Pedal Power Amp! Orange Pedal Baby vs. SD Power Stage 170
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- čas přidán 6. 09. 2024
- Wouldn't it be amazing if you only had to take your board to the gig and still had a great sound out of your cab? Nowadays there are small and lightweight power amps that can help you. Here we take a look at the Pedal Baby by Orange... and while we're doing that we might as well compare it to the Power Stage 170 by Seymour Duncan.
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Gear from this video at Sweetwater:
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Usually jokes are funnier when you don't have to explain them, but in this case the opposite was true.
I thought this was a fantastic demonstration of the difference in sound and responsiveness between Class AB and Class D amplifiers. The toroidal transformer within the Baby is larger than the entire SD unit, so the Baby was easily out gunning the little guy for sound and performance.
Also, you understood a lot more of my video than I expected. Well done.
“Toroidal Transformer” would be a great band name!
My best friend was a Toroidal Transformer. He saved the planet, and they made a movie about him.
@@dreamcoma2213 he married FemaroidalTransformer .... their kid was pretty amazing
I have tried the Orange PB, SD 170 and the Fryette PS2 for powering a Line 6 Helix. The Orange is too dark and gives all models an Orange amp tone. The Fryette PS2 was very good and better then the Orange, but the best imo was the SD 170 for a Helix. The EQ controls on the 170 are VERY sensitive and adds a quick tweak when needed to any Helix model. Its sort of a powered EQ with great responce. Thats the one I kept and use for a Helix.
The neutral sound of the SD is why it probably works well with modelers. While the Pedal Baby is more amplike, that's not always the best with something like a Fractal or Helix.
I am trying the Orange and to me it is the polar opposite of dark. Has no low end, even cranked.
@Kathayne636 damn that's what I figured. Have you figured out how to get the low end back in it yet?
Class D amps don’t project the sound in my experience, it stays in the cab unlike a valve power amp, which fills the room. Fine for solo practice but no good for gigs, I would say
@@illgottengains1314 what?
The SD170 is only 170watts at 4 ohm, 85W at 8 ohm and ~47 at 16, and the Orange is 100w at 8 ohm and 70 at 16 ohm. so thats why there is some volume difference.
That is what I thought, Well explained thanks ! I don't know what is his cab's impedance, do you think it could have changed the sound ?
@@Guitube99 absolutely, volume is such an integral part of how our ears understand sound
I own both of these, and use a Line 6 HX Stomp as my preamp. I'll preface all this by saying I'm brand new to the digital world and until recently, my main amp was an Engl Screamer. I grew tired of carrying it up and down flights of stairs in a road case, plus in and out of the car every week. I'm certainly not getting any younger and I'm not at the status where I can have guys move my gear for me... lol
I started at first with the Orange. I thought it sounded really good, especially for a smaller unit. It did exactly what it was supposed to do... it provided power for my preamp. The one thing I noticed with it that I didn't hear in this video (might have missed it) is that it gets really, REALLY hot if you play it at an elevated level (above 9 o'clock on the dial) for any length of time. After a half hour set with my band, with the volume at roughly 10 o'clock, it was almost too hot to touch. Not really conducive when you have a quick stage turnover so the next band can get on.
That was the biggest motivator in me getting the SD170... along with the fact that the 170 can be board mounted, making life a little easier than it already was with the Orange. Also, the 170 has an internal cooling fan that keeps it pretty cool to the touch.
All in all, both are great amps in their own respects.
Tommy Pogue Bravo Pogue. I’m running AmpliTube direct into the PA now. I’m getting the SD next.
so which one sounded better? I have a helix floor as the preamp. Then looking at a 2x12 cab. thanks
Between both, which one has more amp feel in your opinion?
Just a tip, specially with theSD try using full amps instead of preamps from the Helix
@@lebroucke yup, I've been learning that with the podgo as well.. just for mo info
I dig the visual mojo of the Orange but it sounds like it's breaking up a bit where the Duncan is like prestine clean with no clipping. For me and my 80s chorus, crystalline clarity, Pull-Me-Under-Intro tendencies, I think I'd go for the Duncan.
I feel like they are for 2 totally different purposes.. the orange could be more for actual preamp pedals and such.. and the Seymour may be better suited for amp modelers like the helix and all that good stuff.. just maybe..🙂
Yup, you hit the nail on the head bro
I totally agree. I'm pretty sold on the pedal baby for a preamp/pedalboard setup, this comment reassures my choice 👍
all those beautiful amazing amps ... and no A/B switch ?
Played the SD unit through a 2x12 orange cab. It has been on my mind for months. Will have to seek out the orange unit. Not ready to give up my current rig, but it is nice to know about options. Thank you for the video.
For me, it's tone all the way. Especially if the cost is relatively the same. The Orange wins hands down for me. With the A/B power class, it means means I can crank the volume up on the Pedal Baby and keep the volume down on my clean pre amp pedal to give it that nice head room push without that class D degredation at higher levels. You just helped me confirm what I want.
Consider the ISP stealth 180w class A/B power amp as well.
Cool story. But then you got one and realized that it’s not nearly as transparent as you thought, and cranking the damn thing actually makes your clean preamp sound like hot garbage.
@@jakebergen1837 I'll have to look into that one. Cheers
A very simplified understanding (because that's all I got) is that the A/B class will produce the same wattage at 8ohm or 16ohm unlike a class D amp in which the watts will be cut in half everytime the ohms double.
No solid state power amps don't produce the same wattage at different ohms
100w at 8ohm, vs 70w at 16ohm unlike a class D which would lose the majority of watts at 16ohms.
The Power Stage is a clean power amp made to use with modelers
so is the pedalbaby..
The Foxgear Colt 45 is a 50watt amp in a standard b size pedal. It sounds great. Foxgear is owned by Gurus and Baroni-Lab so it has good credentials. Best of all it is only $125.00 USD. At the price you could buy two and go stereo.
The Orange sounds great with my Headrush Gigboard
I LOVED the technical explanation between Class AB and Class D. I spit my coffee and subscribed. Cheers!
If you were playing jazz (especially chord melody style) you'd want that extra bass from the Seymour Duncan. It's all about the style that you're playing and where you want the guitar to sit in the mix (if you're playing with other players.) If you want brashness, the Orange would get it. That could be useful for lead guitar solos in a rock band. These are two different tools that could be useful for two different purposes.
Love this guy!!! He provides such a cool and practical demonstration with an very entertaining presentation! I’m a fan! Keep up the great work brother!!!!!!
Thanks
The orange has the upper hand here, the Seymour is class D, basically the same amp that would be in a house stereo system
I find it strange that Quilter amps are never included in these solid state pedal platform mini amp comparisons. They’re probably the best in the category.
They are not included because they probably don’t work with CZcamsrs much. We can only talk about the gear we know and the gear we have reviewed. If they want their stuff to show up, they need to talk to us.
@@EytschPi42 I guess I just assumed that youtubers had the integrity to review well known products based on their merit and not if the company is paying them or sending them free products to review.
may as well get a randall solid state amp (RG3003) and have 300 watts to use pedal and play through
Ich bin ein absoluter Laie, melde mich dennoch einmal zu Wort. Hier zum max. Volume- Test (at 14:05 ). Das O. pedal baby befeuert Speaker ab Minimum 8 Ohm mit 100 Watt; ein 16 Ohm Speaker oder eine Speakerkombinationen, dann "nur noch" mit einer Ausgangsleistung von 50-70 Watt. SD startet mit einer Impedanz von 4 Ohm mit einer Abgabeleistung von 170 Watt, bei 8 Ohm bleiben dann "nur noch" knapp 85-105 Watt, bei einer 16 Ohm - Speakeraufnahme sind wir dann im "leisen" Bereich angekommen. Es ist daher nicht hohe Mathematik erforderlich um festzustellen, dass der Orange einfach lauter ist. Würde dieser für eine 4 Ohm - Abnahme ausgelegt sein, würde bei diesem 200 Watt + stehen.
I'm fairly sure what you describe as "amp-like" is simply tone-shaping circuitry. "Class AB" and "Class D" are simply mechanisms by which the signal is amplified to speaker level and both are capable of being transparent or "sterile" without additional tone-shaping. This comparison is basically Apples to Oranges (heh) because it seems that the SD Power Stage contains minimal tone-shaping circuitry and would be more suited for amp modelers, whereas the Pedal Baby contains more tone-shaping circuitry in order to be more suited for just pedals and preamps in the front.
Yep you nailed it 👍
This is a killer demo! You showed how to get the best sound out of both of them & a nice side by side so anyone teetering between these can now pick the best for their needs. Excellent!!
Is it just me or does this guitar look exactly like the Steinbergers that Vito Bratta played back in the day?? That's what I thought as soon as I saw it. For the younger guys - Vito played with White Lion & he was AMAZING! He was guitar hero "status" & just walked away from it all........
Thanks for the video dude!! Keep doing the good stuff!🤘😆🤘
I'm planning on getting the pedal baby and using my Terror Stamp as the pre-amp.... I suspect the Terror Stamp could be gigg-able as a clean amp this way
Hopefully you will compare those with the mooer tube engine
Definitely some good points here in the vid and comments... I've used the 170 for a while now and I've actually gotten to mess with the Pedal Baby as well. The Orange works really well with pedals in front of it, definitely puts out more than enough volume than I'd need as well. I've used the 170 for a while now with pre-amp/gain stage pedals like the Palladium and the EVH 5150 pedal and really liked how they sound in this setup, so I think both handle pedals very well. However I will say I think the 170 handles modelers like Helix and Axe FX a bit better than the Pedal Baby does though. And the 170 is definitely more portable which works well for my needs.
Hey can you go into detail of why the 170 might be better for a helix or axe fx?
@@collapseXvero Sure, I can try! Obviously it's a matter of personal preference, but for my taste I actually prefer the sound of the class D amp in the 170 over the A/B in the Pedal Baby in this instance, because I think the class D offers an even cleaner sound especially when cranked louder. The Pedal Baby has a bit more "punchy" type of sound to it (which some folks might want) when turned louder, but I find that it affects the tone I'm trying to get from the Axe FX in a way that I don't care for, again mainly when I'm turning it up louder for gigging/loud rehearsal levels. I will say that when turned up higher, I think the loudness of the Pedal Baby is higher than the 170 so if you're concerned about wanting maximum volume that might be worth considering. But for me I prefer the way the 170 pairs with the modelers. Plus, the 170 has the three eq knobs for bass-mid-treble, and Orange has it's customary bass & treble knobs, and for me I've just had better results with EQing the 170 to my liking than the Pedal Baby, again particularly when paired with the Fractal. Also, again for my personal needs, I prefer having the power amp and the modeler on the floor on a board, where I can easily tweak it and transport it. If you're using a rackmount setup then the Pedal Baby would be ok for sure, but I really like having the controls top-mounted on the 170 for quick easy use with the floor modeler right next to it. Not sure if this was any help or not for you. Again it's going to be up to your own ears and tastes, I think both the Pedal Baby and the 170 are great choices for this situation it just depends on your needs and tastes, and for me the 170 does all that I need for this. Cheers!
nvmbrsdoom5 for front in preamp pedal, does the 170 really have the poweramp amp feel or it’s more like just “audio amplier” kinda time? In your opinion.
@@collapseXvero the SD is flat so just add volume without changing tone. The Orange is voiced for guitar and it’s more like a guitar amp.
Can we get a redo with your helix as the preamp?
Whats a good, affordable power amp to use with the synergy modules? Don't really want to spend the cash on a Syn30 head
Nice review.
needing a preamp = expensive head unit for me.
I think if I needed to go that way, I'd get a used peavey bandit and de-cab it.
My thought is that a class AB amp is repairable and the class D is probly a throw it out n get a new one
So, you have proven that tone is measured by weight. I think this would be good as a second amp for a stereo rig. Perhaps with a Vox or Fender on the other side.
Speaking of preamps, have you considered demoing the Mooer Preamp Live?
with power amp connect to the cabs
Your AMP WALL is flipping me out, WOW ! How do you decide every day? What a great problem to gave! Thanks!😋
I used this with iridium in cab bypass mod.
Surprisingly it sounded really quite real. Maybe bc of the power ab mojo i guess.
Lmao .... when she said "its not funny " ... was lol funny .
The Duncan is designed to power modelers. That's why it's a class D, so it won't color the sound.
Power amp classes aren't about coloring the sound, but about fidelity. A class D will color the sound just as much as a class A or a class A/B, but in different ways.
So is the pedalbaby..
I do sort of wish you would have run a Synergy module through it (them) but I guess the Le Clean is the same idea.
Thank you Henning.
WE NEED AN ORANGE CR120 REVIEW DUDE😣😣
Dave S. go away from this body !!!
i just bought this a couple of days ago..im using it with my marshall cranked intoa two notes captor which is a reactive load box with line out (so i can creat reverb post power amp distortion...i line the signal into an alesis verb and into the orange pedal babe ..Its the best sound i have ever had ..incredible piece of kit ..ive used the D class amps like the hotone ..it just didn`t do it ..this thing is killer and i rarely ever comment on anything ...The class AB makes a huge difference for me ..hope thsi helps someone who is on the fence or wants to run something like the boss waza tube expander and a lower cost
wait, if you need a cab/speaker. why not just bring an amp? The Roland JC40 is light weight and sounds amazing
Can't fit a JC40 in my backpack mate...
The video you did a fast forward on reminded me of Portal 2. There is a test chamber where Glad0s is away to do something and she gave you the fast forwarded solution to the test chamber, sounded very similar to this. Extremely fun stuff.
So if I plug the pedal baby into a 16 ohm 1x12 with 80w power handling it would not blow out the speaker because the pedal baby would be at 70w correct?
It would only be putting out 70w if it was cranked anyways
Hahahahaha, doing the skit about what the skit could have been was a great idea :P 'It wasn't funny...' cracked me up. Nicely done.
Something else to consider, the orange is silent as it has no fan. The SD does have a fan, which apparently is always on in later versions. Not a biggie for gigging, but kind of annoying when you play at low volume in your bedroom.
Indeed ! In fact, that's the reason I sold mine...
I think you liked the Orange because it has a bit of hair to it when used by itself. I want a power amp to be a touch cleaner because I'm using a modeler. With amp in a box peds maybe the orange would be slightly better?
Dry as You Are? Surely by The Vaselines?
Well I just got one...and everything you said is exactly how I feel. The Pedal Baby is noticeably louder too.
Dude, you make me crack up in the best way!! Love it and now one of my favorite subs
The introduction alone made this vid worth it.
orange rocks my kemper
What this is .... is a very large baby. Orange must have hurt themselves squeezing that out of their R&D department.
Neither manufacturer actually tells you very much about these amps, but they are both solid state. As far as I know the Orange is analogue while the Seymour Duncan uses fast power switching transistors to produce a high frequency square wave which is pulse width modulated and then filtered to produce an audio frequency output. And as far as I know neither power amp tries to emulate how a valve amp output stage with a transformer drives a loudspeaker (or maybe they do?). So I expect you won't get the same loose coupling and colouration from the speaker, that you get with a valve amp. You cannot really say that they do not have pre-amps since they both accept guitar level inputs and have an EQ stage and from what you say they seem to have some fixed voicing - they aren't purely power amplifiers.
I enjoy the part where you... find a tone that clicks a thought in your head and you start playing .. and it's always good....
Been learning German for 1.5 year. I was gonna suggest that you should throw some German here and there. Und dann habe ich "Tier am Ende" gehört. Merci Henning ;-)
Using the Orange, u need a normal speaker cable and a "normal" guitar cable lengh, with the SD you will need a very big speaker cable from your pedalboard into the cabinet, talking about a live situation ofc
Mario Figueira , you can also place the SD on your cab.
I'm using the powerstage 170 with my helix and I think it sounds amazing. Personal preference I guess :)
Panther what speaker are you using buddy, a guitar or pa?
@@DavidWrayMusic Might be a LITTLE late to answer! I was using PS170 paired with my helix floor and through a 2x12 v30 cab. Now I'm using the pedalbaby with an HX Stomp through a 4x12 greenback cab. Sounds awesome! I'm looking into getting a travel friendly pedalboard, so probably getting a PS170/PS200 and another hx stomp or something like that :)
Wait so you’ve used both? How do you feel about the differences?
I do prefer the smaller formfactor of the PS170, but audio wise I do prefer the pedalbaby. It feels more like an actual amp when paired with the Helix...for me at least. Its an absolute BEAST when it comes to volume. The PS170 is a lot more travel friendly, but I'd still use the Pedalbaby. Right now I have a Helix rack with everything in a complete rack setup :)@@d77sauce
@@SevenGlitch Love that. My plan is the exact same. Helix Rack+Pedal Baby. Just want to try it out for high-gain tones and hear how it sounds.
There is only one question: what makes this more pedal friendly than any other (power)amp? And I still don't know the answer...
Don’t know about the Duncan but the Orange doesn’t have bright caps which apparently makes it more pedal friendly.
How about Mooer Tube Engine? How would it hold up against these two?
Is the pedal baby too loud four home use
I like de sound of the pedal baby without a preamp
If they ever do another Austin Powers movie, you really should be cast as a cousin of Dr. Evil.
He even sounds like him lol
I have a question. What is the best combo 4 high gain ang rock sounds ?
Awesome tone with the Ecstasy Blue + LeLead...wonder if other clean preamps would give results as good...
Wouldn't you need a very long cab cable with the sd170 if you ran it off your board?
yes
I’d like to see in a video your comments and reactions of the pedal baby 100 and the Synergy 5050 Power amp, also include the Victory V4 pedal amp just for fun, and the syn2 also 😃. I want to listen to the quality of the tone of the different power amps.
And Henning made me spend money again. Hopefully Thomann ships my Pedal Baby tomorrow. 🤘
When two notes anticipates Henning’s dialogue and names their product Le clean accordingly.
Diezel VH4 pedal + Powerstage 170 = God Mode.
Pedal Baby is a beast in any situation !!!
the graphics in the intro is really cool!!!
Great video! Do you think UAFX dream 65 pedal would make a good preamp style for the orange pedal baby if I turned off the cab sim on it?! Thanks!
I personally would go for the Lion
The point of the Orange is for the Helix/Axefx/Headrush guys to get closer to the real amp feel. I think they missed the mark though, it should come as a rack unit as well for the axefx guys
I would to like to see someone run 3 of these Orange amps with 3 cabs with a Kemper Profiler in a wet dry wet setup. That can also be done with other modellers that have 2 outputs to run different signal chains to each output \m/
Hey, Henning, would you use speaker cable or instrument cable to connect them to the cab? 🤔
Speaker
Which monitors you use? And what happens with the KRK sub 10s? Thanks!
I want to see what your pre-amp looks like. It’s a Seymour Duncan product ?
Sounded cool with that on.!
I have already thought about how to build a pedalboard around the ORange.
Great pedal platforms, but I think I found a better one.
Harley Benton GPA-400, and no one made any rewievs on that yet, so if you do you will be first.
GPA 400 is not a very good pedal platform, unless the pedal is very amp-like. It's VERY loud at 8 ohms(bridge mode), and surely gigable 16ohms too, even though the power is quite reduced by then. I want something a bit more colored, so I'm gonna buy the pedal baby and see if it suits me better.
Hi Dude, thanks for your time making this video, im from Brasil and i always watch your videos, including your backing tracks to improve the improvise skills. Lets the point, this video is very important for the interested in this set. Im trying to find the rigth equipment to use with my modeler (MOOERGE300Lite). The main point is the possibility of use the IR together the signal. So, im assembly a cab (fisycal cab) with a FRFR speaker, there is a brand producing in my country. Do you think that will be a sucesfull combination or not ? I ask to you because i really think that is it important, all the videos in YT about this product are using the Pedal Baby with modelers, but always with the cab simulator or the IR mode off. This simple thing reduce a lot the possibilities of tones in this kind of equipment. For example, I would like so much to be abble to make a choice if i will use a JCM800 with a 4x12 V30 or a 2x12 creamback, that will result in a big difference. So, i will appreciate so much if you can take your time to answer this question. Thanks a lot.
Took mine back. It colors your sound a bit too much for my use. Can't seem to get passed that Orange mid- hump flub regardless of what you feed it. Better suited for ambient clean sounds NOT high gain sounds. Great if you play up to stoner rock.
i still laughed at the explanation of the skit xD ahhahahah xD nice pun xD
Does either have an effects loop?
class ab vs d i choose d for powering / heat
How do you like the Dark Sun un stereo so far?
You stumbled into the best bit of self efacing humor I've seen all day. Good job. Thank you Leslie.
Does sound good but I will still use my tube combo.
Why am I just learning about this now????
how would the pedal baby serve as a poweramp for a syn 2 rack mount?
not bad
Great video. The orange tone really sings compared to the powerstage 170. I wonder how these compare to the ehx 44 magnum (I imagine it will be similar to the powerstage). And also how they compare in tone to a valve power amp - I use a helix and want to run it to a 2x12 or 4x12 with a power amp. I have the 44 magnum and the sound is ok but after hearing the orange it's a really triggering my GAS for the singing tone I heard towards the end of the video (18:23 - 18:35 compares the same riff between SD and Orange)
I like your jokes. The self depricating deadpan delivery makes them work =)
Hmm I’m not sure about the Ehx 44 magnum didn’t go down too well on the pedal show. I have the 5mm and it’s quite noisy and not really comparable to the Orange or the Duncan. I own a SD power stage 170 and an Orange super crush 100 which has the pedal baby as it’s clean channel. I agree with Henning that the tone of the Orange is preferred. Also the Orange pedal baby gain structure is similar to Fender gain structure according to the designer.
will thiese take a line signal..considering either as a power amp to run my two notes captor into ..the captor is being fed by a marshal jmp 50 ..im guessing i would need line level ..pedals are instrument level are they not ?
I don't think you need a captor... I think you should be able to run a preamp directly into it
@@EytschPi42 thanks for the reply but what i need is the power amp distortion of the flly cranked marshall..im suing another pwoer amp at the moment but this looks great ..all i need to know is it line level ..really no one mentions it ..i assume its most likely instrument level though
The pedal baby is 0dBu (.775v) . Its not instrument level. But it will distort if +4dBu is used.
3:53 That's how I watch all vids except tone sample sections :) my speech pattern is very disrupted thanks YT
Flip Wilson was my favorite judge but the car was cool to the blue ones ooh my here comes the Judge :)
Add a Mid and Presence control to the Orange and I would be very tempted.
Why do you need a mid control on a poweramp? Aren‘t you supposed to control that on the preamp?
@@erlannderrantem6972 that's a good point. I forgot about the mid controls on the pre amp.
The Pedal Baby EQ is different from your typical EQ section. It's less to shape the sound and more to compensate for the size of cabinet.
@@ScienceofLoud ya good point Colin. I am so use to an amp head or combo!
A power amp can not be run without a preamp. Both amps have at least a modest preamp or you could not plug a guitar into them.
So if Orange is paying for the video did they pay you to choose their product over the SD ?
no, they can’t. That would be highly unethical and I don’t play those games.
Oh my, asking Henning to review stuff is a statement of how confident your are about your product... Henning has roasted products sent to him more than once, and of course they deserved it, if it's crap, it's crap. Henning is one of the few youtubers I can actually listen to and expect honest and neutral comments.
Can I have a link to that Colin Scott's channel? =)
¨Pedal Pradä¨😂 Keep ‘em coming.
I need to know where you got that hoodie from
mrgugu, link below
I thought it was an Orange Product demo.
You just need a Metal Zone...Right ?
Hahahahaha I imagined the joke and I think it could be funny. My GF has the same sense of humor as Leslie hahaha
Does a wampler pinnacle deluxe v2 work as a preamp?
It isn't a preamp, but with the Orange it will work fine. Preamps put out way more signal than traditional pedals.
Form Factor is the term you're looking for.
14:12 Duncan
14:26 orange
Henning, why the Toneking as a cab? Just for sound? Personally I'd benefit more from a more well-known cab/speaker combination to get an accurate impression of whatever you're demoing.