STOP doing evangelism. (Make disciples instead!!)
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 9. 07. 2024
- In this video I want to explain why I think the way the church is going about evangelism at the moment is not helping and in fact even hinders the gospel. I think we need to stop evangelising and start doing discipleship instead.
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00:00 Introduction
01:26 Five key lessons
06:53 The 'line of belief'
09:36 Discipleship - the missing word
13:15 What should we do?
15:52 Some encouragement from history
20:38 Final encouragement
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Do you know about The Clergy Project? It's something every religious leader should know about.
Alright vejeke what is your point?
At university I attended a church which had a mantra of disciple making disciples. This was taken from the logical endpoint of the great commission. They took developing their cingrigents very seriously, and in the church was stronger.
which church are we referring to...so many competing groups
There's a ton of overlap, but when we say "the church", it usually means whichever church you belong to. It's a terrible conversational habit, but there is a reason. One example is that different church denominations sponsor different things: Methodists have a lot of hospitals, Presbyterian churches I know have some charities and preschools, and the UCC does alot of social justice stuff. They often are so similar, in fact, that those three and even some Lutheran groups share theology schools and human resources with each other.
The problem comes when the independent churches aren't aware of Charismatic Movement tendencies, where limitations of vocabulary and vernacular loses the distinction between healing by God vs being heal by going to God. In essence, the churches need money, and the easiest way to get money is to sell God as a solution. The truth of the matter is that pastorship is a job just like any other profession. However, it is the one proffession where you either accept the low pay, or move the church in a way that can increase pay.
So in a way, the use of the general statement "the church" applies because most churches easily understand the danger of prosperity gospel, but don't realize that prioritizing higher membership is actually along the similar vein.
"Do you want to avoid hell? Are you struggling in life? Never fear! Christianity is here to solve your problems!"
vs
"I have pain, I had other pains but they were healed because I'm moving to God. I may even have new pains in the future, but it doesn't erase the healing I've experienced because of my journey. We all belong to God, so I would appreciate it of you would join me. Perhaps we'll find remedies to your own pains along the way"
I really appreciated this video. You made so many great points. I really like the new title also!
God bless!
Good suggestion - in fact I might change it. Thanks.
I find this really interesting. Disagree with so much of what Christians, especially evangelical Christians, believe, but regarding your main premise here re: discipleship v evangelism, I agree.
Love getting interesting small channels. As an Atheist yes targeting what is basically âhypocrisyâ would help you. When I walk into a church and realize that Iâm âbetterâ than many there at following the Bible just because I donât want many of the things labeled as sins itâs pretty jarring.
As a Christian I donât think Iâm better than others at times it feels like I am. I owe my goodness to my creator and to the fact that in Jesus is righteousness. that he was perfect and that he died for me indeed for all of us so we or I can live with Him because in Jesus there is forgiveness of sins and new life free from sin and the fear of death.
credibility is the major issue..
For since, in the wisdom of God, the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save those who believe
Describing cult tactics as something desireable. I really thought I had seen it all until I saw this one...
Vex1669. I donât know what cult tactics you are referencing. However as a Christian I believe God gives me the choice to believe in Him. Rather I respond to Him and believe because of what I see and experience. I am not an Ai robot that is forced to believe agains my will. I disagree with the title of this video, but it sounds like He loves Jesus.
â@@TrustintheSon1 he is talking about groups like the ICC and Jehovah's Witness. Basically, you wind up with a person or group of poeple looking over your shoulder all the time telling you you're doing it wrong.
@@TrustintheSon1 You can truly believe whatever you like. But listen to the video and imagine this was not a christian, but a scientologist talking and you might just see how those "supportive" and "loving" tactics are all about manipulation and control. It's actually creepy that christianity has regressed to this.
can't Jesus call everyone on their mobile devices..more convincing and a lot quicker..amen
Jesus is calling. He is knocking. He is with us. And now you have a response on your phone that declares. He is AliveâŠ
10:00 Jesus saying Father ,Son and Holy spirit could not be correct.The trinity was not formulated until about 300 years later under the direction of Roman Emperor Constantine to sort out a growing problem with theology of the day.
As an atheist, I fully agree. First you have to create the need (in the form of a worldview), then you can exploit that and sell them "the cure". Otherwise people will simply not care at all about what the Bible has to say. So, the sooner you convince them that the world doesn't make sense if the Christian god does not exist, the higher the chances they will end up going to church.
Another important aspect to consider is the target audience. People desperate and emotionally vulnerable are much easier to convince.
If, you're truly a self described atheist,..why in the world would you prescribe one minute of the limited time of your obviously hopeless life watching a video like this?
People comfortable in their beliefs and worldview are generally intellectually and emotionally stable enough to not go randomly acting out the role of "internet troll" in situations like this,.LoL!
This guy isnt asking anyone for money , he's not some hyper theatrical "televangelist" claiming to lay hands on people and heal them, he's not going the "fire and brimstone" route and condemning anyone and everyone he doesnt like to eternal hellfire. He isnt even judging anyone,.LoL!
SO,..one has to ask,..on a purely emotional psychological level, whats YOUR issue here? Whats your intended purpose with your comment?
To witless to be considered "dry irony" ,.your comment is also neither sardonic or sarcastic enough to register as anything meaningful.
Other than, say the obviously caustic need to draw attention to yourself,...Your showing the world that YOU are everything you claim to hate about religious people .
As a Christian, I donât believe it is weak to believe that God loves us. Here is a perceived need. We all die and would be in need of God to help us. Either thatâs true and we all die forever, Or perhaps Jesus really did die so that we could be like Him and live with Him forever. That doesnât sound so unreasonable to me. Then again I also believe God created all of us. So his ability to raise the dead does not sound impossible. If Jesus is right about who He claimed to be, Then we need not fear death because He testified about a love that is stronger than the grave. He said He is the way the truth and the life.
@@TrustintheSon1 The Abrahamic God is said to love you, but he also demands of you a great many things. Christian love is conditional, one might even say transactional. You have been sold the disease of sin, and the cure is supposedly to follow God's rules and thus receive eternal life in heaven. It's the typical con game of any religion, the mythology varies but the carrot and the stick remains the same.
Dystopikachu thanks for your response. I donât think our righteousness comes by our obedience to the law (Godâs rules)- so your incorrect about how righteousness is obtained. Righteousness and eternal life come from a faith a trust and a belief in Jesus, that he simply did what he claimed to do and has done. The faith itself is actually a pure a gift from God. and then, when we receive this faith, which is actually like a gift from God he creates us into a new person we become spiritually alive. So the gospel therefore is about how Jesus who was righteous died for all of humanity to make us Alive in Christ or born again.
In the Old Testament, God saved Noah because of his righteousness. In the New Testament, God had to save us because of our unrighteousness.
""Consistency""
It is evil for a god or for anyone else to force someone into the type of existence that they might hate to exist in.
Anonymouswon-uu5n it sounds like youâre saying to me that God is not real because he would be forcing people to exist in conditions that they do not want to be in. Or that God is real but he is evil because he forces people to exist in conditions that they would not want to be in. What I think you donât realize is that God is good, but that would be impossible for anyone to see if they did not understand, and know the words of Jesus Christ. And that Jesus Christ with the intent and ability, died to eliminate suffering forever. But to those who would steal kill and destroy⊠for no good reason, then yes they will be in a place that they donât want to be in âforever â and Yes God is Good.
@@TrustintheSon1 I am not convinced that a god exists, but if a god exists then god is evil because it is evil for a god or for anyone else to force someone into the type of existence that they might hate to exist in.
@@TrustintheSon1 it's evil to take the risk on someone elses behalf to force them into the type of existence that they might hate to exist in. And if they don't ever exist then that's not bad because they can't be harmed if they don't exist.
You are in an inconsistent place because you say, IF God exists he would be evil. And you also say it would be better not to exist, because then nothing good, nor bad could happen. You would call it nothing but then when confronted by it, you call it evil. You use a standard of good and bad but it looks like you do not apply the same standard to yourself. If you did, you might really hear the words of Jesus. I have confidence and faith and assurance that not only is God good and faithful to his promises, but that he loves everyone of us enough to take on a responsibility for us to feel our pain to feel our suffering, whatever evils have fallen us⊠and they have hurt us. and it hurts bad. them Christ knows and heâs a God of love justice, and even mercy. He does better even now to completely take suffering awayâŠfrom the deaf to make them hear to the blind to make them see to the sick to bring them health. an even to raise the dead who have died to life again that is what Jesus did on earth and itâs what he does today.
@@TrustintheSon1 you have faith in things that aren't proven to be true or real. And if a god exists then god does not take away people's suffering because there are still blind and deaf people, there are still people that are all crippled up and extremely ill, there are still people that suffer horribly because they're homeless, etc, etc, etc. Sorry, but you don't have a clue.
Thank you, Phil. I couldn't agree more, though don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
10:25 When did Jews get red hair and beards from?..maybe he is Scandinavian ?
If Jesus asked his apostles to teach all nations what he tought them, well he tought them the Torah and the Evangil. That is not what the greco roman christianity is today.
"I don't think it's possible to underestimate just how little people know about Jesus and the gospel"
I don't think that says what you think it says.
Indeed.
About Jesus: No testimony from an eyewitness, no mention from contemporary historians, no direct evidence of his existence, literally everything known about his life is circumstantial and hearsay.
About the gospels: It is not known who wrote them; they are anonymous texts, written in third person, generations after Jesus's death and in a different language from the one he and his disciples spoke. In a time when a minuscule percentage of the population could write in their own language. The titles they now carry were given to them in the second half of the second century by people who didn't know better.
@@vejeke I can't say I disagree with you, but I was just referring to the grammatical logic.
He wants to say people don't know all that much about Jesus/gospel, but in that case it's very easily possible to underestimate how little people know.
It's the triple negatives that throw us off.
Vejeke⊠the gospels are four separate eyewitness accounts of Jesus. Josephus was a historical non-Christian reference of Jesusâs life.
@@TrustintheSon1 The gospels are not eyewitness accounts and are certainly not independent of each other. Josephus was not even born when Jesus was already dead.
Don't take my word for it, go and check it out for yourself.
@@TrustintheSon1 You don't want to check it out, don't you?
I did!
that's why the church has a Catechism
Is catechism a human input to the Religion of God?
you mean the rcc.
You seem to have missed the point that the Bible doesnât make any
Youâre missing the point of the Bible doesnât make sense and you canât fix it. Jesus execution is not a sacrifice and sacrifice is well described in the Bible is what it is in great detail, Jesus piece of the coming of the actual kingdom to this world when this prediction fails all the other gospel starts to try to kill, wishy-washy, and thatâs not really, awaken prophesied was supposed to come back within the lifetime if itâs disciples, and everything was supposed to be accomplished within this generation To happen so itâs hard to relate to it being something thatâs true report on Richard Dawkins he puts his one to 10 disbelief in God at a six along the lines of leprechauns and gnomes The more you use the Bible, the less people believe in what youâre talking about
Hello Chrisbean9663 Honestly I did not watch this whole video. I think he talks way too much about things that are not as complicated as he makes them sound. However, when I read your comment I felt like you were using an argument that you know as a reason not to believe in Jesus, that basically Jesus said he would come back, and then it all would be accomplished before that generation would pass away. Since Jesus has not returned, and that generation has passed away, therefore, Jesus must not be true. My argument is that Jesus is real that he did die for our sins and was raised to life. Jesus did say, âonly, the father knows the day and time of his return,â I think it is more likely you have miss interpreted the scripture rather than proving that God does not exist based on Matthew24.
Hello trust in the sun, the point Jesus was saying that he would be returning within the lifetime of my name is disciples. He did not do this. He said that heâd be coming soon, and the king was a hand. This didnât happen either people do not know the day he returned, but we knew it wouldnât be within 2000 years. It shouldâve been within at least 40 or so his generation his age Something badly you just have to say well he wasnât the guy a lot of what he did. I thought was valuable think a lot of Christians valued what he taught we have a better world but instead they co-op them into Christian nationalism and a lot of other horrible things that Christians did like people to stake and doing a lot of things that wouldâve pulled his hair out of the wash them do it, I do not know that he was not crucified or he did not believe what he thought was true, but he really did try to make an attempt to make the world better and thatâs pretty good but by extension you sure wouldnât want to go out and write a whole bunch of books about him coming later on afterwards or a big movie and charge Christian a whole bunch of money to see their movies make policy on what they thought you would want to do and basically all youâre looking at stories are written about Jesus not a blow by blow detailed report of what he did if you read all the gospels, youâll notice how it just keeps bumping them up and do higher and higher powers with each one the fishtail just keeps getting bigger and bigger. Use that to get your vote your labor and your money and Jesus if he existed or is capable would come right down here and paddle the butt of anybody to try to do that and God would definitely have a serious issue with that but no.
Well, it sounds like youâre saying Christ did live, but that he isnât who he claimed to be or that as history has gone on he has been elevated and puffed up into something that he was not. That he did his best but ultimately he died a meaningless death. At this point Jesus Christ said he was the only begotten Son of God, that he came from heaven and existed before Abraham was born, and that Jesus is uniquely born of God. These claims are in the gospels. His words are recorded. He has authority over death and sickness. What I do have is a belief that Jesus chose to die although he had done nothing wrong, but yes, that sin was as serious, and as evil and mortally corrupted that Jesus, (the lamb of God) his wounds purchased my healing and that death was necessary, and that death was the punishment, a good God has ascribed to sin, but that when Jesus died, who is without sin, who became sin for us sinners that we might become his righteousness, I think thereâs something very strong about that claim and that whoever would believe in him would live forever without pain without suffering, so yes, I believe Jesus died to eliminate suffering forever. I do believe Jesus did more than this when he died on the cross, because I believe that he was good, obedient and without sin to the point of death. That God vindicated him and he is now seated at the right hand in heaven.