Did Ancient Romans Have Freedom of Speech?
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Did the ancient Romans have freedom of speech in a similar way to how we modern people have? If so what would be the differences between moderns freedom of speech and ancient freedom of speech? Can we find Roman legal documents that speak about freedom of speech? or could magistrates and authorities silence whomever they wanted?
Let's find out.
The Roman Empire[a] was the post-Republican state of ancient Rome and is generally understood to mean the period and territory ruled by the Romans following Octavian's assumption of sole rule under the Principate in 31 BC. It included territory in Europe, North Africa, and Western Asia, and was ruled by emperors. The fall of the Western Roman Empire in 476 conventionally marks the end of classical antiquity and the beginning of the Middle Ages.
Rome had expanded its rule to most of the Mediterranean and beyond, but became severely destabilized in civil wars and political conflicts which culminated in the victory of Octavian over Mark Antony and Cleopatra at the Battle of Actium in 31 BC and the subsequent conquest of the Ptolemaic Kingdom in Egypt. In 27 BC the Roman Senate granted Octavian overarching power (imperium) and the new title of Augustus, marking his accession as the first Roman emperor of a monarchy with Rome as its sole capital. The vast Roman territories were organized in senatorial and imperial provinces.
#romanempire #ancientrome #freedomofspeech
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FIRST!?
So basically Rome did a version of modern Britain's TV program Question Time.
@metatronyt it appears that while i was watching the video, it just automatically disliked itself I don't know why.😢 But I already fixed it and gave it a like. Sheers man from Puerto Rico.
I respect your videos. I start to like your character. Yet im here for pure history.
🙂
I'd like to see a video of you debunking Mr ImAnIdiotep (mr imhotep).
would be cool if you did a video about the probable race of hannibal since a black guy has been cast to play him
further, would be cool if you did a video of the ancient aryan's. What I've seen recently is I think archeologists basically took the theory of aryan migration theory and changed the name of it to "yamnaya migration." its really the same thing. they once claimed that an ancient tribe called the aryans whom originated in the caucus region of russia/ukraine migrated out of that area, into europe, the middle east and into india. I'd be interested in your opinion of why they now call it the "yamnaya migration" instead of the older "aryan migration." Further, it would be interesting to here your thoughts on whom the ancient aryans were as opposed to whom they claim as the "yamnaya" and the historical impact that either one or both of them had.
what I've read, well, what the older books have said anyways, is that the aryan's influenced the religion and language of all the cultures they came into contact with. for instance, some of the same deities were worshipped across europe, the middle east and india (for instance, dei is basically the same as zeus which is the same as tyr is the same as indra (or dyas pitar) in india. as well as the linguistic impact of these people. what are your thoughts on just how much culture did these ancient people impact in all the area's that they encountered. from for instance, how much of europe, the middle east and india was impacted from these ancient peoples!! also, would be interesting in tying in the various cultures whom either directly called themselves aryans (iran), or "nobles" such as in india. is there any proof of the ancient europeans called themselves something similar? if memory servers, I think some of the greeks had something similar from ancient times?!!
Idk, I just don't see too many videos talking about this ancient tribe so it would be interesting to see your take on them!!
Like in warhammer 40k you are free... to worship the emperor or you are free to die !!!
@ZoomerStasi No.
I accept those terms
First Galactic Empire (in SW legends) is stronger than the Imperium of Man
Bretonnia is stronger than SW republic
@@milton2137
Bretonnia lore and roster sucks :(
The lady being an elf is okay, but her not being her own entity and making her people slave soldiers is garbage.
Totally should be retconned. Even if she's an elf she should be her own goddess, and one who doesn't enslave her people.
There's one aspect you didn't mention which I think it's VERY important (not just because I'm a Jurist) for people nowadays to understand a concept like "Freedom of Speech", and that is the nature of the Law.
When nowadays we think about Freedom of Speech as a right, we do it because we are accustomed to a legal system created post-Saint Augustine. Saint Augustine postulated that there's something called "Natural Law" which is imprinted on humans on account of their humanity. That is to say, humans have certain rights that are inalienable from their condition of being human and that don't require any for of authority (like the State) to recognise them for them to exist. Freedom of Speech falls within those "natural rights".
In Rome, however, they did NOT use the concepts of "natural law". They were what we call "positivists" which means that unless there was a Law expressly granting someone a right, that right didn't exist.
Knowing that allows us to, therefore, infer that Rome MUST have had laws granting citizens at least a certain concept of "Freedom of Speech" which could then be limited and removed.
'cause in the post-Augustine Era (which extended from the rise of the Catholic Church up until today), things like Freedom of Speech remain in the domain of "natural rights" that can not be simply "removed" in the same way that Romans could do it.
Thank you for saying that. I'm glad someone pointed that out and from who and where the concept of "natural rights" originated from
It's true that our modern concepts are hugely christianized, however Rome came close....but it wasn't consistent over the existence of it
What was the laws of 'Lesbos' like?
A shame those poor pagans and witches didn’t get to experience natural rights for too long.
Romans did believe in a certain type of Natural Law, but it was more in the realm of the Divine.
Modern governments have an access to information that would be unthinkable to ancient or medieval rulers, as Orwell said, so their ability of controlling the people is much higher than centuries ago.
Keep in mind that speech is a natural right, that isn't given but can be restricted. Your level of freedom of speech thus depends on the government's (or other powers) ability and willingness to restrict it.
and your willingness to conform to such restrictions.
@@windhelmguard5295 sure but by "freedom of speech" I meant that the secret police wouldn't knock on your door.
Well said
What the hell is natural right? Addition: looked it up. It is made up idea.
@@VK-sz4it Right, because human beings are made up.
Wow! This is the first video of yours I've seen. A friend recommended you. I REALLY enjoyed it!! I'm a 70 yo lady from Mississippi. I had only ONE great professor of world history. You remind me of him. Loved the video! Keep it going, please!!!
Thank you very much madame. I appreciate your kind words. Welcome to the community
When I think of ancient Rome, I don't think their rights and freedom were quite as immutable as they usually are in modern society. I just remember all those stories about angry mobs murdering people they didn't like (like what happened to Tiberius Gracchus) or tyrannical leaders killing outspoken politicians (like Cicero)
The Poets and Painters.
Stuff like this is still common in certain very religious countries.
I think I read somewhere that said Carthage actually had more freedom than Rome did.
@@wisdomleader85 makes sense, carthage was more trade and merchant oriented, those types of states tend to be more democratic.
Most of us would not have survived the trails of ancient life, especially those who fetish about it the most.
I'm more interested in how much freedom they had in the Classical Period vs Mediaeval Period.
In my own research I've found at least with the Medieval period it depends when and where you're talking about. In general though, Kings in the early Middle Ages were considered the first among equals. It would be expected his high council and the nobles of his Realm would have a say in important decisions such as going to war, taxes, feudal contracts even marriages and alliances. However a commoner couldn't just stroll up to the King or his family in public and say to his face and say he sucks. Depending on the ruler, that could get you fined, lashed, or killed.
Yes, I would like more content like this. It can help stamp out 'presentism' if one knows how things were back then.
"To learn who rules over you simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize" - Voltaire
jews
good quote but voltaire was gay
not made by Voltaire but it's right
@@genesisSOCcurrent atmosphere suggests otherwise lol
@@King.Leonidas I found it attributed to Voltaire, perhaps I need to look further into this. 🕚🕚..oops Kevin Strom a white nationalist is the author of this quote, perhaps when people saw where this actually came from, they changed it to Voltaire to hide its origin. I shall delete it from memory.
Freedom of speech in ancient Rome
Basically don't say anything bad about Rome don't associate yourself with another country and call itself greater than rome.
A lot of Romans were Greece fanboys.
@@fattiger6957 shhhhh shhhhh don't say that out loud people will call you a heretic
Around Veteran's Day, I saw a documentary on PBS called To Be of Service, about the service dogs who help vets with their PTSD. And in the doc, there was the reappearing image of a partially damaged Roman bronze, called Warrior. So, my video suggestion is on how the Ancient and Medieval warriors dealt with their PTSD.
Never would have thought of that-great idea!
Yes, this is an interesting topic, please continue. It's important to illuminate how rights in the past functioned when compared with today. Perspective is a good learning experience.
BTW, I have one of those Rings of The Noble One in silver and it is just as high quality as shown!
I would like to see more freedoms related content, I would also be curious about how Greece and Egypt were at the time. China (pre mao) would be great too. Lots of content to make 😅
Greece had freedom of speech probably similiar to Rome. I mean people like Socrates said very controversial stuff and at points question the leaders. Don't know anything about Egypt. Probably not many restrictions.
You also can't say pre mao. There were like 50 dynasties with unique policies before mao
Rome had periodic episodes of riots and civil strife.
@@ordinaryratSocrates was killed because of it, bad example
@@Dario-uj6qo Poisened by the public which is crucial, not poisened by a government guy
@@ordinaryrat I don't think it makes it different
I'll put my voice in for a video on "Freedom of Religion" in Ancient Rome, because I think it has an important role in understanding the place of Judaism and early Christianity in the late Republic and early Empire, which is too often only spoken of in regards to Bible stories or other Christian narratives, rather than the perspectives of the not-yet-Christian Romans themselves.
place for jews was to play with the lions and entertain the people
I agree that would be a good one.
Yes!
If you have interest, look up a video from *Voices from the past* channel. There is a video on Celsus and his views on the Christians.
Limited. Yes, a Hellenized Egyptian was free to worship Isis in Rome, at a home altar, but freely converting people to a new cult deprived the old, native cults of worshipers, and was banned. (Socrates, anyone?)
No, you weren't required to worship the Roman gods, but you were required to offer respect to "Roman Zeus." A pinch of incense at an altar would do it.
That was the hang-up over the Jews and Christians; they would not offer the pinch of incense.
In Australia there is no mention of a legally protected right for the citizen of freedom of speech either. It is something we expect to be able to do. Some idiots actually think it is legally protected in Australia, I call them idiots as they are basing this off the US's bill of rights not something we have here.
It's not in the Constitution but the High Court has upheld the concept. A lot of Aussies seem to get confused by imagining that American laws apply to them, and a lot of Americans also think that their laws are universal.
Yeah, it's by definition taken for granted. But I don't think that it means we should not write it down LOL. My favorite part is when other Aussies bring up the constitution assuming its like the US one. Which for anyone wondering it's not. Imagine if you have a handful of governors and they have to put together a new nation and all want to keep their jobs, and smoko is in like 10 minutes.
What would the world be if no Americans thought their rights were universal and God given?
If Australians want to borrow my cocked hat and musket, we understand.
It's about to be gone.
The Labor Party (major leftwing party) is pushing a "misinformation" bill because they are sour that they lost our recent referendum (vote to change the constitution).
We had a case in Canada recently where the accused was blabbing on about his first amendment rights (and refusing to have a lawyer, of course). The judge was not particularly amused.
Se posso chiedere, per un prossimo video, si potrebbe parlare del Mos Maiorum?
Dalla sua storia all'insieme dei concetti che riuniva ed al suo significato nella società Romana fino al suo ruolo nella creazione sia della giurisdiprudenza mlderna che nella formazione della morale moderna.
Sarebbe un argomento interessante da affrontare.
This just makes me glad we live in times where we can clown on politicians and high society members that act like clowns as much as we please.
Politicians are marionettes who are out there for the very purpose of people clowning on them. Their intended role is to divert attention from people who are actually in character, people who you are not allowed to clown on and criticize. Most people who are actually in charge are not very famous and they rule by very covert means. People who openly criticized the right people did not go well. To learn who rules over you, first you need to find out who you are not allowed to criticize. The rulers have not changed much from the ancient days, they are just much more covert and cunning instead of being open.
uhh you cant fully
@@mystictomato9466 nazi whistleblow 😅
@@henkhenkste6076
guess where you can get 7 years jail for holding a full blank paper
Yes, this is something I would like to hear more about. Specifics of Roman governance would be great. I'd also love to hear some examples of the "impossibilium nulla obligatio" defense if you're able to enlighten on that. After reading that it existed in one of those Barnes and Noble giant books of shallow information, I have been tempted to repeatedly run a particular stop sign to make that defense because on the very same post, right below, it states "no stopping, standing, or parking." I can't possibly both stop and not stop.
Oh I LOVED this video!! Yes please do more content like this. It’s fascinating to hear exactly HOW life was different in past eras and different cultures. What was *their* norm as opposed to ours now. Five stars!!
I don't think any society ever has complete freedom of speech. It's a great abstract concept with the emphasis on abstract. In reality there is always a number of topics/subjects a given group avoids talking about, sometimes without even consiously realising it.
Obviously. But it would still be wrong to equivocate North Korea and the United States.
Rome, as far as I can tell, didn't grant freedom of speech as a right, but it kinda sorta tolerated it to the extent that the Romans didn't send the secret police to your house unless you made a ruckus. Basically, you could question stuff in private among a small group of family or friends, but don't go around broadcasting your criticism to large groups of people (not even in your own home).
Very detailed and informative. I need more like this, brother.
Definitely more videos please. Love this intellectual discourse of history :)
Great video, please do more of these.
This was super interesting. Thank you for making it.
I loved this video! I would love to hear more like this!
This is a great and enlightening video. I'd love to hear more about how Roman legal and political structures were!
The history of human rights as we understand them is a fascinating study in itself. I'm sure history is replete with ups and downs of all of them. Freedoms in the citizenry is after all a burr in the saddle of any government.
Modern society is the biggest experiment of individual self-affirmation ever made - Alessandro Barbero
As always an excellent & informative video. Yes there are of us who’d like to see more on the topic.
This was a wonderful topic, please more!
Very enjoyable video sir, I did indeed enjoy it and would enjoy watching a vid on the Romans attitudes towards the so-called Pagan sects and how it may have changed from Republican to Imperial Rome.
I am interested in freedom of Religion. Thanks for your videos they are interesting. ❤
Greetings, sire. A great video, with the points addressed possessing relevancy and sound sense. The structure is also superb. Really interested in the following videos of the series. Thanks!
I really enjoyed that rabbit hole. More please!! 😘
Very interesting video. I wonder how would they go about regaining their right to free speech or if once you lose it that you can't get it back. Almost analogous to the social credit score.
You can get it back. It's called blood and iron.
In my opinion, Romans during the Republic, had a measure of Freedom of Speech. Of course, there were social repercussions if the "wrong things" were said. I think this freedom of speech was severely curtailed during the Principate and even more so during the Dominate. This freedom of speech during Antiquity is quite different from that which is Constitutionally protected today. However, even today, there are social repercussions for saying unpopular things. Just look at "cancel culture" today. I believe this is one of the most important issues facing us today.
There was always an outlet though, in the form of Rome's famous graffiti. Vox populi could be quite deafening, for certain Roman leaders, going by what we've seen scrawled onto the walls of building in many cities.
If you have to qualify freedom of speech by adding 'a measure' to the concept then it's less confusing to admit they didn't have freedom speech but it wasn't a 1984 scenario either.
Yeah, freedom of speech is a very fragile thing.
Sure, today I won't be sent to prison or into a gulag if I say the wrong thing (well, most of the time). But if your social standing gets destroyed, if your economic basis gets destroyed, if you loose your job - well, that's more than enough to shut people up.
You don't need to kill somebody to threaten him into silence. It is enough to ruin his life.
So in essence, we have NO freedom of speech today.
Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequence.
@@muntuku Great, then Jews had freedom of religion in the Third Reich too.
There was no law that forbid you to be Jew.
Sure, you were killed - but hey, freedom of religion doesn't mean freedom from consequences, according to you.
If you do not have freedom of consequences, you do not have freedom of anything.
How pathetic that there are always some idiots you do not grasp this truth.
Thank You very much for this new video !! 😊 👍🏻
Make more like this please, I really enjoyed it.
Very interesting. Roman history never fails to intrigue.
I love and deeply admire your work. With respect from Croatia-Europe ❤ God bless you Metatron ❤😊😊😊
Thank you very much
One can learn so much with this channel. Thank you for what you do.
Super cool ring by the way mate, just ordered one, glad to support the channel financially when it means awesome items like this!
Legend
I was just wondering your opinion. At what point in the Roman Empire do you think was the best era to live?
(I apologize if you’ve already answered this question in the past.)
Objectively the Flavian and Antonine Dynasties. Takes place after the insanity of the Julio-Claudians, and before the chaos of the Crisis of the Third Century.
Very interesting. So, yes and no, would be the answer. With many variables. I wouldn't mind seeing videos on the other topics you mentioned. Though I think I can guess the answer. Sure. Make this a series. Ancient Roman rights compared to modern rights. Sounds interesting.
Bravo! Great video.
Interesting video. I think further context surrounding other freedoms would be interesting too.
Thanks for this.
Yes, what about freedom of religion? We know that it was not allowed for a while in the case of Christians. When Constantine converted to Christianity (My understanding is that this did not happen at the battle of the Milvian Bridge as many of us were originally taught, because there is no sign of this on his victory column and it appears that he only attempted to blend the persona of Apollo and Jesus into his own persona after some of the soldiers started becoming Christian cultists. I guess, he saw which way the crowd was moving and there were two groups going in two directions, but the directions were not so far apart, so he tried to run out in front of them and say, "Yeah, that's me." in both cases?) I am curious if worshiping the Roman pantheon of Gods then became illegal after Constantine's conversion or were you still able to worship both the Christian God + Jesus and the Roman Pantheon for a while. When did the Roman pantheon start to fade?
Also, what about the Greek Pantheon? Was it basically just relabeled by the Romans? How did the Greeks take that. I mean, they were conquered right? So I imagine that it took a long time for the transformation/relabeling of the Greek Gods or is that not what happened at all? Did some Greeks continue to worship the old Greek pantheon? Were there punishments for that? Could you be stoned to death or whatever for calling Mars Ares after, like some established cut off date or did things just slowly blend generation after generation?
Sorry. Never learned this in History class and I do not have time to read 20 books to find out which one is correct, right now.
I would like to hear more about this as well.
In general, it was very liberal back then.
More or less, nobody cared which deity you prayed to - or if you prayed at all.
Sure, you could not go to the forum and claim that Jupiter did not exists or that you spit on him or stuff like that. But what you did in private, nobody cared (most of the time).
But the point of a polytheism religion is, that there are a lot of gods. That's why nobody takes an issue if you have yet another god.
It was widely accepted, that there were gods that had a different name in other areas of the world.
Monotheism ruined this - because no monotehistic religion that takes itself seriously can accept the idea of another god. Because by definition there is only one god. And if you accept the idea of somebody praying to another god, you automatically admit that either the other person is praying to a false god - or that your own god is false.
And that is - by definition - unacceptable to such religions. These religions can't be tolerant to other believes.
I liked the Book: "Battling the Gods: Atheism in the Ancient World" by Tim Whitmarsh.
@@wedgeantilles8575 Except for the fact, that they were executing Christians and putting them in the colossium to fight lions, etc. right? What about the Carthoginian or Egyptian gods? Ok, to worship them too? Are you sure?
@@manfredconnor3194
Another Christian who acts like because he killed Christians, he was wrong ...screw the kids he had murdered who werent Romans thou
@@wedgeantilles8575 But even so, the gods of other religions could be diminished. The conquest of Egypt led to the Egyptian gods getting redefined as Roman ones, in order to diminish the foreign, and promote the Roman.
I would love to hear more about Roman laws and such.
Great video!
Cheers!
Interesting video. thanks !
On paper, not. In practice, more than almost any country where the government got big lately.
There is always freedom of speech, but not always freedom AFTER speech
Keep making more videos on this subject
Great topic, thanks!
Hello noble ones
👋
Great video, Sir! Makes me appreciate our Constitution and Bill of Rights all the more.........especially the First and Second Amendments!
This is a great video!
This was very interesting. It's not a topic that I see covered very often.
The conclusion was pretty much what I expected, but I didn't know that it was custom for a general to be mocked, as well as celebrated, during a triumph.
Thank you.
thank you
this was interesting, we have something similar in Australia, we have a federal law making it illegal to lie on the record as a federally elected official, that's both state, county & senators. its quite easy to bring the evidence up & challenge someone's statement or challenge them to prove it, fail to concede & lose your position in government. concede & apologise on the record in person
it derives from a anti slander law in the chambers to prevent petty squabbles from going to far but it affectively works as a reality check on the official record.
Trojan, nero, diocletian and galerius: NO!
Wonderful video! I’d love to see more like this!
This was a great video, hope you make more like this!
I once read that a drunkard insulted Julius Caesar, and that instead of feeding him to the lions, he gave him a gift, which was an entire town.
Caesar probably figured that if the guy had the balls to insult him, that guy must be a badass and probably deserved it. They probably became good friends.
@@mattelder1971 Good explanation.
The US has had abuses of free speech, from Woodrow Wilson’s suppression of any disagreement over WWI policy, to the Biden v Missouri social media suppression cases. The issue is how much public support the politicians can raise for their abuse of their opponents.
As a 75 year old German/Appalachian American male from Cincinnati who is mainly Catholic, I consider you to be the best program on CZcams. Keep up the great work!
I would definitely love more content like this!
You Sir, are great relief from political correctness. Truth allows us to properly perceive our true position in history and reality. I was reviewing the moral standards of the Roman soldiers (Auctoritas, Comitas, Clementia, Dignitas, Firmitas, Frugalitas, Gravitas, Honestas, Humanitas, Industria, Pietas, Prudentia, Salubritas, Severitas, Veritas) I was considering that this might be modern day Romanticizing rather than truth. Who else to ask but YOU. Thank you for your time and all you do.
Fun fact. Rome and Greece the founders of "western" civilization are on the eastern hemisphere. Greece is even closer to the east and has some oriental feeling to it.
How?
@@nss309 just go to greece and you will see.
@@nss309 the eastern hemisphere is everything east of Greenwich.
Eastern/Western Hemispheres are an arbitrary designation made by an English astronomer in the mid 1800s to promote the Royal Observatory in Greenwhich, England by having the Prime Meridian pass through it. It's a celebration of British vanity by putting it in the center.
@@Duke_of_Lorraine Keep telling yourself that.
Love this stuff!
Great video as always
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We don't really have freedom of speech today and we also don't truly have the right to bare arms. Throughout all of history freedom has kinda been shat on
Cap
@@Mr.Witness cap?
I Agree, we are literally censured if we show any support of Palestine, it made me lose faith in the humanity
@@Luna-dh6yt do you support Hamas or Palestine because they are separate entities. but why would you support them at all?
I ask because I would like to understand your reasons.
that said the net is full of pro Palestine protests and riotous protesters on the street so can't agree you are being censored
i am neither prevented from baring my arms, nor bearing arms. Neither am I prevented from free speech. If go about with bare arms just now, I may get very cold. freedom to act is in no way freedom from consequence. Freedom is in no way an unlimited license for behavior without cost or effect. It is merely the license to act - within a framework that grants the same to others.
Thank you very much for your video. Very interesting topic to discover :).
A very interesting topic pal, please continue the series
Really happy i found your channel. Always entertaining
I love this type of content and your analysis of religion. Big fan of all your content but these two are my favorites. Thank you
That was quite interesting. I didn't know about the Censor Officials. Thank you
That was very interesting thank you
Muy interesante Metraton. Gran vídeo!
Great video.
Very interesting topic, thank you. And yes please - more like this :)
Good photos. Interesting.
Outstanding video
I love how the answer is not straight forward and we learn so much in the way
Definitely like this type of video, would enjoy seeing more
Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family.
This was a really fascinating video, and I like this kind of content more than the responding to dumb ideas stuff. I like that stuff, too, but it should be more like a treat, in my opinion. This kind of video is the meat.
Very interesting thank you
I'm glad you're back to making videos where I actually get to learn something
(as opposed to videos where you point your finger at people who are talking bs)
Great intro Metatron
Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family
No better way to top off this Thanksgiving than "new upload by metatron" happy Thanksgiving metatron to you and your family! Also, to all the fellow fans!
Yes please, more. Thank you!
Yes, I for one would like you to dive in on the other topics you mentioned at the end.
fantastic material
That was really interesting! 🤔
Thanks! A suggestion for a future video. Roman law was considered in the ancient world to be the most fair and just law. In my reading of ancient history, I've read that many times. May be you could do a video on that?
Thanks! Left a comment in your pinned comments hope you respond
👌🏻👍🏻Great video!
Great Video! I would love to see a video on Freedom of Religiion in the Roman Empire.
Yes, please make more videos like this one!
Very interesting! To be honest I enjoy this type of video a lot more than "debunking".
This is one of your best episodes