Waves COSMOS Sample Finder - Best FREE Plugin of 2022 (or EVER)?
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- čas přidán 22. 08. 2024
- Waves Cosmos Sample Finder - Best FREE Plugin of 2022 (or EVER)?
Cosmos just might be the best free plugin that I’ve come across so far! This is an extremely well-thought-out and designed sample library tool you can use to quickly create loops.
In this video, I’ll give you an overview of the plugin and walk you through a quick way to create a beat that can be used to start a track.
Don’t forget to download this one while it’s still free!
Have you tried Cosmos yet?
Let me know what you think in the comments!
🔥🔥 GET COSMOS for FREE (Affiliate Link)
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🔥🔥 Get CR8 Creative Sampler (Affiliate Link)
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Timestamps
0:40 Using Cosmos with CR8
1:00 Accessing Cosmos in CR8
1:35 How to find your local folders
2:50 Using tags in Cosmos
3:45 3 different file view options
4:05 Using Cosmos view for one shots
4:50 Sorting options in Cosmos view
6:45 Sorting by instrument
8:30 Building a drum groove with Cosmos & CR8
14:20 Using other samplers in Cubase Pro with Cosmos
14:45 Final thoughts on Cosmos
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Tested it and it definitely needs some updates:
- it has an emormous CPU usage, while analyzing, I can't run bigger projects in Cubase
- the bar on the left is not resizable, long sample folders are not fully displayed
- no drag'n'drop from the finder, only one by one with the plus sign. that takes a very long time for many folders to import
- only disabeling and not "soloing" a folder when you want exclusively see the files in a folder
- no settings in general
- it seems that it doesn't correctly analyze the filename, wrong tempos even when the tempo is in the filename
In these categories the ADSR sample manager wins
Good comment, spot on,
XO, the plugin they copied, is way better! You can sequence, add effects, create patterns/drum & percussion loops then instantly swap out the drums using that same pattern in seconds without going through a whole list and manually trying to find the right sounds to fit whatever project you're working on. XO is the goat for creating 100s of drum/percussion loops extremely fast. All this cosmo does is organize samples quickly
I was just about to comment the same thing. XO by XLN Audio
Facts. XO is so DOPE
@@TheManInCommand don’t you mean XLN audio?
xo is great, but this cost me nothing. I don't really need the sequencer so I'm perfect for this
@@AziDoesQuestionableThings Yea, I have multiple sequencers too but the way XO has it inside their plug-in, I love. Because I don’t have to launch my daw to make loops, spark ideas or just practice and play around a bit. Sometimes I just don’t want to think about making a whole production and with all the feature packed in this bad boy, I can use it standalone and get busy.I find that opening my daw usually leads to me thinking about music in a different way…idk, xo just brings a different type of creativity out of me..
There is a fine line between making music and playing video games, it is a wonder that anybody actually finishes a song nowadays
All of these plugins so fun it makes music production like a video game. And u win everytime
This is great! Already downloaded and installed, it's scanning my tens of thousands of samples right now. I find I rarely use most of my samples (dating back decades!) because they are such a disorganized mess. This is going to be a game changer!
Thank god I've organized all my stuff, started music in 2016, started organizing sample packs in 2018
Glad you like it! Enjoy!
Hey Scott, do you want to share those samples with some of us that are new to the sample game?
I’ve been using sample manager but this looks promising
Hi mate, how do you get cosmos? I signed up with waves and when i try to download cos mos nothing is happening. its keeps saying it has sent me a copy of cos already but i cant see where they sent it. Also there is nothing in my cart? Can you help?
I watched this video for less than 10 seconds and said I’m coppin this
Thanks for the great video Chris! Yes, Cosmos is super cool. When I got the Waves newsletter in my inbox two days ago, I immediately downloaded the plugin - it's a lot of fun to work with. Keep rocking Chris! 😎👍
Very cool! Thanks!
Cosmos and the CR8 are the only plugins I have from Wave and they are the best. Only disadvantage of CR8 is, you can't automate the sample offset without having digitial noise. Moving manually works fine. And for Cosmso I would wish to have a AU or VST3 version or a Ableton Link sync for loops.
I bought it and I can't run it in freakin' High Sierra in an age when manufacturers are dropping Lion support in favor of Mavericks support? Thanks, Waves. I'm stuck with my 2011 MBP i7 that still flies and can't update past 10.13.6 - I'm just saying, beware the evil system requirements. Just when I thought Waves finally did something nice for us LOL
End of rant. Great review. For those in need of an easy free sampler, I just started tooling around with TX16Wx and it even loads EXS24 presets, which is very cool and well needed!
Have a great day bro!
ADSR Manager is still #1 for me but this is cool !
This is amazing! What a time saver!
Again Thanx for all the informative videos!
This is free it's a no Brainer and the cr8 10 bucks this is so great
Chris, it's only because it's you why I'm still watching this video. Otherwise I would have already gone over to the Waves website.
Wait a minute... I can! DOH!
It's a game changer... at least from a workflow perspective.
Shoot! Got me the CR8, too!
Lol! Awesome, Simon! Glad you like this one!
There is a problem when adding local folders to Cosmos. My drive (L:) is dedicated to store all my samples. In this drive, I have hundreds of folders that contains samples. When I try to add drive L as local folder, it is not allowed because it only accept folder name, and I cannot add multiple folders at the same time as well. As a result, I have to add my sample folders one by one, which is extremely time consuming. Wondering is there any way to add my entire sample drive to Cosmos? Thanks.
Nice. I guess there is no way to have it access the Cubase content i.e. from Halion?
You got it :-)
Whoa!
I'm not big on samplers but I wonder what is the difference between the CR8 and sampler track in Cubase ?
Mild integration of granular synthesis, sample stacking (which I’m not sure sounds good for beyond two) and knobs you can automate (this last feature seems cool plenty of places it probably has use)
@@HUSTLERSINC Thanks :-)
@@ziebanez Np!
Nice video man thanks
Thank you, Chris
Very cool! But how is this different than the Cubase media browser which scans all my folders for samples and other content and can be filtered, searched an auditioned. Is this for folks that do not have Cubase?
It's a different workflow that is more visual than Mediabay
@@mixdownonline Thanks, Chris!
THis is pretty cool - I was able to have it scan all of my Native Instruments samples, but I was not successful in having it pul samples from Cubase or Ableton collections of loops or one-shots. With Cubase, it found no files ( I guess these are all opaque to Cosmos). With Ableton, it also did not find any samples. I opened the package content for each Pack and copied the Samples folder elsewhere and then tried to have Cosmos scan that Samples folder. It did scan that samples folder, but all of the samples were found to be corrupted when I clicked on them in Cosmos.
Hey Chris, Thanks for the Video !
You're welcome!
@@mixdownonline Salut Chris j`ai un petit bémol sur le program CR8 :)
l`installateur n`a pas d`option vers ou installer la bank de sample. Pour les gens comme moi qui on un HDD dédier au sample et qui ne veule pas grossir le Disk OS pour rien c`est un peu plate. J`ai déplacer le dossier de sample manuellement mais je ne sais pas comment le réindexer dans le logiciel
If I already have Cubase Pro, is it worth buying CR8 as well? Or the Cubase sampler is good enough? Thanks.
Awesome!
Cool! Like Manna from Heaven. One question. Can this be used instead of Media in Cubase? If so, how?
Yes it can, like I do in the video. The only thing though, is that it will not detect Steinberg's .vstsound files, but all audio files, yes
Hi Chris,
thanks for this informative and helpful video about the COSMOS Sample Finder, finally I have an overview of my samples! Maybe you can help me: when I have the CR8 Creative Sampler open in Cubase 11 Pro and open the Sample Finder, the CR8 Creative Sampler disappears into the background, although in the VSt settings "Plugin editors 'Always in foreground'" is checked. Thank you and best regards from Vienna
Hi Chris. Thanks for the demo. I might grab this but I am already a user of LoopCloud and I am trying to see just how much would I use this. I am sure I will play with it a bit but how many of the same tools or very similar tools does a person need?
Does Studio One Artist have a Beat Designer that I can use instead of the Steinberg?
Downloaded .. amazing .. QUESTION - I have a folder with about 300 gated synth samples and they all show up in Cosmos list view BUT when I got to COSMOS view only 6 show up and I have not selected any filters - not just this folder - is there a way to get more into the Cosmos view? Thanks. (Wonder if it has to do with tagging?)
Im searching a vst program - a sampleplayer with scatching fx.
which makes maybe from a "hello" sample a "hellellololohe" and adds scratching noise.
I saw something like this years ago. Do you have an idea which program could do this?
Best wishes from Berlin
Hi Chris, nice video thanks 👏a question, installing Cosmos duplicates the space already used by my libraries of loops and samples or makes a virtual storage
It just scans your actual sample folders, nothing more...no virtual storage or anything
Hi mate, how do you get cosmos? I signed up with waves and when i try to download cos mos nothing is happening. its keeps saying it has sent me a copy of cos already but i cant see where they sent it. Also there is nothing in my cart? Can you help?
@@djempathie.9889 You can find it on the Waves Central stand alone application, have you installed it? you can find all your activated plugins and install them as you like
@@gianniemmedeejay Hi mate, i download cosmos and now it says trying to connect to data base for 1 hour, but still nothing. is this normal?
Awesome video. Love COSMO and CR8. Very easy to use. Never had the need for loops, (got heaps of them through NI) but after the video I'm into it. Thanks.
I bought this awhile ago. I know it may be a db question, but can I use the samples and mix it in to my own instruments and then post it online/sell in my work as an album?
honestly this time im not gonna hate on waves. No update plan for a free plugin - I guess? Interesting move going "against" atlas and xln's approach, waves has the capacity to develop this into a crazy good tool and I bet they will try to breach into that sample sales market as well, probably trying to sell samples when you search for specific things, similar to splice when you look for similar samples. Which brings me to the next point. SPLICE - where is your sampler? edit: thanks for the video great first look.
Hi can you let me know why cosmos doesn’t seem to put my rock guitar samples into key scale? They only show up when I don’t select the key tab
hi sir....i have problem with cubase 11 export dialog box..it's simply too BIG for my screen and i already set my monitor to highest resolution also i try to resize the dialog box and it still too big,i can't see the export button
is there any way to solve this problem without adding any extra screen??
Any comparrison with ADSR or Loopcloud?
Cosmos view looks like XLN's XO or Atlas - which is a great as it expands to other instruments and categories.
I'm on very slow internet so will take me a few days to download. So great to see your video. Thanks
Glad you enjoyed the video -)
this is awesome but I have a question is this plugin AI based or do you have to categorise them by a certain name?
I have 45 000 samples, when i type "kick" in the search bar it finds 2596 samples (so i am quiet sure some thousand are laking) and when i go in the "cosmos view" it only show 1015 of them. If i choose drum + kick as tags it then only show 586 sample in "cosmos view" and 696 in the list view...it is a mess sorry.
Need to see more of its capabilties withing VSTi context. Can you audtion samples in realtime while in playback? Can it auto pitch samples to key, time stretch etc in playback more?
Whats a few good plugins that does all that?
@@natewilliams6445 Loopcloud (no good if your not paid subscriber) but ADSR is free. Best I know of so far. I welcome more suggestion...
Just saw this today, and attempted to download. Sadly, Cosmos is no longer free from Waves, and is regularly priced at $29.99 USD.
Hi! Thank you for the review! Can I do custom tagging for my samples in this app?
Yes you can, by clicking on the 3dots at the right of the samples. You'll can add tags and edit tags also
I think xo by xln audio is better for my workflow for a couple of reasons:
1. It has vst integration and can be opened within the daw which, from my knowledge, cosmos doesn’t
2. It allows you to create drum loops from your drums and incorporate those creatively into your productions (uses every drum)
3. Cosmos bpm and key finder may be less accurate than the one I use (mixed in key) also a lotta loops I use are composites of instruments, and even using this to organize one shots seems pointless
but isnt xo just for drums?
@@mugatu8732 Its for drums I mean it is in vst format
Can you move a sample from Cosmos to Cubase Sampler Track?
Does anyone know how to import Cubase libraries (.vstsounds) into Cosmos?
Hi Chris, and thanks for another very useful video! I downloaded and installed both Cosmos and CR8 but after the first launch, if I closes it, Cosmos crashes at start after a message saying it's trying to connect to sample database... No way to solve it, even after reinstalling... I wrote to Waves support but I got no answer yet... Anyone had this problem too? Thanks very much for helping!
Nice looking but has a real problem with indexing. Seems it cannot handle sub-folders. It assumes you have one folder with all your samples in it. I've got a structure in place and there is no way to get this to grab them all - was told to add individual folders one at a time. I'll wait for a future release update - hopefully they'll add in more robust indexing.
Interesting, I didn't notice, thanks for pointing that out!
Just downloaded, looks and sounds great.
Awesome!
Hi mate, how do you get cosmos? I signed up with waves and when i try to download cos mos nothing is happening. its keeps saying it has sent me a copy of cos already but i cant see where they sent it. Also there is nothing in my cart? Can you help?
@@djempathie.9889 Try installing Waves Central app and it should be there and then you download and install and it will automatically activate.
@@nzprojects Hi mate, i signed up with wave central, is that what you mean? Ok i will download wave central app.
@@djempathie.9889 Yes thats what i ment. Waves Central app. You just sign in the app and install Cosmos, it should be there. Hope it will work, good luck and have fun with it.
Already Downloaded ans installed (monday evening). After scanning I realized that I have more than 185K samples... uau! And Cosmos take a bit more time dealing with such number of samples. Just for reference I hold a computer with 24 cores (CPU), 64 GB (Ram) and 2 TB (SSD) and one request can take 2 to 20 seconds to respond...
That's a heck of a computer you have there
Ok, WTF? Why didn't anyone tell me about this before? I spend so much time loading different plugins and sample libraries looking for a sound. And FREE!
It just came out today! :-) Enjoy!
You need too sign up to the waves newsletter they were giving a heads up for about 3 weeks via email
My samples folder is also named 'Samples and Loops' 😎
Lol! We think alike, I guess :-)
Xo from xln... 😉
xln xo is much better off course and it has its own built in sampler inside and you can sync in your daw. still thanks to waves for giving this for free.. I already have downloaded it but I wont compare this to XLN XO honestly.
used until now the ADSR sample manager, let's see if that one is better...
Let me know!
Why would you ever need this many samples. Why would you not just use a vst instrument and shape the exact sound you want or just record it your self? This seems like an overload of options.
Is this a better workflow than using Media Bay and the Cubase sample track?
Good question because Media Bay already does all of this
The visual workflow is different and Cosmos uses AI to scan your loop/Sample folder and adds a bunch of Tags according to the loop or sound scanned.
@@mixdownonline thanks. I love the tagging thing. I haven't been able to try it out because Cosmos just freezes on it's load up screen saying it's connecting to the Database. I'm waiting for a response from Waves support. With CR8, I like that you can load up 8 samples at a time to create unique sample instruments.
@14:36
Where you drag from Cosmos onto a pad in groove agent - When I try to do this, whenever I click on the Cosmos program, the Groove agent pop-up in cubase disappears, like it's minimised or something - how can I get it to stick like in the video so I can drop samples straight onto the pads??
Right-Click on the Top of Groove Agent and make sure "Always on Top" is Unchecked. That should work!
@@mixdownonline That worked! Btw I just want to say it's so cool that I can ask you something and you replied! I've watched countless hours of you telling me all sorts of useful things but this is the first time we've had a conversation :)
i hate Waves as a company in general. Aside from that, Cosmos has never worked on my machine properly. there is a conflict with an extension and I have no idea what it is, and for me to diagnose it for an app that I'll probably hate... enough said. Loopcloud which you can upload your library to, and Sononym work great.
how long does it take to scan a 1TB folder, its been 2 days now and its not even at half way.
It took me between 30-45 mins
I wish loops were also loaded in 'cosmos' mode.
No longer free now that they have subscriptions, unless you get it along with the CR 8 sampler as a standalone purchase. If Cosmos is purchased without CR8 or a subscription, it's $30, but currently on sale for $15 and there's no plug-in version without buying it with CR8, which is normally $65 and currently on sale for $30.
I love waves, but I love them more now....
Lol, for sure!
If you have multiple drives for different things when you first launch this thing - "This may take a few seconds" - is crap. It's a complete dumb oversight to have this program scan your entire computer and all it's drives to scan all audio everywhere. It should ask you where to scan before it does anything. This thing has been scanning wayyyyy too long. Anybody have expierience on how long it took on your computer?
Is it still free?
Not for some one who is still using Windows 7 64bit .... can this be installed ?
Win7 is not supported with new Waves Plugin versions
What is CRA?!!!
10:37 - how can I do that in FL Studi? How can I do research about that? What words do I use?
Edit: Found it: Ctrl + B
Sorry, but I never worked with FL Studio
@@mixdownonline is there a name for that workflow? Marking one or more objects and let them repeat with a short key
Edit: Found it: Ctrl + B
the free version of xln xo
Not 100% the same, but amazing for a Free plugin :-)
I cant find the link to downlaod it. it always takes me to the plugin page where it says i already claimed it
Once you created your Waves account, you need to download the WAVES Central, this will manage your Waves plugins downloads and installation
@@mixdownonline yeah its working now for some reason it didnt show up
Just bought CR8 with Cosmos but it seems Cosmos is totally useless for use with quiet sounds such as ambient field recordings. If you add a folder with such sounds in it finds the files but it's analysis seemingly fails to detect audio so decides to just throw all the files away before telling you there isn't any. I wouldn't be bothered about it not being able to tag them if it just left them there so I can search for them by name. I was really hoping I could use this instead of Media Bay but I can't like this. Alright if you just want to make 'beats' but it's likely to ignore sounds below a certain volume or without a defined transient.
That's good to know, thanks for sharing
Media bay is just horrible .. even if that's the case i prefer this plugin
@@lolaproductions9725 Yeah that's why I got Cosmos, plus it's free. I'm still using it with all my other samples, currently loading them in. Just such a shame it won't accept my quiet field recordings. There should be a volume threshold you can change on the analysis or just be able to turn it off. I don't need them to be categorised if I can just search file names. Cosmos just throws them out tho.
This is the only waves plugin that my fl studio won't find while scanning I've never had a problem installing waves plugins before and yes I already downloaded and installed it in waves central now my fl just won't find it it's bugging me cuz I really need this. Does anybody have any suggestions cuz I'm at a brick wall
It is standalone app.
@@anarchy0208 I just figured it out thanks👌🏾
Algonaut Atlas 2 still blows this (and any other sample manager) out of the water. I wish more people supported that company, instead of Waves
do we need XO .......😩
Look like media Bay in cubase !
In a way, it does
Hi mate, how do you get cosmos? I signed up with waves and when i try to download cos mos nothing is happening. its keeps saying it has sent me a copy of cos already but i cant see where they sent it. Also there is nothing in my cart? Can you help?
install waves central, it's their plugin manager and from there you can install cosmos
Its just trying to connect with data base for 1 hour but nothing else.
At this point, contact the Waves Support team
@@mixdownonline thank you
I'm so angry with waves for the new Creative Access subscription only business model, I will unsubscribe and actively boycott any social media influencer endorsing the Waves business model and I encourage others to do the same! Influencer's, please take down all videos endorsing any Waves plugins in support of the community that helped to put you where you are.
This is a total betrayal of any non professional/semi professional bedroom producer who has invested in Waves Audio in recent years. This is a blatant bait and switch technique. I sincerely hope the full weight of all social media comes down hard on top Waves for this utter betrayal.
This community typically earn very little if anything at all, Waves know this but clearly does not care about those customers. Shame on you Waves Audio!
I completely understand the frustration, and trust me ido. I have no problems with a subscription model, but it's not a model that benefits bedroom music producers, so not good for everyone. So I don't support subscription ONLY models, but I support models that give the customers a choice. That's why I didn't make an announcement video on the Waves plan, and that's why I'm not gonna promote this plan or any new Waves plugins in my future videos, unless the model changes to give customers a flexible choice. My older videos featuring Waves plugins are gonna stay on my channel, I spend time making those videos, and they help people already using these plugins outside the subscription model. I still love Waves plugins, and love the guys at Waves too, but not crazy about the Subscription ONLY model. I hope to work with them again in the future, but for the time being, this is my stand on this.
Bro Where is Cubase 12 i Hope it Has a Some Good Updated Features it Might Not Even Be Worth The Update They Have Not Said Any Thing About Any New Features That is Making Me Think There is Not Any New Innovative Things Going To Be Added i Hope i Am Wrong
COSMOS is not available for Win 7 :( Very unfortunate!
:-(
Can cosmos scan the mediabay?
No, it cannot scan Steinberg .vstsound files, but will scan all audio loops and Samples
But if I add new sounds to folder I put on there will it automatically sync with it or do I gotta re scan it.
if it detects a change it'll prompt to scan only the new samples, otherwise all the labels are saved
All these companies copy each other’s products, I saw this idea online two years ago. This product uses your samples. Nothing new.
not free anymore...
Im on high sierra. So its useless for me.
:-(
they copied XO, but XO is still the better software , yeah its not free but it's a plugin which works as a rompler in context of your sessions. far faster.
Cool, cause I expect it to have more advanced features since you pay for it. That's fair!
I think Sononym is way better.
it's not free though.....
AND its call COSMOS not KOZMOS
Ummmm this is ADSR sample manager also free
Never heard of this one!
Ummm no.....This is different from ADSR
Maybe it's pronounced CReate
Maybe, that would make sense LOL
XLN Audio gotta get their stuff together with XO…this one is better and free, competition.
No where near better. No sequencer, no effects, no instant drum swap... XO is still winning
@@iceprada2 Agree, this one lacks the sheer feature set of XO, but is still serious competition for being free
@@AziDoesQuestionableThings Agreed!
@@AziDoesQuestionableThings Do a XO vs COSMOS video big bro
Algonaut Atlas is better than XO! Try it out.
When U drag & drop samples around.
Will dey get saved wit da project, othawise it’ll b a mess.
uh they will, your daw will handle that
@@AziDoesQuestionableThings r U sure?
Yep, it saved within your DAW Project
@@mixdownonline cool, thanx!
Every time I see people create music with loops, I cringe. Drums I have no problem with, but piano melodies, c'mon! :( I know that Chris is just showing the loop player though, so this is NOT aimed at him personally. :)
Newsflash: 99.9% of people making music never learnt an instrument.
So then you shouldn't be in music. Hip hop was born from sampling...learn your history..........creating is creating.......someone takes a mozart ballad and has the creative ability to flip it into something you can dance and rap to is so dope. Everyone doesn't have those skills..
@@MrMikomi Very sad!
@@iceprada2 So if I don't like loops, I shouldn't be in music, huh? ANYONE who is interested in music can certainly take the time and learn simple chords and runs. I have no formal training at all and am self-taught. I'm nobody special, so if I can do it, anyone can. Yeah, I know hip-hop......not a huge fan, but can attest that there are some really talented hip-hop artists for sure. The loop thing is just MY personal opinion, so no need to be combative over it. Many years ago, I did Industrial and loved using samples, warping them out to create something else, so I get it. It's just when I see such SIMPLE piano melodies that are looped for people to us, it's just a shame that people cannot put their fingers on a keyboard and figure their own melody out instead of using others....when it's really not hard at all to do. But hey, if the artist is just using it so he/she has a tune to sing on, then what the heck. Everyone has their own method and opinion on how to compose, I guess. Peace! :)
@@seanchristophersynthesizer6999 In my opinion, you should respect all the creative approaches to making music. I rrrsprct those who can do all the fancy stuff with their fingers and I respect those who loop a melody and create some crazy drum patterns using a mouse and keyboard. All approaches are just as creative and worthy. Looping and making it sound good is a science within itself! I’ve heard drake songs where a sampled and simple jazz riff is looped throughout the entire song but that doesn’t mean anybody could’ve done that.. While it seems simple, there are techniques only years of experience can teach you in those simple sampled records that people love.
SHIT GARBAGE STUCK ON CONNECTING TO DATABASE FOR 3 DAYS NOW WTF 😒
I think you should avoid pimping new products. For me at least it damages your credibility, especially when they are accompanied by radical claims that seem outrageous. From this channel I look for Cubase-centric information (why would I need Waves’ sampler) and solid workflow (is this software buggy? Can it handle large libraries?) This video doesn’t answer any of these questions. Disappointing.
What I share on my channel are recording and mixing techniques I use myself and also tools I work with to produce music... Cubase is one of them and also Waves and other plugins and Instruments. If you're looking for only Cubase-centric information, my channel will not give you that. Btw, you don't need the Waves Sampler, I never said that, this video is about the Sample/Loop Finder. I also share how you can use it in Cubase using tools like Groove Agent and the Sampler Track ;-)
AGAIN !!! another unnecessary VST
Copied concept of XO
but didn't xo copy atlas?
@@AziDoesQuestionableThings maybe but this layout looks more like XO visually IMHO
@@BenvelMusic I see, but if xln didn't put a patent on it, its any company's game to make some similar..... or very, very similar in this case lol
@@AziDoesQuestionableThings they sure did, Atlas had that look a year before XO came out!