Brotherhood of Steel - East vs West
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- čas přidán 31. 05. 2016
- The BoS is known for being technophiles but they don't always see eye-to-eye. Which coast do you side with? Wanna see more videos from Andrew? 'Like' and 'Share'.
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and then there is the midwest which said, fuck it, if it can walk, it can be recruited...
Not unlike the present USN 😂
Fallout Tactics. Honestly, I had hoped Fallout 4 would return to form of the classic games in terms of the SPECIAL, Skills (Max: 300%; 155% Small Guns, 105% Sneak, 175% Steal, etc ), Traits, and Perks. But I digress. The Midwest Chapter was like okay we got raiders to kill, tribals can join. Beast Lords? Okay, ghouls you can join. Super Mutant Army!!! What the hell? These Death Claws can talk! Behemoth robot walking tank........Super Mutants you can join. Reavers join us or die. Holy Shit, look at this Brotherhood of Steel we got now!
Midwest Brotherhood of Steel. If it can walk, talk, and follow orders it can join. I could imagine a BoS MW commando company raiding a Caesar Legions Out Post. Death Claws taking out sentries and patrols. While Ghouls and Humans sneaking around disarming mines and traps. With Super Mutants, Paladins, and Robots waiting to unleash Hell.
+IdleDrifter i think tactics is (sadly) uncanon
The Midwest Brotherhood are mentioned in the games after it. What exactly happened aren't gone into specifics though.
+Dustin81 i looked it up. it's something like half-canon. some stuff is but not all
West Coast BoS: Slowly dying out
East Coast: We gotz da giant war robot, we gotz da people's trust, we gotz easily explodable air ships, we gotz it all
Poofbomb - Minecraft & More! You’re so cute!!
Donald Percival SUCK IT
@@donaldpercival544 yea ok, SIMP!!
i always imagine some east coast brotherhood knights in powerarmor kicking some muant butt with the doom theme playing in the background...
They need new Empire in the eastcoast
east vs west. Crips vs Bloods. Cookie Monsters vs Elmos.
war. war never changes
Pres. Aaron Kimball Any proof of these war crimes commonwealth citizen?
Cookie life!
This comment deserves more likes and comments. I'm sorry that for a time span of 2 years, you still haven't been given what you deserve.
Big B's all day
What about the Brotherhood in Midwest?
I love how the first clip from new vegas shows a baddie glitching through the ground. Ahh new vegas, you beautiful buggy mess.
But still the best out of the 6 Fallouts I've played
no
+Anferny Crab ikr
At least fnvs bugs were funny, fallout 4 replaced the funny bugs with game breaking ones.
At least fnvs bugs were funny, fallout 4 replaced the funny bugs with game breaking ones.
Answer:
Midwest Brotherhood.
The one that ignores all rule yes
Lovely
They might not even be cannon
@@nukclearfunykmyu6999 They partially are. Kells mentions that some West Coast members were sent with a fleet of older airships to the Midwest but that they were never heard from again, directly referencing the Midwest Brotherhood's origins.
DeadRaiser in canon there are references to the Midwest, and it’s said a small unit is operating in Chicago and Montana
@@DeadRaiserGaming where are they now I hope bethesda make a Fallout in the midwest
The west-coast brotherhood clearly haven't played enough crusader kings 2. you don't marry your cousin, you marry some genius peasant
Crusader Kings 2: Eugenics simulator
Or if you're feeling crazy, deviant simulator in which you try to make your rulers as batshit insane as possible.
That, or you're trying to play seriously and then the fucking Karlings prevent you from doing anything.
Nah fam, just marry a horse. Always works for me.
You marry a genius peasant... and so does everyone else in your dynasty, damn prestige and all, I will have a perfect dynasty!
only if you're a plebian, real chads convert to zoroastrianism and only marry their own mother
No. You marry a powerful ally then use your kids to secure potential claims and alliances and declare war on every enemy you can while using your new allies to send you armies.
coming from 6 years in the army. chains that bind is a logistical, administrative and tactical nightmare
It sounds like the military doctrine used going into World War 1, not only does it slow down commands, it prevents lower ranking officers responding to battle field conditions. Then their is the chaos and moral issues that arise when an officer is killed.
With the field commanders being miles behind the front line and not even understanding whats happening, so many opportunities were lost as well as lives because of that during world war 1, infantry might break the enemy lines and the commanders wouldn't sent reinforcements to hold the trench or the infantry would be getting slaughtered and the command orders them to keep fighting and the soldiers and officers in the battle can't disagree
There's also something called Groupthink. Look it up. Brotherhood is ripe with hypocrisy.
The military actually has this. It's known as command authority and general military authority.
For Christ’s sakes, is no one gonna thank this guy or girl for his service - I’m Australian so the likelyhood of you serving for my nation is little, but nonetheless - Sir no matter who you serve, your people are thankful and all people in the free world thank you for your service. Cheers from a random Australian citizen.
Obsidian blows Bethesda out of the water when it comes to writing.
The whole experience of NV was just more immersive imho. Graphics were the only complaint but that's to be expected.
+mikael leheckenbooger I liked the overall plot motivation of fallout 3 the general atmosphere and npcs/factions of new Vegas and the companions of fallout 4, for me they all had strong points.
Fallout 4's companions are better than Fallout 3's, but that's not a high bar. New Vegas' companions are by far the best written. I do legit like a few of Fallout 4's companions, just most fall flat with me.
Well I liked Nick Piper and Curie in 4, i havent tried Cait or Hancock yet, so i cant judge them, NV companions overall were good, i love ED-E, veronica and Lilly are interesting, i still want to try out Raul. And while i find Cass funny at times her and Boone just dont strike much of a cord with me personally, so overall i prefer fallout 4's companions just barely. On the bright side they are by far Bethesda's (since nv is Obsidian) best companions, which means they are hiring better writers in some area's, so we'll hopefully see deeper companions in TES 6 and fallout 5. and i haven't played far harbour yet, but i hear it's more fallouty than the main quest
You do Acrade Gannon's quest?
0:13 That bark scorpion though. Flawless footage
Cthulhu agrees with kocurros statement
is master kocurro pleased with the ballarms quality footage?
HZDeadMeat yuss
Hello Kocurro.
Huh. Kocurro is everywhere...
Brotherhood
East
West
Civil War
Thay would be sick
what about the Texas and Mid west Brotherhood chapters?
Ben Dover Heretics.
Jason Brody it would be cool to see a dlc for fo4 that you go to Chicago and if you're with the BoS the eastern and the Midwest chapters would come in contact and who knows what could happen ...
The midwest would help the east and texas would help the west
The BoS seen in NV is not the Western Chapter, it is the Mojave Chapter.
The Western Chapter is much larger and it's based in Lost Hills, as referenced by Fallout 4 lore that states that Maxson got into contact with the Lost Hills Brotherhood.
The EBoS met the WBoS so the WBoS passed its xenophobia onto Maxson.
3 years late but I highly doubt xenophobia was passed on to Maxson from the Westcoast, Maxson grew up East Coast fighting the rampant super Mutant threat, on top of the fact that overtime the east coast mutants are far more savage and dumb compared to the the very original west coast mutants. Kinda hard not to hate mutants and ghouls when you spend your whole life fighting genocidal rampaging super mutants and exterminating masses of feral ghouls all in return for next to nothing from the wastelanders you protect (most of the time).
@@OXY187 I explicitly stated they exterminate feral ghouls, pre war ghouls are extremely rare, and not nearly as important to the BOS than average wastelanders. The average person who survived the great war and turned ghoul will likely not know anything about advanced technology, the cabal that ran the U.S. government pre-war, who fired nukes first etc, much like how the average citizen today will not suddenly have the cumulative information of our entire society poured into one person. A normal person isn't suddenly going to know how to rebuild the entire supply chain for making plastics and all the machinery and tech involved in doing so. The BOS preserve not just tech, but history and scribes likely have a far far far stronger education than the average wastelander and better understanding of technology and the political structure that ran the old world far better than (most) pre-war ghouls, exceptions being very high status, extremely important people turned ghouls.
@@mw5769 Still , Maxson has some Lyons in him, he order his troops to activelly protect the Commonwealth Wasteland by figthing ghouls and supermutants which are basically super raiders and zombies .
They even figth raiders sometimes I guess
That dude really does want to protect the people of the brotherhood and the wasteland , doesn't him?
@@GabrielAlves-fw7bj no he doesn’t, he’s doing it for his benefactors, if you actually pay attention to playing fallout 4, Maxson sent me to get materials from a few settlement and they didn’t have enough/want the brother hood protection
@@xIIM40A3IIx that was for the shop guy right I don't remember maxon sending us to collect from the settlements
The East Coast way gets shit done more quickly and efficiently; you're not stuck waiting for something to be bumped up and down the chain of command when you're in a trouble spot. It's more flexible, as to allow for adaptation in the face of unknown variables.
Brotherhood was gonna have to clean the mutants up sooner or later if they wanted to effectively comb the ruins for lost tech; might as well do it while there are other people left alive in the wasteland, too. I just wish the East Coast chapter kept to Lyons' ways.
the chain of command can be very flexible if applied properly. for major orders, the chains that bind make since. a report flows up to the level nessisary for the operation and then the orders of how to respond follow down the same path in reverse. it does not go to the top every time. as a special operant of the brotherhood you would be held under the direct command of the top person or atleast the main handler and you would not be part of the main command structure. as for not letting outsiders into their ranks, this is where the brotherhoods thoughts were flawed. if you cannot effectively replace your numbers, you cannot keep your fighting effectiveness.
The problem of the west coast is the NCR, a very organised group of many settlement that can overwelm them. They sure need to evolve, sure, but east coast had it way easier.
The Eastern BoS mixed both traditional BoS and Lyon teachings they even use the Maxon Doctrine the Maxson Doctrine is to study tech learn what you can then give it back to humanity the Western BoS doesn't do this but the Eastern and Midwestern (may be wrong) do
John Wotek fuck I hope in fallout 5 we see an all out war between the NCR and the east coast bos. Two massive factions in a war bigger than we’ve seen in fallout history and the consequences could be bigger than in any fallout game we’ve seen. Maybe we even get a middle of the United States Colorado game, Denver with its vast scapes would be a great place for the war.
@@thecourier7964 Can't see the Eastcoast BoS or NCR making contact with one another. Would like to see a bigger Westcoast Faction pop up in some form - such as in Legion Territory in a Post 2nd Hoover Dam Battle timeline when the Legion starts falling apart from in-fighting.
It wasn't just right from a moral standpoint that the east coast Brotherhood abandoned some of the traditions of the western Brotherhood, it was necessary for its survival. In Fallout: New Vegas, Elder McNamara freely admits that the western Brotherhood was in decline and that they (himself included) were too proud and inflexible to adapt to the times. If this inflexibility continues, the western Brotherhood will likely be non-existent in under 100 years. Neither Elder Lyons nor Elder Maxson were perfect, but at the very least they had the foresight to know that the Brotherhood must learn to adapt or risk dying out.
you have a fine point but they have hardly changed for the better, the commonwealth chapter at least has not
the fact that they are callous enough to send you to kill your own mentor and the reason your in the brotherhood at all disgusts me
+Alex Smith true but you can refuse to do it and Elder Maxton will let him go. He won't admit it out loud and officially marks them as dead, but he seemed to approve of the decision.
Redbeard357 one case but the western brotherhood was not brainwashed by one mans ideology and stature in the said faction they all had thoughts and worries paladin danse pails in comparison to his female comparison while the weat fails to adapt they remain reclusive and only a select few know they are out there not like the east which literally flew in a on a underpowered blimp which u can destroy in a mere moment in game quest ofc but still it takes a entire game for nv and like 55% of the F4
Welp I destroyed the brotherhood in every game but they just keep coming back!!!
501st Clone Trooper yet somehow cousers still keep finding them 🤔.
I want New Vegas 2, WHO IS WITH ME
As long as I get another Fallout game made by Obsidian... I am happy :P Just in another location... Maybe Seattle or maybe go to the Midwest or whatever
For me its not precisely another obsidian but something away from where the big games have been such as you said with Seattle or Midwest. Somewhere in the deep south would be cool as well
Utah or Boneyard (L.A) would be nice.
This is too good to happen.. I was so disappointed with Fallout 4. It just didn't deliver..
I do
I fucking swear, I am going to petition that mobile strike app. I can't take a shit without Arnold whispering in my ear "The best Defense....is defense tee hee".
This comment is great
All i get is witcher dlc, it looks pretty sexy but you can only see geralt almost get mauled by a vampire so many times before it gets old
I have played all Fallout games and I honestly think that the East Coast Brotherhood are the best. They have the same power as the West Coast Brotherhood, but instead of keeping to themselves and only wanting to help others if it helps themselves they decided to break protocol and help others.
The East Coast BOS is following the Maxon Doctrine
Find and protect technology,study it,then return it to humanity
@@pelinalwhitestrake8195 Seems as though a lot of chapters of the Brotherhood disregard the "return it to humanity" part. Except for the East coast chapters. They seem like bros. West coast...eh not so much.
I think the main reason they are so accepting is because they have no choice. Their numbers are too few to exist alone, and they are disconnected from the main branch so they have to adapt or die out. I like the Eastern Brotherhood more though
@@averybishopmartin6964 ya the reason why the Brotherhood was created was to find and protect technology so they can return it they were created to help humanity rise from the ashes like a phoenix
I mean the East Coast chapter is technologically superior. Prydwen, T-60 power armors out the fucking ass, vertibirds, and fucking Liberty Prime. And Maxson is a damn good Elder whether you like him or not
The BOS are a military, their strength is in effeciency. It would be a complete contradiction to have such a literal usage of the chain of command. I feel like those rules read on that terminal were an oversight on Obsidian's part or perhaps people are reading too much into it. In the real military we have a strict chain of command as well; but, no one took it literally, you would be pretty damn stupid if you did. What would you do if you were in a combat situation and your division commander approached you with an order? Would you seriously tell them no? Absolutely not, because the military depends on efficiency to work effectively; meaning that things flow naturally. The BOS wouldn't last five seconds in a heated scenario if they needed everyone to go through the chain of command, it would be like waiting on Congress to pass a bill.
There a military techno cult, so it shouldn't shock anyone that their chain of command is less then effective on the battlefield as it was deigned by isolationists who's preferred tactic was not to get involved with the wasteland.
It depends on how literal the chains that bind is and what the context is. The other thing to remember is that basically nobody knows about the second part, even Hardin who had something to gain from knowing about that second part did not know about it most likely because nobody actually read it for years because everyone always assumed it only meant 'follow those above you' and not 'orders must flow through ranks'.
Furthermore you could argue some things are 'requests' rather than orders. Such as 'get me a coffee' :D. While you could within rights refuse a request, it wouldn't make you particularly popular :D. So it's unlikely anyone ever refused a request and didn't actually realize they technically could believing that requests and orders were the same thing. Also on a side note to the video the Lone Wanderer shouldn't even be mentioned because they aren't necessarily in the Brotherhood, just working alongside their interests making Lyons mission a request rather than an order.
Whereas when Elder McNamara orders those three Knights of Hardin's on a mission without telling him and gets them killed in consequences, that is a pretty serious breech of chains that bind because Hardin could have discussed the mission and his insights with McNamara which is the point of that rule but those two have very different ideals, mostly due to McNamara being slightly more peaceful after the disaster at Helios 1 whereas Hardin is very aggressive and perhaps McNamara did not want the confrontation or complication and wanted to quietly gain intelligence.
Just my 2 cents from the Infantry. The "Chains That Bind" is a rehash of the chain of command (COC) of modern western militaries. I understand that his coffee example seems simple enough but in reality if the Ensign was not performing any other tasks at the time he would likely grab the coffee. The critical importance of the COC is during operations and combat, and you have to train and live that way if you expect it to happen in battle. If a Brotherhood soldier was say, providing critical over-watch of a key tactical position in a battle, and Elder Lyons himself strolled up, but lacked the total tactical picture he might attempt to order the BOS soldier to perform a separate task. In your system the BOS soldier would follow Elder Lyons and then NCR troopers could flank an unsuspecting BOS unit that was counting on that over-watch. As well we know that administrative sections of all para-military and military units are Top heavy (as in way to many know-it-all WOG officers) So we would have Scribe "superiors" and Maintaince "superiors" telling BOS soldiers that they know how to soldier better. The average BOS Rifleman is then saved by the same thing that saved me from this nonsense BS in Afghanistan, "Sir, im currently following orders from my COC, you need to talk to them" and then carry on with your mission unencumbered by "superiors" (in rank alone) who figure all their time in the communications trade taught them the best way to carry ammo. So I know it seems like a cumbersome system, but with proper orders from your own superiors before a mission, the Chains that Bind (COC) is liberating for the average soldier on the ground doing the business.
This was very insightful. Thank you :). Also insightful was your reference of BS in Afghanistan :).
That's even useful outside of the military for the same reasons, generally less at stake but same situation, upper middle management comes in and thinks they can improve efficiency with a few gut instinct suggestions on what you should be doing with understanding the workload or flow of the department.
what about the Midwestern Brotherhood of Steel?
We don't talk about them.
they're not in the brotherhood, they were kicked out i guess you could say.
+Venom “Ahab” Snake canon
+Doc Noir lmao
+Doc Noir lmao
"The Chains that Bind" is essentially the military chain of command, overtly and detrimentally influenced by what is at it's core a sort of religious dogma. The BoS started out as a military uni, and devolved into a quasi-templar order. And they suffer greatly for it.
As for the Brotherhood themselves, I like the Midwest chapter, with their what is really a feudal kingdom, if one that is rightly managed if you go with the Warrior ending. I /love/ Lyons East Coast chapter, and was so extremely disappointed with what they've become in FO4. My Wanderer thought better of you, Arthur.
The only true problem I see with Maxson's "administration" is the synth racism and indoctrinated dogmatism. They more or less accomplish what Lyons set out to do. They up their manpower and address threats like raiders and super mutants by actually sending in strike teams. They also up the ante when it comes to research, and for her part, Scribe Neriah does a good job. She should one-up Quinlan if she gets the chance. If somebody mods in the cut Litany questline, I'd love to invoke that shit and give Maxson, Kells, and Quinlan a hard boot off the flight deck, sans power armor.
@@AdamMcCann1178 Maxson and Kells I agree with, but what's your beef with Quinlan? He's probably the least douchiest member of that command crew sans Danse
@@jacobrobinson787 Quinlan's an asshole who sees everyone outside of the Brotherhood as potential cannon fodder; he says as much in the Minutemen ending.
@@ethanschenck9714 so BECAUSE he's utilitarian towards people he's an asshole? He's probably the only one who shows Lyons' ideology deep inside, as he ultimately wants a safer wasteland, he just understands people will have to die for that, and in his mind why shouldn't it be someone else's army instead of BOS soldiers.
@Hi How Are You? whether or not they're truly human doesn't mean you can't be prejudiced against them. That's like saying the Prawns in District 9 deserve to be oppressed because they're not humans either. To me, it doesn't matter whether they were born or not. Perhaps their feelings and personalities aren't "real." They seem real to me, but let's assume for a second that they aren't. Even then, you would be comfortable mistreating them, even callously slaughtering them, because those feelings aren't legitimate? If that idea doesn't set off your conscience, I worry for you. Even if it's not true self-awareness or whatever you want to call it, it's certainly close enough that it would make me uncomfortable. And since it's effectively impossible to determine if a gen 3 synth is a synth until after they're dead, this effectively becomes a way of saying "I shouldn't feel bad about killing anyone unless I can do an autopsy afterward and prove they weren't a synth."
I don't disagree that the synths shouldn't have been created in the first place. It's yet another one of those "we spent so much time figuring out if we could that we didn't stop to think if we should" moments, like Jeff Goldblum's character from Jurassic Park spoke of. It's not just an abusive of science to create something you can't control, but also to create something with such messy ethical implications. It's like parents having children they're not prepared to take care of. You can't abort a baby once it's born. Sure, you can kill it, but that's not ethical, is it? And perhaps synths don't have true free will, but they're close enough that it's splitting hairs. We absolutely should not be creating more. Shutting down the Institute's synth production lab should be everyone's priority, even the Railroad agrees with this, albeit for very different reasons than the Brotherhood.
And of course, I'm not at all surprised that the Brotherhood views synths the way they do. You seem to think I am; I'm not. But just because it's what I expected doesn't mean I have to like it. I don't like this whole "end justifies the means," "greater good" shit, and I certainly don't like that the Brotherhood is so self-righteous that they think that they're only ones who know what's right. I appreciate having some confidence that you're doing things the right way, but being so locked into your entire belief system that you never question any of it _is not good_. The unwillingness of all three of these factions (Institute, BoS, RR) to consider any perspective other than their own is a weakness, not a strength. They're all committed to waging war on one another and killing an effectively unlimited number of people to achieve their goals. I get it, the world of Fallout is a dangerous place, but solving every problem with violence ensures a cycle of violence. This kind of shit doesn't end. The idea that once you kill enough people, there won't be anyone left to threaten your peace is absolute nonsense. There's always going to be something rocking the boat. There'll always be another crisis or another rebellion. No civilization lasts forever, but the ones that wage unsustainable wars do not last as long as the ones that don't. The lesson we should have learned from the Great War is not just how dangerous technology can be, but how dangerous it can be when people don't work together to solve problems peacefully. Nuclear technology didn't get us here on its own. It got us here because it was used for war. War got us here, war will not get us out.
I love how the Fallout 4s brotherhood has integrated the color scheme of the Outcast, they went from Grey metal, to a black and red pallet on the armor.
Brotherhood of Steel under Lyons was the best.
exactly
In FO3 i had hope the BoS had finally seen the light and started using their power for a cause greater then hoarding all tech.
In FO4 all those hopes where squashed like radroaches.
Seriously 2287 East coast BoS is worse then west coast BoS!
Agreed. they helped a lot of people and aren't racist.
Yup as they were without them they are basically bigoted, technology obsessed, cold hearted war machine
they ignored the true cause of the BoS. Lyons was a traitor.
I always liked the Enclave.
cooler outfits usually denote the bad guys
Hugo Boss agrees with you
kotzpenner There's a man who knows exactly what I mean
Their ideals for the water were much better to be honest, he suggested using the water to institute a new government; that was the exact idea for the East Coast Enclave, President Eden had no command over the Enclave.
Those Brotherhood fools are so short sighted. They know nothing about nation building. Autumn lives!
The separation of the Brotherhood of Steel's Eastern and Western sects seems to be quite similar to the Great Schism of 1054, except instead of churches, we have a military order in a post-apocalyptic world.
And in Fallout the East is changing things, rather than the West.
now that you mention it, its really similar to that
The East Coast Brotherhood of Steel under Elder Lyons is my favourite and I have played all the Fallout games. Lyons was doing the right think by helping the people of the Wasteland, but the Brotherhood shouldn't be the ones doing everything, they should have made something like the Minutemen to deal with smeller things like smell raider group and so on.. the Brotherhood themself should deal with Super Mutants and bigger raider group. They should also have do like the Outcast and buy tech from Wastlanders, I have always be disappoint that you as the player couldn't sell or even give things to someone in the Citadel, as you get laser weapons and power armor from fight the Enclave and I rarely used the T-51 power armor from Fort Constantine. some people would become "tech hunters" to earn caps (or whatever they would be payed with) by selling thing to the Brotherhood.
Ikr their are other factions that help Rivet city security does a little, Reilly's rangers, regulators etc the brotherhood of steel are awesome especially elder Lyons and Lyons pride was great , being a paladin in Lyons pride was a great honor and joy to be apart of , being a noble man in knight armor going in warzones fighting the good fight defending the good people of the Capitol wasteland again the vile and brutal hordes upon hordes of super mutants bringing Noth but death and darkness onto our lands . Your right about bringing power armor and energy weapons to the brotherhood of steel and building them up, I wish that was a option to collect power armor and energy weapons and recruit people and give them power armor and training etc and position knights more around the Capitol wasteland, I single handedly found over 250 enclave power armor suits and 2 times the weapon too and some vertibirds I could of built multiple platoons of knights lol
0:14 And here you see the elusive glitch beast in its natural habitat...
Elusive..? Nah common af
1 more day. 1 more fucking day, until the Storyteller!
HELL YEAH!!
yessss
(Cums on the screen)
oh shit lmao
*mouth foams*
The failure to adapt and change with the times dooms many empires. Reminds me a lot of Sparta and Rome. The West, like Sparta, is clinging to a society and structure of a bygone age, and slowly withering away in its stubbornness to not introduce reforms.
The East, like Rome, adapted their philosophy and structure and it allowed them to grow and assimilate locals into their ranks, thus giving them the manpower to actually do something and become the bad asses we see in Fo4
Here is a thought Sparta grew weaker and weaker but it a stable government and really didnt havr internal problems while republic rome was filled with huge amounts of corruption and empire rome and a huge crisis always after they had a emperor die so The West BoS is extremely stable but weakens over time and The East BoS is extremely adaptable but can fall to pieces if some goes wrong like when the airship get blown up
Luis Chavez No you’re completely wrong. Even if the west coast BoS are strong the NCR could literally wipe them out in a day if they wanted to with their numbers. Also even if the prydwen is blown up. That is just an expeditionary force. The majority of the BoS during fallout 4 is still in the capital wasteland.
then rome got destroyed from within because of those local cultures that dont assimilate. both will collapse but in different time
West Coast Brotherhood: Closer to the Samurai and Japanese culture
East Coast Brotherhood: Closer to modern day governments
West coast: weebs
East coast: yanks.
Both equally terrible, but better than the institute
@@darthmusturd9526 What about the Enclave then?
@@keinjunin592 enclave is basically east coast brotherhood
@@darthmusturd9526 ah yes the enclave that wants to kill all humans because they are impure is the same as the BoS
@@darthmusturd9526 Hmm Yes , Genociding the wasteland because some rads were taken is just like the East Coast brotherhood , it's not like the brotherhood helped 2 wastelands figth off supermutants and gave them safety and clean water .
That's like the Joker telling Batman that he's like him
Obsidian can't be 100% on the lore....XD BRO parts of Obsidian are MADE UP OF BLACK ISLE...Who made Fallout 2 and whom authored the fallout bible SIMPLY to ensure that it followed the lore of the ORIGINAL GAME! They repeated this process In Fallout New Vegas...
Dude i feel the same when people say this stuff as well.
people still forgot stuff you ignoramus, please educated yourself.
dude chill wtf this was a nice comment area untill now
+Isaiah “Dovahbear” Robert "please educated yourself", has the pot met the kettle?
To be technically correct, Bethesda now owns the franchise, and therefore, the lore.
the capital chapter was pretty great with what they were doing ,but that changed in some ways around the time they arrived to boston , scaring farmers for food is not my cup of coffee
No need to scare them, that's the players choice
i know its an option ,but it being an acceptable practice doesn't paint a good picture for me
+star heaven that's the brotherhood their more important then peasant farmers
well the stealing of food was an underhanded job by Procter tegan
+Teryn Vietor exactly no ones seems to notice that
The story of the Brotherhood of Steel is supposed to be a tragic one that deals with the themes of how tradition can be corrupted over time. Their rigid obedience to order and tradition goes against the founding of their organization. The Brotherhood was created after their leader disobeyed orders because he found out that the scientists they were ordered to protect were using humans for biological weapons experiments. They tried the scientists for war crimes and deserted from the US military shortly before the nuclear war began.
After the Brotherhood was founded, they started gathering up technology that was deemed to dangerous, with the goal of preserving and developing it to one day release back into the world when humanity was ready for it again. However, their goals changed over time as they developed into a society of their own and faced threats in the post apocalyptic world. They became more concerned with preserving technology in order to protect their own culture rather than the original goal of keeping it safe for the future of humanity.
Elder Lyons was the true loyalist after all
Finally, someone gets it
Fallout Community in a Nutshell
Hassle Farmers for Brotherhood-No!Thats bad!
Raid Farms with Raiders-Heck yeah let's kill innocents!
ShinyTF2 there’s a difference in being a dick and leaving no survivors
@@helix5441 One provides food and other is being a dick.
An order and simply asking for a favor are two different things. Would a initiate give a elder coffee if the elder asked? Probably.
AAAAH DO YOU NOT KNOW WHAT "AN" IS? JESUS CHRIST!
Reread that sentence in your head.
Rule about orders going only to direct subordinates is there to prevent single person from gaining absolute power over order.
Let's say you are rank 1 and your lackeys are rank 3. There are no rank 2 atm. How are you suppose to give orders to the rank 3 ?
Only Brad You field promote one of the rank 3's to rank 2, and then give them orders to command the rank 3's.
This is basically what modern militaries already do. (albeit slightly less strict) A Company Commander doesn't tell individual privates how to do their job. He gives out broad, strategic orders the platoon commanders who are directly below him. Those platoon commanders are the ones who gives specific orders to the men of their platoon. It's a practical command structure, because you want the higher ups focusing on broad strategy, instead of being bogged down trying to micromanage every single soldier.
I would love to see Fallout 3 and New Vegas translated to Fallout 4's engine.
Hey guess what
@@Oliver-jw3dy I was literally just about to say that
For what I understand, the engine is the same, only with updated graphics, but if that is what you mean, I agree :)
@@Oliver-jw3dy forgive me for I am dumb
@@iantuck123 cool
Well Lyons was giving you orders before you were a member so technically he wasn't breaking the rules. When he makes you a Knight, all the orders come from Paladin Gunny. But hey, fuck tradition.
And you just ignored original Fallout series.
"The West Coast BoS, that we encountered in Fallout: New Vegas..." Uhh, are you forgetting Fallout 1, 2, and, Tactics?
Not canon I believe.
+Crashtacular ....excuse me?
+Crashtacular 1 and 2 are hands down canon according to Bethesda itself Tatics is like half canon
not alot of people played one,two . and tactics isn't cannon.
lponyjr they are methods of the MidWest brotherhood though such as in a terminal in FO3
elder Lyon's term was the best for the wasteland
I. Th. No
Join the Railroad they help synths
The Law Arthur was a close minded dick he had no problem killing one of his best soldiers after finding out they were a synth when they never did anything to betray his trust at all
@@ThatGuyKh1 Arthur stood by the brotherhood's original goals while implementing some of his own. They came there to salvage and destroy technology running rampant. When you find out one of your soldiers was a synth or better yet a spy? They have every reason to fear them.
So many get this wrong... Lyons was no hero
SPOILERS!
1. Elder Owyn Lyons abandoned his original mission instead opting for a suicidal campaign vs the super mutants at the cost of soldiers that didn't believe in it. This is why the BoS Outcasts formed and maybe they would have received help for that issue later from the main faction, but became banished because a crazy old man who disobeys orders is not worth helping.
2. They policed the water after not making it freely available for their own gain just like the West Coast BoS would.
3. (on the Railroad comment by Out Of Hells) The railroad is the single most stupid faction ever created(besides the minutemen which was a last minute add-on for the settlements to make sense and is not even required to complete the main story). It's run by a synth that admits he constantly lies to his subordinates, including you, tricking them into helping and getting them killed for nothing. It's Synths helping Synths by removing all of the memories that made them individual thinking in the first place and they are just malfunctioning abominations that threaten the already decimated survivors of the human race. Just look at the Far Harbor story with DiMA with all his lies and tell me how it's a good thing because that is the end result. Also making any move on them kills the human girl who they tricked into thinking she was a synth, making the choice to do what's truly right the hardest to make. Whenever a synth does an evil act they can press reset and be forgiven huh?
4. (on the Paladin Danse comment by Mookai Cool) Did you forget you see first hand in that game what these synths taking over a persons life looks like? They murder the original. So that means the synth Danse you are saying is was wrong to kill most likely killed the original. When did this happen? How many interactions with Danse was real and not synth version? We may never know which makes him a very interesting character in the story. Still if you don't kill him like he asks in his final request you are stopping the real memory of Danse from fulfilling his mission to destroy all synths and dishonoring it. Also dishonoring the BoS by refusing a very logical order that needed to be carried out regardless of your personal feelings. It was probably much harder for Arthur Maxson to make that call then for you to follow his orders and I think the speech he gives Danse is 100% accurate + the best dialog in the game.
Or maybe the chain of command is in place to not allow for frivolous coomands like 'go get me coffee'
but the elder can still do that to any Paladins lol
I prefer the west coast mostly for actually being a well-written faction with internal conflicts and them not being "the good guys".
But being the good guys will make people want to join you and give over tech to you so much easier :P
Yeah but it was a bit lazy just making them all nice guys who agree on everything
+redholm Being the good guys only works when you have Plot Armour.
It disappears when the games over sadly for them. The Lyons family would tell you this if they were around.
Ethan Stansmore But the East Coast chapter is still large and doing well because of it. It's hard to be left alone and have people cooperate with you if you try to kill everyone for their lasers. Also their plot armor is called power armor :P
They didn't agree on everything though, that's why a group left to form the outcasts in fallout 3. And there's not really a single faction of good guys in fallout 4, well other than the minuite min
Elder Lyons is a proud member of the cult of personality
CM PUNK CM PUNK CM PUNK
Too bad Maxim went for the face-heel turn and made the BoS douchebags again... XD
+Krescentwolf Maxon
Maxim is probably even worse than anybody on the West Coast. At least Elder McNamara could be reasoned with. You can ally the BoS in NV to the NCR... the fucking NCR who they are in a war with. It would be the third time in a FO game where the Brotherhood allied with SS/NCR. You even had a prominant Paladin (Jacob) who had a burning hatred for Mutants end up becoming best friends with a Mutant (Marcus).
Maxim, on the other hand, is a stone wall who will not bend an inch. He comes off as more of a single-minded fascist than an isolationist. Of course, this has more to do with Bethesda's shitty writing, and the fact that they were too cheap and lazy to hire the VAs and put the work into Skill/Perk/Stat based dialogue choices and alternate quest routes.
Maxson is reasoned with, Danse doesn't need to die. He lets it slide if you got the Charisma chops, so in that you are completely wrong. As a leader he has a burden most people don't see, he needs to seem 100% certain of everything he says even if he isn't certain. You can't muddy the waters with doubt, your people need to believe they are doing the right thing even if it's not always that way.
All the leaders in the game are unyielding like that. But Maxson is literally the only leader in FO4 who is willing to listen to you and change his mind, as shown earlier.
No part of him is isolationist, they actively recruit people and get involved in everything. As far as fascists go he's rather mild, I don't see him sending the BoS into the Slog to kill all the ghouls. He does send them to fight all the agents of chaos in the Commonwealth however.
edit:
Fixed spelling.
For the chains that bind/fetching a coffee thing. Perhaps it wouldn't be considered and order, but a request that you fulfil out of respect. Or they have an order form their immediate superior to assist whoever it is with their work, and individual tasks within that aren't considered separate orders.
Firstly, Elder Lyons' detachment was sent towards to East to find the BoS Midwest chapter which had left previously on their mission east but went missing during the trip and ended up in the Chicago Region. The Midwest chapter is known for more or less recruiting anyone and anything they felt like they could be trusted, except robots. Primarily because any robots they encountered were hostile and trying to kill them all. Atleast the earlier one was taken care of with blimps / airships as well.
Secondly, the BoS is a quasi-religious / knightly organization. The whole chain that binds is simple. It could be likened to actual knights, squires and aristocrats . If you need something done in the medieval times, you order your own subordinates to do it, you don't just walk up to maybe another earl's knight and ask him to fetch your horse or similarly find someone else's squire to do it. Maybe their commander had sent them on an important mission back to the HQ, and you then would simply commandeer them for any simple minor task, eventually leading to the death of their entire squad.
still think that this narrators accent is unfitting...
Not enough 'Murica?
agreed, I skip all hidden history for noises that come out of him instead of language
+Ethan Stansmore guess so
pent agin. its pent a gone!!
+Christian Martinez you see this is what happens when I try and emulate a more American friendly narration, I personally say pen-ta-gon but I've heard some American friends call it the way I said it in the video. Sorry for the error good sir.
Obsidian is actually more lore friendly than fallout 3, since a lot of the staff there were from interplay...
Ok boomer
@@someguy6239 you're the reason this meme is dead
I mean when bethesda made the east coast brother hood it wasn’t against lore. It’s just that in order for the brotherhood to prosper and survive it had to rework their rules away from their restrictive and simplistic views.
Honestly I’d say that Fallout 3’s version of the BoS is just as valid as New Vegas. They both represent different extremes of what would happen to the group, where in NV they’re basically dying off in a bunker and in 3 they’re out trying to protect the wasteland and help people, but like half of their members leave because they think that idea is stupid.
Love your videos!
the reason for the top down structure is so the elder and the higher ranking brothers & sisters don't go beyond their station. to keep things structured and orderly. it's up to the lower ranks to do the micro managing
Let me guess, someone stole your sweet role?
roll*
i'm pretty sure smiley got it right :V
Yes actually ill mark where he lives on your pipboy go kick his ass.
+HexManiacMaylein Shiet, I didn't know that a goddamn auto correct could have got me killed Welp, I better hide, seeya in 300 years.
Smiley oh no no no if you dont do my sweet roll quest youll miss out on something amazing. (a stick some of these quest rewards make no sense)
The East Coast BOS's genocidal tendencies are a bit of an issue. There is an argument on both sides for Synths (though I'd say it's actually dangerous to deny their sentience, especially given how much of their components are biological), and the breed of Super-Mutants on the East Coast has produced about 3 potentially peaceable individuals, but the line where it crosses into the absurd is ghouls getting treated like animals. Ferals are feral, but if the entity that was born human, is mostly physically still human, and can still speak and reason with you like any other human, there is no call to treat them as less than human.
That's mostly an opinion thing, they only gun down ferals, and while yes a lot of members are mean to ghouls that doesn't mean all of them are
+Raximous Prime Willow, one of the ghouls guarding Underworld in DC tells the Lone Wanderer how Brotherhood patrols take pot shots at them, and are only sometimes kind enough to miss.
***** I wasn't directly quoting her.
Problem of ghouls is the degeneration, all ghouls saw Feral is only a matter of time
Victor Mendonça da Silva It really isn't. It's never been confirmed within the lore that going feral is an inevitability for ghouls.
In Fallout 3, elder lyons can give you orders because you only become an official member of the brotherhood at the start of the quest Take It Back.
The chain of command is not that ridiculous. Imagine if a general attempted to give an order to a private on the front line of a war without informing his CO. What would happen is that the soldier would comply and go off to do whatever the general told him too, but when it came time for his co to carry out his orders, he'd be a man down because one of his men is off doing something he didn't know he was supposed to be doing, so then, the soldiers CO would be unable to carry out his orders. Because he wouldn't be able to carry out his orders, his CO would become confused, because the break in the cabin of command caused one link of his battle plan to go astray, and this would continue up the line until it eventually caused a problem with the general's own plans. In short, this kind of thing exists for a reason.
As referring to the whole Brotherhood the Chain That Binds makes sense, but to individual chapters it should be slightly modified. Chapters normally don't make up anymore than 80-140 people or so, and if a single man is missing that's important, but giving an order to anyone under you is also important. However, it's just as equally important to inform, not dictate, whoever is immediately in charge of the person you just had run off to do something. Say an Elder wants a coffee, he can ask a squire to run and grab it but must inform whoever is in charge of the squire to that he's doing a task for him. In Fallout 3 and 4 it's a bit of a special case since in three you're not an actual member, just an honorary member, but in 4 you're made into a full fledged soldier in the East Coast's chapter, and if you follow the end of NV's BoS story line it's the same. Either way, your character appears to be a special case in every game as you're not a "real" member, but more of a personal assistant or "right hand man" to the Elder over a Knight or a Paladin. The chain of command is important and must be kept in check, but the Chain That Binds seems to be in place to prevent secrecy and deceit as evident in NV's BoS story.
Imagine there is a surprise attack. There is a group of privates and someone who is two ranks above them. Their direct commander is no where to be found. That group has no leader.
+Sean Ladely in that case, the privates would be under the direct command of the lance corporal. Just because they aren't one rank lower doesn't mean they can't be directly under someone's command. For instance, the vault dweller in this case could be construed as being directly under the command of elder Lyons, just as a private guarding a general could be directly under his command, meaning the chain wasn't broken.
+kilroyactual117 that was a good read. bravo
"Vassal of my vassal is not my vassal" - feudalism. It has been taken from our own history.
Doesn't make it practical in an army though
0:14 that spastic bark scorpion :D
It was a corpse that I couldn't get rid of and when I started recorded it started going mad haha.
haha good spotting
Can we call it the Bork Scorpion?
+edwardg Lmao Bork scorp
The Almighty pizza pug Praise the Bork Scorp!
also liberty prime, the east coast has fucking liberty prime
I just realised how retarded liberty primes name is when i read this
then the institute uses it aganist them
It's too late, but where's your profile picture from?
Very impressive! I liked and subscribed. I'm a noob to Fallout and I'm eager to learn all I can.
"I don't like the East coast Brotherhood because they are too good." Have you played Fallout 4 mate?
i agree elder maxon is a bitch
Bjorn Bjornson used big boy to kill him
How?
Once you complete show no mercy the Eastern Chapter kills random people and side quest where you can extort farms for supplies
yeah but the the dc brotherhood in fallout 3 was actually too good
you seem to forget the Midwest brotherhood of steel. the most interesting chapter.
Lyons BOS is still better than the F4 BOS
Indeed...damned I hate Maxson so much (this punk doesn't deserve to be elder of anything, hell it's implied that they destroyed Rivet City (probably by force!) because they needed a reactor to power the Prydwen and those aren't easy to come by in the wasteland (note: Unless you can make your own...didn't they kind of do that for Liberty Prime - so why not do so again? Probably because robbing other people at gunpoint is easier!) the BOS was finally evolving and he forced it to regress (sure he still recruits outsiders, but that's about the only good thing he kept from Lyon's BOS and the good PR they made for the BOS as a whole!)
ps: Not to mention that they turned NAZI ("human purity" - so everything non-human is to be exterminated with extreme prejudice, but not even all humans are created equal: The BOS shows a disdain for ordinary people who they have no problem threatening for food like schoolyard bullies who want your lunch money!...just that these bullies have Powered Infantry Armor, Energy-Weapons, Vertibirds, an Airship and a giant robot (Liberty Prime!))
I agree.. They werent such Nazi's
They aren't Nazis though. They don't see the Synths as being impure as humans but as a technological threat gone too far. It has nothing to do with pure strain human or any such nonsense you claim. In fact their policy on Mutants is no different really than the Minutemen, the only difference is the lack of ghouls in their ranks which can largely be chocked up to general wasteland prejudice rather than absolute hate. As they don't ask you to hunt down sane ghouls or destroy the one Ghoul town in the game. Their policy on mutants hasn't changed since FO1, 2, 3, or NV. If you honestly think they went Nazi then you have no idea what the Nazis were clearly.
You forget even Lyons brotherhood took potshots at ghouls entering Underworld. The failure of democracy is seen in Fallout. Even the Minutemen exude this idea. The General is given all the power, the minutemen through time become a protective military state, just like the Eastern Brotherhood. Would you rather help the Stratocracy which is already in progress or the one just gaining power?
OmegaValwin real shit. I fuckin hate the one from 4
It's interesting, because the brotherhood of steel is following the same setup chain of command as ships do. If I were the lowliest member onboard my vessel, the captain would never ask me directly for coffee. He would ask my boss, the department head in charge of stewardship to do so, who would then tell me. It's a common practice to maintain order. It may seem a little clunky and counterproductive, but it does its job, and it does it well.
you gotta love that glitching bark scorpion
There is a difference between asking for a coffee and ordering for one.
awesome bro
The first time I ever played fallout 3 was my first fallout experience ever. I was hooked, but it was weird. I was so immersed into the game and the music and the notion that this world could be a reality and I because depressed but in a way where I had to keep playing. It’s a powerful game that really engulfed my whole person when I played.
Has anyone else ever had a similar experience like mine?
Not to mention the East Coast has Liberty Fucking Prime. And he can be rebuilt for the main quest too, if you sided BoS. But then again, West Coast had Elder Elijah who was a tech genius, uncovering the possibilities of an orbital death cannon powered by the sun, turning people into mindless zombies to do your own command upon, oh yeah, and a fucking poison fog that can be controlled to move fucking anywhere. Yeah, West Coast was metal as fuck.
Midwest BoS ftw
Midwest was not canon said Bethesda
+SHANE DONAHUE don't care
+SHANE DONAHUE yeah cause bethesda cares so much about the lore. fallout 4 proved their disregard for Canon.
+SHANE DONAHUE they are, some parts of Tactics are canon, one of them being the Mid-West chapter
+Bradknightable it's sad that change lore so much, the one thing that got me was the x01 power armor that was made by the enclave is found in pre war buildings
Nice work mate
Oozybuzzard Gaming thanks!
I’m glad you enjoyed.
The enclave actually also recruited outsiders after the loss of the oil rig making not so inbred as you might think
FO3 Brotherhood was way better. Eldar Lyons knew how to both run a military force and politic to the locals. Pretty sure he would have not seen the Railroad or the escape Synths as technological heresy. This new East Brotherhood seems to have picked up some nasty habits from the West. Why can't they be like the Midwest Brotherhood?
Because of Arthur-fucking-Maxson.
Arthur Maxson is more kind though unlike our buddy lyons who had a hate boner for anything non human. Arthur lets ghouls who can speak live and kills only ferals while lyons saw anything that wasnt human as it needed to be killed.
@@Alpha-106 You're mistaken. Please shut up and check your facts before you open your mouth again.
@@jacobrobinson787 He is somehow right. In Fallout 3 the BoS shoots ghouls on sight. One of the ghouls lookout even talk about it. They are still pushy, even under Lyon. The whole project purity after Broken Steel is under military control, they do not relinquish it freely to everyone. I'm not saying Lyons is anti-ghouls, but his BoS is. After a BoS victory in Fallout 4, the BoS establish trading with Goodneighbor and they absolutely don't kill ghouls on sight.
@@francisarchambault9910 I know that, but he has completely mistaken the two. Arthur isn't kind, not in the least. He's a stubborn and arrogant hard-ass who despises anything non-human, and wants them eradicated.
Whereas Elder Lyons shows nothing of the isolationist views Maxson does, and does his best for all the people of the Capital Wasteland - including the Ghouls. And again, I think you're confusing the BoS soldiers with the Outcasts. Lyons Brotherhood doesn't shoot at Ghouls.
My point is he is mistaken in the facts about the two, about who any of them even are.
i think you got the chains that bind a bit out of wack. im sure they simply apply to military orders. not getting someone a damn sweet roll and coffee.
Nope. Any order, at all. According to the codex, which is the only thing that matters to the westerners.
The chain that bind is a forgotten rule in brotherhood society. So it really makes sense.
My interpretation of "The chain that binds" is that you can give mundane orders "bring me coffee", but are not supposed to give mission orders (fetch a piece of technology, defend a location, go scouting) without at least telling that person's direct superior. It just creates chaos when grunts are sent somewhere to do something and their superior isn't told anything and wonders where his men are, what they're doing and why they're disobeying his previous orders. Untangling such messes during a battle would be so annoying, that the rule to follow the chain of command was introduced.
@ShoddyCast - Call me crazy, but this is my little input on the "Chains that Bind" coffee example towards the end of the video. Perhaps in some cases, the upper members are allowed to ask a favour not as an order, but rather as a friend and a fellow brother. Although not technically required to bring the coffee, a lower member likely would do it out of sheer respect for their elder- while still upholding the Chains that Bind. An order could perhaps be defined as something more complicated or meaningful, like leading an attack against a band of raiders, promising to defend your brethren, or even directions in combat. This would make more logical sense, as it's perhaps a little over the top to apply this ideology to everyday tasks or requests.
AND MID-WEST???CHICAGO??FALLOUT TACTICS??
Not technically canon
There's also the BOS spinoff game from 2004. Though that game was ass.
@@kurros1270 we don't about that thing here
@@samuellubell4557 it's at least half canon. It's mentiined in 3 and 4.
And it’s possible there’s more chapters like a northern chapter.
the chains that bind is essentially straight out of the US military
orders are passed directly from high to low and it serves well in that a general knows little about a specific squad. It allows things to be flexible
Someone get this man a damn coffee, and a sweet roll for this video!
EAST COASTTTTTTT
Oh shit wadup a dead meme
+Tobesterm98 dead meme?
yes
forced meme*
MIDWESTTTTTTT
AD FUCKING VICTORIAM
*NCR and proud,bitch
Love the picture of soviets command for chain that binds. Pretty acurate to it
the chain that binds rule is actually pretty useful to maintaining order and respect in an organization. and i think the word "orders" in "superiors may only give orders to his direct subordinate" means like the important kind of orders not "get me some coffee" kind of orders.
He could still ASK for a cup of coffee.
Pretty sure he'd get it, too.
Wow. Someone narrating this that's _not Austin._
Counterpoint: Someone doesn't have to be the immediate rank under you to be your direct subordinate. Eg, Staff NCOs. Its about making sure people get their orders from their team leaders.
the chains that bind are actually meant for war time and operations its not meant "you go grab me a cup of coffee." and the grunt says piss off now u have to step down its their to stop confusion during combat
I totally want the brotherhood east and west getting into a fight at some point.
West brother hood for the win!
Filthy degenerate
TUNNEL SNAKES RULE
For preston and the minutemen!!!!!!
Nah jk
+The Mango Baron I never like the NCR to begin with lol. I'm all about Caesar's legion.
I mean in any tactical situation, the ability to statically adapt is a must have.
It can be argued in 3 that for a good portion you aren’t explicitly a member of the Brotherhood of Steel, therefore when Lyons gives you orders, it comes from the leader of a group, rather than your own superior and completely circumvents the Chains That Bind anyway.
The east Coast brotherhood is practically the NCR of the east
"have not to been born in the brotherhood..."
Playing Fallout I and II on launch, long before most of the internet even existing, finding the BOS for the first time felt like I stumbled upon something super elusive and secret.
Same here. I hope midwestern BOS becomes a reality
The Brotherhood are like a mix between Space Marines and Tech Priests, with a little pinch of Heresy
Let's be pretty clear - Bethesda wanted a kewl power armor faction for heroes, and so mangled the BoS's lore entirely. That's what the difference between the East and West Coast BoS are - Bethesda's reimaginings vs Black Isle's lore as it was. If you really think about it, nothing makes sense about F3, since getting to another state over would be a huge hassle in Fallout verse, so getting across the entire damned country, especially in the earlier years, sounds really stupid.
Bro how big do you think America is? It'd take at maximum a year to walk across from coast to coast.
You're dumb
Uh huh. 'Just walk' across America. Yup. Not like there's deathclaws, raiders, cults, vast slaver empires, turmoil, crazy Vault experiments vomiting themselves out to the Wasteland, rouges and deserters everywhere, lack of supplies, crazy weather phenomena, radiological hazards, and other endless amounts of nasty stuff, right?
The sheer difficulty of continental traversal allows me to suspend my disbelief in regards to the differences between Brotherhood chapters. I doubt the east coast Brotherhood is in much contact with their west coast brethren.
I doubt all of America is full of hostile tribes and dangerous creatures, what we see in these games is an oasis of life in certain areas where resources have not been totally fucked. Deathclaws and raiders hangout around these places because that's where life is abundant enough to take advantage of. Go out on the great plains and you will probably be really hard pressed to even find insects buzzing around, it would truly be a wasteland with the rare oasis of life here and there.
technically though Maxon in 4 is a High Elder, since he's a direct descendant of the Brotherhoods founder so it stands to reason that he's got a bit of leeway
Possibly, but some of the terminal entries strongly hint that he's just a puppet ruler for the Lost Hills faction
+Halloweenman33 precisely. He's a capable and charismatic leader no doubt. But the elder had always responded to the council of elders so that no one man wields all the power.
Does lost hills even still exist? Damn, i thought the NCR killed their asses. also Cloven, Lyon's didn't seem to have a council, and neither did that elder in Vegas, so they may have changed from a council to a dictator due to repeatedly losing them and/or losing contact with them. The high elder seems to hold all the power nowadays.
+Devouring_One the Vegas elder didn't have a council because he was part of the Mojave chapter, but he most likely still took orders from the council of elders. Lyons broke away from allot of traditional brotherhood aspects though. They didn't have the same ranks either and they were "excommunicated" I guess by the west coast elders. They only got support from the west after Maxson reorganized everybody (like bringing the outcasts back in) and returned them back to their previous goal
ClovenSinger19 returning to their previous goal doesn't mean Arthur let go of his dictator-like status.
honestly though, I'm pretty sure that the one rank down thing is more to prevent things like "hey you. when your team finds that nuclear reactor, you stop them by any means necessary" than "hey, get me a coffee."
I just like the bos base in the east. That building for a fortress was badass.
Did he say OBSIDIAN can't be consistent with lore? The problem here is mostly that Bethesda doesn't give a F* about canon if it as much as inconveniences them. They have pre-war Jet, stores in the middle of settlements full of pre-war goods (the others couldn't take them - only the protagonist, obviously) Oh, and commonwealth has beachside wooden houses still standing. Commonwealth is not Nevada or Mojave. It's wet and it gets cold (There was nuclear winter, too). Wet+Wood = Rotten. Wet+cold + stone = rubble. But, no, F*CK logic, we need new locations. It's the same reason basically nothing changes much in Tamriel. And stuff that happened thousands of years ago is talked about like last Thursday.
Your Chains that Binds arguments that involve Maxson are greatly misunderstood.
Sole survivor is like a special forcrs member, someone who can do stuff most cant, since he's extremely powerful, and resourceful.
The chains that bind doesn't make sense if you think of it from a purely rank based system. But it doesn't mention rank, it mentions immediate supervisors. That means that while that initiate working for paladin blah isn't supposed to take orders from the elder directly, that doesn't mean the elder doesn't have initiates directly working for them. This is actually pretty common in the US military where soldiers being given orders from higher ups is considered disrespectful to the first line supervisors.
My head canon for the east coast's neglect of the chains that bind is that, the situation in the Pitt was so chaotic that following the chains that bind caused unnecessary loss of life and possibly led to Asher being abandoned.