Willys Rear Main Seal Tips, Engine Rebuilding, Project Updates
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- čas přidán 25. 03. 2020
- In this video I am going to show you what is happening with rear main seals these days for the L and F head Willys 134 Engines. There will be an update on all projects in the shop and what is going on with them. Finally I will show you how to resize connecting rods to the proper dimension.
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Back in 1980, when I rebuilt my M38A1, I remember having an issue with the rear main sealing. This was a still in the crate Will's I lucked out on for $900 and all the rubber seals and head gasket failed. So, I did a total rebuild from the ground up. The rear main gasket failed twice before I put a hundred miles on the Jeep. Age and non use failed all rubber gaskets, suspension parts, and the carb. I did this in the Winter of '79-80 with a lot of help from my Uncle out in the cold of a New York snow season. I was thoroughly disgusted by the rear mains leaking every chance I got it running. I do not remember which part company I used, but it was a rope seal and easily made mistakes with. I couldn't do today what I did back then, but youth and good guidance let me do what I needed to do.
I have had problems with different rear seals. This winter I removed crank and had it turned. This time rope seal was installed, I purchased it from NAPA. This was a Fel-Pro BS 3165. The rubber dowels fit nicely, I have had the very problems with other seals and dowels you are talking about. My motor is back together and have driven it about 200 miles over the past few weeks. No leaks, hopefully the rear seal stays this way. Personally I will never use anything but a rope seal again on this engine. Thanks for all you post, you have helped me in many ways. One more idea. With the other dowels that didn't fit I did use a sealer, and yes removing cap was hard. I made a puller that used the 2 oil pan threaded holes to connect cap, and 2 threaded holes through each side of puller to put pressure on block. This draws cap out evenly, and without damaging anything. Thanks again
How is your rear seal ? Nonleaks with the Fel Pro BS 3165?
I just remove my engine and need some new rope.
Thank you Brian for taking are minds off corona for awhile. Be safe. God Bless
The virus is really messing up things for me with all the companies that are closed, so I will post videos on the projects that I can get finished. Thanks for watching.
Thank you for all the great tips and all the really cool information you give! Not many people are out there who really care about doing a good job anymore. I'm glad you still do!
Thanks for taking the time to watch and comment, I will always do my best to get the job done properly.
Thanks for explaining the rear main seals. We have used a couple and have had sealing problems. Thanks for explaining it all
Glad to help
First, sincerely thank you for these videos! I know it takes a lot and slows you down, not many are willing to share their knowledge.
For the layman, when do you send out, how to tell when salvageable, when do you replace crank? Working along the shaft from the rear seal my measurements are 2.2990, 2.3025, 1.9130, 1.9145, 2.3055, 1.9130, 1.9150, 2.3110 and 2.3150
Sorry, don’t know how to insert a photo.
Happy to hear you guys are safe. I'm having the same problem getting parts for my projects here in Ohio.
Sure does seem to be a global problem, I am hearing of problems all over the USA and beyond. Hang in there and stay safe, better days are coming I hope.
Brian
G'day Brian. Good to see all is ok in your part of the world. Another great video with lots of good information in it. 👍
Always good to hear from you, hope things are ok in your area. Thanks as always for watching. Brian
@@metalshaperJeep All good here Brian. I have been keeping my head down so this virus misses me. 😉
Terrific info. I built a few of these in the late 70's. Kits would come with Fel-Pro's choice of rear main seal. Some of them were sloppy loose neoprene, some fit well, some kits came with rope. Always keeps me up nights sweating a new engine start. Your rope seal video will go a long way toward settling my nerves. BTW, Viton, (Vyton), is used in aerospace, great stuff.
Thanks Brian for the info
Great video 👍
Glad you enjoyed it, more on the way.
So often these days, the customer is the final inspector.
Been waiting on your Videos
More to come!
Nice to see during these rough times, you took time to shoot another video. Yes, our world has caused us to stay in, but found it a good time go through my tool chest & repair tools and contribute to "Qurantine Quickie", folks that share how they are staying sane during all the stress. Hope you guys also are hanging in for the long haul, and let's keep our video's rolling, Bear
Glad to see you are keeping out of the way Brian, one thing is we can always find something to do in this shutdown, the only problem is you end up doing 4 jobs at the same time because materials for one job are not available. The best gasket company sounds like it has an inappropriate name ! I really cannot understand a company not listening to feedback from a customer, especially when you back up with proof, it must mean that there are a lot of people out there not giving any feedback, another company that will soon vanish ! Stay safe! Chris B.
Hope all is well in your part of the world Chris and you are staying safe and healthy. I am keeping up with things as best I can here and keeping to myself to avoid any trouble. The "best" gasket company will hopefully be out of business soon as they clearly don't have any idea how to make the correct gaskets for Willys and many other makes of automobiles. Brian
You the man!!
Thanks for watching.
A great video, thank you Brian. I look forward to seeing the cylinder re-sleeving process. I've also been wondering about dry vs oiled threads for assembly of the more critical components. This doesn't seem to be specified with the torque specs, so may one assume from that that the torque values given in the service manual imply dry threads? I would be interested to hear what your experience has been with this.
I use ARP moly lube on all main cap bolts, connecting rod bolts, and head bolts/studs. I have explained it in other videos and yes it is important to use some type of quality lube when fastening parts together.
@@metalshaperJeep Thanks for getting back to me Brian. I will look out for it in your videos.
So glad to see a new video up! How’s the snow blower Jeep and the welder Jeep?
Both are moving along slowly. The shop is busy and my time is short for those projects. Ready to start fitting an engine in the CJ3B and decided against the Kubota and the GM V6, and am trying like crazy to find a good Cummins 4BT. Keep your eyes open they are hard to find around here.
Brian
metalshaper I’ll put some feelers put. That sounds like an awesome swap!
Thanks Brian, glad to hear you guys are ok. Are you able to ship lubricants? Take care, Will
still shipping daily as long as I have lubricants in stock. Getting them made is tough because the company making them is closed, but I still have drums on the floor that should last a while.
Brian, thanks for the informative videos. I'm having rear main seal issues on my 1952 M38A1 rear main oil seal after replacing with Neoprene seal from Kaiser Willys Jeep and developed a leak shortly after. I went to the Best Gasket web site and see they now offer a "new and improved" gasket. Did they listen to you, or should I go to the rope?
Tom
Brian you said on the video that no spray welding. What type of welding are they doing .Also when you sell the round rubber seal are they cut to length,if not how high above the block should it be.
rubber dowels should be 1/4" above surface so oil pan can squeeze them and make them expand.
As far as crank welding different shops do different things, some use mig, some use tig. Whatever you do don't use a crank that has been spray welded, it just won't last and will get into the engine oil system and wipe out the entire engine.
Brian
Brian ... I have an idea you can evaluate an maybe do a test. Threaded groove in the crank a few thousands away from the seal area; as the crankshaft turns during the combustion cycle pushes the oil away from the seal minimizing the amount of oil pressure against the seal. your customer, Juan... Puerto Rico
It will not work against oil pressure. The easiest thing to do is have the crank surface enlarged as I showed in the video.
Are there other engines with similar dimensions? I know some Olds 455 guys would have a hard time finding a good real main seal. However, a few found out that a Ford 460 seal would fit. In addition, the higher priced Ford 460 seals have been said to be better than any Olds 455 seal.
I’ll probably never have a 2a but this was interesting nevertheless.
I’m wondering if you can’t cut the seal shorter with a razor blade? I know it sounds crazy but with a jig and some trial?
It will not work that way. OD an ID need to be perfect if you want any chance of holding back oil under pressure.
Great info @metalshaper have you tried shaving .157" off the end of the best seal to snug it down to the stock 2.310" OD?
It doesn't work when shaved down. Oil still sneaks by the seal if it isn't seated tightly in the oil groove of the block.
@@metalshaperJeep oh so OD is exact but ID is oversized. Oof
Hey Brian, another question, which way do you install the best rear main seal. It didn't come with any instructions. Writing/part numbers facing inside engine or towards flywheel?
Lip always goes to oil side
Welding a crank to fit the seal beyond spec is hard to understand.The stock rope seal has always worked on the L-134 engine, provided the crankshaft seal surface cleans up or needs a build back uo to 2.310.Just to use a certain brand seal?
I watched your video on the Rear Seal. I am returning my Crank to my machine shop to check the back bore to make sure it is 2.335. If not, I am going to have him weld and grind. I want no problems. You mentioned also about the rubber dowels where you found some Viton material that fits perfectly. How do I go about getting some for my F4-134 Engine? Obviously, paying is not an issue just get back with me.
you can reach me directly at metalshaper@comcast.net I have the Viton rubber seals in stock and ready to ship.
Brian
I've not found your email address yet.... i was wondering if I could purchase a set of patterns for a CJ2A, I've looked at Aluminium bodies but I'm not sure it will give me the level of satisfaction and customisation I am looking for.
That's good info, I just bought a 65 CJ that the seller had the engine rebuilt in, and the rear main is leaking like a bitch I am going to attempt to put a rope seal in, wish me luck !
I am hoping to come out with a rope seal install soon. Take you time putting in the rope seal and make sure your seal area on the crank is in good shape before installing the seal.
I purchased a rear main seal that was labeled as a Best seal. It was delivered in a plastic bag. I became suspicious because it just did not seem correct that a product like a seal would be delivered that way. When I got closer to doing the install I actually called Best. I spoke to someone who I believe was in the engineering group about the size and whether it should be trimmed. She said that it was designed to be crushed. During the call she mentioned instructions that come with kit, which I did not receive. I decided it would be better to buy a new seal from "their" distributor, not a Willys parts supplier. She specifically recommended one that would have the gasket required in stock. When it arrived it came in Best packaging and included the instructions that she mentioned. I have not yet started the engine, so I have no idea if my suspicions were correct. I hope they were, I really don't want to go back in there again. As always, thanks for all the information and videos. I can't imagine me getting my project done without your help!
Did you buy their rope seal or neoprene seal that I made the video about? They do make both and the rope seal is not too bad. If you have installed their neoprene seal, then plan on a bad leak. I have tried to talk to them many times but no luck, they just don't want to hear that their seals are not the right size.
@@metalshaperJeep It was the neoprene. I purchased because it was being advertised as a new and better gasket. At this point I'll just wait for the leak to happen before I replace it. What a pain...
@@metalshaperJeep Here is what led me to buy the seal. jeep1942.com/?page_id=4123
I see that all the time and I don't know where the reviews came from. I have had 7 installs and 7 failures due to people insisting I use the best gasket seal. Since making the video and tracking the results of the seal have over 63 guys that tell me the seal failed upon start up. They are just not made right. I hope things work out for you, let me know when you start your engine and how it goes.
Brian
@@metalshaperJeep will do!
Brian how do I get the Viton seals from you?
I am dealing with the question of the size to regrind the crank after welding it up- to use the Best seal. Has the problem with the Best seals requiring a built up surface been corrected? I've found these numbers. First, the Willys documentation, 2.331-2.3341, peraps the specification for when rope seals are used, my guess. Second is from a 2002 document from the association representing rebuilders (AERO), which recommends 2.3202 to 2.312, very close to Metalshaper's 2.310. And from this video is the 2.335 recommendation for the Best seals. I have asked sellers of the Best seals about this question, and haven't been able to get an answer.
The Best Gasket problem has been fixed and the new seals work perfectly with the factory size of 2.310". Problem is a lot of retailers still have the incorrect seal on the shelf, which will need the 2.335 size. If you want the correct seals the only guy I know that has good, fresh stock of new seals is Peter DeBella. If you give him a call and tell him that Brian sent you he will send you the correct, new seal that works at 2.310.
Hi Brian... With all the difficulty in finding quality parts for rebuilding original engines for these old jeeps, I'm wondering if you think putting a different/newer engine in instead would be a better option? I remember reading back in the 90's that ford pinto engines would fit with an adapter for the bell housing, and lately I've been thinking about the possibility of putting in a diesel engine from my father's 80's model Chevy Luv pickup that's sitting in a field rusting to pieces... I have a willys MB manufactured in March of '45 that I'm slowly working on.
In 1980, I put a 2000cc Pinto motor in my first 2A (a '47) and it was a great modification. I bought the jeep in pieces and parts with no original engine. I added a Warn overdrive at the time and could go nearly everywhere. Just my 2 cents.
The pinto engine made its way into many, many Willys Jeep vehicles and was a good swap back in the day and today. Main thing is to enjoy your jeep and have fun out on the road.
The Kubota diesel is a common and straightforward swap, and the Chevy 4.3 V6 is another great swap for these early vehicles. Good parts are still available for the Willys engines and I rebuild them every day and ship them all over the world. there are some tricks and tips that need to be known but they are great engines when built correctly.
Brian
@@metalshaperJeep All this is good to know... I've gone from wanting to make this a close replica of a WW II British LRDG / SAS desert jeep to now just getting it looking new and possibly making it diesel... Things change. You have an awesome channel.
@@sportsflicvideo That's cool... :) I'm probably leaning to completely rebuilding the L-head and keeping it for a spare but installing a diesel engine.
my rear main cap dont have that short tube on it is it a must have
Not all engines used a rear cap with the tube on it. Not necessary, the oil will return to the pan with or without the tube.
you can get all kind of jeep parts from M D JUAN in Manila, Philippines
Brian on thoughs two rubber plugs could you have tapped the holes and installed two pipe plugs 🐤😨
The rubber expands and seals the gap along the entire main cap. Almost 3" long needs to be sealed, so a cap wouldn't do anything.
Seems to me you could cut the Best rear main seal shorter? Good info.
No that will not work. OD and ID have to be perfect and there has to be the correct amount of squeeze on the crank if you have any chance of holding back oil pressure. These gaskets belong in the garbage if you don't prep your crank properly.
@@metalshaperJeep I see, must have metal inside.
Thanks
I remember seeing an gasket kit that used wooden dowels instead of rubber. You would think the wood would swell with the oil.
Don't use wood dowels. There are better materials out there that seal better and last longer
How do I get a hold of your products ? Do you have store to order from ?
you can contact me directly at metalshaper@comcast.net
Brian
I use to have to cut my seal on a 292 Ford Y block V8 truck motor
Hey Brian: Regarding the "Best" rear main seals, can you make a fixture/jig (sort of like the bearing cap with some material milled off) that the seal goes into that leaves the one end "proud" of the fixture surface. Then you can than remove a calculated amount of rubber to widen the gap?
Rear main seals need to be perfect and you can't make it fit because the OD and ID need to be perfect to properly squeeze on the crank and seal properly.
Dam Brian, you scared me with the rear main stuff. I thought buying "Best" seals was a good decision. I'm rebuilding my engine right now. It's an MB block. The best rubber plugs fit proper, but the felpro 100% are to small... verified my crank, MB, 2.309... Best rubber seal is too big. Period.
I was gonna use a rope seal, hopefully you do a video on it. I've watched greendot319's install and was gonna do the same. Tnx
Yes, Best gaskets are way too big, don't try using it. When doing a rope seal take your time and make sure you don't have it too loose or too tight. I make put everything aside and do a rope seal install video early next week, there seems to be a lot of interest.
Brian
See if you can get someone to make those gaskets
Tried in the past but the minimum order would have put me in the poor house eating cat food. Can't find someone that will work with a small shop like mine.
Not sure if you have seen the Joes motor pool rear main seals. Wonder if you'd do a review of em. They good, bad or indifferent? Part number TN35UQUW. Joe's motor pool .com Tnx.
Will do a review as soon as I get on in my hands to try.
@@metalshaperJeep could you inform. me (address }about the shop that weld and grind L134 for you I am in Florida Agust Luther