Hot and Confused - Electrician Life
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 7. 09. 2024
- Hot and Confused - Electrician Life
Join me as I go slightly mad trying to do an EICR in 31 Degree Heat!
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You can cross your connections at a socket where it is easier to identify separate legs
im pretty sure he mentioned that he does that sometimes but the hotness must have gotten to his head :>DD
Be mindful of parallel paths when testing using this method.
@@ashmanelectricalservices4318 Yep, boilers are a favourite for that!
Just about to post that đ
@@TheChipmunk2008 had that just yesterday....
If you have the wrong legs you will get larger resistances the further you get away from the DB at each socket . Thats how you know you have the wrong legs. I think that's what you were asking about đ€
đ€Ș yeah
Other than visually tracing what legs goes with what or doing it at a socket, you can cross connect at the board, if you've got the right pair together, you should get relatively the same reading at each socket, if it climbs then falls, you've got the wrong legs connected at the board. Your reading at the board will be the same whatever legs you connect, it's when you start measuring at the sockets, you'll know if you've got the right legs together.
That rccb should be a fail as the plastic incase the arc if the rccb trips with a heavy load to stop further fire risks
Assuming no loads on the ring (so no continuity between line and neutral on the ring), Disconnect one line and neutral (same leg) at a socket and short them together. Then at the board test resistance. The line and neutral with continuity are the same cable.
Genius!
I really want MK to make a super high-end set of fittings and call them the MK Ultra line.
MK have gone to pot regarding quality imo
With tabs of acid included along with the screws
When you get legs right the reading should be around the same at each socket, when they`re wrong it increases the closer to the mid point of the ring
I feel your pain with the heat I was doing 2 EICRs yesterday and tenants were at home!!!
A little tip if no one has mentioned it - don't use the RCD test button until you've done your RCD testing. That's because it may hide a sticking RCD. Was told by a NICEIC inspector years ago
What I like about you Jordan is the clean language and you show it as it is - it's rare commodity đđœ
Thanks!
Unlike potty mouth Nagy!
hi all is there an MCB for the contactor ? Surely the coil supply needs fuse protection . There was a theory at one time that a twin socket was a single socket with a socket spurred off . Yes a lode of crap , but believe it or not electrical engineers started demanding we use single sockets as a pose to twin outlets . So in say school computer rooms instead of 45 sockets it was 90 . Total madness đ€Ș Best wishes Mike in the U.K.
My thought about broken RCCD; If there is a big fault in the circuit causing a plasma flash, it can leak out the hole & severely damage the rest of the consumer unit. (Thought curtsey of a BigClive video)
C3 for plastic board and nothing for surge as it is risk assessment based and only a recommendation. C2 for rccb.
If you go to a socket and link out the cpc to the line then back to board one end will bell out đđ»
I should have though of that! đ€Ș
if you`re removing a socket then just link it out there instead where both legs are easy to see
Good idea đ
This is so stupidly obvious Iâm ashamed I havenât thought of that before đđđ»
Iâd never trust a circuit schedule. You should always verify independently. Use it as a guide by all means....but never fully rely on it.
30degrees hot? Thatâs a nice cool summer day here, when it gets 40 or higher itâs time to complain đ
An solution for finding out which wires belong together in the ring is to place a self made plug which shorts between the pins and then measure the resistance at the consumer unit, the wires that has the same values are the ones that goes together in the ring. (or use resistors in the self made plug it and multimeter at the CU) AND place the plug somewhere in the start/end of the ring.
Sitting here with 6°C and freezing, I'll take your 31°C any day.
Winter is not my thing.
Short out live and earth in a socket using what ever method floats your boat.
Test between live and earth at the CU. Then test between the same live but other earth. The higher of the two readings will be the earth from the other leg.
(As long as you donât short out the socket that is exactly half way down the circuit đ)
You canât really code lack of spd with carrying out the crl calculation to find it whether it is even required
Get yourself a signal injector/tone generator. Connect at any part of the circuit and use the probe in the cu. A lot easier and non-invasive. Or short Line & cpc in circuit and meter for short (disconnecting in cu obv). Make up your own tracing plugs and it makes life a whole lot easier in situations like this.
I got my public liability with Rhino and they gave me a discount because of you! thanks man and keep up the great videos.
Yep with you on the someone trying to move the breakers around. Probably not thinking 'oh it's a starbreaker so they won't slide'
I'd code that as a C3 provided all the bits are out, C2 if I can't be sure... The danger is a piece of broken plastic being inside and jamming the mechanism
You could work it out mathematically then test at the board to make sure itâs roughly the right figure then test at sockets.
Jorden total respect to you young man.am a spark of 20 years.and have worked in school boiler rooms at full belt on old GEC red spot 3p boards.heat was unbearable.you doo a grand job young man.please be carefull.
Thanks!
Wow I felt your stress & tiredness Jordan.. We all have hot n bothered off days.. đ„đ I nearly fell asleep in a loft once in 30c đ brains can't function above 22c lol. That RCD would be a C1 for me. No longer in manufacturers spec, and unable to contain an arc flash, fire risk, especially in a plastic CU.
Especially in a plastic CU? What material is the RCCB made from?
@@petertallowin6406 NOT Plastic!..it is a flame retardant LSF material...self exstinguishing.
@@muzikman2008 So, a non melty plastic...
@@petertallowin6406 and zero halogen/fumes correct.
2012!! I was fitting halogen d/lights from the 1980's.
Broken RCD C1 all day long. Don't know what internal damage is
I would go c2 . The definition of c1 is immediately dangerous. C2 danger exists if a fault occurs. So sits between in my opinion.
C1 defo as the plastic case is designed to enclose to arc if its under load and it trips
Joshua Hutton yes but there was no fault when he was there so no itâs a 2 , to many sparks dishing out code 1s itâs ridiculous
You mad man
@@Mainly_Electrical that could be a fire hazard though if that breaker was to trip
Cracked rcd c2 for me
I know itâs probably the heat, but you canât downgrade a broken ring to two 20amp radials without further investigation. For all you know there is a damaged cable arcing away somewhere.
đ
Perform a IR test leg to leg on each conductor should be >999 or >299 megđ
Thanks I thought that and I am not an electrician. I do know that driving a screwdriver towards your free hand is going to hurt one dayđ€Ź
Nice to see it's not just me having the test lead challenge!
Cross connections at a socket
And yes I agree that Mr Savery knows his stuff đ€Łđđ€Ł
Don't put yourself down, it's just the unbearable heat getting to you
Another method would be to disconnect a socket, short out CPC and live on each cable in the socket. Then just test at CU which comboâs have continuity.
Once you've opened a socket and disconnected you may as well test from there
Anstiss Limited Not true, as that would not be the correct method of testing a ring final circuit, for reasons an experienced electrician will know.
In the heat đ„đ„”Our brains just shut down, thanks for keeping it real and showing the real world and uploading it, after a holiday its hard to get back in the swing of it again, dont over load yourself its ok to turn work away and say no sometimes.
I had it at 32 and 37°c displaying in the van yesterday. Had to go up a street light in the baking hot sun trying to look directly at it
To know you have the correct cross connection (figure of 8) at the consumer unit you need to connect them into connector blocks and test with your probes. If the reading isnât what you expect swap the cables round and try again.
The heat gets to me sometimes đ„
Every sparky I know would automatically fail the RCD, without a second thought.
r1+r2 / 4 should give you the R1+R2 reading so make the figure of 8 and go round with the plug tester and the reading should be around the mark you worked out đđ»
@@liamwilkinson8411 BS 7671 expressly forbids obtaining R1+R2 by calculation.
@@ashmanelectricalservices4318 I think he's just saying to calculate it first before testing
do the cross connections at a socket easy then and youve done an inspection behind socket in one go
Electrical Safety First EICR coding guide, p16: combustible CU is only a C3 if under wooden stairs or in sole route of escape. Otherwise, no code.
Try taking the R1+R2 reading at the socket terminals rather than using a plug in adapter usually much more accurate. Also do the cross connections at a socket rather than a crowded db
Different readings sockets, maybe one a spur?
Interesting video, did you find what the contractor did.
I feel your pain! I have absolutely done that trick with the wrong leads - and doing almost any electrical work in this heat is taking me 50% longer than it should do, at least. Unfortunately EICRs often need that brainpower to work out what the hell the installers were playing at, even on a recent build that *should* have been done to a higher standard than a 70s build.
One thing I've noticed on your EICRs - I can see the benefits of R2 testing with a wander lead especially for light fittings etc. But doing an EICR on a 15 year old flat recently I discovered the electric towel rail was wired in reverse polarity and had obviously been like that from build. I picked that up with R1+R2 but an R2 test wouldn't have picked it up. It was at least RCD protected as it was on the socket circuit, but nothing else was, even though the walls were metal framed. The joys of cheap new build flats!
Anyway, I am enjoying the content, keep them coming! - Electrical youtube is the one thing that keeps me sane sometimes after a long day struggling with a job - nice to know I'm not always the only one!
Surly the reverse polarity would have been picked up with your zS test
@@supersparks9466 Yes it would - but a lot of electricians only do Zs at sockets on an EICR, or not at 100% of fittings anyway.
So I guess my point is that if you do R2 to a point instead of R1+R2, then you should also do Zs at that point to ensure polarity. Whereas if you do R1+R2 at a point you don't then need to do Zs at every one of those points (the highest R1+R2 will give the highest Zs in almost all cases)
@@gibberingidiot well no sparks can tick the correct polarity box unless every outlet is checked, easy at sockets and just lazy if not taking off the towel rail spur or flex outlet plate.
C2 for the RCCB. Not compliant with the manufactures instructions. If the flat burns down, good luck explaining why you left it like that!
đ
C1
Jordan Muir C1 means danger is currently present and there is risk of shock. The consumer unit has a cover, so there is only potential for danger. This means itâs a C2.
If you class it as a C1 you have to turn the system off and issue a danger notice or repair the fault there and then. Itâs not that extreme.
@@thething1749 would seriously be questioning why it has melted through and if that RCCB fails there is no protection to the tenant
Jordan Muir itâs obviously not melted, itâs been cracked. You are not allowed to walk away from a C1 code, it means danger is present and you need to rectify it immediately or isolate the power.
what was the contactor doing?
A true eco warrior would repair that RCCB with superglue.
đ€Łđ€Łđ€Ł
Haha didn't watch the content but title made me chuckle. Did an EICR Tuesday. Swear to god felt like downing tools hate eicr's best of times but in this weather was unbearable
At 0:59 is a heat alarm as it has a thermistor in it I have one of those in my kitchen
Wow 33° want a cup of cement to harden up pom? Try crawling round a ceiling space when it's 45°. Ho ho, Anyways thanks for the great content bud.
đđ
SPDâs are not a requirement within domestic installations are they?it is down to the designer/test engineer to make an educated assessment as to the needs of the customer and dwelling and to recommend one. regarding identifying ring ends for R1+R2 you can identify a set of ends by linking out at a socket, obviously only proving that you only have continuity between one Live and cpc at the board before proceeding and not multiple earth paths.
You need to do a risk assessment if you're not gonna fit an SPD during a board change.
Artisan Electrics
It's virtually impossible to provide a practical risk assessment as all the factors cannot really be proved.
Easier to offer an SPD to the client and explain. If they take a position and refuse the additional protection you should theoretically not be responsible.
I wanna see Jordan and David Savery switch places. Jordan dresses like David and talking like him too, and vice versa with David dressing and talking like Jordan xD
đ€Łđ€Łđ€Ł
Good idea :) :)
Would be comical.. but firstly different clientele, just gotta find Jordan a maccy d hat đ€Ł
I'm a bit confused. When you are checking the tightness of the screws you say you dont need to torque them as you aren't tightening them down, just checking nothing is loose. However you have undone all the ring connections in order to perform the tests. Are you not required to torque them up properly as in effect you are now the installer?
If they're moving in tomorrow and you fail it today, can they still move in?
Nope, they cant sign a tenancy agreement without a satisfactory EICR
@@artisanelectrics thas what I thought but I was watching the NICEIC coding clinic and that was one of the questions and they said yes on condition that there are no C1...perhaps they didn't think about the tenancy agreement part đ€·ââïž
If it hadn't been the wrong lead on the tester my bet was someone taking an original socket and replacing it with two, splitting the ring in the process...
Don't beat yourself up
I did the same with my leads the other week, you don't half feel stupid when you find see them not connectedđ
HAHA thanks thats encouraging
Exactly so easily done when youâre distracted by the heat of tiered or rushing. I bet it wonât be the last time you do it! Iâve done it a few times and yes you feel like an idiot when you see it, but youâre glad itâs that!
Watch those sweaty hands on insulated tools mateđđ
25mm Meter tails run 15m from outside meter to consumer unit understairs. Would you put it down as a c1 or c2. Has no mechanical protection from entry to building alway to consumer unit. Its a newish build and im confused how it got passed as I always install a wylex 80a switched fuse spur and armoured to location. Whats your thoughts, would you fail it
80 amp switched fused spur ?
@@Mainly_Electrical I put a 100a wylex switched fused spur in and put 80a fuse in carrier. Have done it this way always. What way do you do it then as you wouldnt have a 100a main fuse and 100a in switched fuse no discrimination
Same as you bud but itâs a switch fuse , not switch fuse spur đ
@@Mainly_Electrical hahaha what dick iam lol
Your assuming the DNO fuse rating is 100 amp , this looks like a flat so its possible its 80 or even 60 amp , i personally wouldnt rely on any amp rating on the side of the DNO cut out , as it might represent a max capacity not the capacity of the supply
How about you re place that broken rccb
have you ever been to add to a new, like really new, like 3 months old install, and found most of the consumer unit is loose?
i have. who has done this i'm thinking... oh yes that's right... the General Builder.
0.13 on the fig 8 test makes sense. Could there be some contact resistance on the socket with a higher reading?
Re hydrate Jordan, your brains frying!!
Lol you know that feeling when you're coming back from holiday and you don't want to go back to work? Not really I'm in the US we don't really get holidays. I suspect it might be like coming back from the weekend but just slightly worse?
Great video! - I'm still on tenterhooks on the reason for the contactor. Can I prescribe a large glass of something from Scotland and 9 hours sleep. Works for me.
Irn Bru? :D
@@TheChipmunk2008 Yup - Topped up with "The Glenlivet"
Would need half a bottle for 9 hours... Contactor's for heating I imagine
Jordan I think you should've just had a day off, glad it's not just me who has these days!
Is it allowed to run multiple wires from a single circuit braker in the UK?
Yes
Since when are spdâs compulsory on a domestic install?? 18th edition doesnât say that.
That heat is like everyday for us here in Australia..
how do you break a side piece from an rccb?????
Split the ring in to 2 radials send power up one leg identify where it starts and stops. Do the same with the other leg. They will meet in the middle
your right theres nothing wrong with a plastic board, if there was they would have stopped us installing them on all installations. But in this case maybe you would be justified in coding it as a 1 or 2, because that is one of the brands that failed the hot wire test and they were just putting a british standard sticker on to say it passed.
Switches on sockets , and the socket spring connection that plug is inserted into can have different resistances especially on well used or cheaper sockets. cheaper sockets use a cheap alloy .well used sockets are often high resistance .I can usually feel the plug is easily removed from socket. I test socket circuits every day on a large campus.
Nice thanks
@@artisanelectrics Have you used the auto test function on the fluke 1664 , it's a game changer testing socket circuits where you are unsure loads have been removed . Thanks for the great content in your videos.
Colin, let's say you identified a high resistance at a socket when testing using the plug in lead, you unscrewed the socket and tested at the terminals and reading is as expected so you know it's down to the actual socket. How would you code that and do you feel the socket warrants replacement?
@@Daniells1982 Hi I would code it C2 if I felt the resistance would cause safety issues , normally this resistance would only get higher over time , this is what I have found looking at it from a maintenance point of view , where sockets are used by students , staff , contractors , example cleaning staff using wet vacuum cleaners . I would be concerned resistance could cause safety issues with disconnection times ect.
Any socket found with resistance issues I would replace.
@@colinleahy4824 yeah fair comment mate. I'd tend to agree. Have you found that although high R1 + R2 are achieved or they fluctuate, clearly down to wear and tear of the socket terminals, that your Zs reading always seem to be within tolerance and quite consistent?
NAPIT Code Breakers is a useful book for choosing EICR codes.
Yeah Iâve got it, itâs great!
What was the temperature? I don't think you mentioned it đ
HOT
đ€Ł
31 i think.
My NICEIC assessor recently said to me no code for no SPD on a domestic property.
For me its only a note to be made.
@@SME_Ste @Solar Rover I totally agree you cannot and should not enforce the regulations retrospectively, no code should be entered for lack of SPD or plastic CCU just a note for each (code N/A) would be different if built after 1st Jan 2019.
The code is N/A
C3 for a plastic board installed in a previous edition of BS7671. I guess a C3 for no SPD too. But what about afdd? Would they need a C3 code at some point in the future or am I ahead of myself?
Could do it as a recommendation as it's a multiple dwelling building. Some new houses are getting afdds only on the kitchen ring.
Wow circuit schedule havenât seen that add a schedule of all tests results - at least RCD trip current and times and that would be an excellent documentation available at DB. 31c hot pahhh been in an attic for a week and a half running wire, stapling on joists and adding guard rails in cramped circumstances temperatures around 53c - doing it in 1 hour blocks come out dripping with sweat and completely wiped.....mind you this is in Virginia at height of summer. I completely sympathize with electricians having to work in very difficult situations no wonder things donât go to plan and somethings itâs exhausting but you know what do as much as you can and come back that way you are always making progress. Good to see mutual respect for fellow electricians I am sure Mr Savary will be pleased but we all know the brains of that operation is Nigelđ€Ł
Haha đ
Are you sure you donât have a temperature? You got back from France just in time
Don't worry mate we all have our off days đ
Wargo connector đ
definitely need an R to go to war !
Awesome video must be hard in that heat
Yeah it was đ
Hi bit
disappointed this time as you said you were going to find out what the thing was wt the end but you never mention it again, just would of liked to of known what it was as I have come across a few of them but never managed to find out what it was. As for your end to end when I tend to do them at the CU the last one I did I got 0.00 across alll 3 but when I did it at a socket was ok any idea why?
Yeah sorry I had to stop filming as I was too hot! I do my end to end at sockets sometimes as well, not sure why you would get 0 at the CU though...
@@artisanelectrics That makes 2 of us.
They will be EICR videos for the next 6 months +
Not from me there wonât be
David slavery, clever guy, foil mouth.
Lol true
Hes got a foul mouth? Does he wrap his sarnies in it?
@@SME_Ste chicken sarnies
i love him, talks like every tradesman i've ever met, lol
@@artisanelectrics Agree he's a clever bloke and I respect his electrical skills, the potty mouth publicly shown though does not endear him to me. In one of his own videos he finds it hilarious when a rather well to do Female customer refers (innocently) to a "Lady Garden". I bet if she ever saw his "post" she would be mortified.
Nice job and video
Thanks!
I would take the broken RCD as a potential fire risk. The casing being open on the side instead of closed could potentially cause a flashover to the connections nearby if a decent spark passed across the contacts. We have different codes here in Australia, so not sure how I would code it under your standards, but I'd be marking it for a replacement here.
Test at a socket outlet mate
Have you considered wearing shorts and a t shirt in this heat?
Aha, youâre human after allđ đđ
Brain Fog happens to the best of us, I've gone back to jobs the next day after not finding something and thought what was I thinking of, tiredness and Heat exhaustion can muddle the brain
You need to carry a 20â box fan with you
Nowhere to plug it!
what??!! no AC in the apartment? you poor guy!
out of interest, what do you charge for an 8 circuit property?
Heat exhaustion in full evidence, you can't think clearly and have no energy left and there is little you can do except cool down somehow. 80% humidity with 30c is beyond what you should be working in.
Thanks yeah it was insane
C2 the broken RCCB
It's time ring circuits were left in the past where they belong, what a waste of time.
If that does happen then we will have much more radial circuits at the consumer unit with 4mm cables
Are you postman pat's son
16:30 omg, hate it when that happens ;-(