I've had the same Boyer ignition on both my Commandos for about twenty years (they have always worked well) but this video is the first demonstration that has made me really understand how it works - Thank you!
It is a simple system but people usually overthink it. I used to tell customers to read the instructions twice and then read them again if you're having problems.
Mate, thanks for this. I prefer the old mechanical system for originality, but I'm putting a MkIII into a friend's 66 Daytona (he doesn't do spanners, and lives five hours away). Your video has been hugely helpful. 👍
Excellent ! Clear lighting. Clear commentary. Steady camera. There's any number of videos that don't have that. One thing you did miss out - annoying music.
Great video Question for you, I know Pazon makes similar ignition is the formula somewhat the same.i guess my question is for the Pazon would there be 12 v current going to the coil without the rotation or does it work the same way as you demonstrated.
A couple of ways, use the Triumph timing plug tool that threads into the cases and engages the crank flywheel detents or use a degree wheel. Most Triumph manuals describe the procedure. Also the Boyer website has instructions for their kits.
Great video thanks for the lesson. I would like to ask. I have a Boyer ignition on a Triumph I picked up. Can I add a kill switch that shorts out the coil to the ground without harming the Boyer box? Thank you.
My initial thought would be to put a switch in series with the power, less chance of harming the box itself. That's how my Norton works. It probably wouldn't hurt in the long run but why take the chance.
Great video explaining how EI's work. That spark test is a good tip... I'm going to remember that when I'm installing my electronic ignition this weekend. I get confused by the wasted spark system. They both spark at the same time? Isn't the opposite cycler igniting gas when it's not supposed to...and why doesn't that effect the running of the bike?
@@saywhatsaywhat1 this is probably a dumb question, but is there a "right-side up" when it comes to mounting the stator plate or could you could have flipped it 180 degrees and mount it "upside down" from where it is now? It doesn't seem like the Boyer has any markings to show which side is up or down, so I'm assuming it doesn't matter which way you mount it (as long as the engine timing is set correctly and the rotor underneath the stator is in the correct position.) Is that correct?
Another question for you. I have a 71 triumph tiger 650. It has a good boyer device on it, I replaced the alternator and rotor and also put a battery eliminator rectifier. I separated the lights and hooked them in to a switch so once I kicked over the bike and running, I switch on the the lights and the bike shuts down. I'm now told I need to replace the electronic points and go back to stock points. Does this sound right to you ww1.them.in
Yeah, the Boyer won't work without a battery, they need a stable voltage and at least 5A. They make a "power box" system if you want to eliminate the battery.
Norton usually have a resister in line. (mounted behind the headstock) to drop the voltage to the coils to 6 volt. I can't see this resistor in your setup. Dose the control box drop the voltage to the coils to 6 volts as 12 volts could cause them to loose all their smoke. Also be aware if the motor stops with the ignition still on and the magnet happens to line up with one of the sensors voltage could still excite the coils causing them to heat up which is why forgetting to turn off the ignition after a run could burn out your coils. Great video much appreciated. I also have fitted the Boyer on my 850 Norton and have had no problems in 30 years. The bike recently suffered a pad delamination on one of the lifters which means stripping the engine. Have you had any experience with this occuring?
I am running the test rig on 12v coils and your bike may have had 12v or 6v coils from the factory. The boyer units will control either really, I think they recommend 3.5 ohms total IIRC, they give the specs in the instructions. The Mark IV Boyer has the feature that shuts the unit down if it senses no crank / cam movement with the key on to prevent coil burnout. I have heard of problems with lifter facing but never run across it on bikes I have had apart. Boyer units are pretty bulletproof in my experience, thanks for the comments.
Hi Mr Norton guy , can you tell me if the commando "Boyer ignition advance is set up @ 31degrees at 5000 rpm , (i read that somewhere) , what initial advance will or should the control box give at idle or 1000-1200 rpm . Cheers.
Im not gonna lie, I’ve had a boyer since 1996 that I installed (never really had any problems with it) but just recently I had a weird situation causing no spark. I learned more from your video and it absolutely helped me understand how it worked and how to troubleshoot it. I was quickly able to determine it wasn’t the issue. And found the problem pretty quickly afterwards. I owe you a lunch 🥪 lol 😂
I've got a chance to buy a Boyer MKIV EI locally, but it is the Triumph/BSA kit (#52). Do you know if this can work on the Norton 850 Commando (web site lists the #53 kit for Nortons)? Thanks.
Thx, I just heard back from Boyer tech support. They say MKIV kits use same electronics for Triumph and Norton kits, and to just use the Norton install doc pdf instead of included Triumph / BSA doc. Do you agree or disagree?
AFAIK it's a different kit with different advance curves. I have a feeling if they could consolidate the kits, they would do it to cut down on inventory.
So is this hooked to a battery? I had a breakdown on the weekend with a power leak somewhere and my battery dropped under 11.5v. Someone tells me you can run without the battery. Is this true? Great video!
Standard Boyer needs a fully charged battery to work properly. The newer MKIV models do work at lower voltages than previously to accommodate electric starters.
Great question. I saw somewhere that someone sells a capacitor to assist with startup if the battery voltage drops. That might be worth getting. At the time I thought that it would only be useful if I had a starter, but now that you bring your scenario up, I see the need. Thanks! (But sorry you got stranded...)
Hi, I have a mk 3 on a TR7, I get power to the box on the white wire, but nothing at the coil, on the black wire and no sparks at the pickup wires, the bike has not been used in 23 years! Any ideas? Or is it time for a new box? Nice clear video by the way.
If you've got no power to the coils I would say yes but all I can say is first check your connections to make doubly sure the terminals are actually connected properly. Unusual to see a box just go dead but stranger things have happened.
im wanting to put one of these kits on my 650 since im doing a complete re wire. the standard regulator and rectifiers are shot, can you run this kit with a universal reg/rec from eBay?
@@saywhatsaywhat1 thanks for your reply. I recently bought 1978 tiger 750 (Bonny with 1 carb really), and it has a Boyer Micro Mk 3. I'm just trying to work out if my 12v positive earth system has been fitted with an ignition which is not designed for it. Thanks for your response.
Not sure, but the system is designed to shut off after about 15 seconds if you don't kick it over repeatedly to keep the coils from overheating if you inadvertently leave the key on.
@stevekwall925 In my experience the box itself usually works or it doesn't and I have seen very few failures. A flameout on the road would send me looking for a loose wire or bad connection.
... Thank you for this clip! Try to fit the Boyer Bransden to a BSA Thunderbolt ... what a hassle! Not even their drawings are correct :-( The support you get is, that Google is a much more friendly option ... what a pity for a British Made product :-(
awsome watched vid 74 triumph t150 died after warming up after like 2 min box worked till it died tested after it died box dead till it cooled back off
The pazon is better than Boyer it will start with 8 volts if you haven't got a good 10 volts the Boyer won't start just back fires l have chucked my Boyer out I had to keep it on charge all the time even in the summer it uses the same wires two 6 volts coils I can go to the garage I know my Bonneville will start 😃
6 years on and this vid keeps on giving. Sincere thanks for the effort. upvoted and subscribed. - '67 Spitfire , Michigan.
I've had the same Boyer ignition on both my Commandos for about twenty years (they have always worked well) but this video is the first demonstration that has made me really understand how it works - Thank you!
Thanks for taking the time to do the tutorial. It really helped me understand how the system works, & how to test it
Awesome video
Understand it well now. Thank you!
Excelent! Screen saved your excelent display you gave a good understanding with your narative Thankyou!
Brilliant video, about to install this kit on my KZ650 Chopper to replace the dual points set up, handy seeing how easily it functions.
It is a simple system but people usually overthink it. I used to tell customers to read the instructions twice and then read them again if you're having problems.
This was really helpful, thanks for doing this
My first attempt at one of these instructional videos, from the calls I get, I just thought it might help.
Mate, thanks for this. I prefer the old mechanical system for originality, but I'm putting a MkIII into a friend's 66 Daytona (he doesn't do spanners, and lives five hours away). Your video has been hugely helpful. 👍
Excellent !
Clear lighting. Clear commentary. Steady camera.
There's any number of videos that don't have that.
One thing you did miss out - annoying music.
Thanks for the feedback
Great video Question for you, I know Pazon makes similar ignition is the formula somewhat the same.i guess my question is for the Pazon would there be 12 v current going to the coil without the rotation or does it work the same way as you demonstrated.
Same as Boyer AFAIK or it would melt down the coils.
What would happen if the 2 wires that connect to the transducer were reversed
Cool. Now how do you set timing on a older Triumph with a Boyer conversion from points and no timing marks?
A couple of ways, use the Triumph timing plug tool that threads into the cases and engages the crank flywheel detents or use a degree wheel. Most Triumph manuals describe the procedure. Also the Boyer website has instructions for their kits.
Great video thanks for the lesson. I would like to ask. I have a Boyer ignition on a Triumph I picked up. Can I add a kill switch that shorts out the coil to the ground without harming the Boyer box? Thank you.
My initial thought would be to put a switch in series with the power, less chance of harming the box itself. That's how my Norton works. It probably wouldn't hurt in the long run but why take the chance.
Great video explaining how EI's work. That spark test is a good tip... I'm going to remember that when I'm installing my electronic ignition this weekend. I get confused by the wasted spark system. They both spark at the same time? Isn't the opposite cycler igniting gas when it's not supposed to...and why doesn't that effect the running of the bike?
No the "wasted spark" doesn't affect the running
@@saywhatsaywhat1 this is probably a dumb question, but is there a "right-side up" when it comes to mounting the stator plate or could you could have flipped it 180 degrees and mount it "upside down" from where it is now? It doesn't seem like the Boyer has any markings to show which side is up or down, so I'm assuming it doesn't matter which way you mount it (as long as the engine timing is set correctly and the rotor underneath the stator is in the correct position.) Is that correct?
@@daveco1270 The instruction sheet shows how to install for your application
very cool.. thank you , this really helped me
Glad someone got some use out of this. I get a lot of questions bout these Boyer kits, generally they are pretty simple and do the job.
Another question for you. I have a 71 triumph tiger 650. It has a good boyer device on it, I replaced the alternator and rotor and also put a battery eliminator rectifier. I separated the lights and hooked them in to a switch so once I kicked over the bike and running, I switch on the the lights and the bike shuts down. I'm now told I need to replace the electronic points and go back to stock points. Does this sound right to you
ww1.them.in
Yeah, the Boyer won't work without a battery, they need a stable voltage and at least 5A. They make a "power box" system if you want to eliminate the battery.
Really??? Crap..
Do I just type in power box for a triumph tiger 650 to find it?
Norton usually have a resister in line. (mounted behind the headstock) to drop the voltage to the coils to 6 volt.
I can't see this resistor in your setup.
Dose the control box drop the voltage to the coils to 6 volts as 12 volts could cause them to loose all their smoke.
Also be aware if the motor stops with the ignition still on and the magnet happens to line up with one of the sensors voltage could still excite the coils causing them to heat up which is why forgetting to turn off the ignition after a run could burn out your coils.
Great video much appreciated. I also have fitted the Boyer on my 850 Norton and have had no problems in 30 years.
The bike recently suffered a pad delamination on one of the lifters which means stripping the engine.
Have you had any experience with this occuring?
I am running the test rig on 12v coils and your bike may have had 12v or 6v coils from the factory. The boyer units will control either really, I think they recommend 3.5 ohms total IIRC, they give the specs in the instructions. The Mark IV Boyer has the feature that shuts the unit down if it senses no crank / cam movement with the key on to prevent coil burnout.
I have heard of problems with lifter facing but never run across it on bikes I have had apart.
Boyer units are pretty bulletproof in my experience, thanks for the comments.
Hi Mr Norton guy , can you tell me if the commando "Boyer ignition advance is set up @ 31degrees at 5000 rpm , (i read that somewhere) , what initial advance will or should the control box give at idle or 1000-1200 rpm . Cheers.
Set full advance with a strobe at 28 degrees
Excellent video
Thanks for the visit
Im not gonna lie, I’ve had a boyer since 1996 that I installed (never really had any problems with it) but just recently I had a weird situation causing no spark. I learned more from your video and it absolutely helped me understand how it worked and how to troubleshoot it. I was quickly able to determine it wasn’t the issue. And found the problem pretty quickly afterwards. I owe you a lunch 🥪 lol 😂
I've got a chance to buy a Boyer MKIV EI locally, but it is the Triumph/BSA kit (#52). Do you know if this can work on the Norton 850 Commando (web site lists the #53 kit for Nortons)?
Thanks.
The Norton kit is different from the TriBSA version.
Thx, I just heard back from Boyer tech support. They say MKIV kits use same electronics for Triumph and Norton kits, and to just use the Norton install doc pdf instead of included Triumph / BSA doc.
Do you agree or disagree?
AFAIK it's a different kit with different advance curves. I have a feeling if they could consolidate the kits, they would do it to cut down on inventory.
OK, I'll ask them to confirm what they claim. Cheers.
@@TornadoCAN99 ... I think you are better off with a Bacon System, at least their technical support is way better!
Very helpful
Glad to hear that
Do you live in New England anywhere. I'd love to have you check out my Boyer Mkiii problem.
Yes, I'm in SE Mass, I haven't been taking in any outside work but I might have a look.
So is this hooked to a battery? I had a breakdown on the weekend with a power leak somewhere and my battery dropped under 11.5v. Someone tells me you can run without the battery. Is this true? Great video!
Standard Boyer needs a fully charged battery to work properly. The newer MKIV models do work at lower voltages than previously to accommodate electric starters.
Great question. I saw somewhere that someone sells a capacitor to assist with startup if the battery voltage drops. That might be worth getting. At the time I thought that it would only be useful if I had a starter, but now that you bring your scenario up, I see the need. Thanks! (But sorry you got stranded...)
Hi, I have a mk 3 on a TR7, I get power to the box on the white wire, but nothing at the coil, on the black wire and no sparks at the pickup wires, the bike has not been used in 23 years! Any ideas? Or is it time for a new box? Nice clear video by the way.
If you've got no power to the coils I would say yes but all I can say is first check your connections to make doubly sure the terminals are actually connected properly. Unusual to see a box just go dead but stranger things have happened.
Thanks, I'll keep checking...
im wanting to put one of these kits on my 650 since im doing a complete re wire. the standard regulator and rectifiers are shot, can you run this kit with a universal reg/rec from eBay?
Solid State reg/rectifier is OK but you still have to run a top notch battery.
@@saywhatsaywhat1 ah that should be ok then I have a couple of really good spare ones.
do the coils not work with them wired in parallel? If one coil dies, there will be no ignition at all.
They have to be in series, and yes an issue with one affects both.
@@saywhatsaywhat1 thanks for your reply. I recently bought 1978 tiger 750 (Bonny with 1 carb really), and it has a Boyer Micro Mk 3. I'm just trying to work out if my 12v positive earth system has been fitted with an ignition which is not designed for it. Thanks for your response.
what would be the cause of when you kick it the first time it sparks then nothing after that ?
Not sure, but the system is designed to shut off after about 15 seconds if you don't kick it over repeatedly to keep the coils from overheating if you inadvertently leave the key on.
@@saywhatsaywhat1 getting no spark on my 1968 a65 , Do them units go out very often?
other day I was riding it just shut down pop the clutch fired back up I think I am going to replace the box
@stevekwall925 In my experience the box itself usually works or it doesn't and I have seen very few failures. A flameout on the road would send me looking for a loose wire or bad connection.
This system doesnt require a battery. Or does it. I dont see a battery. Im learning and working on a 69 norton 750 with nowhere to put a battery.
Yes, a battery is required, mine is off screen.
... Thank you for this clip! Try to fit the Boyer Bransden to a BSA Thunderbolt ... what a hassle! Not even their drawings are correct :-( The support you get is, that Google is a much more friendly option ... what a pity for a British Made product :-(
awsome watched vid 74 triumph t150 died after warming up after like 2 min box worked till it died tested after it died box dead till it cooled back off
The pazon is better than Boyer it will start with 8 volts if you haven't got a good 10 volts the Boyer won't start just back fires l have chucked my Boyer out I had to keep it on charge all the time even in the summer it uses the same wires two 6 volts coils I can go to the garage I know my Bonneville will start 😃
Yes, the earlier MKIII Boyers were more fussy about voltage but the later MKIV version addressed the issue.