I probably would. While it’s possible you will outgrow the GR faster than would be ideal, I can’t really think of a better choice especially considering the negligible financial loss. I would say go for it. If not the GR86 what else is on the table?
Run E85 and switch to 235 width tires. Your 245's are taking away from the car's performance with the amount of power you have, slowing you down and adding weight. Do a lightweight battery mod and do the E85 fuel mod and the car wakes up. It's a joy, even in the high altitude Colorado roads.
This was a perfect vid for me to watch. In July 2013 I bought the Scion FRS10 and did esthetic and performance mods. Still love the car and it has very low miles. I also have a Kia as a daily driver. I'm considering the new GR86 but wondering if it will be enough of a change. Also thinking of going with a even more practical car so I only need one car. I do live in a climate with winter. Logically the best car for me is the Corolla GR as it has more power and all wheel drive. If I stick with similar price range thinking of the Honda SI or the GR86. If I decide to go for a faster and more expensive car I'm thinking Corolla GR or Honda R or Nissan Z. If any car enthusiast has any comments or feedback let me know! Save the manuals!
Honestly the previous generation is still a solid car to get especially 15+ model yr. The powerband the torque dip was annoying. I think folks were expecting K20 Inline 4 type of screamer on this engine. Other than that great starter rwd car for everyone.
It's a good starter car, but that's the same with a lot of cars. to make the car more then decent you HAD to mod it. The second gen is a great car, mods make it even better, but it's the first time you can leave the car completely stock and it's still quality. The second gen is worse the upgrade, especially with trade-in and used resale prices being higher then ever before. Your used frs could be 14k towards a 28k new car (if you can find one for msrp). It really stands head and shoulders above it's competitors the only comparative car for the price, handling wise is the miata. That's not exactly a fair comparison since it has virtually no trunk room, passenger space and the cabin itself is more cramped then the 86, so a lot of compromises especially as a daily. don't get me wrong I love the miata but it's a very different car.
Just did a back to back drive with a 2015 FRS and a 2022 BRZ Limited. I wouldn’t upgrade if you have the prior gen and it’s still in decent condition. I think the hype about the engine change is overrated. You feel a slight bump in power but nothing dramatic. Initial brake bite feels improved. Manual is more forgiving but feels sloppier and less mechanical going into gear. Tech and creature comfort is improved. If you have the prior generation, I’d just upgrade to Michelin Pilot Sport 4s tires and better brake pads and call it a day.
Currently own a 2013 FRS. The new GR86 is nice, but not nice enough for me to trade in (and take on a new car payment). Will definitely entertain the idea of getting one used in a few years.
If your street driving with the occasional spirited driving, none of those issues are actually issues. Most GR86/GT86/BRZ/FRS owners don't actually track their car seriously. They might do a track day or two but very very few actually track their car seriously. But if you ARE tracking the car, that's a different story. You're likely going to mod the car anyways because the GR86/GT86/BRZ/FRS is still a street car from the factory so that rev-hang, (small)torque dip and steering responsiveness is all going to be addressed to your own liking.
As a 1st gen owner (Aug 2012), what you are telling me is that the 86 finally has the power that it deserved in the first place. Everything else was just fine, don't fix what ain't broke. My modifications are: K&N filter, TRD pads with Michelin PSS and a "Tail of the Dragon" sticker. My final thoughts, I'm sticking with 1st gen FRS as the 2nd gen is heavier with somewhat less feedback. I haven't driven the next gen at this point in time, but not considering MPG those performance numbers are achievable by the FA20 (or pretty darn close). I love driving my FRS up at BIR, where else can I hit 115 legally. Looking forward to Road America and Blackhawk Farms. I would like to know what road you were on as I will be in the Colorado Springs area in the coming weeks.
This was near Vegas. The new gen is less than 50lb weight difference. I don’t think the power difference is easily achievable by tuning gen 1 unless you go FI. Even with headers + tune it’s not close. Perhaps with E85 it would be significantly closer
I'm a gen 1 owner as well (mine is supercharged with e85) and was fortunate enough to get a ride in the gen 2 and I have to say, the new one felt very nice. The new one got rid of most of the torque dip and pulls very nicely. Also, gen 1 made about 160 wheel hp while the gen 2 has been making roughly 200 to 215 wheel hp, which is a significant increase. If I haven't boosted mine, I would have definitely been looking to trade for the newer one Also, I believe there's a video on here somewhere where the gen 2 kept up with a gen 1 that had an Edelbrock supercharger until they hit the higher rpm, which is very impressive
Makes me laugh when people say this isn't a quick car now. It's the pretty much the same as a 968 club sport and i never felt that was slow all the way back in 93..and I've had some quick cars over the years. Straight roads for fast cars, corners for fast drivers. Ive tracked my 19 brz and if you know what you're doing this car can beat a lot more powerful machinery in the bends so disagree this isn't a worthy upgrade..
hi, i like this compared between the old gen and the new, however i still want to get the older generation of the brz/frs; do you think is a good idea to get one in right now (car price is crazy) and also worry about the maintenance, people said that the 13 brz/ frs have more problem is that true?
I tried to buy a used 2013 FRS 2 weeks ago for 17000 CAD, the dealer wouldn't even knock $100 off their advertised price, shit is absolutely crazy. I'm glad I walked away though, I won't have to think about potentially expensive repairs later down the line.
The first generation is a jewel. Undestructable. So reliable. You can race, drift and even slide it into ponds of water. Never let me down. A true force of engineering since 2013.
My previous 2014 brz, I tracked it stock exhaust which sounded fine but of course added exhaust afterwards so not sure if the fake engine sound is a need
my 2018 gt86 was traded in for a 2022 gr86 and the car payment was only $10k or $386 for 3 yrs (so if you look at it its like getting a supercharger modded with warranty) and i kept my original mods except taillights
The short answer is no. The old gen is great as it is. People will want to upgrade the engine for performance regardless of which model, but if you get an old gen and put an LS in there, it would have more power than you'll ever need for almost the same price as the new gen. It's a no brainer.
Putting an ls in the car would make the car nose heavy and throw off the balance of the car. Plus an ls swap costs about 20 grand if you’re using good parts not including the car. 28 grand for a brand new front midship rear drive sports car is a hell of a bargain that you can’t find anywhere else and all the upgrades from the previous generation makes it an even sweeter deal
@@Dragon228833 are you stupid? LS weighs 460 while a fa20 weighs 480. A 2014 frs that you can buy for 10-15k and spend 20k on LS swap is still cheaper than a 36k-42k new 86 today.
I'm kinda on the fence between the new car and the GR corrolla. Problem of course being that I'd have no car if I trade in my 18 brz so I'm probably gonna get a shitbox this summer and wait
I feel like if you already own a low mileage 17+ brz/86 and it’s already paid off or almost paid off it better to just add a turbo to your car an call it a day,it will be cheaper over all and more fun then getting the new one
Personally, im okay with either. The "fake" isnt a really good reason to hate the pumped in noises. Having a preference for it off is okay though. If you know what your doing, you can actually mod the sound coming from the speaker to create a custom sound to your preference. It could be a big help when your on the track with a helmet on. Or you can mod it to make it easier to hear your engine at different RPMs. I see it similar to adding a shift light to your car when you already have a working tachometer. Its not needed, but it can actually be useful.
“Grow out of the car after a few sessions” If you feel that way then don’t even look at this thing or any car where you feel that way and just get what you want. I feel like people with that mentality don’t even try to push the limits of their driving or the machine and just throw it away like they have ADD. There’s a lot of potential with these, that if you’re invested can make a lot out of this platform.
What do you guys think. Would you upgrade from a FRS to a GR86? Let me know below!
I probably would. While it’s possible you will outgrow the GR faster than would be ideal, I can’t really think of a better choice especially considering the negligible financial loss. I would say go for it.
If not the GR86 what else is on the table?
Run E85 and switch to 235 width tires. Your 245's are taking away from the car's performance with the amount of power you have, slowing you down and adding weight. Do a lightweight battery mod and do the E85 fuel mod and the car wakes up. It's a joy, even in the high altitude Colorado roads.
This was a perfect vid for me to watch. In July 2013 I bought the Scion FRS10 and did esthetic and performance mods. Still love the car and it has very low miles. I also have a Kia as a daily driver. I'm considering the new GR86 but wondering if it will be enough of a change. Also thinking of going with a even more practical car so I only need one car. I do live in a climate with winter. Logically the best car for me is the Corolla GR as it has more power and all wheel drive. If I stick with similar price range thinking of the Honda SI or the GR86. If I decide to go for a faster and more expensive car I'm thinking Corolla GR or Honda R or Nissan Z. If any car enthusiast has any comments or feedback let me know! Save the manuals!
I’d just put the FA24 in the first Gen and be good to go :)
My '13 frs caught fire after the battery tiedown got loose and touched the positive terminal, so I'm super eager to get into one of the new twins.
Honestly the previous generation is still a solid car to get especially 15+ model yr. The powerband the torque dip was annoying. I think folks were expecting K20 Inline 4 type of screamer on this engine. Other than that great starter rwd car for everyone.
It's a good starter car, but that's the same with a lot of cars. to make the car more then decent you HAD to mod it. The second gen is a great car, mods make it even better, but it's the first time you can leave the car completely stock and it's still quality. The second gen is worse the upgrade, especially with trade-in and used resale prices being higher then ever before. Your used frs could be 14k towards a 28k new car (if you can find one for msrp).
It really stands head and shoulders above it's competitors the only comparative car for the price, handling wise is the miata. That's not exactly a fair comparison since it has virtually no trunk room, passenger space and the cabin itself is more cramped then the 86, so a lot of compromises especially as a daily. don't get me wrong I love the miata but it's a very different car.
Just did a back to back drive with a 2015 FRS and a 2022 BRZ Limited. I wouldn’t upgrade if you have the prior gen and it’s still in decent condition. I think the hype about the engine change is overrated. You feel a slight bump in power but nothing dramatic. Initial brake bite feels improved. Manual is more forgiving but feels sloppier and less mechanical going into gear. Tech and creature comfort is improved. If you have the prior generation, I’d just upgrade to Michelin Pilot Sport 4s tires and better brake pads and call it a day.
@@amrocko Forester OEM oil cooler, header & Tune and you are at same power of new gen... agreed with you, overrated
This has been the video I’ve been waiting for
I bought the gr86 in black. I love it! Only complaint I have is my elbow bumping the center console button and opening it while driving lol
Currently own a 2013 FRS. The new GR86 is nice, but not nice enough for me to trade in (and take on a new car payment). Will definitely entertain the idea of getting one used in a few years.
You crazy id trade that in yesterday
I had a 15 FRS and that was one that got a suspension tweak felt more balanced like the ZC6 BRZ :) the 13/14 FRS’s were more tail happy stock wise
I looove the tail happiness :)
@@jubbalandcars me too! I love my 2014 frs still!
Great comparison video, the new GR86 is dope but I love my 2013 way to much to change.
I just really like the bumpers on the old gen lol.
The gr86 is the most fun sports car on sale today. Shame about the rtv and oil pressure problem
Lot of salty FRS owners. The new gr86/brz is objectively better. It's just whether you're willing to pay for it, that is the question.
For something that retains part of the TQ dip, has a poorer steering response, rev hang, and a questionable rear that’s a presumptive “objective” haha
If your street driving with the occasional spirited driving, none of those issues are actually issues. Most GR86/GT86/BRZ/FRS owners don't actually track their car seriously. They might do a track day or two but very very few actually track their car seriously.
But if you ARE tracking the car, that's a different story. You're likely going to mod the car anyways because the GR86/GT86/BRZ/FRS is still a street car from the factory so that rev-hang, (small)torque dip and steering responsiveness is all going to be addressed to your own liking.
I think it’s a better car for sure but I like the frs style a lot more
As a 1st gen owner (Aug 2012), what you are telling me is that the 86 finally has the power that it deserved in the first place. Everything else was just fine, don't fix what ain't broke.
My modifications are: K&N filter, TRD pads with Michelin PSS and a "Tail of the Dragon" sticker. My final thoughts, I'm sticking with 1st gen FRS as the 2nd gen is heavier with somewhat less feedback. I haven't driven the next gen at this point in time, but not considering MPG those performance numbers are achievable by the FA20 (or pretty darn close).
I love driving my FRS up at BIR, where else can I hit 115 legally. Looking forward to Road America and Blackhawk Farms.
I would like to know what road you were on as I will be in the Colorado Springs area in the coming weeks.
This was near Vegas. The new gen is less than 50lb weight difference. I don’t think the power difference is easily achievable by tuning gen 1 unless you go FI. Even with headers + tune it’s not close. Perhaps with E85 it would be significantly closer
I'm a gen 1 owner as well (mine is supercharged with e85) and was fortunate enough to get a ride in the gen 2 and I have to say, the new one felt very nice. The new one got rid of most of the torque dip and pulls very nicely. Also, gen 1 made about 160 wheel hp while the gen 2 has been making roughly 200 to 215 wheel hp, which is a significant increase.
If I haven't boosted mine, I would have definitely been looking to trade for the newer one
Also, I believe there's a video on here somewhere where the gen 2 kept up with a gen 1 that had an Edelbrock supercharger until they hit the higher rpm, which is very impressive
You're good at this. Wish you success with the channel
Thank you!
Makes me laugh when people say this isn't a quick car now. It's the pretty much the same as a 968 club sport and i never felt that was slow all the way back in 93..and I've had some quick cars over the years.
Straight roads for fast cars, corners for fast drivers. Ive tracked my 19 brz and if you know what you're doing this car can beat a lot more powerful machinery in the bends so disagree this isn't a worthy upgrade..
It’s a balanced car, not necessarily a fast car.
Also didn’t say it’s not a worthy upgrade. I pose the pros and cons
@@jubbalandcars why isn't 250 whp fast ? So what is a fast car to you?
Also I think it’s silly to compare it to a car from 93. The standard for fast keeps changing based on vehicles on the market.
@@jubbalandcars it's definitely not a slow car 🤣
I didn’t say it’s slow 🤦♂️ just when I thought YT comments couldn’t get any more nonsensical
I'm keeping my 2013 gt86. Why get a second generation when you already have the first one.
hi, i like this compared between the old gen and the new, however i still want to get the older generation of the brz/frs; do you think is a good idea to get one in right now (car price is crazy) and also worry about the maintenance, people said that the 13 brz/ frs have more problem is that true?
13 are more likely to have issues. Mine has been solid. Because of used car prices I would go for the new gen
I tried to buy a used 2013 FRS 2 weeks ago for 17000 CAD, the dealer wouldn't even knock $100 off their advertised price, shit is absolutely crazy. I'm glad I walked away though, I won't have to think about potentially expensive repairs later down the line.
The first generation is a jewel. Undestructable. So reliable. You can race, drift and even slide it into ponds of water. Never let me down. A true force of engineering since 2013.
Closed Captions Show the Engine Sounds as [ Music ] and It couldn't be more right!
Mount Charleston is an awesome drive.
I wish, I wish, I wish a GR 86 would approach my supercharger FRS with 280 hp/180 ft torque. I’ll be looking for ya.
thinking of buying the FRS as my first car, need it to drive to campus, curious about what mods u did to your car? thanks
I'm currently applying to medical school AND looking at getting a BRZ... Jubbal stop following me LMAO
😶
My previous 2014 brz, I tracked it stock exhaust which sounded fine but of course added exhaust afterwards so not sure if the fake engine sound is a need
Just curious, is this mt.Charleston Nevada? It looks very similar, great review either way!
Yes!
If they gave the Cara better motor trans and diff mounts we would have organic noise not needing piped in
How much of a difference does the hp make???
my 2018 gt86 was traded in for a 2022 gr86 and the car payment was only $10k or $386 for 3 yrs (so if you look at it its like getting a supercharger modded with warranty) and i kept my original mods except taillights
How’s the oil pressure and RTV so far?
out of curiosity why blur the gages
"sounds like a garbage disposal" you hurt my feelings internet man lol
I'm curious as to how the sound system compares. I had a '13 and loved it
Where's the 2020s Scion FR-S model?
The short answer is no. The old gen is great as it is. People will want to upgrade the engine for performance regardless of which model, but if you get an old gen and put an LS in there, it would have more power than you'll ever need for almost the same price as the new gen. It's a no brainer.
Putting an ls in the car would make the car nose heavy and throw off the balance of the car. Plus an ls swap costs about 20 grand if you’re using good parts not including the car. 28 grand for a brand new front midship rear drive sports car is a hell of a bargain that you can’t find anywhere else and all the upgrades from the previous generation makes it an even sweeter deal
@@Dragon228833 are you stupid? LS weighs 460 while a fa20 weighs 480. A 2014 frs that you can buy for 10-15k and spend 20k on LS swap is still cheaper than a 36k-42k new 86 today.
K swap would be a lot better, cheaper, more responsive and lighter. And it also looks better in the engine bay.
Gr86
- Rear end
- Interior
Fr-s
- Front end
IMHO
GT86
- Drivetrain
- On the fence about the front end vs FRS
FRS
- Interior
- Exterior overall
I would just get a first gen with headers + tune. I can't stand Subaru engines though.
I'm kinda on the fence between the new car and the GR corrolla. Problem of course being that I'd have no car if I trade in my 18 brz so I'm probably gonna get a shitbox this summer and wait
I feel like if you already own a low mileage 17+ brz/86 and it’s already paid off or almost paid off it better to just add a turbo to your car an call it a day,it will be cheaper over all and more fun then getting the new one
Forced induction comes with temp and reliability issues
@@jubbalandcars it’s pretty reliable if you keep it around 250 whp ,had my 2017 turbo for almost 4 years now no problems. Just beautiful sounds😍
Are you in Colorado? I’m in the Denver area
Vegas
Where is this drive at !
Mt Charleston by Las Vegas
I don't understand people who unplug the exhaust noise that gets pumped into the cabin
Bc its fake and they dont like the arcade'ish noise
Personally, im okay with either. The "fake" isnt a really good reason to hate the pumped in noises. Having a preference for it off is okay though.
If you know what your doing, you can actually mod the sound coming from the speaker to create a custom sound to your preference. It could be a big help when your on the track with a helmet on. Or you can mod it to make it easier to hear your engine at different RPMs.
I see it similar to adding a shift light to your car when you already have a working tachometer. Its not needed, but it can actually be useful.
“Grow out of the car after a few sessions”
If you feel that way then don’t even look at this thing or any car where you feel that way and just get what you want. I feel like people with that mentality don’t even try to push the limits of their driving or the machine and just throw it away like they have ADD. There’s a lot of potential with these, that if you’re invested can make a lot out of this platform.
Lol at the thought I don’t push the limits of my driving or my car
Come to any of my dealers and say you refuse to pay over msrp, we will say HAVE A GREAT DAY SIR 👋
Found the shady car salesman
@@clgmotorsport3021 You found the dealership owner