Yes, it was! Never have a seen a fighting game last sooo long in the tournament scene with the amount of entrys it had. Also, MvC2 resparked the FGC in 1999 and literally created the new FGC. People started playing other games because of Justin Wong's dominance of this one game for years to come at Battle by the Bay 5 and the EVOs to come.

  • @roysamuelexcellent310
    @roysamuelexcellent310 Před rokem +4

    Need this on current gen!! Mvc2 >>>> Mvc3 etc

  • @slasherhacker2116
    @slasherhacker2116 Před měsícem +6

    It’s MARVEL Baby

  • @chriscarmack1016
    @chriscarmack1016 Před rokem +2

    I still play this on my ps3 and any arcade I find that has it. Multi-player is still active.

  • @jakeybarra4015
    @jakeybarra4015 Před 8 měsíci +2

    My great cousin gave me that marvel vs capcom 2 dreamcast game at grandma's house when I was 13.

  • @partofthetribe3277
    @partofthetribe3277 Před rokem +3

    Glad they decided to go sprite based on this myself

  • @3_1_3rd_gaming
    @3_1_3rd_gaming Před rokem +8

    Large roster, banging music, legendary characters. This game had it all. It made the Dreamcast even more epic.

  • @darkseiddeath9812
    @darkseiddeath9812 Před 11 měsíci +2

    Forever will always have a place in my heart

  • @lwandomadikizela2213
    @lwandomadikizela2213 Před rokem +5

    Marvel vs Capcom 2 is one of the greatest tag fighting games of all time. Not even the KOF series can rival MvC 2.

    • @randomyoutuber7898
      @randomyoutuber7898 Před rokem

      Probably true but King of Fighters will always be better than street Fighter 🤷🏾‍♂️

  • @SurrenderedByGraceMinistry

    I started playing Marvel VS Capcom 2 around 2007?
    It was a great game man. I mainly played the arcade Marvel VS Capcom 1. MVC 2 was the best though. It is a trademark fighting game. I would own it to just look at the box and manual LOL 😆 😂

  • @bluetarantulaproductions6179
    @bluetarantulaproductions6179 Před 2 měsíci +3

    Still have my physical copy of MVC2 on PS2 to this day. Also own physical copies of X-Men vs. Street Fighter and Marvel vs. Capcom both on PS1. My team in MVC2 consists of Cable, Iron Man/War Machine and Tron Bonne (sometimes Wolverine).

  • @shedrickbenisrael9398
    @shedrickbenisrael9398 Před rokem +3

    honestly MVC2 will go down as one of the best fighting game of ALL TIME- it's been well over 20 years and it's still drawing fans. I'd it takes the route of guilty gear I'll play it again.

  • @01kdel
    @01kdel Před rokem +28

    One of the best fighting games ever made! Easily a favorite of mine. Lost my mind when I saw MvC2 in the arcade in Times Square back in the day.

  • @joshuajackson7050
    @joshuajackson7050 Před rokem +2

    I remember when this came out on the saga dream cast this game is legendary. Game brings back so many memories.

  • @danknhshinki73
    @danknhshinki73 Před rokem +2

    This is Marvel vs. Capcom's 25th year so we need a new title.

  • @EricSanAltarez
    @EricSanAltarez Před rokem +4

    MVC2 is a standard.
    It's much more polished in MVC1 but not too technical than MVC3. Not to mention they have always find new tech to the game than any other game is out there. It deserves a remaster, balance change.. sh*t girl, maybe DLC balance patches and possible DLC units if they wanted to. It has a rather large following for being a 20 year old game.
    The next game next to that for me, was CVS2. That game needs a part 3 for Capcom to hit another homerun like they did with SF6.

  • @nopenop1495
    @nopenop1495 Před rokem +3

    I always break this one out at the parties I go to.

  • @youtight8378
    @youtight8378 Před rokem +4

    This is definitely the best fighting game of all time. Shit I'll put this in my top 5 video games overall of all time.

  • @elgordobondiola
    @elgordobondiola Před 9 měsíci +3

    We don't need a new MVC game. We need a remake of this one.

  • @stephengrenleski1972
    @stephengrenleski1972 Před rokem +11

    If they'd only released Marvel vs Capcom 2 on the Nintendo Switch.....

    • @tyrobinson4665
      @tyrobinson4665 Před měsícem +5

      Boy do I have news for you

    • @sussygussy5457
      @sussygussy5457 Před měsícem +3

      Well well well

    • @drRunp
      @drRunp Před měsícem +3

      bro guess what

    • @lushomomunsaka3530
      @lushomomunsaka3530 Před měsícem +1

      You won't believe it

    • @BuckingBadger
      @BuckingBadger Před měsícem +2

      Do not be frightened traveler i have come from the future to tell you that MvC2 is released on the switch plus the PS4 and PS5
      Farewell *fades back into the current timeline*

  • @ensabahnur7657
    @ensabahnur7657 Před rokem +5

    We're STILL playing COTA, MSH, X-Men vs SF, Marvel vs SF, Marvel vs Capcom & Marvel vs Capcom2! The rest don't count!

  • @riggsison1974
    @riggsison1974 Před měsícem +3

    Great video Top 🎩 . Well done. These games are immortal.

  • @biggezee
    @biggezee Před rokem +3

    I still have my original Dreamcast copy of this game.

  • @crossface-qz4dm
    @crossface-qz4dm Před 4 měsíci +2

    Loved that Teddy Long reference

  • @Beliasa01
    @Beliasa01 Před 3 měsíci +3

    I just discovered I downloaded this on ps3 wayy back in 2010, and the online multi player still works.

  • @donypaddy6859
    @donypaddy6859 Před rokem +4

    Sad i never got to own a copy of the game for the PS2 or PS3 i would always see it at the arcades back in the day hope it gets a new release someday.

    • @firejoe283
      @firejoe283 Před rokem +4

      I'm an adult now. I have money. They need to re-release MVC2 lol

  • @EddyGordo21
    @EddyGordo21 Před rokem +4

    Instead of 2 wolverines, they could have put lilith... norimaro, mystique, phoenix, beast, Blanka...

  • @dustybunny6716
    @dustybunny6716 Před rokem +1

    I remember when I was enlisted pre 9/11 and our base had a machine in the rec room that didnt have any unlocked characters. I remember killing time on it while waiting for my laundry to finish when someone challenged me. I swiftly finished him off easily only to realize he was a Captain. Thought i was going to grt in trouble all of a suddden.

  • @masondelmundo6150
    @masondelmundo6150 Před rokem +2

    My favorite fighting game.

  • @orlandoracer407
    @orlandoracer407 Před rokem +4

    9:52 I think you forgot to mention Hayato from Star Gladiator

  • @LowellLucasJr.
    @LowellLucasJr. Před rokem +2

    I'm so sad poor Ruby Heart, Amingo and Son Son has never had another fighting game appearance. Perhaps some day....

  • @GTMQ8
    @GTMQ8 Před 10 měsíci +1

    For those who never played the Japanese Dreamcast version, in that one in order to unlock the characters you needed arcade points which meant having to go the local arcade and insert your VMU in the special slot by the controls to collect those points and later spend them on your dreamcast MvC2 game. I had this version but no access to Japanese MvC2 machine and my local game store luckily had a VMU save with everything unlocked which they lent me so I could copy it. Good crazy times and what a legendary game.

  • @hanzohattiori1737
    @hanzohattiori1737 Před rokem +2

    I wish they would figure out the licensing issues and bring this back to the new consoles.

  • @partofthetribe3277
    @partofthetribe3277 Před rokem +4

    I get genuinely pumped when your videos come out man. Great stuff buddy!

  • @trentcc08
    @trentcc08 Před rokem +3

    That was definitely one of the best fighting game ever!

  • @jjang2922
    @jjang2922 Před rokem +4

    Ultimate dreamcast game

  • @akbey3941
    @akbey3941 Před rokem +1

    This just reminded me of playing this in the bronx, NYC summer 2014 drinking beers at the laundromat near hoe avenue. The controller was messed up on 1 player side. I was actually living in a shelter at the time.
    Forgot all about that.
    I still play part 1 on my phone that I downloaded with an emulator.

  • @wingedhand2525
    @wingedhand2525 Před rokem +6

    It was a great game as a whole. The only bad thing about it was the soundtrack. It was horrible.

    • @philiphanan1493
      @philiphanan1493 Před rokem +1

      Theme’s fighting words. ‘Gonna take you for a ride!

  • @JoedEzekiel069
    @JoedEzekiel069 Před rokem +2

    Dude knew what he was doing with that thumbnail

  • @dean8705
    @dean8705 Před 7 měsíci +3

    One of the greatest games ever made. Loved it so much

  • @TheCookieFranco
    @TheCookieFranco Před měsícem +5

    WE'RE BACK BABY!!!!!

  • @derrickf8053
    @derrickf8053 Před rokem +3

    I love MvC2 and got the Dreamcast specifically for this game. That said, I still love Marvel vs. Street Fighter more. The music was so much better.

  • @elijohansen6651
    @elijohansen6651 Před rokem +3

    It was and still remains the best.

  • @tvMage
    @tvMage Před rokem +2

    mvc2 speed run world record is the dream run for now

  • @BORES911
    @BORES911 Před rokem +2

    I remember playing this game on the ps3 as a kid non stop I got a new ps3 and tried playing it again but couldn’t find it, turns out its removed from all stores

  • @Blumoon_vii
    @Blumoon_vii Před rokem +2

    Dream cast, thank u for this masterpiece

  • @NigelWatersFWA
    @NigelWatersFWA Před rokem +6

    Shouldn't the second Son-Son be "Daughter Daughter"? ...I'll see myself out...

  • @scottdecowski4913
    @scottdecowski4913 Před rokem +4

    The crown jewel of my video game collection is having MVC 1 & 2 on the Dreamcast 🤌

  • @User-pu3lc
    @User-pu3lc Před 3 měsíci +3

    The greatest roster in a fighting game to this day.
    I WISH we had something like this, sprite based 90s visual Capcom and marvel heroes in a 1v1 2.5D fighter with simplified inputs and great netcode. Would be the dream.
    Sadly, Disney owns Marvel today…

  • @Meme_Machine2034
    @Meme_Machine2034 Před 8 měsíci +3

    I still have my copy of Marvel vs Capcom 2 for Playstation 2

  • @startervisions
    @startervisions Před rokem +2

    it may not be the greatest arcade fighter ever, but it is probably the best of all time, if not one of